Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Setting is the Cell Games arena/battlefield

Which team takes it?

not sure why you pt Chojiro in this thread since we saw him do nothing on panel except get one shot by Ichigo and die a shameful death in his Captain's office.

anyhow, crispy ninja.

I put him for the simple fact that generally Bleach is regarded as a stronger universe than Naruto, so I put the captain commander and his featless lieutenant against arguably the two strongest in Naruto.

You sell them short.

Not to place a no limits fallacy but we have seen far weaker ninja take a river of fire to the face unharmed.

Madara should solo honestly.

no fire in Naruto is on Yama's level. Not even close.

Madara and Hashi are no immune to heat.

they die.

Madara or Hashirama solo, killing Yamamoto before he even begins using his Bankai.

it's not soloing if 2 out of the 2 people are needed. ahah

also, you think they're faster than Yama?

Originally posted by marwash22
it's not soloing if 2 out of the 2 people are needed. ahah

also, you think they're faster than Yama? I said "or", not "and", lern2English.

Absolutely.

my mistake, misread your post. Thought you said 'and' instead of or.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Absolutely. based on?

Originally posted by marwash22
no fire in Naruto is on Yama's level. Not even close.

Madara and Hashi are no immune to heat

they die. no offence but this reminds me of the anime lightning argument the hardcore comic fans use lol.

I'm not saying immune but both have very powerful shields and the ability to disperse large amounts of fire.

Originally posted by marwash22
based on? Reacting to and deflecting Biju bombs which move faster than Yamamoto.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Reacting to and deflecting Biju bombs which move faster than Yamamoto. from a distance tho.

Not seeing how that makes them faster than a guy who literally teleports.
Originally posted by pym-ftw
no offence but this reminds me of the anime lightning argument the hardcore comic fans use lol.
i don't know the context of what you're talking about to be offended by it.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I'm not saying immune but both have very powerful shields and the ability to disperse large amounts of fire.
Yama doesn't use normal fire, the amount of flames naruto characters produce is irrelevant when you compare their flames heat to Yama's. You're especially damaging your own argument when we consistently see naruto character avoid those "ordinary" flames in effort to not get burned to death. Yama's flames are substantially hotter than anything in the Naruto universe outside of the actual sun.

Originally posted by marwash22
from a distance tho.

Not seeing how that makes them faster than a guy who literally teleports. But they're so fast the distance doesn't matter.

"Literally teleports"? Flash Step enables you to move so fast you appear to teleport.

Genin could pull this off in Naruto.

You can do better than that.

shunpo lets you jump over spaces.

it's not simply running from point A to point C, shunpo let's you completely skip over point B and get to point C.

Shunpo is not running fast, and no, a genin can not duplicate it.

staph it.

That just makes it worse though.

If it isn't based on individual speed and it's the same for everyone, then it's not speed at all. It's just teleportation, and they apparently can't control themselves during it according to you.

So it's really only good for Yamamoto if he want sot run away, which would be a good idea for him. He might survive.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That just makes it worse though.

If it isn't based on individual speed and it's the same for everyone, then it's not speed at all. It's just teleportation, and they apparently can't control themselves during it according to you.

So it's really only good for Yamamoto if he want sot run away, which would be a good idea for him. He might survive.



Some people (like Yoruichi) are better adept in shunpo than others. The basis of the move is speed, but it's not simply about running to your destination.

You should know this stuff, Neme. I'm pretty sure you've been reading Bleach longer than i have.


Use it to run away? lol.

How would shunpo not help Yama get behind Madara and Hashi and punch their heads off before they can formulate a thought?

When the Hokage and Madara are in normal alive versions they do not appear to be nearly as strong as their resurrection modes. I mean Madara literally "dies" to the 1st tricking him with a wood clone and being stabbed in the back. Madara's most powerful move is using the 9-tails in his susanoo which is literally just a giant in living fire armor. The susanoo protects the person from a physical attack but if you effect everything around it, like the environment encompassing it, it has a major weakness which was shown several times.

The first hokage uses wood style, water and earth which probably in their separate forms would be more useful against Yamamoto.

Yamamoto is strong because he has total symbiosis with his zanpakto and an extraordinary amount of experience. His will is literally on fire in addition to his sword. He doesn't really even use kedo. Most of his fighting force seems to be strength, overwhelming, and will power in terms of spiritual energy.

It is a bit of a match. I am just not sure how durable the Naruto characters are if they are just in normal form. It didn't seem like they had a lot of endurance as most of their fights with one another seemed to be desperate boughts of endurance to continue using spiritual energy.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
When the Hokage and Madara are in normal alive versions they do not appear to be nearly as strong as their resurrection modes.


I didn't want to make them their Edo versions because yeah, they have unlimited chakra/stamina and can't be destroyed. It's hard to quantify speed feats between the two universes. One is supposedly ninjas, some of whom have godlike feats, while the other is a universe full of shinigami and beings who's speed/strength 'should' be much higher, but I just don't know. Yamamoto is an absolute beast, but something tells me the First and Madara would be enough to overwhelm him together.

The 13 court guards supposedly embody the traits of sin like the Espada and Shinigami translates to Death God

I agree that the two universes are hard to translate in speed. I think that the Naruto universe emphasizes less on speed as a feat of battle and more on trickery and spirit energy useage while Bleach has a wider range of characters that embody both physical ability and spirity ability and only a few people who use trickery. The two comparisons in this case are extreme spirit ability (Madara/1st) usage verses a character that embodies mainly physical ability. (Yamamoto) SO it is hard to compare them in a sense The only thing I can say in terms of trickery is that Yamamoto in terms of his experience and strategy usage sees through almost every trick except Aizens which is just kinda unfair trickery.

Originally posted by marwash22
from a distance tho.

Not seeing how that makes them faster than a guy who literally teleports.

i don't know the context of what you're talking about to be offended by it.


Yama doesn't use normal fire, the amount of flames naruto characters produce is irrelevant when you compare their flames heat to Yama's. You're especially damaging your own argument when we consistently see naruto character avoid those "ordinary" flames in effort to not get burned to death. Yama's flames are substantially hotter than anything in the Naruto universe outside of the actual sun. how people argue manga characters aren't lightspeeders because anime lightning is slower...

What are you basing this on, Amatarasu craps on Yamato's fire and even that seems to be no showed in battle. Originally posted by marwash22
shunpo lets you jump over spaces.

it's not simply running from point A to point C, shunpo let's you completely skip over point B and get to point C.

Shunpo is not running fast, and no, a genin can not duplicate it.

staph it. actually they have a very similar ability but the range is far less.

Originally posted by pym-ftw

What are you basing this on, Amatarasu craps on Yamato's fire and even that seems to be no showed in battle. actually they have a very similar ability but the range is far less.

While I agree that Yamamoto gets stomped, are you really serious about Amaterasu being >>>> Yamamoto's fire?

Amaterasu didn't get through armor before it was removed. Yamamoto's fire could have vaped a town had he not taken the attack himself, and his Bankai did this

Amaterasu is the deadlier fire, it's not the larger attack though.

Yamamotos bankai is absolute nothingness, it doesn't burn; it negates its existence with the heat of a sun. If you are touched by his sword you cease to exist and if you touch him in bankai, the same thing. People have been touched by Ameratsu and have tossed their clothes off and lived. It burns forever if it touches you when cast but its hardly negating existence.

I'm not seeing the difference? If either hits you, you will die if you don't stop it.

Just for those who don't know, lighting is as hot as the sun.

Is the equivalency rule in place with reiatsu being the same as chakra?

No, the sun is literally a fusion explosion. Lighting is just static from clouds. If you had a piece of plasma on the earth it would literally burn a hole through the earth as nothing can contain it.

So if i drop my plasma cutter, i will destroy the earth? I feel like a little warning on the machine is needed.

Since the equavlency rule is in place in the other thread then I'm assuming the same is true here. In which case Madara can solely pretty effortlessly lol.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Amaterasu is the deadlier fire, it's not the larger attack though.


Nah its not yamajii's fire is hotter burns way faster than amaterasu and turns everything it touches to ash within an instant. Amaterasu is a slow butning process. Weve seen many instances where an opponent lives from the attack because of the slow burn.

If we use the energy equivalence rule than yamma jii could still be seen as the possible victor because madara not the first hokage have ever exerted their "energy and made the person fall to their kneees and cease to breath. Yama jii's mere presence can crush an opponents soul.

On the flip side, a Madara can absorb Zanka no Tachi if reiatsu equals chakra.

or, ya know, Yama can shunpo behind them both and punch their heads off before either of them can react.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
On the flip side, a Madara can absorb Zanka no Tachi if reiatsu equals chakra.


Regardless yamma is still physically stronger fighter remember twin bones. That attack turned WW into ash

Originally posted by marwash22
or, ya know, Yama can shunpo behind them both and punch their heads off before either of them can react.



You say that as though teleporting is something Madara has never fought before.

Originally posted by yungz22
Regardless yamma is still physically stronger fighter remember twin bones. That attack turned WW into ash

Madara was pummeled by the Bijuu. It took a 45 tails hitting multiple times just to tear off his arm. And he would simply heal the damage lol.

Madara has not faced shunpo before. You can't compare FTG and the like to shunpo.

Also, a punch from Yama would explode his head. he's not healing anything. No one in Naruto has displayed the physical strength of Gin who was cutting buildings clean in half, and Yama absolutely dwarfs him in strength.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
You say that as though teleporting is something Madara has never fought before.



Madara was pummeled by the Bijuu. It took a 45 tails hitting multiple times just to tear off his arm. And he would simply heal the damage lol.


Madara has never withstood a physical attack that causes the body to fade away break down into ash.

The tsuchikage's Genkai hakuri would have killed madara if he wasnt an edo tensei at the time.

Originally posted by marwash22
Madara has not faced shunpo before. You can't compare FTG and the like to shunpo.

Also, a punch from Yama would explode his head. he's not healing anything. No one in Naruto has displayed the physical strength of Gin who was cutting buildings clean in half, and Yama absolutely dwarfs him in strength.

Indeed. FTG has far better feats. As does Mabui's move.

Yeah the Bijuu are weaker than city block busting.

Originally posted by yungz22
Madara has never withstood a physical attack that causes the body to fade away break down into ash.

The tsuchikage's Genkai hakuri would have killed madara if he wasnt an edo tensei at the time.

Neat. Too bad Wonderweiss didn't turn into ash until after he released the fire.

Well no since Madara can absorb chakra. And Yamamoto's flames as far as this thread is concerned lol.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Indeed. FTG has far better feats. As does Mabui's move.
Please explain how FTG is better than Shunpo in combat situations.


Originally posted by AuraAngel
Yeah the Bijuu are weaker than city block busting.you know what i meant.




Originally posted by AuraAngel
Neat. Too bad Wonderweiss didn't turn into ash until after he released the fire. wut? Wonderweiss got his body crumbled by Yama's twin bone punch. there was no fire.

Um, yeah, this thread is high.

Characters weaker than Madara were able to overcome Amaterasu, which is more impressive than what Yamamoto has shown, being able to heat up the atmosphere in seconds from thousands of miles away, as well as burning chakra enhanced flames.

Not to mention that Madara's AND Hashirama's destruction, durability, speed, AND strength feats ALL vastly outweigh anything shown in all of Bleach. Hell, Madara literally chopped down a mountain range with a single swing of his sword, and Hashirama overpowered even him.

Show me a feat on par with Madara summoning two meteors on top of each other with a thought, throwing country busting attacks over oceans and destroying the other side, and literally making a country sized wooden mech with a million arms, and the ability to knock out mountain range+ level biju by touching them with it's palm.

This is a rape stomp that begins and ends with Madara putting the other two in a genjutsu and vaporizing them.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Not to mention that Madara's AND Hashirama's destruction, durability, speed, AND strength feats ALL vastly outweigh anything shown in all of Bleach. lol.

What Naruto characters do with physical attacks, Bleach character do with shockwaves from indirect attacks.

Show me a character in Naruto completely tanking a blow from an opponent that casually knocks down buildings with it's hand.

Early series Kenny was cutting buildings in half from miles away with casual swings of his sword. c'mon.

No one has made a case as to why Yama won't shunpo behind them and vaporize their heads with a single punch.

He's more or less right though.

I lol'd when you claimed Gin is stronger than anyone in Naruto.

Madara blocked a kick from Tsunade with his forearm. No damage.

She's physically stronger than Yamamoto.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Indeed. FTG has far better feats. As does Mabui's move.

Yeah the Bijuu are weaker than city block busting.



Neat. Too bad Wonderweiss didn't turn into ash until after he released the fire.

Well no since Madara can absorb chakra. And Yamamoto's flames as far as this thread is concerned lol.

Did you not see at least 70% of his body fade away after yama jii's twin bones attaxk


Genjutsu is the only x factor in this fight and yamm's team could lose

had it not been for the Edo body, Tsunade would have merc'd Madara with attacks that don't even come close to measuring up to Yammy's strength.

Yama is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yammy.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He's more or less right though.

I lol'd when you claimed Gin is stronger than anyone in Naruto.

Madara blocked a kick from Tsunade with his forearm. No damage.

She's physically stronger than Yamamoto.

I dunno. Didn't Gin slice through half a city? Even at the start of the series we've seen Ichigo block that giant wailing on him with contemptuous ease, Bleach guys are pretty dang strong.

Originally posted by NemeBro
She's physically stronger than Yamamoto. k.

Yamamoto vs Madara can go either way.

Hashirama will get roasted to a crisp if he fights Yama, but he'd easily beat Chojiro.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tsunade is physically stronger than Yamamoto. No, she is only vice captain level

Tell me more about how vice captains can punch with the force of a nuclear bomb.

Originally posted by marwash22
Please explain how FTG is better than Shunpo in combat situations.


you know what i meant.




wut? Wonderweiss got his body crumbled by Yama's twin bone punch. there was no fire.

Simple: It has better feats. FTG is able to cross the hundreds of miles from Konoha to the site of the battle instantly. We're talking going across entire countries in an instant. And the users of FTG, more specifically Tobirama since he is who Madara has pummeled into the ground, have reacted to fast moving things like the Bijuu Bombs.

Case in point, this is the last person who teleported behind Madara(normal mode anyway) and he didn't fair so hot.

The collective Bijuu are stronger than Yamamoto. Not saying Madara could physically overpower Yamamoto but he could certainly take the punches.

His body is broken into a lot of tiny pieces but it isn't turned to ash until Wonderweiss himself exploded.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tell me more about how vice captains can punch with the force of a nuclear bomb.

Lolwut.

Originally posted by marwash22
lol.

What Naruto characters do with physical attacks, Bleach character do with shockwaves from indirect attacks.

Show me a character in Naruto completely tanking a blow from an opponent that casually knocks down buildings with it's hand.

Early series Kenny was cutting buildings in half from miles away with casual swings of his sword. c'mon.

No one has made a case as to why Yama won't shunpo behind them and vaporize their heads with a single punch.

1. You're high.

2. I can show you characters in Naruto tanking moon buster+ attacks. CASUALLY.

3. Early series Kenny cut a small building down that was right next to him. Not to mention that current Kenny's, and hands down the best feat in Bleach, is meteor level. Something Madara conjured two of with a gesture.

4. Yama won't do that because:
- Yama is nowhere near as fast as someone like Kakashi, who was able to cut lightning. Yama's best speed feat is getting beat up by Aizen, who's calced at mach 25.

- Yama, as well as everyone in all of Bleach, are so vastly weaker than Naruto characters, that mentioning it is redundant. Show me anyone in all of Bleach moon+ busting, then we'll talk. Better yet, show me anyone in all of Bleach doing more than meteor busting. Oh right. You can't. Because they can't.

Not to mention that Yama would have already been caught in genjutsu by the time he was able to take a step.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tell me more about how vice captains can punch with the force of a nuclear bomb.


Who in naruto punches with nuclear force

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Z8TUatpMo

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tell me more about how vice captains can punch with the force of a nuclear bomb. Neither can Tsunade.

Nuclear bombs can destroy a city. Which no one before Pain can (for which even he needs an energy blast)

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Neither can Tsunade.

Nuclear bombs can destroy a city. Which no one before Pain can (for which even he needs an energy blast) She can however shatter Madara's Susano'o with a single punch, which has town level durability. Meaning her fist contains the energy of a relatively weak nuke.

Originally posted by Trocity
I put him for the simple fact that generally Bleach is regarded as a stronger universe than Naruto, so I put the captain commander and his featless lieutenant against arguably the two strongest in Naruto.

You sell them short.

Naruto surpassed Bleach some time back.

Mind, these two aren't the two strongest. Naruto, Sasuke, Kaguya, and the Juubi-Jinchuuriki (which can include Madara but I don't think that's what was meant here. Juubi Jinchuuriki Madara simply absorbs the attack).


Originally posted by marwash22
no fire in Naruto is on Yama's level. Not even close.

Madara and Hashi are no immune to heat.

they die.


Perfect Susano'o. That blocks heat just fine, it blocks just about anything.



Might Gai was punching kilometers-deep holes in earth with his second strongest technique (and it's a rapid-fire technique). His third strongest made explosions larger than an island.

Sakura punches 50-meter across craters in the ground that take out giant monsters with proximity.

There's a lot of stuff beyond cutting buildings in half!


And, perfect susano'o. Cuts mountains in half.





Practically no one in manga, any manga, is a 'lightspeeder' because, one, they have countless feats showing them being hit or barely avoiding slower things, and two, defending against something fast does not require being as fast.

If a beam is headed at you from 100 feet, and you move your arm 1 foot to block it, your arm only has to go 1/100th as fast.


If you can sense something or get even the tiniest indication an attack's going to hit before it does, then that drops the required speed far further, dependent on how much warning. A normal human can block an actual laser if there's a little warning.

Pretty sure Gurren Lagann makes light look slow.

For an actual manga example, Sailor Moon certainly is faster than light.

I am not sure if Naruto passed Bleach like you surmise. A lot of the feats displayed are always misses which a seemingly alert, not dead person seems to always be able to avoid. I mean in all the fighting from obviously weaker characters only a very few main characters ever died. Through out Bleach there is a significant number of dead main characters who died to the abilities through attrition, being worn down and finished off by very powerful attacks that did not miss. Most attacks land in Bleach compared to the Naruto universe and the characters show their durability and reishi survivability by flinching or absorbing attacks. The later arcs of Bleach portray abilities far exceeding the destructive capabilities of previous feats which in the arcs it did show are city wide destructive. Through out the Arrancar arc every character present is able to destroy pillar structures with misses of their sword that exceed town/mountain sized levels of mass that reach into the sky. The Espada 5+ are incapable of increasing their abilities fully because they would destroy Huecho Mundo; a planet sized place. This is VERY clearly stated between Ichigo and Uliquarra during their final fight. Yamamoto was indeed surpassed by the time of his death by a few of the characters in attack power, but not experience which is his primary strength used in unison with absolute mastery of his ability. Madara and the 1st, regardless of what you say in terms of raw ability, when I think of this situation I think of pre-dead, are in their 30s? They fought against really only each-other in any real challenging way.

The feats of people in Naruto are also very limited. The attacks that you mention were all misses on their target as well as things they could do VERY few times which they state very clearly. The exhaustion of the characters of Naruto are made very clearly and repeatedly. A lot of this conjecture is based on the resurrection versions of Madara and the 1st but when we look at them alive they do not fight very long with each-other at all. And exhaustion is very clear. We have seen training bought in Bleach that last days in terms of continuous fighting.

^ So by your words alone you are kind of saying that most characters in Bleach are too slow to avoid stuff.Or their reflexes suck.

I mean from what I have read on Kenpachi (a guy everyone seems to love), he kind of just stands there.

Originally posted by socool8520
^ So by your words alone you are kind of saying that most characters in Bleach are too slow to avoid stuff.Or their reflexes suck.

No, they KNOW when they are capable of withstanding a hit and either through arrogance or power take it. The characters known for speed avoid everything. Kenpachi knows for example that almost nothing can cut him and often through taunting simply takes damage. Bleach is about resihi and physical power to withstand. If an insignificant feat is about to hit someone they don't even flinch. What I am saying is that in Naruto Universe, no one has the real durability to really stand their and take any attack. I mean they often avoid even shuriken attacks regardless of their level. Madara DIES to being stabbed by one.

Originally posted by socool8520
I mean from what I have read on Kenpachi (a guy everyone seems to love), he kind of just stands there.

He doesn't train to move because he is a berserker; the more damage he takes and closer to death he gets the more power he can release so it is in his best interest to make a fight harder. His strength is intimidation of his enemy by showing them they are powerless against his level of reishi. They cannot touch him and he can cut anything. His shikai release is literally the ability to cut anything.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
No, they KNOW when they are capable of withstanding a hit and either through arrogance or power take it. The characters known for speed avoid everything. Kenpachi knows for example that almost nothing can cut him and often through taunting simply takes damage. Bleach is about resihi and physical power to withstand. If an insignificant feat is about to hit someone they don't even flinch. What I am saying is that in Naruto Universe, no one has the real durability to really stand their and take any attack. I mean they often avoid even shuriken attacks regardless of their level. Madara DIES to being stabbed by one.

Jiraiya fought with his arm ripped off.
Tsunade tanked being stabbed in the chest on more than one occasion.
Zabuza early in the manga fought while being stabbed with numerous swords.
Hiruzen pulled off a techniques with a sword through his body. Orochimaru has been punched multiple times by Tsunade who crashed an outer village wall casually with no real effect.
A chopped his own hand off.

Just to name a few

Why stand their and take a hit when you can avoid all damage with speed and skill?

Originally posted by socool8520
Jiraiya fought with his arm ripped off.
Tsunade tanked being stabbed in the chest on more than one occasion.
Zabuza early in the manga fought while being stabbed with numerous swords.
Hiruzen pulled off a techniques with a sword through his body. Orochimaru has been punched multiple times by Tsunade who crashed an outer village wall casually with no real effect.
A chopped his own hand off.

Just to name a few

Why stand their and take a hit when you can avoid all damage with speed and skill?

Those are all like normal weapons through them and half those people died from those wounds O.o

I don't think you understand the premise of Bleach from the beginning. Kenpachi explains it VERY well to Ichigo in his first fight. If your spiritual energy is stronger than the other guys, nothing they do can even touch you; literally. There are definetly attacks that will do things if you are equal or the enemy has more spiritual pressure forced into their attack to break through your reishi shield and those are avoided. Ichigo's Bankai is a perfect example of avoiding damage from an equal opponent in the Byakuya fight. But when his enemies attacks are too weak to do anything he just smacks em away with his hand.

In the Naruto Universe if ANYTHING lands there is a possibility of damage inflicted unless it is shielded or their physical prowess is countered with ones own durability or a ninjitsu.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Those are all like normal weapons through them and half those people died from those wounds O.o

The point is they fought for a while longer even though they were heavily injured just like in Bleach. And several of the people in Bleach would have died if not for the intervening of other characters so what's your point?



Originally posted by RaventheOnly
I don't think you understand the premise of Bleach from the beginning. Kenpachi explains it VERY well to Ichigo in his first fight. If your spiritual energy is stronger than the other guys, nothing they do can even touch you; literally. There are definetly attacks that will do things if you are equal or the enemy has more spiritual pressure forced into their attack to break through your reishi shield and those are avoided. Ichigo's Bankai is a perfect example of avoiding damage from an equal opponent in the Byakuya fight. But when his enemies attacks are too weak to do anything he just smacks em away with his hand.

Kenpachi was injured by an attack from Ichigo when they first fought and it excited him I guess, but it was still damage. He was just to arrogant and stupid to move. And then they basically just kept unloading more power on each other until they collapsed iirc. It's a horrible way of fighting imo.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
In the Naruto Universe if ANYTHING lands there is a possibility of damage inflicted unless it is shielded or their physical prowess is countered with ones own durability or a ninjitsu.

Wait.....Isn't this exactly what you just explained above?

Originally posted by socool8520
The point is they fought for a while longer even though they were heavily injured just like in Bleach. And several of the people in Bleach would have died if not for the intervening of other characters so what's your point?





Kenpachi was injured by an attack from Ichigo when they first fought and it excited him I guess, but it was still damage. He was just to arrogant and stupid to move. And then they basically just kept unloading more power on each other until they collapsed iirc. It's a horrible way of fighting imo.



Wait.....Isn't this exactly what you just explained above?

My point is that simple random small things seem to finish off Naruto characters who didn't dodge or shielded another person when compared to things that kill the Bleach characters which are often serious full on strike blows they were not able to avoid or too tired to shield against. I am just trying to say that durability wise the Naruto Universe is more frail in this kind of fight when we versus them.

It took Ichigo to understand that he had to sharpen his Reishi to cut Kenpachi through willpower. It was a fight of willpower and determination. Ichigo could not escape Kenpachi no matter how fast he moved because Kenpachi's soul was too overpowering to run.

Yeah it is. The characters who can shrug off attacks like that are specifically capable of shrugging off those attacks while the vast majority of the characters are incapable of doing that. Madara and the 1st are durable because the 1st can regenerate and Madara has a shield. Yamamoto cannot be touched with his own shield of willpower and fire. We have never seen him use Kido and a lot of that can be used to heal also but we just don't know anything about his ability to use it. We only see him fight and show over all durability to not be touched. Madara has died to normal weak weapons and the 1st has died young it seems also. (black hair when he is resurrected) Yamamoto died to some one as experienced as him utilizing the power of hundreds of people (every quincy who dies gives Jauhbach power) to cut him clear in half after a battle with a person using the ability to mimic the power of the Jauhbach. SO Yamamoto to clarify was killed by a dude as badass as him after having fought and defeating that bad ass.

When did Madara die to normal weapons? I'm not sure what you are talking about. When they fought at the valley of the end, they had basically unleashed a ridiculous amount of techs on each other. Enough to change landscapes. And both people survived.

Originally posted by socool8520
When did Madara die to normal weapons? I'm not sure what you are talking about. When they fought at the valley of the end, they had basically unleashed a ridiculous amount of techs on each other. Enough to change landscapes. And both people survived.

Madara "dies" to the 1st Hokage stabbing him in the back if we go by the anime with a shurken and in the manga sword after some sort of fight we don't really see. (They have a ridiculous number of separate battles) The first eventually dies at some point young, but we don't see that fight; its just implied.

http://dailyanimeart.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/hashirama-stabs-madara.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/47635/2639823-yamamoto.png

He didn't die. have you read the interaction between madara and Obito? He lost sure and appeared dead kind of like every time Ichigo gets completely wrecked and is laying face first in the dirt. Madara was stabbed sure, after exhausting several techs that changed the landscape. This also happens in Bleach. Ichigo used all his strength and was defeated by a simple hand thrust from the no. 4 Espada for example.

To me it just seems like in Bleach these guys always have their shields (soul power) up when they know they are going into battle. They can be punctured just as easily when they don't.

Originally posted by socool8520
He didn't die. have you read the interaction between madara and Obito? He lost sure and appeared dead kind of like every time Ichigo gets completely wrecked and is laying face first in the dirt. Madara was stabbed sure, after exhausting several techs that changed the landscape. This also happens in Bleach. Ichigo used all his strength and was defeated by a simple hand thrust from the no. 4 Espada for example.

To me it just seems like in Bleach these guys always have their shields (soul power) up when they know they are going into battle. They can be punctured just as easily when they don't.

That's why die is in quotations

Ichigo's "death" was more of an execution rather than a fight ending. In Bleach the vast majority of deaths/loses are from overpowering attacks, not random weapons finally hitting mark in surprise.

They are always up because it is a part of them. I don't think very many of them have been brought down by any sort of weak attacks like a random weapon finally hitting. They are normally just overpowered finally with a finishing blow. Neji for example fell to some very random thing that normally would not pose a threat except that he for some reason decided to stand and take it rather than try to stop it.

What are you talking about. Ichigo got hand thrusted and pretty much "died". That's a normal attack. Rukia was impaled more than once iirc.

Nejii died to a chakra infused technique from Obito, easily one of the strongest characters in the manga making it no weak showing on his part. No strong character has died or taking much damage from any attack that wasn't chakra infused in a long time in the Naruto manga that I can remember.

His argument has merit though. Naruto characters often have low-end durability showings when it comes to weaponry. Hashirama attempted to kill himself with a kunai to his gut, Base Naruto got scratched by a kunai, Madara gets stabbed.

Of course, low-end & high-end feats and all that. Oonoki tanked two meteorites dropping on his face, Base Naruto's caught a sword in his palms, Tobi's blocked Suigetsu's attack with just his wrist, etc.

Yeah, it's true but Bleach characters have some of the same low end feats. I mean they take damage when punched in the face and things of that nature. If they didn't have their defenses up, they would be just as susceptible to damage imo. If characters can punch through each others body in Bleach, why would they not be able to do the same thing with a sword?

Originally posted by socool8520
What are you talking about. Ichigo got hand thrusted and pretty much "died". That's a normal attack. Rukia was impaled more than once iirc.

Nejii died to a chakra infused technique from Obito, easily one of the strongest characters in the manga making it no weak showing on his part. No strong character has died or taking much damage from any attack that wasn't chakra infused in a long time in the Naruto manga that I can remember.

Ulquiorra literally kills Ichigo twice. The both times so overpoweringly it was an execution.

Neiji dies to AoE It was an area effect attack, not even a direct shot, that killed him.

Originally posted by NemeBro
She can however shatter Madara's Susano'o with a single punch, which has town level durability. Meaning her fist contains the energy of a relatively weak nuke. She barely cracked it. That's something even a vice captain like Renji can do with his bankai.

Besides, her speed isn't even that impressive, neither does she have flight to keep up with Bleach characters

Originally posted by NemeBro
Pretty sure Gurren Lagann makes light look slow.

Well, yes, at the big scales. Gotta be if you throw galaxies ^^

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
She barely cracked it. That's something even a vice captain like Renji can do with his bankai.

Besides, her speed isn't even that impressive, neither does she have flight to keep up with Bleach characters

*sigh*

When will you learn?

Tsunade almost shattered it before he went fully perfect Susano'o. That, btw, was above a town level feat, considering Madara's partial Susano'o tanked two meteors. Renji can't perform a Kenny level meteor feat. Kenny can't perform a Madara level double meteor feat. It's that simple. Your logic is flawed.

Tsunade's speed is comparable to Raikage's. She was able to keep up with him. Who is faster than the fastest Bleach character that exists so far. Ichigo. Not to mention that full power Madara and Hashirma can throw around and react to/dodge attacks that cross oceans and travel to different continents in a single panel.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
*sigh*

When will you learn?

Tsunade almost shattered it before he went fully perfect Susano'o. That, btw, was above a town level feat, considering Madara's partial Susano'o tanked two meteors. Renji can't perform a Kenny level meteor feat. Kenny can't perform a Madara level double meteor feat. It's that simple. Your logic is flawed.

Tsunade's speed is comparable to Raikage's. She was able to keep up with him. Who is faster than the fastest Bleach character that exists so far. Ichigo. Not to mention that full power Madara and Hashirma can throw around and react to/dodge attacks that cross oceans and travel to different continents in a single panel.


I agree that Renji is not a strong character at all but after he went to the spirit palace we don't know what happened. RUkika and Renji claim to no longer be the same and they appear to have way more power than normal.

YOu can't really comapre speed I would say because Ichigo was literally blocking thousands of attacks from Bayakuya in his very early bankai and since most characters have shown in some cases to be just as fast. Naruto characters often have trouble bloakcing more than 3 things at a time. If they could move that fast why did it take them like 3 chapters to reach the front THey don't move that fast, they had to use a teleport to send raikage and tsunade.

you're a better man than me. I lost the will the argue this when the claim was made that Naruto characters are lightspeed. lulz, it took Naruto and Bee (two of the fastest characters in the series) a ridiculously long time to run a few thousand miles.

Yoruichi literally covers miles in one step. hilarious.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
*sigh*

When will you learn?

Tsunade almost shattered it before he went fully perfect Susano'o. That, btw, was above a town level feat, considering Madara's partial Susano'o tanked two meteors. Renji can't perform a Kenny level meteor feat. Kenny can't perform a Madara level double meteor feat. It's that simple. Your logic is flawed.

Tsunade's speed is comparable to Raikage's. She was able to keep up with him. Who is faster than the fastest Bleach character that exists so far. Ichigo. Not to mention that full power Madara and Hashirma can throw around and react to/dodge attacks that cross oceans and travel to different continents in a single panel.


Madara didnt tank any meteors if he wasnt edo at the time he wouldve died too

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Tsunade almost shattered it before he went fully perfect Susano'o. That, btw, was above a town level feat, considering Madara's partial Susano'o tanked two meteors. Renji can't perform a Kenny level meteor feat. Kenny can't perform a Madara level double meteor feat. It's that simple. Your logic is flawed.Madara's susanoo never tanked any meteor because Onoki already made it light with his hax and blocked it.

Do you even have an idea what you're talking about?

......

You make up so much bullshit....Can you show a single scan to back this up?

Originally posted by marwash22
you're a better man than me. I lost the will the argue this when the claim was made that Naruto characters are lightspeed. lulz, it took Naruto and Bee (two of the fastest characters in the series) a ridiculously long time to run a few thousand miles.

Yoruichi literally covers miles in one step. hilarious. Once he also said Inuyasha characters are light speed, lmfao

Don't take anything he says seriously unless he shows scans or some canon evidence

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Once he also said Inuyasha characters are light speed, lmfao

Don't take anything he says seriously unless he shows scans or some canon evidence


He has also has said that the vizards are stronger than yamamoto
And that hisagi is as strong as hitsuguya

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
She barely cracked it. That's something even a vice captain like Renji can do with his bankai.

Besides, her speed isn't even that impressive, neither does she have flight to keep up with Bleach characters

http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-629-page-19.html

Madara's Susano'o withstood this. It didn't withstand Tsunade so well.

I don't give a **** about her speed, this is simply about Madara's durability, both with and without Susano'o.

That was an AoE which in terms of durability isn't as destructive as a concentrated attack. Like all of the people surrounded by Narutos Kamui Chakra survived that which is by no means an amazing amount of power spread out.

^ Uh...considering what actually happened on panel that would be a plus for Naruto's chakra cloak.

But that doesn't matter Madara's Perfect Susanoo took a mountain buster point blank and Hashirama is able to block a mountain busting attack. Still don't know how this wasn't recognized as spite in favor of the Naruto team. Two heavy hitters against a completely featless dude and a guy who can't dish out the power quick enough.

Originally posted by NemeBro
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-629-page-19.html

Madara's Susano'o withstood this. It didn't withstand Tsunade so well.That's a large AoE attack. And many fodders also survived that.


Without any impressive speed feats, she's just vice captain level.

Originally posted by Blazing Storm

Without any impressive speed feats, she's just vice captain level.

Heh. Vice Captains are pretty fragile things in comparison to Tsunade (remember when Ichigo one-shotted three of them with just bare hand?). She's got more versatility and power too.

Originally posted by Q99
Heh. Vice Captains are pretty fragile things in comparison to Tsunade (remember when Ichigo one-shotted three of them with just bare hand?). She's got more versatility and power too.


And the boobs n'stuf. Matsutitto is the only one that can compare to Titsnade.

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Madara's susanoo never tanked any meteor because Onoki already made it light with his hax and blocked it.

Do you even have an idea what you're talking about?

......

You make up so much bullshit....Can you show a single scan to back this up?

1. You haven't read the series clearly, so don't say anything about making shit up.

http://i22.mangapanda.com/naruto/561/naruto-2752551.jpg

Onoki made the FIRST meteor lighter. Not the second one, which is still a meteor+ feat, which is above any demonstration in all of Bleach. Something Tsunade was able to contend with.

http://i30.mangapanda.com/naruto/561/naruto-2752553.jpg

2. Prove what? That Tsunade is comparable to Raikage?

http://i29.mangapanda.com/naruto/577/naruto-3122071.jpg

All the proof I need is right here. Madara compared the two, going as far as admitting her to be stronger, but slower than Raikage. She still saved the Raikage on multiple occasions in their fight though. Either way, Raikage, and therefor Tsunade, have/has feats that SHIT on anything shown in Bleach so far.

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
That's a large AoE attack. And many fodders also survived that.


Without any impressive speed feats, she's just vice captain level.

And? Those fodders survived because of Naruto's chakra. Tsunade did so on her lonesome. Not to mention that the attack was VASTLY more impressive than anything shown in all of Bleach, and even Naruto at that point. It literally leveled that entire country. And almost destroyed an army of characters lieutenant level+.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
And? Those fodders survived because of Naruto's chakra. Tsunade did so on her lonesome. Not to mention that the attack was VASTLY more impressive than anything shown in all of Bleach, and even Naruto at that point. It literally leveled that entire country. And almost destroyed an army of characters lieutenant level+.


Ehhh >.> You do know that Soi Fon's Bankai is LITERALLY a tactical nuke right? >.>

http://www.bleachdatabase.com/images/db/2010/06/753.jpg?1277212079


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/4635269/soi-fon-bankai-o.gif

4WX8J3uAk-8

And Kenpachi LITERALLY cut a meteor much larger than that size with one slice of his sword with NO effort at all >.> And that meteor was not the size of a country. It was like a town size as you can still see people standing under it. If it were a country you could not see people at all >.>

http://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2014/04/16/10-11_1NdaeY.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112598/3761793-0390000479-16.pn.png

http://greekorio.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/zaraki-schikai.png

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Ehhh >.> You do know that Soi Fon's Bankai is LITERALLY a tactical nuke right? >.>

http://www.bleachdatabase.com/images/db/2010/06/753.jpg?1277212079


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/4635269/soi-fon-bankai-o.gif

4WX8J3uAk-8

And Kenpachi LITERALLY cut a meteor much larger than that size with one slice of his sword with NO effort at all >.> And that meteor was not the size of a country. It was like a town size as you can still see people standing under it. If it were a country you could not see people at all >.>

http://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2014/04/16/10-11_1NdaeY.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112598/3761793-0390000479-16.pn.png

http://greekorio.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/zaraki-schikai.png

Uh, what? Soi Fon's bankai didn't blow up Karakura town. Or even damage it that much.

Uh, okay, then given those scans, I can prove that 1. The sereitei is town sized, as you can see Sokyoku hill being roughly a quarter the size of the barrier, meaning that the barrier, which is much larger than Seireitei itsef, is still only around large city sized, and 2. That Kenpachi being visible comparatively to the meteor proves that.

What? You saw people from miles away, not from close up. You should be able to tell, what with an entire set of forests AND a mountain range separating them from the battlefield itself.

http://i26.mangapanda.com/naruto/561/naruto-2752549.jpg

And as you can see, the meteor LITERALLY covered the entire sky, from the POV of an entire ARMY. Not to mention that it made mountain ranges look like ants.

http://i22.mangapanda.com/naruto/560/naruto-2733411.jpg

Oh, and not to mention, that they felt the collision from SEVERAL COUNTRIES AWAY, ENOUGH TO SHAKE THE BUILDING.

http://i22.mangapanda.com/naruto/561/naruto-2752555.jpg

Not to mention that Tsunade broke through Madara's Susano'o, which WITHSTOOD that country level meteor.

Again, NO ONE IN ALL OF BLEACH, has feats that contend with that low-tier casual feat from Madara, someone who was even outclassed by weaklings like Sakura and Kakashi.

It did destroy a good amount of the town, it was a fake Karakura. I also said it was a tactical which is smaller


But she couldn't do that more than once >.> Kenpachi did it for fun >.> and yes there is a person visible attempting to hold it up and you can see the curvature of the rock bending enough that that is the edge

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
It did destroy a good amount of the town, it was a fake Karakura. I also said it was a tactical which is smaller


But she couldn't do that more than once >.> Kenpachi did it for fun >.> and yes there is a person visible attempting to hold it up and you can see the curvature of the rock bending enough that that is the edge

No it didn't. It didn't even affect the other captains. And tactical nukes are still mean for blowing up massive areas, like entire towns and cities.

Uh, he did it so he and everyone else didn't die. Not, "for fun". lol.

Um, you can see the curvature only because of the view you're given. You can also see the mountain range in full view. Are you saying that's not really a mountain range too? Just like you could see the entire meteor from just Kenny's POV.

http://i40.mangapanda.com/bleach/577/bleach-4907051.jpg

Going by that logic, you're either saying Kenny is bigger than the empire state building, or the meteor is smaller than it. Pixel scaling doesn't work that way, pal.

Soi-fon's Bankai is not a nuke.

Really I'm not sure what the argument here is. If PIS is off, Madara's Perfect Susano'o utterly eclipses Yamamoto's Bankai. Heat be damned, the Susano'o has flat out better feats. This is a point that can't be argued lol.

Taking the PIS out, Yamamoto tends to simply spam his much less powerful Shikai as he dismisses his opponents as brats. Even Aizen was not worth the Bankai in his eyes. Usually a good strategy but if the Kenpachi vs Kisame thread, made by the same OP, shows anything it is that chakra absorption works as Reiatsu absorption, meaning Madara can render the flames a non-issue. Straight up physical attacks aren't going to do much to Madara's Susano'o. The majority of Yamamoto's moveset is simply shut down by the moves Madara uses when he toys with people(and when he literally has no eyes). Yamamoto is stronger but Madara handled attacks from A and Tsunade just fine, to say nothing of the Bijuu attack he withstood. Flash step usually means Bleach characters are faster but the Flying Thunder God has better showings and the Bijuu bomb was calced to move at ludicrous speeds. There is nothing Yamamoto has that Madara does not have an answer in response.

And even if Yamamoto is slightly more powerful than Madara(and I don't think he is), Chojiro is such a non-factor in this fight that it is basically a two on one between the Shinobi and Yamamoto. He has no feats to his name except dying and losing to a Zanpakuto-less Ichigo.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. You haven't read the series clearly, so don't say anything about making shit up.

http://i22.mangapanda.com/naruto/561/naruto-2752551.jpg

Onoki made the FIRST meteor lighter. Not the second one, which is still a meteor+ featNo it isn't.

The second meteor only hit the first meteor, not Onoki directly so the impact was greatly reduced. Not to mention, the second meteor was not even powerful enough to shatter the lighter rock below it.

And its you who kept making shit up, saying Madara's susanoo tanked the meteor...which clearly implies you are the one who didnt read the series

Do you realise that meteors can widely vary in size? Gremmy's meteor is hundreds of times larger than Madara's in terms of volume as it was half the size of Seireitei while Madara's was only a few times taller than the trees around

http://narutobase.net/manga/mangas/Naruto/561%20-%20The%20Power%20in%20a%20Name/04-05.png

Seireitei is over 100 km in length, while Madara's meteor was only about 1km in diameter


No, prove that Madara's incomplete Susanoo was hit by the meteor as you claimed. Don't try changing the topic kiddo



They are only low tiers in Bleach

Try again

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
And? Those fodders survived because of Naruto's chakra. Tsunade did so on her lonesome. Not to mention that the attack was VASTLY more impressive than anything shown in all of Bleach, and even Naruto at that point. It literally leveled that entire country. And almost destroyed an army of characters lieutenant level+. She didn't tank the full force of the blast. The blast's impact was obviously divided between the hundreds of people who tanked it

And don't tell me that you think fodders with Naruto's chakra are as strong as teh Juubi and can tank its blasts

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
That's a large AoE attack. And many fodders also survived that.

With the help of Naruto's chakra my dumb friend.



She's physically stronger than any vice captain and also Yamamoto.

Learn to read dumbass.

Originally posted by NemeBro
With the help of Naruto's chakra my dumb friend.So RM Naruto's chakra makes fodders as strong as the Juubi?

Stop bullshitting and get to the point


Prove it instead of typing the same bullcrap over and over

concession accepted

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
So RM Naruto's chakra makes fodders as strong as the Juubi?

Stop bullshitting and get to the point

No one except for your dumb ass said that though.

Don't accuse others of being as stupid as you.



No, I've already provided strength feats for Tsunade. Show me any lieutenant or even captain strength feats on par with hers my dumbass friend.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No one except for your dumb ass said that though.

Don't accuse others of being as stupid as you.Except that you implied it by saying fodders with Naruto's chakra are strong enough to tank Juubi's balsts.

Stop contradicting yourself or gtfo


Captains? Even the weakest captains like Komamura can toss a guy like this who weighs over a thousand tons
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090520101040/bleach/en/images/8/83/Powwsrelease.jpg

I don't even need to get to H2 Ichigo crushing a country level Lanza with his palm or Kenpachi with no bankai, patch on and using only one hand, busting a country sized meteor moving at hypersonic speeds

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Except that you implied it by saying fodders with Naruto's chakra are strong enough to tank Juubi's balsts.

Stop contradicting yourself or gtfo

They are.

That doesn't make them as strong as the Juubi, especially when said attack, despite its power, isn't nearly its most powerful attack.



Komamura is one of the physically strongest captains (Only confirmed weaker than Kenpachi and possibly weaker than the top tiers), that he overall sucks means nothing.

Tsunade punches harder than the Raikage, who could match V1 Bee (The same one who turns cliffsides into rubble with a lariat). Much harder, considering A needed Onoki's help to replicate her feat.

The Lanza isn't a country buster, and it didn't explode when he grabbed it. He wasn't subject to its power. That meteor wasn't anywhere near the size of a country.

Soi Fon's bankai is confirmed as one of the destructive of all the Bankai. It destroys anything caught in it that lives. It was just used against a guy that could not be touched pretty much.

Kenpachi beats Komamura and Tosen at the same time so that strength threshold is WAY overwhelming >.> Half the higher tier captains are more powerful then Kenpachi at that time so Yamamoto at that moment must be beyond powerful.

She is Physically stronger that the Raikage sure. It is also shown she has a SERIOUS amount of limitation on her ability to do that very long. She is literally using up her life force to fight like that.

Neither of the meteors noted in Naruto or Bleach are as big as they are being made out to be. I am only judging by how immense the soul society is versus the size of the meteor being displayed versus the size of the one on the battlefield portrayed in Naruto. The Bleach one is visibly larger honestly. A meteors power is the speed it is travelling at also. The one from Naruto is literally just falling out of the sky while the one in bleach is hurtling in because it was made by IMAGINATION! The guy he is fighting literally just sent Kenpachi into a bubble where he experienced being in space and having his organs smashed, comes out of it and is like HELL YES I GET TO CUT A METEOR! For fun >.> He doesn't give a crap about everyone dying lol

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Soi-fon's Bankai is not a nuke.

Really I'm not sure what the argument here is. If PIS is off, Madara's Perfect Susano'o utterly eclipses Yamamoto's Bankai. Heat be damned, the Susano'o has flat out better feats. This is a point that can't be argued lol.

Taking the PIS out, Yamamoto tends to simply spam his much less powerful Shikai as he dismisses his opponents as brats. Even Aizen was not worth the Bankai in his eyes. Usually a good strategy but if the Kenpachi vs Kisame thread, made by the same OP, shows anything it is that chakra absorption works as Reiatsu absorption, meaning Madara can render the flames a non-issue. Straight up physical attacks aren't going to do much to Madara's Susano'o. The majority of Yamamoto's moveset is simply shut down by the moves Madara uses when he toys with people(and when he literally has no eyes). Yamamoto is stronger but Madara handled attacks from A and Tsunade just fine, to say nothing of the Bijuu attack he withstood. Flash step usually means Bleach characters are faster but the Flying Thunder God has better showings and the Bijuu bomb was calced to move at ludicrous speeds. There is nothing Yamamoto has that Madara does not have an answer in response.

And even if Yamamoto is slightly more powerful than Madara(and I don't think he is), Chojiro is such a non-factor in this fight that it is basically a two on one between the Shinobi and Yamamoto. He has no feats to his name except dying and losing to a Zanpakuto-less Ichigo.

It wasn't really heat we are arguing. His Bankai uses "heat" as a reference. He states that it renders all existence void when it touches things. His true Bankai's ability we find out when he really releases it is to raise all the dead he has vanquished as zombies and anything they touch disintegrates.

Madara has a great shield but I just don't see how he actually attacks Yamamoto. He just tosses really low level stuff that I can see being destroyed by pretty much everything Yamamoto can do with no real effort. You guys talk about Madara but in my opinion it is the 1st who is more powerful in this situation. He can actually attack. Madara always just hides behind his shield and lawls at idiots but never really definitively does killing blows. He just does big AoE and shock and awe meteor crap that would be totally ineffective considering how physically strong and tough Yamamoto is. If he ever gets his sussano brought down he is done in seconds.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
It wasn't really heat we are arguing. His Bankai uses "heat" as a reference. He states that it renders all existence void when it touches things.

Besides destroying a bit of Soul Society his Bankai didn't do that much. And for rendering all existence void sounds nice but the one guy hit by the technique just lost his torso and one arm. He didn't even die out right lol.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
His true Bankai's ability we find out when he really releases it is to raise all the dead he has vanquished as zombies and anything they touch disintegrates.

They do not considering a guy punched the shit out of them and didn't disintegrate.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Madara has a great shield but I just don't see how he actually attacks Yamamoto.

Probably Susano'o swords.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
He just tosses really low level stuff that I can see being destroyed by pretty much everything Yamamoto can do with no real effort.

Mokuton yeah Yamamoto could probably handle but the meteors would pose problems. And Perfect Susano'o would just flat out win the fight.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
You guys talk about Madara but in my opinion it is the 1st who is more powerful in this situation. He can actually attack.

Well yeah the 1st can do a lot too. Which is why this isn't really a fair fight since Chojiro is useless while Hashirama is even stronger than the guy who could probably beat Yamamoto by himself.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Madara always just hides behind his shield and lawls at idiots but never really definitively does killing blows.

Sasuke and the 5 Kage would disagree. As would the majority of the 4th Division of the Shinobi Alliance.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
He just does big AoE and shock and awe meteor crap that would be totally ineffective considering how physically strong and tough Yamamoto is.

Yamamoto could probably survive a meteor but he's not chopping them in half since his Zanpakuto lacks destructive feats and he definitely lacks sufficient strength showings.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
If he ever gets his sussano brought down he is done in seconds.

Not likely since he can absorb fire and take a hit pretty well.

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
No it isn't.

The second meteor only hit the first meteor, not Onoki directly so the impact was greatly reduced. Not to mention, the second meteor was not even powerful enough to shatter the lighter rock below it.

And its you who kept making shit up, saying Madara's susanoo tanked the meteor...which clearly implies you are the one who didnt read the series

Do you realise that meteors can widely vary in size? Gremmy's meteor is hundreds of times larger than Madara's in terms of volume as it was half the size of Seireitei while Madara's was only a few times taller than the trees around

http://narutobase.net/manga/mangas/Naruto/561%20-%20The%20Power%20in%20a%20Name/04-05.png

Seireitei is over 100 km in length, while Madara's meteor was only about 1km in diameter


No, prove that Madara's incomplete Susanoo was hit by the meteor as you claimed. Don't try changing the topic kiddo



They are only low tiers in Bleach

Try again

Yes, it clearly is.

Really? It looks a lot like it broke the second meteor. I honestly, at this point, think you're reading a completely different series, because everything you're saying in a pitiful attempt to discount my facts, is completely false.

http://i38.mangapanda.com/naruto/561/naruto-2752557.jpg

Um, Madara didn't tank that specific meteor because he didn't have to. Stated by himself.

http://i26.mangapanda.com/naruto/561/naruto-2752549.jpg

Not to mention that Uncle rubber was able to use rubber to tank it. Even Raikage was able to break through it, proving feats above that to be superior to the double meteor, which puts Uncle rubber's durability above any Bleach character, just fyi.

PFFFFFFFTT, Really?

http://i40.mangapanda.com/bleach/577/bleach-4907051.jpg

THIS meteor was "hundreds of times larger than Madara's? How much crack to you smoke before you post on here? It wasn't even that big compared to Kenny alone. Btw, Sokyoku hill alone is about 1/4th as tall as the barrier itself. Since you want to pixel scale like that, I can go and make a calc putting the Seireitei at Karakura town sized. Which it's not much bigger than.

A few times taller than the tree's? You're literally talking about the POV of people separated from the meteor's by a forest, and a MOUNTAIN RANGE. The meteor's collision was felt from COUNTRIES AWAY, to the point where buildings shook in other villages.

You're basing Seireitei's size on what, ONE vague statement? I can show proof, like I have been, of several SCANS, proving it to be town sized. Around as big as the damn Leaf village.

I don't have to. The only one changing the subject is you, by trying to avoid the fact that Raikage level characters can destroy Uncle rubbers creations, but can't even CRACK Madara's partial Susano'o. He needed Tsukikage to augment his strength, and make him lighter, AND STILL COULDN'T DO WHAT TSUNADE COULD ON HER OWN.

Low tiers? Based on WHAT? You have yet to show a SINGLE feat that doesn't rely SOLELY on the premise that ONE statement that Yoroichi made early in the series is COMPLETELY accurate. Not to mention that it can be deciphered MANY different ways, and is in no way, shape or form definitive. Yama couldn't get through Uncle Rubber's shields for gods sake, lol.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yes, it clearly is.

Really? It looks a lot like it broke the second meteor. I honestly, at this point, think you're reading a completely different series, because everything you're saying in a pitiful attempt to discount my facts, is completely false.

http://i38.mangapanda.com/naruto/561/naruto-2752557.jpgThe first meteor is still there below it and isn't completely destroyed. Though it was extremely lightened.

Besides, as I said Onoki didnt tank its full force as it was an indirect hit, not a direct one. So its not a meteor level feat at all.

Then that just contradicts your previous claim of "That, btw, was above a town level feat, considering Madara's partial Susano'o tanked two meteors."

So please have an idea about what you're talking


That's because Kenny is in font of the meteor and the meteor is BEHIND him, duh.

By your logic, the moon is not that big as its comparable to the palm of my hand.



No it isn't. Sokyoku hill reaches the clouds, which are like 2 miles high.
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130821034017/betterbleachfanfiction/images/thumb/9/9f/SoukyokuManga.png/300px-SoukyokuManga.png

So its almost as tall as the Juubi tree, which also just rises above the clouds: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130920204541/naruto/es/images/0/09/Forma_Total_de_Shinju.png



Besides, Ive already posted a scan of Seiretiei having mountain ranges which are not even visible from its full view. So small country sized Seireitei makes sense.


Shaking =/= busting.

And yes, its just a few times taller than the trees as it can be seen here: http://narutobase.net/manga/mangas/Naruto/561%20-%20The%20Power%20in%20a%20Name/04-05.png

Its just about 1 mile in diameter, while Gremmy's is atleast large city and likely small country sized (100+ miles).

Pixel scaling doesn't work as Kubo is sometimes bad with his drawings.

I've shown multiple proofs to show Seireitei's size:
1. It has mountain ranges in it
2. It takes 10 days to walk from one gate to another
3. Its stated to have 12 districts, with over 12000 regions. An average district in japan is abuot the size of a large city, so the entire Seireitei being small country sized makes sense

Who said yama can't break through uncle rubber's shields? They are two completely different series.

Besides, H2 Ichigo already crushed a country level Lanza with his bare hands, so it means a mid-high tier in Bleach has country level physical strength.

So town level Tsunade or Raikage is just a low tier in Bleach. Even if her strength is higher than low tiers, her speed and durability is shit and she doesn't even have flight

Originally posted by NemeBro
They are.

That doesn't make them as strong as the Juubi, especially when said attack, despite its power, isn't nearly its most powerful attack.The force was still divided between them.

If 100 people tank a city level attack, then the net force which each one individually tanked is only 1/100th of it.


Komamura did that in base form (no shikai or bankai). Shikai Ichigo could match patched Kenpachi's strikes, who could easily block Komamura's shikai and shikai Ichi is only low-captain level in strength.

Infact Base Grimmjow could block shikai ichigo with only his mini finger.

Breaking a few large rocks isn't that impressive. A low tier like Base Renji can do something mroe than that with a casual backhand.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/32169/701064-capture_super.jpg

Las Noches takes 3 days to walk and Ichgo and his friends didnt get any closer despite walking towards it for hours. So its indeed country sized. And h2 Ichigo absorbed all of Lanza's impact with his hand, so it didnt explode that widely.

Seireitei is as big as Las Noches, possibly bigger, so that makes Gremmy's meteor half the size of a country. Even a city sized meteor can lifewipe the dinosaurs and leave a country level crater, so a small country sized meteor should be continent+.

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
The force was still divided between them.

If 100 people tank a city level attack, then the net force which each one individually tanked is only 1/100th of it.


Komamura did that in base form (no shikai or bankai). Shikai Ichigo could match patched Kenpachi's strikes, who could easily block Komamura's shikai and shikai Ichi is only low-captain level in strength.

Infact Base Grimmjow could block shikai ichigo with only his mini finger.

Breaking a few large rocks isn't that impressive. A low tier like Base Renji can do something mroe than that with a casual backhand.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/32169/701064-capture_super.jpg

Las Noches takes 3 days to walk and Ichgo and his friends didnt get any closer despite walking towards it for hours. So its indeed country sized. And h2 Ichigo absorbed all of Lanza's impact with his hand, so it didnt explode that widely.

Seireitei is as big as Las Noches, possibly bigger, so that makes Gremmy's meteor half the size of a country. Even a city sized meteor can lifewipe the dinosaurs and leave a country level crater, so a small country sized meteor should be continent+.

What? Are you retarded? Force doesn't work like that. They all tanked a city level attack. You can throw infinite people at once into the sun, but they will all be vaporized instantly, no matter how many people you throw into it.

Uh, when did Grimmjow do that?

http://i9.mangapanda.com/naruto/170/naruto-3353.jpg

Tsunade was strong enough to lift a BUILDING sized SOLID steel sword, and jam it through the head of a mountain level tanker on par with Biju. She flicks through Renji's head.

You're taking that entire scale based off of ONE statement, which I can prove(again, as I have many times to you) to be retarded. I can give you a scan right now proving that to be wrong. The senkaimon, which COVERS Seireitei, is only about 4 times taller than Sokyoku hill. A HILL. That makes it as tall as a mid sized mountain. Making Seireitei town sized. Not to mention, that LN is also comparable in size to hills. Dunes, in fact. Making LN even smaller.

Yes, a small country sized meteor would be that strong, but Gremmy's is HALF as big as a mountain, so it's nowhere even close to a hundredth of that. It's town level. Like all other super high-tiers in Bleach.

vvphw2-g3jQ

If you haven't heard or seen the fights we are talking about why are you arguing that we are crazy or something O.o

---

A meteor the size of a basketball has the power to wipe out a city block.... so a meteor the size of a bus could wipe out a city.

jqcfVrtFsDY

So like those tower things they are casually destroying are town wide skyscrapers that reach into the atmosphere >.> Thats why the Arcannar above 6 are not allowed to fight in Huecho Mundo because their power would destroy the place. Huecho Mundo is big enough to house as many souls of hollows that equally replace the population of the EARTH and Soul Society. That is a BASIC premise of the whole story about BLEACH. That is why the Quincy got wiped out and why they are pissed when they attack now. THe soul reapers wouldn't let the Quincies kill all the hollows because it would destroy the world because there has to be balance between the populations.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
vvphw2-g3jQ

If you haven't heard or seen the fights we are talking about why are you arguing that we are crazy or something O.o

---

A meteor the size of a basketball has the power to wipe out a city block.... so a meteor the size of a bus could wipe out a city.

jqcfVrtFsDY

So like those tower things they are casually destroying are town wide skyscrapers that reach into the atmosphere >.> Thats why the Arcannar above 6 are not allowed to fight in Huecho Mundo because their power would destroy the place. Huecho Mundo is big enough to house as many souls of hollows that equally replace the population of the EARTH and Soul Society. That is a BASIC premise of the whole story about BLEACH. That is why the Quincy got wiped out and why they are pissed when they attack now. THe soul reapers wouldn't let the Quincies kill all the hollows because it would destroy the world because there has to be balance between the populations.

Not crazy, just retarded. Possibly because you watch too much Bleach.

Either way, I watched the entire scenes again, and yeah, not once did Grimmjow block Ichigo's sword with a finger. Either way though, what you're still insinuating is that the Byakuya is weaker than Grimmjow, which simply isn't true. Again, the entire series is PIS. Byakuya gets jacked by Zommari, but beats him, then goes on to dominate Yammy in both of his ressurection forms in the same day, with only Kenny's equivalent help? That's suggesting that Zommari is stronger than Stark. And in that respect, makes Grimmjow the second strongest espada, aside from Ulquiorra.

You're wrong.

Um, what? I don't know what you're smoking, but there is no such thing as a basketball sized meteor. Even if there was, it would make no kind of impact capable of destroying more than a little car, or something. A bus sized meteor wouldn't make anywhere near that large of an impact either. Read a book.

However, it makes no sense for you to point those falsities out in the first place. Neither Madara's, not Gremmy's meteors were moving as fast as natural ones. Madara's has feats though vastly more impressive, while Gremmy's is accurately calced to around mid-mountain sized.

*sigh* You Bleach-tards must have a competition going, huh? Are you trying to be the dumbest person on this site? Those pillars aren't much wider than Ichigo and Grimmjow themselves, genius. Not to mention all of LN isn't much larger than a mountain itself.

HM is supposed to be an endless expanse. SS is not even comparable in size. Not to mention Sokyoku hill, which is A HILL, is roughly a quarter to a third as tall as the freakin' senkaimon, which is larger than the entire seireitei collectively.

What, are you trying to say that the meteor was half the size of the soul society itself? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL , you know what, the worst part is that with the incoherent dribble you two were spewing, I can see that that WAS your argument here. You're just... wow, lol. The SS is incomparably larger than the Seireitei. The seireitei is were the shinigami live. The SS SURROUNDS it, and isn't covered by the senkaimon.