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Select a strike team of 4 members to take down Vitiate.

All 4 characters must be from the same era. All 4 must be jedi or sith.

What teams could pull it off?

Father, Son, Daughter, Mortis Anakin. :I

You forgot a rule there, Q.

Fixed ^^

Still forgot a rule :/

Luke, Caedus, Katarn, Mara.

Whatever, I don't remember all the old rules and last time people were making fun teams beyond the most obvious anyway

Like I said in the other thread: Dooku, Palpatine, Plagueis, Sidious.

Sidious could solo.

Kenobi, Anakin, Maul and Savage

Originally posted by Nalaniel
Like I said in the other thread: Dooku, Palpatine, Plagueis, Sidious.

Sidious could solo.

Palpatine and Sidious? Interesting combination.

Originally posted by Stigma
Kenobi, Anakin, Maul and Savage
Nah

Originally posted by Nalaniel
Like I said in the other thread: Dooku, Palpatine, Plagueis, Sidious.

Sidious could solo.
Palpatine and Sidious?

If this is canon Sidious, he cannot solo.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Still forgot a rule :/

Luke, Caedus, Katarn, Mara.
If this team somehow overcomes telepathic subjugation, it should succeed. Katarn and Mara are unlikely to survive in this battle. Luke and Caedus will have to do the hard work. Caedus is also in danger of getting overwhelmed but Luke and him should succeed together.

Good team.

Emperor's Wrath, Darth Nox, Grand Champ and Cipher 9. Could they beat him? Maybe.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Emperor's Wrath, Darth Nox, Grand Champ and Cipher 9. Could they beat him? Maybe.
If this battle goes conventional:

Grand Champ and Cipher 9 will be non-factors. Emperor's Wrath and Darth Nox would have to do the hardwork.

I do not see Emperor's Wrath surviving in this battle. Darth Nox is likely to be left alone and may fail on his own.

---

Heck, this team might just succumb to telepathic subjugation.

They've survived many dangerous fights and are confirmed among the greatest champions in the Empire. I'm not sure they'd be non-factors.

Nox and the Wrath can both resist the Dread Masters mental attack. So there is that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They've survived many dangerous fights and are confirmed among the greatest champions in the Empire. I'm not sure they'd be non-factors.
They are non-factors against Emperor Vitiate. They have never fought an individual of this kind of power before.

How are they going to resist telepathic subjugation?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox and the Wrath can both resist the Dread Masters mental attack. So there is that.
Dread Masters were subservient to Emperor Vitiate in turn. So there is that.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Palpatine and Sidious?

Originally posted by Sinious
Palpatine and Sidious? Interesting combination.

That's so embarrassing... *cry*

Then let's fix it: Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous, Dooku.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If this is canon Sidious, he cannot solo.

What do you mean by canon Sidious?

Originally posted by Nalaniel
That's so embarrassing... *cry*

Then let's fix it: Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous, Dooku.
Lolz, cute

As far as the team is concerned, it packs sufficient conventional punch to handle Emperor Vitiate.

However, this battle can go either way, IMO.

Originally posted by Nalaniel
What do you mean by canon Sidious?
Sidious (DE) is not canon. He is canon in other eras; PT & OT.

Considering this is the EU subforum and that RotJ Sidious already has most of what DE Sidious has under his belt, not really.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lolz, cute

What?

Originally posted by Nalaniel
What?
Your embarrassing remark, cute statement.

Yoda, Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker, and Shaak Ti godstomp.

Oh, thanks. ^^

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


However, this battle can go either way, IMO.



Wait, you mean Tenebrous, Plagueis, Sidious and Dooku vs Vitiate could go either way or am I misreading something here?

Originally posted by Sinious
Wait, you mean Tenebrous, Plagueis, Sidious and Dooku vs Vitiate could go either way or am I misreading something here?
Possibility of telepathic subjugation?
Powers/sorcery of Emperor Vitiate wouldn't do anything?

Or are you among those who mistakenly assume that Plagueis, Tenebrous and Sidious are immune? Each can get injured and killed.

Teams do not necessarily guarantee victory against a Force-user who can eliminate or overwhelm each member of a team.

The Jedi Strike Team assembled by Tol Braga had no shortcoming either, it flopped because Emperor's powers proved to be too formidable and no member got the opportunity to break away from Emperor's powers. Conventional strength wise, this Jedi Strike Team is one of the toughest ever assembled.

The Jedi Strike Team is not the first one to flop against Emperor Vitiate. An even stronger Sith Strike Team was assembled by Darth Lokess (12 Sith Lords representing entire Dark Council) and guess what happened?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yoda, Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker, and Shaak Ti godstomp.
Nah

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Possibility of telepathic subjugation?
Powers/sorcery of Emperor Vitiate wouldn't do anything?

Or are you among those who mistakenly assume that Plagueis, Tenebrous and Sidious are immune? Each can get injured and killed.

Teams do not necessarily guarantee victory against a Force-user who can eliminate or overwhelm each member of a team.

The Jedi Strike Team assembled by Tol Braga had no shortcoming either, it flopped because Emperor's powers proved to be too formidable and no member got the opportunity to break away from Emperor's powers. Conventional strength wise, this Jedi Strike Team is one of the toughest ever assembled.

The Jedi Strike Team is not the first one to flop against Emperor Vitiate. An even stronger Sith Strike Team was assembled by Darth Lokess (12 Sith Lords representing entire Dark Council) and guess what happened?

Dark Council reference is irrelevant as prep was needed for it.

So basically Vitiate can defeat everyone because he can mind dominate them? Zannah can kill the ones with her illusions then. It doesn't work that way.

Plagueis, Tenebrous and Dooku would be enough for this but with Sidious who is at least equal to Vitiate, they stomp.

Originally posted by Sinious
Dark Council reference is irrelevant as prep was needed for it.
I am not sure what kind of preparation was involved. Emperor Vitiate became aware of the coup attempt and destroyed the Sith Strike Team with a single blast of power or sorcery.

Originally posted by Sinious
So basically Vitiate can defeat everyone because he can mind dominate them? Zannah can kill the ones with her illusions then. It doesn't work that way.
If the entire Strike Team succumbs to telepathic powers, what would be the outcome then?

Zannah is not a valid analogy because she doesn't have the power and hype of Emperor Vitiate. Yes, Zannah stands a chance against lot of Force-users with her sorcery talent; standard defenses do not work against her tendril sorcery at-least. Bitter pill.

Originally posted by Sinious
Plagueis, Tenebrous and Dooku would be enough for this but with Sidious who is at least equal to Vitiate, they stomp.
Of-course, this Strike Team have sufficient conventional strength to defeat Emperor Vitiate, it can win. But same is true for Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga and Sith Strike Team led by Darth Lokess.

Point is that none of these Force-users are guaranteed to outright tank Emperor's powers and strike him down as if he is nothing. Failure of the aforementioned Strike Teams validate my reasoning.

Vitiate could not mind dominate Revan the second time he faced the Emperor and also HoT was immune to his mindrape. That sith strike team most likely could resist him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If this is canon Sidious, he cannot solo.
If this is canon Sidious, Vitiate does not exist.

Originally posted by Sinious
Vitiate could not mind dominate Revan the second time he faced the Emperor and also HoT was immune to his mindrape. That sith strike team most likely could resist him.
I thought about this as well.

Revan (prime)*; HoT (prime)*; Emperor's Wrath (prime) and Darth Nox (prime)

*Incarnations that can resist telepathic subjugation

This Strike Team team should prevail.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
If this is canon Sidious, Vitiate does not exist.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I thought about this as well.

Revan (prime); HoT (prime); Emperor's Wrath (prime) and Darth Nox (prime)

This Strike Team team should prevail.

So Revan, HoT, Wrath and Nox > Sidious, Plagueis, Dooku, Tenebrous ?

Not a chance.

It does, imo.

Originally posted by Sinious
So Revan, HoT, Wrath and Nox > Sidious, Plagueis, Dooku, Tenebrous ?

Not a chance.
This is not about who is better then who. Revan and HoT are also immensely powerful Force-users and are best suited for this battle. Revan and HoT developed some defensive mechanism against telepathic powers of Emperor Vitiate and had the luxury to prevent or make it much harder for Emperor to subjugate them again.

Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous and Dooku do not have any experience against powers of Emperor Vitiate. They will be caught by surprise and can succumb or flop.

These matters are not black and white, I expected you to understand this based on your posting history.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is not about who is better then who. Revan and HoT are also immensely powerful Force-users and have advantage in this battle. They developed some defensive mechanism against telepathic powers of Emperor Vitiate or could prevent him from subjugate them again.

Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous and Dooku do not have any experience against powers of Emperor Vitiate. They will be caught by surprise and can succumb.

These matters are not black and white, I expected you to understand this based on your posting history.

I'm just trying to say that HoT and Revan weren't the only 2 that had survived his mindrape amongst thousands of sith/jedi. They are the 2 that we know. Mind domination won't do any good against a team like that. Sidious is most likely immune to this and perhaps Plagueis would have trouble with it if he was facing the Emperor alone but with such a team, Vitiate can't dominate his mind as well. They would eventually start fighting and Vitiate seems to have a weakness against close ranged combat when fighting high tiers.

Plagueis is very fast and with his saber skills he would cause a lot of trouble. Sidious can do the same + his insane force powers could definitely rival Vitiate's. With the aids of Dooku and Tenebrous, I really don't understand how you can believe that Vitiate has a chance here.

Its not black and white and by your admittance I'm aware of that but that doesn't mean that Vitiate would have a chance against 10 Sidious + 10 Lukes right? Same applies with this strike team.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It does, imo.

Sidious and Plagueis are enough to equalize(at least) that team tbh.

Originally posted by Sinious
I'm just trying to say that HoT and Revan weren't the only 2 that had survived his mindrape amongst thousands of sith/jedi. They are the 2 that we know.
Tol Braga is possibly 3rd one. However, these developments do not favor the position of other individuals in a versus contest such as this one.

Emperor Vitiate successfully broke Revan, HoT and Braga in battles when these individuals clashed for the first time. Revan, HoT and Braga weren't lacking in power and defensive aspects, it is just that they had no experience against esoteric powers of Emperor Vitiate and flopped. Revan and HoT, each broke free from Emperor's telepathic subjugation with external aid later on and were now in the position to think of countermeasures against this kind threat.

Originally posted by Sinious
Mind domination won't do any good against a team like that. Sidious is most likely immune to this and perhaps Plagueis would have trouble with it if he was facing the Emperor alone but with such a team, Vitiate can't dominate his mind as well. They would eventually start fighting and Vitiate seems to have a weakness against close ranged combat when fighting high tiers.
On what basis are you assuming that Sidious is immune to telepathic subjugation?

You need to understand how Force powers work. Telepathic powers are not restricted to individualism or area-specific. This is up to Emperor Vitiate, he may choose to focus on one individual at a time or all simultaneously like he did against Revan and Malak. Given the circumstances of this battle, Emperor Vitiate is likely to focus on the whole Strike Team.

Force-users do not become immune to Force powers when in groups. They may combine their might using specific talents to increase their chances of success but they would still have limits.

Originally posted by Sinious
Plagueis is very fast and with his saber skills he would cause a lot of trouble. Sidious can do the same + his insane force powers could definitely rival Vitiate's. With the aids of Dooku and Tenebrous, I really don't understand how you can believe that Vitiate has a chance here.
Yes, Team does have a chance but what is stopping Emperor Vitiate from burning or killing members of this team with his lethal powers? Emperor isn't a slow poke either.

Originally posted by Sinious
Its not black and white and by your admittance I'm aware of that but that doesn't mean that Vitiate would have a chance against 10 Sidious + 10 Lukes right? Same applies with this strike team.
Quality > Quantity

If Emperor Vitiate unleashes dark sorcery with which he can destroy an entire city then what would 10 Luke do if they don't have a defense against this kind of power?

Heck, replace Emperor Vitiate with Sidious (DE). Now if Sidious (DE) manages to unleash Force Storm in the battlefield, what would 10 Luke do then?

I tell you what 10 Luke can do. They can prevent Sidious and Emperor Vitiate from unleashing their most destructive powers and strike each down as soon as possible. In the nutshell, outcome boils down to decisions made and actions performed on either side.

Strike Teams assembled by Tol Braga and Darth Lokess were potent enough to subdue any kind of opposition (Conventionally speaking). They still flopped because Emperor's powers proved to be too much and no one got the opportunity to strike at Emperor.

Sidious and Clone Troopers A, B, and C.

Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Droma, Arca Jeth and Nomi sunrider. two battle meditations boosting swordsmen that are only equal to each other. Vitiate is dead

Well if this is your logic, like I said, Zannah could kill this team as well.





Common sense lets me see it. It is like saying Nihilus can solo the ones cause the ones didn't show any feats to prove that they can survive his drain.

He can focus on the strike team all at once. He would fail though.






Hmm, their defensive powers maybe?



Are you saying that Sidious and Plagueis lack enough power to be considered in "quality" type combatants?



You've answered it yourself. They wouldn't let Vitiate charge his attacks and it would come to 2-3 of them cornering him with their saber attacks. Vitiate doesn't stand a chance once 2 of them comes close enough to strike with sabers and this is inevitable since he has no prep or chance to charge and could hold them off for so long.

Sidious solos.

The real question should be: what is the weakest team that can take Vitiate down?

Originally posted by Sinious
Well if this is your logic, like I said, Zannah could kill this team as well.
No.

Zannah cannot summon tendrils sorcery in every setting. In addition, tendrils can be dodged and she cannot fill an entire area with tendrils.

Originally posted by Sinious
Common sense lets me see it. It is like saying Nihilus can solo the ones cause the ones didn't show any feats to prove that they can survive his drain.
The Ones are virtually immortal. I don't think Force Drain can undo this.

Originally posted by Sinious
He can focus on the strike team all at once. He would fail though.
Not necessarily.

Originally posted by Sinious
Hmm, their defensive powers maybe?
Yes, but Emperor have demonstrated the capability to overwhelm defenses of prodigiously talented Force-users. He is possibly the greatest master of sorcery to grace the mythos.

Originally posted by Sinious
Are you saying that Sidious and Plagueis lack enough power to be considered in "quality" type combatants?
They are quality individuals. They can strike down Emperor Vitiate, they have the speed and martial abilities to pull this off.

My point is that Sidious and Plagueis have limits as well. If they find themselves defending against overwhelming powers of Emperor Vitiate, they are in danger of getting overwhelmed as well.

Originally posted by Sinious
You've answered it yourself. They wouldn't let Vitiate charge his attacks and it would come to 2-3 of them cornering him with their saber attacks. Vitiate doesn't stand a chance once 2 of them comes close enough to strike with sabers and this is inevitable since he has no prep or chance to charge and could hold them off for so long.
I have stated before that this Team packs sufficient conventional punch to defeat Emperor Vitiate. However, it can flop as well, Emperor doesn't have noticeable limitations at unleashing destructive powers and can build pressure on the entire Strike Team. I am just being realistic about this battle on the whole.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Droma, Arca Jeth and Nomi sunrider. two battle meditations boosting swordsmen that are only equal to each other. Vitiate is dead
No

Jeth dispelled the dark side in Nadd's tomb, he could provide support and with Nomi's battle med there is nothing to suggest Vit doesn't get speedblitzed.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Zannah cannot summon tendrils sorcery in every setting. In addition, tendrils can be dodged and she cannot fill an entire area with tendrils.


The Ones are virtually immortal. I don't think Force Drain can undo this.


Exactly. Just like Vitiate cannot mind crush DE Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous and Count Dooku at the same time.



He has never defeated a strike team like this. The worst he ever faced doesn't even come close. (Not including the preped ones)



So does Vitiate. I know that you're giving credit to the team. Well what I am arguing here is that whether he has a chance or not and Vitiate does not stand a chance against such a team.



Sidious has no combat related limitations that Vitiate is above of and has the advantage of insane lightsaber mastery. With his 3 sith buddies aiding him, I don't see how you can assume Vitiate might actually win this.

Originally posted by carthage
Jeth dispelled the dark side in Nadd's tomb, he could provide support and with Nomi's battle med there is nothing to suggest Vit doesn't get speedblitzed.

The HoT has superior speed feats than any of them and she couldn't blitz a weakened Vitiate with her lightsaber a foot from his face.

Yeah, but he wasn't boosted by battle med in this scenario. With battle med HoT might be able to as well

Exar can counter his sorcery and spam him with blasts, and Ulic can deliver a killing blow while Arca provides support. It'd be a hard fought battle but Fated's team should be able to do it.

Originally posted by Sinious
Exactly. Just like Vitiate cannot mind crush DE Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous and Count Dooku at the same time.
So telepathic powers and tendrils are same thing? You are not making any sense here.

How did Emperor Vitiate telepathically subjugate Revan and Malak simultaneously? (With a fraction of his power I may add)

Originally posted by Sinious
He has never defeated a strike team like this. The worst he ever faced doesn't even come close. (Not including the preped ones)
Sith Strike Team led by Darth Lokess should be equally good if not better.

Originally posted by Sinious
So does Vitiate. I know that you're giving credit to the team. Well what I am arguing here is that whether he has a chance or not and Vitiate does not stand a chance against such a team.
Your argument is flawed.

Once again, what is stopping Emperor Vitiate from engulfing the entire Strike Team with his destructive powers?

Originally posted by Sinious
Sidious has no combat related limitations that Vitiate is above and has the advantage of insane lightsaber mastery. With his 3 sith buddies aiding him, I don't see how you can assume Vitiate might actually win this.
Darth Sidious does have limitations. Darth Plagueis could defeat him in a battle. I am sure Emperor Vitiate can defeat Darth Sidious too. Numbers are an advantage but Emperor Vitiate have demonstrated the capability to subdue whole Strike Teams of powerful Force-users with his powers. What further evidence do you need?

The (fanon) no-limits fallacy for Darth Sidious makes no sense and neither you can ever expect me to subscribe to this belief. I am being realistic.

Originally posted by carthage
Yeah, but he wasn't boosted by battle med in this scenario. With battle med HoT might be able to as well

Exar can counter his sorcery and spam him with blasts, and Ulic can deliver a killing blow while Arca provides support. It'd be a hard fought battle but Fated's team should be able to do it.
So Emperor Vitiate will just stand and let the members of the Strike Team do whatever it wants?

Recheck Emperor's encounter with the Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga. Emperor swiftly engulfed the entire Strike Team with his powers. After this, no individual managed to get close to him. Two Jedi were incapacitated immediately and two others did not last more then few seconds.

Bane, Zannah, Cognus, and Worror.

No but Kun is way more than a match for Vitiate if he's prepped as well. He's got force drain, tendrils, and blasts which destroyed portions of Sadow's temple and disintegrated beings. Vitiate alone would be hard pressed to deal with him.

Ulic is faster than Braga (he's dodged blaster bolts) and his force shields have tanked his cannons. Not to mention amped by battle med, how is he going to counter a man who can blow up a building with sorcery and a premier swordsman.

And this strike team is much weaker than the one Sinious came up with

Anyway

My team would be Thanaton, Zannah, Malgus, and Sadow

Sadow could battle med Zannah could support the team with force shields, and Thanaton could provide support as well as fight alongside Malgus.

Maybe a little less effective than the other team I made, and there would be casualties. But they should win a majority imo

Kun's tendrils aren't that great tbh.

They've never been used but in theory should be just as good as Zannah's imo

Zannah had an amp in Ambria when she used them, all Kun did was show Duron how to use them

Originally posted by carthage
They've never been used but in theory should be just as good as Zannah's imo

Zannah had an amp in Ambria when she used them, all Kun did was show Duron how to use them
No. When used on a nexus, they couldn't even disintegrate anything.

Well she doesn't know blasts.

Also he was a spirit so the tendrils (in theory) wouldn't be as powerful

Originally posted by carthage
Well she doesn't know blasts.
Was never arguing that she did.

Everyone seems to have their own little areas within Sith Sorcery that they focus on.

Originally posted by carthage
No but Kun is way more than a match for Vitiate if he's prepped as well. He's got force drain, tendrils, and blasts which destroyed portions of Sadow's temple and disintegrated beings. Vitiate alone would be hard pressed to deal with him.
Exar Kun doesn't holds a candle to Emperor Vitiate in power and mastery of the dark side. Exar Kun is not powerful enough to subdue big Strike Teams of powerful Force-users, neither he can manipulate the Force in ways like Emperor Vitiate can. As far as blasts are concerned, Emperor Vitiate can unleash such powers with bare hands (He on-shotted my Level 55 character with a Force blast during one of my playthroughs to give you an idea). Emperor Vitiate also have collapsed structures and disintegrated opponents with his powers.

Bigger issue is how Exar Kun would cope with destructive powers of Emperor Vitiate, the former isn't going to last long. Revan have demonstrated superior defensive abilities then Exar Kun and he was utterly outgunned by Emperor Vitiate.

Originally posted by carthage
Ulic is faster than Braga (he's dodged blaster bolts) and his force shields have tanked his cannons. Not to mention amped by battle med, how is he going to counter a man who can blow up a building with sorcery and a premier swordsman.
I am sure Braga is capable of dodging blaster bolts and tank lot of firepower. Braga is among the strongest and most resolute Jedi of the Order and this indicates that he have formidable capabilities.

Originally posted by carthage
And this strike team is much weaker than the one Sinious came up with
No

Every member of the Strike Team led by Tol Braga is officially one of the strongest and most resolute Jedi of the Order. And HoT is Yoda level.

LOL Braga's a dumbass though. He may be skilled and powerful, but he can be really ****ing stupid.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Bane, Zannah, Cognus, and Worror.
Good team but not good enough.

Worror will be non-factor. The other 3 are unlikely to withstand destructive powers of Emperor Vitiate for long.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
LOL Braga's a dumbass though. He may be skilled and powerful, but he can be really ****ing stupid.
His beliefs may have been extreme but he is a force to be reckoned with in battle.

Battle meditation is hardly a non-factor.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Battle meditation is hardly a non-factor.
Hmm! The greatest warriors of this team need to act swiftly and not give Emperor Vitiate a chance to attack. If he does, game over for the Strike Team.

How is the HoT Yoda level? Especially well before their in game prime?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Hmm! The greatest warriors of this team need to act swiftly and not give Emperor Vitiate a chance to attack. If he does, game over for the Strike Team.

You are such a fanboy, lol.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Hmm! The greatest warriors of this team need to act swiftly and not give Emperor Vitiate a chance to attack. If he does, game over.
This team is incredibly lethal, with Bane bringing the offense with his lightsaber and lightning, Zannah whipping out the tendrils, Cognus weakening Vitiate with force suppression and using highly advanced precog to predict Vitiate's moves, and Worror providing the group with battle meditation, healing, and force bubbles if the situation requires it.

He just said that Kun didn't hold a candle to Vitiate. He will likely say the same thing regarding Bane (who toppled a temple on a nexus). You may as well be arguing with a brick all.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
How is the HoT Yoda level? Especially well before their in game prime?
Well before from prime?

I don't think HoT had years at his disposal to grow in power afterwards.

Originally posted by carthage
You may as well be arguing with a brick wall.
You are describing every debate I've ever had with you.

Originally posted by carthage
He just said that Kun didn't hold a candle to Vitiate. He will likely say the same thing regarding Bane (who toppled a temple on a nexus). You may as well be arguing with a brick all.
Emperor Vitiate had over a thousand years to grow in power and hone his talents in the dark side. According to Legends, he is the most powerful Force-user ever. You don't have a point.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well before from prime?

HoT was already at advanced stages of his progress at that time. After this event, HoT ventured in to one more planet and some ships before visiting Dromund Kaas. This entire process would have taken some months?

Actually its 3 more planets.

Yep, those several months plus the several months they spent on the Emperor's space station.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually its 3 more planets.
My bad.

So how much time? His entire story covers 3 years. Some of this time was spent under influence of Emperor Vitiate.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yep, those several months plus the several months they spent on the Emperor's space station.
And this isn't enough time for considerable power progression.

Yeah it is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah it is.
It isn't.

It takes years to have noticeable growth in understanding of the Force and power. HoT was already very powerful by the time he arrived on Tython.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It isn't.

It takes years to have noticeable growth in understanding of the Force and power. HoT was already very powerful by the time he arrived on Tython.
I can't even...

Even with the HoT, Scourge would have killed them just a few weeks earlier. It's not like the HoT came to Tython capable of doing all they do in game.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It isn't.

It takes years to have noticeable growth in understanding of the Force and power. HoT was already very powerful by the time he arrived on Tython.

Scourge states that he could have defeated the Hero and Sajar together on Quesh, yet the Hero alone defeats him a single planet later. The Hero states that she's grown considerably between her fights with the Emperor. Plus you forget that while the Hero was under Vitiates control she was training.

Many times in the mythos, prodigies have grown very quickly.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No.

Zannah cannot summon tendrils sorcery in every setting. In addition, tendrils can be dodged and she cannot fill an entire area with tendrils.


The Ones are virtually immortal. I don't think Force Drain can undo this.


Not necessarily.


Yes, but Emperor have demonstrated the capability to overwhelm defenses of prodigiously talented Force-users. He is possibly the greatest master of sorcery to grace the mythos.


They are quality individuals. They can strike down Emperor Vitiate, they have the speed and martial abilities to pull this off.

My point is that Sidious and Plagueis have limits as well. If they find themselves defending against overwhelming powers of Emperor Vitiate, they are in danger of getting overwhelmed as well.


I have stated before that this Team packs sufficient conventional punch to defeat Emperor Vitiate. However, it can flop as well, Emperor doesn't have noticeable limitations at unleashing destructive powers and can build pressure on the entire Strike Team. I am just being realistic about this battle on the whole.

Well, I don't wanna sound like Carthage but this is Vitate without prep and you must admit that there is a big difference when he is not prepped. He is still insanely powerful but claiming that he has a chance against DE Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous and Count Dooku is just illogical.

You've already admitted that Sidious vs Vitiate is a close one and it could go either ways right? So, Im starting to think that you're underrating the other 3 sith so much that you believe that they wouldn't make any difference against Vitiate. Is this the case? (Just asking to understand your logic)

Also, I've never said that Sidious has no limits. I just said Sidious isn't less capable in combats.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
This team is incredibly lethal, with Bane bringing the offense with his lightsaber and lightning, Zannah whipping out the tendrils, Cognus weakening Vitiate with force suppression and using highly advanced precog to predict Vitiate's moves, and Worror providing the group with battle meditation, healing, and force bubbles if the situation requires it.
This team is undoubtedly good but Emperor Vitiate wields more formidable powers then any member of this team and have a good chance at subduing it.

Emperor's inferiors possessed these talents but assassination attempts on him had always ended in failure. Emperor Vitiate most likely have excellent defensive abilities.

Strike Teams assembled by Jedi and Sith to assassinate or capture Emperor Vitiate weren't lacking in talents either. They still flopped.

For example: Warren Sedoru had the talent to read minds of other individuals. He was the first Jedi (of the Strike Team led by Tol Braga) to ignite his lightsaber and get ready to defend himself or attack Emperor Vitiate, he may have figured out that Emperor Vitiate was about to attack the Jedi. Yet, this didn't help since Emperor's powers were simply too much to handle.

This strike team is superior to the one in his fortress by a considerable margin.

Originally posted by Sinious
Well, I don't wanna sound like Carthage but this is Vitate without prep and you must admit that there is a big difference when he is not prepped. He is still insanely powerful but claiming that he has a chance against DE Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous and Count Dooku is just illogical.
I am not sure if Sidious (DE) have been considered.

Also, I don't get the preparation argument either. What kind of preparation?

Originally posted by Sinious
You've already admitted that Sidious vs Vitiate is a close one and it could go either ways right? So, Im starting to think that you're underrating the other 3 sith so much that you believe that they wouldn't make any difference against Vitiate. Is this the case? (Just asking to understand your logic)

Also, I've never said that Sidious has no limits. I just said Sidious isn't less capable in combats.
I am not underrating any Sith.

I am focusing on the greater dynamics. Emperor Vitiate can unleash vastly destructive Force powers, he have demonstrated the capability to crash entire Dark Council. Some Force powers/techniques are simply too much to handle. Force Storm (Wormhole) is an example.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
This strike team is superior to the one in his fortress by a considerable margin.
You are stretching it now.

Each member of the Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga is among the strongest and most resolute Jedi of the Order. It is likely that each have formidable capabilities and talents. Conventionally, a Jedi Strike Team of this caliber should be able to take care of most threats in the galaxy.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not sure if Sidious (DE) have been considered.

Also, I don't get the preparation argument either. What kind of preparation?

Since any version of Sidious isn't specified, it is his peak version which is DE Sidious.

Well, he is a master at sorcery and charging his powers before combat. He gathered the council to eliminate them and pulled off something far above his general feats. It is obvious that he boosted his powers to such an extend. The ritual in Natemha must have had great impact on his capability to multiply his powers through certain preparations.



Again, he won't have the time to charge like that. He will have to use quick attacks and he'll be overwhelmed at some point. Unlike him, the team can separate a bit and the other 3 sith can hold him off while Sidious charges something deadly. So this argument only proves you wrong.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourge states that he could have defeated the Hero and Sajar together on Quesh, yet the Hero alone defeats him a single planet later.
Moral of the story? Scourge was proven wrong, his opinions are not infallible.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Hero states that she's grown considerably between her fights with the Emperor.
When?

I am not denying the possibility of HoT's further power progression by the time he confronted Emperor Vitiate for the second time. HoT would have further grown in power but my contention is that he cannot realistically grow considerably in power in a short span of time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Plus you forget that while the Hero was under Vitiates control she was training.
HoT acquired command of dark side?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Many times in the mythos, prodigies have grown very quickly.
Quickly still translates to years.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Moral of the story? Scourge was proven wrong, his opinions are not infallible.

By what? Scourge says this after you recruit him.

They say it throughout Chapter 3 and to Satele towards the finale.

Are you assuming that they were learning something else on the Emperor's Space Station? Either way, they had used Dark Side energy, hence the red coloration during the cutscene.

It's been almost a year in game. Similar growth happens in the mythos, even during this small time frame.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Moral of the story? Scourge was proven wrong, his opinions are not infallible.

Scourge states this after the Hero had beaten him. By that time he would be well aware of the Hero's strength. He would have to be fairly certain he could have defeated her previously. He obviously sensed her power at the time and knew it was not enough.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
When?

I am not denying the possibility of HoT's further power progression by the time he confronted Emperor Vitiate for the second time. HoT would have further grown in power but my contention is that he cannot realistically grow considerably in power in a short span of time.

Before the attack on the Dark Temple. She claims to be stronger than the first time she fought Vitiate.

And that contention is wrong. Bane grew considerably in mere months, so did Jaden Korr, Galen Marek, Revan etc. Nox goes from an untrained slave to beating Jedi Masters in under a year.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
HoT acquired command of dark side?

While turned to it by Vitiate, yes. Unknown if she retained any grasp of the dark side after shaking off his domination though.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Quickly still translates to years.

Try weeks or months. The Hero had plenty of time to grow.

Legacy team:

T'ra Saa (Grand Master battle meditator)
Cade Skywalker (Skywalkers never hurt)
Celeste Morne (Used to keeping powerful sith out of her head, the Muur talisman can be a nice surprise)
Roan Fel

Very power battlemeditator, probably the strongest one. Skywalker, Morne with her necklace, and another force-powerful strong blade. I think they should at least be able to give a good fight of it.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Droma, Arca Jeth and Nomi sunrider. two battle meditations boosting swordsmen that are only equal to each other. Vitiate is dead

I think it'll work.

I'd replace Ulic with Thom, just to be absolutely sure of having a force edge, but similar idea.


Originally posted by Nephthys
The HoT has superior speed feats than any of them and she couldn't blitz a weakened Vitiate with her lightsaber a foot from his face.

But, one, that's a single sword wielder, and two, this is with two very powerful people giving force support. Even if it's not a blitz I think they'll win.


Nomi and Arca together should be able to prevent him from using the force to dictate the battle.

Originally posted by Stigma
Kenobi, Anakin, Maul and Savage
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nah
Yeah.



Another teams that can take Vitiate down:

Mother Talzin, Maul, Ventress, Grevious