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in scenario 1 its kal kent vs regular Prime.
scenario 2 its GA SBP VS Kal Kent
Kal Kent is at full power and the super sun canot be destroyed or removed in this fight.
what happens?

1st Kal
2nd Prime

Kal kent both.

Again based on feats Prime in both but with some logic applied (FOPL) easy to see how Superman 1 million wins in both especially with a Solaris amp. Depowered Kal punched through time to his time. Kal would struggle more with the GA Amp though. Nevertheless it's safe to say Superman 1 million wins even without the "actual feats" and especially with an amp just based off of the feat previously mentioned.

Kal Kent in both.

Kal kent also held back an entire galaxy rushing in at light speed. that feat alone puts him very high up in the scale.

Personally I put Superman M*'s time punching on par with Superboy Prime's Phantom Zone busting retcon punching despite it taking a lot more time(no pun intended). And Kal Kent was weakened to the point his senses were virtual gone, mental facilities were vastly lower, true super speed was gone, energy powers were gone, and he couldn't even fly.

Going by what it seems like he should be at fully powered, I'd still put him above the amped Superboy(man) Prime. Despite as others have pointed out that he doesn't have much in regards to feats, and I can't think of any significant fights either.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Personally I put Superman M*'s time punching on par with Superboy Prime's Phantom Zone busting retcon punching despite it taking a lot more time(no pun intended). And Kal Kent was weakened to the point his senses were virtual gone, mental facilities were vastly lower, true super speed was gone, energy powers were gone, and he couldn't even fly.

Going by what it seems like he should be at fully powered, I'd still put him above the amped Superboy(man) Prime. Despite as others have pointed out that he doesn't have much in regards to feats, and I can't think of any significant fights either.

yes but dont forget it took him longer because he was punching centeries into the future. with the first punch he broke the time barrier and altered reality. and of course he was extremely depowered. once he got his powers back he re-enforced green lanterns force field around solaris and actually overpowered solaris without too much effort. also green lantern was bleeding and hurt before kal kent arrived to help him so the help kal kent got from him was minimal as he was about to break.

and once again there is kal kent holding with his force vision an entire galaxy that was charging at light speed, thats just insane. i dont see even trans levelers do that.

Originally posted by RealPizzaBoy
yes but dont forget it took him longer because he was punching centeries into the future. with the first punch he broke the time barrier and altered reality. and of course he was extremely depowered. once he got his powers back he re-enforced green lanterns force field around solaris and actually overpowered solaris without too much effort. also green lantern was bleeding and hurt before kal kent arrived to help him so the help kal kent got from him was minimal as he was about to break.

and once again there is kal kent holding with his force vision an entire galaxy that was charging at light speed, thats just insane. i dont see even trans levelers do that.

Yeah, I know it was 823 or so centuries into time. So I don't knock it taking a while(no pun intended against him. And him being weak is exactly why I put him under his full power so far above SBP. I think even that weakened Kal Kent could give Superboy Prime a fight, assuming he didn't rapidly lose power during the fight.

I really found the Solaris thing more a big feat for Kyle than Superman M* considering other factors, not the things you brought up.

I thought it was half a galaxy? Either way it's insane. It would be insane even at half a galaxy going at normal speeds, and IIRC it was a telekinesis feat. You wouldn't happen to know the issue reference? I probably have the comic but don't remember which.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I thought it was half a galaxy? Either way it's insane. It would be insane even at half a galaxy going at normal speeds, and IIRC it was a telekinesis feat. You wouldn't happen to know the issue reference? I probably have the comic but don't remember which. yeah, it took the cumulative force-vision/tk of superman m* AND titano to halt the forward progression of a galaxy:
http://i.imgur.com/nsMQCEy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jIwjX5Q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zTyu578.jpg

and according to titano, the galaxies were moving toward one another at "incredible speeds":
http://i.imgur.com/haMlHc8.jpg


scans are from DC One Million: 80 Page Giant, btw.

Those galaxies were forcing entire hypertime to merge into a single universe. Hypertime is an infinite multiverse FYI.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was moving so fast that it caused ripples across time for centuries. Two galaxies are sometimes millions of lightyears apart in distance, colliding with another galaxy in two hours? So far above lightspeed, its not even funny. The effect of those two galaxies nearly colliding nearly folded entire Hypertime.

http://i.imgur.com/GrzIjQE.jpg

"Every possible universe at once."

Its so far above Hulk's feat that its not even funny. Originally posted by abhilegend
Anyway, Kal punching through time isn't so impressive on its own but when you consider how much he was weakened, its ****ing awesome. As per JLA 1M, he was at least weakened to 1/10000 level of his power as he is at least lightspeed and here he could only jump (not even fly) at 1/10000th speed of light.

http://i.imgur.com/68Us7V2s.jpg http://i.imgur.com/OHCGBLKs.jpg http://i.imgur.com/09oDmPws.jpg

Then he gets weakened even more in DC 1M 3 where even his HV is gone and he's at the last reserves of his power.

http://i.imgur.com/1w3qH8js.jpg

Even more weakened in DC 1M 4 where he punches through time to the point he ages into an old man.

http://i.imgur.com/vcI414Os.jpg

But as soon as he reaches 853rd century, he's back at his full power.

http://i.imgur.com/WwYHhjTs.jpg

So it was Kal Kent at less than 1/10000th of his power who punched straight through time. At full power he would punch straight through Hulk too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Those galaxies were forcing entire hypertime to merge into a single universe. it's hilarious to me that the gorilla galaxy's massive gravity is what momentarily crumpled time and warped "every possible universe"(ie. hypertime/infinity) into a single galaxy like that. the implications are staggering, really--i mean, how astronomical does a galaxy's gravitational field have to be in order to warp all of hypertime, instantly?

...i doubt grant thought that one through, tbh.

Originally posted by Galan007
yeah, it took the cumulative force-vision/tk of superman m* AND titano to halt the forward progression of a galaxy:
http://i.imgur.com/nsMQCEy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jIwjX5Q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zTyu578.jpg

and according to titano, the galaxies were moving toward one another at "incredible speeds":
http://i.imgur.com/haMlHc8.jpg


scans are from DC One Million: 80 Page Giant, btw.

Thanks. First scan states the galaxy is blueshifting. According to Wikipedia, that means it's moving at relativistic speed, which is a decent percentage of lightspeed.

good catch.

Originally posted by Galan007


good catch.

Thanks. Looking at Abhi's post though it probably was going a lot faster. But even an entire galaxy moving at 10% of lightspeed(apparently the rough minimum for "relativistic speed" if I got the article right) would, well, even half the effort of slowing it down is insane.

Originally posted by Galan007
it's hilarious to me that the gorilla galaxy's massive gravity is what momentarily crumpled time and warped "every possible universe"(ie. hypertime/infinity) into a single galaxy like that. the implications are staggering, really--i mean, how astronomical does a galaxy's gravitational field have to be in order to warp all of hypertime, instantly?

...i doubt grant thought that one through, tbh.
Grant didn't write it though IIRC and stupid or not, a feat is a feat. As it is, Kal Kent and Titano stopped a force that was threatening an infinite multiverse to merge into a single universe. You know how much field work someone like Mr. M would do with a feat like that?

Kal Kent for skyfather category.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Grant didn't write it though IIRC and stupid or not, a feat is a feat. As it is, Kal Kent and Titano stopped a force that was threatening an infinite multiverse to merge into a single universe. You know how much field work someone like Mr. M would do with a feat like that?

Kal Kent for skyfather category.

I could be wrong, but I don't think he was trying to dismiss or downgrade the feat or anything. Just point-out how stupidly insane it was.

Oh, and message me back jerkface!!!

Originally posted by abhilegend
Grant didn't write it though IIRC and stupid or not, a feat is a feat. As it is, Kal Kent and Titano stopped a force that was threatening an infinite multiverse to merge into a single universe. You know how much field work someone like Mr. M would do with a feat like that?

Kal Kent for skyfather category. first off, grant did write it:
http://i.imgur.com/pTYz8mc.jpg

secondly, pump the brakes, kiddo. i wasn't downplaying the feat by any means... just pointing out its glaring absurdity/uberness, is all.

Originally posted by Galan007
first off, grant did write it:
http://i.imgur.com/pTYz8mc.jpg

secondly, pump the brakes, kiddo. i wasn't downplaying the feat by any means... just pointing out its glaring absurdity/uberness, is all.
Oh, you were right. Don't make a habit out of it.



So how powerful Kal Kent is IYO?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh, you were right. Don't make a habit out of it.



So how powerful Kal Kent is IYO?

sneer I see no message from you in my inbox. I am going to dedicate so much beef to you before I devour that delicious meat.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So how powerful Kal Kent is IYO? almost impossible to say, as most of his showings occurred while he was extremely weak. however, even while in a weakened(and in some cases, nearly deceased) state, superman m* was still able to do shit like: accurately punch thousands of years into the future, wtfpwn a solid herald(ie. firestorm) with a casual burst of his breath alone, and even proved immune to epoch's time-stop(though he wasn't weakened at the time.)

my only issue with focusing solely on the galaxy feat is when we start getting into logical power-scaling thereafter. meaning: if superman m* was able to stop 50% the mass of the gorilla galaxy, then how powerful was solaris that it took kyle's construct, in conjunction with superman m*'s 'galactic' force-vision, just to contain him...? dunno, i have always viewed him as a peak trans-leveler, personally... though if you take the "more powerful than any metahuman ever" statement literally, an argument can certainly be made for a higher ranking.

...too bad that pesky k-nite weakness was still in play for him--he was almost perfect.

Originally posted by Galan007


...too bad that pesky k-nite weakness was still in play for him.

It was? I didn't read every single DC ONE MILLION tie-in issue, but I read the core storyline and don't recall Kryptonite ever effecting him or being stated to effect him. In fact, he couldn't access Superman's Fortress because his Kryptonian bloodline was so diluted it didn't even recognize him as Kryptonian. Would seem odd to me that he doesn't even have enough Kryptonian DNA to be recognized as one but Kryptonite still effects him.

Did I miss something, or are you mixing this up with Solaris' plan to kill Superman Prime with the Kryptonite that actually turned-out to be Kyle's Power Ring?

Prime, both times.

Originally posted by Delta1938
It was? I didn't read every single DC ONE MILLION tie-in issue, but I read the core storyline and don't recall Kryptonite ever effecting him or being stated to effect him. In fact, he couldn't access Superman's Fortress because his Kryptonian bloodline was so diluted it didn't even recognize him as Kryptonian. Would seem odd to me that he doesn't even have enough Kryptonian DNA to be recognized as one but Kryptonite still effects him.

Did I miss something, or are you mixing this up with Solaris' plan to kill Superman Prime with the Kryptonite that actually turned-out to be Kyle's Power Ring? this is the instance i was referencing:
http://i.imgur.com/qalfmFH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qf3xLpu.jpg
the k-nite weakness was still in play for superman m*--which is logical given that it was still in play for his predecessor/battery, superman prime.

how can i contact grand morrison and ask him if there will be any content with kal kent anywhere soon? i felt like DC 1 MILLION could use some further developement. specially Superman 1 million since we really didnt get a chance to see how he is like when he is full power and fighting enemies.

I'm gonna go with Prime, barely, in round 1, and definitely Prime in round 2. While Kal Kent was able to blow away Firestorm when weakened(though he got right back up again), Prime was taking on groups of Lanterns at a time, which is a little more impressive than Kent's feat.

Originally posted by Galan007
this is the instance i was referencing:
http://i.imgur.com/qalfmFH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qf3xLpu.jpg
the k-nite weakness was still in play for superman m*--which is logical given that it was still in play for his predecessor/battery, superman prime.

From the 80 Page Giant. No wonder I missed it, thanks. I always saw Superman M* being powered by the Super-Sun because Superman Prime gave it, as Superman M* seemed to not get any power from the regular Sun in the modern day.

But it takes apparently a city-sized chunk of Kryptonite to effect Superman M*. Not too shabby.

Originally posted by Delta1938
From the 80 Page Giant. No wonder I missed it, thanks. I always saw Superman M* being powered by the Super-Sun because Superman Prime gave it, as Superman M* seemed to not get any power from the regular Sun in the modern day.

But it takes apparently a city-sized chunk of Kryptonite to effect Superman M*. Not too shabby. not sure i'm following the first part. you're correct in assuming that superman m* is only powered by the super-sun(ie. the post-700th century star of our solar system), but i guess i'm not sure why you brought it up..?

i doubt very highly that a city-sized chunk of k-nite is the minimum that is needed to harm superman m*. after all, before we knew the knight fragment was really just a GL ring in disguise, we had every reason to believe that a handheld slice of k-nite was sufficient to poison the super-sun and outright kill superman prime himself. i doubt very highly that prime's 'heralds'(the superman dynasty) had a greater resistance to k-nite than he did. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
not sure i'm following the first part. you're correct in assuming that superman m* is only powered by the super-sun(ie. the post-700th century star of our solar system), but i guess i'm not sure why you brought it up..?

i doubt very highly that a city-sized chunk of k-nite is the minimum that is needed to harm superman m*. after all, before we knew the knight fragment was really just a GL ring in disguise, we had every reason to believe that a handheld slice of k-nite was sufficient to poison the super-sun and outright kill superman prime himself. i doubt very highly that prime's 'heralds'(the superman dynasty) had a greater resistance to k-nite than he did. /shrug

well yeah golden prime is empowering the dynesty. however kal kent also got powers from the 5 Imp queen bloodline. so IMO it wouldnt be a stretch to believe he is imune to Knite because of that. he doesnt have to be more powerful than golden prime, only being resistant to knite.

also please people help me contact with morrison i need to know about 1 million. also maybe my question will remind him of the character and he will write something with it. i would love to see Doomsday try to go after kal kent and see what happens.

Originally posted by Galan007
not sure i'm following the first part. you're correct in assuming that superman m* is only powered by the super-sun(ie. the post-700th century star of our solar system), but i guess i'm not sure why you brought it up..?

i doubt very highly that a city-sized chunk of k-nite is the minimum that is needed to harm superman m*. after all, before we knew the knight fragment was really just a GL ring in disguise, we had every reason to believe that a handheld slice of k-nite was sufficient to poison the super-sun and outright kill superman prime himself. i doubt very highly that prime's 'heralds'(the superman dynasty) had a greater resistance to k-nite than he did. /shrug

I brought it up because it seemed to me that Superman Prime had more to do with them being powered by the Super Sun than genetics. It wasn't really explained, but Superman M* wasn't recognized as Kryptonian by the Fortress so that's how I took it. It just seems odd he'd react to Kryptonite since he had barely any Kryptonian DNA left in him. Maybe the writer didn't think about it(or didn't know), maybe the writer didn't care.

Originally posted by RealPizzaBoy
well yeah golden prime is empowering the dynesty. however kal kent also got powers from the 5 Imp queen bloodline. so IMO it wouldnt be a stretch to believe he is imune to Knite because of that. he doesnt have to be more powerful than golden prime, only being resistant to knite.

also please people help me contact with morrison i need to know about 1 million. also maybe my question will remind him of the character and he will write something with it. i would love to see Doomsday try to go after kal kent and see what happens. it was stated that the superman dynasty gained 10 new sensory powers when the superman of the 67th century married the imp queen. it was never stated, or even alluded to, however, that the dynasty became more resistant to k-nite because of said annulment.

...and it doesn't exactly help support the opinion that superman m* was extra-resistant to k-nite, when he was dropped like a wet sack of shit the one time he was exposed to it on panel. /shrug

Originally posted by Delta1938
I brought it up because it seemed to me that Superman Prime had more to do with them being powered by the Super Sun than genetics. It wasn't really explained, but Superman M* wasn't recognized as Kryptonian by the Fortress so that's how I took it. It just seems odd he'd react to Kryptonite since he had barely any Kryptonian DNA left in him. Maybe the writer didn't think about it(or didn't know), maybe the writer didn't care. yeah, dunno. evidently different writers had a different take on his kryptonian genealogy... that, or they just didn't give a f*ck.

Originally posted by Galan007


yeah, dunno. evidently different writers had a different take on his kryptonian genealogy... that, or they just didn't give a f*ck.

I figure the writer didn't know about what was already shown or didn't care. 'Cuz essentially Kal Kent wasn't even Kryptonian. We can just chalk it up to.....comics.

yup, that's 90s-era comics for ya.

though it's worth noting that the future superman dynasty did still descend from superman prime's bloodline...

" sought out the current Superman, the millennia-distant blood of his blood, and forged a covenant...":
http://i.imgur.com/ZTO2d2i.jpg

S1MIL

supes 1M was awesome. lol him alone goes a long way to explaining how powerful and utterly ridiculous solaris was given what solaris was doing not only to him but to the entire 1M hero roster.... that, by inference, also gives us some indication of the level of power golden supes may have been harboring.....

Originally posted by Galan007
yup, that's 90s-era comics for ya.

though it's worth noting that the future superman dynasty did still descend from superman prime's bloodline...

" sought out the current Superman, the millennia-distant blood of his blood, and forged a covenant...":
http://i.imgur.com/ZTO2d2i.jpg

Oh, I know they did descend directly from him. But like I said he essentially wasn't Kryptonian. For those who haven't seen it.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/SUPERMAN1000000-PG14.jpg

I figured they were written by different writers, checked and was right. So either Mark Millar wasn't aware of that, or he simply didn't care.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Oh, I know they did descend directly from him. But like I said he essentially wasn't Kryptonian. For those who haven't seen it.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/SUPERMAN1000000-PG14.jpg

I figured they were written by different writers, checked and was right. So either Mark Millar wasn't aware of that, or he simply didn't care.

the thing with 1 million being depowered is always jumping up and down the scales. at normal when depowered he couldnt break the ice cave and couldnt even rip a tunnel bar off the wall. however when needed he beat the crap out of all the metal man and even combined. and while extremely depowered broke the time itself 853 centeries into the future causing shocwaves in the history and altering events.
when i look at superman 1 million i see a modern version of PC Superman and i really think thats what he was suppose to be by morrison. he got so many insane powers for everything and when needed he got extreme powers and abilities.

while depowered,blowing slightly on firestorm and knocking him off. while stating he can destroy a giant red star with his breath alone. while extremely depowered to the point he cant even fly or break into an ice cave, beat the crap out of the time stream and punch into the future. hold off a whole charging galaxy that was traveling around light speed. yes he needed help from titano but when titano came and just put some effort into it the galaxy stopped right away and it was stated. it was stated the galaxy was stopped dead on spot. that means kal kent already slowed it down and held it off enough for it to stop dead on spot once any further power was applied.

Originally posted by RealPizzaBoy
the thing with 1 million being depowered is always jumping up and down the scales. at normal when depowered he couldnt break the ice cave and couldnt even rip a tunnel bar off the wall. however when needed he beat the crap out of all the metal man and even combined. and while extremely depowered broke the time itself 853 centeries into the future causing shocwaves in the history and altering events.
when i look at superman 1 million i see a modern version of PC Superman and i really think thats what he was suppose to be by morrison. he got so many insane powers for everything and when needed he got extreme powers and abilities.

while depowered,blowing slightly on firestorm and knocking him off. while stating he can destroy a giant red star with his breath alone. while extremely depowered to the point he cant even fly or break into an ice cave, beat the crap out of the time stream and punch into the future. hold off a whole charging galaxy that was traveling around light speed. yes he needed help from titano but when titano came and just put some effort into it the galaxy stopped right away and it was stated. it was stated the galaxy was stopped dead on spot. that means kal kent already slowed it down and held it off enough for it to stop dead on spot once any further power was applied.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking "defenses" meant there was more than just breaking an ice cavern.

And, I'm not sure how that's as inconsistent as you're saying even if it's just breaking through a bunch of ice. That would be one poor example against him beating Firestorm like he did, owning the Metal Men(twice, actually, second when they were merged into a more powerful form), jumping to the Moon and punching through time.

Originally posted by Galan007
it was stated that the superman dynasty gained 10 new sensory powers when the superman of the 67th century married the imp queen. it was never stated, or even alluded to, however, that the dynasty became more resistant to k-nite because of said annulment.

...and it doesn't exactly help support the opinion that superman m* was extra-resistant to k-nite, when he was dropped like a wet sack of shit the one time he was exposed to it on panel. /shrug


you got me all wrong. i wasnt saying he doesnt have weakness to K-nite , we saw on panel he has. i just stated that it could make sense if he was imune to K-nite while golden superman prime wasnt even with the fact he empowers kal kent, and that could be explained by the blood mix with the 5 Imp.

Originally posted by RealPizzaBoy
you got me all wrong. i wasnt saying he doesnt have weakness to K-nite , we saw on panel he has. i just stated that it could make sense if he was imune to K-nite while golden superman prime wasnt even with the fact he empowers kal kent, and that could be explained by the blood mix with the 5 Imp.

If you ignore Kal Kent being effected by Kryptonite, I do agree it'd logical that he wouldn't be effected by it while Superman Prime is, but not because of the 5D imp blood, but because he's so far down the generational line that he's not even recognized as Kryptonian.

Yeah, I know that wasn't to me, just felt like chiming in.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I could be wrong, but I'm thinking "defenses" meant there was more than just breaking an ice cavern.

And, I'm not sure how that's as inconsistent as you're saying even if it's just breaking through a bunch of ice. That would be one poor example against him beating Firestorm like he did, owning the Metal Men(twice, actually, second when they were merged into a more powerful form), jumping to the Moon and punching through time.

yes exactly. he owned a solid herald with a slight breath. he bea tthe entire metal man crew. on the other hand couldnt break the ice cave , couldnt rip off the vent tunnel off the wall, and felt pain when robots shot him. however to his defence i will say owning firestorm happened when he just began losing his powers. then he came down to earth and beat the metal man while further losing his powers. all the low showings i stated happened when he was further and extremely depowered. however suddenly he could break the whole time barrier and punch into the future when ever greatly depowered. doesnt make that much sense but oh well... its just like PC Superman i guess.

Originally posted by RealPizzaBoy
yes exactly. he owned a solid herald with a slight breath. he bea tthe entire metal man crew. on the other hand couldnt break the ice cave , couldnt rip off the vent tunnel off the wall, and felt pain when robots shot him. however to his defence i will say owning firestorm happened when he just began losing his powers. then he came down to earth and beat the metal man while further losing his powers. all the low showings i stated happened when he was further and extremely depowered. however suddenly he could break the whole time barrier and punch into the future when ever greatly depowered. doesnt make that much sense but oh well... its just like PC Superman i guess.

IIRC he could still fly when he owned Firestorm. I don't recall how much the Metal Men actually effected him, but I remember they sneak attacked him after he lost the ability to fly. Not sure if you mean the Metal Men or something else by "felt pain when robots shot him." Considering he specifically cited the Fortress defenses, I think it was a lot more than you're making it out to be. When he punched his way through the time barrier, he was using-up what was left of the solar energy from the Super Sun in his cells. In fact you can see he was greatly aged, beforehand the Justice Legion didn't think he could do it, and it was mentioned he was killing himself.

Superman 1 million curbstomps

Originally posted by Delta1938
IIRC he could still fly when he owned Firestorm. I don't recall how much the Metal Men actually effected him, but I remember they sneak attacked him after he lost the ability to fly. Not sure if you mean the Metal Men or something else by "felt pain when robots shot him." Considering he specifically cited the Fortress defenses, I think it was a lot more than you're making it out to be. When he punched his way through the time barrier, he was using-up what was left of the solar energy from the Super Sun in his cells. In fact you can see he was greatly aged, beforehand the Justice Legion didn't think he could do it, and it was mentioned he was killing himself.

thats why i said he was at the begining of his power losing process when owning firestorm. he was still depowered tho.

the metal man were able to effect him slightly he didnt want to fight. but when he said screw it he owned them combined while they were all holding him. and then when they composed themselves into a huge being he raped them.

the robots i mean the robots at the ice fortress. he beat the living hell out of them physically yeah but he felt pain and he stated it.

the ice fortress wasnt a big deal because afterwards in the next panel those mercenaries blust the entire ice cave without much trouble with only their guns so it wasnt anything unique.

basically he was using his last powers and everything he got when punching the time barrier. he doesnt have reserves or something like that. it was simply a fency way to state he is using all powers left in him. and yes it caused him to age but come on. cant break some ice cave entrence that guards blust with easy? but then bruise the time and punch into the future while altering events and sending shocwaves thru the time?

also nice feat from kal

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-1291454

Originally posted by RealPizzaBoy
thats why i said he was at the begining of his power losing process when owning firestorm. he was still depowered tho.

the metal man were able to effect him slightly he didnt want to fight. but when he said screw it he owned them combined while they were all holding him. and then when they composed themselves into a huge being he raped them.

the robots i mean the robots at the ice fortress. he beat the living hell out of them physically yeah but he felt pain and he stated it.

the ice fortress wasnt a big deal because afterwards in the next panel those mercenaries blust the entire ice cave without much trouble with only their guns so it wasnt anything unique.

basically he was using his last powers and everything he got when punching the time barrier. he doesnt have reserves or something like that. it was simply a fency way to state he is using all powers left in him. and yes it caused him to age but come on. cant break some ice cave entrence that guards blust with easy? but then bruise the time and punch into the future while altering events and sending shocwaves thru the time?

I was confirming it was when he could still fly. Also, I disagree on the term "depowered." That seems like you're actually powerless. I prefer the term "weakened," just sayin'.

Yep, he owned them twice after saying he didn't want to hurt them, but he didn't have time.

It's been a while since I read it, but if they were made from Kryptonian tech/designs, Kryptonian technology has shown to be quite powerful on multiple occasions, capable of giving Superman a fight. So that's not necessarily a bad showing considering how weakened he was.

Again, been a while since I read it, but like I pointed-out, that would really only be one bad showing, since the robots very well were more powerful than you think. For all we know he was trying to conserve power.

How does he not have reserves if he was gradually losing his powers? That's the very definition of "reserves." The way you're wording it, he should've been immediately powerless when coming to the 20th century. But he wasn't.

And what? So him gradually turning old from the strain isn't evidence of him using-up his reserves? So basically you're arguing he's inconsistent because you keep bringing-up the one likely legitimate example you've got of him looking bad. While still with most of his power, he owned Firestorm with a casual blow in his direction. While severely weakened, he owned the Metal Men twice(once when they were more powerful than normal), jumped to the Moon, and punched his way through time. You argue because he didn't break through ice, and he was hurt by robots, which very well could be more powerful than you think, as him being "so inconsistent?"

Originally posted by Delta1938
I was confirming it was when he could still fly. Also, I disagree on the term "depowered." That seems like you're actually powerless. I prefer the term "weakened," just sayin'.

Yep, he owned them twice after saying he didn't want to hurt them, but he didn't have time.

It's been a while since I read it, but if they were made from Kryptonian tech/designs, Kryptonian technology has shown to be quite powerful on multiple occasions, capable of giving Superman a fight. So that's not necessarily a bad showing considering how weakened he was.

Again, been a while since I read it, but like I pointed-out, that would really only be one bad showing, since the robots very well were more powerful than you think. For all we know he was trying to conserve power.

How does he not have reserves if he was gradually losing his powers? That's the very definition of "reserves." The way you're wording it, he should've been immediately powerless when coming to the 20th century. But he wasn't.

And what? So him gradually turning old from the strain isn't evidence of him using-up his reserves? So basically you're arguing he's inconsistent because you keep bringing-up the one likely legitimate example you've got of him looking bad. While still with most of his power, he owned Firestorm with a casual blow in his direction. While severely weakened, he owned the Metal Men twice(once when they were more powerful than normal), jumped to the Moon, and punched his way through time. You argue because he didn't break through ice, and he was hurt by robots, which very well could be more powerful than you think, as him being "so inconsistent?"

well its still can be called depowered which means within a loss of power.

yes but once again i am stating that Luthor's man blasted it with their guns and easily, therefor i think it would be false to asume it was reinforced with something hardcore. by the way it looked it wasnt more durable than just a block of ice. because the average guns blasted it to pieces.

it doesnt have anything to do with conserving power. the robots shot him and he felt pain from laser shots, which means his durability was that low. it has nothing to do with saving energy. if you feel the pain than you feel the pain you dont choose to feel pain just to save energy it doesnt even make sense.

well can you provide a scan showing he reserved on stacked up some portion of solar energy in his cells or his boom suit? the only way i see this statement is a fency depiction of the fact he was using all the powers he has left with. however claiming he had some secret solar reserve that he activated and suddenly empowered him to some degree would be unbacked theory.

him getting old is just showing his durability was very low at that point and he was aging with the time flying by. it has nothing to do with energy reservings.

yes and i preety sure anyone will agree with me on that one. being hurt by casual laser shots from robots, unable to break an ice cave, unable to tear off the wall the vent bars. but then beat the hell out of time itself and punch into the future while altering events is inconsistant. if you think he had some hidden reserves of solar energy which he activated please provide the evidence to that. until then he was just inconsistant

Originally posted by RealPizzaBoy
well its still can be called depowered which means within a loss of power.

yes but once again i am stating that Luthor's man blasted it with their guns and easily, therefor i think it would be false to asume it was reinforced with something hardcore. by the way it looked it wasnt more durable than just a block of ice. because the average guns blasted it to pieces.

it doesnt have anything to do with conserving power. the robots shot him and he felt pain from laser shots, which means his durability was that low. it has nothing to do with saving energy. if you feel the pain than you feel the pain you dont choose to feel pain just to save energy it doesnt even make sense.

well can you provide a scan showing he reserved on stacked up some portion of solar energy in his cells or his boom suit? the only way i see this statement is a fency depiction of the fact he was using all the powers he has left with. however claiming he had some secret solar reserve that he activated and suddenly empowered him to some degree would be unbacked theory.

him getting old is just showing his durability was very low at that point and he was aging with the time flying by. it has nothing to do with energy reservings.

yes and i preety sure anyone will agree with me on that one. being hurt by casual laser shots from robots, unable to break an ice cave, unable to tear off the wall the vent bars. but then beat the hell out of time itself and punch into the future while altering events is inconsistant. if you think he had some hidden reserves of solar energy which he activated please provide the evidence to that. until then he was just inconsistant

So much fail, and I'm too tired right now.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So much fail, and I'm too tired right now.

oh come on now you are taking it personal? if i fail somewhere then show it. other than that no need to be rude on a character discussion.

Originally posted by RealPizzaBoy
oh come on now you are taking it personal? if i fail somewhere then show it. other than that no need to be rude on a character discussion.

How is saying "so much fail" taking it personally? And for one, you keep saying he doesn't have reserves. If he doesn't have reserves, how does he have powers after being cut off from his power source? Not having reserves would mean he's immediately powerless. Not losing his powers, his powers immediately gone. Completely. Answer that.

Originally posted by Delta1938
How is saying "so much fail" taking it personally? And for one, you keep saying he doesn't have reserves. If he doesn't have reserves, how does he have powers after being cut off from his power source? Not having reserves would mean he's immediately powerless. Not losing his powers, his powers immediately gone. Completely. Answer that.

because he is losing his powers graduately, it was stated so. he doesnt bam lose his powers in a moment, he is extremely powerful being and it takes time to drain him from his power. i think you and me misundertood each other. when you say he used reserves to punch the time barrier what did you mean? did you mean he simply used all he have left in him? or did you mean he has some kind of savings which he activated and restored some of his powers while punching?

Originally posted by RealPizzaBoy
because he is losing his powers graduately, it was stated so. he doesnt bam lose his powers in a moment, he is extremely powerful being and it takes time to drain him from his power. i think you and me misundertood each other. when you say he used reserves to punch the time barrier what did you mean? did you mean he simply used all he have left in him? or did you mean he has some kind of savings which he activated and restored some of his powers while punching?

I don't think you know what energy reserves are.....

Originally posted by Delta1938
I don't think you know what energy reserves are.....

please enlighten me what did you mean with energy reservings. as if its what left in him or reserves he had which he activated and gave him boost