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FORCE, SABERS, ALL OUT

Plagueis

I'd go with Plagueis. Zannah can hold him off for a bit though.

Zannah wins.

Her tendrils will cut Plagueis in half.

The guy in the middle is him, he just can't draw and he wants to look like Darth Bandon

You think so?

Emperor is your five year old brother?

It all makes sense now

Carthage, Tell the voices in your head I said "hi"

I was talking to PT before he was banned (again).

Zannah has a chance with her sorcery, I think. I'd need to see something indicating he could resist her mental assault otherwise.

No one ever deceived him mentally other than Sidious, he was even able to deceive his own master in spite of Tenebrous attempting to probe hismind. Zannah isn't even remotely on the same tier as Tenebrous or TPM Sidious.

So..... nothing then?

Nothing proves she can even try to dominate him mentally, given her feats with mental probings are inferior to Sidious's.

So I'm inclined to disagree, unless you are going to bloviate about how Zannah is as good as Tpm Sidious. Lol

Nothing then. Cool.

Bane has superior mental resistance and willpower to Plagueis and he almost succumbed to Zannah's sorcery. You're not convincing me that Plagueis can equal Bane's efforts.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane has superior mental resistance and willpower to Plagueis

Prove it.

Bane laughed off Kaan's mental abilities and whatever you think about Kaan, the dude was able to enthrall dozens of Sith Lords at once. And Banes willpower is bordering on insanity, he casually walked around being eaten alive for 10 years. He described Zannah's mental attack as having his brain carved up by a million burning shards and he was barely phased by it. Zannah's tentacle utterly eclipsed all other pain he'd experience and he still managed to power through it.

And yet Bane still lost to Zannah in a duel of pure willpower.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane laughed off Kaan's mental abilities and whatever you think about Kaan, the dude was able to enthrall dozens of Sith Lords at once. And Banes willpower is bordering on insanity, he casually walked around being eaten alive for 10 years. He described Zannah's mental attack as having his brain carved up by a million burning shards and he was barely phased by it. Zannah's tentacle utterly eclipsed all other pain he'd experience and he still managed to power through it.

So?

I'm asking you to prove your claim that Bane has superior mental resistance and willpower to Plagueis.

Which is why I'm asking for examples of Plagueis' mental resistance and willpower so I can compare them. Since I've received nothing, I'm defaulting to Bane.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Which is why I'm asking for examples of Plagueis' mental resistance and willpower so I can compare them. Since I've received nothing, I'm defaulting to Bane.

So, in other words, characters w/ feats are "superior" to characters w/o feats?

Plagueis probably has the willpower to overcome Zannah's illusions with great difficulty. He did impose his will on the midichlorians.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
So, in other words, characters w/ feats are "superior" to characters w/o feats?

In regards to specific abilities, and without a significant power differential that would suggest that even without feats its apparent person A > person B.

In this case, when we have two similarly powerful individuals as Plagueis and Bane and one of them has demonstrated immense ability in one area while the other hasn't demonstrated anything in the same area, it's only natural to conclude an advantage to the one with demonstrated exceptional power in that area. And since Zannah was capable of pushing even one as exceptional in this area as Bane, its also a natural conclusion that Plagueis may not edge out a success. I'm sure that Plagueis' mental attributes are very impressive, but without any indication of him being at the top in this area, I'm not sure I see him surviving.

Although, "willpower" is more of a personality trait than a feat.

I reserve the right to retract the above statement at any point if I so desire though. However, historically I have mostly favored those with feats over similarly powerful adepts without them, as I'm sure you know.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In regards to specific abilities, and without a significant power differential that would suggest that even without feats its apparent person A > person B.

In this case, when we have two similarly powerful individuals as Plagueis and Bane and one of them has demonstrated immense ability in one area while the other hasn't demonstrated anything in the same area, it's only natural to conclude an advantage to the one with demonstrated exceptional power in that area. And since Zannah was capable of pushing even one as exceptional in this area as Bane, its also a natural conclusion that Plagueis may not edge out a success. I'm sure that Plagueis' mental attributes are very impressive, but without any indication of him being at the top in this area, I'm not sure I see him surviving.

Although, "willpower" is more of a personality trait than a feat.

I reserve the right to retract the above statement at any point if I so desire though.

Ah, the inevitable "oh crap" reaction when one has fallen into one of my cunning traps.

So, yes or no? Do we assume a character with known feats is superior to one without or not?

It depends on whether the feats are significant.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It depends on whether the feats are significant.

Just for the proverbial S's and G's, do you consider Bane's feats superior to Plagueis's part in willfully tipping the cosmic balance of the Force?

Yes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130707145337/degrassi/images/f/fc/Britney-confused_zps9eff516a.gif

lol

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130707145337/degrassi/images/f/fc/Britney-confused_zps9eff516a.gif

lol

Rituals that take months to do don't represent the characters standard ability or what they can call upon in an instant.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Rituals that take months to do don't represent the characters standard ability or what they can call upon in an instant.

That's not what I asked, though.

Yes it is. I find Banes feats superior because they're actual feats that are actually relevant to these threads and actually represent his actual abilities. I largely completely ignore Plagueis' ritual just like I do every other ritual in regards to these threads. He might as well as influenced Lucas for all I care.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes it is. I find Banes feats superior because they're actual feats that are actually relevant to these threads and actually represent his actual abilities. I largely completely ignore Plagueis ritual just like I do every other ritual in regards to these threads.

So just to recap: Staving off Kaan's manipulations, ignoring pain for a decade, and resisting Zannah's "tentacles" is more impressive than tipping the cosmic, universal Force in favor of darkness as a display of willpower?

Unless he has Sidious to help him here too, of course.

Hey, I'm more than ok with handing Sidious the lion's share of the work in that feat.

It's a win-win scenario for moi.

My point is that it was a ritual which took place over months of time with Sidious' help. It's utterly worthless for establishing Plagueis' abilities in a fight.

I never said that Plagueis would summon that power in a fight.

I know you didn't my son. But you seem to think that its possible to extrapolate a massive amount of ability from the feat regardless. I disagree.

That ritual was a test of his willpower though. The fact that he lasted for months makes it even more impressive.

I definitely think the Youtube crowd (Jensarwhatever, Grey Jedi, Evan Nova, etc) lowball Darth Zannah and that Darth Zannah is top tier, but she's not beating Plagueis.

Originally posted by red8
I definitely think the Youtube crowd (Jensarwhatever, Grey Jedi, Evan Nova, etc) lowball Darth Zannah and that Darth Zannah is top tier,


Originally posted by red8
but she's not beating Plagueis.
She could hold him off for a while. I agree Plagueis wins the majority.