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The Venerable Muun vs. Samuel L

Force, sabers, all out

I'm going with Plagueis on this one. Mace could be argued to be more skilled, but Plagueis is physically superior and stronger in the force.

Plageuis.

I think Windu and Plageuis are relatively equal in the force, so Vapaad won't come into play other than as a style of blade fighting, which leaves the force, and Plageuis has some fantastic feats.

Plagueis is comfortably more powerful in my estimation. The dude atomised a dozen assassins while wounded, his TK/power is insane. Mace can't compete with that.

Y'know, outside of a certain series at least.

I'm personally unsure about the fight though. Windu is likely more skilled in lightsaber combat, but Plagueis has defeated a superior swordsman in a duel before. Would Plagueis' TK come into play? Sidious never managed to properly bring it to bare so maybe not.

Plagueis.

Windu.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Plagueis is comfortably more powerful in my estimation.

Vaapad helped even the odds with Palpatine, I don't see how it wouldn't with Mace in the long run.



His wounds shouldn't have made a significant difference though, on the contrary a Sith can feed on his own pain.



Again, he competed with Palpatine's.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Vaapad helped even the odds with Palpatine, I don't see how it wouldn't with Mace in the long run.

I agree.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
His wounds shouldn't have made a significant difference though, on the contrary a Sith can feed on his own pain.

I still feel that the physical debilitation would mess with his ability to harness the Force more than the pain helps him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Again, he competed with Palpatine's.

Yes, he did. But I'm talking about Maces natural power.

How do people think Shatterpoint would play out in this match? Does Plagueis have any glaring "F*ck me" buttons for Mace to hit?

Well, the additional strength granted by Vaapad's superconducting loop appears to be rather exaggerated lately, to me.

Besides, this fight doesn't bar unnatural power.




Actually, he does...

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, the additional strength granted by Vaapad's superconducting loop appears to be rather exaggerated lately, to me.

Besides, this fight doesn't bar unnatural power.

Definitely true. But my point stands, unaided there's no way Mace can come close to atomising a dozen attacks with a Force Wave.

I know.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, he does...

Then I'd probably go with Mace.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, he does...

TBF, you really don't need shatter point to see his weakness.

I like how no one bothered to list Plagueis's purported 'weakness'.

His mask. If removed or destroyed, it alone could very well kill him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
His mask. If removed or destroyed, it alone could very well kill him.
True. If it wasn't for the mask though, I can see Plagueis winning.

I think the mask is overrated as a weakness.

In a combat situation, I can easily see Plagueis pressing on through his rage if having his mask damaged Vader/Malgus style. And I'm not really sure how easy to exploit or vulnerable this spot is relative to other characters. The face is kinda vulnerable to begin with. I'm not sure how hitting somebody in the face with a lightsaber is supposed to be some special weakness for people with respirator masks.

sabers: Mace

force: Plagueis

All out: Undecided ; D

Plagueis is also faster and stronger

So was Sidious.

Which wont matter because aside from Sidious he's never received an amp from any darksider he's ever fought

So why wouldn't he receive an amp from Plagueis? What made his fight with Sidious unrepeatable?

Because its never worked for him in another fight and he was also drawing on Anakin's fear and mental state, his inner darkness, as well as Palpatine. He had all of these amps as a matter of circumstance, at least according to the ROTS novel. Plagueis is superior to Windu in every other area as well, in terms of force power, physical attributes, feats etc.

I think Plagueis takes this but it would be a really good fight.

Originally posted by carthage
Because its never worked for him in another fight and he was also drawing on Anakin's fear and mental state, his inner darkness, as well as Palpatine. He had all of these amps as a matter of circumstance, at least according to the ROTS novel. Plagueis is superior to Windu in every other area as well, in terms of force power, physical attributes, feats etc.

That's because Windu never went as deep into Vaapad (mentioned in the novel I believe). In Shatterpoint, he was deliberately holding back. He also did not amp himself off Anakin's fear but used it to find Palp's Shatterpoint ( the window). But, considering Anakin wasn't there during that art in the movie, it's contradicted.

Plagueis 7 of 10.