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Hated enemies must team up to survive

All in their strongest incarnations. Maul has the Darksaber as well as his saberstaff.

Great fight, I'm going to lean Team 2.

Team 2 seems to have an edge.

I think I'll roll with team one, definitely a very good fight though.

Team 2

I'd go team 1 myself. But everyone knew that anyway, I bet.

Team 1 with difficulty

Team 2

I'd actually lean team one in a good fight. Maul vs Scourge should be interesting, but I am fairly sure Revan could take Dooku.

Real good fight, I have no idea, gonna have to put some thought into this 1.

Not sure how this is close. Scourge has no feats that rival Mauls, and Dooku would roflstomp Revan (who struggled with a mandalorian) into bits.

Its a slaughterhouse if anything for team 2

Originally posted by carthage
Not sure how this is close. Scourge has no feats that rival Mauls, and Dooku would roflstomp Revan (who struggled with a mandalorian) into bits.

Its a slaughterhouse if anything for team 2
watch?v=jRKz82v5JQY

Dooku gives Revan the fight of his life with his Makashi mastery and deadly force powers. Maul should be slightly above Scourge. That being said though Revan will down Maul before Dooku can down Scourge due to their different power sets. Because I think Dooku and Revan is roughly 51/49 adv Revan but Maul and Savage to be 60/40 adv Maul I'd give the win to Dooku and Maul.

The only thing Revan has on Dooku, that I know of, is his mastery of force absorption, which wouldn't come in handy against Dooku considering Dooku can block his own redirected lightning. Revan's best TK ft, that I'm aware of, is his meteor dropping feat. Dooku has dropped a huge balcony that was larger than a star ship with a mere gesture, which I find more impressive than the meteor feat, considering it was attached to a wall, and the sheer size of it would suggest it was made to support a lot of weight, so the force applied in order to break it off and collapse it would be tremendous.

Dropped a balcony the size of a star ship? When the hell was this?

Someone reply to my post. I'm curious as to why most everyone would favor Revan over Dooku in a force contest.

Revan's lightning > Dooku. Killing Rancor's, before his prime plus Force Storm.

Also I'd disagree about TK. Meteor feat >

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Dropped a balcony the size of a star ship? When the hell was this?


In a cutscene of some CW game. Can't link it right now.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
In a cutscene of some CW game. Can't link it right now.
If it's the same game with the Hero of Umbara then I'm not taking it seriously.

_1ieRQ-4BB4

Start onwards.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan's lightning > Dooku. Killing Rancor's, before his prime plus Force Storm.

Also I'd disagree about TK. Meteor feat >


I doubt Revan's lightning is enough to overwhelm Dooku. I think taking out a group of night brothers is just as impressive.

Why do you disagree with the TK?

Because it is no where near as impressive.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I doubt Revan's lightning is enough to overwhelm Dooku. I think taking out a group of night brothers is just as impressive.

Why do you disagree with the TK?

I dunno. What would his defense against a full on Force Storm be I wonder? Also naw, Rancor's a beastly.

Because the meteor feat is better in terms of power and he did it while fighting off the Strike Team.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because it is no where near as impressive.


Well we can go back and forth, but you haven't provided a reason why it's not as impressive.

Revan's Total Telekinetic Energy (High End) = 243.069 teratons. :V

8Pr0LT94QLw&autoplay=1

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because it is no where near as impressive.

As impressive as what?

Do you want some possible spoilers for TOR?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I dunno. What would his defense against a full on Force Storm be I wonder? Also naw, Rancor's a beastly.

Because the meteor feat is better in terms of power and he did it while fighting off the Strike Team.


Block the lightning with his saber, or hands.

If you're basing your opinion on whose feat came more casual, that's fair, which seems to be what you are basing it off of, considering he was fighting off a strike team. But the force required to bring down a meteor wouldn't be as powerful as the force required to collapse the balcony. I would have to see Revan's video again before I can make my own judgment.

I dunno if he could with that many bolts.

Maybe, but Revan pulled down a shitton of meteors not just one.

zrUi46siLLQ

10.20

That's the feat that came to mind at first @Neph, but it's more impressive than I remembered tbh. (Referring to Dooku's thingie)

Regardless of it though, I do agree that Dooku is a superior telekinetic to Revan. Perhaps not necessarily in his raw ability with it, but definitely in his incorporation and precision in it's practice. I hand overall Force Mastery to Revan's favor, though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I dunno if he could with that many bolts.

Maybe, but Revan pulled down a shitton of meteors not just one.

zrUi46siLLQ

10.20


All Dooku would have to do is block the bolts that are directed at him. As you said with Vitiate's storm, it spreads out and wastes some of it's potency. Both HoT and Braga (is that how you spell it?) managed to momentarily push through Vitiate's storm, which I assume is far more potent than Revan's. I'm not sure why Dooku, who is a master practitioner of lightning, and obviously very proficient in defending against it, wouldn't be able to handle Revan's.

Also, it looked like Revan was at a distance from the jedi before pulling them down. It also looked as if he was pulling them down one by one in a very fast pace, rather than pulling more than one at one time. However, I'm not on my laptop, so I'd probably be able to judge better when I get to it. But I can see very clearly that the meteors caused no damage to the surface, and completely turned to dust on impact. Plus, the meteors weren't attached to anything, and didn't look as big as the balcony Dooku pulled down. The ease in which Dooku was capable of breaking off and collapsing the balcony, would suggest that Dooku is capable of a lot more. In fact, almost all of Dooku's TK showings would require a tremendous raw power to pull off, yet for him they all came casually.

Overall force mastery, I'd put Revan ahead of Dooku on account of Revan's implied force knowledge, but he doesn't seem possess more raw power than Dooku, and I've not seen anything to suggest he'd take Dooku in a force contest, let alone all out combat.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Both HoT and Braga (is that how you spell it?) managed to momentarily push through Vitiate's storm, which I assume is far more potent than Revan's. I'm not sure why Dooku, who is a master practitioner of lightning, and obviously very proficient in defending against it, wouldn't be able to handle Revan's.



They were able defend only for a few seconds though and HoT > Dooku

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revans-raw-power-comparison/97193/

Originally posted by Sinious
They were able defend only for a few seconds though and HoT > Dooku


I'm not so sure HoT was greater than Dooku by that point, and I'm not even sure he is that much ahead of Dooku now.

Furthermore, the gap between Dooku and Revan isn't that big, if there is a gap at all. And as I said, Dooku is a master of FL, and obviously knows of more defenses against it that HoT.

@Ant, all you have established in that thread, is that Revan has a lot of raw power, nothing more.

Raw power was the purpose of that thread, hence the thread title and numerous bolded sentences, nothing more, so I'm glad I got the point across. lol

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'm not so sure HoT was greater than Dooku by that point, and I'm not even sure he is that much ahead of Dooku now.

They were and are.

The HoT can tank Vitiate's Lightning, so no. Furthermore, Revan tanked Lightning that is capable of turning people to ash. Dooku has not shown the ability to do either.

@ Sidious 66

During his first confrontation with the Emperor, he probably wasn't that much weaker than his end game.

Still though, my point is that they couldn't take Vitiate's FLS for more than a few seconds and Vitiate wasn't even trying to kill them.

Revan wouldn't be able summon an equally powerful storm but he would definitely cause a lot of trouble for Dooku.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Raw power was the purpose of that thread, hence the thread title and numerous bolded sentences, nothing more, so I'm glad I got the point across. lol


I never disputed Revan's raw power.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
All Dooku would have to do is block the bolts that are directed at him. As you said with Vitiate's storm, it spreads out and wastes some of it's potency. Both HoT and Braga (is that how you spell it?) managed to momentarily push through Vitiate's storm, which I assume is far more potent than Revan's. I'm not sure why Dooku, who is a master practitioner of lightning, and obviously very proficient in defending against it, wouldn't be able to handle Revan's.

Also, it looked like Revan was at a distance from the jedi before pulling them down. It also looked as if he was pulling them down one by one in a very fast pace, rather than pulling more than one at one time. However, I'm not on my laptop, so I'd probably be able to judge better when I get to it. But I can see very clearly that the meteors caused no damage to the surface, and completely turned to dust on impact. Plus, the meteors weren't attached to anything, and didn't look as big as the balcony Dooku pulled down. The ease in which Dooku was capable of breaking off and collapsing the balcony, would suggest that Dooku is capable of a lot more. In fact, almost all of Dooku's TK showings would require a tremendous raw power to pull off, yet for him they all came casually.

Overall force mastery, I'd put Revan ahead of Dooku on account of Revan's implied force knowledge, but he doesn't seem possess more raw power than Dooku, and I've not seen anything to suggest he'd take Dooku in a force contest, let alone all out combat.

Lawl, "master practioner". Dooku's got some of the shittiest lightning of any notable Sith. The HoT and Braga are likely better at defending against lightning than Dooku is. Also I'd think there would be too much lightning just to block with a hand. A lightsaber is a maybe. But I think Revan's lightning would still be difficult for him to handle.

There was only distance because the person making the video put distance between them. He uses the attack even if you're cutting his face off in close range. Either way though, putting and maintaining distance from the Strike Team would still be a point in his favor. Does it matter if its one at a time (which I highly doubt it was)? TK'ing that many huge objects in rapid succession is still an amazing feat. And it doesn't matter if they weren't attached to anything it would still take a ton of force to throw them at the ground that fast and hard. Then causing no damage is obviously just a gameplay mechanic due to no destructible environments, come on. Even if they're not as big, they're actually solid objects while Dooku pulled down a metal framework. So they'd be just as or heavier than it.

No way, in raw power Revan has the advantage. His raw power enabled him to casually absorb Nyriss' lightning. Which is >> anything Dooku's displayed.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
They were and are.

The HoT can tank Vitiate's Lightning, so no. Furthermore, Revan tanked Lightning that is capable of turning people to ash. Dooku has not shown the ability to do either.




1) Based on what other than implications and your opinion?

2) Again, Dooku can block his own redirected lightning, so his feat against Nyriss is irrelevant, and wouldn't come in handy against Dooku, other than not getting hit by Dooku's lightning.

3) Revan had a good showing in one particular technique that requires a lot of raw power. This doesn't suggest he has more raw power than Dooku. In fact, we've seen people who haven't even mastered the ability of force absorption, having more raw power than characters who have. Force absorption is just one ability out of several that requires tremendous raw power. I could make a similar thread regarding some of master Tiin's feats, and his unique ability, and then throw off my opinion that he has more raw power than people who haven't displayed the same showings.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lawl, "master practioner". Dooku's got some of the shittiest lightning of any notable Sith. The HoT and Braga are likely better at defending against lightning than Dooku is. Also I'd think there would be too much lightning just to block with a hand. A lightsaber is a maybe. But I think Revan's lightning would still be difficult for him to handle.

There was only distance because the person making the video put distance between them. He uses the attack even if you're cutting his face off in close range. Either way though, putting and maintaining distance from the Strike Team would still be a point in his favor. Does it matter if its one at a time (which I highly doubt it was)? TK'ing that many huge objects in rapid succession is still an amazing feat. And it doesn't matter if they weren't attached to anything it would still take a ton of force to throw them at the ground that fast and hard. Then causing no damage is obviously just a gameplay mechanic due to no destructible environments, come on. Even if they're not as big, they're actually solid objects while Dooku pulled down a metal framework. So they'd be just as or heavier than it.

No way, in raw power Revan has the advantage. His raw power enabled him to casually absorb Nyriss' lightning. Which is >> anything Dooku's displayed.


Dooku's standard lightning off a nexus is greater than Nyriss' while on one. Knocking Ventress, Anakin and Bulq unconscious is far better than merely knocking the Exile on her ass. Not to mention he took out a group of force sensitive zabraks with lightning. On top of being capable of dividing his standard lightning in to three separate attacks against Ventress and the nightsisters, which suggest that, not only is Dooku's lightning pretty potent, but it shows he is very refined in it's application. In other words, Dooku is a master practitioner of lightning. There you go with lowballing Dooku's lightning. Vitiate's lightning is pretty shitty compared to Palpatine's yet you're in awe of it.

So, basically, all we know regarding that feat, is that Revan brought down meteors? Then I'm not sure how I'm able to make an accurate comparison to Dooku's consistent TK showings.

Considering that most of Dooku's TK feats require tremendous raw power to perform, and the fact those feats all came so casually to him, I'd say he has shown just as much raw power in the force as Revan, but in a different application of it's uses.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
1) Based on what other than implications and your opinion?

Feats. At this point the HoT has already defeated the strongest enforcer in the Empire. Scourge, especially with an amp, is Dooku level if not greater.

How is blocking your own lighting, which has never turned anyone to ash, a greater feat than redirecting Lighting that has?

Revan has already been shown to be a master of many Force techniques, Tutaminis among them. Revan has always been stated to focus mostly on Force mastey. He's learned to use the Force in Balance. He's a stated master of Drain, Lightning, Healing, TK, and Tutaminis, among others. I'm not seeing where it's been shown he only has raw power to draw on and is well below Dooku. Even, Revan has always been shown to do these things in conjunction with raw power. He's above Dooku in showing at least.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan's lightning > Dooku. Killing Rancor's, before his prime plus Force Storm.

Also I'd disagree about TK. Meteor feat >


Meteor feat= n-canon

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Meteor feat= n-canon
It is a scripted event, it is legit/canon/legend/official. Whatever.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Regardless of it though, I do agree that Dooku is a superior telekinetic to Revan. Perhaps not necessarily in his raw ability with it, but definitely in his incorporation and precision in it's practice. I hand overall Force Mastery to Revan's favor, though.
Revan can be very precise with his telekinetic actions:

Veela and the other two survivors scrambled back into the passage near the chamber entrance, ducking out of sight around the corner to regroup. A second later a trio of grenades skittered across the floor, bouncing and rolling to a stop near the base of the sarcophagus. The instant before they detonated, Revan reached out with the Force and hurled the heavy stone lid of the sarcophagus toward the grenades. It acted as a shield, absorbing the worst of the blast before exploding into pebbles and dust. (Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

---

Revan's command of the Force is superior to that of any individual whom Meetra Surik have met and the list includes Vandar Tokare, Darth Traya, Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus. This implies that Revan is vastly superior Force-user then Count Dooku.

It baffles me that discussions involving Revan vs. Dooku tend to expand to several pages. Revan is stronger and superior Force-user then Dooku and can also handle him with his dueling abilities, period.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Meteor feat= n-canon

Naw.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Dooku's standard lightning off a nexus is greater than Nyriss' while on one. Knocking Ventress, Anakin and Bulq unconscious is far better than merely knocking the Exile on her ass. Not to mention he took out a group of force sensitive zabraks with lightning. On top of being capable of dividing his standard lightning in to three separate attacks against Ventress and the nightsisters, which suggest that, not only is Dooku's lightning pretty potent, but it shows he is very refined in it's application. In other words, Dooku is a master practitioner of lightning. There you go with lowballing Dooku's lightning. Vitiate's lightning is pretty shitty compared to Palpatine's yet you're in awe of it.

So, basically, all we know regarding that feat, is that Revan brought down meteors? Then I'm not sure how I'm able to make an accurate comparison to Dooku's consistent TK showings.

Considering that most of Dooku's TK feats require tremendous raw power to perform, and the fact those feats all came so casually to him, I'd say he has shown just as much raw power in the force as Revan, but in a different application of it's uses.

No it isn't. He only knocked a very early CW Ventress out before she had any actual training, big deal. Anakin was weakened dramatically and the effort still made him out of breath. Bulq is a pussy. Beating untrained force sensitives is nothing. I'm lowballing Dooku's lightning because it's power is low. Deal w it.

You could apply some critical reasoning to come to the conclusion. You know, actually try comparing the two.

I would disagree. His TK feats don't require that much raw power. Revan absorbed gigawatts of energy casually. And his meteor feat requires huge amounts of power behind it as well. While I don't take the calculations of the narutoforums seriously, the rough estimate for the amount of power needed to perform Revan's feat is insane. The most power Dooku's feats required was breaking the supports of that metal structure and lifting some rock.

> whines about "lowballing" TOR!characters
> admits to lowballing PT!characters

Comparing Revan to Dooku is silly. Revan and all his feats are non-canon; Dooku wins by default.

It's called being facetious.

Can you believe Legend is arguing that Sidious and Bane are inferior to Darth Thanaton? Insanity, I tells ya.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's called being facetious.

Can you believe Legend is arguing that Sidious and Bane are inferior to Darth Thanaton? Insanity, I tells ya.
Yeah that is pretty ****ing dumb

SIDIOUS 66, I suggest you checkout my Revan Respect Thread for knowledge on the subject.
It seems you don't know much about Revan or his feats at all.

I also don't understand the relevance of bringing up Nyriss's "regular lightning," anyways. What Revan fairly easily blocked was her lightning storm, which as per the book was going to incinerate Scourge and Meetra. Then of course, it also utterly disintegrated herself, when brought to bear.

And deflecting such said storm is confirmed to be a display of his raw power.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
> whines about "lowballing" TOR!characters
> admits to lowballing PT!characters

Comparing Revan to Dooku is silly. Revan and all his feats are non-canon; Dooku wins by default.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Can you believe Legend is arguing that Sidious and Bane are inferior to Darth Thanaton? Insanity, I tells ya.
Will you stop misrepresenting my points? You lost a debate and now you are being bitter and childish about it.

I expect better from you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Naw.



No it isn't. He only knocked a very early CW Ventress out before she had any actual training, big deal. Anakin was weakened dramatically and the effort still made him out of breath. Bulq is a pussy. Beating untrained force sensitives is nothing. I'm lowballing Dooku's lightning because it's power is low. Deal w it.

You could apply some critical reasoning to come to the conclusion. You know, actually try comparing the two.

I would disagree. His TK feats don't require that much raw power. Revan absorbed gigawatts of energy casually. And his meteor feat requires huge amounts of power behind it as well. While I don't take the calculations of the narutoforums seriously, the rough estimate for the amount of power needed to perform Revan's feat is insane. The most power Dooku's feats required was breaking the supports of that metal structure and lifting some rock.


Will get to this point by point later.

Take your time, it's cool.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I also don't understand the relevance of bringing up Nyriss's "regular lightning," anyways. What Revan fairly easily blocked was her lightning storm, which as per the book was going to incinerate Scourge and Meetra. Then of course, it also utterly disintegrated herself, when brought to bear.


I brought it up because Neph likes to lowball PT era characters, and wanks the hell out of TOR characters. I was suggesting that Dooku's lightning isn't weak, and that his standard lightning off a nexus is better than Nyriss' lightning on one. Plus, we've never seen Dooku ramp up his lightning.

Not everything revolves around Revan's absorption feat. And I'm not suggesting that Revan wouldn't be able to absorb Dooku's lightning. Only that it wouldn't allow him to overcome Dooku, considering Dooku can block his own lightning.

I lol'ed.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m96qikFvMa1qlydob.jpg

The only point that was missed was mine.

I also lol'd at the ridiculous assertion that Revan's raw power is on par with Yoda's, and that he would provide a challenge for the likes of Sidious and Yoda. You're laughing at something that can and will be backed up.

Going to go with team 2. Team 1 doesn't have enough of an edge if any in the force department to make up for team 2 superiority in sabers.

Revan's raw power being on par with Yoda's doesn't mean that he'll be a challenge for Yoda or Sidious. No one's made that claim here, actually I think that very point was said not to be the point several times.

He is likely stronger than either in terms of raw power. Even Traya recognized this, Revan is immense

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Revan's raw power being on par with Yoda's doesn't mean that he'll be a challenge for Yoda or Sidious. No one's made that claim here, actually I think that very point was said not to be the point several times.


Revan's raw power isn't on par with Yoda's, though.

Their arguments with Nova on comic vine suggest they believe him to be a challenge for Yoda. Ant knows what I'm talking about. Whether or not the claim was made here is irrelevant. Ant has no room to lol @ my argument, considering Nyriss's standard lightning isn't superior to Dooku's.

I am lol'ing, completely, and rather loudly.
It's honestly like instead of reading the thread, you took a shit on it and then looked toward your shit for knowledge on what the thread said.
Nyriss' lightning doesn't need to be superior to Dooku's off a nexus for Revan's feat to still count. That is completely irrelevant.
Dooku challenged Yoda, though was still firmly under him. Why is Revan different?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I am lol'ing, completely, and rather loudly.
It's honestly like instead of reading the thread, you took a shit on it and then looked toward your shit for knowledge on what the thread said.
Nyriss' lightning doesn't need to be superior to Dooku's off a nexus for Revan's feat to still count. That is completely irrelevant.


Are you so obsessed with Revan's absorption feat that you think every point I make has something to do with it?

I read the thread. You concluded that Revan's raw power was on par with Yoda's based on one good showing in one particular technique that requires a lot of raw power. Yoda beats him in that area, as well as plenty of others.

All you have established in that thread is that Revan has tremendous raw power, which I never disputed. It was a good thread, but your conclusion was exaggerated.

Dooku held is own against a Yoda who wasn't going all out on him. Yoda didn't use the force offensively. We seen what Sidious was capable of doing to Dooku from a distance of light years. Well Yoda is Sidious' equal.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1290449/picard-facepalm-o.gif
Holy shit. I'm wondering if I should even bother replying to you, considering every other member understood the point I made besides you.
Perhaps someone else can try to explain to this guy, because I feel I will get banned for language and insulting if I personally do. Thanks.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No it isn't.


Yes, it is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He only knocked a very early CW Ventress out before she had any actual training, big deal.


She had jedi training, and was self trained for years before becoming Dooku's apprentices. Her talent was enough to impress Dooku, which is why he took her in as his apprentice.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin was weakened dramatically and the effort still made him out of breath.


He's also sent Anakin flying meters, and onto his ass. Anakin >> Meetra.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Bulq is a pussy.


No, Dooku's standard lightning is just that good. Apparently better than Nyriss's nexus-enhanced standard lighting.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Beating untrained force sensitives is nothing.


None of them were untrained.


Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm lowballing Dooku's lightning because it's power is low. Deal w it.


Come to think of it, Dooku's standard lightning is better than Vitiate's. Vitiate has to use prolong uses of FS + an amped attack to take out anyone. Other than that, his standard lightning was easily handled by the blades of Revan and HoT while on a nexus. Yet you place his lightning higher than Palpatine's.




Originally posted by Nephthys
You could apply some critical reasoning to come to the conclusion. You know, actually try comparing the two.


No, I can't. IDK if Revan had downed them with a force attack and then brought those meteors down on them. IDK how it happened. All I know is Revan brought down some meteors because it is a scripted event that occurs within game mechanic material, which is known for exaggerating force usage more so than the mini CW, which is a source you disregard because of that very reason.


Originally posted by Nephthys
I would disagree. His TK feats don't require that much raw power.


In this case, it's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. Dooku's TK feats do require tremendous raw power.

You disagreeing with it, is no different than me disagreeing that water is liquid and turns to ice when frozen.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan absorbed gigawatts of energy casually.


That's nice. Revan has a lot of raw power. Good for him. Never said he didn't.


Originally posted by Nephthys
And his meteor feat requires huge amounts of power behind it as well.


Prove it.


Originally posted by Nephthys
While I don't take the calculations of the narutoforums seriously, the rough estimate for the amount of power needed to perform Revan's feat is insane.


Yeah, I don't either considering they have no way of making such calculations. We have no idea how much those meteors weigh or how solid they are. They cause no damage to the surface, and turned to dirt upon impact with the ground. Although, like you said, it may be because it happens within game mechanic material. Sorry, though, but you can't only accept certain parts of game mechanics that favor you argument, but disregard others based on the fact that it happens within the game's mechanics. Either you accept what we see in the game's mechanics, or you don't.

We know very little about the feat other than he brought down some meteors. Ventress feat of ripping down large chunks from a cave ceiling is just as impressive, yet Dooku has consistently dominated her with TK. Basically, Dooku can dominate a Revan level Telekinetic with his TK (yes, I'm going there).



Originally posted by Nephthys
The most power Dooku's feats required was breaking the supports of that metal structure and lifting some rock.


Supports with enough force to hold possibly well over a ton of weight, considering it's size. Ripping through metal supports is far greater than bringing down some meteors of unknown quantity and quality. Also lifting a dozen of huge obelisks far above his head simultaneously, and holding them there for several seconds would require tremendous raw power and a high level of refinement. Given that these feats were performed very easily by Dooku, would suggest that they aren't even near his limit.

Dooku's TK >>> Revan's. Fact.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Feats. At this point the HoT has already defeated the strongest enforcer in the Empire. Scourge, especially with an amp, is Dooku level if not greater.


Dooku has bested both Anakin and Kenobi at the same time, as well as numerous other skilled duelist who actually have feats and quotes which give context to their abilities.

Furthermore, the notion that Scourge is even on Maul's level has been debunked. All he has to his name is a bunch of stuff that suggests he is powerful and skilled. Nothing too conclusive that would put him on Maul's level let alone Dooku's. The notion is laughable.

So, again, I'll ask you to prove your assertion that HoT was above Dooku. I want more than just your opinion and a bunch of implications that he was powerful. If you're unable to do so by your next post, I'll take it that you can't back up your claim.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
How is blocking your own lighting, which has never turned anyone to ash, a greater feat than redirecting Lighting that has?


And how is absorbing and redirecting Nyriss' lightning an indication that he can take Dooku in a force contest?



Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Revan has already been shown to be a master of many Force techniques, Tutaminis among them. Revan has always been stated to focus mostly on Force mastey. He's learned to use the Force in Balance. He's a stated master of Drain, Lightning, Healing, TK, and Tutaminis, among others. I'm not seeing where it's been shown he only has raw power to draw on and is well below Dooku. Even, Revan has always been shown to do these things in conjunction with raw power. He's above Dooku in showing at least.


I never said that force absorption is the only ability he has that would suggest he has tremendous raw power. I'm merely pointing out that that one good showing in a particular technique does not suggest he has more raw power than Dooku.

Dooku is immune to drain. Regardless, when has Revan used drain mid-combat? Dooku has displayed more raw power in TK than Revan has, so there goes that. Dooku also has healing abilities, along with a bunch of other sith techniques.

All in all, Revan has done absolutely nothing to suggest his power in the force exceeds that of Dooku's. Even if Revan does have more abilities up his sleeve, it's still not an indication of having greater raw power. The best way to compare them, is to compare powers that they're both proficient with, which would be TK and lightning. Dooku seems to hold the advantage in TK, and has actually overpowered other powerful force users with TK alone, whereas don't recall Revan ever casually overpowering other powerful force users with his. Revan might hold an advantage in FL (still arguable, as Dooku has taken out powerful force users with single short bursts of lightning, whereas I don't recall Revan doing the same). However, nothing Revan has done, feat-wise, suggests he is more powerful than Dooku. They seem pretty close, with Dooku holding a very decisive edge in saber combat. Although, since the TOR wanking is getting out of hand, I'll go ahead and say Dooku can dominate Revan with TK, considering he has consistently dominated a Revan level telekinetic, as mentioned above in my response to Neph.

http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/651588504.gif Actually tempted to jump into this debate and save Neph the trouble, since majority of that is utter bullshit.
EDIT: Just skimmed through some of it, totally am jumping into this. *cracks knuckles*

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

Holy shit. I'm wondering if I should even bother replying to you

Probably not if you don't want to continue making a full out of yourself.


Originally posted by DarthAnt66
considering every other member understood the point I made besides you.


I got your point, which had absolutely nothing to do with mine. Again, are you so obsessed with Revan's absorption feat that you think every point I make is about it?

You're a very weird individual.


Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Perhaps someone else can try to explain to this guy, because I feel I will get banned for language and insulting if I personally do. Thanks.


No, go ahead. I'm not one to report people for starting a flame war with me.

Give it your best shot.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/651588504.gif Actually tempted to jump into this debate and save Neph the trouble, since majority of that is utter bullshit.
EDIT: Just skimmed through some of it, totally am jumping into this. *cracks knuckles*


Is it the Ventress > Revan part (which is actually supported) that you're mad about?

Tear into it. Not that I'll actually reply, considering you keep missing a simple point I was trying to make to Neph, which had nothing to do with Revan's absorption feat that you're so obsessed with.

You're not too bright, boy.

All of society is disgraced over your debate with Neph.
A country just began a civil war fearing you might go to it.
I'm not being omniscient, it's just that you are ridiculous.
Hopefully someone else can help you out with the Revan thread.
ATM I'm responding to your response to Neph. Never lol'ed so much.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
All of society is disgraced over your debate with Neph.
A country just began a civil war fearing you might go to it.
I'm not being omniscient, it's just that you are ridiculous.
Hopefully someone else can help you out with the Revan thread.
ATM I'm responding to your response to Neph. Never lol'ed so much.


That's fine.

Also, I made an edit to my last post.

Kewl.
It's rather the fact you are completely uneducated on Revan, yet decide to actually participate in a debate with him, that awes me.

"Dooku's TK >>> Revan's. Fact."
Please not be making the accusations of opinion and representing your as factual thank you.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Kewl.
It's rather the fact you are completely uneducated on Revan, yet decide to actually participate in a debate with him, that awes me.


So educate me.

Also, I keep going back over your insults. I feel as if I'm being verbally attacked by a 4 year-old.

You're so ugly that everyone hates you!!

I'm offended. I love my insults.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I am lol'ing, completely, and rather loudly.
It's honestly like instead of reading the thread, you took a shit on it and then looked toward your shit for knowledge on what the thread said.
Nyriss' lightning doesn't need to be superior to Dooku's off a nexus for Revan's feat to still count. That is completely irrelevant.
Dooku challenged Yoda, though was still firmly under him. Why is Revan different?


Because Yoda didn't use the force offensively once. If Yoda wanted to he could ragdoll Dooku. He's just as bit as capable as Sidious is.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Because Yoda didn't use the force offensively once. If Yoda wanted to he could ragdoll Dooku. He's just as bit as capable as Sidious is.


You're missing his point. Revan's raw power absorbed Nyriss's FS while on a nexus. You're a disgrace to society.

I missed this.

Originally posted by TobaccoRoad
"Dooku's TK >>> Revan's. Fact."
Please not be making the accusations of opinion and representing your as factual thank you.


And you are?

I may or may not agree with it, but I made a case and supported it, which has yet to be debunked. If you're capable of providing a counter argument, then do so.

"and supported it"

Originally posted by TobaccoRoad
"Dooku's TK >>> Revan's. Fact."
Please not be making the accusations of opinion and representing your as factual thank you.

Revan's best feat with TK was blowing open a door made of the same metal Bane ripped off with his bare hands, lol. Dooku has lifted multiple obelisks that weighed tons each, destroyed a balcony and bridge, and ragdolled multiple force users. Revans TK sucks

Awe SIDIOUS, you made a friend.

Revan is too strong

Hopefully I'm saving Neph the trouble:

They aren't even remotely close. Nyriss' lightning is rather comparable to Sidious', not Dooku's. Knocking Bulq unconscious is no where close to being able to turn both Meetra Surik and Scourge to ash.
Hell, knocking Bulq unconscious is no where close to being able to completely rip through a powerful Force barrier, and then going on to turn one of the most powerful Sith of the era to ash.
You are embarrassing yourself suggesting otherwise. The debate you are having already occurred between myself/Neph and Lord Stark on another topic. Concede now if you know what's best for you.
Also, I feel you know nothing about Darth Nyriss. Checkout her respect thread when you have the chance: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/darth-nyriss-respect-thread/95301/


His lightning is "infinitely" more powerful then Nyriss'.


When I read "game mechanics", I think of the abilities your character can display in battle, such as the attack "Thrash". This is not even a attack any character can do, even if they wanted too. It is a part of the actual level itself, rather then being attached to a specific character like other game mechanics are. That is why even if some do not take scripted material as canon, this feat still should be.


Revan performed feats that required more raw power then Dooku has. For his full list of feats, checkout my Revan Respect Thread located in the description.
His meteor and absorption feats are excellent examples, but his "Force in Balance" attack against Vitiate, being able to apparently collapse a building, and ripping a large stone-arch way from the ceiling are also great examples.

Challenge Completed.


8 people just died trying to comprehend the stupidity in this.
How on earth is ripping chunks of a cave better then pouring down meteors? One meteor alone is much larger then Revan itself.
If you gathered everything Ventress ripped, and combined it together, I seriously doubt it would equate to the mass of just one meteor.
They honestly aren't even remotely the same, or can even be considered in the same sentence together.
Also note you are the only member on this forum who thinks Dooku can ragdoll Revan, that should confirm to you that your being ****ing stupid.
Ultimately, Revan is just superior in telekinesis. His feats on Dromaund Kaas and the Foundry are superior to what Dooku has showcased.


That's great? One asteroid alone is half of that. The combined effect of 30ish asteroids far surpasses Dooku's feat.
This is not even yet mentioning that a building is *far* beyond just a ton in weight, yet Revan is confirmed to be able to collapse one.


Erm...the hell? They aren't really even close.
We know how big the meteors are, we saw them via cutscene.
Just a a few alone should be much larger then the metal supports.


How is this better then what Revan has done?
And how does anything suggest Revan cannot replicate this?
Revan has done stuff far more impressive then this.


Similar to like Revan instantly bringing down huge archways and hurling a large sarcophagus lid suggests that this is no where near Revan's limits?
Similarly, being able to do the asteroid feat after 300 years of Vitiate draining him, while also in the middle of combat, also shows that this is not Revan's limitations either?


No one on this forum agrees with you.


PS: I'm not even sure the feat you are referring to with Dooku and the ship is canon. Care to provide proof that it is? Seemingly, Cody and Rex die in it, which doesn't happen in Star Wars lore. The game you are referring to, Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Republic Heroes, has numerous canonical inconsistencies, such as Obi-Wan Kenobi being able to defeat Dooku via telekinesis in a battle that is against T-Canon. If you count Dooku's ship feat, then I guess Kenobi>Dooku in TK. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

If you count Dooku's ship feat, then I guess Kenobi>Dooku in TK.

Good point.

watch?v=7h_wnWlk518

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
watch?v=7h_wnWlk518

I've already addressed this. N-canon.

I'm aware.
Point is, so is Dooku's ship feat then.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm aware.
Point is, so is Dooku's ship feat then.

No it isn't. Dooku's ship feat does not contradict a T-canon source.

So now we are picking and choosing what parts of games are canon and not?
And it totally does, Cody and Rex die in it, lol.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So now we are picking and choosing what parts of games are canon and not?
And it totally does, Cody and Rex die in it, lol.

_1ieRQ-4BB4


No they don't. And yes we are. Its how these things work. Scenes that contradict higher sources are n-canon.

It's not just a scene, but rather one of the whole entire plots of the game.
If you consider that much canon, then the rest must be as well.
And yes they do die, they fall into what looks like some sort of lava pit.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's not just a scene, but rather one of the whole entire plots of the game.
If you consider that much canon, then the rest must be as well.
And yes they do die, they fall into what looks like some sort of lava pit.

In that mission they live bro. The Twilight clearly saves Kenobi and Windu. That mission is a canon event. The game also has Anakin lol kicking Dooku into the Sarlacc Pit on Tatooine and him dying which is also you guessed it n-canon.

Proof they lived?
Also, if majority of the game is non-canon, considering this now canon is utter bull.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Proof they lived?
Also, if majority of the game is non-canon, considering this now canon is utter bull.

If you would stop being so damned pig headed and watch the video you'll see the ship ****ing saves both Windu and Kenobi. Rex is clearly seen. Also Dooku falls into the "lava" and Mace clearly states he's defeated not destroyed. And no. The ROTS game has a lot of N-canon stuff but shit like Anakin killing Jocasta Nu is canon.

Conceded. No need to be an ass about it.
Anakin killing Nu is canon because it has been confirmed by other sources.
Meanwhile, the Battle of Behpour is just as canon as the Hero of Umbara.
No other source mentions the battle at all, and considering the events in the battle, that means something.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
watch?v=7h_wnWlk518


The circumstances surrounding that fight are unknown, other than what we see during game play mechanics, which would be non canon. All we know is Kenobi apparently had the help of clones, which could have distracted Dooku, giving Kenobi the opportunity to use a force push against Dooku, which isn't inconsistent, nor does it suggests Kenobi is Dooku's superior in TK. It just shows Kenobi's force pushes are powerful enough to tag someone like Dooku. Ahsoka has successfully used a force push on Ventress despite being far less powerful. Kenobi didn't directly overpower Dooku with TK. Also, where is your proof that Rex and Cody die in the game?

Regardless, Dooku's other TK feats are far more impressive than Revan's, and he has directly overpowered Ventress, who has comparable TK feats to Revan.

As for your other arguments, I'm not going in circles. I've addressed all of your arguments in the very post you responded to. Apparently you're unable to follow. I'll see what Neph can provide. You're a waste of time. I did get a good laugh at your insults though. (lol)

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Conceded. No need to be an ass about it.

Sorry dude I don't like repeating myself 3 times.



Right but it was first shown in the game. There are also parts of the ROTS novel that aren't canon. But that doesn't mean the whole novel is discarded.



Yes but the HoU is so ridiculous that I don't even think he has a wookiepedia page anymore.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The circumstances surrounding that fight are unknown, other than what we see during game play mechanics, which would be non canon. All we know is Kenobi apparently had the help of clones, which could have distracted Dooku, giving Kenobi the opportunity to use a force push against Dooku, which isn't inconsistent, nor does it suggests Kenobi is Dooku's superior in TK. It just shows Kenobi's force pushes are powerful enough to tag someone like Dooku. Ahsoka has successfully used a force push on Ventress despite being far less powerful. Kenobi didn't directly overpower Dooku with TK. Also, where is your proof that Rex and Cody die in the game?

Regardless, Dooku's other TK feats are far more impressive than Revan's, and he has directly overpowered Ventress, who has comparable TK feats to Revan.

As for your other arguments, I'm not going in circles. I've addressed all of your arguments in the very post you responded to. Apparently you're unable to follow. I'll see what Neph can provide. You're a waste of time. I did get a good laugh at your insults though. (lol)


Don't bother bro that whole duel is n-canon. I already debunked it. There's no time for Kenobi to have dueled Dooku + Dooku was out of system.

Sidious laid the smack down on Ant

No, no, no. You don't get the point. The fight was non-canon, as well as seemingly everything else in the game. Yet the Battle of Behpour, which concerned the fate of the entire Naboo system, is? It has no mention in any other sources, and a canonical battle with that much importance certainly would be. Regardless, even that feat does not put him above Revan.


Except they don't. No one on this forum agrees with you, and majority of users are laughing at you for even suggesting this.
We can have a direct comparison of their best TK feats if you want to, but Revan will come out as the superior.


Except you haven't at all. Your argument revolves around dismissing all of Revan's feats, then exaggerating Dooku's.
Hell, I doubt you even knew about the building accolade. I guess I accept your concession?

Also, glad we agree the same about eachother.


It should be.
Parts=/=the entire game.
Though like I said, that feat is not as impressive as some of Revan's.


He does bro. All hail HoU.

I would like to clarify some things, we have yet to see what Revan can do if he taps in to his peak strength. We got a glimpse of what he is capable of when he send a godlike being packing with a blast of power by approaching oneness like condition, a feat that he pulled off at will. Noted that Emperor Vitiate was caught off-guard at that moment, but still it is virtually impossible to dominate him like that even at his low point. On top of this, Revan could even properly channel that kind of power onto a target if he had time but he didn't had time for this while confronting Emperor. This revelation lends credibility to author's claim that Revan is capable of collapsing even a large building with his TK abilities, should he try. He have that kind of raw power.

As far as other feats of Revan are concerned, he performed those feats with barely an effort. He instantly threw a heavy object towards position of grenades to protect himself from the impending blast, collapsed a large archway without even a gesture from afar, and blew open two enormous doors simultaneously but he didn't intend to destroy these doors, otherwise Imperial Guard would distract him from Emperor, he intended to shut these doors once he was inside.

Also, Revan pulled down several gigantic rocks from the Foundry on to its arena as if they were nothing. Gigantic rocks are extremely heavy objects, much more so then small obelisks.

Furthermore, Revan blocked Nyriss's lightning with barely an effort; a feat that even Yoda found difficult to pull off with his immense raw power.

In the nutshell, yes, Revan is Yoda-level Force-user by all accounts and he is above the likes of Dooku and Vader.

---

My advice to every member is to focus on context and depth and not just black & white comparisons which can be misleading.

I like you legends. You write in a concise, easy to read, but still informative way.

Btw, totally agree with what you said. Any feats for dooku better that knocking over a balcony? (That's not impressive at all. You do that at one point in Grand Theft kriffing Auto.)

Originally posted by TobaccoRoad
I like you legends. You write in a concise, easy to read, but still informative way.

Btw, totally agree with what you said. Any feats for dooku better that knocking over a balcony? (That's not impressive at all. You do that at one point in Grand Theft kriffing Auto.)
Thank you

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yes, it is.

Why, because she didn't knock out Meetra with a single bolt of lightning? That's all you're basing that on? Hilarious. Have you for a moment considered that Meetra's force defenses might surpass those of the people you're bringing up? Of course not, all of them are fully capable of solo'ing an entire temple of Sith and defeating two Sith Lords multiple times each, what am I thinking.

Anyway, Nyriss only hit her with a single bolt of lightning. You can't compare that to Dooku's sustained attacks on people.

Nyriss' lightning has provably superior potency than Dooku's does. She was capable of turning armored guards into charred and smoking husks with it, which is a level of power beyond what Dooku's impotent attacks are capable of. No-one's even been a little burnt by his attacks. I can show you examples of him not even burning non-force sensitives with his lightning. So I don't know why we're still talking about this really, its basically already a proven fact.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
She had jedi training, and was self trained for years before becoming Dooku's apprentices. Her talent was enough to impress Dooku, which is why he took her in as his apprentice.

I'm aware, my point was that this was an extremely early version of Ventress well before she'd reached her stride. Knocking her out with a sustained blast of lightning (Nyriss only hit Meetra with a single bolt ) for nearly 10 seconds is hardly that impressive. Ventress wasn't even shown to have attempted to block the attack, while Meetra was able to lessen the effects by throwing up a Force shield.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He's also sent Anakin flying meters, and onto his ass. Anakin >> Meetra.

Lmao. AotC Anakin, sure.

If you're referring to when Anakin was choking him, however, Dooku uses TK to throw Anakin back. He hits him with lightning inside Anakin's guard and throws him backwards while Anakin is writhing in pain.

Needless to say, it was again a sustained burst in both cases.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No, Dooku's standard lightning is just that good. Apparently better than Nyriss's nexus-enhanced standard lighting.

Only if we assume that Bulq has superior Force defenses than Meetra does. And that he actually managed to throw up some defenses instead of Dooku catching him off-guard. I see no reason to do either.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
None of them were untrained.

They were untrained in the Force. They had no way of defending themselves from his lightning or lessening the effects of it. Defeating a Force sensitive is only impressive if they have some way to actively engaging their strength against yours through force defenses. Otherwise you're not really overpowering them, are you?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Come to think of it, Dooku's standard lightning is better than Vitiate's. Vitiate has to use prolong uses of FS + an amped attack to take out anyone. Other than that, his standard lightning was easily handled by the blades of Revan and HoT while on a nexus. Yet you place his lightning higher than Palpatine's.



http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140324041430/p__/protagonist/images/d/dd/Saitama_OK.jpg


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No, I can't. IDK if Revan had downed them with a force attack and then brought those meteors down on them. IDK how it happened. All I know is Revan brought down some meteors because it is a scripted event that occurs within game mechanic material, which is known for exaggerating force usage more so than the mini CW, which is a source you disregard because of that very reason.

Wouldn't it be just as impressive if Revan was able to incapacitate Sith as powerful as Nox and the Wrath for long enough to perform the feat without interference as it would be if he performed the feat while dealing with their interference? Either way it's great.

It's a scripted event. It's no more a mere gameplay mechanic than Ganon shooting lightning balls or whatever. It's an event that occurs as part of the plot of the fight. Gameplay mechanics are non-diagetic. Theres a difference.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
In this case, it's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. Dooku's TK feats do require tremendous raw power.

You disagreeing with it, is no different than me disagreeing that water is liquid and turns to ice when frozen.

It's a matter of opinion what one chooses to label as 'tremendous power'.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That's nice. Revan has a lot of raw power. Good for him. Never said he didn't.

I know. The issue is that you think Dooku has as much or more power than him. He doesn't.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Prove it.

It's simple physics, as shown in the link I provided earlier in the thread. The amount of energy needed to produce the amount of force on a number of massive objects like Revan did is staggering.


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, I don't either considering they have no way of making such calculations. We have no idea how much those meteors weigh or how solid they are. They cause no damage to the surface, and turned to dirt upon impact with the ground. Although, like you said, it may be because it happens within game mechanic material. Sorry, though, but you can't only accept certain parts of game mechanics that favor you argument, but disregard others based on the fact that it happens within the game's mechanics. Either you accept what we see in the game's mechanics, or you don't.

I believe they usually use the average density of certain kinds of rock to produce a rough estimate after calculating the size of the object through comparison to the figures or objects around it. Or perhaps they used the common density of meteorites. Either way, they give low-ball figures as well, by assuming everything is as low as it's possible to be. The energy is still considerable. As to the weight of the meteors, I give you a comparison later.

Unlike you, I actually know what I'm talking about when it comes to gameplay mechanics. Probably from having extensively argued about such matters in the Video Game forums. Attacks causing no damage to the environment is just a gameplay mechanic. Obviously, the creators of TOR simply cannot code destructible environments into the game. And anyway, this is a super-advanced Rakatan fortress. The platform could just be made of an incredibly strong metal. It's not proof of anything. And again, it's a gameplay mechanic that they turn to "dirt" upon impact. The developers can't put debris into the game. It would severely **** up performance and be too expensive to do. These are the kinds of things you just have to accept as being not representative of reality due to limitations in the game. The attack itself, and the size of the meteors, isn't anything like either of those things.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
We know very little about the feat other than he brought down some meteors. Ventress feat of ripping down large chunks from a cave ceiling is just as impressive, yet Dooku has consistently dominated her with TK. Basically, Dooku can dominate a Revan level Telekinetic with his TK (yes, I'm going there).


I think I just pissed my panties.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Supports with enough force to hold possibly well over a ton of weight, considering it's size. Ripping through metal supports is far greater than bringing down some meteors of unknown quantity and quality. Also lifting a dozen of huge obelisks far above his head simultaneously, and holding them there for several seconds would require tremendous raw power and a high level of refinement. Given that these feats were performed very easily by Dooku, would suggest that they aren't even near his limit.

Dooku's TK >>> Revan's. Fact.

O RLY?

Isn't it just as true that we don't know the quality of the metal Dooku broke? For all we know it could have been weakened considerably by rust or something, barely able to support its own weight. Or it could be a light-weight alloy that required little force to break. So maybe you shouldn't try throwing around those stones in that glass house, eh?

Also, lmao "well over a ton"? You are aware that even one of those meteors would weigh dozens, perhaps hundreds of tons? Don't believe me? Well look:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/The_Hoba_Meteorite_near_Grootfontein.jpg

This is the Hoba Meteorite found near Grootfontein. It is considerably smaller than the meteors Revan was raining down on the Strike Team. It's estimated at 70 tons.

Even not counting that, if I were feeling merciful, the meteors are vastly larger than the obalisks that Dooku lifted, based off of a comparison between their size compared to Revan against the obalisks compared to Dooku. And there were more of them. And throwing an object requires much more force than is needed to simply lift it. Revan's feat utterly eclipses Dooku's.

Revan >> Dooku in TK. Suck science neeerd.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Dooku seems to hold the advantage in TK, and has actually overpowered other powerful force users with TK alone, whereas don't recall Revan ever casually overpowering other powerful force users with his.

Revan throws around the Strike Team in certain scripted events. I don't believe it needs to be said, but Nox and the Wrath are both considerably powerful.

Excellent points, Neph. Well said.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Excellent points, Neph. Well said.
Agreed.
Personally, I found it hard to respond to his points without trying to kill myself.
They were so "wow" I didn't even know where to start. You did a very good job though.
However, I will also like to note again that we *do* know the size of the meteros, via cutscene.
http://i.imgur.com/9prSYE4.jpg
Those babies up there are what Revan pulled down. ^


"But this young one, like the other Jedi brethren, is unaware of the tremendous dark side power wielded by Revan..."
-Chronicles of the Old Republic http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/1390042426.gif

Thanks guys.

Anytime, bae.

Welcome, Neph.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Anytime, bae.
He is mine. Weapon. Slave. Servant. And he will obey.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Welcome, Neph.


He is mine. Weapon. Slave. Servant. And he will obey.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He is mine. Weapon. Slave. Servant. And he will obey.
Excuse yourself, but we are legally married.
Now, please leave my presence as Neph and I have "business" to attend to.
*opens door to bedroom*

*falls asleep*

*slowly begins to kiss sleeping Neph*

*snores*

*slips off Neph's panties*

*kicks Ant in his sleep*


*also sleeptalks to remind Ant the importance of consent* http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

wow ant, you can barely arouse your own waifu

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why, because she didn't knock out Meetra with a single bolt of lightning? That's all you're basing that on? Hilarious.


Better than "He didn't even leave a burn mark!"


Originally posted by Nephthys
Have you for a moment considered that Meetra's force defenses might surpass those of the people you're bringing up?


Nope. Considering the fight was on a dark side nexus, which would decrease her powers and increase Nyriss's, I just don't find Nyriss's lightning as good as Dooku's, and that she needed to charge her attack to actually do anything other than simply knocking them down.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Anyway, Nyriss only hit her with a single bolt of lightning. You can't compare that to Dooku's sustained attacks on people.


Double standards much.

Sidious knocks Yoda unconscious with a mere short blast, but yet you find Vitiate knocking out a strike team with one prolonged attack + a charged attack more impressive. I claimed that it took Vitiate far more power to render the strike team unconscious. Your counter claim to that was, we don't know if Vitiate needed another charged attack to take out the two remaining jedi. Well, I'll go ahead and make the same claim. Dooku used a sustained attack on her because he wanted to, as you also said with Vitiate.


Originally posted by Nephthys
She was capable of turning armored guards into charred and smoking husks with it, which is a level of power beyond what Dooku's impotent attacks are capable of.


I find killing a group of force sensitive zabraks more impressive. If you're referring to the kiffar warriors, I don't believe their bodies were shown after Dooku killed them to know if they were burnt.



Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm aware, my point was that this was an extremely early version of Ventress well before she'd reached her stride.


Irrelevant. She was a powerful force user even then. She impressed both Sidious and Dooku. Her force feats are superior to Meetra's. In fact, Dooku implied that she already had what it took to be labeled a sith lord, and that she only lacked one quality to classify, which was having a lot of fear.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Knocking her out with a sustained blast of lightning (Nyriss only hit Meetra with a single bolt ) for nearly 10 seconds is hardly that impressive. Ventress wasn't even shown to have attempted to block the attack


See above. Furthermore, force defenses are invisible during combat. If the force wasn't used to actively resist the attack, she would have went down even faster, assuming Dooku wasn't using the attack as a means of torture before finally putting her out.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Lmao. AotC Anakin, sure.



Even AOTC Anakin, who Dooku put out for close to 30 seconds via lightning, was more powerful than AOTC Kenobi by that point, and managed to press Dooku more than Kenobi. Not to mention that his force feats shortly after AOTC are superior to Meetra's


Originally posted by Nephthys
If you're referring to when Anakin was choking him, however, Dooku uses TK to throw Anakin back. He hits him with lightning inside Anakin's guard and throws him backwards while Anakin is writhing in pain.


It was Dooku's lightning that threw Anakin back. Anakin was resisting the first attack, then Dooku used the force to levitate Anakin, and then another lightning attack to blast him meters away, similar to what Sidious did to him in the ritual. You can see the trail of lightning that blasted Anakin back coming from Dooku's direction.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Needless to say, it was again a sustained burst in both cases.


Needless to say, it was again an off nexus attack.



Originally posted by Nephthys
And that he actually managed to throw up some defenses instead of Dooku catching him off-guard. I see no reason to do either.


Force users have force auras/barriers put up when in combat situations. They are invisible as I told you before.

Just because we don't see a glowing shield coming from their bodies doesn't mean they aren't actively using the force to resist a lightning attack, otherwise Anakin wouldn't be able to handle Dooku's lightning any better than when he was a padawan. We didn't see Maul throw up a shield, but he obviously used the force to resist the attack, which surprised Mighella. Based on her reaction of Maul being powerful enough to resist her lightning, would suggest that no one else apparently has, which seems to imply that only strong force users can resist lightning from a force user of Mighella's calibre, who was confirmed being inferior to Maul, so I don't assume her lightning is near Dooku's. Not to mention that Dooku's lightning, which was only meant to torture Maul, visibly affected Maul more than Mighella's.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Defeating a Force sensitive is only impressive if they have some way to actively engaging their strength against yours through force defenses.


Anakin had over 10 years of training as of AOTC, and was more powerful than some jedi knights,. Bulq was a master (I believe), was already a master of multiple saber forms, was strong enough in the force for Mace to choose him to help develop a saber force that requires a powerful force user to master, and was goood enough to give Mace a struggle in a fight, even landing a force attack on Windu. Ventress had jedi training and was self trained for years after, and I believe she had already defeated some jedi by that point. But, yeah, none of them had any force defenses.

If you truly believed that, then you would have to believe that Ventress's body is just that durable, considering it took a sustained attack from Dooku to KO her, as you said, while it took one short blast from Dooku, coming from one hand, to KO Bulq.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Otherwise you're not really overpowering them, are you?



If their force power isn't sufficient to resist your attack, yes you are.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Wouldn't it be just as impressive if Revan was able to incapacitate Sith as powerful as Nox and the Wrath for long enough to perform the feat without interference as it would be if he performed the feat while dealing with their interference? Either way it's great.


Nope the former would suggest he needed room and/or to distance himself to give him enough time to perform the feat, which would in turn suggest that it required more power and effort from him; while the latter would suggest he did so far more casually, and didn't struggle at all to pull it off.

See what I mean, we don't know how it was done. All we know is that he did it because it's a scripted event. We don't know how much of an effort he put into it.



Originally posted by Nephthys
It's a scripted event. It's no more a mere gameplay mechanic than Ganon shooting lightning balls or whatever.


What? lol


Originally posted by Nephthys
It's an event that occurs as part of the plot of the fight. Gameplay mechanics are non-diagetic. Theres a difference.


It's an event that occurs within game play content, which is known to exaggerate feats.

Like you said, it's something that happens whether or not Revan is up close to his opponents (which is something I doubt Revan would do given the size of the meteors). We don't know the circumstances surrounding the feat, which does matter when comparing feats. Hell, for all we know, Revan could have went super rage mode, as Ventress did when she overpowered both Skywalker and Kenobi at the same time, or as Savage did when he did the same to Dooku and Ventress.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's a matter of opinion what one chooses to label as 'tremendous power'.


When we see a force user, who can easily force push a ship over a cliff, struggle to lift 4, it is an indication of how heavy those objects are. That Dooku lifted all 12 of them very casually, is a glimpse of the raw power Dooku has at his disposal.

It's your opinion that it requires more raw force power to pull off Revan's absorption feat. They're two separate applications of power that are very different. You can just as easily say it requires more raw power to pull off Revan's absorption feat than it would to pull off Vader's feat of crushing a tie fighter like a tin can with a mere gesture. However, you wouldn't be able to prove it, and you'd be arguing from your opinion, nothing more.



Originally posted by Nephthys
I know. The issue is that you think Dooku has as much or more power than him. He doesn't.


I didn't say Dooku had "much more" raw power than Revan. However, since the TOR wank is getting out of hand here, and retarded claims are being made, such as Revan's power being on par with Sidious and Yoda based on his quotes that suggest he is powerful, and his impressive absorption feat, then I'll go ahead and say Dooku can easily dismiss Revan with TK based on the fact that he has consistently done so to Ventress, whose TK feats are comparable to Revan's. After all, when discussing a hypothetical vs match, actual feats mean more than a bunch of implications. For the most part I've been pretty reasonable by placing Revan on a similar footing with Dooku, but since the lowballing and wanking is getting out of hand, then I don't see why I should be reasonable any longer.

Even posters such as yourself are getting out of hand with lowballing characters based on onscreen/on-panel feats, but when a force user from an era you prefer doesn't have any notable feats off of a nexus to put them on par with character you're arguing against, you try to ignore the concept of how a nexus works, and you'll make up some lame argument that a place being strong in the dark side doesn't mean it's a dark side nexus, despite the fact that that's basically what a nexus is. Or you will rely on a bunch of quotes and implications of power to elevate characters you prefer. Dooku has some of the best accolades there are, and he has the feats to back them up, but yet you want lowball him and force your opinion that Revan is above him, despite showing nothing to prove it.



Originally posted by Nephthys
It's simple physics, as shown in the link I provided earlier in the thread.


It's not simple physics when they have no way to determine the density of the objects.




Originally posted by Nephthys
Or perhaps they used the common density of meteorites.


Which is impossible for them to do, given that most meters do not even make it all the way through our atmosphere. The common meteors that are weighed are the ones that land.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Unlike you, I actually know what I'm talking about when it comes to gameplay mechanics.


Then why not have the meteors vanish. I've seen stuff like that happen in older less advanced games. Did the designers of the game add the dirt splatter effect to make it more flashy, and then expect the players to assume they are of equal density to the meteors that manage to pass through our atmosphere and land on earth?




Originally posted by Nephthys
Isn't it just as true that we don't know the quality of the metal Dooku broke? For all we know it could have been weakened considerably by rust or something, barely able to support its own weight. Or it could be a light-weight alloy that required little force to break.


Even if you want to take the silly route. Dooku has plenty of other impressive feats, such as dominating other force users, who have comparable TK feats to Revan.



Originally posted by Nephthys
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/The_Hoba_Meteorite_near_Grootfontein.jpg


Unlike those meteors that are shown within the game play mechanics, this meteor was actually weighed. It's density and durability was such that it managed to actually land on earth. You can't say that because those meteors in the game looked big, that they are durable enough to land on earth. Even meteors bigger than the one in the picture sometimes burn out and completely and disintegrate before reaching the earth's surface. Not all meteors are the same in density, nor are all of them made of the same material.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Even not counting that, if I were feeling merciful, the meteors are vastly larger than the obalisks that Dooku lifted


So was the star ship that Savage pushed over the cliff. In fact the ship was bigger than half of the obelisks, yet Savage struggled immensely just to lift four despite receiving somewhat of a rage boost at the hands of Dooku's torturing. Before that, he couldn't even lift two.

The huge bolders that Ventress ripped from a cave ceiling were larger than those obelisks. They were also larger than Revan's meteors. They were large and heavy enough to smash giant warriors like bugs, and yet Dooku has consistently overpowered Ventress with casual ease.

Unlike Revan, Ventress has consistently been portrayed as having powerful TK, such as causing a massive avalanche, throwing around large tree trunks, force pushing a small army of clone troopers + Anakin, choking out & killing a group of pirates with a mere gesture right after awakening from unconsciousness, and, in a fit of rage, she overpowered both Skywalker and Kenobi despite their efforts to break free. Hell, as a mere child, she force hurled the assassin who killed her jedi master higher than some buildings, IIRC. The fact that Dooku can casually overpower a force user that weilds such raw power, is beyond anything Revan has done with TK.

Originally posted by Nephthys
based off of a comparison between their size compared to Revan against the obalisks compared to Dooku. And there were more of them.


The only thing you have proven is that they were bigger individually than the obelisks were individually; not that they weigh more. I'm also assuming that the longer the battle lasts, the more Revan dropped, which would depend on how good the player is and how quickly he finishes the fight, correct? Once again, very little is known about the feat, other than he dropped some meteors.

Furthermore, Dooku lifted them all at once, very easily.


Originally posted by Nephthys
And throwing an object requires much more force than is needed to simply lift it. Revan's feat utterly eclipses Dooku's.


Well Revan didn't throw them from what I seen. He dropped them one at a time, maybe two at a time at most. However, he didn't drop more than a dozen at a time. Dooku casually lifting a dozen of heavy objects high in the air, against the force of gravity is more impressive.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan throws around the Strike Team in certain scripted events. I don't believe it needs to be said, but Nox and the Wrath are both considerably powerful.


Ok, they're powerful so that means their TK are greater than Ventress', who has directly overpowered both Anakin and Obi Wan at the same time. Of course you could argue it was a one off feat due to her rage enhanced state, while I can't say that Revan force pushing two force users was under the same circumstance, because, once again, we don't know the circumstance surrounding that feat, other than he does it, do we?

Also, does Revan directly grip them then throw them around, or did he just use a powerful force push to knock them off balance (which is different than directly overpowering them the way Dooku does Ventress), because Ventress has done that to Anakin several times?

Read this and understand Emperor, lol.

Confirmations in your above post, SIDIOUS 66:
1. You never read my respect thread.
2. You never played/watched the Foundry fight.
3. You never played Knights of the Old Republic.
4. You never bothered to read any information on Revan.
5. You never told me you were so hilarious.
What makes you think you can jump into a Revan debate?

I would like to point out that ripping something from orbit takes a lot strength. Revan actually pulls the meteors away from gravity, he didn't use it. From what I saw in the Flashpoint.

Originally posted by carthage
Read this and understand Emperor, lol.
**** off Carthage.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
http://cdn.sheknows.com/filter/l/gallery/james_van_der_beek_cry.jpg

Sidious 66: U mad bro?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What makes you think you can jump into a Revan debate?


Based on just about all of your replies to me suggests you are unable to follow any of my arguments. What makes you think you can debate with me?

Of course I can't follow your arguments.
They are beyond my level of comprehension.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Of course I can't follow your arguments.
They are beyond my level of comprehension.


No, you're just so obsessed with Revan's absorption feat that you think all of my arguments revolve around it.

It took me several posts to get one simple point across to you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious 66: U mad bro?


Yes.

Let's fight.

So dooku is better at TK than yoda? That's what you're saying mr. 66

I personally think Revan is more powerful than Dooku, but S66 is spanking Neph pretty consistently on the double standards and wank.

So far the only double standard made has been his, when he made an argument that applied just as much to Dooku as it did Revan. And I hardly think I'm wanking just because I'm daring to suggest Revan has superior TK than Dooku.

No, I agree that Revan is more powerful than Dooku. Your conclusion is fine, the means by which you arrive at it kinda suck, though.

And as far as the double standards are concerned, he's called you out on them pretty consistently and I don't blame him for playing the game by your rules and beating you.

It's gratifying to see a cheater outcheated.

What double standards am I making? Point them out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What double standards am I making? Point them out.

He already has. I'd just be quoting him.

You mean that one thing about Vitiate that has nothing to do with the discussion and is just him pissily conceding the point while ranting at me?

I... guess I'm being schooled there?

It's still a double standard he's right to call you out on, imo. All you do is further the impression that the SWTOR camp (of which you are something of a figurehead and certainly their most gifted debater) can't properly labor the point without indulging in cheap double standards.

Then S66 comes along and demonstrates the futility of your worldview by using the same tactics that keep the debate from proceeding, to your frustration.

Not really. I've already explained my reasoning to him on that matter. It's not a double standard that I simply have a different opinion than him. If anything the double standard is his, since I never even brought up Nyriss beating the Exile with a single bolt of lightning as a positive feat. Rather, he's using it as a negative here. But when Sidious does it suddenly its amazing. Spare me. His whole reasoning is "The Exile sucks and its pathetic that she wasn't knocked out with a single bolt of lightning."

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really. I've already explained my reasoning to him on that matter. It's not a double standard that I simply have a different opinion than him. If anything the double standard is his, since I never even brought up Nyriss beating the Exile with a single bolt of lightning as a positive feat. Rather, he's using it as a negative here. But when Sidious does it suddenly its amazing. Spare me. His whole reasoning is "The Exile sucks and its pathetic that she wasn't knocked out with a single bolt of lightning."

...And you don't use similar logic to "lowball" certain characters?

Um, slander much? And that wasn't what he said, so its not relevant to the supposed spanking I'm receiving. Feels more like light cupping to me.

Also is that a concession that he's making double standard "too"?

Sure, S66 and I have already said that he's using your playbook to beat you. Your choice looks ever much like losing a fair fight or losing an unfair fight. (The enduring tragedy of the SWTOR camp.)

I still agree with you that Revan could take Dooku, pretty much always have. But it's just funny to see him use your own tactics to frustrate you.

The only thing frustrating me is how much ****ing text he wrote out. Replying is going to be exhausting. Other than that I have this in the bag. I'm just going to laugh off his lame attempts at annoying me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Confirmations in your above post, SIDIOUS 66:
1. You never read my respect thread.
2. You never played/watched the Foundry fight.
3. You never played Knights of the Old Republic.
4. You never bothered to read any information on Revan.
5. You never told me you were so hilarious.
What makes you think you can jump into a Revan debate?

Confirmations in the above post:

1. DarthAnt66 can't counter Sidious's argument, and thus is making irrelevant distraction posts in desperation.

I can, and I did.
He just didn't respond back to me.
Though Neph got this one easily.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Better than "He didn't even leave a burn mark!"

Not true. Dooku has a demonstrated ability to not being able to char the bodies of those he hits with Force lightning. Or at least has never demonstrated that level of power. This makes a better comparison to other uses of Force Lightning than what effect his lightning had on force sensitives, who's resistance isn't verifiable or provable.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Nope. Considering the fight was on a dark side nexus, which would decrease her powers and increase Nyriss's, I just don't find Nyriss's lightning as good as Dooku's, and that she needed to charge her attack to actually do anything other than simply knocking them down.

I don't care if it was on a nexus, Meetra solo'd an entire Sith academy full of Sith Lords on a vastly more powerful nexus than the possible nexus on Kaas. Suggesting that their Force defenses > theirs is not an established fact. Theres no indication Nyriss was drawing on a nexus either. And as I've already stated, dthat instance isn't comparable with any of Dooku's since she only hit Meetra with a single bolt. If Dooku had only hit Ventress or Anakin with a single bolt they wouldn't have been knocked out either.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Double standards much.

Sidious knocks Yoda unconscious with a mere short blast, but yet you find Vitiate knocking out a strike team with one prolonged attack + a charged attack more impressive. I claimed that it took Vitiate far more power to render the strike team unconscious. Your counter claim to that was, we don't know if Vitiate needed another charged attack to take out the two remaining jedi. Well, I'll go ahead and make the same claim. Dooku used a sustained attack on her because he wanted to, as you also said with Vitiate.

Nice concession. Would you like some cheese to go along with that whine?

Nyriss' attack isn't comparable to Dooku's. Admit it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I find killing a group of force sensitive zabraks more impressive. If you're referring to the kiffar warriors, I don't believe their bodies were shown after Dooku killed them to know if they were burnt.

It wasn't even confirmed that he killed them as opposed to knocking them out. And it isn't more impressive unless you can prove those zabraks resistance to lightning.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Irrelevant. She was a powerful force user even then. She impressed both Sidious and Dooku. Her force feats are superior to Meetra's. In fact, Dooku implied that she already had what it took to be labeled a sith lord, and that she only lacked one quality to classify, which was having a lot of fear.

Not irrelevant because she hadn't demonstrated anything suggesting her defenses > Meetra's at that time and wasn't nearly as powerful as she became later in the Clone Wars. Meetra was able to take everything Kreia could throw at her and beat her twice and Kreia is much more powerful than Ventress.

Lol @ trying to use Tartovsky feats though.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
See above. Furthermore, force defenses are invisible during combat. If the force wasn't used to actively resist the attack, she would have went down even faster, assuming Dooku wasn't using the attack as a means of torture before finally putting her out.

That they're invisible only means is that its impossible for you to prove she put any up in time. Torture is a possibility or she could have started resisting after being hit with the lightning. Or maybe Dooku's lightning sucks.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Even AOTC Anakin, who Dooku put out for close to 30 seconds via lightning, was more powerful than AOTC Kenobi by that point, and managed to press Dooku more than Kenobi. Not to mention that his force feats shortly after AOTC are superior to Meetra's

Anakin's Force defenses aren't more powerful than Kenobi's though. That's why he ended up in a corner and Kenobi didn't. Meetra beat Traya whose force feats are far superior to AotC Anakin's. Meetra was able to deal with Traya's attacks but not Nyriss', which should tell you how powerful the latter was.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It was Dooku's lightning that threw Anakin back. Anakin was resisting the first attack, then Dooku used the force to levitate Anakin, and then another lightning attack to blast him meters away, similar to what Sidious did to him in the ritual. You can see the trail of lightning that blasted Anakin back coming from Dooku's direction.

It wasn't the lightning. Look at Dooku's hand when he's pushing him away. He uses a two-handed Force Push and then follows it up with lightning again.

Xhys5CPFB_I

2.45.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Needless to say, it was again an off nexus attack.

Prove a nexus would make the difference between knocking out with a single bolt and knocking out with a sustained blast of lightning.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Force users have force auras/barriers put up when in combat situations. They are invisible as I told you before.

Just because we don't see a glowing shield coming from their bodies doesn't mean they aren't actively using the force to resist a lightning attack, otherwise Anakin wouldn't be able to handle Dooku's lightning any better than when he was a padawan. We didn't see Maul throw up a shield, but he obviously used the force to resist the attack, which surprised Mighella. Based on her reaction of Maul being powerful enough to resist her lightning, would suggest that no one else apparently has, which seems to imply that only strong force users can resist lightning from a force user of Mighella's calibre, who was confirmed being inferior to Maul, so I don't assume her lightning is near Dooku's. Not to mention that Dooku's lightning, which was only meant to torture Maul, visibly affected Maul more than Mighella's.

Anakin didn't handle Dooku's lightning any better than when he was a padawan.

My impression was that Maul resisted Mighella's lightning through sheer physical toughness and his zabrak endurance, not the Force. As I recall the lightning was actually hitting him, which doesn't suggest a Force barrier at work unless she broke through it. Also of course a nobody like Mighella's lightning is inferior to Dooku's. I don't think he's THAT pathetic.


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Anakin had over 10 years of training as of AOTC, and was more powerful than some jedi knights,. Bulq was a master (I believe), was already a master of multiple saber forms, was strong enough in the force for Mace to choose him to help develop a saber force that requires a powerful force user to master, and was goood enough to give Mace a struggle in a fight, even landing a force attack on Windu. Ventress had jedi training and was self trained for years after, and I believe she had already defeated some jedi by that point. But, yeah, none of them had any force defenses.

If you truly believed that, then you would have to believe that Ventress's body is just that durable, considering it took a sustained attack from Dooku to KO her, as you said, while it took one short blast from Dooku, coming from one hand, to KO Bulq.

I didn't say they had no Force defenses. Clearly they have the ability to use force barriers and such. I'm just questioning whether they actually used them when Dooku hit them. Dooku is a fencer after all, and his mindset is to outmaneuver opponents and hit them with the defenses exposed. In the case of Anakin he was recklessly charging forward and clearly not expecting Force Lightning, an attack that hadn't been seen in a thousand years. The same with Ventress, she literally ran into the attack. If they had really reacted to the attack, wouldn't they use their lightsabers for defense instead of a Force Barrier? Bulq occurred after Dooku had disarmed one of his lightsabers and we don't know the state he was in at the time.

Also I was talking about the nightbrothers but whatever.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
If their force power isn't sufficient to resist your attack, yes you are.

If they don't have the ability to even attempt to resist your attack, no you aren't.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Nope the former would suggest he needed room and/or to distance himself to give him enough time to perform the feat, which would in turn suggest that it required more power and effort from him; while the latter would suggest he did so far more casually, and didn't struggle at all to pull it off.

See what I mean, we don't know how it was done. All we know is that he did it because it's a scripted event. We don't know how much of an effort he put into it.

Or that it would be difficult to do while being shot at by two gunslingers, attacked with Force lightning and assaulted with a lightsaber. Either he WAS able to perform the feat while dealing with that, or he was able to beat the shit out of the strike team enough to allow him to perform the feat without them immediately attacking him. I see the second one as just as impressive as the first. Which would you, Dooku pulling down the scaffold while fighting Mace and Obi-Wan or Dooku knocking down Mace and Obi-Wan and then pulling it down?

If he needed to put effort into it then he's just put as much effort into his attacks on Dooku, it doesn't matter. It would only be more damning for you if he did it casually.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
What? lol

In Ocarina of Time part of Ganon's battle has him fly into the air and shoot lightning balls at Link. It's a scripted sequence that needs to happen for the story to go on and Link to beat him. Similarly, Revan always uses that attack at a scripted point in the fight as part of the canonical story of the fight, like Revan putting up a Force Bubble at the end and vanishing in a flash.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It's an event that occurs within game play content, which is known to exaggerate feats.

Like you said, it's something that happens whether or not Revan is up close to his opponents (which is something I doubt Revan would do given the size of the meteors). We don't know the circumstances surrounding the feat, which does matter when comparing feats. Hell, for all we know, Revan could have went super rage mode, as Ventress did when she overpowered both Skywalker and Kenobi at the same time, or as Savage did when he did the same to Dooku and Ventress.

Is it? I don't recall anything stating that. If anything characters are less impressive during gameplay.

Theres nothing suggesting rage mode. Kindly keep the baseless speculation to a minimum. I know it's hard for you. The circumstances are immaterial. Nothing could diminish the feat.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
When we see a force user, who can easily force push a ship over a cliff, struggle to lift 4, it is an indication of how heavy those objects are. That Dooku lifted all 12 of them very casually, is a glimpse of the raw power Dooku has at his disposal.

It's your opinion that it requires more raw force power to pull off Revan's absorption feat. They're two separate applications of power that are very different. You can just as easily say it requires more raw power to pull off Revan's absorption feat than it would to pull off Vader's feat of crushing a tie fighter like a tin can with a mere gesture. However, you wouldn't be able to prove it, and you'd be arguing from your opinion, nothing more.

Savage could only lift a few because his mastery was only sufficient to allow him to lift that many. It was a question of skill not power. Dooku doesn't eclipse Savage in terms of telekinetic power. He can't toss him around with the Force and Savage was even able to Force Choke him when he got mad. He could perform powerful brute force attacks like he did against the ship which isn't far from Dooku's own level of power. Think about it, Dooku had to pull down the scaffold to send the ship into the lava. If he were so much more powerful that Savage he could have easily pushed it in.

It's not opinion, its a scientific fact. Revan casually absorbed gigawatts of energy, which is well more than is needed to pull off any of Dooku's feats. Pulling down a scaffold or lifting some stone obalisks doesn't require that much power. It. Just. Doesn't. Whine all you want, it won't change the actual facts. Revans feat is better than Vader cubing TIE fighters btw.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I didn't say Dooku had "much more" raw power than Revan. However, since the TOR wank is getting out of hand here, and retarded claims are being made, such as Revan's power being on par with Sidious and Yoda based on his quotes that suggest he is powerful, and his impressive absorption feat, then I'll go ahead and say Dooku can easily dismiss Revan with TK based on the fact that he has consistently done so to Ventress, whose TK feats are comparable to Revan's. After all, when discussing a hypothetical vs match, actual feats mean more than a bunch of implications. For the most part I've been pretty reasonable by placing Revan on a similar footing with Dooku, but since the lowballing and wanking is getting out of hand, then I don't see why I should be reasonable any longer.

Even posters such as yourself are getting out of hand with lowballing characters based on onscreen/on-panel feats, but when a force user from an era you prefer doesn't have any notable feats off of a nexus to put them on par with character you're arguing against, you try to ignore the concept of how a nexus works, and you'll make up some lame argument that a place being strong in the dark side doesn't mean it's a dark side nexus, despite the fact that that's basically what a nexus is. Or you will rely on a bunch of quotes and implications of power to elevate characters you prefer. Dooku has some of the best accolades there are, and he has the feats to back them up, but yet you want lowball him and force your opinion that Revan is above him, despite showing nothing to prove it.

I said "as much or more", not "much more".

Blah blah butthurt blah blah CW feats blah blah SMH.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It's not simple physics when they have no way to determine the density of the objects.

Even with some of the lightest rocks the feat would be above Dooku's feats. You don't seem to grasp that.

Also it goes without saying that this applies to Dooku's orbalisks as well.


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Which is impossible for them to do, given that most meters do not even make it all the way through our atmosphere. The common meteors that are weighed are the ones that land.

The intact ones, smart guy.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Then why not have the meteors vanish. I've seen stuff like that happen in older less advanced games. Did the designers of the game add the dirt splatter effect to make it more flashy, and then expect the players to assume they are of equal density to the meteors that manage to pass through our atmosphere and land on earth?

They added dirt becuase it'd look retarded if they just vanished and tbh the meteor's hit the ground so fast that you might not even notice them without some indication they hit. I don't know what you're driving at here. The dirt effect obviously isn't representative of the actual impact, there's way less "dirt" than there is meteor.


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Even if you want to take the silly route. Dooku has plenty of other impressive feats, such as dominating other force users, who have comparable TK feats to Revan.

Well that's not true so ok.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Unlike those meteors that are shown within the game play mechanics, this meteor was actually weighed. It's density and durability was such that it managed to actually land on earth. You can't say that because those meteors in the game looked big, that they are durable enough to land on earth. Even meteors bigger than the one in the picture sometimes burn out and completely and disintegrate before reaching the earth's surface. Not all meteors are the same in density, nor are all of them made of the same material.

Even if the meteors were half the density of that they're twice as big and Revan pulled down over a dozen of them.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So was the star ship that Savage pushed over the cliff. In fact the ship was bigger than half of the obelisks, yet Savage struggled immensely just to lift four despite receiving somewhat of a rage boost at the hands of Dooku's torturing. Before that, he couldn't even lift two.

I already covered this. Suggesting that Dooku >>> Savage is stupid and you know it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The huge bolders that Ventress ripped from a cave ceiling were larger than those obelisks. They were also larger than Revan's meteors. They were large and heavy enough to smash giant warriors like bugs, and yet Dooku has consistently overpowered Ventress with casual ease.

Lmao.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Unlike Revan, Ventress has consistently been portrayed as having powerful TK, such as causing a massive avalanche, throwing around large tree trunks, force pushing a small army of clone troopers + Anakin, choking out & killing a group of pirates with a mere gesture right after awakening from unconsciousness, and, in a fit of rage, she overpowered both Skywalker and Kenobi despite their efforts to break free. Hell, as a mere child, she force hurled the assassin who killed her jedi master higher than some buildings, IIRC. The fact that Dooku can casually overpower a force user that weilds such raw power, is beyond anything Revan has done with TK.

Unlike Ventress, Revan has consistently been portrayed as one of the most powerful beings to ever live, so cool story bro. But please, keep bringing up invalid, mediocre and circumstantial feats, I can always use a chuckle.

Also lol, "mere gesture"? That was no mere gesture. I know you're mad but don't stoop to lying, assh*le.

Nox's power utterly eclipses Ventress', even by the time she fought Revan and Revan was able to toss her around as well as the Warrior, Hunter and Agent.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The only thing you have proven is that they were bigger individually than the obelisks were individually; not that they weigh more. I'm also assuming that the longer the battle lasts, the more Revan dropped, which would depend on how good the player is and how quickly he finishes the fight, correct? Once again, very little is known about the feat, other than he dropped some meteors.

Furthermore, Dooku lifted them all at once, very easily.

Big rocks weigh more than little rocks, derp. Plus meteors are frequently made up of metal as well as rock.

Your assumption is wrong btw. Revan does the attack for a set amount of time before going back to conventional attacks, it doesn't matter how "good" you are to determine how long he does it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well Revan didn't throw them from what I seen. He dropped them one at a time, maybe two at a time at most. However, he didn't drop more than a dozen at a time. Dooku casually lifting a dozen of heavy objects high in the air, against the force of gravity is more impressive.

No man, he threw them. He ripped them out of the thing that was holding them up and tossed them at the ground at blinding speed. The force needed to accelerate objects as large and undoubtedly heavy as those is huge, as FreshestSlice said. And as I said, it takes far more force to throw an object than it does to just lift it. And it would have to be more than two at a time imo. Which doesn't matter since throwing them one after the other would still take the same amount of power, surely. Dooku lifting those obalisks that undoubtedly weigh less than the meteors doesn't compare.


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Ok, they're powerful so that means their TK are greater than Ventress', who has directly overpowered both Anakin and Obi Wan at the same time. Of course you could argue it was a one off feat due to her rage enhanced state, while I can't say that Revan force pushing two force users was under the same circumstance, because, once again, we don't know the circumstance surrounding that feat, other than he does it, do we?

Also, does Revan directly grip them then throw them around, or did he just use a powerful force push to knock them off balance (which is different than directly overpowering them the way Dooku does Ventress), because Ventress has done that to Anakin several times?

I didn't say their TK was greater than Ventresses by there's two of them. No he doesn't do it under rage. Ventress choking them proves nothing for Dooku since that's a feat even he can't do. If she was in such a state against him he wouldn't dominate her with TK, right?

He Force Pulls the entire team close to him them unleashes a Force Storm on the area. And he uses a Force Wave to push everyone away from him at times too.


Probably not going to reply again unless you seriously write a hell of a lot less. This debate isn't worth the effort.