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The Sith come to our world through a portal. Sidious has decided to earth his new homeworld. The Avengers come to save earth.

Round 1 All of the Avengers are included except for Thor.

Round 2 occur if the other Avengers fail then Thor comes to fight the remaining sith.

Who wins?

Is Hulk with the Avengers team?

Yes

Thor could prolly solo

Though can't exactly recall Sidious' higher end showings so, meh

Would be fun to see if the Sith can **** with Hulk's mind.

It'd probably be possible, but really hard. As even in his Hulk persona, we know Banner is in there and we know Hulk once under control actually cares for his friends. So if it did happen, I think it'd be temporary, or they'd lose a Sith in the process since it would take a lot to focus on a rage machine like Hulk and leave one of them vulnerable.

Hulk is immobilized by force TK. Same for Thor and IM.


Jedi rape.

When on screen has Force TK been powerful enough to hold back someone like Thor or Hulk? And when has it been accurate enough to catch someone moving at Tony's speed?

Hurling senate pods and Obi-Wan doesn't = stopping a 900lb rage machine that barrels through steel like loose leaf paper and can topple a flying monster that's at least 90+ tons with ease.

Lifting Hulk off the ground would just about render him useless since he can't fly.

A thunderclap would easily solve that. But even if they got him off the ground, that's at least one Sith out of the picture as they have to focus on holding Hulk.

You've got Widow and Hawkeye with bullets and arrows. Cap with his shield. Iron Man with his repulsors. If they get Hulk in the air, he won't be there for long. And this is all assuming Hulk is standing still and waiting for it to happen. Not rampaging toward them and chucking cars and shit their direction on the ay.

Originally posted by KingD19
When on screen has Force TK been powerful enough to hold back someone like Thor or Hulk? And when has it been accurate enough to catch someone moving at Tony's speed?

Hurling senate pods and Obi-Wan doesn't = stopping a 900lb rage machine that barrels through steel like loose leaf paper and can topple a flying monster that's at least 90+ tons with ease. Yoda. Brute strength does not counter TK. Quite the opposite.

They don't have to catch Tony, merely prevent him from taking flight.

TK>>>>Brute strength.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Hulk is immobilized by force TK. Same for Thor and IM.


Jedi rape.

Both Thor and IM can fly so they could presumably escape the Sith's TK. Hulk would be though.

Originally posted by ares834
Both Thor and IM can fly so they could presumably escape the Sith's TK. Hulk would be though. No. TK prevents them from taking flight.

Because all three of them are gonna whip out Force TK at the beginning of the fight and focus specifically on the fliers. That just leaves them open to getting shot, skewered with arrows and bonked upside the head with a shield.

TK was never used to stop ships or speeders. No one did it. Luke the most powerful of them all, had to go under immense concentration just to lift R2D2 and make a show of him. Impossible for the force to stop Iron Man or Thor.

Seems folks are tryin using the EU feats when it comes to the TK.

Originally posted by KingD19
Because all three of them are gonna whip out Force TK at the beginning of the fight and focus specifically on the fliers. That just leaves them open to getting shot, skewered with arrows and bonked upside the head with a shield. Just realized how outnumbered the force users are. Wtf man?

Anyhoo, any one of the force users can grab Hulk via precog and toss him around like a rag doll. Hell, Dooku can use him as a wrecking ball and KO the rest of the Avengers.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know, "Hulk strong, Hulk break TK hold!!!" Tell ya what, quote me a time in any movie ever that a brute strong individual broke a TK hold while suspended in mid-air.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Just realized how outnumbered the force users are. Wtf man?

Anyhoo, any one of the force users can grab Hulk via precog and toss him around like a rag doll. Hell, Dooku can use him as a wrecking ball and KO the rest of the Avengers.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know, "Hulk strong, Hulk break TK hold!!!" Tell ya what, quote me a time in any movie ever that a brute strong individual broke a TK hold while suspended in mid-air.

And you show us a scene from Star Wars where a force user has stopped someone as big as Hulk.

As I said. If they do get him in a TK hold, he can easily Thunderclap his way out. Or, any of the other members of the team with projectiles(i.e. everyone but Hulk) can take down the Sith dumb enough to focus on holding him in the air and leaving himself vulnerable.

No one was shown moving that sort of weight with enough speed to take out anyone on the Avengers. The biggest things moved with any sort of velocity were senate pods, and they moved painfully slow when it comes to the Marvel Squad.

Originally posted by Kazenji
And you show us a scene from Star Wars where a force user has stopped someone as big as Hulk. They don't have to "stop" him, all they need to do is lift him inches off the ground. All 3 here are more than capable of doing that. If Hulk is off the ground, he cannot dig his feet in to the ground to exercise his brute strength.

Sidious has lifted stuff as heavy as Hulk, if not even moreso. Why wouldn't he be capable of it

When has Hulk thunderclapped someone. I ask because I've only seen him in the Avengers, I didn't see the movie before it

All we've ever seen him lift are senate pods. And unless there's an official weight out there for those, it's speculation that they're as heavy or heavier than the Hulk. Aside from that, what has Sidious moved? Also as they're repulsor tech, they could be very easy to move since they're already being held afloat.

And in 08 Hulk with Ed Norton, he does a thunderclap to put out the fire of the helicopter. This version doing it would send those guys flying.

But since RJ is saying people can do anything that they should be able to. Even if he'd never thunderclapped, as strong as he is it's a valid option.

He's more powerful than Yoda, who moved an X-Wing rather handily. And we have no reason to believe the repulsor tech is being used, like, at all

From what distance did he thunderclap it away? Sith are faster so they could set the distance to avoid it I guess /shrug

Yoda also moved a trade federation ship during orbit and smashed it into another one.

More powerful than Yoda is debatable. And the X-Wing feat wasn't easy. You can't just assume Y>X when it comes to Force Users. And we do have reason to believe it was being used. Whenever a senator had the floor, their pod would detach and float about. With the ease they moved them it's a valid argument that the tech is always active. They didn't even have to force them from their moorings.

He was at least 10-20 feet away I'd guess. Here's the scene

ShZrVG_tYU4
He was a lot weaker in this incarnation than Avengers Hulk, so the subsequent thunderclap would do a lot more. Even back then though, it shook a cargo helicopter and threw everyone inside back from the force alone, as well as putting out a fire.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Yoda also moved a trade federation ship during orbit and smashed it into another one.

Is that from the Clone Wars movie? The claymation one? Or Attack of the Clones?

Originally posted by KingD19
More powerful than Yoda is debatable. And the X-Wing feat wasn't easy. You can't just assume Y>X when it comes to Force Users.

Well at least as powerful as. And if he's as powerful, it's logical he can generate just as much energy as him



Which would be because they were being actively used by Senators, not being forced out of their moorings



Hmph. Not bad. The "whole lot more" would be unquantifiable as to how much

The point I'm making is that Yoda and Sidious easily pulled them away from the moorings. That only happens when they're active and being used. It's a valid argument that they could be in stand by mode or something, otherwise they'd have to rip them free, which they clearly didn't.

Also all of the pods were clearly active as they were all lit up as if they were in use. They even made the same noise as normal when they were chucking them around.

We know based on feats from HULK and Avengers, that Avengers Hulk is in a whole nother league. A thunderclap from him would do tons more damage than that one, and would probably end a fight since 2 of those three are pretty much fragile old men.

How are any of the Sith going to force tk the Hulk when they are too busy trying survive the barrage of mini missiles from Iron Man, like the one he used to wipe out several Chitauri flyers at once during the initial stages of the New York fight? As well as Hawkeye and Black Widow shooting at them... and I haven't even mentioned Cap.

Vader has shown the ability to force choke individuals across space while talking. To move objects while fighting. What could the Avengers do that would stop them from being force choke no matter what their location is?

Honestly, Thor is the only reason I see the Jedi losing.

Their choke TK would not be strong enough to effect Hulk. Wouldn't do much to Thor either.

Originally posted by KingD19
Is that from the Clone Wars movie? The claymation one? Or Attack of the Clones?

The tv show before the current one that's going to end.

Originally posted by Placidity
Their choke TK would not be strong enough to effect Hulk. Wouldn't do much to Thor either.

Thor ok, Hulk how not?

Because it only affected human durability people. Hulk shrugged off vulcan cannon fire, Thor's hits, falling 30k+ feet or so, etc...

I don't recall any Jedi or Sith doing well with Lightning. Thor unleashes his AOE lightning from the ground or Air with Ease.

Unless there has been showings of Jedi or Sith restraining people for long periods of time, those supposed feats are not valid.

It took Luke immense concentration to lift R2D2 and Yoda even more to lift the X-wing.

They cannot stop flyers like Thor and Ironman, because they have zero feats to prove they can. Jedi/Sith never stopped any speeders, spacecrafts of any sort that could fly or levitate, therefore they cannot stop Thor or Ironman.

Originally posted by KingD19
Because it only affected human durability people. Hulk shrugged off vulcan cannon fire, Thor's hits, falling 30k+ feet or so, etc...

Not sure how comparing brute force attacks or even physical attacks to force attacks is an good example. A force choke is not a physical or brute force attack. I do not see how brute strength is going to make the Hulk resist.

Originally posted by KingD19
The point I'm making is that Yoda and Sidious easily pulled them away from the moorings.

I believe we see sparks and hear metal wrench when Sidious rips one of the platforms free.

It does physical damage though. It might be TK inflicted, but it's still like a strong hand is choking you. Unless that force exerted is enough to damage someone like Hulk, we have no reason to believe it will.

And do we? I'd missed that part, but if that's just one out of the dozens he throws?... That one could have been faulty or locked in. The others clearly weren't.

If the Luke could not restrain the Rancor, none of these ninnys are restraining the Hulk or Thor.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
How are any of the Sith going to force tk the Hulk when they are too busy trying survive the barrage of mini missiles from Iron Man, like the one he used to wipe out several Chitauri flyers at once during the initial stages of the New York fight? As well as Hawkeye and Black Widow shooting at them... and I haven't even mentioned Cap. Easy. IM is held in place by Sidious and Vader force speeds over and decaps him. Easy cheesy.

Cap? Lol, come on, he's a non factor here. Same for Black Widow. Dooku force lifts Hulk and uses him as a battering ram on the rest of the Avengers.

Sidious' TK is not strong enough to hold IM in place.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Easy. IM is held in place by Sidious and Vader force speeds over and decaps him. Easy cheesy.

So Sidious holds Tony in place... then Tony simply asks Jarvis to launch the missile barrage. Unlike his repulsors, he didn't need to make any gestures to launch them. His one shoulder pad simply opened up and off they went. Sidious gets blown to smithereens, while standing there looking like a jackass with his arm stretched out. Considering suit-Vader has been shown to be slow and clunky in all of the original trilogy films, I have a hard time seeing him speedblitz anyone. He'd be better suited to do a lightsaber throw while Sidious holds IM. At least this would possibly take out Tony while Sidious gets blown up.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0 Cap? Lol, come on, he's a non factor here. Same for Black Widow. Dooku force lifts Hulk and uses him as a battering ram on the rest of the Avengers.

So Dooku is going to evade arrows from Hawkeye, bullets from Black Widow, and attacks from Cap, while trying to force lift the Hulk?

Originally posted by KingD19
It does physical damage though. It might be TK inflicted, but it's still like a strong hand is choking you. Unless that force exerted is enough to damage someone like Hulk, we have no reason to believe it will.

But you are talking about an invisible non-physical force vs an actually physical force. The Hulk can't grab on to an hand and break free. Now the hulk may be able to break free from a force choke but I see nothing that indicates he can.

Now your point about the amount of force needed to force choke someone as powerful as the Hulk may be valid. Since the Hulk heals rapidly and gets stronger as he gets more angry he may be able to break free if the force user is not powerful enough to exert the right amount of pressure.

Originally posted by Kotor3

Now your point about the amount of force needed to force choke someone as powerful as the Hulk may be valid. Since the Hulk heals rapidly and gets stronger as he gets more angry he may be able to break free if the force user is not powerful enough to exert the right amount of pressure.

So it takes you a few posts to understand a simple point. This is what debating on here is increasingly becoming.

At least you show some rectitude with this post.

BTW, the Force's effects can be measured physically. That is, how much force a user can exert. Force exerted by Vader is strong enough to crush a human's windpipe. No feats to suggest it can hurt (compress his windpipe sufficiently to cause him to choke) someone of Hulk's durability.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
So Sidious holds Tony in place... then Tony simply asks Jarvis to launch the missile barrage. Unlike his repulsors, he didn't need to make any gestures to launch them. His one shoulder pad simply opened up and off they went. Sidious gets blown to smithereens, while standing there looking like a jackass with his arm stretched out. Considering suit-Vader has been shown to be slow and clunky in all of the original trilogy films, I have a hard time seeing him speedblitz anyone. He'd be better suited to do a lightsaber throw while Sidious holds IM. At least this would possibly take out Tony while Sidious gets blown up.



So Dooku is going to evade arrows from Hawkeye, bullets from Black Widow, and attacks from Cap, while trying to force lift the Hulk?

Nah, Tony gets decapped. Force pull, saber comes out, off with his head.

Force speed and precog, dude.

Also force choke/crush.

Indeed.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Nah, Tony gets decapped. Force pull, saber comes out, off with his head.

You assume Sidious is strong enough to pit his force tk against the power of Iron Man's suit. Moving a multi ton SHIELD carrier turbine would suggest that Tony's suit has enough power behind it to offer some serious resistance to any attempts to tk him. And you also assume that the saber can instantly cut through armour as durable as Tony's. Awful lot of assumptions without proof here. Where as we have a screen feat of Tony launching a massive barrage of small missiles, effortlessly and without any gestures, which you still haven't addressed.

Considering force users have been overwhelmed by large concentrations of blaster fire, Sidious is going to have a hell of a hard time stopping/dodging those, while trying to restrain an actively resisting Iron Man, and wielding his saber to boot.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0

Force speed and precog, dude.

Cool. So you will have no problem showing me an onscreen feat where Dooku, or any force user for that matter, dodged multiple fast moving projectiles (in Hawkeye's case, based on his Avengers feats, fired with borderline superhuman accuracy) while simultaneously force lifting a heavy object for an extended period of time?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You assume Sidious is strong enough to pit his force tk against the power of Iron Man's suit. Moving a multi ton SHIELD carrier turbine would suggest that Tony's suit has enough power behind it to offer some serious resistance to any attempts to tk him. And you also assume that the saber can instantly cut through armour as durable as Tony's. Awful lot of assumptions without proof here. Where as we have a screen feat of Tony launching a massive barrage of small missiles, effortlessly and without any gestures, which you still haven't addressed.

Considering force users have been overwhelmed by large concentrations of blaster fire, Sidious is going to have a hell of a hard time stopping/dodging those, while trying to restrain an actively resisting Iron Man, and wielding his saber to boot.



Cool. So you will have no problem showing me an onscreen feat where Dooku, or any force user for that matter, dodged multiple fast moving projectiles (in Hawkeye's case, based on his Avengers feats, fired with borderline superhuman accuracy) while simultaneously force lifting a heavy object for an extended period of time?


Lol, there you go again, thinking that brute strength>>>TK. No.


Force precog allows him to know where and when all attacks will be. Force speed allows him mto dodge and blitz over and decap Hawkeye. LOL at your Avenger wanking.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Lol, there you go again, thinking that brute strength>>>TK. No.


Force precog allows him to know where and when all attacks will be. Force speed allows him mto dodge and blitz over and decap Hawkeye. LOL at your Avenger wanking.

Well, based on the fact that force users struggle more to lift things the heavier they become, in other words, offering more resistance to their powers, I think it's fair to assume that someone actively trying to resist them could, if powerful enough.

Yes, because force precog is always perfect and an auto-win, and Dooku always speedblitzes people...

Basically, you are ignoring screen feats while debating using implied powersets (inaccurately). LOL at your Star Wars wanking.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, based on the fact that force users struggle more to lift things the heavier they become, in other words, offering more resistance to their powers, I think it's fair to assume that someone actively trying to resist them could, if powerful enough.

Yes, because force precog is always perfect and an auto-win, and Dooku always speedblitzes people...

Basically, you are ignoring screen feats while debating using implied powersets (inaccurately). LOL at your Star Wars wanking.

Quote a scene in any movie ever, where someone used brute strength to defeat TK.

Force precog is strong enough to net a win here. It's not like here the Force users powers are hindered and they are being fired on by dozens of clone troopers.

No, I am being 100% objective here. People like you think the Avengers are some kind of invincible force of nature. They're not.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Quote a scene in any movie ever, where someone used brute strength to defeat TK.

I will do so once you quote me a scene where a force user dodges multiple fast moving projectiles, speedblitzes and decaps someone, and levitates someone of the Hulk's mass, all at the same time.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0

Force precog is strong enough to net a win here. It's not like here the Force users powers are hindered and they are being fired on by dozens of clone troopers.


Force precog is all good and well. But knowing what is going to happen and reacting to it is 2 different things. Trying to say that Dooku is going to be dodging all those attacks, while going on both saber and tk offensive, is blowing his abilities way out of proportion.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0

No, I am being 100% objective here. People like you think the Avengers are some kind of invincible force of nature. They're not.

You keep demanding feats. Yet you keep just using powersets to back your claims. I see trying to debate with you is utterly pointless. So I will leave this here. I think Avengers win. You think Sith.

And your utterly retarded assumption about me, with regards to the Avengers, makes me want to facepalm. If I believe the Avengers will lose, I will openly admit it. For example, if it was Avengers VS Zod's MoS invasion force, Avengers get shit stomped.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I will do so once you quote me a scene where a force user dodges multiple fast moving projectiles, speedblitzes and decaps someone, and levitates someone of the Hulk's mass, all at the same time.



Force precog is all good and well. But knowing what is going to happen and reacting to it is 2 different things. Trying to say that Dooku is going to be dodging all those attacks, while going on both saber and tk offensive, is blowing his abilities way out of proportion.



You keep demanding feats. Yet you keep just using powersets to back your claims. I see trying to debate with you is utterly pointless. So I will leave this here. I think Avengers win. You think Sith.

And your utterly retarded assumption about me, with regards to the Avengers, makes me want to facepalm. If I believe the Avengers will lose, I will openly admit it. For example, if it was Avengers VS Zod's MoS invasion force, Avengers get shit stomped.

Epic dodge. I can quote a scene in TPM where Jinn and Kenobi used force speed to cover hundreds of feet in one second.

Everything you have posted I have countered and buried and now you are gonna rage quit. Boo hoo.

Nah, you're wanking to them. Everything you post is a mfapfest with the end result of Tony Stark getting an oral creampie from you.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Epic dodge. I can quote a scene in TPM where Jinn and Kenobi used force speed to cover hundreds of feet in one second.

You mean the droideka scene where they use force speed, on its own, to run away? Not using it while simultaneously executing attacks and tk'ing things? Totally the same thing as what you are suggesting. Totally.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0

Everything you have posted I have countered and buried and now you are gonna rage quit. Boo hoo.

You haven't countered anything. All you say is force speed and precog for the win. Just cuz.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0

Nah, you're wanking to them. Everything you post is a mfapfest with the end result of Tony Stark getting an oral creampie from you.

Way to get personal. That's generally a sign that someone doesn't actually have a proper argument, so they resort to personal attacks and flaming.

So seeing as you are not actually going to post examples of feats you are claiming Dooku and Sidious are capable of (i.e. making up feats for them), I see no reason to continue this. It's not about rage quitting. It's about not trying to beat my head against a brick wall. I actually have better things to do on a Sunday morning.

As to the applied force countering force TK, all you need is a brain and a basic understanding of physics to get it. Force users have shown more trouble lifting heavier object than they have lifting lighter ones. What is force other than mass x acceleration. When a force user lifts something, it is the mass of the object x gravitational acceleration they are countering. Heavier object = more force resisting them. And they have to exert more of their own power to lift heavier things than they would lighter objects. So this proves that opposite force can be a resistance to force tk.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You mean the droideka scene where they use force speed, on its own, to run away? Not using it while simultaneously executing attacks and tk'ing things? Totally the same thing as what you are suggesting. Totally.



You haven't countered anything. All you say is force speed and precog for the win. Just cuz.



Way to get personal. That's generally a sign that someone doesn't actually have a proper argument, so they resort to personal attacks and flaming.

So seeing as you are not actually going to post examples of feats you are claiming Dooku and Sidious are capable of (i.e. making up feats for them), I see no reason to continue this. It's not about rage quitting. It's about not trying to beat my head against a brick wall. I actually have better things to do on a Sunday morning.

As to the applied force countering force TK, all you need is a brain and a basic understanding of physics to get it. Force users have shown more trouble lifting heavier object than they have lifting lighter ones. What is force other than mass x acceleration. When a force user lifts something, it is the mass of the object x gravitational acceleration they are countering. Heavier object = more force resisting them. And they have to exert more of their own power to lift heavier things than they would lighter objects. So this proves that opposite force can be a resistance to force tk.


So they can use it to move while evading, but not attacking? Nah, that's like saying Forrest Gump can run for his life while battling Viet Cong, but he cannot use the same speed while running from zombies.

That's all they need. Sidious can force blitz IM and decap him before IM takes flight.

No, it's a sign that you know nothing of SW and force powers. It was also a joke, lighten up.

OK try this: Can a force user force lift IM, Thor and/or Hulk off the ground?

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
So they can use it to move while evading, but not attacking? Nah, that's like saying Forrest Gump can run for his life while battling Viet Cong, but he cannot use the same speed while running from zombies.

That's all they need. Sidious can force blitz IM and decap him before IM takes flight.


Force speeding at someone and swinging their lightsaber I can buy. That still makes sense. But unless there is an actual feat of them showing the ability to tk stuff while also focusing on force speeding and going on lightsaber offensive, I see no reason why I should assume they can. Because you said that Dooku was going to be dodging everyone's attacks, tk ragdolling the Hulk, and now also speedblitzing and decapping Hawkeye to boot.

As to the decap, unless we are to assume that the OP is gimping Iron Man by giving him his shitty, sub-standard IM3 suits, there isn't even definitive proof that a saber can cut through his armour. His IM3 armour was shitty and got torn apart with ease by temperatures of around 5432 degrees Fahrenheit (3000 degrees Celsius). His Avengers armour tanked a full on lightning blast from Thor, the heat only doing some minor superficial damage to his chestplate. And lightning can reach temperatures of 53,540 degrees Fahrenheit (29,727 degrees Celsius). High end estimates I found for the temperature a saber reaches upon contact with solid material was 32,432 degrees Fahrenheit (18,000 degrees Celsius). I haven't done much research into the energy output of the average lightning bolt compared to a lightsaber upon contact, but am willing to bet the lightning bolt wins. So we don't even know if a saber would pierce his armour, never mind sever his head in one stroke.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0

No, it's a sign that you know nothing of SW and force powers. It was also a joke, lighten up.

So instead of using actual valid screen feats to disprove or educate me on what I apparently do not know about Star Wars (the rational thing to do in a debate, when you want to convince the other person of your case), you call me an Avengers wanker instead. LOL. You think I am offended by your comment? I am more flabbergasted by the fact that you take a fictional battle on a forum so seriously that you feel the need to flame a total stranger, simply for disagreeing with you. I don't take any of this shit seriously (see my sig). I come on here mostly to occupy myself while I wait for downloads to finish.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0

OK try this: Can a force user force lift IM, Thor and/or Hulk off the ground?

In theory they could lift any of them. Would they be able to simply rag doll Iron Man or Thor if the two in question used the power of their own flight to counter the force exerted on them? That is debatable. Because like I said, the fact that force users have more trouble with heavy objects than with light objects, because they need to exert more power to lift it, to counter the extra resisting force a heavier object creates, shows that opposing force can resist/counter their tk. Hulk wouldn't be able to do shit, because he has no way of providing any kind of resistance once lifted.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Force speeding at someone and swinging their lightsaber I can buy. That still makes sense. But unless there is an actual feat of them showing the ability to tk stuff while also focusing on force speeding and going on lightsaber offensive, I see no reason why I should assume they can. Because you said that Dooku was going to be dodging everyone's attacks, tk ragdolling the Hulk, and now also speedblitzing and decapping Hawkeye to boot.

As to the decap, unless we are to assume that the OP is gimping Iron Man by giving him his shitty, sub-standard IM3 suits, there isn't even definitive proof that a saber can cut through his armour. His IM3 armour was shitty and got torn apart with ease by temperatures of around 5432 degrees Fahrenheit (3000 degrees Celsius). His Avengers armour tanked a full on lightning blast from Thor, the heat only doing some minor superficial damage to his chestplate. And lightning can reach temperatures of 53,540 degrees Fahrenheit (29,727 degrees Celsius). High end estimates I found for the temperature a saber reaches upon contact with solid material was 32,432 degrees Fahrenheit (18,000 degrees Celsius). I haven't done much research into the energy output of the average lightning bolt compared to a lightsaber upon contact, but am willing to bet the lightning bolt wins. So we don't even know if a saber would pierce his armour, never mind sever his head in one stroke.



So instead of using actual valid screen feats to disprove or educate me on what I apparently do not know about Star Wars (the rational thing to do in a debate, when you want to convince the other person of your case), you call me an Avengers wanker instead. LOL. You think I am offended by your comment? I am more flabbergasted by the fact that you take a fictional battle on a forum so seriously that you feel the need to flame a total stranger, simply for disagreeing with you. I don't take any of this shit seriously (see my sig). I come on here mostly to occupy myself while I wait for downloads to finish.



In theory they could lift any of them. Would they be able to simply rag doll Iron Man or Thor if the two in question used the power of their own flight to counter the force exerted on them? That is debatable. Because like I said, the fact that force users have more trouble with heavy objects than with light objects, because they need to exert more power to lift it, to counter the extra resisting force a heavier object creates, shows that opposing force can resist/counter their tk. Hulk wouldn't be able to do shit, because he has no way of providing any kind of resistance once lifted.

Hold on, I never implied that they can force speed and TK at the same time...

Ah, so now we begin the debate of Lightsaber vs IM armor. Let's get into it.

Did you see the SW movies or not?

Debatable how? What can Hulk do if he is force lifted off the ground?

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Hold on, I never implied that they can force speed and TK at the same time...


Well, you did actually. When I pointed out that I don't see Dooku dodging all their attacks while also ragdolling the Hulk, you said he could due to force speed and precog. And then later also said that he will speedblitz and decap Hawkeye. So unless he does it all at the same time, he is going to leave himself open to attack from someone.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0

Ah, so now we begin the debate of Lightsaber vs IM armor. Let's get into it.


Well, based on actual screen feats, his armour should at least be able to provide some level of resistance. I see it being a case of a saber being able to pierce/cut it from multiple hits, but not one single blow.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0

Did you see the SW movies or not?


Yes, I have. As well as the Clone Wars series.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0

Debatable how? What can Hulk do if he is force lifted off the ground?

Dude... do you even read my posts properly? I will post it again, and this time underline the bits you seemed to have missed...

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

In theory they could lift any of them. Would they be able to simply rag doll Iron Man or Thor if the two in question used the power of their own flight to counter the force exerted on them? That is debatable. Because like I said, the fact that force users have more trouble with heavy objects than with light objects, because they need to exert more power to lift it, to counter the extra resisting force a heavier object creates, shows that opposing force can resist/counter their tk. Hulk wouldn't be able to do shit, because he has no way of providing any kind of resistance once lifted.

Absolutely nothing stopping Vader or Sidious from snapping Stark's neck like a twig.

Anyway, Sith take 1. Lose 2 (Thor solos).

Originally posted by ares834
Absolutely nothing stopping Vader or Sidious from snapping Stark's neck like a twig.


A neck snap like this?

UYZoxY3sawE

He starts choking him at 0:06 seconds. We hear an audible crunch (suggesting a broken neck, crushed throat etc) at 0:23 seconds, and the admiral dies. So it took him 17 seconds to do that. 17 Seconds is a lot of time to try and counter attack. Unless you are suggesting he can do it faster than he is actually shown doing it on screen.

Vader is shown crushing metal at the end of RotS. If he were so inclined he could snap a neck like a twig.

That Force Crush was a one time thing, due to his brain overloading when he found out he killed his wife(according to Palpatine). He wasn't even doing it intentionally; it was just a side effect of him lashing out. It's not like he can just Force Crush on a whim.

Originally posted by ares834
Vader is shown crushing metal at the end of RotS. If he were so inclined he could snap a neck like a twig.

Yes, in that scene he crushed a couple of droids and a medical tank indiscriminately, in a fit of rage. In the scene I posted, he focused his powers on a specific area. Now you can interpret it how you want, but to me that suggests that he requires more time and focus to pull off feats of fine control with his power than feats of sheer brute strength.

Think of it this way: If you had a gun and wanted to hit someone, which would be easier, and which would require more time and focus? Sniping them between the eyes? Or spraying bullets in their general direction, hoping for a hit?

Originally posted by KingD19
That Force Crush was a one time thing, due to his brain overloading when he found out he killed his wife(according to Palpatine). He wasn't even doing it intentionally; it was just a side effect of him lashing out. It's not like he can just Force Crush on a whim.

lol

So the noob Vader who has almost no mastery of the dark side can perform feats that a far more masterful and powerful one is incapable of?

Not to mention, Vader is also shown capable of throwing around (and ripping apart) fairly large machinery.

Originally posted by KingD19
That Force Crush was a one time thing, due to his brain overloading when he found out he killed his wife(according to Palpatine). He wasn't even doing it intentionally; it was just a side effect of him lashing out. It's not like he can just Force Crush on a whim.

An assumption with no proof to back it up.

Since emotions fuel the force and the emotion he used was angered which fuels the darkside, it would be more logical to assume that he can do so at will.

@TheVaultDweller and ares834
Great examples and points.