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Timeline: The battle of Hogwarts. Instead of Voldemort and his army of dark wizards, the attacking force is the Ninja assassins, led by Voldemort. He enables them, with his dark wizard magic, to see the castle. He also uses his wizard magic to lower the shield around Hogwarts. He then sends the Ninja in to kill everyone inside.

The Hogwarts team, they are fully aware they are about to be attacked. They must defend the castle and defeat the Ninja. Both teams are 100% aware of the powers the other team has.

Who wins?

Ninjas all toss shurikens at bullet speeds and move around too fast for the wizards to hit.

It's in the middle of the night too? They shadow blend and just start slicing people apart from every direction.

Detection spells everywhere, all students and teachers instantly in various shield charms so they cant be hurt, and they fling out spells from the inside until all the ninjas are either dead or unconscious. Flawless victory.

Although I want to point out that taking away a ninjas element of surprise kind of defeats the purpose of them. They aren't stealthing anymore and it becomes a full out fight that they cant win because they cant hurt anyone. This thread isn't any more unbiased than the other. The other handicapped the wizards, whereas this one handicaps the ninjas. I think this is a no-win situation.

Ninjas clearly win via Ninja Magic (NM).

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Detection spells everywhere, all students and teachers instantly in various shield charms so they cant be hurt, and they fling out spells from the inside until all the ninjas are either dead or unconscious. Flawless victory.

Although I want to point out that taking away a ninjas element of surprise kind of defeats the purpose of them. They aren't stealthing anymore and it becomes a full out fight that they cant win because they cant hurt anyone. This thread isn't any more unbiased than the other. The other handicapped the wizards, whereas this one handicaps the ninjas. I think this is a no-win situation.

Is there any proof a detection spell would work on a moving shadow? Or someone moving so fast the person casting the spell can't keep up?

And what shield charms would protect them from shuriken and blades? They protect against spells sure, but other stuff... Even during the final battle nobody even bothered to use spells. They either dodged or deflected everything thrown at them. Or got hit.

Originally posted by KingD19
Is there any proof a detection spell would work on a moving shadow? Or someone moving so fast the person casting the spell can't keep up?

And what shield charms would protect them from shuriken and blades? They protect against spells sure, but other stuff... Even during the final battle nobody even bothered to use spells. They either dodged or deflected everything thrown at them. Or got hit. I'll have to get back to you on the detection spell. I'm not completely sure of how it works. I know the Ministry of Magic uses them to track people around the world or know when people use an illegal spell or something like that. At the same time though, I know it can be fooled too. Sirius black used his animagus abilities to avoid being found (as did Rons rat), and if transforming into a big black wolf or a rat can keep you hidden for decades, I suppose being a living shadow should work too. On the other hand, I also know that having dangerous intent matters too. The detection and protection spells at the entrance work by keeping out and tracking people with dangerous intent, so I'm not sure if their normal detection spells work similarly.

The basic shield charm on the other hand, can also protect against physical objects/people. I'm not sure how strong they are in this respect though or if transforming into a shadow would bypass it. The whole "shadow people" thing has me stumped.

Still, the ninjas would have to become tangible beings again if they want to actually attack, and at that point they would be bombarded with a ton of spells. They are massively outnumbered.

Also, wizards have spells to keep people from doing things. They have binding spells that keep people from teleporting away, and spells to force people to reveal their true selves (used on animagi to force them back to being human for example). They could pull that out to force the ninjas back into human form.

Jesus, there are so many variables when it comes to Harry Potter. I'm going back and forth. :/

You guys are forgetting that the Ninja have to actually get TO the wizards. They must defeat the big ass stone statues on the bridge.

And if they do defeat them, the wizards are gonna be uber prepared. No matter how fast the ninja are, the wizards can basically teleport at will and can fly around in smoke form, spamming fiendfyre on the Ninja.


So, in an even match, the ninja lose horribly. The wizards have WAY too many spells.

The whole problem though is that the wizards have to actually hit with these spells. They're clearly average human reaction time, and those spells are mostly slow and clearly visible.

Ninja will be teleporting about from shadow to shadow, tossing shuriken at bullet velocities(which could in theory bypass a charm due to the force behind it), and the ninjas are also super strong to a degree. Raizo was strong enough to send a grown man flying, and they cut clean through body parts and entire people with ease.

Were we watching the same movie, because the wizards in the movie I saw weren't even 1/10th as competent as people are claiming.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
So, in an even match, the ninja lose horribly. The wizards have WAY too many spells.
This is not an even match, as you took away the thing that makes the Ninja what they are, an element of surprise.

Wizards are extremely powerful, but are they fast/competent enough to use this power in the midst of combat, I'm not sure.

Yeah. They literally stood around and flung spells at each other. Dodging, deflecting and getting hit if they weren't fast enough. Even the Death Eater's barely used their combustion engine flying techniques.

Originally posted by Placidity
Ninjas clearly win via Ninja Magic (NM).
Ninja Magic is second only to Quan!logic

Originally posted by KingD19
The whole problem though is that the wizards have to actually hit with these spells. They're clearly average human reaction time, and those spells are mostly slow and clearly visible.

Ninja will be teleporting about from shadow to shadow, tossing shuriken at bullet velocities(which could in theory bypass a charm due to the force behind it), and the ninjas are also super strong to a degree. Raizo was strong enough to send a grown man flying, and they cut clean through body parts and entire people with ease. You're missing the point.

The wizards can be flying around in the clouds and spamming spell after spell after spell and fiendfyre. If and when they cast Fiendfyre, the fiendfyre will do their job for them. The ninja can zoom about all they want, but the fiendfyre can and will seek them out. It is an unrelenting wall of flame that can and will surround them, tighten the noose, and fry them. There is no counter for this, not even with magic.

Also, wizard shield spells>>>>>>>>Shuriken tosses.

Originally posted by Stigma
This is not an even match, as you took away the thing that makes the Ninja what they are, an element of surprise.

Wizards are extremely powerful, but are they fast/competent enough to use this power in the midst of combat, I'm not sure.

So in any ninja thread, their opponent must be sitting around, clueless, just waiting to be attacked?


And yeah, the wizards are fast/competent enough to use their powers in the midst of combat.



So in the end, in a straight up fight, Wizards>>>>>Ninja.

Just finished the Harry Potter marathon on ABC. Ninjas stomp hard. More than half of the Hogwarts team (mostly students) will be dead after the first wave of attack. The Ninjas are simply too fast.

Shuriken thrown with deadly accuracy > 15 year old stuttering "S-s-stupefy"

I also don't see the wizards spamming fiendfyre, which iirc is dark magic and is extremely difficult to control. Crabbe may have produced fiendfyre but it killed him because he couldn't control it, and he was like what, a 7th year student? Ninjas win imo.

Also take into account that none of them have ever seen gruesome, gory death like this. They've seen people die sure but most of the deaths look non-violent. Even Avada Kedavra leaves no marks. But people will be getting body parts removed and heads chopped off. Blood will be everywhere...these people who aren't used to that will freak the f*ck out and it will affect their performance.

A twelve year old seeing their best friends head fall from their shoulders will lose their shit.

Good point.

None of them are warriors, and only a handful have seen serious combat. Even some of the experienced teachers would lose their shit.

HP supporters can point out all the spells they want. In reality, it would be too chaotic and Ninjas would take them out systematically.

Only chance is if the HP elite use the time (while the canon fodder are being slaughtered) to prep something.

100 Ninja X 100 Shuriken = 10,000 Flying Deadly Shuriken (FDS)

10,000 FDS = All dead wizards /simplemaths

ps "unbiased version" that specifically takes out one of the ninja's greatest weapons, stealth and surprise. I LoLz.

Ninjas in Ninja Assassin were awesome when no one knew they were coming.

Think about the last scenes in the movie where they essentially got mowed down by guys with guns and lights. This leads me to believe that when they don't have the element of surprise they are nearly as good.

I would say Hogwarts takes this pretty easily.

Originally posted by Newjak
Ninjas in Ninja Assassin were awesome when no one knew they were coming.

Think about the last scenes in the movie where they essentially got mowed down by guys with guns and lights. This leads me to believe that when they don't have the element of surprise they are nearly as good.

I would say Hogwarts takes this pretty easily. This.

Plus, almost every student knows how to use a basic shield charm, which I highly doubt muggles could break through. Its a basic spell to the point where all the students learn how to cast this spell non-verbally their sixth year. If the wizards know they're coming, the ninjas cant do anything.

Originally posted by Newjak
Ninjas in Ninja Assassin were awesome when no one knew they were coming.

Think about the last scenes in the movie where they essentially got mowed down by guys with guns and lights. This leads me to believe that when they don't have the element of surprise they are nearly as good.

I would say Hogwarts takes this pretty easily.


Guns and lights are far different from spells(easily avoidable and highly visible), frightened kids, and mostly darkness.

You mean the frightened kids that are going to be locked in magic sealed dormitories while the incredibly strong wizard teachers unleash hell on the ill equipped ninjas with magic they have no defense against.

Originally posted by Newjak
You mean the frightened kids that are going to be locked in magic sealed dormitories while the incredibly strong wizard teachers unleash hell on the ill equipped ninjas with magic they have no defense against. There is that too. Proper response for Hogwarts is to get the lower year kids either hidden or completely evacuated through secret exits. That leaves the skilled upperclassmen and teachers.

This is the battle of Hogwarts. The same fight where Voldemort dropped the shield. Everybody who was in that, is in this.

And the ninjas are invisible as well as able to hop in and out of shadows. On top of that they're way faster than the wizards can react to and can just spam machine-gun shuriken.

Originally posted by KingD19
This is the battle of Hogwarts. The same fight where Voldemort dropped the shield. Everybody who was in that, is in this.

And the ninjas are invisible as well as able to hop in and out of shadows. On top of that they're way faster than the wizards can react to and can just spam machine-gun shuriken. Remind who all was there in that battle?

Also the wizards know the ninjas are coming. The place will probably be far from dark. And the Wizards have means to completely nullfiy Ninjas before they can attack. Such as throw up a shield or use magic to scry on them.

Originally posted by KingD19
This is the battle of Hogwarts. The same fight where Voldemort dropped the shield. Everybody who was in that, is in this.

And the ninjas are invisible as well as able to hop in and out of shadows. On top of that they're way faster than the wizards can react to and can just spam machine-gun shuriken. Yes, and the lower year students were evacuated prior to the battle ever starting. Voldemort gave them plenty of time to turn over Harry Potter before he attacked. The setting only helps because of the presence of adult wizards/witches that wouldn't have even been there if not for Voldemort.

It doesn't matter how many shuriken they spam, the residents of Hogwarts know the shield charm. Seeing as to how the ninjas shuriken don't have any feats of penetrating otherworldly magic, I don't see this helping. And the ninjas were more than slow enough to react to. The main reason they were hard to react to at points in the movie was because they attacked from the shadows. That wont help here thanks to an abundance of detection and illumination spells, not to mention that the majority of the battle took place on the fully lit campus grounds. The school defended against hundreds of grown and powerful death eaters. I don't see 100 muggles taking it, as skilled as these muggles are.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
There is that too. Proper response for Hogwarts is to get the lower year kids either hidden or completely evacuated through secret exits. That leaves the skilled upperclassmen and teachers.

Who are these skilled upper classmen? Neville? When Harry started the DA, there were students older than Harry who joined and all had to start at the most basic level of defensive spellcasting. Why, because Hogwarts doesn't train the students to fight. The students of Hogwarts are ordinary teenagers, not raised or trained as assassins since birth.

Looking at the duel between Snape and Mcgonagall or Ginny/Molly versus Bellatrix, it doesn't really take superhuman reflexes to react to the spells. To the ninjas, those spells are slooooow.

As per the op, the ninja assassins also know what the wizards are capable of. They're not bloodlusted barbarians who charge at the first incantation of "lumos maxima". Ninjas have much more finesse than that yet brutal at the same time. They'll utilize hit and run tactics and shadow blending. Besides, if a ninja and wizard were in the same room, the ninja can throw 3 shurikens while dodging at the same time than random Hufflepuff girl #38 can properly point and aim her wand and fire off a jinx or spell imo.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
So in any ninja thread, their opponent must be sitting around, clueless, just waiting to be attacked?
You missed the point.
Stealth is what characterized ninja fighting style. With the stips like these, it's like Professor X without his TP or Wizards unable to cast spells.

Originally posted by Robtard
100 Ninja X 100 Shuriken = 10,000 Flying Deadly Shuriken (FDS)

10,000 FDS = All dead wizards /simplemaths

ps "unbiased version" that specifically takes out one of the ninja's greatest weapons, stealth and surprise. I LoLz. As opposed to giving the ninja abilities they do not possess, and having the wizards totally unaware of the pending attack? Hell, anyone can be beaten that way.

What abilities do they not possess?

Originally posted by KingD19
What abilities do they not possess? The ability to see through the shield charm that makes Hogwarts invisible to non-wizards.

Originally posted by Stigma
You missed the point.
Stealth is what characterized ninja fighting style. With the stips like these, it's like Professor X without his TP or Wizards unable to cast spells. You have any idea how huge Hogwarts is? So what if the wizards are aware of the pending attack? The Ninja can't sneak into a big ass castle full of wizards that are prepared for battle?

Seems like the ninja are useless UNLESS their enemy do not know they are coming.


And BTW, the entire Order of the phoenix is in this fight. All of them.

Well, I guess that's that then.