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Force, sabers, all out

Battle takes place on Neutral ground

Vitiate mind rapes him and makes him commit suicide. Vitiate for the stomp.

I'd vouch for Vitiate, but it certainly isn't a stomp.

Yeah this would be a very close fight.

He's on neutral ground with no prep. There'd better be a precedent for him "mind raping" force users without prep or a nexus. Or you're all just spouting bullshit theories, he of course has a plethora of other force powers to use though.

Why does not he require a nexus and prep? Is there something documented stating so?

Drew did say Vitiate needed prep for mind****.

Regardless, I doubt a barrage on Caedus's mind is something he'd be able to keep up in such a high intensity confrontation.

Most of his feats are on a nexuses, places of heavy dark side immersion, and or with prep. That's why I stated neutral ground

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Drew did say Vitiate needed prep for mind****.

Regardless, I doubt a barrage on Caedus's mind is something he'd be able to keep up in such a high intensity confrontation.

Caedus is likely faster on neutral ground, Luke moves at sub light speeds and matched Palpatine's speed. So Caedus has a speed advantage over Vitiate. Not to mention comparable force power.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Drew did say Vitiate needed prep for mind****.

Regardless, I doubt a barrage on Caedus's mind is something he'd be able to keep up in such a high intensity confrontation.

Ok. So no mind raping, then Vitiate just force storms him.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Ok. So no mind raping, then Vitiate just force storms him.
not saying force storm won't be used to great effect, but Vitiate's not instapwning him with it, or any of his abilities for that matter.

Vitiate will more than likely be on the defensive IMO.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
not saying force storm won't be used to great effect, but Vitiate's not instapwning him with it, or any of his abilities for that matter.

In all seriousness I agree he won't. I still think he would win. There is only two people who I think could take out Vitiate on equal ground. Luke and DE Sidious.

Originally posted by carthage
Vitiate will more than likely be on the defensive IMO.

You meant offensive. I understand.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I all seriousness I agree he won't. I still think he would win. There is only two people who I think could take out Vitiate on equal ground. Luke and DE Sidious.
Well there's certainly more people then that who could take him out on neutral ground, the question is if they'd do it for a majority.

Vitiate isn't mind controlling Caedus. Caedus could close off his mind and to the force and reopen it at will. If Vitiate tried to control him he'd hit a wall, so his mind control is out

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well there's certainly more people then that who could take him out on neutral ground, the question is if they'd do it for a majority.

Like who? They would definitely pose more of a threat but defeat, I do not believe so.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Like who? They would definitely pose more of a threat but defeat, I do not believe so.
Revan had a shot at beating Vitiate. Obviously not for a majority, but there was still a chance of him emerging victorious.

Caedus has outrun blaster bolts, tanked ion cannons, and penetrated Luke's force shield. He is faster than Hero of tython and can easily send Vitiate flying with a force push or TK wave. I think Caedus can take this slight difficulty if any at all.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Revan had a shot at beating Vitiate. Obviously not for a majority, but there was still a chance of him emerging victorious.

In reality Revan had help and was stop dead on by Vitiate lighting attack. Revan was not stomp like Sidious did to Fisto but he definitely had no chance of winning by himself.

I believe even he knew this.

Actually, Scourge as of SWTOR states that in his vision the trio was going to fail http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif

If he can barely keep up with Revan and HoT, how is he going to be able to keep up with someone that moves as fast as Luke Skywalker? Caedus has superior speed feats to HoT. I wonder if he could outright blitz and kill Vitiate

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Actually, Scourge as of SWTOR states that in his vision the trio was going to fail http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif

That's not in the book when he experiences the vision. It could very well be a pessimistic conclusion ex post facto.

Yeah, it's kind of weird. His explanation of his vision on the whole in SWTOR is completely different than in Revan.

Yeah, which is why I think it's more likely that Scourge is making excuses for his last minute treachery at the time.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Vitiate mind rapes him and makes him commit suicide. Vitiate for the stomp.
Seems like a possibility

Originally posted by carthage
He's on neutral ground with no prep. There'd better be a precedent for him "mind raping" force users without prep or a nexus. Or you're all just spouting bullshit theories, he of course has a plethora of other force powers to use though.
No more baseless prep bullshit please.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Drew did say Vitiate needed prep for mind****.
Some people will never learn.

Exactly when did Drew made that claim? (Since he also pointed out that he wasn't aware of the official capabilities of Emperor Vitiate in the matters of telepathy at the time of making this claim)

Official information has more value then personal opinion of an author by the way and it doesn't supports Drew's opinion.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Regardless, I doubt a barrage on Caedus's mind is something he'd be able to keep up in such a high intensity confrontation.
Why not?

Do you think it was possible to break Revan and Hero of Tython? Yet, Emperor Vitiate broke them.

Originally posted by carthage
Caedus is likely faster on neutral ground, Luke moves at sub light speeds and matched Palpatine's speed. So Caedus has a speed advantage over Vitiate. Not to mention comparable force power.
Caedus doesn't have comparable Force-powers.

Also, Emperor Vitiate responded really well to Revan and Hero of Tython in battles - both are very fast.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Revan had a shot at beating Vitiate. Obviously not for a majority, but there was still a chance of him emerging victorious.
Alone? No.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's not in the book when he experiences the vision. It could very well be a pessimistic conclusion ex post facto.

It's in the book after he'd experienced the visions. I take it as him understanding that the futures where Revan won were unrealistically ever going to occur, or just a flat out "not gonna happen". For a comparison, Jacen saw visions of himself fighting and killing Luke but I seriously doubt that was a decent possibility.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, which is why I think it's more likely that Scourge is making excuses for his last minute treachery at the time.

watch?v=0Vrn6DXegOs

Parts of the video have Scourge's thoughts on his vision. Interpret it as you wish.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Actually, Scourge as of SWTOR states that in his vision the trio was going to fail http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif
Scourge first saw a vision of failure of Revan, Meetra and himself against Emperor, while resting in a cave (hideout) along side Revan and Meetra. This vision demoralized him and he eventually decided to not take chance.

In addition, it is explicitly mentioned that Emperor Vitiate would have defeated the trio of Revan, Meetra and Scourge:

Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless. At least this way Scourge was still alive to carry on their cause.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's in the book after he'd experienced the visions. I take it as him understanding that the futures where Revan won were unrealistically ever going to occur, or just a flat out "not gonna happen". For a comparison, Jacen saw visions of himself fighting and killing Luke but I seriously doubt that was a decent possibility.

But that doesn't jive with Scourge dismissing the notion out of hand in TOR. No one's saying that he, Revan, and Surik would have definitely killed Vitiate in Revan had events played, just that it was a potential outcome. The more probable outcome, Scourge determined, was that someone else would kill Vitiate. All that proves is that the Hero of Tython stood a better chance of killing Vitiate than did Revan, not that Revan's chances were slim to nihl.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's in the book after he'd experienced the visions. I take it as him understanding that the futures where Revan won were unrealistically ever going to occur, or just a flat out "not gonna happen". For a comparison, Jacen saw visions of himself fighting and killing Luke but I seriously doubt that was a decent possibility.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But that doesn't jive with Scourge dismissing the notion out of hand in TOR. No one's saying that he, Revan, and Surik would have definitely killed Vitiate in Revan had events played, just that it was a potential outcome. The more probable outcome, Scourge determined, was that someone else would kill Vitiate. All that proves is that the Hero of Tython stood a better chance of killing Vitiate than did Revan, not that Revan's chances were slim to nihl.

Well idk, Scourge seems to make it pretty clear in the above video that he saw Revan and the Exile losing and that they lacked the power to beat Vitiate. So I guess the other way of taking it is that the final vision wasn't just a possibility, but something that absolutely was going to happen. Akin to the prophecy of the Chosen One.

No, he differentiates his final vision as being a 'moment of clarity'. I find it likely it was different from the other ones, not a mere possibility but a true prophecy. The actual vision itself is different from how its described in the book. Scourges more detailed description of it has him point blank say that he saw Revan and the Exile lose to Vitiate in the final vision.

The bottom line, though, is that Scourge identified Vitiate's defeat at Revan's hands a possibility.

You can mangle the semantics all you like, but the only interpretation that fits with everything is (as usual) mine. Scourge says it was a possibility; that doesn't change because he ended up opting for the Hero of Tython.

It's not really that Revan can't do what the HoT did, it's more likely that no one would be powerful enough to stop Vitiate at that time. I will acknowledge that Vitiate has probably grown more powerful in the time since then, however.

I also thought of it sort of as a prophecy, and even if like Palpatine was in that era, only the Hero of Tython could defeat Vitiate because the Force demanded such. Hence why Revan and friends were said to have lost anyway.

That's an interesting theory. It may even be true. But the only real "cosmic prophecy" in the Star Wars mythology is that of the Chosen One. The Hero of Tython is on the next tier down, along with other great era-defining heroes like Luke. But the only prophesied messiah who really matters on a cosmic level is Anakin Skywalker.

Of course, he is the central figure in the entire saga.
Everyone else is just a backdrop, including Vitiate.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The bottom line, though, is that Scourge identified Vitiate's defeat at Revan's hands a possibility.

You can mangle the semantics all you like, but the only interpretation that fits with everything is (as usual) mine. Scourge says it was a possibility; that doesn't change because he ended up opting for the Hero of Tython.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Of course, he is the central figure in the entire saga.
Everyone else is just a backdrop, including Vitiate.

Correct. At the end of the day, the non-Anakin Skywalker-related story is just irrelevant culturally and cosmically.

Hence why I am still uncertain about the creation of a new trilogy.
Like Lucas once said, without Anakin, how is there a Star Wars?
Then again, I guess the son and daughter is the next best thing.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hence why I am still uncertain how they will handle the new trilogy.
Like Lucas once said, without Anakin, how is there a Star Wars?
Then again, I guess the son and daughter is the next best thing.

They're pursuing Episode VII because no one gives a crap about anything other than the film storyline. But I'm honestly skeptical of Abrams' and co.'s ability to stay faithful to the previous six episodes and deliver a compelling, epic story.

They should have filmed some standalone films in other eras.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The bottom line, though, is that Scourge identified Vitiate's defeat at Revan's hands a possibility.

You can mangle the semantics all you like, but the only interpretation that fits with everything is (as usual) mine. Scourge says it was a possibility; that doesn't change because he ended up opting for the Hero of Tython.

In the right circumstances everything is a possibility. Revan, Meetra and Scourge could probably win through sheer luck or everything going perfectly for them. That's why its a million in one possibility.

They should do good, as long as they don't include Sith.
Otherwise, that would trash the entire "Chosen One" thing.
I would like to see some Old Republic spin off's though.
Anyway, I feel we are stretching off topic. Vitiate probably.

Vitiate takes this