Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

In this fight Reed has everybody powers from his team including Human Torch, Invisible Woman, & Thing. No prep the fight takes place in New York city. Can his brains and abilities coupled to the other teams abilities give him the win?

No.

Why not? He is a Super Genius

Originally posted by golem370
Why not? He is a Super Genius

What do you see his genius accomplishing with just the FF's powers and no prep? Also, which Superman?

Because it wouldn't help him. At all.

If this was 1610 reed he would win without the powers of the rest of his team

No he wouldn't. Lol.

I would see him doing something using invisibility his smarts and his durability.

Originally posted by golem370
I would see him doing something using invisibility his smarts and his durability.

Thrown into space.

Or send to the negative zone coming up with a plan on the fly.

When has Reed, without prep (and thus, without his gadgets) ever done this, on the fly?

That's like saying Superman, on the fly, sends him to the Phantom Zone.

And at least Superman has superspeed and can create his devices much MUCH faster than Reed can.

Superman still wins

Don't forget, Superman is no slouch himself when it comes to science.

Human Torch has Super speed and I would assume he could keep from him for awhile. He had no gear on his own and was able to blow a chunk of mountain out freeing Hulk Spider-Man, Captain Marvel. Iron Man, & Himself just using stuff on hand. He is when compared to Reed

Originally posted by golem370
Human Torch has Super speed and I would assume he could keep from him for awhile. He had no gear on his own and was able to blow a chunk of mountain out freeing Hulk Spider-Man, Captain Marvel. Iron Man, & Himself just using stuff on hand. He is when compared to Reed

Lol.

Yes, he used stuff. ON HAND. Which is useless here. Unless Iron Man's repulsors, Spidey's webshooters etc are standard equipment for Reed? Yeah, thought not.

Human Torch, comparable to Superman in speed??? GTFO lol (I am being gently humorous here). Do you REALLY think they are comparable??


Lol. This thread is a complete and utter spite stomp thread in favour of Superman.

Originally posted by golem370
Or send to the negative zone coming up with a plan on the fly.

So you said no prep but are giving him prep?

Originally posted by golem370
Human Torch has Super speed and I would assume he could keep from him for awhile. He had no gear on his own and was able to blow a chunk of mountain out freeing Hulk Spider-Man, Captain Marvel. Iron Man, & Himself just using stuff on hand. He is when compared to Reed

.....he had gear to work with from various others. He also had Hawkeye's trick arrows. And Human Torch's speed compared to Superman's? Either New Earth or New 52 that's.....not the smartest comparison. Which reminds me, which Superman are you using for the thread?

Pre-52. He had other peoples gears and no giving him the chance to come up with something during a fight isn't prep.

That would still make him just a lesser Super Skrull. With a really smart brain with no access to any of his tech, unless he hides enough to get to his lab.

That's the only way he's going to win.

Originally posted by golem370
Pre-52. He had other peoples gears and no giving him the chance to come up with something during a fight isn't prep.
How is he going to come-up with anything unless you give him access to stuff and the time to make it?

Originally posted by golem370
Pre-52. He had other peoples gears and no giving him the chance to come up with something during a fight isn't prep.

Lol neither is Superman's.

Superman utterly crushes this guy.

He could be the smartest man in the universe, without preparation or access to his laboratory he's going to get stomped.

He's much slower, much weaker. He can slow Superman down, but Superman wins this 10/10

How about he create a force in his brain or eye or heart?

Originally posted by golem370
How about he create a force in his brain or eye or heart?

Superman's insides are pretty darn tough as well. Has Sue ever done anything similar to someone on Superman's level of durability? Also, is it in-character for Reed to attempt potentially lethal tactics like that if Sue's force fields are powerful enough to harm Superman like that?

If all else fells also he could attack his hearing

Originally posted by golem370
If all else fells also he could attack his hearing

er And what exactly does the FF have to attack his hearing without prep? And that's without bringing-up Silver Banshee and other examples.

I mean with a force field

Originally posted by golem370
I mean with a force field

So a force field is a sonic attack?

forced field in his ear or ear drum. There would be hundreds of option.

Originally posted by golem370
forced field in his ear or ear drum. There would be hundreds of option.

So Reed knows Superman has super hearing, and would be able to tell when to strike when it would actually work? If you're bringing-up what Wonder Woman did in SACRIFICE, while Reed is smarter overall, I have a feeling Diana is smarter when it comes to tactics, and can pick up on things in a fight Reed could not. Plus, you'd have to come-up with an argument that Sue's force field attacking Superman's ears is as powerful as Wonder Woman bashing her bracelets(which have taken hits from Superboy Prime and a combined blast from the Greek Pantheon, among other examples), which, I might add, while hurt him, failed to knock him down. And that was a sneak attack.

So, most likely, that attack could hurt, but I doubt it will have the same effect as Wonder Woman had, and even Diana's attack failed to incapacitate Superman more than momentarily. What exactly would Reed follow that up with against a Superman who very well may only be annoyed?

Lol. Just give it up, golem. Mr Fantastic has no way of winning this, unless you have extreme handicapping of Superman (which, it seems, you do).

DarkSaint, you should go check what told you on page 12 of the World War Superman thread.

Dark I don't doubt Superman could win but saying Reed can't win one of marvels smartest characters ever specially with the added abilities is a little silly imo.

Not really.

Do you have any proof of his smarts in battle, using only standard equipment that he has to hand?

I mean, its no use him solving 348 differential equations in his head designing an amazing warmech battlesuit to defeat Superman, or whatever, as he's being pummeled into paste.

'Damn, if ONLY I had Ton'y arc reactor now!'

'WHUMP'

'Having Bannertech shields would be really helpful right about now'

'BOOM'.

'If I had an iPod, I bet I could rig something up too.'

'KRAKATHOOM!'

Etc etc

Originally posted by golem370
Dark I don't doubt Superman could win but saying Reed can't win one of marvels smartest characters ever specially with the added abilities is a little silly imo.

You're not giving him prep, and not giving the best examples for him effectively using the abilities. Part of the problem is you're not giving examples for Sue to argue they're powerful enough to be effective on Superman because similar things have been used.

Reed has with an axe strike from terrax add Thing's durability and Sue's force field and invisibility and Johnny's flight he has a good chance.She affected Exitar I know a bs feat still happened

She affected Exitar because her powers are on the same frequency or whatever - so not the best example to use. She's their Kryptonite.

Superman is still much MUCH faster, more durable (you brought up the high feats of Reed...you wouldn't want to bring up the high feats of Superman lol).

Being invisible won't help, as Superman has fought White Martians who are almost exactly the same as your amalgam. Superstrong, fast, tough, invisible, with TK, MArtian vision....and he beats them. AND they're much higher than your amalgam too.

Originally posted by golem370
Reed has with an axe strike from terrax add Thing's durability and Sue's force field and invisibility and Johnny's flight he has a good chance.She affected Exitar I know a bs feat still happened

Are you suddenly giving him the axe? You didn't say it in the OP.

Anyways, are you also suddenly giving Reed the skill to competently use it? Even with that, I don't think it makes enough of a difference. It's a handy weapon, yeah, but I don't think Reed gets Terrax's powers including amping his strength. Superman was at worst superficially cut(arguably only his uniform was cut) by a blow that sent him into orbit with an axe capable of cutting holes between dimensions or something like that.

DS already pointed-out Sue's energy specifically effected Celestials, being their weakness, in that storyline. I think Sue could probably effect Superman from what I've seen, but nothing serious. He's fought GLs more powerful than her plenty of times.

Invisibility, DS already covered, but I should also point-out in addition to hearing, Superman can see not just through-out the electromagnetic spectrum, but sound "chemicals" or something like that, magnetic stuff, and more. He's also straight-up seen enemies wearing suits that made them invisible.

I think you'd have a better time finding examples of Sue more creatively using her force field in ways you argued, like attacking the ears or attacking his brain or heart, against opponents on-par with Superman's durability.