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Rules:
- Canon Material only
- random encounter
- no morals
- both sides start 80 ft away

Fights on MT. Olympus


Round 1:
- standard weapons
- no Avatar State

Round 2:
- All weapons
- Avatar State

Round 3:
- Both sides are at their prime


Who wins?

Airbend him into midair then drain the breath from his lungs.

Or drain all the moisture from his body.

Or he kills them all before they all process the thoughts to do anything.

Avatar characters are lightning-timers. tehe

Kratos is a much faster lightning-timer though.

Arguably reaching lightspeed, considering Zeus' disciples or whatever are apparently that fast.

Yeah that's what I thought, just shut up and let the adults talk you ****ing catamite.

Kratos can solo the Avatarverse

The fact that alot of the Avatarverse are glass cannons and Kratos outclasses them in DC does them no favors

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah that's what I thought, just shut up and let the adults talk you ****ing catamite.

Then talk. Start by deeply elaborating on this eleged "light speed".

Sure, from what I remember, he can hang here (I don't know who would win), but light speed is f**king pushing it. haermm

ok, kratos beat avatars. now check this link http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/kratos-vs-50-avatars-a-tla.305583/

>Spacebattles

bwahahahaha. you srs m8?

spacebattles sucks lol

Indeed they do

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Then talk. Start by deeply elaborating on this eleged "light speed".

Sure, from what I remember, he can hang here (I don't know who would win), but light speed is f**king pushing it. haermm

Patrons/champions of Zeus have an ability to dash around at lightspeed with a special item, and I believe the devs have confirmed that Zeus has at the very least the same lightspeed movement as well since those champions have their abilities granted to them by Zeus, and are obviously vastly inferior.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Patrons/champions of Zeus have an ability to dash around at lightspeed with a special item, and I believe the devs have confirmed that Zeus has at the very least the same lightspeed movement as well since those champions have their abilities granted to them by Zeus, and are obviously vastly inferior.

I hear this same thing in God of War threads all the time. When someone claims "developer confirmation", it sounds more like "spoonfeeding us what we want to hear (instead of making a better game)" or "I'm making this up to get my way." It seems like nothing more than a petty means of trying to win an arguement. It must be easy backing Zeus for lightspeed after twice having the shit beat out of him by Kratos. No disrespect to you, but my experience with the worse half of the fanbase requires me to be skeptical.

As much as I'd like to believe you, I can't help but feel that even if they did so happen to say that themselves, it simply reeks hard of fanservice rather than being something they actually wanted to do. Akira Toriyama has an entire logbook of statements on DBZ characters, yet people still find a problem with this, and these are some of the same people.

Overall, "devs confirmed (insert absurd requirement for total suspension of disbelief here)" =/= definitive fact. (Let mr know if I'm not using that symbol right) I would actually hope they didn't stoop to the level of rabid forum-goers just for the sake of pascifying them. It would mean they have their priorities f**ked up. Either way, I knew one day someone, somewhere would make this claim. To those people, thanks for proving me right.

Yeah that's basically lightspeed Haku.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Yeah that's basically lightspeed Haku.

???

People claiming Haku from Naruto(the kid with the ice kekki genkai who could teleport between mirrors) is moving at light speed.

Originally posted by KingD19
People claiming Haku from Naruto(the kid with the ice kekki genkai who could teleport between mirrors) is moving at light speed.

That doesn't surprise me. mariofacepalm

Originally posted by Sacred 117
I hear this same thing in God of War threads all the time. When someone claims "developer confirmation", it sounds more like "spoonfeeding us what we want to hear (instead of making a better game)" or "I'm making this up to get my way." It seems like nothing more than a petty means of trying to win an arguement. It must be easy backing Zeus for lightspeed after twice having the shit beat out of him by Kratos. No disrespect to you, but my experience with the worse half of the fanbase requires me to be skeptical.

As much as I'd like to believe you, I can't help but feel that even if they did so happen to say that themselves, it simply reeks hard of fanservice rather than being something they actually wanted to do. Akira Toriyama has an entire logbook of statements on DBZ characters, yet people still find a problem with this, and these are some of the same people.

Overall, "devs confirmed (insert absurd requirement for total suspension of disbelief here)" =/= definitive fact. (Let mr know if I'm not using that symbol right) I would actually hope they didn't stoop to the level of rabid forum-goers just for the sake of pascifying them. It would mean they have their priorities f**ked up. Either way, I knew one day someone, somewhere would make this claim. To those people, thanks for proving me right.

I don't have the actual quotes. There's a guy who's making a respect thread for Kratos who got the statements from multiple people on the GoW team and I think he either got it via PMs or twitter or something. Make of that what you will.

Regardless, those champions of Zeus have an item that lets them air-dash, and the item is stated (in-game) to give them the ability to move at lightspeed. Extrapolating it to Zeus, who is the one who grants them that ability/item, is fine in my book considering that's how the whole thing is supposed to work; we even see Zeus use a dash maneouver multiple times. The 'word-of-god' confirmation is just for further evidence for those that would need it for whatever reason.

Yes, you used it correctly

Originally posted by Sacred 117
???

A character from the first arc of the Naruto manga who can apparently move at lightspeed whilst using a mirror-based technique because one of the official databooks states that whilst that technique is active, he can move from mirror to mirror at lightspeed. Of course, fanboys forget to mention that as the technique goes on, Haku slows down. And they also forget to mention retcons, exaggeration/hyperbole. In a later databook, a Lightning technique is described as lightspeed as well, despite a character canonically stating it to be in the Mach X00 range (X=1 to 10)

So meh.

Why is that fine in your books?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I don't have the actual quotes. There's a guy who's making a respect thread for Kratos who got the statements from multiple people on the GoW team and I think he either got it via PMs or twitter or something. Make of that what you will.

Regardless, those champions of Zeus have an item that lets them air-dash, and the item is stated (in-game) to give them the ability to move at lightspeed. Extrapolating it to Zeus, who is the one who grants them that ability/item, is fine in my book considering that's how the whole thing is supposed to work; we even see Zeus use a dash maneouver multiple times. The 'word-of-god' confirmation is just for further evidence for those that would need it for whatever reason.

Yes, you used it correctly



A character from the first arc of the Naruto manga who can apparently move at lightspeed whilst using a mirror-based technique because one of the official databooks states that whilst that technique is active, he can move from mirror to mirror at lightspeed. Of course, fanboys forget to mention that as the technique goes on, Haku slows down. And they also forget to mention retcons, exaggeration/hyperbole. In a later databook, a Lightning technique is described as lightspeed as well, despite a character canonically stating it to be in the Mach X00 range (X=1 to 10)

So meh.

I kinda thought as much. I know who you're talking about, and while I'm OK with him, he used that same reasoning in a thread I made a long time ago (Donkey Kong vs. Banjo-Kazooie; what a hindsight spite-fest that turned out to be haermm) to declare that Banjo would somehow win. He could have been trolling, though. Again, no hate.

You know lightspeed is approximately mach 881,000, right? That would mean he could circle the globe 7-8 times in one second (IIRC). In that case, why the f**k did he ever need Hermes?! And as far as in-game statements go, Link's Golden Gauntlets are said to give him the strength to lift mountains. However, if brought to the table, people (again, some of the same) will find issue with it.

They're probably some of the same people who argue that Instant Transition isn't light speed on the grounds of it being "glorified teleportation". I'm not going to get into that by saying they're wrong, but this goes back to my earlier statement. People need to learn that deductive reasoning doesn't work that way. Your logic either applies universally or not at all. You can't simply pick and choose.

It's consistent with actual feats for one thing.

Kratos has reacted to lightning so many times and had it confirmed so many times now that any notion of a Kratos that isn't massively hypersonic in reaction-time is ludicrous.

Sacred's entire posts can be summed up with "I don't like it, it didn't happen".

No one gives a shit what you like.

What Toriyama logbooks are you even referring to?

How would reacting to lightning be consistent with lightspeed?

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's consistent with actual feats for one thing.

Kratos has reacted to lightning so many times and had it confirmed so many times now that any notion of a Kratos that isn't massively hypersonic in reaction-time is ludicrous.

Sacred's entire posts can be summed up with "I don't like it, it didn't happen".

No one gives a shit what you like.

What Toriyama logbooks are you even referring to?

Care to point out where I discredit reacting to lightning (which has nothing to do with the subject of light speed)? Way to try putting words in my mouth.

I have good reason to find fault with it. On the other side of the coin, wanting it to be true doesn't make it so.

I'm not sure why you're arguing this now. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f89/t599673.html

Just like Naruto (apparently), Toriyama has data books on DBZ characters' capabilities. I'm not sure exactly where to find anything about it anymore. Hopefully, you don't think I'm supporting it simply because I use it as an example, because that would be beside the point.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Why is that fine in your books?

Same reason Absolute Zero is fine in your books. peaches

Originally posted by Sacred 117
I kinda thought as much. I know who you're talking about, and while I'm OK with him, he used that same reasoning in a thread I made a long time ago (Donkey Kong vs. Banjo-Kazooie; what a hindsight spite-fest that turned out to be haermm) to declare that Banjo would somehow win. He could have been trolling, though. Again, no hate.

You know lightspeed is approximately mach 881,000, right? That would mean he could circle the globe 7-8 times in one second (IIRC). In that case, why the f**k did he ever need Hermes?! And as far as in-game statements go, Link's Golden Gauntlets are said to give him the strength to lift mountains. However, if brought to the table, people (again, some of the same) will find issue with it.

They're probably some of the same people who argue that Instant Transition isn't light speed on the grounds of it being "glorified teleportation". I'm not going to get into that by saying they're wrong, but this goes back to my earlier statement. People need to learn that deductive reasoning doesn't work that way. Your logic either applies universally or not at all. You can't simply pick and choose.

Meh, like I said, make of that what you will.

Hermes has his own set of duties and abilities though.
I could easily argue that in-game statements trump calcs based on RL physics and assumptions to put figures on feats that obviously do not take place with RL physics in effect.
People will find an issue with anything. This whole vs. debating feels pointless tbh.

I thought Instant Transmission wasn't lightspeed but teleportation, based on the simple fact that even light can't cover the distances Goku did in the same time-frame?

And that reason is?

Bias.

Kewl, feat omission then.

Like you had planned to do from the start. estahuh

Seeing as the only evidence was an items bio with literally nothing to back up or suggest it's true? With no defense, are you really giving me any other option?

Much like your pushing for Absolute Zero then innit.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Same reason Absolute Zero is fine in your books. peaches



Meh, like I said, make of that what you will.

Hermes has his own set of duties and abilities though.
I could easily argue that in-game statements trump calcs based on RL physics and assumptions to put figures on feats that obviously do not take place with RL physics in effect.
People will find an issue with anything. This whole vs. debating feels pointless tbh.

I thought Instant Transmission wasn't lightspeed but teleportation, based on the simple fact that even light can't cover the distances Goku did in the same time-frame?

Fair enough.

I see what you're saying. Doing vs. kinda implements sad double standards in some cases (like this one). Sonic should be f**king up whether patterns and dramatically increasing his mass, as fast as he's going, but welcome to the realm of fiction, I guess. Nonetheless, my point remains. Use one or the other; you can't have it both ways.

Honestly, I'm getting sick of the whole "ZOMG mah herp derp combat speed falacy" bullshit in general. I hoped it would die out a long time ago seeing as it leads people to narrowly neglect all other factors in its favor.

I'm not really sure. That's beside the point, either way.

Not really. I gave the reason of them being impervious to magma as something to point to the coldness (didn't bother backing -0k for sakes) and the much higher hellfire heat being the only temp that can damage them as being further demonstration of the ice.


So far I see an item bio here.

Originally posted by BloodRain
How would reacting to lightning be consistent with lightspeed? You misunderstand, I'm saying he doesn't have a plethora of showings where he's failed to react to slower things.

That I can recall anyway. Maybe Ares' pillar, but he was blindsided.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Care to point out where I discredit reacting to lightning (which has nothing to do with the subject of light speed)? Way to try putting words in my mouth.

I didn't try. I did.



So what does any of this have to do with me?

Originally posted by NemeBro
I didn't try. I did.



So what does any of this have to do with me?

That's what f**king thought. You have NOTHING.

Not addressing the points? What's wrong? I thought you had something to prove?

What points? That DBZ and Naruto have databooks?

Yeah I guess they do.

That I said Kratos has better reaction-time than Dante or Raiden?

He does.

What is your point?

Originally posted by NemeBro
What points? That DBZ and Naruto have databooks?

Yeah I guess they do.

That I said Kratos has better reaction-time than Dante or Raiden?

He does.

What is your point?

You ask for them, didn't you?

So Dante and Raiden can't react as fast as they can move? OK.

That he's not FTL or light speed.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Fair enough.

I see what you're saying. Doing vs. kinda implements sad double standards in some cases (like this one). Sonic should be f**king up whether patterns and dramatically increasing his mass, as fast as he's going, but welcome to the realm of fiction, I guess. Nonetheless, my point remains. Use one or the other; you can't have it both ways.

Honestly, I'm getting sick of the whole "ZOMG mah herp derp combat speed falacy" bullshit in general. I hoped it would die out a long time ago seeing as it leads people to narrowly neglect all other factors in its favor.

I'm not really sure. That's beside the point, either way.

Doing vs. with characters from different universes implements a whole lot of bias, double standards, and a host of other BS that make it pointless.
Are you ranting in general, or accusing me of using double-standards here?

Yes, people tend to believe speed trumps every other physical ability.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Not really. I gave the reason of them being impervious to magma as something to point to the coldness (didn't bother backing -0k for sakes) and the much higher hellfire heat being the only temp that can damage them as being further demonstration of the ice.

So far I see an item bio here.

And where exactly did you get that they were impervious to magma and only vulnerable to hellfire heat?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Doing vs. with characters from different universes implements a whole lot of bias, double standards, and a host of other BS that make it pointless.
Are you ranting in general, or accusing me of using double-standards here?

Yes, people tend to believe speed trumps every other physical ability.



And where exactly did you get that they were impervious to magma and only vulnerable to hellfire heat?

Yeah. They implement rules such as "energy equivalence" and "no-limits" in an attempt to make everything a little more balanced. Alas, no system is without flaw given its creation and use by flawed individuals (no offense to anyone).

Generalized rant. Nothing directed at you.

Exactly my point. No other stat or factor gets near the same attention or creates as much fuss. Debates and verdicts have become painfully shallow as a result. Even DEATH BATTLE, as often as they've been wrong (Lol at Rogue beating Wonder Woman), at least do more in-depth research and analysis than anyone here seems to bother doing.

Okay. What are you two pissing about?

1 Avatar is enough

No Avatars are enough

Question for the OP: Is this 50 Avatars throughout history, or duplicates of one or few Avatars we actually know about?

Knowing this might help.

@DP: The Frost bio backed up by the game showing it can survive in a volcano and even touch magma (it's where you encounter them) without flinching, to then be crippled when using Ifrit far more than other weapons.


@Neme: Maybe not (maybe? Too many scenes to remember), but there's also nothing, even from the very top tiers, that suggests such a speed is below the gods. Isn't something like this usually thrown as an outlier, or at least highly sceptical even with a slight more evidence (say a offshot calc) than this? Like moon busting and lightspeed in early DB.

anyone read god of war 2 novel ? i think zeus have new speed feat like zeus was able to vanish in a flash of light ...

http://books.google.co.id/books?id=6afPNKGJyfEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=god+of+war+2+novel&hl=id&sa=X&ei=InjoU66gLtiD8gXD9oHQCw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

The novel would only end up crippling GoW.

Why?

That I recall they describe Kratos' strength, durability and I think speed as being only superhuman. Wolverine level superhuman. Accepting the novel and those feats wouldn't help GoW imo.

Feats/powerscaling>

So we can accept both feats?

I'm well aware the novel has a fair share of low ends, which like evry other series, just get ignored

and now...... kratos vs aang thread http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/kratos-vs-aang.307772/

I thought we went by constancy?

Originally posted by BloodRain
I thought we went by constancy?

Yeah. So did I.

Originally posted by BloodRain
That I recall they describe Kratos' strength, durability and I think speed as being only superhuman. Wolverine level superhuman. Accepting the novel and those feats wouldn't help GoW imo. How so?

Feats going into detail about events putting Kratos at Logan's level? I don't even remember people showing novel Kratos doing impressive things (admittedly people may just have not posted any yet). But there's a constant amount like this.

Okay so what puts him at Wolverine level?

"strength of six men", shrapnel, arrows damaging with mooks weapons being a threat. Not getting much from memory, and I'm assuming you know of his superior novel feats?

So the first one isn't a feat. The latter ones may or may not depend on context.

Idk though, I haven't read the novels and don't usually use them that often in my arguments.

Oh no the first was him putting effort into drawing a bow that requires the strength of six men. Latter ones were in-dept iirc.

Anyhow I'm just saying that as the novel is secondary canon, shouldn't the feats from it be taken a similar way to one another?