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Who is the weakest being who can solo every single mutant on earth?

1) Separate one-on-one battles.
2) All out dogpile attack by all mutants at once.
3) Concerted attack with Cyclops, Xavier, Apocalypse, Cable, and Magneto in charge of strategy.

No BFR, no prep. No stupid ridiculous characters like Legion, HOM Wanda, FP Franklin etc. No Phoenix Force. No Squirrel Girl.

The fight takes place on an uninhabited earth-like planet.

What's the limit to stupid powerful mutants.

Leech, though I'll need to train him up/give him a gun.

Originally posted by "Id"
What's the limit to stupid powerful mutants.
Basically none of the ridiculous high end reality-warper types, like Franklin, Legion, HOM Wanda, Jaspers. So nobody who is making pocket universes, rewriting all reality etc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Leech, though I'll need to train him up/give him a gun. But Leech is one of the mutant team. I guess I'd allow him to do scenario 1 then shoot himself at the end.

Ohhh....so I have to choose a non-mutie?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ohhh....so I have to choose a non-mutie?
Well, all mutants are fighting on the mutant team by default (except those above that are excluded from the thread altogether). Leech is a mutant himself isn't he?

Doom w/access to tech
Loki w/norn stones
Darkseid.
Thanos.
H/P Doomsday
OF thor
Jobberless Surfer

Eobard Thawne Zoom.

Batkick.

For scenario #1 I'm thinking Nemesis Kid or The Fury.
Scenario #2 & #3, The Fury.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Doom w/access to tech
Loki w/norn stones
Darkseid.
Thanos.
H/P Doomsday
OF thor
Jobberless Surfer

None of these people are soloing the mutant race. As for the thread, I don't have an answer.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Loki w/norn stones lol

Originally posted by carver9
None of these people are soloing the mutant race. As for the thread, I don't have an answer.

Surfer can shut off the mutant gene turning them all into regular humans.
Thanos can do the same.

Originally posted by Existere
lol in a one on one yes, against all..No

Thawne can travel to kill them when they're normal humans, before their powers manifest.

Numbers don't matter either; he could do it at his leisure.

Nate Grey lives in planck time or something like that, so he may be able to respond to Zoom.

Originally posted by Existere
Nate Grey lives in planck time or something like that, so he may be able to respond to Zoom.
Zoom isnt confined to the boundaries of time, no matter how fast someone is, unless they have temporal manipulation greater than Zoom's...they are statues really.

What about characters like Proteus or Hyperstorm? They still hold power over reality, space/time, and fundamental forces.

Originally posted by "Id"
What about characters like Proteus or Hyperstorm? They still hold power over reality, space/time, and fundamental forces.

I thought OP specifically said those guys aren't allowed?

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Surfer can shut off the mutant gene turning them all into regular humans.
Thanos can do the same.

And they are going to be standing there while Surfers doing it. How about Blink just teleport the Juggernaut inside of Surfer or a building.

Show me Thanos turning off the X gene.

They don't fit the bill of ridiculous high end reality-warper types, that creates pocket universes, rewriting all reality etc.

But that pair, fall under the pay grade.

Originally posted by "Id"
They don't fit the bill of ridiculous high end reality-warper types, that creates pocket universes, rewriting all reality etc.

But that pair, fall under the pay grade.

What pair?

Hyperstorm and Proteus.

Is Hyperstorm on Earth?

Korvac

It's already been said:
Doom
Loki
Thanos
especially with prep
Probably Luthor with Prep
Black Panther with prep for a fact since he's canceled Mutant powers before
Maybe Iron Man with prep
Reed with prep

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Surfer can shut off the mutant gene turning them all into regular humans.
Thanos can do the same.
When have either of them ever done this?

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
It's already been said:
Doom
Loki
Thanos
especially with prep
Probably Luthor with Prep
Black Panther with prep for a fact since he's canceled Mutant powers before
Maybe Iron Man with prep
Reed with prep

You all are crazy. Proteus, a reality warper would ruin anyone on your list. Add in Apocalypse, Hope (who can add your powers to her own including everyone else powers that is on the battle field just by being in everyone proximity), Exodus, Cable, Shadow King, Blink (who can teleport you anywhere or teleport anything inside of you), Iceman, Rogue, Emma Frost, Xavier, and the list goes on.

How about this. This is every mutant on the planet. Some of these people can boil you from the inside out just by staring at you and you think these people will single handily take them out.

http://marvel.com/universe/Category:Mutants

Get out of here. You all really need to think about this for a bit before giving an answer. Lol at Doom. Proteus would turn him into a bunny. And how is Black Panther or anyone going to cancel the entire mutant race powers when the mutants are standing there in front of them. WTF man.

Thawne, still.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thawne, still.

What has Thawne done to make you say he could beat them?

The fact that he's in a literal different dimension of speed, plus he can defeat them before puberty. And they wouldn't have powers at the moment in time, so nothing they can do, even Proteus.

Originally posted by carver9
You all are crazy. Proteus, a reality warper would ruin anyone on your list. Add in Apocalypse, Hope (who can add your powers to her own including everyone else powers that is on the battle field just by being in everyone proximity), Exodus, Cable, Shadow King, Blink (who can teleport you anywhere or teleport anything inside of you), Iceman, Rogue, Emma Frost, Xavier, and the list goes on.

How about this. This is every mutant on the planet. Some of these people can boil you from the inside out just by staring at you and you think these people will single handily take them out.

http://marvel.com/universe/Category:Mutants

Get out of here. You all really need to think about this for a bit before giving an answer. Lol at Doom. Proteus would turn him into a bunny. And how is Black Panther or anyone going to cancel the entire mutant race powers when the mutants are standing there in front of them. WTF man.

Excellent post!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The fact that he's in a literal different dimension of speed, plus he can defeat them before puberty. And they wouldn't have powers at the moment in time, so nothing they can do, even Proteus.

So he's going back in time? Bfring himself?

Originally posted by carver9
So he's going back in time? Bfring himself?



I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but isnt going back in time the moment the fight starts not allowed in forum fights?

I cant remember exactly, but this is addressed in the rules somewhere...

Dr Manhatten

/thead

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Dr Manhatten
Would get his mind erased.

OWAW Superman

or Batman with two broken arms

@Style

Lol. Very true. Proteus Reality warping>>>>> Manhattan.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Would get his mind erased.

No he wouldnt. He'd be able to solo quite handily, and, making multiple clones, taking care of the dog pile WITH a dog pile...

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
OWAW Superman

or Batman with two broken arms

Superman dies but Batman stomps.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Surfer can shut off the mutant gene turning them all into regular humans.
Thanos can do the same.
Surfer has never shut off any mutant gene, Cable burnt out, that's how he lost his powers, he even stated so himself.

Originally posted by riv6672
No he wouldnt. He'd be able to solo quite handily, making multiple clones, taking care of the dog pile WITH a dog pile...



No he would not. Professor X teamed with Shadow King, Emma, Psylocke, Sinister, Apocalypse, mind rapes the hell out of him. You have to provide some hard proof that he can survive that. Back to what I said before, Proteus turns him into a chicken.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Zoom isnt confined to the boundaries of time, no matter how fast someone is, unless they have temporal manipulation greater than Zoom's...they are statues really.
Nate's planck length is time manipulation, he can literally step out of time

Originally posted by carver9


No he would not. Professor X teamed with Shadow King, Emma, Psylocke, Sinister, Apocalypse, mind rapes the hell out of him. You have to provide some hard proof that he can survive that. Back to what I said before, Proteus turns him into a chicken.

Forgot to add Rachel (who is in possession of the Phoenix) and Exodus also assisting in this mind raping.

Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
Nate's planck length is time manipulation, he can literally step out of time

Forgot about Nate. Yeah, this is a stomp for anyone that has been named so far.

Originally posted by carver9

You have to provide some hard proof that he can survive that.
Oh. What if i use TWO lol emoticons?
My conjecture's as valid as yours.

Originally posted by carver9
So he's going back in time? Bfring himself?

From the rules:



He isn't leaving the field of combat. He's always there. That's the nature of his time powers.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but isnt going back in time the moment the fight starts not allowed in forum fights?

I cant remember exactly, but this is addressed in the rules somewhere...

Only in regards to prep. I'm not using it for prep. This may be what you're thinking of, LoM:


Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
Nate's planck length is time manipulation, he can literally step out of time
Quick draw contest, am still taking Zoom over Nate, powerful as he is.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/12/124715/3452356-dark+x-men+3+014.jpg

Which is to say, he doesn't have it on as default (I know he counts it as one of his 300 ways or whatever).

wbh

Originally posted by Shabazz916
wbh

Even Carver doesn't believe that, lol. You are a true believer.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
From the rules:



He isn't leaving the field of combat. He's always there. That's the nature of his time powers.



Only in regards to prep. I'm not using it for prep. This may be what you're thinking of, LoM:



Quick draw contest, am still taking Zoom over Nate, powerful as he is.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/12/124715/3452356-dark+x-men+3+014.jpg

Which is to say, he doesn't have it on as default (I know he counts it as one of his 300 ways or whatever).

Does it matter? Nate as a Shaman was composed of pure psionic energy, physical attacks couldn't effect him (barring Ares due to his personification as war). The way I see it Nate has plenty ways to affect Zoom while, Zoom as virtucally no way of harming Nate

Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
Does it matter? Nate as a Shaman was composed of pure psionic energy, physical attacks couldn't effect him (barring Ares due to his personification as war). The way I see it Nate has plenty ways to affect Zoom while, Zoom as virtucally no way of harming Nate

How about Nate when he was a baby?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137777/3908660-8656558060-29888.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How about Nate when he was a baby?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137777/3908660-8656558060-29888.jpg
That would require Zoom to travel to a different Universe AOA, furthermore why couldn't Nate just do the same???

Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
That would require Zoom to travel to a different Universe AOA, furthermore why couldn't Nate just do the same???

I haven't seen Nate do it, tbh - although I admit, my knowledge on him is not that extensive. Can/Has he?

Good point on the AoA point though - unless, of course, he changes something else in Nate's timeline (as he did with Barry - he went through Barry's entire timeline just to mess around with specific points in his life). Or replicates what Norman did with Mimic and Omega.

But yes, I can see it being almost impossible for someone to solo every mutant on Earth, just on their own....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I haven't seen Nate do it, tbh - although I admit, my knowledge on him is not that extensive. Can/Has he?

Good point on the AoA point though - unless, of course, he changes something else in Nate's timeline (as he did with Barry - he went through Barry's entire timeline just to mess around with specific points in his life). Or replicates what Norman did with Mimic and Omega.

But yes, I can see it being almost impossible for someone to solo every mutant on Earth, just on their own....
Nate is an expert at tranversing different realities. He casually universe jumps, also I believe he has time traveled to battle AoA sugarman before he was Shaman. Plus his planck length abilities allows him to affect the time stream. He can even erase specific moments, such as what he did to moonstone.

Zoom gets building teleported into his stomach or gets turned into a rat. Or mind raped.

Originally posted by basilisk
Basically none of the ridiculous high end reality-warper types, like Franklin, Legion, HOM Wanda, Jaspers. So nobody who is making pocket universes, rewriting all reality etc.

huh Legion was a reality manipulator? I thought he was just a really powerful but conventional psi. Did he start conventional and end-up a reality manipulator?

Originally posted by carver9
Zoom gets building teleported into his stomach or gets turned into a rat. Or mind raped.

Scans of all of this? Against speedsters who speedblitz other speedsters?

Originally posted by Delta1938
huh Legion was a reality manipulator? I thought he was just a really powerful but conventional psi. Did he start conventional and end-up a reality manipulator?
He's a bad a$$ reality manipulator. He literally stuffed the 616 universe in a Box,and replace it with his own.

Originally posted by riv6672
Oh. What if i use TWO lol emoticons?




Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
He's bad a$$ reality manipulator. He literally stuffed the 616 universe in a Box,and replace it with his own.

This something that happened later or was he always a reality manipulator?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Scans of all of this? Against speedsters who speedblitz other speedsters?

Scans of him going back in time and speed blitzing at the same time. Him taking action (going back in time) would give the team a chance to think of an attack and that's all it would take. Then, Hope can mimic his powers. Hell, she mimicked the powers of the Phoenix force. So not only will she have his powers, she will also have every mutant on the planet powers as well. Stomp. Then, the mutant Mimic can mimic (too many mimics in my sentence) 50% of his powers as well which would be added to 4 other powers on the battle field of his choice (hope and Proteus). He doesn't stand a chance.

Originally posted by Delta1938




This something that happened later or was he always a reality manipulator?
it's a personality he developed. As you know each new persona manifest a new ability.

ERM.....you don't know how his powers work lol. Him going back in time IS speed blitzing, you do know the equation for speed, right? Distance divided by time? If time is stopped.....lol.
From their point of view, nothing has changed. From his point of view, he's done everything and anything he wants. Imagine hitting pause on your DVD player. Then hitting play after you've gone to get some food, taken a dump, changed your clothes, had a shower etc lol. When you hit play, everything is exactly as IT was before.
Also, Proteus wasn't allowed as he's a major reality warped lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
ERM.....you don't know how his powers work lol. Him going back in time IS speed blitzing, you do know the equation for speed, right? Distance divided by time? If time is stopped.....lol.
From their point of view, nothing has changed. From his point of view, he's done everything and anything he wants. Imagine hitting pause on your DVD player. Then hitting play after you've gone to get some food, taken a dump, changed your clothes, had a shower etc lol. When you hit play, everything is exactly as IT was before.
Also, Proteus wasn't allowed as he's a major reality warped lol.

Gotcha...so he goes back in time and kills Professor. What is the team doing while he does this? You know, the other thousands of mutants. Wait, all of them are going to wait until he does it to everyone? Makes sense. You provided a scan but he wasn't in combat, blitzing around while he did it and in order to beat the entirety of the mutant race, he will not be able to stand still at all. Ok, so he goes back in time to kill Professor? He's still dead. What else do you have? Now I know you can provide scans of him blitzing around while going back in time?

Also, Proteus wasn't in the OP. He isn't a huge reality warper like the people he named. He's planetary at best.

Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
That would require Zoom to travel to a different Universe AOA, furthermore why couldn't Nate just do the same???

Here is your scan. Post the scan after this.

Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
it's a personality he developed. As you know each new persona manifest a new ability.

So they basically just added it later. Ah, k. Thanks.

You posted the ruling that a character leaving the battlefield is bfr, yet unless he's only moving through time and not space he is leaving the battlefield

Originally posted by StyleTime
Would get his mind erased.

Prove he has a mind you can erase.

Originally posted by carver9
Here is your scan. Post the scan after this.

Quoted the wrong person. Didn't try to quote you sunking.

Zarathos W/The Medallion of Power? Can he?

Supreme intelligence

Marquis Of Death

Superman Prime come in from the 853rd century. He drops his pants. He thinks about Lois, Lana, Cat Grant and Diana all rubbing oil over themselves in skimpy lingerie. He furiously strokes himself. The money shot takes-out not only all mutants, but rips a hole in the space/time continuum and causes the Earth-616 universe to collapse.

Superman wins.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Prove he has a mind you can erase. http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a523/leonbuco/images_zpswx0fd6fx.jpeg

KORVAC

I DEMAND that you concede now, Carver!

Originally posted by Delta1938
Superman Prime come in from the 853rd century. He drops his pants. He thinks about Lois, Lana, Cat Grant and Diana all rubbing oil over themselves in skimpy lingerie. He furiously strokes himself. The money shot takes-out not only all mutants, but rips a hole in the space/time continuum and causes the Earth-616 universe to collapse.

Superman wins. http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a523/leonbuco/images%2024_zpswpvt7itd.jpg
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a523/leonbuco/images%2023_zpsnt7okqx4.jpg
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a523/leonbuco/images%2021_zpsq0vxwqor.jpg
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a523/leonbuco/download%209_zpsxmk8ovfx.jpg


But

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a523/leonbuco/tumblr_lltzgnHi5F1qzib3wo1_400_zpsf4uilaut.jpg

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a523/leonbuco/images_zpswx0fd6fx.jpeg

I had to per OP.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Zarathos W/The Medallion of Power? Can he?

Supreme intelligence

Marquis Of Death

Skyfathers

Originally posted by carver9
Skyfathers


KORVAC

KORVAC

KORVAC

KORVAC

ANSWER COWARD!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Prove he has a mind you can erase.
Exactly.
There's no way to say Dr. Manhattan's mind is still organic, subject to the telepathic assault that was cited.

Its a good attack plan, but its not guaranteed to work.

Originally posted by carver9
Gotcha...so he goes back in time and kills Professor. What is the team doing while he does this? You know, the other thousands of mutants. Wait, all of them are going to wait until he does it to everyone? Makes sense. You provided a scan but he wasn't in combat, blitzing around while he did it and in order to beat the entirety of the mutant race, he will not be able to stand still at all. Ok, so he goes back in time to kill Professor? He's still dead. What else do you have? Now I know you can provide scans of him blitzing around while going back in time?

Also, Proteus wasn't in the OP. He isn't a huge reality warper like the people he named. He's planetary at best.

You need to stop and think about time travel, I think.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Prove he has a mind you can erase.
For Nate you do not need to reach into your physical brain to effect his mind. His run in with Xavier, and how he folded his astral body is clear evidence of such.

Regardless if Dr. Manhatan body made of matter or immaterial, he has a conscious mind therefore his mind can be effected since his astral body can be found in the Mindscape/Astral Plane.

This should not come as a huge surprise, given that other immaterial beings like Cassandra Nova, or Shadow King have been shown to be effected by psionics despite being energy beings themselves.

Originally posted by basilisk
Basically none of the ridiculous high end reality-warper types, like Franklin, Legion, HOM Wanda, Jaspers. So nobody who is making pocket universes, rewriting all reality etc. This right here pretty much kinda makes this thread nonsensical.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
This right here pretty much kinda makes this thread nonsensical.

I think OP meant on the mutie side, there wouldn't be any reality warpers of that ilk.

But where do you draw the line? Elixer? P5? Base Legion?

I took it to mean no one who could solo, lol.

So if you have one (or several) mutant(s) who can conceivably beat a good proportion of the others (P5, Proteus, Legion etc) then yeah, unusable. But yeah, clarification would be good.

Originally posted by "Id"
For Nate you do not need to reach into your physical brain to effect his mind. His run in with Xavier, and how he folded his astral body is clear evidence of such.

Regardless if Dr. Manhatan body made of matter or immaterial, he has a conscious mind therefore his mind can be effected since his astral body can be found in the Mindscape/Astral Plane.

This should not come as a huge surprise, given that other immaterial beings like Cassandra Nova, or Shadow King have been shown to be effected by psionics despite being energy beings themselves.

On the subject of Dr. Manhattan, its really a moot point.
He's never fought a telepath/psionic or anything like that, so there's no proof as to what would really happen.
There have been plenty of other characters listed who can be argued a lot more easily...

Forget Dr Manhattan, hes useless and has no feats.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I took it to mean no one who could solo, lol.

So if you have one (or several) mutant(s) who can conceivably beat a good proportion of the others (P5, Proteus, Legion etc) then yeah, unusable. But yeah, clarification would be good.

Basically you can't choose any mutant for your answer, because they are all fighting on the mutant team...

...the only exceptions were the high end warpers, PF, etc. excluded in the OP. They are out of the thread entirely, so they aren't fighting for the mutants and they can't be chosen for your answer either. Guys who can put universes in boxes are getting too ridiculous.


Maybe:
Kuurth
Odin
Standard Galactus
The Stranger
High Evolutionary (has shown some ability to remove the X-gene)
Korvac

Well that makes it a lot easier to puck characters to solo the mutants.
Like i said, a lot of choices were already put out, to include Dr. Manhattan, who's powers, while always a matter of debate, is secondary to his durability, both mental and physical.
The character was never intended for these types if debates, and i didnt bring him up, but i still think he could do this. Found an in depth post on another site by a poster named Wyldsong. Giving credit where due:


Like i said, not meant for debates, really. But reading between the lines, it seems he's got a lot of implied power that he just never saw fit to use in the story...

Originally posted by riv6672
Well that makes it a lot easier to puck characters to solo the mutants.
Like i said, a lot of choices were already put out, to include Dr. Manhattan, who's powers, while always a matter of debate, is secondary to his durability, both mental and physical.
The character was never intended for these types if debates, and i didnt bring him up, but i still think he could do this. Found an in depth post on another site by a poster named Wyldsong. Giving credit where due:


Like i said, not meant for debates, really. But reading between the lines, it seems he's got a lot of implied power that he just never saw fit to use in the story...


Yes, Implied power is good an all but he has never faced anyone note worthy.
Dudes not even high herald.
Its been stated in the original watchmen comics that Jon only has enough power to destroy a continent.

I agree, he is not made for these boards....so leave him be.
Legion, proteus or P5 would destroy him; from what we have seen Jon do pales in comparison to many of the mutants. Telepaths & Reality Warpers.

Which non uber mutants could survive a planet buster?

Depends how well they can hide, i suppose.....?

The Mask would solo.

Originally posted by carver9


No he would not. Professor X teamed with Shadow King, Emma, Psylocke, Sinister, Apocalypse, mind rapes the hell out of him. You have to provide some hard proof that he can survive that. Back to what I said before, Proteus turns him into a chicken.
You're being too kind. No need to bring out the high order telepaths. Featwise, even Karma could wreck him mentally. biscuits
Originally posted by riv6672
Exactly.
There's no way to say Dr. Manhattan's mind is still organic, subject to the telepathic assault that was cited.

Its a good attack plan, but its not guaranteed to work.
Well, it doesn't quite work like that on a battleboard, where feats are king. Telepaths have affected non-corporeal beings before, and generally rock anything without explicit defense/immunity. You'd have to show feats to argue against that as a viable tactic.
Originally posted by riv6672
On the subject of Dr. Manhattan, its really a moot point.
He's never fought a telepath/psionic or anything like that, so there's no proof as to what would really happen.
There have been plenty of other characters listed who can be argued a lot more easily...
He isn't a good battleboard character, I agree. But since this is a battleboard, telepathic defense is something you've gotta prove he has.

Even ignoring the telepaths though, he'd fail miserably at this thread. Eva Bell is all of 15 years old and can freeze time(she solo'd the Avengers including Hulk), and she's nowhere near the strongest mutant he'd have to worry about. Fighting together, the mutants have an absurd level of hax abilities that would be firing simultaneously. Manhanttan is screwed here.

Deadpool.

Marquis of Death

I'm not a big stickler for feats over common sense or spite posts, but i was basing my telepathic argument on a probable non organic mind, which a character like Plastic man has shown to be tele proof.
I try not to see things as set in stone in these debates; give every argument the benefit of the doubt.
A lot of posters dont, and depending on my mood i'll either ignore them or debate the point, no big.

Originally posted by carver9
You all are crazy. Proteus, a reality warper would ruin anyone on your list. Add in Apocalypse, Hope (who can add your powers to her own including everyone else powers that is on the battle field just by being in everyone proximity), Exodus, Cable, Shadow King, Blink (who can teleport you anywhere or teleport anything inside of you), Iceman, Rogue, Emma Frost, Xavier, and the list goes on.

How about this. This is every mutant on the planet. Some of these people can boil you from the inside out just by staring at you and you think these people will single handily take them out.

http://marvel.com/universe/Category:Mutants

Get out of here. You all really need to think about this for a bit before giving an answer. Lol at Doom. Proteus would turn him into a bunny. And how is Black Panther or anyone going to cancel the entire mutant race powers when the mutants are standing there in front of them. WTF man.

If Proteus is a reality warper then he's not included. Plus I've seen magneto wreck him solo. He's pure energy and you know who's REALLY good at absorbing energy? Doom (ask nightmare, Franklin Richards, Galactus, etc.)

Blink can't do much to anyone with a teleporter (Doom and pretty much everyone I named), Shadow King, Exodus, Cable, psionics in general fall to Doom's willpower and psionic refractor, to BP's tp defense, to Iron Man's psionic dampeners, etc. Prep easily counters all of that.

Rogue has to touch you, Iceman sucks unless he's going all out and even then can simply be TP'd or hypnotized or just trapped, Apocalypse has become a jobber that Ironman already trapped sans prep, and Hope can only copy powers of mutants. Plus she can only handle so much.

And how is BP gonna cancel mutant race powers? Satellite+x-gene nullifier. Or gas in air+x-gene nullifier. That goes for all the prep masters.

Oh and Doom has countered reality warp before with pure willpower. Proteus would get mangled.

Of course, what carver neglected to mention was Proteus' big problem with iron....

Marquis of death tho.

Originally posted by riv6672
I'm not a big stickler for feats over common sense or spite posts, but i was basing my telepathic argument on a probable non organic mind, which a character like Plastic man has shown to be tele proof.
I try not to see things as set in stone in these debates; give every argument the benefit of the doubt.
A lot of posters dont, and depending on my mood i'll either ignore them or debate the point, no big.
We're not discussing the fail telepaths over at DC, we're talking Marvel(ba-zing).

Jokes aside, the mutants have affected non-corporeal minds before. I'm not saying "it's set in stone", so much as I am saying "the evidence indicates this."

I mean, we're all having fun here and you're welcome to believe whatever you want obviously.

Except that he can actually win. uhuh

You guys are aware that Proteus rid himself of the iron weakness back in the "King of Pain" crossover , when his essence merged with Piecemeal.

131fist

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Deadpool.

If Deadpool could do it, then DM could do it.

Deadpool kills the mutant race.

Deadpool can do what ever he damn pleases, he is marvels greatest asset.

Im fanboying

Someone stop me

Originally posted by "Id"
You guys are aware that Proteus rid himself of the iron weakness back in the "King of Pain" crossover , when his essence merged with Piecemeal.

131fist

Thawne takes care of that.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even Carver doesn't believe that, lol. You are a true believer.

He simply destroys the planet... Idk if any mutant can survive without oxygen

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
If Proteus is a reality warper then he's not included. Plus I've seen magneto wreck him solo. He's pure energy and you know who's REALLY good at absorbing energy? Doom (ask nightmare, Franklin Richards, Galactus, etc.)

Blink can't do much to anyone with a teleporter (Doom and pretty much everyone I named), Shadow King, Exodus, Cable, psionics in general fall to Doom's willpower and psionic refractor, to BP's tp defense, to Iron Man's psionic dampeners, etc. Prep easily counters all of that.

Rogue has to touch you, Iceman sucks unless he's going all out and even then can simply be TP'd or hypnotized or just trapped, Apocalypse has become a jobber that Ironman already trapped sans prep, and Hope can only copy powers of mutants. Plus she can only handle so much.

And how is BP gonna cancel mutant race powers? Satellite+x-gene nullifier. Or gas in air+x-gene nullifier. That goes for all the prep masters.

Oh and Doom has countered reality warp before with pure willpower. Proteus would get mangled.

He said high end characters. Proteus is included. Magneto fought a depowered Proteus that split himself in half.

That's all Proteus would have to do is think of something and it would happen to Doom. Prove that Doom moves faster than thought.

Lol...Blink teleported a ton of sand INSIDE of Hyperion. She can teleport objects inside of Doom and that would literally kill him. Then let's not forget that Doom would have thousands of mutants in front of him attacking him simultaneously. Blink can do whatever she wants to him while he is fighting other mutants. Lol...she can teleport another mutant inside of Doom. Doom dies, easily. He isn't taking on the mutant race by himself. Hell, Apocalypse can beat him solo. A lot of mutants can beat him solo. I honestly don't think you all are thinking. Just think for a bit. Use that noggin.

Who said there was prep for this battle? And he would have to do it as soon as the bell ring but guess what, there are people that can move at light speed. They could kill him before he even got the chance to think about an attack. BP dies and lol at you thinking he could take on the entirety of the mutant race. A freaking low meta.

Proteus isn't the only one he has to worry about. He has to worry about Proteus trying to turn him to a puppy. Blink trying to teleport objects inside of him. Apocalypse trying to mind rape and pound on him with Celestial tech. Magneto trying to rip his armor off. Hope using his own powers against him. Xavier along with hundreds of others mind attack him. People controlling his energy. X treme trying to boil his blood from the inside out. Kitty trying to phase inside of him. Darwin adapting to his attacks and his Boyd creating a counter. Storm throwing lightning and tornados on top of him. Do I honestly need to keep going because that isn't even 1% of the entirety of the mutants. Exodus, Sebastian Shaw, lol, the list goes on and on. Why is it so hard for you to think about this stuff? Stop making me spoon feed you

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thawne takes care of that.

While having a bomb inside his body.

Originally posted by carver9
While having a bomb inside his body.

*sigh*

Speed feats of Blink etc, please? Especially when contending with a speedster who blitzes speedsters?

Have you thought about time travel yet? Like, sat down, and actually worked out what it means?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
*sigh*

Speed feats of Blink etc, please? Especially when contending with a speedster who blitzes speedsters?

Have you thought about time travel yet? Like, sat down, and actually worked out what it means?

Yes and per the rules it's self bfr. Even if he didn't bfr himself. He does it to one person, they are gone, while he is doing that, the other mutants rips him to shreds unless again, you can prove that he can do all of this at Super speed (your scan didn't prove this).

Originally posted by carver9
Yes and per the rules it's self bfr. Even if he didn't bfr himself. He does it to one person, they are gone, while he is doing that, the other mutants rips him to shreds unless again, you can prove that he can do all of this at Super speed (your scan didn't prove this).

Lol.

Right, OK, it looks like I need to educate you about time travel.

Say you and I are facing each other. You can time travel, I cannot.

I have a friend with me, who has a gun. He has it holstered, but ready to shoot you when the bell goes. He's a trained pro, so quickdraw and all that jazz.

We are facing each other, waiting for the bell to ring. Being punctual people, we both agreed we will fight at 0800 hours EXACTLY.

*DING*

You go into my past, and kill me when I'm a baby. You sift through my past, taking YOUR sweet sweet time, until you discover when I am most vulnerable. Maybe it was when I was unguarded, having just been born. Maybe it was on my first day of school, when I was catching the school bus. Maybe it was on a school trip, as we went to the museum. Whatever it is, I am vulnerable. You strike.

When the deed is done, you go back to the present day. Now, you can TIME TRAVEL. What time do you go back to?

0800 hours. Exactly. You have never left the battlefield. My gunslinging friend isn't waiting around, because from his point of view, YOU NEVER LEFT.

You, being a speedster, have fast reactions. Definitely faster than my friend.

You jump back into the time stream. Kill HIM when he's a baby.

Jump back to the present. To 0800 hours EXACTLY. You can do this, because you are a TIME TRAVELLER.

Now, before you go crying and saying this doesn't happen in comics, this is EXACTLY what happened in Flashpoint.

Rinse, repeat. Maybe I have a whole gang of 100 gunslingers. Doesn't matter. You have ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD, because from their point of view, you keep coming back to 0800 hours, at the exact moment you keep leaving.

Now, do you understand?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol.

Right, OK, it looks like I need to educate you about time travel.

Say you and I are facing each other. You can time travel, I cannot.

I have a friend with me, who has a gun. He has it holstered, but ready to shoot you when the bell goes. He's a trained pro, so quickdraw and all that jazz.

We are facing each other, waiting for the bell to ring. Being punctual people, we both agreed we will fight at 0800 hours EXACTLY.

*DING*

You go into my past, and kill me when I'm a baby. You sift through my past, taking YOUR sweet sweet time, until you discover when I am most vulnerable. Maybe it was when I was unguarded, having just been born. Maybe it was on my first day of school, when I was catching the school bus. Maybe it was on a school trip, as we went to the museum. Whatever it is, I am vulnerable. You strike.

When the deed is done, you go back to the present day. Now, you can TIME TRAVEL. What time do you go back to?

0800 hours. Exactly. You have never left the battlefield. My gunslinging friend isn't waiting around, because from his point of view, YOU NEVER LEFT.

You, being a speedster, have fast reactions. Definitely faster than my friend.

You jump back into the time stream. Kill HIM when he's a baby.

Jump back to the present. To 0800 hours EXACTLY. You can do this, because you are a TIME TRAVELLER.

Now, before you go crying and saying this doesn't happen in comics, this is EXACTLY what happened in Flashpoint.

Rinse, repeat. Maybe I have a whole gang of 100 gunslingers. Doesn't matter. You have ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD, because from their point of view, you keep coming back to 0800 hours, at the exact moment you keep leaving.

Now, do you understand?

I don't think you get it. Him leaving the battlefield is self bfr.

Lol so you first concede the point about other mutants 'ripping' Zoom apart when he's attacking them one by one?

Once you do, I'll move on to the next.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think you get it. Him leaving the battlefield is self bfr. http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a523/leonbuco/211_zpsk71lhlk3.gif

lol at Thawne beating all the mutants. I'm sure one of them can replicate Thomas Wayne's powers.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol so you first concede the point about other mutants 'ripping' Zoom apart when he's attacking them one by one?

Once you do, I'll move on to the next.

I don't concede anything. I'm pointing out that Zoom would self bfr himself attempting to go through a time zone. Then there are characters that can mimic his powers. More than one character.

Originally posted by Shabazz916
He simply destroys the planet... Idk if any mutant can survive without oxygen
Shaman Nate Grey can, becoming immortal rids himself of him needing typical sustenance, he's pure energy. Also Shaman Nate easily travels through space.

So if say BrB was to just bust the earth to eliminate 99% of the combatants who can survive planetary destruction & survive in space?

Originally posted by pym-ftw
So if say BrB was to just bust the earth to eliminate 99% of the combatants who can survive planetary destruction & survive in space?

There are some combatants that can think faster than Bill can react. He gets in raped.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't concede anything. I'm pointing out that Zoom would self bfr himself attempting to go through a time zone. Then there are characters that can mimic his powers. More than one character.

What does BFR mean?

Originally posted by carver9
There are some combatants that can think faster than Bill can react. He gets in raped. and how many have dropped a half robot alien God who at worst is capable of light speed?

That, is a good question...

Originally posted by carver9
He said high end characters. Proteus is included. Magneto fought a depowered Proteus that split himself in half.

That's all Proteus would have to do is think of something and it would happen to Doom. Prove that Doom moves faster than thought.

Lol...Blink teleported a ton of sand INSIDE of Hyperion. She can teleport objects inside of Doom and that would literally kill him. Then let's not forget that Doom would have thousands of mutants in front of him attacking him simultaneously. Blink can do whatever she wants to him while he is fighting other mutants. Lol...she can teleport another mutant inside of Doom. Doom dies, easily. He isn't taking on the mutant race by himself. Hell, Apocalypse can beat him solo. A lot of mutants can beat him solo. I honestly don't think you all are thinking. Just think for a bit. Use that noggin.

Who said there was prep for this battle? And he would have to do it as soon as the bell ring but guess what, there are people that can move at light speed. They could kill him before he even got the chance to think about an attack. BP dies and lol at you thinking he could take on the entirety of the mutant race. A freaking low meta.

Proteus isn't the only one he has to worry about. He has to worry about Proteus trying to turn him to a puppy. Blink trying to teleport objects inside of him. Apocalypse trying to mind rape and pound on him with Celestial tech. Magneto trying to rip his armor off. Hope using his own powers against him. Xavier along with hundreds of others mind attack him. People controlling his energy. X treme trying to boil his blood from the inside out. Kitty trying to phase inside of him. Darwin adapting to his attacks and his Boyd creating a counter. Storm throwing lightning and tornados on top of him. Do I honestly need to keep going because that isn't even 1% of the entirety of the mutants. Exodus, Sebastian Shaw, lol, the list goes on and on. Why is it so hard for you to think about this stuff? Stop making me spoon feed you

Again, Doom is highly resistant to transmutation and reality warp so Proteus can't do that. As for faster than thought, who said he was? I mean if we're doing things at thought speed Doom just depowers Proteus as soon as the match starts like he did to Wiccan.

And you know his armor is literally anti-Magneto right?

Oh and Hope can only use powers of mutant, you ignored that.

I thought of everything, and...none of that stops Doom simply depowering them all or making the fight Doombots or using prep to make an anti-mutant armor or simply stealing someone's powers beforehand etc.

As for who said he has prep....I did. I said Doom and other geniuses could do it with prep. Duh.

And everything you named those mutants trying to do would likely fail simply due to Doom's forcefields (stopped phasing from vision) and his ability to direct the likes of Nightcrawler's and Brother Voodoo's teleporting to a point of HIS choosing. So blink's power is likely being used against the mutants.

And even worse, if they somehow get all of that off....it was just a doombot. Then an army of Doombots are there, Doom sat on his power cosmic chair and solos or just overwhelms them with Doombots, or freezes time in the area, or sends them all back in time, etc.

Doom with prep and actually trying and replicating his past feats is ridiculously powerful. He could definitely do this.

Originally posted by Delta1938
huh Legion was a reality manipulator? I thought he was just a really powerful but conventional psi. Did he start conventional and end-up a reality manipulator?
He has been a reality warper for nearly a decade going on now. The first time his reality-altering abilities were showcased was when a personality called Moira Mactaggert manifested and stuffed the whole universe inside a box.

The next time was when he defeated Limbo's Elder Gods by destroying the current universe and making a backup of the original for everything but the Elder Gods, effectively deleting them from existence.

The most recent instance is him doing something which involved building a reality from the raw stuff of universes or some sh1t. You can ask Id or operator616 for more details on that particular feat.

Edit: Notable thing about the latter 2 instances was that neither involved the Moira personality or any of his thousands of other unstable personas. Those feats were performed by the core Legion personality.

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
Again, Doom is highly resistant to transmutation and reality warp so Proteus can't do that. As for faster than thought, who said he was? I mean if we're doing things at thought speed Doom just depowers Proteus as soon as the match starts like he did to Wiccan.

And you know his armor is literally anti-Magneto right?

Oh and Hope can only use powers of mutant, you ignored that.

I thought of everything, and...none of that stops Doom simply depowering them all or making the fight Doombots or using prep to make an anti-mutant armor or simply stealing someone's powers beforehand etc.

As for who said he has prep....I did. I said Doom and other geniuses could do it with prep. Duh.

And everything you named those mutants trying to do would likely fail simply due to Doom's forcefields (stopped phasing from vision) and his ability to direct the likes of Nightcrawler's and Brother Voodoo's teleporting to a point of HIS choosing. So blink's power is likely being used against the mutants.

And even worse, if they somehow get all of that off....it was just a doombot. Then an army of Doombots are there, Doom sat on his power cosmic chair and solos or just overwhelms them with Doombots, or freezes time in the area, or sends them all back in time, etc.

Doom with prep and actually trying and replicating his past feats is ridiculously powerful. He could definitely do this.

Prove that he is resistant to planetary level transmutation, especially from the likes of someone like Proteus.

Who said Proteus is the only one in this battle and lol at Doom being able to solo Proteus.

WTF. Hope has mimicked the Phoenix Force before. Read up on your characters.

This isn't a prepped battle my friend.

Nothing to add other than you guys are really getting detailed here.
Learning new stats...

Originally posted by carver9
Prove that he is resistant to planetary level transmutation, especially from the likes of someone like Proteus.

Who said Proteus is the only one in this battle and lol at Doom being able to solo Proteus.

WTF. Hope has mimicked the Phoenix Force before. Read up on your characters.

This isn't a prepped battle my friend.

He resisted transmutation from High Evolutionary when he was changing everyone on earth into stuff.

I didn't say Proteus was the only one, just that he'd be easily handled.

But it is a prepped battle since...I said Doom/T'challa/Reed with prep. Taking out prep means we're discussing nothing since I specified prep.

And Phoenix Force is an ability of a mutant. Just saying. She's also literally part of the family that is able to possess/use the Phoenix Force. If she had other feats of copying powers then maybe. But she doesn't. Proven when she couldn't do anything to Kuurth after copying like 100 mutant powers. If she could copy ANY powers she'd have copied Kuurth's powers and beaten him with that. She didn't. Thus she can't.

So the Phoenix force is a mutant ability? Since prep isn't in this battle, the rest of your post is meaningless.

Originally posted by Epicurus
He has been a reality warper for nearly a decade going on now. The first time his reality-altering abilities were showcased was when a personality called Moira Mactaggert manifested and stuffed the whole universe inside a box.

The next time was when he defeated Limbo's Elder Gods by destroying the current universe and making a backup of the original for everything but the Elder Gods, effectively deleting them from existence.

The most recent instance is him doing something which involved building a reality from the raw stuff of universes or some sh1t. You can ask Id or operator616 for more details on that particular feat.

Edit: Notable thing about the latter 2 instances was that neither involved the Moira personality or any of his thousands of other unstable personas. Those feats were performed by the core Legion personality.

Actually he's been a reality warper only since early 2011.

And btw, the Elder Gods instance was before Age of X. Elder Gods was in New Mutants v3 #21. Age of X followed right after that (When the Moira personality manifested).

the raw stuff of universe instance is from the same arc where his personality put the universe in a box (Age of X). He then goes on to absorb Moira (enabling him to use her power to warp reality) and restored reality (which was in the box) to normal. Note that the "raw stuff of universes" is taking the statement out of context, because the box was confirmed several times to contain a single universe, that statement was merely to indicate that Legion is holding the raw stuff of which universes are composed of (but that doesn't mean that multiple universes were actually contained in the box). Similar to how when a character destroys a single world, he's called "the destroyer of worlds".

The latest reality warp from Legion was erasing himself from existence, thereby erasing his influence on the universe from history (which is pretty impressive). Happened in the last issue of X-Men Legacy v2. But that's a stupid move from the writer, because many Marvel stories are now erased from existence too as a result of this. Even major ones like Age of Apocalypse should be technically erased too now, but im pretty sure it won't.