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Who wins?

Loki should win, but Vulcan has shown he can manipulate magic before

Loki

Loki

it all depends on if he can manipulate magic... we know his energy manip is out of control ... does vulcan have any tp feats on loki's lvl? that could be a big turn as well loki's tp is monstrous so ill take loki unless someone has some info i dont have that vulcan can manip magic

Vulcan doesnt have TP on Loki's level.

Loki has got to much on the table for Vulcan to deal with, he goes down hard.

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
it all depends on if he can manipulate magic... we know his energy manip is out of control ... does vulcan have any tp feats on loki's lvl? that could be a big turn as well loki's tp is monstrous so ill take loki unless someone has some info i dont have that vulcan can manip magic Vulcan has resisted tp before iirc it's I'm the respect thread.

Vulcan did manipulate Mage Adam Warlocks magic , and with that powe Warlock had merged 2 timelines together

Loki clearly wins.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Vulcan has resisted tp before iirc it's I'm the respect thread.

Vulcan did manipulate Mage Adam Warlocks magic , and with that powe Warlock had merged 2 timelines together

yea if he can manip magic loki is in trouble ... hes a direct counter to someone like loki then

It can be easily resolved by driving him senseless
But yes, if vulcan can manip then it goes either way.

Im going with Loki though.


Serious though these Loki & GR threads need to stop.

Warlock used "quantum magic", I'm not sure if that's the same form of magic that, say, Strange/Asgardians (eldritch) or Scarlet Witch/Chthon (chaos magic) use. It was left a bit ambiguous. I don't know if Vulcan could, say, remove Mjolnir's enchantments with a gesture or something like that, though he could possibly manipulate a bolt of Thor's lightning, for example. I don't know if he'd be able to just cancel Loki's spell casting.

Vulcan mind raped Rachel Grey iirc

Loki no sells telepathy attacks

Lol that point was to show Vulcan is no mug in the TP department.

I get from your various post in Loki threads you think he's unbeatable

No hes beatable.

This can go either way.

But the loki & GR threads need to stop.

Vulcan wins. The same way he did Warlock.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Vulcan mind raped Rachel Grey iirc Originally posted by StyleTime
Well, I guess won't get an answer on that. I ask because Rachel didn't actually try to mindrape anyone. She was ambushed and taken out of the fight before it really ever started. It was heavily implied that Rachel would have been a huge threat to Vulcan throughout her involvement in all of his stupid stories.

After that initial showing, Vulcan usually had Oracle around to block out Rachel's telepathy. She did better against Gladiator, stalemated Vulcan sans telepathy, and was often conveniently "occupied" whenever fights with Vulcan happened during that whole Shiar stuff. I felt she could beat him alone honestly, which is why the writers had to deal with her in some other way.

Oh, and the Emma thing is really misleading. It was one of those "His power level is over 9000!" moments that established him as a threat since it was his early appearance. He didn't actually launch an attack at her, and he hasn't done anything similar that I recall.

I can post scans if anyone has questions about anything.

Loki, imo.

Loki turns him into a tree.

Lowkey.

Vulcan wins and to answer everyones question yes, Vulcan can manipulate/control magic.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/449323-vulcan_vs_adam_warlock_super_zpsec569bca.jpg.html?sort=9&o=24
http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/449324-vulcan_vs_adam_warlock_2_super_zps573fd370.jpg.html?sort=9&o=25

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Warlock used "quantum magic", I'm not sure if that's the same form of magic that, say, Strange/Asgardians (eldritch) or Scarlet Witch/Chthon (chaos magic) use. It was left a bit ambiguous. I don't know if Vulcan could, say, remove Mjolnir's enchantments with a gesture or something like that, though he could possibly manipulate a bolt of Thor's lightning, for example. I don't know if he'd be able to just cancel Loki's spell casting.

Energy

So IYO he could phuck Odin up? Galactus?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So IYO he could phuck Odin up? Galactus?

Naah, I think he can mess with Loki energy though. I honestly don't know Vulcan limitation when it comes to controlling energy.

I dont know much on vulcan, but unless he can manip the magic, hes down for a beating

Loki for the majority

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
I dont know much on vulcan, but unless he can manip the magic, hes down for a beating

I just posted scans of him manipulating magic. That isn't a problem for him at all. Can someone post scans of Loki doing spells mid battle, at least more than one because if this is a blasting match, Loki gets mud stomped.

Originally posted by carver9
I just posted scans of him manipulating magic. That isn't a problem for him at all. Can someone post scans of Loki doing spells mid battle, at least more than one because if this is a blasting match, Loki gets mud stomped.


Alright.

Here he defeats the x-men with a multi-directional blast from a single finger.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiBlastPower04UXMAnnual9.jpg


On a more impressive scale, Loki blasts the entire Thor Corps off their feet.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiBlastPower06441.jpgp

Follows up by rendering both Bill & Masterson Thor senseless with mystical blasts.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiBlastPower07.jpg
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Loki%20Stats/LokiBlastPower08.jpg.html


Loki can emit omnidirectional blasts that stagger even an amped Seth.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiBlastPower09JIM513.jpg

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Alright.

Here he defeats the x-men with a multi-directional blast from a single finger.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiBlastPower04UXMAnnual9.jpg


On a more impressive scale, Loki blasts the entire Thor Corps off their feet.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiBlastPower06441.jpgp

Follows up by rendering both Bill & Masterson Thor senseless with mystical blasts.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiBlastPower07.jpg
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Loki%20Stats/LokiBlastPower08.jpg.html


Loki can emit omnidirectional blasts that stagger even an amped Seth.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiBlastPower09JIM513.jpg

Are you really posting blasting scans against someone that can control energy? Really? The last thing Loki wants to do in this match is shoot something out of his hands. With that said, Vulcan gets the majority.

Wait, what do you mean by spells? I read it wrong

He'll cast a spell of silence to shut him up....

But I think Loki will be using his tricks to fool the not so sharp Vulcan.

Illusions, Clones, Matter Manip, Mind Games, fill Vulcans head with, well whatever he wants, Sorcery, Teleportation, Invisibilty, Phasing, Soul attacks, Binding, Soul binding.

Hell, a simple BFR would work.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
He'll cast a spell of silence to shut him up....

But I think Loki will be using his tricks to fool the not so sharp Vulcan.

Illusions, Clones, Matter Manip, Mind Games, fill Vulcans head with, well whatever he wants, Sorcery, Teleportation, Invisibilty, Phasing, Soul attacks, Binding, Soul binding.

Hell, a simple BFR would work.

Are any of those things in character for Loki during a battle? Vulcan messing with his internal and external energy is something that is in character for him. Loki is a blaster, he does it in all of his battle which from the onset would let Vulcan know he is an energy wielding being which will also open a door for Vulcan to use Loki own power against him or simple rip him up from the inside out.

Illusion won't work. Hell, Vulcan can cast illusions as well. Clones are energy based beings...won't work. Mind games won't work. Matter Manipulating would require energy that would go straight back at Loki. Your best bet is spells and I want to see Loki using this during mid battle, more than once.

Originally posted by carver9
Are any of those things in character for Loki during a battle? Vulcan messing with his internal and external energy is something that is in character for him. Loki is a blaster, he does it in all of his battle which from the onset would let Vulcan know he is an energy wielding being which will also open a door for Vulcan to use Loki own power against him or simple rip him up from the inside out.

Illusion won't work. Hell, Vulcan can cast illusions as well. Clones are energy based beings...won't work. Mind games won't work. Matter Manipulating would require energy that would go straight back at Loki. Your best bet is spells and I want to see Loki using this during mid battle, more than once.

Why wouldn't mind games work?

I'm thinking hypnosis.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Journey_in_to_mystery085-07.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Journeyintomystery088-04.jpg

Because Rachel tried it and failed and during the time, she had the Phoenix force.

Or reality warping:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Journeyintomystery088-08.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Journeyintomystery088-09.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Journeyintomystery088-10.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Because Rachel tried it and failed and during the time, she had the Phoenix force.

That's TP, not hypnosis.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's TP, not hypnosis.

A couple of issues after that Rachel tried illusion casting again (it was against a different character though). It will not work and Vulcan is able to cast illusions as well so I guess this will be a illusion casting battle.

Also, why are you providing scans that was done back in the 60's? You don't have any recent or later material?

Originally posted by carver9
A couple of issues after that Rachel tried illusion casting again (it was against a different character though). It will not work and Vulcan is able to cast illusions as well so I guess this will be a illusion casting battle.

Also, why are you providing scans that was done back in the 60's? You don't have any recent or later material?

Illusion casting =/= hypnosis. Otherwise, Batman is able to cast illusions. And we don''t want that, do we?

Why, does it matter if I'm using old scans? Besides the hypnosis, anyway, he turned Bor, a VERY powerful guy, into snow. Recently.

Originally posted by carver9
A couple of issues after that Rachel tried illusion casting again (it was against a different character though). It will not work and Vulcan is able to cast illusions as well so I guess this will be a illusion casting battle.

Also, why are you providing scans that was done back in the 60's? You don't have any recent or later material? If it is still canon it doesn't matter. We also have a more recent example. Quit ignoring what you don't like. It sets a bad precedent.

Doom knows a thing or two about both magic, and draining powers. Loki is not bothered. From Siege, so carver, something from when you started reading comics.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiPhasing07SiegeTheCabal1.jpg

But since you want modern hypnosis feats....


http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiHypnosis10MightyAvengers33.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiHypnosis06aMarvelFanfare37.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiHypnosis12.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Illusion casting =/= hypnosis. Otherwise, Batman is able to cast illusions. And we don''t want that, do we?

Why, does it matter if I'm using old scans? Besides the hypnosis, anyway, he turned Bor, a VERY powerful guy, into snow. Recently.

How many times out of 10 will he use hypnosis and those 60's scans...is that the only time he's done that?

He prepped for the Bor showing. It wasn't something that he was able to just do with a wave of his hand. There isn't any prep for this battle.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Doom knows a thing or two about both magic, and draining powers. Loki is not bothered. From Siege, so carver, something from when you started reading comics.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiPhasing07SiegeTheCabal1.jpg

I'm trying to figure out why you posted this scan.

Look above. He's done it in the past, he's done it recently, there have been no retcons saying that he's lost his ability......

IOW, it's Loki's fight to lose, in your opinion. Once he uses hypnosis (amongst other things), he wins, right?

Originally posted by carver9
I'm trying to figure out why you posted this scan.

He can phase to become intangible. Against energy drainers built by Doom.

Actually, just go to ODG's respect thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=551221&pagenumber=1

He has hypnotised the surfer.

If he reads vulcans mind he will know NOT to blast him.

He completely no sold Rogue when she tried to absorb his power.
And she had the power of Thor.

All the things I mentioned he can & will do.

The transmutation is the best bet, he has done it before, and he is capable of doing it again.

And Loki is A LOT smarter than Vulcan.

I see him reading his mind, realising he is waiting for hin to blast him, go Invisible...shapeshift into Vulcans dead mother(just read his mind and his past) Vulcan being a bit of a ****tard, "mom!"

Loki can now get close, and sticks the flame sword staight through Vulcans skull.

Loki wins, check the respect thread too.

Nah he doesn't even need to read his mind. Basic knowledge applies.

Which is that Vulcan manipulates energy. He's powerful, sure, but a one-trick pony.

I like this new CBR version of Loki

Well, basic knowledge rules apply. No one can argue about that.
Loki is sneaky, cunning, and clever. No one can argue about that.
He has other abilities aside from lol, blasts ftw! No one can argue about that.

What's your problem?

Originally posted by Insane Titan
I like this new CBR version of Loki Loki isn't an idiot. Don't act like he just blasts everyone.

Since we are just throwing out fts, then let me start.

Here we have Vulcan shutting off the currents in Rachel brain.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media-full/Vulcan/fights/fight%201/3.jpg.html

He made Rachel and the other Xmen think Jean was calling out to them..
http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/fights/fight%201/1.jpg.html
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb312/RespectThread/Vulcan/fights/fight%201/2.jpg

Here he was fast enough to curve Cyclops own blast back at him.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media-full/Vulcan/fights/fight%201/4.jpg.html

He did all of this in one fight.

Control energy from the inside of his opponents.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media-full/Vulcan/fights/fight%204/5.jpg.html
http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media-full/Vulcan/fights/fight%204/6.jpg.html

OMNI blast.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media-full/Vulcan/fights/fight%204/8.jpg.html
http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/fights/random/fight%201/4.jpg.html

Shields...

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/fights/fight%206/5.jpg.html

Blasts big enough to engulf star ships.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/fights/random/fight%202/1.jpg.html

Then he's faster.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/fights/random/fight%202/2.jpg.html

Drain the energy clean out of the soldiers body.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media-full/Vulcan/fights/random/fight%203/2.jpg.html

Makes Kitty see a dead Colossus.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/powers/phionic/phy%201/1.jpg.html

Controls Night crawlers mind.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/powers/phionic/phy%202/1.jpg.html

Makes Banshee see Moira.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/powers/phionic/phy%203/1.jpg.html
http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/powers/phionic/phy%203/2.jpg.html

Not done.

Yes, so with all the basic knowledge Loki, one of the most cunning manipulators in Marvel, has, ESPECIALLY given his in-character penchant for avoiding straight up blasting battles, you still, IN CHARACTER, say that...what, he's going to try and out blast Vulcan?

Get this CBR Loki outta here.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, so with all the basic knowledge Loki, one of the most cunning manipulators in Marvel, has, ESPECIALLY given his in-character penchant for avoiding straight up blasting battles, you still, IN CHARACTER, say that...what, he's going to try and out blast Vulcan?

Get this CBR Loki outta here.

He turns the Xmen powers off and during the time, Rachel had the Phoenix in her.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media-full/Vulcan/powers/Misc/misc%201/3.jpg.html

Makes the Xmen see their greatest fears.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media-full/Vulcan/powers/Misc/misc%202/1.jpg.html

Speed ft
http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/Feats/Speed/speed%201/2.jpg.html

Here he cuts the elder off from his powers and he was getting power from an entire planet full of his people.

http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media/vulcanvseldest.jpg.html

http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media/vulcanvseldest1.jpg.html

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, so with all the basic knowledge Loki, one of the most cunning manipulators in Marvel, has, ESPECIALLY given his in-character penchant for avoiding straight up blasting battles, you still, IN CHARACTER, say that...what, he's going to try and out blast Vulcan?

Get this CBR Loki outta here.

Turn his powers off, mentally mess with him, drain him...the list goes on and Loki isn't beating Vulcan in a blasting match. I posted those because you are just throwing out stuff. Literally naming things Loki has done. So why not do the same. He literally stripped Rachel of her power and she had the Phoenix force. Good luck Loki.

Hahahahaha.

You mentioned all the things Loki can do, and has done on a better scale.

Tricking a few fodder x-men?
Loki has tricked odin himself with a simple illusion, Thor time and time again, not only are they magic in nature they know Loki's tricks, and he still fools them.


Loki can OMNI blast, but hes not going to obviously.

Loki was fast enough to SEE radio waves & redirect them to donald blake.

Vulcan is outclassed by someone more powerful, & far more versatile, get me any GL and stand him next to Loki, and Loki's list of abilities will be longer.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Hahahahaha.

You mentioned all the things Loki can do, and has done on a better scale.

Tricking a few fodder x-men?
Loki has tricked odin himself with a simple illusion, Thor time and time again, not only are they magic in nature they know Loki's tricks, and he still fools them.


Loki can OMNI blast, but hes not going to obviously.

Loki was fast enough to SEE radio waves & redirect them to donald blake.

Vulcan is outclassed by someone more powerful, & far more versatile, get me any GL and stand him next to Loki, and Loki's list of abilities will be longer.

Vulcan has complete control of his mind...He isn't getting tricked and Loki Knows Thor and Odin better than anyone. Of course he would know how to trick them.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Hahahahaha.

You mentioned all the things Loki can do, and has done on a better scale.

Tricking a few fodder x-men?
Loki has tricked odin himself with a simple illusion, Thor time and time again, not only are they magic in nature they know Loki's tricks, and he still fools them.


Loki can OMNI blast, but hes not going to obviously.

Loki was fast enough to SEE radio waves & redirect them to donald blake.

Vulcan is outclassed by someone more powerful, & far more versatile, get me any GL and stand him next to Loki, and Loki's list of abilities will be longer.

Originally posted by carver9
Turn his powers off, mentally mess with him, drain him...the list goes on and Loki isn't beating Vulcan in a blasting match. I posted those because you are just throwing out stuff. Literally naming things Loki has done. So why not do the same. He literally stripped Rachel of her power and she had the Phoenix force. Good luck Loki.

I wasn't though. I was showing, how, in character, he has more at his disposal then just blasting which is what Adam was doing when Vulcan took control of his energy.

When (not IF) Loki doesn't just stand there like 90% of the other mages in Marvel, throwing magical energy bolts.....Vulcan isn't going to win.

He fights VERY differently from Adam does in the scans you posted. Which Vulcan is very ill-equipped to deal with.

P.S: We've done this before with the Elders. How many of his people were powering him? How powerful were each? If I'm powered by every one of my people, and I'm an albino ginger.....that counts for absolutely zilch. Cool statement, but useless.

Originally posted by quanchi112




Stop cheerleading.

Originally posted by carver9
Vulcan has complete control of his mind...He isn't getting tricked and Loki Knows Thor and Odin better than anyone. Of course he would know how to trick them.

And Vulcan doesn't know the X-men?

Originally posted by carver9


Stop cheerleading. I am agreeing. You have tried to dismiss feats and pretended Loki is some idiotic blaster who ignores his own abilities.

Originally posted by carver9
How many times out of 10 will he use hypnosis and those 60's scans...is that the only time he's done that?

He prepped for the Bor showing. It wasn't something that he was able to just do with a wave of his hand. There isn't any prep for this battle.

That's a lie. There was no indication that he prepped his power for the Bor showing. He prepped for time travel.

Also Loki stomps. Also, not sure how absorbing Warlock's quantum magic blasts means he can just counter Loki's spells.

How to trick them? Odin for all his power should see straight through his illusions, yet he is fooled.

Loki can become intangible for the entire fight, cast spells & illusions, weave a spell onto vulcan to sap his strength, give him incapacitating seizures.
Which he has done.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I wasn't though. I was showing, how, in character, he has more at his disposal then just blasting which is what Adam was doing when Vulcan took control of his energy.

When (not IF) Loki doesn't just stand there like 90% of the other mages in Marvel, throwing magical energy bolts.....Vulcan isn't going to win.

He fights VERY differently from Adam does in the scans you posted. Which Vulcan is very ill-equipped to deal with.

P.S: We've done this before with the Elders. How many of his people were powering him? How powerful were each? If I'm powered by every one of my people, and I'm an albino ginger.....that counts for absolutely zilch. Cool statement, but useless.

I think it was a billion people that powered him. I'll find the scan and there you go being picky again. I'm not going to look for a scan stating if they were albino or not. You're crazy.

Show me Loki in a fight using those tactics. The scans you've presented is scans of him 'outside of battle'. Show me some face to face encounters like I've shown you.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
How to trick them? Odin for all his power should see straight through his illusions, yet he is fooled.

Loki can become intangible for the entire fight, cast spells & illusions, weave a spell onto vulcan to sap his strength, give him incapacitating seizures.
Which he has done.

Show me this during combat. Face to face. Why are you naming things that has happened outside of battle. He has went intangible though but I think Vulcan blasted an intangible being before. Will look and see.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's a lie. There was no indication that he prepped his power for the Bor showing. He prepped for time travel.

Also Loki stomps. Also, not sure how absorbing Warlock's quantum magic blasts means he can just counter Loki's spells.

Glad you're here. Maybe you can provide it. Show me scans of Loki using spells during battle.

I thought he prepped for his encounter with Bor. What Is the issue number.?

Originally posted by carver9
Show me scans of Loki using spells during battle.

O.M.G.

Also, why does getting the drop on Rachel mean he wouldn't get reduced to a drooling idiot by Loki's telepathy or say Astral form?

Originally posted by quanchi112
O.M.G.



Do you have them?

Originally posted by carver9
I think it was a billion people that powered him. I'll find the scan and there you go being picky again. I'm not going to look for a scan stating if they were albino or not. You're crazy.

Show me Loki in a fight using those tactics. The scans you've presented is scans of him 'outside of battle'. Show me some face to face encounters like I've shown you.

Lol. The grasp of a drowning man.

Loki AVOIDS FIGHTS WHEN HE CAN. So hypnosis, FOR EXAMPLE (in case you seize and grab this one power of Loki) is how, rather than fight with face to face blasts like Strange or Doom, he will just trick his way through.

So when the match starts, he uses trickery rather than blasting like Adam did, and wins. Not, as you are hoping, he starts blasting, then midway through, switches to hypnosis. This isn't CBR, where he runs through all of his powers. In character is how we fight.

I am powered by a billion ants, doesn't make me a planet buster. Counts for nothing.

Originally posted by carver9
Do you have them? If you don't think Loki a known sorcerer casts spells while in battle you don't have the knowledge to argue for,or against him. It's like saying prove Superman can fly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you don't think Loki a known sorcerer casts spells while in battle you don't have the knowledge to argue for,or against him. It's like saying prove Superman can fly.

Thanos can't kick.
Vulcan can't poop, I've never seen him do it.

Loki has sapped mangog himself(Off panel, before confronting RKT), Godstorm, the entire Wrecking Crew and added to his own.

Even nobilus who was cloned by the High Evolutionary with the powers of both Thor & Loki, Loki sapped his magical power so Thor could beat him.

Originally posted by carver9
Glad you're here. Maybe you can provide it. Show me scans of Loki using spells during battle.

I thought he prepped for his encounter with Bor. What Is the issue number.?

I'm on my phone and there's an excellent respect thread.

Using spells? Is that some kind of humor?

Thor #600 I believe.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Also, why does getting the drop on Rachel mean he wouldn't get reduced to a drooling idiot by Loki's telepathy or say Astral form?

He got the drop on her via illusion and why can't Vulcan just turn Loki powers completely off. Did it against the Xmen. Did it against a Phoenix empowered Rachel and did it against an alien amped species as well.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm on my phone and there's an excellent respect thread.

Using spells? Is that some kind of humor?

Thor #600 I believe.

I'll wait until you are in front of your computer.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-551221-revamped-loki-respect-thread.html

Get them yourself carver. One click away.

Originally posted by carver9
He prepped for the Bor showing. It wasn't something that he was able to just do with a wave of his hand. There isn't any prep for this battle.

Got proof?

He was not prepped for the bor showing, dont lie carver.

Why does have some members written Rip GUY222? I am missing something?

Originally posted by carver9
I'll wait until you are in front of your computer.

Such a masochist.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
He was not prepped for the bor showing, dont lie carver.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Such a masochist.

Can someone explain to me how Loki dont using spells during a fights is not this:



Loki have any natural mental limitation that he impose to himself to not fight smart or using his comproved on pannel powers ?

He can transmutate living and and inanimate objects at will.

Like an entire area, cars into ice cream and buildings into candy.
Turned Lord Pumpkins entire base of operations into a hideout of his own liking.
In Thors vast experience Loki is the only one capable of turning a cloud, into a living fire-breathing dragon.
He has taken "thin air" and created a huge golden statue of himself.
He has turned a tree into a living tiger.
He has turned a lizard into a dragon
In an act of pure cruelty, he turned humans into stone & glass removing their innards and their skin, but left them still alive.
Transforms Lord Pumpkin into a scarecrow and obviously, the Bor feat.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Why does have some members written Rip GUY222? I am missing something?
He sadly passed away.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
He sadly passed away.

I didn't know. How... When? How did you find out? Very sorry to heart that.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I didn't know. How... When? How did you find out? Very sorry to heart that.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t596218.html

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you don't think Loki a known sorcerer casts spells while in battle you don't have the knowledge to argue for,or against him. It's like saying prove Superman can fly.

Not what I am saying. What I am debating on is his IN CHARACTER fighting style. Would he do those things that are mentioned here in combat and if so, how many times out of 10. Example, Guardian amped Prime has Super speed, how many times out of 10 would he overwhelm Thanos with it?

Lol.

IYO, how does Loki fight? Still awaiting proof that Loki prepped to specifically turn Bor into snow.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-551221-revamped-loki-respect-thread.html

Get them yourself carver. One click away.

Everything isn't there, I want the entire comic and we have no idea how Loki performed that since he wasn't in front of Bor when it happened. Do you all have some combat examples or are we just throwing out things that characters have done. If that's the case Superman, Wonder Woman, and Gladiator beats Thor 10/10 via speed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol.

IYO, how does Loki fight? Still awaiting proof that Loki prepped to specifically turn Bor into snow.

What's the issue number?

I guess that means you don't have any combat showings of him performing half of the thing a you've mentioned. Sad thing is, everything I've posted was done during combat.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
He can transmutate living and and inanimate objects at will.

Like an entire area, cars into ice cream and buildings into candy.
Turned Lord Pumpkins entire base of operations into a hideout of his own liking.
In Thors vast experience Loki is the only one capable of turning a cloud, into a living fire-breathing dragon.
He has taken "thin air" and created a huge golden statue of himself.
He has turned a tree into a living tiger.
He has turned a lizard into a dragon
In an act of pure cruelty, he turned humans into stone & glass removing their innards and their skin, but left them still alive.
Transforms Lord Pumpkin into a scarecrow and obviously, the Bor feat.

How does he fight during combat. If I throw out everything Surfer has done on panel, does that mean he can beat Prime? This is simple. How does he fight during combat.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Can someone explain to me how Loki dont using spells during a fights is not this:



Loki have any natural mental limitation that he impose to himself to not fight smart or using his comproved on pannel powers ?

They still fight in character. They keep their mindset. We don't debate off of powerset here.

Originally posted by carver9
What's the issue number?

I guess that means you don't have any combat showings of him performing half of the thing a you've mentioned. Sad thing is, everything I've posted was done during combat.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t551221.html

It's all here.

I thought you knew, to have been so adamant in your denial of my scans?

I do like how, when I post scans, its either:

1. Nah, too old
2. Nah, not combat

Thor 600.

Originally posted by carver9
How does he fight during combat. If I throw out everything Surfer has done on panel, does that mean he can beat Prime? This is simple. How does he fight during combat.
IYO, how does he fight?

Originally posted by carver9
They still fight in character. They keep their mindset. We don't debate off of powerset here.

IYO, how does he fight?

Carver, in character is not PIS ON.

You think fight in character is = PIS. IT is not. Read KMC rules again:

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics.

Carver doesn't know what PIS means.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Carver, in character is not PIS ON.

You think fight in character is = PIS. IT is not. Read KMC rules again:

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics.

But yet they fight in character. Again, if we are using your way of debating... Surfer beats Superman 10/10 (honestly any herald), Superman beats Thor 10/10, and a recent fist fight match that is on this board between Prime and Thanos, Prime stomps him 10/10. Hell, Superman or Wonder Woman would stomp him 10/10 via speed blitz/strength. Anyone that doesn't have speed would die to Thor and his power out put. I could literally just spam a Thor thread saying "Thor wins via soul suck". Or a Surfer thread saying "Surfer wins via black hole to the brain". Lol...debating like you are trying to throw out, no one would beat my Surfer short of Galactus. Their powers are in play but they are still in character.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver doesn't know what PIS means.

I know what it means but you are forgetting the 'in character' part. CIS is always on.

this thread is hilarious....

if loki blasts him, vulcan could take control of the energy though i don't think he could really do much harm with it. there is precedent for that at least. however, there is NO precedent for his being able to negate, control, resist the more esoteric abilities loki has. i guess vulcan could try draining him but that's pretty iffy. basically you either speculate vulcan can do some things he hasn't done, or you vote loki.

if they met in a comic i certainly don't see loki turning him into a tree or anything like that. i think it would be an entertaining stalemate most likely. in a forum setting, based on feats, it's pretty much impossible not to give loki the win.

Originally posted by leonidas
this thread is hilarious....

if loki blasts him, vulcan could take control of the energy though i don't think he could really do much harm with it. there is precedent for that at least. however, there is NO precedent for his being able to negate, control, resist the more esoteric abilities loki has. i guess vulcan could try draining him but that's pretty iffy. basically you either speculate vulcan can do some things he hasn't done, or you vote loki.

if they met in a comic i certainly don't see loki turning him into a tree or anything like that. i think it would be an entertaining stalemate most likely. in a forum setting, based on feats, it's pretty much impossible not to give loki the win.

Vulcan has drained people before, plenty of times. He has also cut people off from their power, more than once. It seems like there are more speculation on you all part than it is for Vulcan. What exotic abilities? Show me him using them 'during combat'.

Hmm...

Carver, do you think Vulcan could remove the enchantments from Mjolnir?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Hmm...

Carver, do you think Vulcan could remove the enchantments from Mjolnir?

The power comes from within Thor...Mjlonir helps him channel said power.

Mjolnir has it's own enchantments as well. Various enchantments. One of which is that no one can lift it that isn't worthy, for example.

Can Vulcan remove that?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Mjolnir has it's own enchantments as well. Various enchantments. One of which is that no one can lift it that isn't worthy, for example.

Can Vulcan remove that?

Don't think he can. Is there a difference between an enchantment and energy?

I honestly believe Vulcan can manipulate magic (hell, I even argued it in a tourney once, and wrote at length on the subject). That said, I don't think Vulcan would beat Loki. Capability is one thing, execution is another.

Originally posted by carver9
But yet they fight in character. Again, if we are using your way of debating... Surfer beats Superman 10/10 (honestly any herald), Superman beats Thor 10/10, and a recent fist fight match that is on this board between Prime and Thanos, Prime stomps him 10/10. Hell, Superman or Wonder Woman would stomp him 10/10 via speed blitz/strength. Anyone that doesn't have speed would die to Thor and his power out put. I could literally just spam a Thor thread saying "Thor wins via soul suck". Or a Surfer thread saying "Surfer wins via black hole to the brain". Lol...debating like you are trying to throw out, no one would beat my Surfer short of Galactus. Their powers are in play but they are still in character.

Read the rules again, please.

Still not answers my question,Carver.

In your opinion, how would Loki fight?

Simple enough question. You keep arguing that none of us are using Loki's character, so what is YOuR take on him?

Originally posted by carver9
Don't think he can. Is there a difference between an enchantment and energy?

No. An enchantments endows an object (or person) with mystical energy and properties.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Still not answers my question,Carver.

In your opinion, how would Loki fight?

Simple enough question. You keep arguing that none of us are using Loki's character, so what is YOuR take on him?

However he fights on panel. Same with Vulcan. If Vulcan just blasted 99.9 percent of the time, I'm not going to say he would blitz the entire fight. I would lean towards what he does majority of the time on panel.

Originally posted by carver9
However he fights on panel. Same with Vulcan. If Vulcan just blasted 99.9 percent of the time, I'm not going to say he would blitz the entire fight. I would lean towards what he does majority of the time on panel. How does he fight on panel ? If you don't know the answer you can't say how he doesn't fight.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How does he fight on panel ? If you don't know the answer you can't say how he doesn't fight.

I provided Vulcan scans that showed what he would do in combat.

Quan was asking about how you think Loki fights.

Originally posted by carver9
I provided Vulcan scans that showed what he would do in combat. That isn't an answer to the question.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me this during combat. Face to face. Why are you naming things that has happened outside of battle. He has went intangible though but I think Vulcan blasted an intangible being before. Will look and see.
Check his confrontation with surtur.

Loki has also cut Hulk off from his power with ease and turned him back into banner.

Loki wins this with overwhelming illusions, tricks and power sapping spells.
He is to smart to lose this one.

Transmutation or mind rape for the win.

Lets not forget he drove Reed Richards insane by filling his head with Chaos Math.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How does he fight on panel ? If you don't know the answer you can't say how he doesn't fight.

Blast, create illusions, kick, punch, etc... his vibe is trickery, even during combat. Won't get him anywhere against someone like Vulcan that would try to kill you during the onset of the battle. Energy drain is one of his main attacks which would more than likely mess Loki up.

The rules are clear:

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before , even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics.

The rules never said "as show before during fights". No one need bring Loki using the feat in a battle...

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Loki has also cut Hulk off from his power with ease and turned him back into banner.

Loki wins this with overwhelming illusions, tricks and power sapping spells.
He is to smart to lose this one.

Transmutation or mind rape for the win.

Lets not forget he drove Reed Richards insane by filling his head with Chaos Math.

And what is Vulcan doing while Loki is doing this?

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
The rules are clear:

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before , even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics.

The rules never said "as show before during fights". No one need bring Loki using the feat in a battle...

So you agree?

Originally posted by carver9
But yet they fight in character. Again, if we are using your way of debating... Surfer beats Superman 10/10 (honestly any herald), Superman beats Thor 10/10, and a recent fist fight match that is on this board between Prime and Thanos, Prime stomps him 10/10. Hell, Superman or Wonder Woman would stomp him 10/10 via speed blitz/strength. Anyone that doesn't have speed would die to Thor and his power out put. I could literally just spam a Thor thread saying "Thor wins via soul suck". Or a Surfer thread saying "Surfer wins via black hole to the brain". Lol...debating like you are trying to throw out, no one would beat my Surfer short of Galactus. Their powers are in play but they are still in character.

Originally posted by carver9
And what us Vulcan doing while Loki is doing this?

Attempting to figure out which one is the real loki.

While loki is either turning him into a toad, filling his head with Chaos Math in which vulcan becomes a vegatable, casting spells which weaken him severely & inflicting heavy seizures.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Attempting to figure out which one is the real loki.

While loki is either turning him into a toad, filling his head with Chaos Math in which vulcan becomes a vegatable, casting spells which weaken him severely & inflicting heavy seizures.

Why wouldn't he know which one is the real Loki when he can telepathically sense the real one? During battle, who is the most powerful being Loki has turned into something. Remember, I said 'during battle', not when he is off panel and we are unable to actually see what he did to do this.

Vulcan would just take control over Loki's magical energies, and burn him with his own power. If Loki somehow had enough time to summon illusions before that happens, Vulcan would easily detect the real Loki's energy and beat him anyway.

Originally posted by Magnon
Vulcan would just take control over Loki's magical energies, and burn him with his own power. If Loki somehow had enough time to summon illusions before that happens, Vulcan would easily detect the real Loki's energy and beat him anyway.

No.

He no sold Rogue when she tried the same thing.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
No.

He no sold Rogue when she tried the same thing.

That ain't close to being the same thing.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
No.

He no sold Rogue when she tried the same thing.

Nah, Loki's power was easily shut down when he faced Ashema.

PIS.

He no sold Rogue, he should have been able to then, but never for sake of plot.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
PIS.

He no sold Rogue, he should have been able to then, but never for sake of plot.

WTF.

I've given the issue number to you - am still awaiting proof with Bor.

Vulcan.uhuh

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I've given the issue number to you - am still awaiting proof with Bor.

When? And was he on the battlefield when he did it? How did he do it? Wave his hands? Read from a spell casting book? Scans.

...You asked for the issue number Scandaddy. I provided it to you. So did Rage. You said he prepped for it, which he doesn't for this match - so prove he prepped for it.

You sound like you've never read it, tbh....

Lol im just ****in with ya.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
...You asked for the issue number Scandaddy. I provided it to you. So did Rage. You said he prepped for it, which he doesn't for this match - so prove he prepped for it.

You sound like you've never read it, tbh....

About to read it. Honestly i only seen parts of it and i remember Loki not being in front of Bor when this happen. IIRC, we only see a glimpse of Loki face when this happened.

Lol. Oh dear. You haven't seen it, have you?

Originally posted by Magnon
Nah, Loki's power was easily shut down when he faced Ashema.

I don't understand this post.

Your counter to Loki no-selling a mutant like Rogue is to bring up him getting beat by a powerful Celestial? In a thread with Vulcan?

What?

Originally posted by Magnon
Vulcan would just take control over Loki's magical energies, and burn him with his own power. If Loki somehow had enough time to summon illusions before that happens, Vulcan would easily detect the real Loki's energy and beat him anyway.

Based on what can Vulcan control do this to Loki?

If he had enough time? Are you implying he's faster or even as fast as Loki?

How would Vulcan detect Loki's illusion when he's fooled everyone from Thor to Heimdall to Mephisto to Odin?

This is not a good match up for Vulcan, IMO. I'll go with Loki here for a majority.

Originally posted by carver9
Blast, create illusions, kick, punch, etc... his vibe is trickery, even during combat. Won't get him anywhere against someone like Vulcan that would try to kill you during the onset of the battle. Energy drain is one of his main attacks which would more than likely mess Loki up. You left out a while slew of abilities while also questioning whether he can cast spells during combat.


Prove he can do so. You're massively overrating Vulcan due to ignorance over Loki's abilities.

Loki is smarter than Vulcan, More powerful & far more versatile.

Vulcan 0
Loki 1

Loki doesn't even need magic, he could easily beat Vulcan to death.

Hush everyone. Scandaddy is d/ling the comics as fast as he can, so that he can see what Loki does with guys like Bor.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. Oh dear. You haven't seen it, have you?

Post scans.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You left out a while slew of abilities while also questioning whether he can cast spells during combat.


Prove he can do so. You're massively overrating Vulcan due to ignorance over Loki's abilities.

I already posted Vulcan using energy drain during combat 2 pages before this. I'm not posting it again. I'm not ignoring anything. Provide the evidence or just leave it be.

Originally posted by carver9
Post scans.

Thought you were reading it?

Edit: This is what you were asking about the scene in question:

Originally posted by carver9
When? And was he on the battlefield when he did it? How did he do it? Wave his hands? Read from a spell casting book? Scans.