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Darth Sidious vs Sith Strike Team

Darth Sidious: Revenge of the Sith
- - - vs - - -
Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir
Savage Opress: The Clone Wars
Count Dooku: Revenge of the Sith

Battleground: Throne Room, DS-2
Morales: Both teams very enraged
Position: 5 meter difference in teams

Sidious.

Sidious easily

Sidious

Hey look! It's darth darth binks!

Sidious wins.

TBH I don't see how people here can argue that Koon/Kenobi/Windu win against Yoda but Maul/Savage/Dooku fall easily to Sidious. No logic in that.

Savage > Koon
Kenobi = Maul
Windu >= Dooku
So those teams are pretty much equal

Yoda = RotS Sidious, so again equal

Thus, the outcome will be the same.

Both Yoda and Sidious win their battles, they're on n another level compared to these guys. /thread.

Originally posted by Stigma
Savage > Koon

I don't think so. Koon held his own against Ventress with one arm and Ventress is superior to Savage.
Topic: I'm going with Sidious.

You're right. My fault, sorry.

Team easily.

Team easily.


Originally posted by Nalaniel
I don't think so. Koon held his own against Ventress with one arm and Ventress is superior to Savage.
Topic: I'm going with Sidious.


Savage has beaten both Koon and Ventress.

Team. The duo gave him some fight, and Dooku is a *major* addition to that.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Savage has beaten both Koon and Ventress.

Ventress wasn't at her peak when he did so.

Originally posted by Nalaniel
Ventress wasn't at her peak when he did so.


Says who? That was end of season 4. So was getting close to ROTS (which Ventress isn't even in, so absolutely no reason to think that's her peak time period). And her training with Count Dooku had long finished.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sidious.



Maul and Opress are fodder and while Dooku isn't, the distance between he and his Master is considerable indeed.

This.

It's undoubtedly true that Sidious completely held the advantage throughout the fight, and that he was intentionally extending the duel for his enjoyment, this has been confirmed by Filoni. However, it's still depicted in Shadow Conspiracy that he was being pressed at times in the duel as well. With the addition of a third adversary in Count Dooku, who is considerably more capable than either of his contemporaries, I doubt Palps could take a majority.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
This.

It's undoubtedly true that Sidious completely held the advantage throughout the fight, and that he was intentionally extending the duel for his enjoyment, this has been confirmed by Filoni. However, it's still depicted in Shadow Conspiracy that he was being pressed at times in the duel as well. With the addition of Count Dooku, who is considerably more capable than either of his contemporaries, I doubt Palps could take a majority.

The only time I recall Shadow Conspiracy indicating Sidious was "pressed" was when he held both brothers off in blade lock.

The only way Sidious doesn't win a majority, imho, is if he's barred from using his Force powers offensively. Otherwise, he's going to crush Opress and Maul and then take Dooku down after a mild battle.

Essentially, yeah. Maul and opress couldn't do anything when faced with The Emperor's force powers.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The only time I recall Shadow Conspiracy indicating Sidious was "pressed" was when he held both brothers off in blade lock.

The only way Sidious doesn't win a majority, imho, is if he's barred from using his Force powers offensively. Otherwise, he's going to crush Opress and Maul and then take Dooku down after a mild battle.

If these three can close the gap, I strongly doubt Palpatine would have an easy time dismissing any of them while simultaneously fending the three of them off in a duel.

In fact, they would be in an better position to use their own powers, having another two fighters as support.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
If these three can close the gap, I strongly doubt Palpatine would have an easy time dismissing any of them while simultaneously fending the three of them off in a duel.

In fact, they would be in an better position to use their own powers, having another two fighters as support.

Maybe, but Palpatine pinned them to the windows pretty effortlessly and they couldn't do anything about it. I'm not sure why, rather than release them, he couldn't just clench his fists and crush them outright. I don't foresee it taking more than a few seconds. Then it's Dooku vs. Sidious and the poor Count shall know true suffering.

It should be obvious they were caught off guard by it. Hell, in the original scene, Maul had done the same thing to Palpatine later on, but it was cut for time.

And yeah, if Dooku ends up alone, he's finished.

If it was merely a push that would be fine, but he was holding them down and they were unable to break free.

Originally posted by DarthSith500
It's pretty obvious that they were trying to breake free from Sidious' hold.

It's harder to wrench a pushing sword out of your gut than to block it in the first place.

If your defenses are broken or non-existent, there is little you can do to counter a telekinetic assault.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's harder to wrench a pushing sword out of your gut than to block it in the first place.

If your defenses are broken or non-existent, there is little you can do to counter a telekinetic assault.

I could then just as easily bring up the second portion of the fight where Sidious ragdolls Maul and is laughing his ass off.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It should be obvious they were caught off guard by it. Hell, in the original scene, Maul had done the same thing to Palpatine later on, but it was cut for time.

And yeah, if Dooku ends up alone, he's finished.

The problem is that, per Filoni's consistent commentary, the entire point of the duel was to show that Sidious outclassed the Zabraks utterly. That segment may have been removed due to more than just time constraints.

And as has been pointed out, the brothers visibly struggled to free themselves and couldn't. Sidious is tremendously more powerful than they are.

You mean like Caedus was powerful enough to break free of Luke? I seem to recall Luke couldn't simply ragdoll him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You mean like Caedus was powerful enough to break free of Luke? I seem to recall Luke couldn't simply ragdoll him.

Actually, Luke did ragdoll Caedus in Inferno, pinning him to his chair pretty effortlessly.

That's exactly what I'm referring to. He was never able to do anything remotely similar to that in a combat scenario where Caedus was prepared.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
That's exactly what I'm referring to. He was never able to do that in a combat scenario where Caedus was prepared.

The only fought once, I believe, after that, and it featured a pissed off Luke who was actively seeking a brutal, ugly brawl.

That's a poor excuse. It was a bloodlusted Luke who IIRC even directly noted that he wanted to end the battle as quickly as possible.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
That's a poor excuse. It was a bloodlusted Luke who IIRC even directly noted that he wanted to end the battle as quickly as possible.

Nah. In fact, he muses when Caedus lands a blow on him: "Good. This was supposed to hurt."

Again, never denied that the brother's alone don't truly have a chance against him. Neither does Count Dooku.

With them and Dooku it's a different story, though.

Originally posted by DarthSith500
Prove it.

It's a self-proving statement. In actual combat with Jacen, he was unable to replicate.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Again, never denied that the brother's alone don't truly have a chance against him. Neither does Count Dooku.

With them and Dooku it's a different story, though.

And I'd agree if not for the fact that we see Sidious is capable of ragdolling these fools with impunity. If Sidious is barred from using the Force offensively, the team would take a majority. If not, I don't see them winning.

Throwing around logic like that, anyone can make ridiculous assertions and throw out that line.

Anakin admittedly has power far more vast than Dooku's as depicted in LoE. He should thus be able to ragdoll the Count. Just because he has never done this doesn't mean he's incapable, after all.

It's stupidity. Luke fought Caedus, and nothing indicated he could casually dismiss him with the Force if he wished. It is your claim that is unsupported.

Can I point out that a lot of the time, characters have been 'ragdolled' with the force and then gotten up again? It matters much less in a team fight than a one-on-one.

Originally posted by Q99
Can I point out that a lot of the time, characters have been 'ragdolled' with the force and then gotten up again? It matters much less in a team fight than a one-on-one.

Two of these three (I'll be generous enough to exclude Sidious throttling Dooku from halfway across the galaxy) were "ragdolled" and survived only because Sidious let them go. Why should I assume that he can't just clench his fist and crush their spines?

I don't know why this is so difficult for you to fathom. If it helps, pretend Krayt is here instead of Sidious and has the same feats to his name.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Two of these three (I'll be generous enough to exclude Sidious throttling Dooku from halfway across the galaxy) were "ragdolled" and survived only because Sidious let them go. Why should I assume that he can't just clench his fist and crush their spines?
Pinned against wall, not ragdolled. No proof he would be able to do more than just pin them. He might as well let them go because it wouldn't finished them and he would get tired otherwise. You know, people can get very different impression of the same thing.

And appreciate your generosity. After all Dooku did not try to break Force choke.

Originally posted by Arhael
Pinned against wall, not ragdolled. No proof he would be able to do more than just pin them. He might as well let them go because it wouldn't finished them and he would get tired otherwise. You know, people can get very different impression of the same thing.

Since the pinning was performed with no visible effort, why should I assume that that's all he could do to them?

Originally posted by Arhael
And appreciate your generosity. After all Dooku did not try to break Force choke.

Of course not. Dooku's just into that sort of thing.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Two of these three (I'll be generous enough to exclude Sidious throttling Dooku from halfway across the galaxy) were "ragdolled" and survived only because Sidious let them go. Why should I assume that he can't just clench his fist and crush their spines?

Because... he's never done something like that to powerful force users? If he could do that at all, it'd take significant effort, the bros are tough.

And because there's a third person present. He holds two of them and starts crushing, Dooku lightnings him in the face when he has no arms to defend himself. He either has to let them go or die.


A third person is not just additive, it's a multiplier since the one person has to split their concentration more and they cannot rely on things that'd lock down one or two opponents.

And in a group fight, "First, the character uses some techniques that take some time to take out some of the foes. Then..." doesn't fly. What's Dooku supposed to be doing while Sidious is crushing?




These three would beat Krayt too.

These three would stomp Krayt

Seriously, I don't think any Sith could beat these three sith short of perhaps if they were able to turn one against the others quickly.

Palpatine could prolly win here, but I'd argue that he couldn't for a majority.

Originally posted by Q99
Because... he's never done something like that to powerful force users? If he could do that at all, it'd take significant effort, the bros are tough.

To recap: Sidious pins the brothers without visible effort whilst they visibly struggle to free themselves. They are released not through any discernible efforts of their own but because Sidious willfully frees them.

And your conclusion Sidious would have been unable to kill them outright because shut up that's why?

Originally posted by Q99
And because there's a third person present. He holds two of them and starts crushing, Dooku lightnings him in the face when he has no arms to defend himself. He either has to let them go or die.

You're scripting the fight. I could just as easily say Sidious b1tchslaps Dooku away the moment the starting pistol goes off and then he crushes the brothers. As Dooku rises to his feet, blade ignited, he realizes notices the vaguely-humanoid heaps of horned flesh on the ground and promptly shits himself when he realizes it's just him and his boss. Cue the Count's magnificent massacre to the tune of the Imperial March.

Originally posted by Q99
A third person is not just additive, it's a multiplier since the one person has to split their concentration more and they cannot rely on things that'd lock down one or two opponents.

And in a group fight, "First, the character uses some techniques that take some time to take out some of the foes. Then..." doesn't fly. What's Dooku supposed to be doing while Sidious is crushing?

This, again, assumes Sidious can't temporarily put Dooku out of the fight. Given that he TK'd the Count across the galaxy with no visible effort... I'd hardly conclude that this is out of the question.

Yeah, the force gap between Sidious and them individually is huge (even to the extent that he can easily manipulate the bros with it simultaneously), and if Sidious is actually taking the fight seriously, Savage is a non-factor even in sabers.

I don't see a way for the team to win, TBH.

http://bloggerwearsprada.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/the-rock.gif

You're getting pretty creative with the burden of proof, but not enough to redeem your argument.



Yup, there were plenty of times during his duel with Yoda that Sidious evinced strain or fear, indicating that Yoda was a significant challenge. Not so much from the Zabraks, who are less challenge and more in the order of absolute fodder.



As you concede, it's reasonable to conclude that distance plays a role in the strength and effectiveness of Force powers. Else Jedi or Sith would be smiting one another across interstellar distances without ever having to confront one another face-to-face.



Dooku was already plotting behind Sidious's back with both Ventress and Opress. Your insinuations that the Count is a fetishist with a bent for asphyxiation notwithstanding, I'd say it would be pretty damn hard for anyone (let alone a Sith Lord for whom survival is priority one) to not reflexively try to defend one's self.

But even being generous and granting you the assumption that Dooku didn't defend himself, we're back to square one: why wouldn't he try to defend himself from a man he wants to murder anyway?

The answer is obvious: because Sidious is that much more powerful than he is and Dooku knew it wouldn't end well for him. Either way, we're back to the inescapable fact that Sidious is well beyond the Count and there's nothing you can do to mitigate that truth.



Your contextless excerpt notwithstanding, there are some critical differences between Luke being throttled by the Qrephs and Sidious throttling the Zabraks. First: We know from the passage that Luke was indeed caught off guard; there's no proof that the Zabraks were. Second: Luke had no idea where the Qrephs were and much of his desperate flailing had to do with locating the unseen threat in order to combat it whereas Sidious was standing in their line of sight, visible and known, and the Zabraks were still helpless.



I accept your concession about their spines. But you have no proof that the attack was unexpected. You have no proof that these two particularly durable Force users were damaged or incapacitated by their impact against the glass, particularly when we see them recover quite nicely. You're simply and clumsily cobbling together a series of assumptions in an attempt to undermine Sidious's victory as circumstantial in defiance of authorial commentary that explains Sidious's victory was the result of vastly superior power, skill and expertise. He's better than the brothers, Arhael, together and separate. And by a lot. Filoni has said so exhaustively. Any insinuations to the contrary will be disregarded without comment. It's been a year; if you can't process black-and-white now, you never will.



And I might be compelled to believe you, if the brothers were indeed known to have been caught off guard. Regardless, your argument topples: if Dooku didn't try to resist Sidious, it was because he knew it wouldn't do him any good because of Sidious's vastly superior power. And as to why "I conveniently ignore" cut content? Because it defies Filoni's commentary and, oh, it's cut content.

Sidious is better than these guys, Arhael, and in the words of the Dark Lord himself:

http://i.imgur.com/fU9jYP0.png

Sidious, easily.

Also, Windu was close to Yoda's level with a blade, In fact he's considered Yoda's only equal.

Yoda isn't one for demolishing his opponents through the force because that wouldn't leave them alive, so I'd argue that team could take him.

But yeh, Sidious here, we already saw how easily he could destroy Maul and Savage, if he didn't want practice he would have just choked them to death in 3 seconds, considering how easy he held them against a wall.

Let's not forget how truly terrified of Sidious Dooku and Maul were, they were that scared for a reason.

Even in ROTS he was touted as the greatest wielder of the Dark Side, he was undeniably more powerful than them, by a large degree.

And strength in numbers won't matter.

Just ask Agen Kolar, Saessee Tin and Kit Fisto.

Originally posted by Selenial
Let's not forget how truly terrified of Sidious Dooku and Maul were, they were that scared for a reason.

Even in ROTS he was touted as the greatest wielder of the Dark Side, he was undeniably more powerful than them, by a large degree.

And strength in numbers won't matter.

Just ask Agen Kolar, Saessee Tin and Kit Fisto.



Yes, ROTS Sidious would get the job done and DE Sidious would simply destroy them.

Hmm, that gives me an idea.

DE Sidious vs Vitiate, Krayt and Kun...

Theres a rule against spite threads.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres a rule against spite threads.
In DE Sidious' favor?

No.

Admit Vitiate's limitations, restrictions, failure, weakness, and inferiority. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres a rule against spite threads.

I don't even know what that is

But tbh, that'd be interesting to see. Vitiate isn't exactly one for combat, Sidious would just take Kun out of the picture immediately, so it'd be an interesting 2v1

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Admit Vitiate's limitations, restrictions, failure, weakness, and inferiority. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif

I suppose it's a good thing that he has two of the greatest sith lords in history at his side.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Admit Vitiate's limitations, restrictions, failure, weakness, and inferiority. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif

Either this is serious.

Or you put Vitiate on the level of DE Sidious.

Pick >.>

ROTS Sidious = Most powerful Dark Side Wielder in history. Fact.
DE Sidious = Infinitely more powerful.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I suppose it's a good thing that he has two of the greatest sith lord in history at his side.

Krayt would be an issue for Sidious, in that he'd be annoying to kill whilst staving off Vitiate, but Kun's on another level from Sidious and Vitiate, he's powerful, but would get obliterated.

Originally posted by Selenial
I don't even know what that is

But tbh, that'd be interesting to see. Vitiate isn't exactly one for combat, Sidious would just take Kun out of the picture immediately, so it'd be an interesting 2v1

It's a thread where its horribly unbalanced in one sides favor. As if the person made the thread just to have the other side get massacred.

Lol, Sidious isn't one-shotting Kun.

Originally posted by Selenial
Krayt would be an issue for Sidious, in that he'd be annoying to kill whilst staving off Vitiate, but Kun's on another level from Sidious and Vitiate, he's powerful, but would get obliterated.

That'd only happen if Vitiate and Krayt just watched him kill Kun.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's a thread where its horribly unbalanced in one sides favor. As if the person made the thread just to have the other side get massacred.

Lol, Sidious isn't one-shotting Kun.

Well, he could obliterate Leia, so that's something.

But it's a discussion for another time, back to the thread.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
That'd only happen if Vitiate and Krayt just watched him kill Kun.

I doubt either of them would care about saving him if he can't save himself. But again, for another time.

Yup, there were plenty of times during his duel with Yoda that Sidious evinced strain or fear, indicating that Yoda was a significant challenge. Not so much from the Zabraks, who are less challenge and more in the order of absolute fodder.

Fear, yes. Strain? Where? He is laughing and smiling whole time, except when dodged platform and at the end of final contest. Again, at which point you saw strain on his face? All, I could see is his permanent wrinkles.


Dooku is not stupid. He knows that he is below Sidious. Had he counterattacked Sidious, inevitable hunt down would follow.


And there is critical difference that maintains my point that you missed out. Zabraks are not Luke skywalker. Majority of characters are helpless, when choked or electrocuted. It is consistently observed throughout series.
Anakin and Kenobi couldn't break Ventress' Force choke, despite the fact that she is below both of them, only ship reverberation saved them.
Yet, later Ventress couldn't break out of Anakin's Force choke.
Dooku was able to Force choke Anakin, Ventress and Kenobi. Yet, was unable to break free from Opress' choke, despite the fact that Opress' attention was split on choking Ventress as well.
When Sidious caught Dooku with Force choke, it could as well mean that Dooku wouldn't be able to break free like he couldn't break free from amateur Opress.


Equally you have no proof that attack was expected. In particular we can see that Sidious turns away and Maul looks at him with confused face: "Master?"

Equally you have no proof that these two particularly durable Force users as you say weren't damaged by the Force blast. Other characters like Kenobi were shown to get knocked down by Force blast alone. Brothers in comparison were blasted, suffered additional impact against window and were pressed hard against it. There was clear expression of pain on their faces. Yes, they recovered quickly, which is impressive but in no way it means they were undamaged by it. Second similar Force blast from Sidious completely knocked Maul down.

Accuse me of assumptions all you want, you equally assume here but with much more bias. Filoni's statements that they were no match for him does not prove that he could Force handle them at any moment of his choosing. You can't prove it no matter how you interpret things.


As you confirm, Dooku knew it wouldn't do him any good, thus didn't try. Reluctance of Dooku does not prove that Sidious can Force handle him during fight any moment he wants.

If you think otherwise, then both fights of Yoda and Dooku don't make sense. If Yoda - Sidious equal in power by all accounts could safely overpower Dooku with TK, that's exactly what he would do. He already showed it on Ventress, no reason for him not to try it on Dooku. The only logical conclusion is that Dooku would be able to resist.


That has absolutely nothing to do with my argument. It's not about whether he is better than them, he is undeniably better. However, you have no proof to claim that he can simply dispose of either of them during fight with Force like "fodder" as you say. There is no way 3 against 1, where one character could fight Yoda without being Force handle is waaayy too much.

Not another time. Now!

Leia is comparable to Exar Kun now?

Also I recall her judo-slamming him through a coffee table, lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Leia is comparable to Exar Kun now?

Also I recall her judo-slamming him through a coffee table, lol.

She had the force potential of Luke, according to a master who's name I can't remember (will check)

But yeh, she's hella powerful. She stopped Sidious' own essence, was equal to a Spirit Vodo Siosk Baas + 6 Jedi in terms of force strengths MINIMUM (Judging that Luke needed that number to make a wall of light. Luke needed Leia for the same reason, but theirs was way bigger)

She's impressive.

Maybe not Kun, but it's close, and that's the point, no?

Originally posted by Selenial
Yoda isn't one for demolishing his opponents through the force because that wouldn't leave them alive, so I'd argue that team could take him.
That's absurd. Lightsaber is far more lethal than TK. TK is far safer way to knock down opponents without killing.

Originally posted by Arhael
That's absurd. Lightsaber is far more lethal than TK. TK is far safer way to knock down opponents without killing.

Yoda could have annihilated Dooku with the force, Dooku explains that in Dark rendezvous and hints at it in multiple sources.

Yoda just wanted to redeem him, which he would have if not for Anakin/Obi Wan.

Originally posted by Selenial
Yoda could have annihilated Dooku with the force, Dooku explains that in Dark rendezvous and hints at it in multiple sources.
Prove it. Dooku doesn't explain that, don't make things up. No source hints that.

Originally posted by Selenial
She had the force potential of Luke, according to a master who's name I can't remember (will check)

But yeh, she's hella powerful. She stopped Sidious' own essence, was equal to a Spirit Vodo Siosk Baas + 6 Jedi in terms of force strengths MINIMUM (Judging that Luke needed that number to make a wall of light. Luke needed Leia for the same reason, but theirs was way bigger)

She's impressive.

Maybe not Kun, but it's close, and that's the point, no?



Seriously? Leia has like, no training at all at this point. Even though she has power, she can't effectively use it. Sidious pwning her would be like him pwning TPM Anakin.

Later on even with training she had a tough fight with Alema Rar and got beat up by an Ewok. She isn't even in the same ballpark in the same county as Exar Kun,

lmao @ comparing Leia to Exar Kun

I never said she was Kun's equal.

But she had the power to hold off Palpatine without any training. Held the Milenium Falcon together, which was supposedly incredibly difficult.
Mind tricked a fully fledged Jedi Knight into dropping her saber,
Dueled Boldarion or whatever his ridiculous name was without any proper training.

She never took the Jedi path like Luke did but it was clear she had the potential to be his equal.

During his lightsaber duel with Yoda on the Chancellor's podium and the final lightning assault on the Senate pod, Sidious can be seen straining or grunting with exertion. No such expression on his face with the brothers. The difference is that Yoda is a challenge and a half whereas the Zabraks barely qualified as light exercise.

And be careful when making remarks about His Imperial Majesty's complexion, plebe. uhuh





Bingo. Dooku knew that resistance was futile.



And if Opress throttled Dooku as effortlessly as did Sidious and from a similar interstellar distance, I'd also put Opress above Dooku. But we know from narration and other feats that the Count is Opress's superior by a notable margin and that Ventress and Opress together weren't good enough to take Dooku down. There's plenty of reason to conclude that Opress couldn't duplicate that feat in your average fight. Sidious, on the other hand, has no such consideration working against him. There's nothing to say that he's not capable of humiliating Dooku whenever he wants, which is probably why Dooku is looking for an ally in taking Sidious out rather than trying to do the job himself. He knows he doesn't stand a chance.



You mean his feigned confusion over the fact that Sidious wasn't falling for his BS?



Translation: "Yeah, I know the brothers didn't show any signs of injury and recovered well enough seconds later, but they were totes really really hurt by it and were prolly paraplegic and they mos def qualified for Dathomirian Disability after that i sure hope Talzin had them insured!!1!"

Not buying it, Arhael. And yeah, I'd say being torpedoed into concrete and then flung to the ground would probably hurt a bit more than being shoved against a window.



In Filoni's own words, these guys together pretty much couldn't even touch him. He's not just better, bro. He's leagues better. The martial difference between Sidious and the brothers is more or less the martial difference between Thor and Stephen Hawking, except the Zabraks don't get the spiffy chair.



?

Who's comparing Dooku to season 1 Ventress? No one. Dooku is in a whole 'nother league. But yeah, I'm sure if Yoda got pissed and wanted to Force choke Dooku, he'd do just fine. But that's not a textbook Jedi tactic, is it?



Nah. The Zabraks are nothing but a mild annoyance to Sidious at their very, very best. All he need do is fling Dooku aside for the three seconds it would take to grind them into talcum powder. Then he smites Dooku with impunity.

Originally posted by Selenial
I never said she was Kun's equal.

But she had the power to hold off Palpatine without any training. Held the Milenium Falcon together, which was supposedly incredibly difficult.
Mind tricked a fully fledged Jedi Knight into dropping her saber,
Dueled Boldarion or whatever his ridiculous name was without any proper training.

She never took the Jedi path like Luke did but it was clear she had the potential to be his equal.

And I never accused you of saying that. But you said they were comparable. They aren't.

When did she hold off Palpatine? Wouldn't that directly contradict your own point about him being far above her? And she held together the Falcon in 40 ABY, not when Palpatine was alive. Same with the mind trick feat.

Leia had power, but at the time she met Sidious she still had minimal training and control of the Force.

Originally posted by Selenial
Krayt would be an issue for Sidious, in that he'd be annoying to kill whilst staving off Vitiate, but Kun's on another level from Sidious and Vitiate, he's powerful, but would get obliterated.

Not really. None of them really have any feats to indicate that they can even see him let alone not get blitzed. Maybe Krayt, but that's just personal opinion.