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Force, sabers, all out

lolwut? Team 2.

Team 1 Revan is too strong in the force, he could likely solo all three Sith

nope

Malak solo's.

Revan hurled meteors and is heart of the force. Malak can probably handle Malgus and Krayt at the same time though

Team 2. Those 3 are just too much of a force.

Team 1 in a close battle.

Finally someone gets it.

Team two.
Malgus and Revan are relatively equals.
Though Shan or Malak probably can't handle the rest.

Revan and Malak would be a better team than anyone on team two. They would work together and take take down their components while their components try to work solo.

Revan and Malak aren't like Skywalker/Kenobi.
They are more like: strategist/combatant.
Normally, Revan lead the battle from his command ship as Malak led the forces.
They rarely were both in combat together.

Malak can easily handle Krayt or Kun.

Come on really. So have Obi and Anakin at times. The statement is ridiculous. So we are to assume they rarely fought together before Revan lead battles.

Provide some battles Revan actually participated in the ground battles.
He rarely ever, mainly because he was better at being an insane tactician from afar.
The only battle I can recognize them fighting in together was when they discovered the Rakata.

For some reason, and I can't quite put my finger on it... I feel like this thread was meant to spite Ant.

Of course.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Provide some battles Revan actually participated in the ground battles.
He rarely ever, mainly because he was better at being an insane tactician from afar.
The only battle I can recognize them fighting in together was when they discovered the Rakata.

Provide ones that he did not participate on the ground. Are there not quotes stating they both fought together during the Mandalorian Wars?

Originally posted by Kotor3
Provide ones that he did not participate on the ground. Are there not quotes stating they both fought together during the Mandalorian Wars?


Which meant they were spearheading the Republic defense, not necessarily with both on the front lines.

Revan was such an insane tactician and masterful combatant he didn't need to go to the frontlines and fight

Originally posted by Kotor3
Provide ones that he did not participate on the ground. Are there not quotes stating they both fought together during the Mandalorian Wars?
Just go to my Revan Respect Thread and scroll down to the "Tactical Ingenious" section. Revan was responsible mainly for his tactics during the war.
This is supported by TCWSE which states while some credit Revan's military genius for the victory, others point out Malak's skill on the forefront of every battlefield.
Seemingly, he only ever went into combat with the Echani and Mandalore himself. Malak is not stated to have been with him on either of these encounters.
Though however, he was confirmed to kill many Mandalorian war-droids, though it is not confirmed Malak was with him on these battles either.
It is rather silly to think the best two Jedi of the era to always be in the same battle together when countless other battles are occurring.

He was such a tactical genius, that he could tank Vitiates lightning as it baked his mask onto his face

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Just go to my Revan Respect Thread and scroll down to the "Tactical Ingenious" section. Revan was responsible mainly for his tactics during the war.
This is supported by TCWSE which states while some credit Revan's military genius for the victory, others point out Malak's skill on the forefront of every battlefield.
Seemingly, he only ever went into combat with the Echani and Mandalore himself. Malak is not stated to have been with him on either of these encounters.
Though however, he was confirmed to kill many Mandalorian war-droids, though it is not confirmed Malak was with him on these battles either.
It is rather silly to think the best two Jedi of the era to always be in the same battle together when countless other battles are occurring.

I have read your respect thread already. I really appreciate it because Revan is one of my favorite characters.

The clone wars are much more explored than the Mandalorian wars. Revan did not start off leading the republic in the Mandalorian war. Of course they did not fight side by side always during the war neither did Obi and Anakin however I find it silly to assume that Revan and Malak never did at all during the war.

Either way it does change that they know each other and their fighting styles and techniques better than anyone else on team two.

As soon as the Jedi joined, they were thrown to the forefront of command. That's pretty much how the Republic handles every crisis.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
As soon as the Jedi joined, they were thrown to the forefront of command. That's pretty much how the Republic handles every crisis.

If you want to assume that Revan never fought on the battle ground during the mandalorian feel free to do so.

Still does change the fact that they will most likely team up during this battle unlike anyone on team two.

Originally posted by Kotor3
If you want to assume that Revan never fought on the battle ground during the mandalorian feel free to do so.

Still does change the fact that they will most likely team up during this battle unlike anyone on team two.


I don't see Revan teaming up with the man who betrayed and tried to kill him. If Revan teams up with anyone, it would make more sense that hevteams with Satele (his descendant). That being said, Krayt teamed up with Luke Skywalker,a Jedi. If he can effectively work with the sworn enemy of the Sith, then he can do the same with 2 other Dark Lords.

Originally posted by Kotor3
If you want to assume that Revan never fought on the battle ground during the mandalorian feel free to do so.

I didn't say that. However, as more sources say that Revan fought more with his mind than with his saber, it's a much safer assumption to say that he did more of the former than the latter.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I didn't say that. However, as more sources say that Revan fought more with his mind than with his saber, it's a much safer assumption to say that he did more of the former than the latter.

It seem that you were implying the same as Ant that they never fought beside each other ever.

I agree with your statement.

Well, tbh, it's doubtful that they fought together a lot either. This is not the Clone Wars were almost every Jedi above a certain rank is general. Many of the Jedi who joined are Padawans, the Exile included. This is mainly Revan, Malak, and Meetra, all of whom are generals in a war that they come in losing. It's doubtful they would be together for the majority of a galactic war. Malak however, always looked to Revan as his idol, and they were best friends. They most likely knew much about each other.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
The Revan that led the Republic, alongside Malak, in the Mandalorian Wars died when the Leviathan's guns fired on his ship. Now, I agree that Revan wouldn't make it a 4 on 2, but if they were to team, I don't think they'd have the same chemistry that they had before.

You have a point. Still you have two people who trained and fought alongside each other. They would still have better chemistry then any two on Team 2. Due to the situation would mostly likely team up.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
They have no reason not to trust each other, for the duration of the fight. All 3 of them are Sith Lords, all 3 will realize the threat their opponents pose, and Krayt will recognize the need for some form of cohesion on their side. I see Krayt defeating Satele, Malgus defeating Malak, and Kun either defeating Revan or holding him off until one of the others is available to assist.
Good analysis.

My take is that as the battle started Revan would automatically come to the aid of Satele who would also assist him. Revan would then also do so for Malak who would see the need to coordinate with Revan and Satele.

Krayt, Malgus, and Kun would each go to take on an opponent individually. However, coming to the aid of any of their comrades would only occur if they felt they were in trouble.

This I believe would lead to an advantage for Team 1 who attacks would be more coordinated than Team 2. Team 2 may have more talent but less team play.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well, tbh, it's doubtful that they fought together a lot either. This is not the Clone Wars were almost every Jedi above a certain rank is general. Many of the Jedi who joined are Padawans, the Exile included. This is mainly Revan, Malak, and Meetra, all of whom are generals in a war that they come in losing. It's doubtful they would be together for the majority of a galactic war. Malak however, always looked to Revan as his idol, and they were best friends. They most likely knew much about each other.

This may be true but it was my understanding that Revan had to gain supporters and really did not take a lead role until he started the Revanchist movement. Which was not immediately. Perhaps I need to read up on the this again.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Good analysis.

My take is that as the battle started Revan would automatically come to the aid of Satele who would also assist him. Revan would then also do so for Malak who would see the need to coordinate with Revan and Satele.

Krayt, Malgus, and Kun would each go to take on an opponent individually. However, coming to the aid of any of their comrades would only occur if they felt they were in trouble.

This I believe would lead to an advantage for Team 1 who attacks would be more coordinated than Team 2. Team 2 may have more talent but less team play.

I can see that as a possibility, but remember, Malgus will know who all 3 members of Team 1 are, and Revan, Satele, and Malak should be familiar with Kun's reputation. Satele will remember Malgus, as well. Krayt will be the dark horse in this contest, but it's possible he learned of Revan, Malak, and Kun from Vergere.

I can see Malgus and Krayt teaming up against Revan and Satele, while Kun takes down Malak. I believe Kun would take down Malak first (I see a Krayt/Satele fight as pretty close) and then assist with the familial pair. Alternatively, Kun and Malgus could team up (due to Malgus sensing they are the strongest member on their team) against Revan and Malak, with Krayt taking on Satele. In that scenario, I again think Malak would be the first to fall, leading to Revan's defeat. Even if Satele manages to overcome Krayt, which is possible, I doubt it would happen before Malak falls, leaving Revan outnumbered against two opponents who rival him in both Force power and dueling ability. It would be a good fight, but I'm still siding with Team 2.

Originally posted by Kotor3
This may be true but it was my understanding that Revan had to gain supporters and really did not take a lead role until he started the Revanchist movement. Which was not immediately. Perhaps I need to read up on the this again.
Unless Revan and Malak acted and worked exactly the same during the entire war, what they did before wouldn't matter.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
That being said, Krayt teamed up with Luke Skywalker,a Jedi. If he can effectively work with the sworn enemy of the Sith
To be fair though, that was to stop Abeloth, who is perhaps the greatest threat the Galaxy has ever known. Hell, even the Son and Daughter, the most powerful practitioners of the dark side and light side respectively, teamed up to stop Abeloth.

This is hardly the same situation.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
To be fair though, that was to stop Abeloth, who is perhaps the greatest threat the Galaxy has ever known. Hell, even the Son and Daughter, the most powerful practitioners of the dark side and light side respectively, teamed up to stop Abeloth.

This is hardly the same situation.


You're right, it's not the same situation, but it still shows that Krayt would be open to teaming up, especially against a perceived greater threat. I'm not saying they would definately team up, because I don't think Revan would team up with Malak.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
I can see that as a possibility, but remember, Malgus will know who all 3 members of Team 1 are, and Revan, Satele, and Malak should be familiar with Kun's reputation. Satele will remember Malgus, as well. Krayt will be the dark horse in this contest, but it's possible he learned of Revan, Malak, and Kun from Vergere.

I can see Malgus and Krayt teaming up against Revan and Satele, while Kun takes down Malak. I believe Kun would take down Malak first (I see a Krayt/Satele fight as pretty close) and then assist with the familial pair. Alternatively, Kun and Malgus could team up (due to Malgus sensing they are the strongest member on their team) against Revan and Malak, with Krayt taking on Satele. In that scenario, I again think Malak would be the first to fall, leading to Revan's defeat. Even if Satele manages to overcome Krayt, which is possible, I doubt it would happen before Malak falls, leaving Revan outnumbered against two opponents who rival him in both Force power and dueling ability. It would be a good fight, but I'm still siding with Team 2.

I would have to agree with your scenarios if they were to occur.

Like you stated above due to the knowledge the combatants have of each other I see it more of playing out this way:
Revan would take on Kun since he would view him as the highest threat. Satele would take on Malgus since she has prior knowledge of fighting him. This would leave Malak to face Krayt.

Malgus would want to fight Revan since that would be an honor to do so and would probably try to engage him one on one. However, Revan is not going to allow Satele to engage Kun one on one.

The key to this battle is whether team 2 can keep the battle to a one on one. If not and Team 1 starts including teamwork then I believe the fight would lean more towards Team 1.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I would have to agree with your scenarios if they were to occur.

Like you stated above due to the knowledge the combatants have of each other I see it more of playing out this way:
Revan would take on Kun since he would view him as the highest threat. Satele would take on Malgus since she has prior knowledge of fighting him. This would leave Malak to face Krayt.

Malgus would want to fight Revan since that would be an honor to do so and would probably try to engage him one on one. However, Revan is not going to allow Satele to engage Kun one on one.

The key to this battle is whether team 2 can keep the battle to a one on one. If not and Team 1 starts including teamwork then I believe the fight would lean more towards Team 1.


So Revan/Satele vs Kun/Malgus, with Krayt left to take on Malak? Now that would be an interesting scenario. Definately more even, but I see Satele as the weak link in that team-up. There are 2 possibilities to that set up, that I can see:


1) Satele falls first or Krayt defeats Malak: this would make it a 3v2 fight, where either Kun or Malgus could break off and assist Krayt, while the other engages Revan. If Krayt defeated Malak, then he could jump in and pressure Satele, leading to her death. Then all 3 would gang up on Revan. Team 2 wins

2) Malak manages to defeat Krayt before Satele falls: Malak rejoins the bigger brawl and his addition turns the tide in Team 1's favor. Team 1 wins.

It doesn't even matter if they would realistically team up anyways, as a team versus match pretty much implies that they are already, you know, teamed up.

This is a pointless argument to be had, tbh.

How the hell would Malak defeat Krayt? Lol.

Malgus has proven that he can defeat Satele, and even Ant admitted that Malgus is a challenge for Revan. Kun is an equal duelist in terms of feats and capabilities to Malgus, he can likely press and eventually defeat Satele after an exchange. Malak isn't lasting long against Krayt, and Revan can at best stalemate Malgus until Krayt or Kun come to aid him in finishing him off

Team 2 should take this with mid difficulty.

^ My thoughts exactly.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Definately more even, but I see Satele as the weak link in that team-up.

Naw, Malak's the weak link. Satele or Krayt would comfortably take him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
^ My thoughts exactly.



Naw, Malak's the weak link. Satele or Krayt would comfortably take him.


I meant that I saw Satele as the weak link in the Revan/Satele vs Kun/Malgus scenario kotor3 brought up. In the overall fight, I agree Malak is the weakest.

Satele could hold Kun off imo, but as Kun and Malgus are very close in terms of skill the result would be similar to how she'd lose against Malgus

Revan and Malgus can directly stalemate eachother for a period.
That leaves Shan and Malak to overcome Malgus and Krayt. Not happening.
While amped Malak can probably best Shan, I doubt he can overcome Kun or Krayt.

Shan would beat Star Forge Malak.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
So Revan/Satele vs Kun/Malgus, with Krayt left to take on Malak? Now that would be an interesting scenario. Definately more even, but I see Satele as the weak link in that team-up. There are 2 possibilities to that set up, that I can see:


1) Satele falls first or Krayt defeats Malak: this would make it a 3v2 fight, where either Kun or Malgus could break off and assist Krayt, while the other engages Revan. If Krayt defeated Malak, then he could jump in and pressure Satele, leading to her death. Then all 3 would gang up on Revan. Team 2 wins

2) Malak manages to defeat Krayt before Satele falls: Malak rejoins the bigger brawl and his addition turns the tide in Team 1's favor. Team 1 wins.

Good scenarios. I see Team 2 winning if they can keep it as a one on one battle between each individual. Conflicts I see on Team 2. Both Kun and Malgus would want to fight Revan. One Kun would sense that Revan is the strongest and Malgus would feel it as an honor to battle Revan. Not sure about Krayt.

So I do not Kun and Malgus working together that well. While I do see Revan and Satele working together much better. You may have more power on team 2 but that is not always the deciding factor in a battle.

I definitely see Team 1 winning if they starting working together immediately.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Good scenarios. I see Team 2 winning if they can keep it as a one on one battle between each individual. Conflicts I see on Team 2. Both Kun and Malgus would want to fight Revan. One Kun would sense that Revan is the strongest and Malgus would feel it as an honor to battle Revan. Not sure about Krayt.

So I do not Kun and Malgus working together that well. While I do see Revan and Satele working together much better. You may have more power on team 2 but that is not always the deciding factor in a battle.

I definitely see Team 1 winning if they starting working together immediately.


I think that's where we differ. I don't see them teaming up. Instead, I believe it's just going to be 3 1v1 matchups.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
I think that's where we differ. I don't see them teaming up. Instead, I believe it's just going to be 3 1v1 matchups.

if that occurs then Team 2 wins.

For teaming up, I doubt Satele would have a problem working with her own ancestor. Malak and Revan have some friction, though.


Though Krayt being One Sith and Malgus being part of a military, I don't see much problem joining up there. Kun seems the odd one out there.

Originally posted by Q99
For teaming up, I doubt Satele would have a problem working with her own ancestor. Malak and Revan have some friction, though.


Though Krayt being One Sith and Malgus being part of a military, I don't see much problem joining up there. Kun seems the odd one out there.


Kun's reputation could help out there. I think Malgus would work with him, knowing who he was and what he almost accomplished.

Revan could neutralize Krayt's touch of death by using oneness with the force to create a nuclear explosion aoe to keep him away. Revan could use force absorb to neutralize Exar Kun's lasers, and for Malgus he could just use force lightning to incinerate him after he whittles him down.

His team mates would act as decoys to give him time to pull off his force abilities.

Revan can't just spam force in balance, and his lightning hasn't shown enough potency to disintegrate.

It has killed Rancors though.

If Revan knows Force in Balance, then does that mean he's classified as a Sage in game?

Originally posted by realslimshady25
he has more force feats then saber feats so yeah probably.


Huh. I never really looked at him as anything short of a warrior. More of a Guardian than a Consular (to use the KOTOR designations). Powerful in the Force, but equally adept in melee combat, like Kun.

You are seriously asking PT, a guy who never played KotOR, on knowledge concerning Revan?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You are seriously asking PT, a guy who never played KotOR, on knowledge concerning Revan?


Nope. I'm asking everyone, and he was the first person to respond. You very knowledgeable on Revan, what's your opinion?

Both Ant and I have our respective views on Revan's skills as a duelist. Both of our works compliment eachother quite nicely, aside from the force based precognition vs tactical foresight thing that we disagree on.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Both Ant and I have our respective views on Revan's skills as a duelist. Both of our works compliment eachother quite nicely, aside from the force based precognition vs tactical foresight thing that we disagree on.


True. You both know your stuff, concerning Revan. My question was more from an in-game standpoint, which PT was answering, rather than an overall assessment. Since that's been brought up, though, where would you classify him?

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
True. You both know your stuff, concerning Revan. My question was more from an in-game standpoint, which PT was answering, rather than an overall assessment. Since that's been brought up, though, where would you classify him?
I'm not a Revan expert as much as I am an expert on analyzing fighting styles in Star Wars.

Really I think your question would be better directed at Ant, the guy who seems to know more about Revan than anyone else with the exception of Drew Karpyshyn.

I know a decent amount about Revan, but this just kind of sparked my curiosity to get more info. If Ant wants to respond, that would be great. Otherwise, I'll get back to the thread. I'm still sticking with Team 2 in this fight.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
I know a decent amount about Revan, but this just kind of sparked my curiosity to get more info. If Ant wants to respond, that would be great. Otherwise, I'll get back to the thread. I'm still sticking with Team 2 in this fight.
Yeah because I'm pretty sure Carthage set this up as a spite thread in team two's favor.

It would only be spite if Darth Bane were included.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah because I'm pretty sure Carthage set this up as a spite thread in team two's favor.


If Malak were replaced with someone like Bane, Plagueis, or even Ulic Qel-Droma, then the match would be much closer.

Yeah, I don't know why I said they are a kind of Sentinel. I'm pretty tired though. But also, doesn't change the point at all.

And the fact that Jedi Sages do Telekinesis and Heal does not mean others can't.
Like imagine how screwed up that would be then with virtually no PT character being able to do TK.

Yeah. The absolute limits of gameplay archetypes does not constitue absolute limits in actual canon.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yeah, I don't know why I said they are a kind of Sentinel.
Like imagine how screwed up that would be then with virtually no PT character being able to do TK.


So, a bunch of Corran Horns?

Also Nejaa Halcyon was during the Clone Wars, so there was at least 1 Jedi who couldn't do any TK, lol.

Originally posted by realslimshady25
Nejja was pwned by one of Dooku's dark acolytes


Only because he exploited Nejaa's inability to use TK. Still, Nejaa aborbed all of the energy from Nikkos Tyris' lightsaber and conjured a fist of energy, which broke every bone in Tyris' body on impact. So, Halcyon still went out like a bad@ss.

Yea, I don't really call a mutual kill a 'pwning.' Nejaa was pretty badass, Nikkos seems high-end for a dark acolyte.