Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I tend to see some strongly varying opinions concerning these two... From the same people.

The usual consensus is that Vitiate was weakened so immensely by his ritual, that even despite being defeated on a potent nexus, he remains marginally superior to the Hero on neutral ground.

Yet, the same people tend to infer that the Hero is significantly stronger than say, Revan, because of his superior performance against Vitiate. Yet, if the latter was so immensely weakened by his ritual as they claim, how is this a valid showcase that he's Revan's superior?

I don't understand! cry

My favorite thread on this forum.

IMO they're on similar levels of power, with Vitiate being superior.

And how exactly, do you come to that conclusion? If he was only weakened slightly, being on a Nexus + Recovery time should make up for that and perhaps more.

If he was weakened massively enough that he's still weaker than usual despite being on an immensely potent Nexus, how do you gauge how much weaker he was than usual? How would you gauge how impressive the Hero's feat is with no indicators to the extent which Vitiate was weakened?

That being said, I doubt Vitiate has been static for 300 years in terms of power level.

Really though, this is just a common case of hyping up Vitiate, but then needing to hype up the HoT; somewhere along the line, they lose track of it all.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
And how exactly, do you come to that conclusion? If he was only weakened slightly, being on a Nexus + Recovery time should make up for that and perhaps more.

He wasn't weakened slightly.

Vitate's previous fight was also on nexus, so the point is irrelevant as to how much it changes his performance, maybe recovery times, but he is still weaker than usual by Scourge's words. The HoT would probably be weakened by it more than Revan was, having no Dark Side mastery to speak of, but Vitiate is similarly weakened a lot by the ritual. Massively is probably too strong of a however word. The timeframe to complete such a mission was not that large, as well as the fact that they all still have to travel to Dromund Kaas and Kaas City, fight through it, save crew members, and then fight Vitiate.

I don't think there's any statement that confirms HoT>Revan.

That too, yeah.



With that in mind, what source states that he was weakened at all? All I can recall is that Scourge said the Emperor was vulnerable, or something of that sort. Can you please redirect me if another source exists?

I look at it as:

Vitiate>Revan>HoT>Weakened Vitiate

I would agree with that

I'll offer an explanation later today, it's midnight and I'm typing on my phone.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
That too, yeah.



With that in mind, what source states that he was weakened at all? All I can recall is that Scourge said the Emperor was vulnerable, or something of that sort. Can you please redirect me if another source exists?
You are correct in it being Scourge who said it, pre-finale, and every just agrees with him. There's no reason to doubt Scourge though. But Scourge also says that the Emperor will recover quickly and he is only taken by surprise at the moment for what that's worth.

Anyway, I agree with XSUPREMEXSKILLZ, Revan the HoT are probably really similar in power. Revan has shown more Force mastery, and only do to his mastering the Dark Side, but as far as raw power goes, they are about the same.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yet, if the latter was so immensely weakened by his ritual as they claim, how is this a valid showcase that he's Revan's superior?


Simple.

He's not.

The reason why people assume HoT is above Revan is because HoT managed to kill the Emperor where Revan did a poor job.

It is complicated because there are many dynamics here. Nexus, ritual's weakening effect, 300 years of power level difference etc.

My personal opinion is that Revan and HoT are very close in power but Revan is highly skilled in the force and HoT is highly skilled in saber combat.

Vitiate is insanely powerful in the force and probably the worst way to approach him in combat is relying on force attacks. His only weakness seems to be dueling and even with that you have to be very skilled with the saber to be able to kill him.

Revan's powers aren't very useful against the Emperor so HoT has the advantage here. This is probably the main reason why there is such a big difference between their performances against Vitiate.

If Revan and HoT were to face each other, it would be a really close fight. I still think HoT is a bit more powerful though.

About Vitiate-HoT, Vitiate is definitely more stronger than him and full power off nexus Emperor's Voice would be able to defeat him with a good fight(It would be a good fight because HoT is an excellent dueler and could give Vitiate a hard time with that). Full powered off nexus original body Vitiate would kill HoT with mid difficulty at most.

OB Vitiate>Voice>HoT>Revan>Weakened Vitiate

This is how I perceive it based on what I've seen/read/played.

Originally posted by Sinious
OB Vitiate>Voice>HoT>Revan>Weakened Voice*

The Voice is just as strong as the Emperor.

Even if you don't believe that the HoT faced the true Emperor, the Hand tells the Wrath that the Emperor embodies himself within the Voice, while the codex says that the Voice wields his power.

As for Revan skills with the saber goes, he's been stated to be skilled in all forms of lightsaber combat, and has outdueled superior lightsaber combatants before, so I don't think that's really an issue here.

As for how the HoT combated the Emperor, that's just something we don't know. We see the beginning and the end of the duel, and the HoT performs acts similar to what Revan would do, block and stab. Revan does try to attack Vitiate using Vitiate's own power, but we also can't prove the HoT didn't do that as well. We simply do not know how the duel went, and shouldn't make such statements. The fact that Vitiate speaks on the HoT's power shows that the HoT at least absorbed a lot of Vitiate's attacks, also seen in cutscene, and considering the HoT's preferred method of execution here is with the Force, I doubt that they wouldn't use it during the duel.

Hot goes after Vitiate under assumption that he is weakened. Because lets face it, Scourge could only assume that Vitiate would be weakened as he never participated in the ritual. On top of that in lightside version, which last time I checked is official, we have confirmation from Vitiate that HoT not only gave Vitiate time to gather his power but, also, dissipated his power saving the weak.
Which character was weakened or not is entirely choice of opinion.

Imho it doesn't matter. Characters never needed full Force reserves to show the best feats in their life, so I doubt that either character performed weaker than normally.

"You've learned" - so how else exactly he would have learned?


Does the sourcebook back it up? Character's or your assumptions do not back it up.


Or HoT was just that good. Like Luke was capable to defeat Abeloth on multiple occasions who was stated to be multiple times more powerful, same is not impossible here. You know that Will of the Force, state of oneness or whatever. Scourge even described a vision to HoT.

But yeah, you make a good case, since droid was involved.

Tol Braga says that he's weakened.

We only see T7 dealing with AN(as in one) illusion, and he only stunned it, not that even that makes any sense. I doubt he made that big of a difference, LeGenD.

Scourge does say that Revan and the Exile weren't strong enough to beat Vitiate, but the Hero is. So I take that as an implicit indication of the Hero being more powerful than Revan. Scourge also says that the Hero could become the Emperor if they wanted to.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Voice is just as strong as the Emperor.

Even if you don't believe that the HoT faced the true Emperor, the Hand tells the Wrath that the Emperor embodies himself within the Voice, while the codex says that the Voice wields his power.

The original body of the Emperor carries the effects of Natemha. It is immune to the corrupting nature of the dark side and yields more natural power than the Voices. Vitiate reached immortality with that body. Emperor's essence might be fully transformed to the Voice but it is still reduced by the new body's limitations. I think that is another reason why Vitiate performed extremely well against Revan and fell to HoT. His original body seems to make a difference.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourge also says that the Hero could become the Emperor if they wanted to.

LMAO Scourge is a retard.

Actually, rituals are performed on the Voice body to house the Emperor's essence. It isn't necessarily as limited as you may think, if at all.

Scourge's vision seems to support the idea that the Hero will become the next Emperor though. In it Scourge hands the Hero Vitiate's crown after the Hero defeats him.

Originally posted by Sinious
My opinions>people in game's
Just as the last time you made this argument, you've given absolutely nothing to support it. Nothing in game implies what you're saying, and the Voice on Voss didn't suffer from Dark Side corruption despite being the Voice for a very long time and then also being possessed by an embodiment of the Dark Side.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourge's vision seems to support the idea that the Hero will become the next Emperor though. In it Scourge hands the Hero Vitiate's crown after the Hero defeats him.

Dude why would the hands, the wrath and the dark council let a freaking jedi become the new emperor? He is the most hated enemy of the Empire right now and he would be killed the moment he stepped his foot in Dromund Kaas ever again.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Just as the last time you made this argument, you've given absolutely nothing to support it. Nothing in game implies what you're saying, and the Voice on Voss didn't suffer from Dark Side corruption despite being the Voice for a very long time and then also being possessed by an embodiment of the Dark Side.

I'm just throwing out theories to make sense to the inaccuracy of Vitiate's combat performances. Revan and HoT seem to be close yet HoT killed the Emperor and Revan got stomped by the Emperor. There is no evidence but I still think the original body of the Emperor will return and will be more powerful if they let the story continue in SWTOR.

Originally posted by Sinious
Dude why would the hands, the wrath and the dark council let a freaking jedi become the new emperor? He is the most hated enemy of the Empire right now and he would be killed the moment he stepped his foot in Dromund Kaas ever again.

Because she killed the Emperor. I mean, would they really defy her? You're assuming they could kill her. She'd likely walk into the Council Chambers with Scourge and beat the entire Council into submission. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-clint.gif

Originally posted by Sinious
Dude why would the hands, the wrath and the dark council let a freaking jedi become the new emperor? He is the most hated enemy of the Empire right now and he would be killed the moment he stepped his foot in Dromund Kaas ever again.


Why would they kill the person they think is at least the second most powerful person in the galaxy? Especially if they wanted to join their side? Hell, I bet they would take Revan back at this point, especially considering Revan said they wanted to take him back.


Pretty sure even if that were the real body, the Emperor isn't dead. And first you would have to know how close said battle was and how it took place, which we simply won't until post-TOR.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because she killed the Emperor. I mean, would they really defy her? You're assuming they could kill her. She'd likely walk into the Council Chambers with Scourge and beat the entire Council into submission. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-clint.gif

I would understand becoming the dark lord of a more humble sith empire like Naga Sadow but becoming the Emperor of such an empire requires more. Also Scourge is a traitor and isn't the Wrath anymore. I really don't think the Sith Warrior(Wrath) would bow to HoT.

Sith arent so fond of bowing to another sith and HoT entering the dark council and declaring himself as the new Emperor wouldn't go so well for him. Vitiate wasn't just a replaceable dark lord.

Plus Vitiate isn't dead so his servants would also work against HoT.

Also lmao @ Scourge + HoT defeating 12 Dark Council members if thats what you're trying to tell me.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Why would they kill the person they think is at least the second most powerful person in the galaxy? Especially if they wanted to join their side? Hell, I bet they would take Revan back at this point, especially considering Revan said they wanted to take him back.


Pretty sure even if that were the real body, the Emperor isn't dead. And first you would have to know how close said battle was and how it took place, which we simply won't until post-TOR.

Because being a bit more stronger than the most powerful council member isn't enough to become an Emperor. They could take HoT and make her replace Malgus perhaps but making him the new Emperor? I don't think so. I can't imagine the Dark Council obeying a 25 years old(at most) dark jedi without laughing. It would be the stupidest storyline of the entire mythos.

@ Nephthys so should I take your silence as a concession; that you've realized you were wrong and that HoT could never become the new Emperor?

No, you shouldn't tbh.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Actually, rituals are performed on the Voice body to house the Emperor's essence. It isn't necessarily as limited as you may think, if at all.
No, Emperor possesses an individual with use of Essence Transfer talent; the possessed individual is basically termed as Voice.

Yes, Emperor wields tremendous power within a Voice but this is an indication of his great command of the Force.

@Sinious

Your points are logical and nicely put.

Originally posted by Sinious
@ Nephthys so should I take your silence as a concession; that you've realized you were wrong and that HoT could never become the new Emperor?

Well I read your post and then decided to have some tea and a wank before replying but if you start laying down the burns that hot I guess I gotta step up.

Originally posted by Sinious
I would understand becoming the dark lord of a more humble sith empire like Naga Sadow but becoming the Emperor of such an empire requires more. Also Scourge is a traitor and isn't the Wrath anymore. I really don't think the Sith Warrior(Wrath) would bow to HoT.

Sith arent so fond of bowing to another sith and HoT entering the dark council and declaring himself as the new Emperor wouldn't go so well for him. Vitiate wasn't just a replaceable dark lord.

Plus Vitiate isn't dead so his servants would also work against HoT.

Also lmao @ Scourge + HoT defeating 12 Dark Council members if thats what you're trying to tell me.

I think the Dark Council and the Wrath would probably accept Scourge's reason for betraying the Empire with the whole "he was literally trying to kill the galaxy" thing. Hell, they should give him and the Hero a hearty slap on the back for saving them. You're ****in' welcome for continuing to exist, jackasses.

If you say so. I think the Hero would be strong enough to back up the claim.

His servants are largely irrelevant. His cult did nothing to stop the Hero and the Wrath could be defeated or turned.

TBH considering the Dark Council has lost so many of their most powerful members its actually not that outlandish. Marr and Nox are the only notable ones left.

I just couldn't wait anymore.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think the Dark Council and the Wrath would probably accept Scourge's reason for betraying the Empire with the whole "he was literally trying to kill the galaxy" thing. Hell, they should give him and the Hero a hearty slap on the back for saving them. You're ****in' welcome for continuing to exist, jackasses.

If you say so. I think the Hero would be strong enough to back up the claim.

His servants are largely irrelevant. His cult did nothing to stop the Hero and the Wrath could be defeated or turned.

TBH considering the Dark Council has lost so many of their most powerful members its actually not that outlandish. Marr and Nox are the only notable ones left.

hmm yes their reason might help them justify the deed a little.

HoT was strong and very capable in combat but like I said, the sith use the title Emperor very rarely. With all the moffs and the dark council under your rule, you can't maintain it by being a good combatant. HoT is stranger to the dark side and isn't powerful enough stay in that position. Mutiny would occur the moment he attempts to take over as the Emperor. He wouldn't be taken serious by the Dark Council too.

Im pretty sure they were unaware of what is going on and didn't expect the Emperor to fall. They were probably busy with the ritual.

If the Emperor sees HoT take over, he can simply send his hands and reveal himself as much as he can to prove that he is alive and can still come back. With Wrath opposing Scourge, Dark Council wouldn't even take him in. And even if the Emperor stays silent, and his servants(including Wrath) don't interfere, they would make him a Dark Council member at most. He isn't that impressive tbh. One insane combat achievement isn't enough to suppress so many sith.

Originally posted by Sinious
Because being a bit more stronger than the most powerful council member isn't enough to become an Emperor. They could take HoT and make her replace Malgus perhaps but making him the new Emperor? I don't think so. I can't imagine the Dark Council obeying a 25 years old(at most) dark jedi without laughing. It would be the stupidest storyline of the entire mythos.
HoT is 23 at the most. Either way, age has nothing to do with it, considering Vitiate became a lord as a child. And the Dark Council has to obey whomever takes power. Otherwise, Baras wouldn't have been leading the Council for a yearish.

Isn't it? No one on the Dark Council dared stand up to the Wrath. You think they'd oppose the man that defeated the Emperor himself?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
No, you shouldn't tbh.

Too late I already have.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


@Sinious

Your points are logical and nicely put.

Thank you.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
HoT is 23 at the most. Either way, age has nothing to do with it, considering Vitiate became a lord as a child. And the Dark Council has to obey whomever takes power. Otherwise, Baras wouldn't have been leading the Council for a yearish.

Yes but HoT has never showed enough intelligence to prove that he is capable. He is a good warrior and that's it. Baras slowly built his influence and used emperor's name and silence as an advantage. Brutally taking over is not the same thing.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Isn't it? No one on the Dark Council dared stand up to the Wrath. You think they'd oppose the man that defeated the Emperor himself?

Well if the Wrath chooses to threaten them, they simply threaten him back which clearly shows that they weren't afraid of him but just cautious. Most importantly, they weren't so fond of Baras and Wrath wasn't trying to become the Emperor but just kill Baras.

Originally posted by Sinious


Yes but HoT has never showed enough intelligence to prove that he is capable. He is a good warrior and that's it. Baras slowly built his influence and used emperor's name and silence as an advantage. Brutally taking over is not the same thing.


Are you implying that the HoT was made commander of all Jedi forces on Corellia without leadership skills? We have not seen the entire story to make such statements. And the only reason Malgus wasn't on the Dark Council is Malgus, yet he has more showing as a warrior. And Baras controlled the Empire with power. Jadus controlled with cunning, and even he was still second to Baras in power after Baras took up the mantle of the Voice.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Are you implying that the HoT was made commander of all Jedi forces on Corellia without leadership skills? We have not seen the entire story to make such statements. And the only reason Malgus wasn't on the Dark Council is Malgus, yet he has more showing as a warrior. And Baras controlled the Empire with power. Jadus controlled with cunning, and even he was still second to Baras in power after Baras took up the mantle of the Voice.

Which is why I said HoT could replace Malgus perhaps. He is a powerful warrior and could lead armies in battle. Being the Emperor isn't the same thing.

The entire Empire was built in his image. His personal servants, and inner groups were created by his sorcerous character. The jedi who killed the Emperor wouldn't just be seen a a new hope for the sith.

Yes he used the actual Emperor's name. HoT's story isn't as cute.


HoT: Yo guys Im a jedi sent by the republic and I just killed your worshipped Emperor but don't worry Im a dark sider too so I'll become the new Emperor.

DC: Nope, you die.

Originally posted by Sinious
Which is why I said HoT could replace Malgus perhaps. He is a powerful warrior and could lead armies in battle. Being the Emperor isn't the same thing.

For the Sith, yeah it is. Considering we have next to no knowledge on how Vitiate rules besides the usual Sith bully tactics, again we can't just assume anything.

Because he was thought of as immortal. Look at what happened when people thought he died. The Empire began cracking and was damn near crumbled. Everything was built around him because he was as close to a god as any Sith before him had ever seen. They respected his power, but if said power were eclipsed, I doubt their devotion would be so strong.

You mean of the few people left that we actually know of who can even stand up to the HoT? From what we've seen, they go by showings of power. It doesn't matter if Vitiate used to be the strongest, it's the person who's the strongest now.

@X:

Hours? Corellia isn't hours from Dromund Kaas.

Darth Marr states that no one in the Empire particularly gives a shit that the Emperor died. They don't really worship him or anything.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Hours? Corellia isn't hours from Dromund Kaas.

Well there's other things taking place. How long do you think the occurrence took?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Well there's other things taking place. How long do you think the occurrence took?
Over a week max, most likely a few days. I still think Vitiate would be weakened significantly, however.

A week, lolwut?

Vitiate would probably be back at full power if it took that long

Vitiate got stomped months ago in game and he's still not back yet.
Originally posted by Nephthys
A week, lolwut? It took about a day to get from the fleet to Dromund Kaas, as stated on Black Talon. I'm definitely more for a few days than a week. That said, I'm covering all my bases.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
For the Sith, yeah it is. Considering we have next to no knowledge on how Vitiate rules besides the usual Sith bully tactics, again we can't just assume anything.

He constructed the empire along with many other things new to the sith culture. The Imperial Intelligence was very sophisticated by itself. The Dark Council is also a unique case. They had high lords before but a council with such characteristics weren't seen before. It is obvious that he didn't simply rule by sith bully tactics.



Well he didn't die though. He and his servants wouldn't just stay there and watch while HoT is taking over.



There were thousands of well trained sith within the empire. Just because the ones we know died, it doesn't mean that new ones aren't replacing them. Dark Council always gets new members. Thanaton was a strong member and Nox replaced him. New powerful sith join the empire every moment and its not as if the council gets weaker in time.

Being the strongest is enough if you're a power risen from within but if you are a jedi trying to take over brutally, you cannot simply be just a bit more stronger.


Also IIRC, Dread Masters were alive and free at that time. They were the envied champions of the Empire for centuries. Imps would rather have them rule than HoT. The Empire would simply welcome them and DC would support them to stop HoT.

But I don't think there would be a need of the Dread Masters anyway.

Originally posted by Sinious
He constructed the empire along with many other things new to the sith culture. The Imperial Intelligence was very sophisticated by itself. The Dark Council is also a unique case. They had high lords before but a council with such characteristics weren't seen before. It is obvious that he didn't simply rule by sith bully tactics.

Nope, because all of those things ran independently with the Emperor controlling the people who actually ran them. The Emperor doesn't keep tabs on any of these organizations, he keeps tabs on their leaders.


He can't do anything and his servants can't do anything. The only person who legitimately stop the HoT is the Wrath, and they most likely would die at the HoT's hands. Despite being called a "master of the Dark Arts," the Wrath isn't fully trained and is going on raw power mainly to accomplish their feats. The HoT has plenty of that and has shown more power.


Nox is an acception, and while new members come in all the time, the point means nothing unless they are equal to or are greater to their masters and then bested them in a duel. This isn't happening here.

As soon as you give me a source for this, I'll agree.

Again, based on what? If the HoT can subjugate the Sith, no one would support removing them based on them being a Jedi. Jaesa is given a high ranking position based on her power alone. If you have the capacity, no one will stop you.

They're dead now, so it matters little.

The Dread Masters would certainly not become the leaders of the Empire.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nope, because all of those things ran independently with the Emperor controlling the people who actually ran them. The Emperor doesn't keep tabs on any of these organizations, he keeps tabs on their leaders.


He can't do anything and his servants can't do anything. The only person who legitimately stop the HoT is the Wrath, and they most likely would die at the HoT's hands. Despite being called a "master of the Dark Arts," the Wrath isn't fully trained and is going on raw power mainly to accomplish their feats. The HoT has plenty of that and has shown more power.


Nox is an acception, and while new members come in all the time, the point means nothing unless they are equal to or are greater to their masters and then bested them in a duel. This isn't happening here.

As soon as you give me a source for this, I'll agree.

Again, based on what? If the HoT can subjugate the Sith, no one would support removing them based on them being a Jedi. Jaesa is given a high ranking position based on her power alone. If you have the capacity, no one will stop you.

They're dead now, so it matters little.


I said he constructed them. I don't understand how thats relevant.

You keep comparing Hoth to individuals but DC would side with Wrath and not HoT.

Nox is an exception? And you know this based on what?

I don't have a source. Its common sense. Their thousands of years old enemy sends an assassin to kill their king and if the assassin decides to stay instead of running and declare that he is taking over, he doesn't get rewarded. So by this I also mean it isn't about just being a jedi.

Dread Masters were alive at that point and Empire has shown a lot of effort to kill them cause they were opposing the Empire. If they were fully certain that their Emperor is killed and a dark jedi is trying to take over, the Empire would stop fighting them and welcome them back in. DMs too wouldn't wanna see the murderer of their Emperor rule as they only saw Vitiate worthy of obedience.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Dread Masters would certainly not become the leaders of the Empire.

Yeah, they're too insane and obsessed with fear.

What do you mean the time that it took to save Kira would make no difference? As you said, the Emperor claiming that the Hero dissipated his energies are belittling words, as is his claim that the Hero had gained little by sacrificing his friend.

The difference in the cutscenes should speak for itself. If you choose to sacrifice your friends, he simply walks up to you and the battle commences. If you choose to save them, he blasts you with lightning and summons illusions as he walks up to you.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Dread Masters would certainly not become the leaders of the Empire.

Even if they won't take over, they certainly won't let HoT take over as well. They were loyal to the Empire because of Vitiate and they grew impatient after centuries of absence and thought the Emperor was gone/dead so they decided to be independent. If they saw the killer of their Emperor take over the empire, they wouldn't stand idle.

Also this entire debate is based on the assumption of Vitiate's silence will continue but he was silent because he was captured and before that he was absent from sight because he didn't need to present himself anymore. If HoT tries to take over, he won't just watch him do it. And like I said before even if the Emperor was destroyed completely I still think Hot doesn't have a chance.

Originally posted by Sinious
I said he constructed them. I don't understand how thats relevant.

The Emperor is only a symbol to most of the Empire, one that has been missing for a long time. In a society that respects power, anyone that overcome said symbol would not be hated just for overcoming them.

The DC would side with whoever had the most power. That didn't side with Baras over the Wrath. They didn't side with Thanaton over Nox. They respect power, and by all accounts, that more than anything.

Nox actually overcame their master and replaced them. Along the way they and the others killed quite a number of Dark Council members with nothing to support equally competent and powerful people took their place. Either way, it matters little.

Because the Sith are rational, normal people in our world instead of the enemy in a black and white universe that has shown everything to support what you're saying. Despite all their words to the contrary, they really do care about an Emperor who isn't there for more than just the power he wielded.

You can't compare such a cut and dry code to a world that has nothing as such. The Sith can't be assumed to do anything, especially when they have shown opinions that contradict said assumption.

Neph already pointed out how no one cares, so why are you still arguing that they would? Either way, even if he hadn't, nothing in game supports your supposition. The Sith don't behave in the way you think they do.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Emperor is only a symbol to most of the Empire, one that has been missing for a long time. In a society that respects power, anyone that overcome said symbol would not be hated just for overcoming them.

The DC would side with whoever had the most power. That didn't side with Baras over the Wrath. They didn't side with Thanaton over Nox. They respect power, and by all accounts, that more than anything.

Nox actually overcame their master and replaced them. Along the way they and the others killed quite a number of Dark Council members with nothing to support equally competent and powerful people took their place. Either way, it matters little.

Because the Sith are rational, normal people in our world instead of the enemy in a black and white universe that has shown everything to support what you're saying. Despite all their words to the contrary, they really do care about an Emperor who isn't there for more than just the power he wielded.

You can't compare such a cut and dry code to a world that has nothing as such. The Sith can't be assumed to do anything, especially when they have shown opinions that contradict said assumption.

Neph already pointed out how no one cares, so why are you still arguing that they would? Either way, even if he hadn't, nothing in game supports your supposition. The Sith don't behave in the way you think they do.

Im sorry but one of these statements make sense. Have you played Makeb? Not the entire empire is individualistic evil beings. There is a powerful patriotism in the Empire and hatred for the jedi. This doesn't even matter though. HoT simply isn't powerful and wise enough to rule the Empire.

"Your wanking is insignificant. Let your death be the same."

Originally posted by Sinious
Im sorry but one of these statements make sense. Have you played Makeb? Not the entire empire is individualistic evil beings. There is a powerful patriotism in the Empire and hatred for the jedi. This doesn't even matter though. HoT simply isn't powerful and wise enough to rule the Empire.

"Your wanking is insignificant. Let your death be the same."
So your argument is, "Marr's wrng, Scourge's wrng, I'm rght, agree or ur a fanboi," just because RotHC has some people who worshipped the Emperor? Okay.

For the record, the HoT is an awful character, and I've always said that I like the Wrath better.

Originally posted by Sinious
"Your wanking is insignificant. Let your death be the same."

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So your argument is, "Marr's wrng, Scourge's wrng, I'm rght, agree or ur a fanboi," just because RotHC has some people who worshipped the Emperor? Okay.

Not really. Scourge's statements are opinions of a character. It doesn't mean that he is right. He might want to see HoT as the Emperor so he might be trying to encourage him but that doesn't mean HoT will be successful. We don't know the motives behind Scourge's actions yet.

The most important factor here is that Emperor isn't dead and he ruled for 1400 years. He obviously has a lot of influence over the empire and won't be so easily forgotten. Remember the last time a Dark Council attempted betray him? I think the current Dark Council remembers it too. They won't simply surrender the empire to a 23 years old dark jedi sent by the republic while their Emperor and his servants are still alive.

P.S What do you mean by that "Marr's wrong" thing? What has he said anything about this? I seem to have forgotten.



Agreed.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
For the record, the HoT is an awful character,

Why?

No offence, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I'm just curious as to why you feel that way.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Why?

No offence, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I'm just curious as to why you feel that way.
HoT is another Luke Skywalker in the making.

Originally posted by Sinious
Not really. Scourge's statements are opinions of a character. It doesn't mean that he is right. He might want to see HoT as the Emperor so he might be trying to encourage him but that doesn't mean HoT will be successful. We don't know the motives behind Scourge's actions yet.

That being said, Scourge's opinions > yours on how the Empire works. He's seen a lot more of it.

Except they don't know that Vitiate wants to kill them all. The last DC that figured it out rebelled, what would stop this one.

Neph brought it up.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Why?

No offence, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I'm just curious as to why you feel that way.
Aside from being called the greatest Jedi from the end of the starter planet, they are a character without weakness, ambition, drive, or purpose. They are filler for what everyone thinks a Jedi should be and act with little thought. The decision to either do, "Something stupid or murderous," on every other planet is among some of the dumbest I've seen, especially considering the other Dark or Light choices in the other storylines. None of this would bother me if the HoT weren't as 2 dimensional as a square, but even their voice acting is awful.

Most of these things would be forgivable, but the HoT being shown as without weakness is awful story telling, IMO. Every good character has to have some type of flaw, which the Jedi in TOR seem to lack.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That being said, Scourge's opinions > yours on how the Empire works. He's seen a lot more of it.

Except they don't know that Vitiate wants to kill them all. The last DC that figured it out rebelled, what would stop this one.

Neph brought it up.


I never said my opinions are superior to Scourge's. I said just because Scourge said so, it doesn't mean that HoT can actually become the new Emperor.

And the way Vitiate handled that rebellion serves the purpose of avoiding another mutiny. Like I said, his entire organization of servants won't just stand idle. HoT would be assassinated in Korriban before even entering the Dark Council.

Originally posted by Sinious
I never said my opinions are superior to Scourge's. I said just because Scourge said so, it doesn't mean that HoT can actually become the new Emperor.

I'm saying that I'll take his opinion over yours.

Except they actually think Vitiate is dead.

The Empire is losing the war, they might be desperate to accept the Hero and Scourge back for the power they bring. Plus I'm sure the Hero has access to incredibly valuable military information that could help turn the tides.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Empire is losing the war, they might be desperate to accept the Hero and Scourge back for the power they bring. Plus I'm sure the Hero has access to incredibly valuable military information that could help turn the tides.

Which is why I say they would either put him in a position similar to Malgus or make him a dark council member. Becoming the Emperor is an entirely different story.