Harrower-class starships

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S_W_LeGenD

Selenial
I lol'd that you considered the superweapons built onto harrowers as proof that Harrowers are good.

By your logic, every single space station that's ever lived is a feat of marvelous engineering "'Cause death star"

FreshestSlice
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100813212921/starwars/images/b/b8/Sithbattlecruiser.jpg

Solo those fleets.

Q99
The thing about them is they were so good compared to the next best at the time (Hammerhead cruisers) that everyone used these same principles on a wide variety of ships ever since, coming up with many designs that are effectively Harrowers but even bigger and stronger, or counterparts that are equal to these bigger stronger successors.


A Harrower is like an F-4 fighter or a Colt 1911 handgun. Set the stage for so much to follow, but ultimately, if you do something right, everyone will do the same stuff right in response.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Selenial
I lol'd that you considered the superweapons built onto harrowers as proof that Harrowers are good.
These dreadnoughts were designed with the possibility of heavy customization in mind and could produce sufficient energy output that would make it possible for them to be equipped with superweapons. Yes, Harrowers are just that good.

Originally posted by Selenial
By your logic, every single space station that's ever lived is a feat of marvelous engineering "'Cause death star"
But Death Star is a marvel of engineering.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100813212921/starwars/images/b/b8/Sithbattlecruiser.jpg

Solo those fleets.
And your point is?

Losses occur during battles. Even the greatest of starships have been destroyed in battles.

The Merchant
Harrowers aren't that great. They're smaller than most Galactic Empire naval ships, and everything said about them is what ISD's also do. Also the Desolator is a superweapon mounted on a Harrower, that's like saying the Imperial Star destroyer can destroy planets because you can mount the Superlasers on them.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Q99
The thing about them is they were so good compared to the next best at the time (Hammerhead cruisers) that everyone used these same principles on a wide variety of ships ever since, coming up with many designs that are effectively Harrowers but even bigger and stronger, or counterparts that are equal to these bigger stronger successors.


A Harrower is like an F-4 fighter or a Colt 1911 handgun. Set the stage for so much to follow, but ultimately, if you do something right, everyone will do the same stuff right in response.
Harrower-class represent OT era technology in TOR era, these starships far more advanced in their time. Since then, all I have noted is increase in sizes and nothing much else. In the context of firepower and defensive arrangements, Harrower have never been surpassed.

Next best starships were Valor-class (Republic) cruisers and Terminus-class destroyer.

Get your facts straight, Q99.

The Merchant
No they don't. OT era ships actually have stated power outputs which rival Stars and have weaponry that can destroy the crusts of planets, STANDARD turbolasers at that.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
Harrowers aren't that great. They're smaller than most Galactic Empire naval ships, and everything said about them is what ISD's also do. Also the Desolator is a superweapon mounted on a Harrower, that's like saying the Imperial Star destroyer can destroy planets because you can mount the Superlasers on them.
Being smaller is not an argument. Technology, design and firepower matters.

Harrower-class dreadnoughts represent of epitome of modern engineering in terms of technology, design and firepower. Since then, all I have noticed is bigger ships and more equipment onboard accordingly. Its like one Bus is bigger then other.

Emperordmb
LeGenD, why do you always tell people who disagree with you that they "need to understand" or "get their facts straight" or that they're "horribly misinformed" or that they need to "think"? You also treat your inferences as absolutes that cannot be disputed. If I didn't know any better I'd assume you have something of an ego or a superiority complex or something.

The Merchant
The "Bigger is not better" is not a good argument because even in real life that's not the case. Usually, when you have the same levels of technology, bigger is better. And besides quotes that Imperial Star destroyers have, like being called the most "powerful warships in history" they have no statements that say they have great firepower. An Acclamator Star Destroyer, which is the weakest Star Destroyer mind you, has a firepower of 200 Gigatons every shot. That's capable of destroying entire Islands, and it has 12 turbolasers, meaning firing all at once can destroy entire countries. A fleet of them can destroy the entire crust of a planet, which is something an Imperial Star Destroyer can do in an hour. Tell me when anything in the Vitiate Empire has done that. In fact I recall them having a superlaser-like weapon and all it did was blast apart a city.

Emperordmb
Eclipse Class Star Destroyer... Nuff Said.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
No they don't. OT era ships actually have stated power outputs which rival Stars and have weaponry that can destroy the crusts of planets, STANDARD turbolasers at that.
Harrower-class dreadnoughts also have tremendous power output.

As far as the crust related point is concerned, you are wrong. Point is not about bombarding an entire planet (Do you recall Taris?), point is that one-shotting an entire planet have always required superweapons, nothing less can achieve this. Desolator's firepower destroyed an entire planet in a single shot and chunks of that planet broke away from the main surface and floated in space. This is precursor to Death Star's capabilities.

In addition, OT era counterpart of Doombringer model is Conqueror.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Eclipse Class Star Destroyer... Nuff Said.
Doombringer model will one-shot it. Nuff said.

The Merchant
There has never been a stated power output for a Harrower-Class, while the Power outout for an Imperial Star Destroyer is 9.28e+24 Watts. Convert that into Joules and it's basically using 3 Petatons every second. A Petaton can destroy entire Continents. And Star Destroyers can actually convert most of that into firepower. And that's not taking into account that they can store up said energies (Most huge facilitates take into account Watt-Hours rather than just every second.) Meaning that in an hour of building up energy, a Star Destroyer is producing 8 Exatons of firepower, at least half of it can go to the weapons. Once you hit that range you're destroying small Moons/Planetoids. Again, you're pretty much using a superweapon that was just mounted on a Harrower that uses a chain reaction to destroy a planet, they cannot be used against other ships. Read the description on how the Desolator actually destroys planets. No other Harrower even has that. And don't compare the conqueror, which uses brute power to destroy planets, against the Desolator, which uses a chain reaction that does not tap into the power output of the Harrower class.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
The "Bigger is not better" is not a good argument because even in real life that's not the case. Usually, when you have the same levels of technology, bigger is better. And besides quotes that Imperial Star destroyers have, like being called the most "powerful warships in history" they have no statements that say they have great firepower. An Acclamator Star Destroyer, which is the weakest Star Destroyer mind you, has a firepower of 200 Gigatons every shot. That's capable of destroying entire Islands, and it has 12 turbolasers, meaning firing all at once can destroy entire countries. A fleet of them can destroy the entire crust of a planet, which is something an Imperial Star Destroyer can do in an hour. Tell me when anything in the Vitiate Empire has done that. In fact I recall them having a superlaser-like weapon and all it did was blast apart a city.
Harrower-class dreadnoughts contain technologies that are witnessed in OT era. During OT era, larger sizes became a possibility. Technological progress in Star Wars is not like in real life.

As far as firepower is concerned, Doombringer and Desolator models have set records in this matter, records that have been broken by Death Star only.

Desolator one-shotted an entire planet with a single blast, in a second. I have posted image above. Are you not paying attention?

Emperordmb
Sun Crusher and Centerpoint station definitely outstrip everything mentioned here in destructive capability. Let's not get crazy and suggest otherwise.

The Merchant
Almost all the technology in every era of SW basically follows the same principals, and they DO believe in the bigger is better ideal. Technological progress in SW is VERY much like real life, if Harrowers were so great they'd still be using them. Instead their designs are made to be BETTER, which we see in the modern eras like the PT and OT. You did not provide any evidence to prove to me that a Harrower class is better than a ISD, and again stop using the Desolator superweapon. That weapon ignites the atmosphere of a planet and causes vibrations to destroy it. It is not like the Death Star in which you simply pump a lot of energy and the planet explodes. It uses an exotic method that requires little to no power, just sets a chain of events which leads to the destruction of a planet. If you were paying attention to me you would know this. The Harrowers power output had nothing to do with the deployment of the Desolator superweapon.

The Merchant
Oh yeah, didn't notice Doombringer and the Taris bombing. The Taris bombing is not comparable to what a single Imperial Star Destroyer can do, which destroys the Crust of the planet. To do that you need around 70 Exatons. To destroy Earth's Moon you need 30 Exatons. That can be done in simply 1 hour. As for Doombringer, can it destroy a Continent? Because just a seconds worth of energy from the Imperial Star Destroyer's shielding can withstand that, an hour long supply would be 4 Exatons worth of energy to take down its shields, which is equivalent to destroying a Planetoid.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
There has never been a stated power output for a Harrower-Class, while the Power outout for an Imperial Star Destroyer is 9.28e+24 Watts. Convert that into Joules and it's basically using 3 Petatons every second. A Petaton can destroy entire Continents. And Star Destroyers can actually convert most of that into firepower. And that's not taking into account that they can store up said energies (Most huge facilitates take into account Watt-Hours rather than just every second.) Meaning that in an hour of building up energy, a Star Destroyer is producing 8 Exatons of firepower, at least half of it can go to the weapons. Once you hit that range you're destroying small Moons/Planetoids. Again, you're pretty much using a superweapon that was just mounted on a Harrower that uses a chain reaction to destroy a planet, they cannot be used against other ships. Read the description on how the Desolator actually destroys planets. No other Harrower even has that. And don't compare the conqueror, which uses brute power to destroy planets, against the Desolator, which uses a chain reaction that does not tap into the power output of the Harrower class.
I am not sure what you are trying to prove here. My point isn't about how much power output a starship have and what that power output can achieve in the context of destruction, if considered separately. This is silly point since that power output is being used to run all systems of a starship and cannot be converted to firepower of same magnitude that it may theoretically do in the manner you are pointing out. The firepower of the starship depends upon the weapons mounted on it.

Desolator is a customized Harrower-class dreadnought with a superweapon on-board. 3 reactors of this starship were designated to power this weapon system alone. Starship still had other reactors on-board to run the rest of the systems.

Conqueror is a model similar to Doombringer, both were equipped with a superweapon with which they could eliminate entire fleets with a single blast.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Conqueror_(superlaser)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Doombringer

If you don't have data on power output of Harrower-class dreadnought then your point about power output of OT era Imperial designs is useless to bring in to this discussion. But keep in mind that it would take 10 years to build a standard model with normal procedures and 1 year to build the same model from a Star Forge like factory drawing power directly from a star.

By the way, Doombringer and Desolator models proved that Harrower-class dreadnoughts are capable of tremendous power output. The superweapons mounted on these models required tremendous power output to function.

The Merchant
See, you weren't paying attention at all. The reason why the power generation is important is BECAUSE they can actually put the majority of that energy into their weapons! They can put half of all that energy into their weapons, meaning a full salvo would be equivalent to say half of the power output. So instead of 4 Exatons it's be 2 Exatons from all the weapons of a Star destroyer firing at the same time. To destroy a Planetoid like Pluto you need only 1 Exaton. The weapons are connected to their reactor, did you really just say that the weapons are separated from the reactor? No, the Conqueror is specifically said to do that AND destroy whole planets, Doombringer only destroys fleets, which have no stated shielding output, no stated durability on the materials they use for their hulls, etc. And what does the Star Forge building prowess have anything to do with their firepower? The Empire had 60% of the 2nd Death Star completed, which is much bigger than the 1st. That's equivalant of building a billion Imperial Star destroyers in literally 6 Months. Yes, 60% of that machine, which is 900 Kilometers in Diameter at 100% while 60% is around 550 Kilometers, was done in 6 Months. The 1st was only 160 Kilometers. This means that the Empire can quite literally built a Star Destroyer in seconds. So if you were trying to prove a point with the SF, they don't compare to the Empire. Doombringer one shots fleets of ships with no known power outputs and the Desolator again uses a chain reaction to destroy a planet, not brute energy.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
Almost all the technology in every era of SW basically follows the same principals, and they DO believe in the bigger is better ideal. Technological progress in SW is VERY much like real life, if Harrowers were so great they'd still be using them. Instead their designs are made to be BETTER, which we see in the modern eras like the PT and OT. You did not provide any evidence to prove to me that a Harrower class is better than a ISD, and again stop using the Desolator superweapon. That weapon ignites the atmosphere of a planet and causes vibrations to destroy it. It is not like the Death Star in which you simply pump a lot of energy and the planet explodes. It uses an exotic method that requires little to no power, just sets a chain of events which leads to the destruction of a planet. If you were paying attention to me you would know this. The Harrowers power output had nothing to do with the deployment of the Desolator superweapon.
Technological progress occurs in Star Wars but it is not continuous. It occurs in phases.

Harrower-class dreadnought represents first design of modern starship technologies, it was a (major) leap from everything ancient in starship design in every aspect. Manufacturing facilities during OT era permitted production of larger starships like Harrowers, this is the only major difference centuries later.

Desolator weapon fires a single shot to destroy a planet, it doesn't have to be fired repeatedly to achieve this objective. As I pointed out before, this is precursor to capabilities of Death Star project.

Harrower power output have everything to do with deployment of a superweapon system like Desolator. 3 reactors of a Harrower-class dreadnought were linked to Desolator superweapon just to power it. The dreadnought had additional reactors to power all of its other systems, very impressive.

The Merchant
It is continuous, look at Hyperdrives. The sizes of ships means that they have bigger reactors to give more energy across the systems of the ship, that's basic common sense. You don't have to be an engineer to even know that. Again, Desolator uses a chain reaction. The firepower of it is minimal since it isn't inherently destructive. it targets the atmosphere of a planet and causes some weird reaction that makes the planet become an Ion Storm and leads to a bunch of effects like the Shock Drum affect and slowly destroys the planet. The beam itself is incredibly weak, otherwise it would have been used like the Doombringer, against ships. Heck if it was an actual planet buster all those stupid reactions would be completely unnecessary.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
Oh yeah, didn't notice Doombringer and the Taris bombing. The Taris bombing is not comparable to what a single Imperial Star Destroyer can do, which destroys the Crust of the planet. To do that you need around 70 Exatons. To destroy Earth's Moon you need 30 Exatons. That can be done in simply 1 hour. As for Doombringer, can it destroy a Continent? Because just a seconds worth of energy from the Imperial Star Destroyer's shielding can withstand that, an hour long supply would be 4 Exatons worth of energy to take down its shields, which is equivalent to destroying a Planetoid.
Doombringer have nothing to do with Taris bombing event.

Taris bombing was performed by Interdictor-class Republic cruiser named Leviathan, flagship of Darth Malak. Harrower-class dreadnoughts are far more advanced then this starship.

Doombringer have firepower equivalent to that of Conqueror.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
See, you weren't paying attention at all. The reason why the power generation is important is BECAUSE they can actually put the majority of that energy into their weapons! They can put half of all that energy into their weapons, meaning a full salvo would be equivalent to say half of the power output. So instead of 4 Exatons it's be 2 Exatons from all the weapons of a Star destroyer firing at the same time. To destroy a Planetoid like Pluto you need only 1 Exaton. The weapons are connected to their reactor, did you really just say that the weapons are separated from the reactor? No, the Conqueror is specifically said to do that AND destroy whole planets, Doombringer only destroys fleets, which have no stated shielding output, no stated durability on the materials they use for their hulls, etc. And what does the Star Forge building prowess have anything to do with their firepower? The Empire had 60% of the 2nd Death Star completed, which is much bigger than the 1st. That's equivalant of building a billion Imperial Star destroyers in literally 6 Months. Yes, 60% of that machine, which is 900 Kilometers in Diameter at 100% while 60% is around 550 Kilometers, was done in 6 Months. The 1st was only 160 Kilometers. This means that the Empire can quite literally built a Star Destroyer in seconds. So if you were trying to prove a point with the SF, they don't compare to the Empire. Doombringer one shots fleets of ships with no known power outputs and the Desolator again uses a chain reaction to destroy a planet, not brute energy.
I am paying attention, unfortunately you are not and presenting points that cannot be used for comparative purposes and you are confused as well.

Doombringer packed much greater firepower then a standard Harrower model. It could eliminate entire fleets with a single blast, standard models could not match this output. It is obvious that Doombringer would destroy a planet much quicker in comparison to a standard model. And even the standard model is vastly superior to Interdictor-class Republic cruiser that performed Taris bombing.

As I pointed out before, Harrower-class starships reached epitome of technological capabilities in all aspects.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
It is continuous, look at Hyperdrives. The sizes of ships means that they have bigger reactors to give more energy across the systems of the ship, that's basic common sense. You don't have to be an engineer to even know that. Again, Desolator uses a chain reaction. The firepower of it is minimal since it isn't inherently destructive. it targets the atmosphere of a planet and causes some weird reaction that makes the planet become an Ion Storm and leads to a bunch of effects like the Shock Drum affect and slowly destroys the planet. The beam itself is incredibly weak, otherwise it would have been used like the Doombringer, against ships. Heck if it was an actual planet buster all those stupid reactions would be completely unnecessary.
It is phases based. And some ancient technologies have never been matched or exceeded in future.

In-fact, reconstituted ancient Sith Empire built a prototype starship which was so fast that it could eliminate targets in hyperspace travels. Do the math.

Yes, larger sizes theoretically imply use of bigger or greater number of reactors. However, Harrower-class starships have been mounted with superweapons that required unprecedented energy output to function. Therefore, design and efficiency matters more then sheer size.

Look at older Intel Pentium processors and compare them with latest Core i7 processors. You won't notice much increase in size, you will notice massive leap in internal design and efficiency.

The beam itself is incredibly weak? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Desolator was outcome of combination of multiple superweapon technologies, genius. Desolator is an actual planet buster. Did you even play the game?

FreshestSlice
The Desolator is a superweapon, not the ship itself. This distinction is even said constantly to the HoT. Did you play the game? Even in the game they do no treat the superweapons on the ships as the ships themselves. The Harrower is and always will be an effective ship for it's time, but it is in no way a ship capable of stopping fleets, especially not the standard Harrower, and finally the Leviathan not only wasn't a standard Interdictor model, it was made by the Star Forge, but it took much longer than you're implying to bomb even one section of Taris, which by the way seems to be the only section of Taris with actual city on it, looking from in game. I've never seen anything to suggest the entire planet was covered with a metropolis as with some others.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Desolator is a superweapon, not the ship itself. This distinction is even said constantly to the HoT. Did you play the game? Even in the game they do no treat the superweapons on the ships as the ships themselves. The Harrower is and always will be an effective ship for it's time, but it is in no way a ship capable of stopping fleets, especially not the standard Harrower, and finally the Leviathan not only wasn't a standard Interdictor model, it was made by the Star Forge, but it took much longer than you're implying to bomb even one section of Taris, which by the way seems to be the only section of Taris with actual city on it, looking from in game. I've never seen anything to suggest the entire planet was covered with a metropolis as with some others.
Starships are equipped with weapons ranging from Turbolasers to superweapons. Of-course, design factor and power output of a starship come in to play since some weapons cannot be mounted on every kind of starship and work on them. Harrower-class starships were designed to be equipped with and power a huge variety of weapons and no other starship class matched it in any aspect in its era. These kind of developments have happened during PT/OT eras as well, a few starships had been converted to superweapons such as Malevolence and Conqueror.

Starships equipped with superweapons are still starships nonetheless and they still have lot of equipment onboard besides a single superweapon. I am not sure what you are trying to convey. You may regard them as super-starships or something.

As far as potential of Harrower-class starship is concerned, it was larger and outgunned any other starship in its time so it wouldn't be surprising that it was capable of holding its own against a fleet of Republic as noted officially: The Harrower is capable of holding its own against starfighter fleets or multiple smaller warships but is best used as the backbone of an Imperial fleet--coordinating attacks, absorbing damage and launching devastating volleys where needed.

Leviathan is an Interdictor-class Republic cruiser, it was not manufactured by Star Forge, it was manufactured by Republic. You can read about it here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

Taris was just like Coruscant.

Located at the intsersection of no fewer then three heavily trafficked hyperspace trading routes, Taris grew quickly. In the span of only a century the world grew into a massive, planet-wide city. Billions of people flowed through the streets. Skyscappers reached into the heavens. But such glory was not to last. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

It is possible that Taris was bombarded by a fleet instead of just Leviathan but some sources imply Leviathan only. However, Harrower-class starships are far more powerful and advanced in comparison.

I also tend to think that starship weapons have been devastating long before OT era. This explains the performance of even Hammer-head class Republic cruisers.

Emperordmb
Speaking of old technologies not being surpassed (not that I agree with LeGenD in this instance), it's interesting that the greatest super weapon ever built, was chronologically the first known super weapon to be built.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Speaking of old technologies not being surpassed (not that I agree with LeGenD in this instance), it's interesting that the greatest super weapon ever built, was chronologically the first known super weapon to be built.
You are contradicting yourself actually.

Emperordmb
How am I contradicting myself? I see no contradiction in my statement.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Starships are equipped with weapons ranging from Turbolasers to superweapons. Of-course, design factor and power output of a starship come in to play since some weapons cannot be mounted on every kind of starship and work on them. Harrower-class starships were designed to be equipped with and power a huge variety of weapons and no other starship class matched it in any aspect in its era. These kind of developments have happened during PT/OT eras as well, a few ships had been converted to superweapons such as Malevolence and Conqueror.

This does not show that ever Harrower class ship somehow has the capability to hold off fleets on its own. And while power output shows the limit of the weapon able to be put on it, this does not mean said weapons are on the standard model, which should be the only one we discuss.

No I regard it as a portable superweapon. This is like me saying Starships have Force potential because Jedi and Sith are on board them and use the life support systems.

No single standard Harrower has ever held off an entire fleet on it's own. The ones equipped with superweapons yes, but the standard variety is till just a starship and can be taken down by a fleet.

And it was also modified by the Star Forge.

The planet seen in game has one section of planet being bombed and one section of city visible. To assume that the entire city was as large as the one section shown is crazy. Though the entire planet is covered with city, as you've shown, you still have no idea how long it took to destroy Taris. This time was certainly not an hour.

Based on your opinion. As I said, the Leviathan was a modified starship by everyone's word but your own. It was actually one of the first ships Revan sent through the Star Forge, so yeah.

And that's cool. Starships still had limitations. The TOR ships are still behind the OT era starships.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
This does not show that ever Harrower class ship somehow has the capability to hold off fleets on its own. And while power output shows the limit of the weapon able to be put on it, this does not mean said weapons are on the standard model, which should be the only one we discuss.
My assertion is based on this statement (The Harrower is capable of holding its own against starfighter fleets or multiple smaller warships) and it is about Republic fleets of TOR era.

Multiple warships and starfighter fleets represent a fleet collectively.

Why discuss standard models only? Harrower-class starships had multiple models and all should be considered for discussion.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No I regard it as a portable superweapon. This is like me saying Starships have Force potential because Jedi and Sith are on board them and use the life support systems.
You may regard them as portable superweapon but they are starships with superior firepower then norm.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No single standard Harrower has ever held off an entire fleet on it's own. The ones equipped with superweapons yes, but the standard variety is till just a starship and can be taken down by a fleet.
I don't think you are in the position to assert that a standard Harrower-class starship have not held off a Republic fleet of its era by itself. See above.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And it was also modified by the Star Forge.
Evidence?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The planet seen in game has one section of planet being bombed and one section of city visible. To assume that the entire city was as large as the one section shown is crazy. Though the entire planet is covered with city, as you've shown, you still have no idea how long it took to destroy Taris. This time was certainly not an hour.
I never claimed that Leviathan destroyed Taris in a span of hour. I don't even know how long this process took but if this starship pulled this magnitude of devastation by itself, Harrower-class starship is considerably better in comparison.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Based on your opinion. As I said, the Leviathan was a modified starship by everyone's word but your own. It was actually one of the first ships Revan sent through the Star Forge, so yeah.
Leviathan was defending Star Forge, nothing else.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And that's cool. Starships still had limitations. The TOR ships are still behind the OT era starships.
You are entitled to your opinion but I don't see much technological leap.

Also, provide me an example of starship which surpassed firepower of Oppressor.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
How am I contradicting myself? I see no contradiction in my statement.
What was my point again?

Emperordmb
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What was my point again?
Shouldn't you know your own point?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Shouldn't you know your own point?
I know my point but you:

1. Claim that you don't agree with it
2. Yet claim that the deadliest superweapon was an ancient superweapon

Notice the contradiction?

Emperordmb
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I know my point but you:

1. Claim that you don't agree with it
2. Yet claim that the deadliest superweapon was an ancient superweapon

Notice the contradiction?
I claimed the second. As for the first, that's not what I meant. I simply disagree with your viewpoint that Harrower Class Starships fall under that category.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I claimed the second. As for the first, that's not what I meant. I simply disagree with your viewpoint that Harrower Class Starships fall under that category.
Conqueror is a Harrower-class starship and it one-shot a planet, it could destroy any manufactured stuff. Nothing beats this magnitude of firepower among starships (considering all modifications and configurations). You point is moot.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Conqueror is a Harrower-class starship and it one-shot a planet, it could destroy any manufactured stuff. Nothing beats this magnitude of firepower among starships (considering all modifications and configurations). You point is moot.
If you'll take a look at my original post, that wasn't even the point. I was merely pointing out something interesting about super weapons.

And the empire easily surpassed that level of firepower with the Sun Crusher.

The_Tempest
facepalm

Jesus H. Christ, this is quite possibly the most embarrassing and foolish thread you've ever created.

The Harrower-class is clearly intended to be evocative of the Imperial Star Destroyer for mass audiences. But though there are similarities in design and motif, both ships are not identical. Differences in dimensions and power output have already been discussed.

You're intentionally conflating similarity with total congruency for the purpose of wanking SWTOR and it's about as shameless as it gets. This is also why no one (not even your fellow SWTOR confederates) takes you seriously. It's also why I don't take any of them seriously.

An Imperial Star Destroyer > Harrower. Time to accept it and move on.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
facepalm

Jesus H. Christ, this is quite possibly the most embarrassing and foolish thread you've ever created.

The Harrower-class is clearly intended to be evocative of the Imperial Star Destroyer for mass audiences. But though there are similarities in design and motif, both ships are not identical. Differences in dimensions and power output have already been discussed.

You're intentionally conflating similarity with total congruency for the purpose of wanking SWTOR and it's about as shameless as it gets. This is also why no one (not even your fellow SWTOR confederates) takes you seriously. It's also why I don't take any of them seriously.

An Imperial Star Destroyer > Harrower. Time to accept it and move on.
I did not claim that Imperial Star Destroyer is a Harrower-class starship. It is based on design concepts of the latter, this much is apparent from assertion of Darth Sidious.

Differences in dimensions are valid but we have no idea about power output of Harrower-class starships at the moment. What is known that they were capable of powering extremely demanding superweapons, they would have tremendous power output due to this factor.

I created this thread to convey all known information to the readers about Harrier-class starships, nothing wrong with it.

Imperial Star Destroyer > Harrower in standard package in some ways but not modified models.

Seriously, take these matters easy. We are discussing Sci-Fi, logic is not a strong forte of Star Wars at-least.

Selenial
More lies from legend.

You need to actually play games that you talk about, or you wouldn't humiliate yourself so publicly.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Selenial
More lies from legend.

You need to actually play games that you talk about, or you wouldn't humiliate yourself so publicly.
Your accusations are getting a bit too much, Selenial. I suggest you tone down your accusations.

I have played SWTOR Jedi Knight story.

Desolator superweapon was mounted on a Harrower-class starship under command of Darth Angral to increase the starship's firepower to unprecedented scale. 3 reactors of this starship were linked to Desolator superweapon to run it. The starship had additional reactors to power its others functions.

Selenial
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your accusations are getting a bit too much, Selenial. I suggest you tone down your accusations.

I have played SWTOR Jedi Knight story.

Desolator superweapon was mounted on a Harrower-class starship under command of Darth Angral to increase the starship's firepower to unprecedented scale. 3 reactors of this starship were linked to Desolator superweapon to run it. The starship had additional reactors to power its others functions.

Yeh I quoted the wrong part :/

I'm talking about when you say it "Destroys a planet with one shot"

It doesn't.

It firstly creates an imbalance of elements in the atmosphere, then it ignites said atmosphere. After that it uses the shock drum to expand the hole created in the mantle until the planet falls apart.

That's not one shot, and it takes quite a long time.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Selenial
Yeh I quoted the wrong part :/

I'm talking about when you say it "Destroys a planet with one shot"

It doesn't.

It firstly creates an imbalance of elements in the atmosphere, then it ignites said atmosphere. After that it uses the shock drum to expand the hole created in the mantle until the planet falls apart.

That's not one shot, and it takes quite a long time.
Selenial, you are confusing Desolator's potency with those of technologies that collectively made its construction possible.

Desolator is needed to be fired only once to devastate the planet.

The devious Sith scientist used his extraordinary knowledge and the Republic's vast resources to develop a series of powerful weapons that could turn the tide of any future war. What the Republic did not realize is that these weapons could be combined into a far more deadly device.

Selenial
It fires one bolt, it doesn't one shot a planet.

Those are two different things.

You're getting confused with the English language here,
It's understandable.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Selenial
It fires one bolt, it doesn't one shot a planet.

Those are two different things.

You're getting confused with the English language here,
It's understandable.
It is one-shotting action. Fire once and forget.

Also, there is no visual depiction of Desolator's devastation process so nobody knows how quickly the weapon destroys the planet. But the weapon itself significantly surpassed the potency of all 3 powerful weapons that collectively made it possible as officially confirmed.

What you are describing is individual potency of each powerful weapon that was used in construction of planet-busting Desolator.

Selenial
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is one-shotting action. Fire once and forget.

Also, there is no visual depiction of Desolator's devastation process so nobody knows how quickly the weapon destroys the planet. But the weapon itself significantly surpassed the potency of all 3 powerful weapons that collectively made it possible as officially confirmed.

What you are describing is individual potency of each powerful weapon that was used in construction of planet-busting Desolator.

Again, that's incorrect.

I'm describing the action of each individual piece, and that's how it works. The death mark was a precise laser strike, one weapon ionized the atmosphere, and one caused Earthquakes. Alone they're powerful, together they destroy a planet.

And we know it takes a long time, because Satele called the Jedi Knight about Tython first, then the Knight had to shut down the ship whilst the Desolator was still being used.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Selenial
Again, that's incorrect.
Desolator takes time to charge up and fire but it one-shots the planet or any target.

Originally posted by Selenial
I'm describing the action of each individual piece, and that's how it works. The death mark was a precise laser strike, one weapon ionized the atmosphere, and one caused Earthquakes. Alone they're powerful, together they destroy a planet.
Shock Drum alone could rip a planet.

Desolator took the devastation potential of these 3 powerful weapons to new heights, therefore; What the Republic did not realize is that these weapons could be combined into a far more deadly device.

Originally posted by Selenial
And we know it takes a long time, because Satele called the Jedi Knight about Tython first, then the Knight had to shut down the ship whilst the Desolator was still being used.
Desolator was never fired on Tython, the purpose of raiding the starship was to prevent firing of the weapon. The starship possessed the capability to ionize the environment of the planet to prevent planetary defenses to take action, using Planet Prison technology, before Desolator could be fired. This granted time to HoT to raid the starship and prevent firing of the weapon.

The Merchant
Devastor is not a one shot planet buster like the Death Star is, and so far I have not seen anything to suggest the Harrower is close to any of the OT ships. Even worse the Harrower still exists and is even produced during modern times but have taken roles similar to the Acclamator. Finally, if you have no proof of their power output or how much damage their turbolasers produce per shot, you can't say that the Harrower is an impressive ship compared to modern standards.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
Devastor is not a one shot planet buster like the Death Star is,
Desolator was a fire and forget weapon much like Death Star, it was a one-shot weapon.

Death Star was more destructive in comparison but Desolator was the precursor to Death Star level firepower.

Originally posted by The Merchant
and so far I have not seen anything to suggest the Harrower is close to any of the OT ships. Even worse the Harrower still exists and is even produced during modern times but have taken roles similar to the Acclamator.
Harrower-class starships may not equal OT era starships in every bit of detail but they had greater customization potential and modified variants were as deadly as any vessel could get throughout history. In-fact, Desolator proved to be deadliest.

Harrower-class starships did not exist in future eras, don't make stuff up.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Finally, if you have no proof of their power output or how much damage their turbolasers produce per shot, you can't say that the Harrower is an impressive ship compared to modern standards.
They are one of the most powerful and deadly starships to have ever been built, this should tell you something. They had sufficient power output to handle extremely demanding superweapons.

Kalen Sykes
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Desolator was a fire and forget weapon much like Death Star, it was a one-shot weapon.

Death Star was more destructive in comparison but Desolator was the precursor to Death Star level firepower.


Harrower-class starships may not equal OT era starships in every bit of detail but they had greater customization potential and modified variants were as deadly as any vessel could get throughout history. In-fact, Desolator proved to be deadliest.

Harrower-class starships did not exist in future eras, don't make stuff up.


They are one of the most powerful and deadly starships to have ever been built, this should tell you something. They had sufficient power output to handle extremely demanding superweapons.


1) I wouldn't call the Death Star a fire-and-forget weapon. The Galaxy Gun seems to fit the description better.

2) I find it highly unlikely that while Harrower-class starships were powerful in their own time, they could be remotely comparable to the ships from the OT. Imperial Star Destroyers were the most powerful ships in the Imperial fleet, until the introduction of the Super Star Destroyer, and I see nothing to indicate Harrower-class ships could come anywhere near their power output. I'm not looking at customizations, but even so, ISDs could be customized into superweapons, as well (the Conqueror).

3) Wasn't the purpose of Palpatine using the Harrower-class as a basis for ISD design more to invoke fear than because of the capabilities of that class?

The Merchant
No it isn't remotely close to the Superlaser. One causes a chain of reactions that causes the planet's own destruction, while the other just throws a bunch of energy and makes it explode. One obviously requires less energy requirements than the other. Desolator can't be compared to a pure energy weapon at all, logically it uses less energy to destroy a planet then the Death Star. The Desolator was deadly but it isn't capable of causing damage to other ships, read the effects. A Ship does not have an atmosphere nor can you induce seismic activity on it. It basically causes a bunch of chain reactions on a planet, causing chain reactions by using something else's materials requires less energy, understand? The Harrower class did exist during the OT era, or at the very least the schematics still existed. Saying that they're upgadable doesn't mean much, because a Star Destroyer can be upgradable to destroy whole planets. The Eclipse can destroy planets as well. Finally, being called one of the most powerful and deadly starships ever is what Imperial Star destroyers have been called too, and you can equip them with superweapons that are far more dealy and consume more power.

S_W_LeGenD

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
1) I wouldn't call the Death Star a fire-and-forget weapon. The Galaxy Gun seems to fit the description better.
Why not? Death Star could one-shot a target with its superlaser.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
2) I find it highly unlikely that while Harrower-class starships were powerful in their own time, they could be remotely comparable to the ships from the OT. Imperial Star Destroyers were the most powerful ships in the Imperial fleet, until the introduction of the Super Star Destroyer, and I see nothing to indicate Harrower-class ships could come anywhere near their power output. I'm not looking at customizations, but even so, ISDs could be customized into superweapons, as well (the Conqueror).
Check the characteristics and history of Harrower-class starships and you will understand that they were comparable. Harrower-class starships represented a breakthrough in starship design in the history of Star Wars, they were considerably more advanced then any starship class in their era and they also inspired starship designs of the future.

The stock variant of Harrower-class starship was very close to capabilities of an ISD. Modified variants of the former matched or surpassed even the mightiest of ISD in firepower aspects.

Customization potential of ISD is not in doubt but they had to undergo significant re-design to be modified with superweapons unlike the Harrowers.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
3) Wasn't the purpose of Palpatine using the Harrower-class as a basis for ISD design more to invoke fear than because of the capabilities of that class?
ISD design concepts are based on design concepts of Harrower-class starship, not exactly a clone copy but similar in many aspects. Palpatine understood the brilliance of Harrower-class starship design. These starships would invoke fear not because of their shape but because of their capabilities.

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