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Force sabers all out

I would mark either member of team two superior to either member of team one.

Team two has this.

Scourge > Malgus
Kun > Wrath

Probably team 2.

Originally posted by Based
Scourge > Malgus

Originally posted by ares834

Originally posted by ares834

Nyriss stated that Scourge has a gift in that he gets a massive amp by feeding on the emotions of his opponent. Malgus' emotions are on par with a teenage girl who just got dumped at prom. He'll amp Scourge to the point where he slaughters him.

Not to mention that most of the Dark Council fears him and Malgus has never been deemed worthy of a spot.

But y'all can just suck each others dicks instead.

Uh, Malgus didn't want a spot on the Council and instead left to the outer reaches of the galaxy to lead campaigns. That's mentioned in his bio on the TOR website (or at least it was).

Plus his feats are far better than anything than Scourge has ever done.

Originally posted by ares834
Uh, Malgus didn't want a spot on the Council and instead left to the outer reaches of the galaxy to lead campaigns. That's mentioned in his bio on the TOR website (or at least it was).

It's as if people don't even pretend that they don't play TOR. Yes, before the game started Malgus was off in the unknown regions. He came back however and plans the flashpoints the player character plays through. His official rank is "commander of the Expeditionary fleet." There's dozens of Sith that outrank him in a society in which individual power means everything.




We're using TOR characters so this is a poor fallback argument. Half the shit we argue involves no feats at all.

Originally posted by Based
It's as if people don't even pretend that they don't play TOR. Yes, before the game started Malgus was off in the unknown regions. He came back however and plans the flashpoints the player character plays through. His official rank is "commander of the Expeditionary fleet." There's dozens of Sith that outrank him in a society in which individual power means everything.

WTF are you going on about here? He didn't want to be on the Council. That was my point. So the fact that he isn't on the council is, well, irrelevant. And it depends on what you mean by "individual power". Political power is important as is "combat power".

Originally posted by Based
We're using TOR characters so this is a poor fallback argument. Half the shit we argue involves no feats at all.



It always comes down to feats and statements. Regardless, Malgus was knocking around either the Imperial or Republic strike team, either of which puts him well above the guy who lost to an Act 2 HoT.

Team 2.

Originally posted by ares834
WTF are you going on about here? He didn't want to be on the Council. That was my point. So the fact that he isn't on the council is, well, irrelevant. And it depends on what you mean by "individual power". Political power is important as is "combat power".





It always comes down to feats and statements. Regardless, Malgus was knocking around either the Imperial or Republic strike team, either of which puts him well above the guy who lost to an Act 2 HoT.


Team 1 is outclassed.

Originally posted by ares834
Uh, Malgus didn't want a spot on the Council and instead left to the outer reaches of the galaxy to lead campaigns. That's mentioned in his bio on the TOR website (or at least it was).

Plus his feats are far better than anything than Scourge has ever done.
Did Malgus slaughtered over a thousand Jedi and Sith?

Let us not overlook the fact that Scourge became Emperor's Wrath and his capabilities were augmented by Emperor Vitiate to fulfill this extremely demanding role.

Not arguing who is better but Emperor's Wrath I is not without substance and his combat record his incredible by mythos standards.

---

I doubt that Emperor's Wrath II is inferior to any member of Team 2.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Did Malgus slaughtered over a thousand Jedi and Sith?

Nope. But the fact is Act II HoT<Act III HoT. Act IV HoT couldn't solo Malgus, but a younger and less experienced version of them absolutely destroyed Scourge. Accolades mean absolute shit in the face of actual feats.

And? See point above. It wasn't good enough

And Malgus' has feats to back up his claims to power. Guess which one matter more? The hyperbolic wording of a DC member and the Encyclopedia, or the in game showing?

As someone who always supports the Wrath in almost any debate, I can go ahead and say that both members of Team II would destroy the Wrath.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nope. But the fact is Act II HoT<Act III HoT. Act IV HoT couldn't solo Malgus, but a younger and less experienced version of them absolutely destroyed Scourge. Accolades mean absolute shit in the face of actual feats.
Act I HoT was impressed by powers of Jedi Master Orgus Din but defeated an adversary in single combat who defeated Jedi Master Orgus Din earlier.

Emperor Wrath I killed over a thousand Jedi and Sith during his span of existence which is phenomenal display of power and skill. Only Hero of Tython bested Emperor Wrath I in a span of centuries, this is one of the former's most impressive combat victories and representation of his insane power and skill. Hero of Tython had arguably already surpassed every Jedi in power at the time of his confrontation with Emperor's Wrath I, superior to even Jedi Master Revan at this point. Think.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And? See point above. It wasn't good enough
Realize the error in your logic now?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And Malgus' has feats to back up his claims to power. Guess which one matter more? The hyperbolic wording of a DC member and the Encyclopedia, or the in game showing?
Emperor Wrath I have the feat of killing over a thousand Jedi and Sith.

TOR Encyclopedia is the best TOR era book released till date.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
As someone who always supports the Wrath in almost any debate, I can go ahead and say that both members of Team II would destroy the Wrath.
You may believe what you want, it isn't concrete.

Act 2 Tython is not superior to Revan.

or Malgus.


Hell, I beat Malgus would beat weakened Voiciate in a fight as well.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Act 2 Tython is not superior to Revan.

Or is he? :iwin:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Act I HoT was impressed by powers of Jedi Master Orgus Din but defeated an adversary in single combat who defeated Jedi Master Orgus Din earlier.

Even if this point actually mattered, Orgus was turned over by the Twi'leks. They all ambushed him.

You need to think. Slaying thousands of mooks and no names doesn't stack to in game showings. And considering Act II HoT's greatest feat is defeating someone well below Revan in raw power, I'm not sure how you made that conclusion.

Yep, for some reason I keep replying to your wanking of people with your only justification of their power being the era they were born in and their kill count, even when said kill count doesn't have any judge of skill, power levels, or even number during each confrontation.

Not that impressive, especially considering the amount of time he's been alive. In an age where you could through a cat and hit a Jedi or Sith.

And? The number of Jedi he's killed means shit when he can't compete with the powerhouses before their primes.

What has the Wrath done to be on Kun or Malgus' level? The Wrath couldn't solo Malgus either, and Kun is well above Malgus.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Did Malgus slaughtered over a thousand Jedi and Sith?

Let us not overlook the fact that Scourge became Emperor's Wrath and his capabilities were augmented by Emperor Vitiate to fulfill this extremely demanding role.

Not arguing who is better but Emperor's Wrath I is not without substance and his combat record his incredible by mythos standards.

---

I doubt that Emperor's Wrath II is inferior to any member of Team 2.

You realise Scourge lived for 300 years right?

That's 3.3 Sith or Jedi per year.
What an Impressive record

Also, why are we using Game mechanics here?

If you go into Malgus alone, he greets you by name, which very well means he could have only been bested in Single combat.

Noting of course that he's ****ing easy to Solo >_>

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Even if this point actually mattered, Orgus was turned over by the Twi'leks. They all ambushed him.
You mean Flesh Raiders?

I don't think even a bunch of Flesh Raiders would be sufficient to stop Jedi Master Orgus Din. Bengel Morr was the real threat to him.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You need to think. Slaying thousands of mooks and no names doesn't stack to in game showings. And considering Act II HoT's greatest feat is defeating someone well below Revan in raw power, I'm not sure how you made that conclusion.
Lord Scourge actually had immense potential in the Force which other prominent Force-users sensed in him, potential that Lord Scourge successfully tapped during his time as Emperor's Wrath I.

You have incredible potential. (Darth Nyriss)

Revan had sensed the Force in him; he had incredible potential. (Jedi Master Revan)

Emperor's Wrath I is a different ballgame then young Lord Scourge who met Jedi Master Revan. Emperor Vitiate performed experiments on Lord Scourge to transform him into an extremely powerful warrior, a warrior who was strong enough to serve as Emperor's personal executioner and not be susceptible to negative effects/decline that comes with aging.

There was only one Scourge, his life prolonged by Sith Alchemy, and his battle prowess enhanced by the Emperor. (TOR Encyclopedia)

Therefore, you cannot realistically claim that Emperor's Wrath I is far below Revan. Emperor's Wrath I is likely about Darth Nyriss and a good match for Revan, IMO. He is legitimately among the most powerful Sith to have ever existed.

Also, you think that Emperor Vitiate would use his personal executioner to target mooks?

When a Jedi grew too powerful or a Sith too ambitious, Scourge eliminated the threat. (TOR Encyclopedia)

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yep, for some reason I keep replying to your wanking of people with your only justification of their power being the era they were born in and their kill count, even when said kill count doesn't have any judge of skill, power levels, or even number during each confrontation.
I don't blindly wank TOR era characters by virtue of my liking of the era in general. I have studied TOR content books, played the game and connected the dots properly from all available revelations to formulate an understanding of the ground realities of TOR era.

You have no idea of how good Emperor's Wrath I is and yet you claim to be a supporter of Emperor's Wrath in debates. Most important thing for you is to have complete knowledge of whom you choose debate in favor for.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not that impressive, especially considering the amount of time he's been alive. In an age where you could through a cat and hit a Jedi or Sith.
Not that impressive?

Tell me the kill count of Jedi Master Yoda (excluding shitty droids). Age is irrelevant, great power and combat prowess of Emperor's Wrath I is apparent from his phenomenal combat record. An ordinary individual cannot kill over a thousand Jedi and Sith and live to tell the tale, let alone, have such an impressive kill count.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And? The number of Jedi he's killed means shit when he can't compete with the powerhouses before their primes.

What has the Wrath done to be on Kun or Malgus' level? The Wrath couldn't solo Malgus either, and Kun is well above Malgus.
He can't compete with the powerhouses before their primes?

ENTIRE GENERATIONS of the Sith Dark Council have passed under the watchful eyes of the Emperor's personal executioner, the grim Lord Scourge. As the feared "Emperor's Wrath." Scourge enforced his Master's will for more then three centuries. When a Jedi grew to powerful and Sith too ambitious, Scourge eliminated the threat. (TOR Encyclopedia)

---

Exar Kun is well above Darth Malgus? This keeps on getting interesting.

Originally posted by Selenial
You realise Scourge lived for 300 years right?

That's 3.3 Sith or Jedi per year.
What an Impressive record
This makes no sense.

Emperor's Wrath I survived in over a thousand battles against Jedi and Sith and slaughtered most of his enemies/targets in return. Is this not an indication of his extreme power and combat ability?

Age is irrelevant argument. An individual can be over a thousand years old and have 0 kill count or may not be able to take on a single Jedi.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You mean Flesh Raiders?

No.

And soliders have never, ever, ever, ever, ever overwhelmed Jedi when they are caught by surprise. Oh wait... Then again those Jedi didn't live in the Era of Awesomeness.

This is said to literally every person with a name in Star Wars.

And he still lost to an opponent before his/her prime. Badly. An opponent who was not on Malgus' or Kun's level when the encounter happened.

I'm sorry....what? That's some of the most awful reasoning I have ever heard. None of those things put him on anyone's level on their own. Also Nyriss was not a match for Revan by a long shot.

Yes.

That doesn't make them powerhouses anymore than saying, "The Force is strong in you," means you're a powerhouse. In fact, that sentence says that before anyone could become a threat, Scourge was sent to kill them.


Okay. It's not my place to argue your delusions. You're obviously happy in this world where everything was better, but then somehow got worse because reasons. Far be it from me to tell you to leave it.

I don't have to support a character just because I like them anymore than I have to support how good a character is based on their age and corporal state.

They can when they get to live as the Emperor's personal assassin for 300 years. And Yoda's kill count of mooks is irrelevant. I judge him by displaces of power, especially in one sitting, not the number of droids he's destroyed.

And still lost to the HoT, who is by no means a god of the saber at this point in the story. I'm not sure how you don't understand this. You can keep spaming that mastabatory quote for Scourge as many times as you want. It won't change anything.

To be fair, Kun didn't get to breath the same air as Vitiate, my bad.

Kun is above Malgus due to superior force ability, as duelists they're probably equal more or less or at the very least on the same tier.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No.

And soliders have never, ever, ever, ever, ever overwhelmed Jedi when they are caught by surprise. Oh wait... Then again those Jedi didn't live in the Era of Awesomeness.
Do you have proof for your claim that Jedi Master Orgus Din was overwhelmed in an ambush?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
This is said to literally every person with a name in Star Wars.
Sweeping generalization

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And he still lost to an opponent before his/her prime. Badly. An opponent who was not on Malgus' or Kun's level when the encounter happened.
Hint: "You are the Jedi's finest."

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I'm sorry....what? That's some of the most awful reasoning I have ever heard. None of those things put him on anyone's level on their own. Also Nyriss was not a match for Revan by a long shot.
My point is that Lord Scourge became more powerful during his reign as Emperor's Wrath, much more powerful since he monitored even the Dark Council.

I mistakenly wrote about, I believe that Emperor's Wrath surpassed Darth Nyriss.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yes.
Amazing counter-argument. If your plan is to exchange jokes, let me know.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That doesn't make them powerhouses anymore than saying, "The Force is strong in you," means you're a powerhouse. In fact, that sentence says that before anyone could become a threat, Scourge was sent to kill them.
When a Jedi grew too powerful = powerful Jedi in plain and simple terms.

As far as Sith are concerned, Emperor's Wrath monitored all Sith in the Empire.

Emperor's Wrath is one of the most demanding and risky roles in the Empire. Only Sith of great power can perform this role.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Okay. It's not my place to argue your delusions. You're obviously happy in this world where everything was better, but then somehow got worse because reasons. Far be it from me to tell you to leave it.
My delusions?

Sith went in to decline after the fall of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire and end result was Brotherhood of Darkness. Then Darth Bane arrived, ended the Brotherhood of Darkness and created a new Sith Order which would make Sith strong again, this improvement continued till Darth Sidious. After this powerful Sith emerged on periodical basis.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I don't have to support a character just because I like them anymore than I have to support how good a character is based on their age and corporal state.
How can you even debate in favor of a character without adequate knowledge of the character's ground realities and capabilities? You cannot and your attempts would be feeble.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
They can when they get to live as the Emperor's personal assassin for 300 years. And Yoda's kill count of mooks is irrelevant. I judge him by displaces of power, especially in one sitting, not the number of droids he's destroyed.
You are not making any sense here.

You do realize that Emperor's Wrath I was not immune or omnipotent, right? His life was at stake in every battle in the same way as that of his opponents.

The fact that Emperor's Wrath managed to kill so many Sith and powerful Jedi is testament to his enormous power and extraordinary combat prowess.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And still lost to the HoT, who is by no means a god of the saber at this point in the story. I'm not sure how you don't understand this. You can keep spaming that mastabatory quote for Scourge as many times as you want. It won't change anything.
Really?

HoT had subdued Lord Praven earlier, a Sith Lord who have history of defeating one of the greatest duelists of the Jedi Order in its history during the Sacking of Coruscant event.

I suggest that you refresh your knowledge with this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t586426.html

HoT wasn't lacking in abilities at the time of end of Act II, don't be ridiculous.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
To be fair, Kun didn't get to breath the same air as Vitiate, my bad.
Darth Sidious acknowledged Darth Malgus as one of his most powerful predecessors and also noted that the latter's battlefield feats have never been duplicated. I am sure that Darth Sidious would have known about Exar Kun as well.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do you have proof for your claim that Jedi Master Orgus Din was overwhelmed in an ambush?

Play the game.

Not really.

What is with you and taking hyperbolic statements as fact? Unless they show it at the time, then that statement means nothing.

Your point as no basis. While Scourge is more powerful, you don't know by how much. You're just making statements based on nothing but your opinions.

Based on?

What's there to joke about? Why wouldn't the Emperor send his "personal enforcer" to enforce his will? It's kind of in the job description.

No it doesn't. Why would you wait until they were powerful when you could nip the bud while it's growing?

And?

There have only been two of them, both used because of the opportunity. You don't get to set standards, LeGenD. The most opportunistic, not the most powerful Sith, is used.

Um, no. While the Sith as a whole declined, tech, Force power(which has nothing to do with organization strength), and skill did not. The Sith as a whole undoubtedly improved under Bane's Rule of Two. The idea that the galaxy as a whole also became weaker for some reason is also ludicrous.

I wouldn't know, but you seem to be doing a fine job of it, so I think I'll manage.

No it isn't. It's a testament to how long he lived. He had ample to reach the almighty kill count you keep attributing to him. If he had done that in a life time, sure, it'd be amazing. It wouldn't be a testament to his power, but it'd be amazing. In this situation, it is neither. Power comes from display, not number. Quality over quantity. Here, he has one, but not proof of the former.

I suggest you don't tell me what to catch up on when you hardly know what you're talking about yourself. I've played through the HoT's story a few times now. S/he still has limitations, limitations that Malgus is able to exploit well after their first confrontation with the Emperor. The fact that you keep ignoring that and trying to hide behind a respect thread, which are made to show only the strengths of characters not their weaknesses, is proof enough that you can't get past the fact that Scourge is not on Malgus' level, when Malgus was able to contend with a more powerful version, plus three of the galaxies finest. well after the HoT stomped Scourge.

I'm sorry, what did this prove? Malgus acknowledges Exar Kun as a true Sith, and many Sith put him above Malgus, since we're using that instead of feats as proof of power.

When was this?

He didn't.

I didn't think so.

Originally posted by carthage
When was this?
It's made apparent that the Sith make big deal out of Kun during the Wrath's story on Korriban. While it's possible Malgus is the odd one out, I doubt it.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's made apparent that the Sith make big deal out of Kun during the Wrath's story on Korriban. While it's possible Malgus is the odd one out, I doubt it.

Really?

I know they discuss Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow's combat abilities during the AC choosing discussion, didn't know Kun was mentioned at all.

Someone calls Wrath the 'second coming of Exar kun" or something like that iirc

Originally posted by Selenial
Really?

I know they discuss Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow's combat abilities during the AC choosing discussion, didn't know Kun was mentioned at all.
Something about the Wrath being super powerful and people thinking he's the second coming of Exar Kun. It's passing dialogue.

Wrath is a legitimately powerful swordsman, and his defeat of Baras suggets a parity with Kun and Malgus to an extent. I couldve made this topic better though by putting someone else instead of Scourge.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have played Jedi Knight story up to level 50 content.

Orgus Din is depicted laying on the feet of Bengel Morr, indicating the two had a confrontation. Details of this confrontation have not been provided.

The Twi'leks talk about it when they try to capture you.

Don't pull that shit, LeGenD. Being praised as powerful is given to every random person with a name out there. I'm already wasting much of my time replying to your asinine responses. I'm not going to make a list of everyone called powerful.

Scourge, let's say that to not confuse, also thinks the HoT can wield the Emperor's full power by the end of Act III. Again I ask, what is with you using hyperbolic praise as fact. Especially from someone trying to manipulate the you into serving their purposes. The HoT did not display anything that put them on Revan's level as of the end of Act II, and Scourge hasn't displayed anything to put him on Nyriss' level throughout the entire story.

The Emperor making Scourge into his enforcer and amping him is not a measure of Scourge's power. Seriously, implying that because he is the Wrath he must be at anyone's level is again, foolish, because it doesn't translate into anything besides your opinion. As you've provided absolutely nothing to prove any of Scourge's hype besides he's an experienced swordsman, I'm not going to assume that he is uber powerful.

That's great, where are the feats that back up his supposed strength that makes him above Malgus or Kun. I've never denied that Scourge has strength, but saying that because someone does not want to fight Scourge that they must be weaker than him is a fallacy.

Anything to back up the claim? No? Let's move on then.

I'm sorry, not really, but saying that because Scourge killed them, they must have been extremely skilled and powerful Sith and Jedi that would have been a threat to the Emperor at the time of their killing is also baseless. For one who talks about common sense, you seem to think that everyone waits until someone is at their peak to challenge them.

You don't know the difference between has and had.

Don't put words in my mouth. What I said is that the Wrath was sent to kill Jedi and Sith before they became too powerful and a threat to the Emperor. That does not mean that they must be apprentices and Padawans. It means that they are killed before they become true threats or grow into their full power, as anyone with the common sense you claim to have would have done.

I advice you learn on what that means.

And you don't get the point. The Wrath monitoring the Empire does not make the Wrath any more powerful than anyone else. Again, without feats to back up his power it is completely your opinion with no basis. While it comes with implied competency, you cannot claim he is above anyone with actual feats to support their power.

Bane's goal was to accomplish what the ancient Sith could not, which was total domination of the galaxy, a feat the the Sith Empire has not been shown to accomplish. Ancient knowledge was rediscovered and converted for many lifetimes to accomplish this. That does not mean that by the time of the PT the Sith had just caught up to the ancient Sith, and it also has nothing to do with the entire galaxy suddenly losing any knowledge they would have gained for Sith tech, most of which had nothing to do with the Dark Side.

Get off your high horse. All you've done is annoy me for a good month and a half and put me on the verge of vomiting. But as the idea that you believe you have the right to claim that you have educated me is laughable, I'll continue replying for the hell of it.

Having three hundred years to kill 1000 people is not super impressive in the role of an enforcer when you have no idea of the placing of said kills in any time frame. Do not insult my understanding of English, when you obviously aren't reading what anyone is saying.

No it's not. Praven defeat at the hands of the HoT is from all accounts do to the HoT's power more than their skill in the saber. If you actually played the Knight's storyline, you would know that. And as the HoT has a natural power level well above just about anyone in SWTOR, saying that because they beat Praven, they must be on par with anyone in sabers is baseless.

Malgus has feats to suggest his power, while Scourge has literally only opinions. If he can't show said power that you claim he has, it means nothing.

Except I actually saw the HoT defeat the Emperor with their mastery of the Force, and it was just someone stating, "The HoT traveled around the galaxy and defeated many Sith. Everyone in the Jedi Order respected them and knew that they were indeed their champion. S/he was truly redeemed."

I've already been through that. If it's not enough for you, whatever.

And if you're going to keep replying stop with the thousand line posts.

Exar Kun could possibly solo this with his sorcery, not just with Force Blast, but with that external Essence Transfer technique that he took Luke out with, he also froze lightsabers IIRC.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Scourge, let's say that to not confuse, also thinks the HoT can wield the Emperor's full power by the end of Act III.

Hmm??? Got a quote for this?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No it's not. Praven defeat at the hands of the HoT is from all accounts do to the HoT's power more than their skill in the saber. If you actually played the Knight's storyline, you would know that. And as the HoT has a natural power level well above just about anyone in SWTOR, saying that because they beat Praven, they must be on par with anyone in sabers is baseless.

Praven indicates the HoT beat him with both skill and power and marvels at both.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hmm??? Got a quote for this?

"There's been a distress call from the Twi'lek settlement...I'm on my way to the settlement meet me there."

"Matriarch stand aside, handing over the boy/girl's master wasn't enough. This Padawan has to die"
"Bengel Morr came to me. He said he would end the flesh raider attacks if we gave him your master."


While no doubt the HoT was skilled, saying was as they grew considerably throughout the next few years and had training on board the Emperor's Station, growing more there, Praven was more marveled by their power and honor than anything, it seemed to me. Ancient Sith stuff.

Originally posted by Based
Nyriss stated that Scourge has a gift in that he gets a massive amp by feeding on the emotions of his opponent. Malgus' emotions are on par with a teenage girl who just got dumped at prom. He'll amp Scourge to the point where he slaughters him.
But y'all can just suck each others dicks instead.
It's like one of those silly vaapad arguments.

Yes, he can feed on emotions of opponents. Yes it makes him stronger and no, it doesn't give him advantage over opponents. Feeding on emotions only helps realize own potential. Some characters draw on their own emotions, others draw on emotions of opponent, end result is the same - achieve peak performance according to given potential/capabilities.

Regardless, Scourge was shown in action only to feed on fear of mooks. His talent failed him against trained opponents in the same books. Malgus has no feer nor lack of training. Otherwise Scourge would gain huge amp from Vitiate's butthurt over being Force pushed by Revan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't ask for that quote.


Could have sworn. Anyway, I mean the part where he says Vitiate was supposed to be dead at their feat and the HoT wielded his power as their own. Take that as any meaning you want, many are unlikely. Not that Scourge saying the HoT is the greatest Jedi he has ever seen means anything post Act II, as that's not when he fought the HoT, and Scourge has been having wet dreams about them for 300 years.

So much and such are very different and don't sound equal at all.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Could have sworn. Anyway, I mean the part where he says Vitiate was supposed to be dead at their feat and the HoT wielded his power as their own. Take that as any meaning you want, many are unlikely. Not that Scourge saying the HoT is the greatest Jedi he has ever seen means anything post Act II, as that's not when he fought the HoT, and Scourge has been having wet dreams about them for 300 years.

Ah, I see what you mean now. Ok. I don't quite get your second point though. How does that not mean anything? Scourge had wet dreams about the Hero for a reason. Every other Jedi failed, only the Hero could beat Vitiate.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So much and such are very different and don't sound equal at all.

Well they are. In both cases he's marveling at them. So your argument that the HoT only beat him through raw power is pretty obviously bunk. Clearly she displayed impressive skill as well in the fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ah, I see what you mean now. Ok. I don't quite get your second point though. How does that not mean anything? Scourge had wet dreams about the Hero for a reason. Every other Jedi failed, only the Hero could beat Vitiate.

Very true, given the circumstances only the Hero could defeat Vitiate. But we're talking about pre-Act III HoT here. As they've grown in the time since Scourge fought them, I can't really judge Scourge's statements of how powerful they are. Either way, he's manipulating the Hero the entire time, and I won't take his words as facts.

Never said they weren't skilled, as I won't deny what's said in game. I took the statement as Praven being impressed more with their power, you obviously didn't. This, however, is beginning to delve into semantics, and the Hero of Tython has nothing to do with this matchup. Them becoming even more versatile of a fighter doesn't make Scourge any better by being stomped by them, and as they were able to block Vitiate's Lighting longer than anyone, I'm guessing they weren't very injured.

@FreshestSlice

Good lord, are you OK?

You are overlooking important points and arguing for the sake of argument, making this debate unconstructive.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Twi'leks talk about it when they try to capture you.
Provide evidence.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Don't pull that shit, LeGenD. Being praised as powerful is given to every random person with a name out there. I'm already wasting much of my time replying to your asinine responses. I'm not going to make a list of everyone called powerful.
You made a claim that everybody is stated to have "immense" potential. When I asked you to validate your claim with evidence, you are now backing out.

Son, here is an advice: don't make claims that you are (not) willing to validate when requested to.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Scourge, let's say that to not confuse, also thinks the HoT can wield the Emperor's full power by the end of Act III. Again I ask, what is with you using hyperbolic praise as fact. Especially from someone trying to manipulate the you into serving their purposes. The HoT did not display anything that put them on Revan's level as of the end of Act II, and Scourge hasn't displayed anything to put him on Nyriss' level throughout the entire story.
There is so much dialogue in the game that it is hard to properly memorize all of it. Once again, provide evidence of this dialogue.

Prior to confrontation with Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath), HoT had eliminated legions of enemies in different planets, solved many issues (dealt with many challenges), and defeated several powerful and notable adversaries on separate occasions such as Bengel Morr, Sith Lord Tarnis, Ako Domi, Sith Lord Sadic, Valis (Child of the Emperor), Sith Lord Praven, Kira Carsen (possessed by Emperor) and Darth Angral.
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HoT is also officially identified as one of the strongest and most resolute Jedi of the Order at the time of his first confrontation with Emperor. Though Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath) pointed out that HoT is "Jedi's finest" at this point.
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So once again, what makes you think that HoT does not holds a candle to earlier champions of the Order during ACT II?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Emperor making Scourge into his enforcer and amping him is not a measure of Scourge's power. Seriously, implying that because he is the Wrath he must be at anyone's level is again, foolish, because it doesn't translate into anything besides your opinion. As you've provided absolutely nothing to prove any of Scourge's hype besides he's an experienced swordsman, I'm not going to assume that he is uber powerful.


Emperor empowered Lord Scourge "permanently" to make him suitable for Emperor's Wrath role. I provided evidence: There was only one Scourge, his life prolonged by Sith Alchemy, and his battle prowess enhanced by the Emperor. (TOR Encyclopedia)

The term "battle prowess" covers every factor that comes in to play for offensive actions, not just martial arts.

The primary purpose of Emperor's Wrath is to eliminate threats to Emperor himself. This is combat-oriented role and involves supervision of even the most powerful Sith of the Empire (Emperor excluded). Logically, only an exceptionally strong Sith can deliver in this kind of role.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's great, where are the feats that back up his supposed strength that makes him above Malgus or Kun. I've never denied that Scourge has strength, but saying that because someone does not want to fight Scourge that they must be weaker than him is a fallacy.

Anything to back up the claim? No? Let's move on then.


Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath) have not been officially depicted in action much. Known feats are sending HoT packing with a powerful wave of energy at one point during confrontation with him (Yes, this is coded action sequence like Revan's asteroid pulling action sequence) and single-handedly eliminating a group of Sith with seemingly telekinetic powers to prevent execution of HoT's allies on another occasion. These two events indicate that Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath) is highly competent in ways of the Force.
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In addition, as I pointed out before, I am not in the position to accurately rank Lord Scourge (Emperor's Wrath) in the Empire, only authors can do this. I can only assert that he is one of the greatest warriors of the Empire and can hold his own against even the most powerful Sith in the Empire with exception of Emperor, should the situation demand.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I'm sorry, not really, but saying that because Scourge killed them, they must have been extremely skilled and powerful Sith and Jedi that would have been a threat to the Emperor at the time of their killing is also baseless. For one who talks about common sense, you seem to think that everyone waits until someone is at their peak to challenge them.


Read this statement again: When a Jedi grew too powerful or a Sith too ambitious, Scourge eliminated the threat. (TOR Encyclopedia)

Key word is "when."

Q: Do you think that a Jedi padawan or Sith apprentice would pose a threat to Emperor and his plans?

Only those Jedi and Sith were targeted for assassination who were actually identified as a threat to Emperor and his plans for reasons including power, ambition and plans against Emperor. No rocket science in this matter.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You don't know the difference between has and had.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Don't put words in my mouth. What I said is that the Wrath was sent to kill Jedi and Sith before they became too powerful and a threat to the Emperor. That does not mean that they must be apprentices and Padawans. It means that they are killed before they become true threats or grow into their full power, as anyone with the common sense you claim to have would have done.
See above


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I advice you learn on what that means.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And you don't get the point. The Wrath monitoring the Empire does not make the Wrath any more powerful than anyone else. Again, without feats to back up his power it is completely your opinion with no basis. While it comes with implied competency, you cannot claim he is above anyone with actual feats to support their power.
See above

I'll point out that more people than just Scourge had called the Hero the Order's greatest Jedi by this point.

I'll respond to you by tonight LeGenD, but you're going to blatantly ignore the quotes I already provided about the Twi'leks I'm not going to bother responding. Especially when you continue to spam the same quotes over and over again and try to base your opinion as fact into massive page long posts. .

As for the HoT being the Order's greatest Jedi, again what does that have to do with this thread, and where did I say that they weren't? That doesn't make them the greatest Jedi in history and it has nothing to do with them being more powerful than Revan at that point.

@FreshestSlice

I am paying attention to your statements, that is how I am responding. If you have been asked to present evidence for certain points, it is for the purpose of greater knowledge.

Also, you are operating with a pre-determined mindset about certain stuff. I have presented official information to support my points but you continue to ignore them and present your own theories. I had to cite quotes again and again to make you understand the errors in your interpretation of them and your theories.