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This is dedicated to my friend Emperordmb who is probably ripping his hair because he's undecided on who would win LOL.

Two powerful jedi battle master that were thought to be on the same level as Bane both failed.

the battle takes place on Byss.

Which blademaster wins? who is the superior duelist?

Raskta SLAUGHTERHOUSE because Kassym is an incompetent stooge

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
This is dedicated to my friend Emperordmb who is probably ripping his hair because he's undecided on who would win LOL.

Two powerful jedi battle master that were thought to be on the same level as Bane both failed.

the battle takes place on Byss.

Which blademaster wins? who is the superior duelist?

ridiculously good fight.. but i'm taking Ka'sim, since it is sabers only. He was dominating Bane with his preferred lightsaber style until Bane defeated him with the force. Lsu was beating Bane as well, but not nearly as convincingly. (Better Bane too though.)

He sucked badly enough to die to a trainee lol. Raskta's feats are farrr better, including slashing Bane's weak ass six times before he reached her, disappearing and attacking Bane from all angles, killing as many Sith as the thought bomb, and turning her saber fast enough to make a blur. If baldy wasnt wearing his PIS armor he wouldve been dropped by Raskta. Kassem had multiple advantages and still lost. Raskta is faster and more skilled

This fight should be quite even actually. Speedwise they should be similarly matched with Kas'im outpacing POD Bane, and Lsu matching ROT Bane's speed with the battle meditation tilting the scales in her favor.

As far as versatility and breadth of skill go, both possess a mastery of many or all forms of lightsaber combat, as well as great familiarity with various lightsaber variants, so it's not likely either could outclass the other through versatility or unfamiliar techniques or weapons.

Here's where skill comes in. Both have been described as being the greatest duelist of their respective orders. Kas'im has a greater accolade in the form of a statement that says Kas'im was "the greatest living swordsman in the galaxy. Maybe the greatest swordsman ever." Given the multiple points of views used in that chapter, the narrator could be argued as having an omniscient perspective, and Drew Karpyshyn stated that whether or not that quote was from an omniscient narrator or Bane's opinion is up for debate. This means that this quote is either a canon statement, or a view Bane held despite reading numerous exaggerated accounts of ancient Sith Lords and their feats. Either way this accolade is extremely impressive and greater than any Lsu has.

Lsu on the other hand has her Echani abilities, which include an intimate familiarity with her opponent's moves, granting her a form of tactical foresight, and an advanced skill in hand to hand combat.

This is in all honesty, a very close match to call, and I may have to do a little more thinking before I can attribute the win to either of these duelists. But one thing is for sure, this would be one long and spectacular duel.

Kaseam isnt on her tier, lol. He lost to trainee Bane multiple advantages; unlike Lsu who basically wouldve killed Bane. Try again

Originally posted by carthage
Kaseam isnt on her tier, lol. He lost to trainee Bane multiple advantages; unlike Lsu who basically wouldve killed Bane. Try again
Kas'im lost to Bane because of Bane's force abilities, not Bane's saber prowess. And I find it extremely unlikely that Lsu would fare any better than Kas'im against the wave that brought down the Temple of the ancients.

And the battle meditation counts as an advantage for Lsu as well.

She still has the better feat of killing more Sith, and the fact Kasayeam is utterly incompetent. For all of his supposed skill he did terribly against Bane. Bane was less skilled, had less training, and was weaker overall. The fact Kasayeam didnt do better and or kill him outright proves hes a shit duelist

Originally posted by carthage
She still has the better feat of killing more Sith, and the fact Kasayeam is utterly incompetent. For all of his supposed skill he did terribly against Bane. Bane was less skilled, had less training, and was weaker overall. The fact Kasayeam didnt do better and or kill him outright proves hes a shit duelist
I have explained numerous times that Kas'im is a very skilled duelist, and nobody but you seems to dispute that fact. The fact that you are incapable of grasping something so simple, or even grasping how the **** to spell his name right leaves me wondering if you are in fact completely retarded, or just a troll. I think it may be a little bit of both.

Nothing indicates he is skilled at all other than Banes unsubstantiated opinion. Knowing seven forms doesnt make him a good duelist, he lacks feats that compare to Raskta's, and he did worse than she did against weak Bane. Raskta is simply better, also given the fact groupthink is strong here, so what if others think Kaseem is good?

Originally posted by carthage
Nothing indicates he is skilled at all other than Banes unsubstantiated opinion.
Drew said it's up for debate whether or not that was Bane's opinion or an omniscient statement, but even if it was Bane's opinion, it is substantiated by the amount of time Bane spent reading up on exaggerated accounts of the feats of ancient Sith as well as Bane's own intelligence, and Lord Kaan's admittance that Kas'im is the greatest duelist in his order.

Kas'im and Bane are also far above and superior to Sirak, who could blend several forms into sequences and was ambidexterous and hailed by the other apprentices as "invincible, untouchable, and the perfect being."

Originally posted by carthage
Knowing seven forms doesnt make him a good duelist,
Perfecting every move of every form for decades after beating his master, who was a very skilled duelist, as well as being laughably above one who stomped a duelist of Sirak's caliber does mark him as an extremely good duelist.

Originally posted by carthage
he lacks feats that compare to Raskta's, and he did worse than she did against weak Bane.
Kas'im was winning the saber duel. He only lost when Bane used a force wave, something I think Lsu would be ****ed over by as well.

By "weak Bane", do you mean Bane who had just been promoted to the Sith Council, who would've stomped any other Sith alive at the time?

Originally posted by carthage
so what if others think Kaseem is good?
When there's an overwhelming amount of support for Kas'im being a great duelist, do you never consider that you may be wrong when you say he's absolute shit? Especially when you can't even spell his ****ing name right.

Ka'sim did better than Lsu against Bane. Your argument should be that Bane was weaker.

I would counter that by saying Lsu was augmented by BM.

Not a lot of people could give Orbalisk Bane a tough fight. That armor was a tad ridiculous. He had the strength and speed of Captain America with the force power of maybe sidious or yoda, mixed with the regenerative ability of Wolverine. He was a bad mofo.

No he didn't he was incompetent and sucked badly enough to lose when:

1. He had superior training, was more, skilled, and had trained with Bane and knew all of his sequences.

2.Had the trump card of knowing Jar kai

3.Was drawing on a nexus just as much as Bane was for his speed.

Lsu fought a more "powerful" version as weak Bane had armor that made most of her attacks void. He was faster, had an amp, and was invulnerable. Yet she still would've killed him before he even met her head on with six slashes, evaded his blows, and matched his speed. Kasyeam would've been wtfpwned by Orbalisk Bane. Bane's invulnerability, speed, and amp >> Raskta's battle med from a featless Jedi




Bane's opinion is baseless. He didn't know every duelist in the galaxy, the quote is unsubstantiated as Kaseayam is featless outside of Bane's duel, and also lol @ comparing Kasayeam's quote to the quotes of Ancient Sith. Most other ancient Sith lords i,e Kun, Revan, etc have at more feats than an inside quote. Try again



You're right they're all featless.



LOLNOPE it indicates technical proficiency, not being a "skilled duelist". Kasaem never dueled anyone apart from Bane, there is no evidence he is a skilled duelist to back that claim up. Also Bane got his ass kicked twice by that other guy and Sirrak. He only beat him once, in fact Bane has a history of getting his ass kicked in duels from dying to his weak apprentice, to Sirrak, to those mercenaries. LOL



Kasyaeam was struggling, if he was as skilled as you and the other EU cultists claim he would've beaten him sooner. He had multiple advantages, failed, and proved he sucks. Try again.



Bane lived in an era of weak Sith. That's why he had to destroy Kaan's order because he even admitted they were weak in the darkside. The fact that Bane is strongest midst a bunch of pussies in Kaan's group makes that claim laughable. Bane would get destroyed by any other Dark lord

Originally posted by truejedi
Not a lot of people could give Orbalisk Bane a tough fight. That armor was a tad ridiculous. He had the strength and speed of Captain America with the force power of maybe sidious or yoda, mixed with the regenerative ability of Wolverine. He was a bad mofo.

Orbalisk Bane isn't strong because of his own skill, its the amp and the invulnerability that made Bane strong. Bane on his own sucks really badly in DOE.

I am not. Emperor just needs to lose another argument again, lol.

Carthage you are honestly not worth my time anymore.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Carthage you are honestly not worth my time anymore.

Your concession is accepted.

Originally posted by carthage
Your concession is accepted.
It is not a concession. I have explained this shit to you numerous times using facts, quotes, and logic, but you have responded every time with trolling, bias, backwards logic, faulty lines of thought, and blatant disregard for the accolades of those you hate.

I have spent several hours of my life trying to explain the simplest shit to you, but you refuse to take it in, and continue to waste my time. You are a joke, PT****thewinebottle is your only friend on here, and I am done with you. Welcome to my ignore list buddy.

None of what you said is logical though. You have no feats that back up anything for Kaseyeama as "being a great duelist", you've got no examples of Bane beating anyone out of his own skill, and you keep repeating the same stuff because you can't provide any of the requisite proof. I welcome being on your ignore list, it just proves you are not a good debater and are a fanboy like the rest of the EU crowd here.

Also lol @ me being biased for asking for simple feats.

Originally posted by CaptainRexfan
Woah! U better not ignore me
At this point I would gladly take 12 PTforthewins over 1 Carthage.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
At this point I would gladly take 12 PTforthewins over 1 Carthage.

Not my fault you can't respond to basic requests for feats instead of stupid In universe quotes regarding a character. I guess asking for feats makes me a biased troll. LOl

Originally posted by carthage
None of what you said is logical though. You have no feats that back up anything for Kaseyeama as "being a great duelist", you've got no examples of Bane beating anyone out of his own skill, and you keep repeating the same stuff because you can't provide any of the requisite proof. I welcome being on your ignore list, it just proves you are not a good debater and are a fanboy like the rest of the EU crowd here.

Also lol @ me being biased for asking for simple feats.
I have provided you with several canon quotes that say that the characters you hate are extremely powerful, yet you blatantly disregard them and continue to write off these characters as weak. You use backwards and twisted logic to write them off as weak that you don't apply to any other character.

Hell even when you tried to help Newguy1 in a debate, he pointed out that you are unreasonable, and he's not even an EU fanboy.

I'm done with you, you are a prick, goodbye.

Feats >"cannon" quotes that are meaningless without feats to back them up

Your getting mad over a simple request for basic feats/fights that occur off nexus to provide an adequate summary of your characters power. You failed to provide them, so you lose. Kind of funny your complaining to me about being "Reasonable", when you have an odd fixation on your character to the point of fanaticism.

Originally posted by carthage
Feats >"cannon" quotes that are meaningless without feats to back them up
You have yet to disprove these canon quotes.

Originally posted by carthage
Your getting mad over a simple request for basic feats/fights that occur off nexus to provide an adequate summary of your characters power. You failed to provide them, so you lose.
I'm getting mad because you continue to debate with twisted logic, and failure to recognize canon when it does not suit your own ends.

Originally posted by carthage
Kind of funny your complaining to me about being "Reasonable", when you have an odd fixation on your character to the point of fanaticism.
Your obsession with randomly bringing up Bane/Zannah/Vitiate/Revan just to pointlessly shit on them certainly counts as an odd fixation.

Like I said if Kasayeama had feats that put him above Raskta and or any other character off nexus, then we simply wouldn't be having this discussion. Neph willingly disavows uperior feats in favor of his arguments for TOR characters all the time, I never see you calling him out. With regards to quotes I have never denied Bane was powerful, Vitiate was powerful, or Revan was they're simply not as strong as other Sith due to lack of showings off nexus and or other factors that render analysis difficult. I've even got Bane as superior to both those characters in question, but again that's due to what Bane has accomplished off nexus.



Only because its fun to watch the fanboys so fervently defend their characters.

Originally posted by carthage
Orbalisk Bane isn't strong because of his own skill, its the amp and the invulnerability that made Bane strong. Bane on his own sucks really badly in DOE.

I don't recall saying it WASN'T because of the armor. Changes nothing about what I said about him. I do remember Bane didn't suck very badly at all in POD.

Ehh he was ok though most of his showings are arguably on nexuses, his frying of Qordis and reaching into the thought bomb and not being affected are his best feats imo. Nothing on Korriban, Lehon, really count in my opinion.

Originally posted by carthage
Like I said if Kasayeama had feats that put him above Raskta and or any other character off nexus, then we simply wouldn't be having this discussion. Neph willingly disavows uperior feats in favor of his arguments for TOR characters all the time, I never see you calling him out.
While others may be biased, very few are as blatantly clouded by bias as you are. Neph for example uses logic and reasoning that actually makes some sense and doesn't directly fly in the face of canon quotes.

More importantly, and I can't stress how key this is... Neph is not a dick. Neph is a civil debater, while you do a lot of shit for the sole purpose of pissing people off.

Originally posted by carthage
With regards to quotes I have never denied Bane was powerful, Vitiate was powerful, or Revan was they're simply not as strong as other Sith due to lack of showings off nexus and or other factors that render analysis difficult. I've even got Bane as superior to both those characters in question, but again that's due to what Bane has accomplished off nexus.
You have called all of them weak and shit numerous times.

Originally posted by carthage
No he didn't he was incompetent and sucked badly enough to lose when:

How do you figure he lost? sabers only. He kicked Bane's ass with sabers. incompetent? sucked badly? what? That isn't a very defensible position.




Really, everything about this one could be said about Bane instead. Bane was trained by Ka'sim, perhaps the greatest swordsman the galaxy had ever seen. Who was Ka'sim trained by? Sounds like Bane had superior training.



I mean, he knew Jar Kai, it's not really an unfair advantage, it's an advantage. I don't see how this means "he sucked"



Has nothing to do with anything. Clearly not an advantage for either side. You were the one who claimed Bane was at a disadvantage.

For all of his supposed skill, faster striking speed, the fact he trained him and knew his sequences, and the fact he held back Jar kai and didn't kill him as fast as he should've proves he's not very good. I mean he was essentially losing to a trainee, that and for all of those positives in his favor he can't close a victory?! Give me a break, and this is Bane whose been training for a few months max who has no other saber feats to compare to a "master duelist". There is a huge discrepancy between being a "master duelist", and struggling with a trainee.



It cannot be emphasized enough Bane has no basis for that claim. Bane had been trained for a few months, didn't know any other duelists in any other camp, or even know much about saber combat as he'd later learn. Raskta in contrast literally would've killed Bane before he even got to her-Kasayeama with a nexus benefiting his speed failed to take POD Bane out. Raskta fought a much more difficult battle, and made Bane look like a ***** who needed armor to protect him




It was an advantage because Bane didn't know how to counteract it, and even then with it Kaseayeama still failed to close in and kill Bane. He isn't skilled enough evidently to defeat his trainee who he knows virtually everything about in terms of saber style. Need I repeat that to let it sink in?




It has everything to do with it considering Bane has no showings off nexus to prove he was as powerful as his feats suggest when he's wearing Orbalisks or on Lehon or Korriban to boost his force abilities. Kaseeema can hurl 20 strikes per second, Bane can react to it and move in a blur, but can barely deflect raindrops in DOE? Bane was relying on it as was Kasayeem, Kasayeem just couldn't kill Bane because he was incompetent for the many reasons I listed. Bane only looked good because he had a nexus to kill Kasyeeem with

Originally posted by carthage
Bane can react to it and move in a blur, but can barely deflect raindrops in DOE?

Wait. Wait. Wait. Did you just refer to the greatest lightsaber feat in the mythos like it was a NEGATIVE thing? A poor showing? Really? I'm sorry, I was thinking up a response to your other post while I was reading it, but I got really distracted by the way you used this feat in a sentence. What did you actually mean by this?

Point of information, at the beginning of ROT Bane considered the raindrop feat impossible while on a nexus

Originally posted by truejedi
Wait. Wait. Wait. Did you just refer to the greatest lightsaber feat in the mythos like it was a NEGATIVE thing? A poor showing? Really? I'm sorry, I was thinking up a response to your other post while I was reading it, but I got really distracted by the way you used this feat in a sentence. What did you actually mean by this?

Its his best showing which is relatively commonplace among other Sith. It isn't that impressive considering rain is slower moving than blaster bolts, and or feats from other Sith in general surpass it. I'm not sure why its lauded so much. Also lol @ it being the greatest lightsaber feat. Anakin moved his saber so fast on the invisible hand it blinded Dooku with blue light, there are tons of other examples I can use to make Bane's rain feat look weak in comparison

RN did a statistical analysis once of the number of cubic feet a light-saber would have to cover per second in order to keep a single raindrop from touching a human sized shape in an average rainstorm. It was as insane a number as Karen Traviss's number of stormtroopers. There is nothing else in the mythos that comes close. "Invisible fast" IS repeated over and over, it's true, but invisible fast wouldn't even begin to cover the speed necessary for what he was doing.

Originally posted by truejedi
RN did a statistical analysis once of the number of cubic feet a light-saber would have to cover per second in order to keep a single raindrop from touching a human sized shape in an average rainstorm. It was as insane a number as Karen Traviss's number of stormtroopers. There is nothing else in the mythos that comes close. "Invisible fast" IS repeated over and over, it's true, but invisible fast wouldn't even begin to cover the speed necessary for what he was doing.
Especially since he moved invisibly fast in POD, but considered the raindrop feat impossible at the beginning of ROT

Glad we all agree Raskta wins.

In all honesty, feels like a toss-up. Top Jedi vs. Top Sith of their age.

Not really. Kasyeem had multiple advantage and fought a weaker Bane, whereas, Raskta had the odds stacked against her and even her BM doesn't stack up against the tons of advantages weakling Bane had

odds stacked against her? 5 on 2?

Originally posted by truejedi
odds stacked against her? 5 on 2?

Raskta did all of the fighting on her own, none of the other fighters have any feats as solid as hers. Also none of them even tried to match Bane as she did, Farfalla even admitted his inferiority to her in sabers. Sounds like a good team when only one guy is doing any real difference (battle med), but even then that did nothing as Bane had multiple advantages going into the fight.