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Loki
Wielding: Chitauri Scepter
Movies: Thor, Thor 2 The Dark World, Avengers

vs

Darth Sidious
Wielding: A single Lightsaber
Movies: Prequel and Original trilogies, The clone wars TV show.

Who wins?

Loki is stronger but he'd get sliced like anything else by that lightsaber. add in Force abilities and I think Loki bites it here. Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor...

Illusion magic.

Loki loses

With Clone Wars feats added, Sidious wins this.

Oh shit didn't know clone wars feats were added.











Loki loses.

Palpatine takes care of business

Unless Loki can pull some illusion trickery and get behind palpatine, where then he can mind control palp, he loses.

I'm sure palpatine would be able to sense Loki though, so... Yeah, Sidious wins.

The staff can also shoot energy blasts besides mind control.

Originally posted by Inhuman
The staff can also shoot energy blasts besides mind control.
Sidious should be able to block energy blasts. Jedi are simply too powerful. With their force abilities alone, they're extremely difficult to defeat on paper.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Sidious should be able to block energy blasts. Jedi are simply too powerful. With their force abilities alone, they're extremely difficult to defeat on paper.


Also alot of jedi were killed by blasters. Mix energy blasts with illusions and such.
just pointing it out. not saying that Loki will win.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Also alot of jedi were killed by blasters. Mix energy blasts with illusions and such.
just pointing it out. not saying that Loki will win.

True, but Sidious is no red shirt.

Loki's Magic Feats
Invisibility
Single and Multiple Holographic projections
Environmental Reality Illusions: like when he was trapped in his cell and talking to Thor.
Shapeshifting
Teleportation
Mind Control
Magical Daggers
Spear of Destiny

Loki's Fighting feats/Durability Feats
Survives a direct bi forst explosion
Tanks Repulsors without damage
Bullet Proof
Head to head with Thor multiple times without ever bleeding
Hulk smashing and lives, shruggs off after a few minutes
Easily Handles Captain America
Tanks the Destroyer Weapon Coulsen hit him with that shield made
Takes on multiple Dark Elves with a dagger, with ease.

Which feats does Palp have above this?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Loki's Magic Feats
Invisibility
Single and Multiple Holographic projections
Environmental Reality Illusions: like when he was trapped in his cell and talking to Thor.
Shapeshifting
Teleportation
Mind Control
Magical Daggers
Spear of Destiny

Loki's Fighting feats/Durability Feats
Survives a direct bi forst explosion
Tanks Repulsors without damage
Bullet Proof
Head to head with Thor multiple times without ever bleeding
Hulk smashing and lives, shruggs off after a few minutes
Easily Handles Captain America
Tanks the Destroyer Weapon Coulsen hit him with that shield made
Takes on multiple Dark Elves with a dagger, with ease.

Which feats does Palp have above this?

Speed blitzing multiple Jedi and slaughtering them in a few seconds. Which is what he does here to Loki, just a little quicker, since he only has to kill one person.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/70453/1394717-ks65555xo5.gif

Do you think Loki could take on these four and kill three in a matter of seconds before they can react?

Originally posted by Robtard
Speed blitzing multiple Jedi and slaughtering them in a few seconds. Which is what he does here to Loki, just a little quicker, since he only has to kill one person.

He would be swinging at air with Loki and I doubt that saber would do anything to him.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
He would be swinging at air with Loki and I doubt that saber would do anything to him.

Palpatine isn't some dummy like Thor who falls for parlor tricks. Lightsabres can cut through ship hulls, but not Loki? LoL.

well we had to determine if the Destroyer weapon that loki tanked is > than a lightsaber cut
or
destroyer gun < lighsaber (cut)

I say "cut" because a slice from a lightsaber is different from standing there cutting through blast doors for a few minutes.

A few of Sidious feats
Throws senate pods with ease
Force chokes Count Dooku from across the galaxy
Ragdolls Darth Maul and Savage Opress
Stalemates Yodas tutaminis with lightning
Force chokes two guys before even entering the room
Tanks his own lightning being turned on him
Sends Mace Windu flying a vast distance with lightning

Fighting Feats
Stalemates Yoda not once but twice
Stalemate Mace Windu for a lengthy period of time
Toys with Darth Maul and Savage Opress at the same time
Blitz three jedi masters

Originally posted by Inhuman
well we had to determine if the Destroyer weapon that loki tanked is > than a lightsaber cut
or
destroyer gun < lighsaber (cut)

I say "cut" because a slice from a lightsaber is different from standing there cutting through blast doors for a few minutes. Lokis weapon can withstand Thors hammer, a lightsaber isn't going to cut it.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Lokis weapon can withstand Thors hammer, a lightsaber isn't going to cut it.

Different types of damage. But it's a fair enough argument.

Originally posted by Robtard
Different types of damage. But it's a fair enough argument. Thors hammer> Lightsaber.

Lightsabers cant cut through everything, infact there are many things lightsabers cant cut. They are a great weapon but they don't > all. Thors hammer however has proven to be able to deal a lot more damage.

Going with Darth Sidious here.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Thors hammer> Lightsaber.

Lightsabers cant cut through everything, infact there are many things lightsabers cant cut. They are a great weapon but they don't > all. Thors hammer however has proven to be able to deal a lot more damage.

You're still comparing smashing damage to heat/cutting. Which is faulty.

Let me give you an example: Iron Man's armor was hit by Mjolnir; it took some damage and was dented. Are you going to say that a lightsabre wouldn't easily cut through Iron Man's armor?

Nothing has killed or hurt Loki for long. He has tanked way worse then a light saber. Bi frost and destroyer weapon, even his own Chitari weapon being shot back at him when Cap reflected it.

Hes tanked worst than getting his head or a limb cut off? A lightsaber isnt simply damage, its Cutting/Slashing damage, removal of limbs damage, not just SLAM.....Im OK damage. Big difference there.

Jedis have been killed hurt by explosions , blasters, etc.
Is Sidious's Durability good enough to survive a blast from loki? Meaning lets say Sidious dodges a full on blast with the scepter , the blast hits the floor next to him , there is an explosion. Does Sidious survive the explosion next to him, when other Jedis have been injured or killed by explosions? Is he injured?
How durable is Sidious?

How far apart are they before the fight?. If they are face to face then yeah sidious has a huge advatage. If they are a good deal apart from each other before starting to fight then Sidious's advantage is greatly depleted.

Originally posted by DTM
Hes tanked worst than getting his head or a limb cut off? A lightsaber isnt simply damage, its Cutting/Slashing damage, removal of limbs damage, not just SLAM.....Im OK damage. Big difference there.

Lets see the damage he has taken would have cut holes through the jedi, disintegrated and dismembered them. Can we cut it out with the lightsaber can cut through anything bs, its really getting old.

Im not saying a lightsaber could cut through anything, but Id say it would cut through Asgardian flesh and armor. Adamantium, uru, sure, but Loki himself, yes I do believe a lightsaber would be able to slice through it. Maybe not like a hot knife through butter, but solidly enough in the end.

With Clone Wars feats included, Sidious should take this pretty solidly.

Originally posted by DTM
Im not saying a lightsaber could cut through anything, but Id say it would cut through Asgardian flesh and armor. Adamantium, uru, sure, but Loki himself, yes I do believe a lightsaber would be able to slice through it. Maybe not like a hot knife through butter, but solidly enough in the end.

Nothing else has pierced Loki and he has been hit with far worse then a lightsaber. Didn't I mention all the feats he has tanked. The saber ain't working on him like it works on humans.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Nothing else has pierced Loki and he has been hit with far worse then a lightsaber. Didn't I mention all the feats he has tanked. The saber ain't working on him like it works on humans. All those feats and thor has even better feats. Yet a small metal dagger pierced his flesh. His scepter could withstand a lightsaber and his armor will most likely deflect light strikes but a full on lightsaber strike is something he better avoid unless he enjoys being dismembered

Agree 100%.

Loki is taken repulsor blast twice by Iron Man and gotten up. Hulk smashed him and hit got some cuts and bruises but still survived, even sitting up later. That's some serious durability. Got blown up by one of Hawkeye's grenade arrow point blank and was only bruised. In fact, it actually looks like his bruised on his face was sustained some time before that so that grenade might not even have scratched his face. This is the same grenade arrow that blew a huge hole into the metal shell of a carriers wind turbine. People act as if a swing from a lightsaber is going to cut Loki up when Loki does have higher durability than most of the things Lightsabers have gone up against. It may cut him but I doubt it would be from a simple swing. A swing would likely only scratch the guy which opens Palpaltine up to Loki blasting his face apart.

Lightsabers have cut through starship hulls

Anyways with Clone Wars feats in play, Sidious should be far more powerful than ****ers who've collapsed cliff faces and moves space shuttles around casually and shit

Originally posted by Firefly218
Loki loses He gets raped.

Hulk punches and Repulsor Blasts are NOT the same type of attack as a Lightsaber. One is of a more blunt/force attack, the other is a slashing/cutting attack, they are both physical attacks, but the damage they cause is very different.

Originally posted by DTM
Hulk punches and Repulsor Blasts are NOT the same type of attack as a Lightsaber. One is of a more blunt/force attack, the other is a slashing/cutting attack, they are both physical attacks, but the damage they cause is very different.

Tony's repulsers were cutting through steel, same as lightsabers. Its shown him going through the hellicarrier with his repulsers as well. They can cut just like a saber. The myth that lightsabers are now stronger then the destroyers weapon and IM repulsers is a little far fetched tbh. We even see Thor tanking a blast from Gungir, so we could count on Loki could as well.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Tony's repulsers were cutting through steel, same as lightsabers. Its shown him going through the hellicarrier with his repulsers as well. They can cut just like a saber. The myth that lightsabers are now stronger then the destroyers weapon and IM repulsers is a little far fetched tbh. We even see Thor tanking a blast from Gungir, so we could count on Loki could as well. *pushes up his nerd glasses* so I know this is an in movie debate but if you really want the definitive answer of if a lightsaber could harm Loki I could explain how lightsabers function and what things resist lightsabers.

A lightsaber blade is actually a blade of pure immensely hot plasma held inside an arching containment field. The blade only ever emits heat when it comes in contact with a material and the resistance the blade meets when cutting through materials is based on the materials density. The denser the material the more resistance the lightsaber will meet. Also the blade has no real mass but when swinging the blade it has a gyroscopic effect, meaning once you get the blade moving in a direction it doesn't want to stop. This is why lightsabers are hard weapons to master and why most jedi prefer to hold a lightsaber with two hands. This actually is a benefit because it makes power attacks easier and more momentum behind the blade means greater cutting power. Also lightsaber blades can be broken. And im not talking about the hilt I am talking about the actual blade. But this is so rare that it has only happened once, and it was fixed by the person turning the blade off and on again.

Now the few things that are resistant to lightsaber blades in starwars are usually force enhanced metal, a special metal named cortosis that has a small chance of shorting out the blade on contact, and the most effect of all of them is Mandalorian Iron. Also one of the rarest substances in the universe. All of these things have endurance factors that are off the charts.

So to tell if Loki can really resist a lightsaber we would need to know, A, his density, and B, his resistance to pure super heated plasma.

Now none of this is from the movies this is just me being a super starwars nerd so if you chose to discard all this info I get it.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
*pushes up his nerd glasses* so I know this is an in movie debate but if you really want the definitive answer of if a lightsaber could harm Loki I could explain how lightsabers function and what things resist lightsabers.

A lightsaber blade is actually a blade of pure immensely hot plasma held inside an arching containment field. The blade only ever emits heat when it comes in contact with a material and the resistance the blade meets when cutting through materials is based on the materials density. The denser the material the more resistance the lightsaber will meet. Also the blade has no real mass but when swinging the blade it has a gyroscopic effect, meaning once you get the blade moving in a direction it doesn't want to stop. This is why lightsabers are hard weapons to master and why most jedi prefer to hold a lightsaber with two hands. This actually is a benefit because it makes power attacks easier and more momentum behind the blade means greater cutting power. Also lightsaber blades can be broken. And im not talking about the hilt I am talking about the actual blade. But this is so rare that it has only happened once, and it was fixed by the person turning the blade off and on again.

Now the few things that are resistant to lightsaber blades in starwars are usually force enhanced metal, a special metal named cortosis that has a small chance of shorting out the blade on contact, and the most effect of all of them is Mandalorian Iron. Also one of the rarest substances in the universe. All of these things have endurance factors that are off the charts.

So to tell if Loki can really resist a lightsaber we would need to know, A, his density, and B, his resistance to pure super heated plasma.

Now none of this is from the movies this is just me being a super starwars nerd so if you chose to discard all this info I get it.

Good post. Since its impossible to know what would happen to him via lightsaber, we can only go off feats relating to heat and cutting and explosions based off his movie feats because there is no cross over.

If we look at Asgardian durability

Things they no sold with little effect.

Thor has tanked Gungir twice. Loki's durability rivals his brothers.
Loki has tanked the spear of destiny once, and the destroyer weapon
They both tanked the bi frost explosion and and Iron Mans's Repulsors.
Took a exploding arrow to the face.


Im inclined to think it would slash him but doing a repeat of Darth Maul in halves is highly unlikely.

The arguments made here are dumb. Loki is tough but he isn't invulnerable. The light Saber would cut him like butter. He loses badly here.

EU feats shouldn't be allowed

I don't know why people are even discussing the lightsaber issue here. IMO Sidious wouldn't even need to draw it. Loki has no answer whatsoever to force TK. Sidious was a total beast in the Clone Wars. He could use force powers to dodge and avoid Loki's attacks, then force pull his spear from him, rag doll him until he is stunned, and then blast him in the face with his own weapon until he is KO'd. He literally doesn't even need his saber for this, at least IMO.

7hBZNsPnyg

I really don't see Loki being able to do anything to beat him.

Stupid 15 minute edit rule:

-7hBZNsPnyg

Like I said, don't see Loki being able to overcome Sidious' speed, agility and force powers.

Edit: Ok no idea why the clip doesn't want to display right now. Never mind, fixed it.

Loki withstood the Destroyer-gun blast. That along with the Bifrost feat, should definitely ensure that his durability is high enough to withstand lightsaber heat.

Loki:

Illusions, cancelled out by Sidious' Force abilities

Scepter: Lightsaber would cut that up

Durability: Lightsaber would at least cut Loki, meaning that he could at least get his throat cut.

Not to mention that Sidious' Lightning would be a huge problem for Loki, his TK would easily grip Loki setting him up for some serious slice n dice from Sidious

Originally posted by Epicurus
Loki withstood the Destroyer-gun blast. That along with the Bifrost feat, should definitely ensure that his durability is high enough to withstand lightsaber heat.

It doesn't matter, when Loki can't do shit to Sidious. Based on force speed/precog/agility/reflexes/acrobatics, he can dodge or avoid any of Loki's ranged attacks. And force tk can allow him to ragdoll Loki as he pleases, keeping him from getting close.

And let's say his saber can't cut through Loki's flesh. Sidious can still use force pull to disarm him and use his own weapon against him. If he can manage to use its more exotic functions, he can blast Loki until he is KO'd. If he can't, it is still a spear with a sharp, pointy blade at the end. A blade that, based on what we have seen of the weapons Asgardians, Frost Giants, Dark Elves, and their other rivals and enemies use, should be more than capable of hurting Loki.

Sidious is more than intelligent enough to realise, "Hmmmm, my saber isn't working, but maybe his own spear could hurt him." It's a logical deduction to make. People going into combat want the best weapon available to them. And while you can't really prepare much for someone with a massive durability advantage, you can at least ensure that your weapon can harm someone on your own level. So it is logical for Sidious to think that Loki's spear could potentially hurt him.

Loki is probably one of my top 3 favourite MCU characters but, any way you play it, he cannot win, and is likely to get sliced up. Either with a saber (if it can damage him), or with his own spear.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It doesn't matter, when Loki can't do shit to Sidious. Based on force speed/precog/agility/reflexes/acrobatics, he can dodge or avoid any of Loki's ranged attacks. And force tk can allow him to ragdoll Loki as he pleases, keeping him from getting close.

And let's say his saber can't cut through Loki's flesh. Sidious can still use force pull to disarm him and use his own weapon against him. If he can manage to use its more exotic functions, he can blast Loki until he is KO'd. If he can't, it is still a spear with a sharp, pointy blade at the end. A blade that, based on what we have seen of the weapons Asgardians, Frost Giants, Dark Elves, and their other rivals and enemies use, should be more than capable of hurting Loki.

Sidious is more than intelligent enough to realise, "Hmmmm, my saber isn't working, but maybe his own spear could hurt him." It's a logical deduction to make. People going into combat want the best weapon available to them. And while you can't really prepare much for someone with a massive durability advantage, you can at least ensure that your weapon can harm someone on your own level. So it is logical for Sidious to think that Loki's spear could potentially hurt him.

Loki is probably one of my top 3 favourite MCU characters but, any way you play it, he cannot win, and is likely to get sliced up. Either with a saber (if it can damage him), or with his own spear.
His agility is nowhere near Loki's, who can easily catch high-tech arrow shot at him by an above-Olympic-level archer like Hawkeye.

Precog didn't really help the Emperor when Vader tossed him down an abyss now, did it?

Ok, good luck with that. First of all prove that Sidious is capable of wielding an object that is empowered by an Infinity Stone. Once you've done so, disprove the fact that Loki's scepter can function even when it isn't being wielded by him, as evidenced by how it was messing up the minds of all the heroes on board the Helicarrier.

Loki has illusions, teleportation, can shoot blasts that easily toss cars in midair, is stronger, has better reflexes, superior healing factor, is older and more experienced combatabt than Sidious etc.

This thread belongs to Loki.

IDK about his Clone Wars feats, but based on the OT and PT, Palps TK should allow him to snag Loki's weapon from him and kill him with it. IDK if Loki's illusions will work since Jedi/Sith can force-sense people from planets away. Since the force is a ubiquitous quantum field, there's no way Loki can use his reflexes to dodge it.

Palp wins 7/10

Originally posted by Epicurus
His agility is nowhere near Loki's, who can easily catch high-tech arrow shot at him by an above-Olympic-level archer like Hawkeye.

Did you even watch the Clone Wars clip of him schooling Maul and Savage with utter ease? This isn't slow looking RotS Sidious. This is Clone Wars Sidious, who, based on those feats, is faster and more agile than Loki.

Originally posted by Epicurus

Precog didn't really help the Emperor when Vader tossed him down an abyss now, did it?

Sidious was being an arrogant ****, letting himself be caught off guard but another force user, while torturing Luke. This is a 1 on 1 fight. His attention is going to be focused on Loki alone.

Originally posted by Epicurus

Ok, good luck with that. First of all prove that Sidious is capable of wielding an object that is empowered by an Infinity Stone. Once you've done so, disprove the fact that Loki's scepter can function even when it isn't being wielded by him, as evidenced by how it was messing up the minds of all the heroes on board the Helicarrier.

Firstly, I said IF he can manage to use the more exotic abilities of the staff he can blast him. Whether he can or cannot is speculation. But, like I said, it is still a spear, first and foremost. And considering Black Widow could wield it to close the portal at the end of Avengers, I see no reason why Sidious can't use it to stab or slash Loki.

Originally posted by Epicurus

Loki has illusions, teleportation, can shoot blasts that easily toss cars in midair, is stronger, has better reflexes, superior healing factor, is older and more experienced combatabt than Sidious etc.

Blasts that are useless if he gets disarmed via force tk. Strength that is meaningless if he can't get close to Sidious, considering Sidious can just force push him away whenever he wishes. Better reflexes is highly debatable, considering what Sidious has shown himself capable of. And a healing factor that doesn't help if he gets his throat slit open. And it is doubtful his illusions will work on a Sith of Sidious' callibre.

So tell me, what is Loki going to do if Sidious disarms him of his weapon in the opening moments of the match? And then proceeds to tk throw him around at his leisure? Or tortures him with force lighting? How is he going to mount any kind of offensive when he can't even get near Sidious, unless Sidious lets him?

watch?v=NBpB-rWPvE8

watch?v=W9DZF7Hx2zM

Im not sure how Loki can beat any of that

Lighting and choking? I don't see how that would hurt Loki. Thats stuff he's been dealing with his whole life.

Everyone is discussing if Sidious can harm Loki. Lets say he can. Sidious is a beast.
No one is even giving Loki a chance to touch Sidious. Can Sidious survive any attack from Loki?
I know people will say Sidious will be untouchable and what not(debatable), but in the event Loki lands a blow , what durabilty does Sidious have to indicate he can take any attack from Loki?
Loki would not have died getting thrown by luke like that.

Loki wouldn't have died from being thrown into a reactor that generates moar power in 24 hours then the sun does every 7000 years?

lol

Anyways, force users can survive force attacks from eachother, so durability goodies. Not sure if it means Loki can't harm him or not but there you go

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Loki wouldn't have died from being thrown into a reactor that generates moar power in 24 hours then the sun does every 7000 years?

lol

Anyways, force users can survive force attacks from eachother, so durability goodies. Not sure if it means Loki can't harm him or not but there you go

In the movies even strong Jedis have been killed by blasters , explosions, being close to explosions, etc. Im sure a number of Lokis asgaurdian level attacks can harm Sidious.
Im going assume that reactor stat is from the EU so it doesnt mean much.

Im sure both can harm each other. That is not what im trying to say.
All i am trying to say here is that I think Sidious would be in more trouble if Loki lands a blow than if Sidious lands a blow on Loki. Based on durability feats.

Originally posted by Inhuman
All i am trying to say here is that I think Sidious would be in more trouble if Loki lands a blow than if Sidious lands a blow on Loki. Based on durability feats.

Well, depends on what they are using to land said blow. For example, if either of them knocks the other one into a wall or something, the impact will hurt Sidious a lot more than it would Loki. But if either slices the other one's throat open, for example, it's game over either way. Basically, IF Loki could connect, he could potentially one-shot Sidious. But, based on their speed, agility and powersets, I don't see Loki connecting any of his attacks.

And considering Sidious can force push Loki whenever he gets close, or ragdoll him all over the place, and also potentially disarm him via force tk, and stab him with his own weapon, the edge here goes to Sidious.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And considering Sidious can force push Loki whenever he gets close, or ragdoll him all over the place, and also potentially disarm him via force tk, and stab him with his own weapon, the edge here goes to Sidious.

Well yes Sidious can use all those abilities on Loki. Understandable.
But we have to assume Loki will also use all his tricks abilities. Sidious can try to Force and saber rape Loki but it will most likely be an illusion. Thats how Loki fights.
And I dont buy that Lokis illusions wont work on Sidious because they even tricked ODIN.
So I think its fair to say that if Sidious's force attacks and such will work on Loki, its fair to also say Lokis bag of tricks can work on Sidious. Loki has also shown TK.
I know Sidous will be VERY hard to touch. I can also say Loki could mind fuq sidious with a bunch of illusions that even tricked ODIN, making him pretty untouchable too.
So like I said assuming they both fight using all thier abilities, I dont see how any of them would be untouchable to the other. But I do see Sidious being affected by any of Loki attacks more than Loki to sidious's attack.

Death blows are a different story, but that is something both can deliver. Not just exclusive to one person.

Also if we are assuming one guy is untouchable then why even make this thread?
Just close it already then.
Im just making a point that its not entierly impossible for Loki to land a blow on sidiouos, AND IF he does then Sidious is in serious trouble because of his durability.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Well yes Sidious can use all those abilities on Loki. Understandable.
But we have to assume Loki will also use all his tricks abilities. Sidious can try to Force and saber rape Loki but it will most likely be an illusion. Thats how Loki fights.
And I dont buy that Lokis illusions wont work on Sidious because they even tricked ODIN.
So I think its fair to say that if Sidious's force attacks and such will work on Loki, its fair to also say Lokis bag of tricks can work on Sidious. Loki has also shown TK.

Yes, but those are also the same illusions Thor was able to see through in the 2nd film. And Thor has never displayed any kind of telepathic abilities of his own. Sidious was able to cloud the precog of the entire Jedi order, and detect that Vader was in danger, while in another solar system. So his senses should be able to tell him that something is off, if Loki uses his illusions in battle. Fact is, people have shown the ability to see through Loki's tricks. Only other force users have been capable of countering things like force tk. And Loki has displayed some kind of short range magical tk burst while in his cell but, given that he never ever uses it in combat, I assume that it isn't very powerful. Definitely not on the level of a Sith Lord.


Originally posted by Inhuman

I know Sidous will be VERY hard to touch. I can also say Loki could mind fuq sidious with a bunch of illusions that even tricked ODIN, making him pretty untouchable too.
So like I said assuming they both fight using all thier abilities, I dont see how any of them would be untouchable to the other. But I do see Sidious being affected by any of Loki attacks more than Loki to sidious's attack.

See the point about Thor also seeing through Loki's illusions. And those illusions are pretty flimsy, to be honest. Thor disposed of the army of illusion Lokis, at the end of the first Thor movie, with relative ease. Force tk bursts or spamming force lighting should do the same. And force user senses should help Sidious here as well. Their precog/danger sense isn't limited to deflecting blaster bolts. For example, Anakin was able to detect an assassination attempt on Padme, while in a different room. So if not allow him to see directly through Loki's illusions, his precog should at least allow him to detect where the real danger is coming from.


Originally posted by Inhuman

Death blows are a different story, but that is something both can deliver. Not just exclusive to one person.

Never said it is exclusive. Like I said, if Loki can land a solid hit, it would probably either cripple or kill Sidious. But landing that hit is the problem.


Originally posted by Inhuman

Also if we are assuming one guy is untouchable then why even make this thread?
Just close it already then.
Im just making a point that its not entierly impossible for Loki to land a blow on sidiouos, AND IF he does then Sidious is in serious trouble because of his durability.

Well, you have to ask the thread starter that. I just personally don't see Loki being able to overcome Sidious' tk and other force powers, in order to get hits in.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Did you even watch the Clone Wars clip of him schooling Maul and Savage with utter ease? This isn't slow looking RotS Sidious. This is Clone Wars Sidious, who, based on those feats, is faster and more agile than Loki.

Sidious was being an arrogant ****, letting himself be caught off guard but another force user, while torturing Luke. This is a 1 on 1 fight. His attention is going to be focused on Loki alone.

Firstly, I said IF he can manage to use the more exotic abilities of the staff he can blast him. Whether he can or cannot is speculation. But, like I said, it is still a spear, first and foremost. And considering Black Widow could wield it to close the portal at the end of Avengers, I see no reason why Sidious can't use it to stab or slash Loki.

Blasts that are useless if he gets disarmed via force tk. Strength that is meaningless if he can't get close to Sidious, considering Sidious can just force push him away whenever he wishes. Better reflexes is highly debatable, considering what Sidious has shown himself capable of. And a healing factor that doesn't help if he gets his throat slit open. And it is doubtful his illusions will work on a Sith of Sidious' callibre.

So tell me, what is Loki going to do if Sidious disarms him of his weapon in the opening moments of the match? And then proceeds to tk throw him around at his leisure? Or tortures him with force lighting? How is he going to mount any kind of offensive when he can't even get near Sidious, unless Sidious lets him?
Are you f*cking kidding me? That clip doesn't indicate, in any manner whatsoever, that Sidious edges out Loki's reflexes.

Lol, tell me again how exactly did a crippled, and beaten up Vader somehow use the Force to undo Sidious' precog? Or are you making shit up as you go along?

There are no "ifs" or "buts" here. The spear is empowered by an Infinity Stone(Mind Gem). Loki absolutely can use its abilities, since ya know...he was shown doing it in the Avengers. But I guess I give you too much credit to actually remember detailed scenes from the movie instead of ranting on shit you make up as you go along. Lol, Selvig specifically built the safety to cut their power source. The energy from the Sceptre was the same as the Tesseract(since they are both Infinity Stones after all). That's why BW was able to close it. She didn't utilize the sceptre's exotic powers.

Then he'll just proceed to beat the shit out of Sidious. Yes he can get close, since he's faster than him. Better reflexes isn't debatable at all. You have to prove whether Sidious' tk is as powerful as Hulk's strength, to be able to put the kind of damage on Loki to put him out of commission.

What will Sidious do once the sceptre has him under mind control, or if Loki uses doppelganger projections? The sceptre's versatility more than makes up for Loki's lack of, and in terms of physical stats Loki completely outclasses Sidious. This fight is Loki's.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Are you f*cking kidding me? That clip doesn't indicate, in any manner whatsoever, that Sidious edges out Loki's reflexes.

I am comparing the speed at which both are shown fighting and reacting to opponents in combat. Sidious, fighting two people at once (and judging from him laughing and smiling throughout most of the fight, with relative ease), moves and reacts just as fast, if not faster, than Loki has done in any of his own fights.

Originally posted by Epicurus

Lol, tell me again how exactly did a crippled, and beaten up Vader somehow use the Force to undo Sidious' precog? Or are you making shit up as you go along?

Did you not read what I said previously. There is a big difference between focusing on an opponent in a one-on-one, direct confrontation, and allowing yourself to get distracted while torturing someone. Force precog has consistently shown itself to help force users survive or detect danger during battle. Danger that they couldn't have detected with just their normal senses. I take the more consistent showings as the average.

Originally posted by Epicurus

There are no "ifs" or "buts" here. The spear is empowered by an Infinity Stone(Mind Gem). Loki absolutely can use its abilities, since ya know...he was shown doing it in the Avengers. But I guess I give you too much credit to actually remember detailed scenes from the movie instead of ranting on shit you make up as you go along. Lol, Selvig specifically built the safety to cut their power source. The energy from the Sceptre was the same as the Tesseract(since they are both Infinity Stones after all). That's why BW was able to close it. She didn't utilize the sceptre's exotic powers.

Are you sh*tt*ng me? Did you not read what I have said. I said him being able to use its exotic functions was SPECULATION. Until we see him actually try to use it (which will never happen, obviously), no one can claim to the outcome. But as I also said, it is a spear. Big, pointy, sharp, deadly blade at the end. I never said Black Widow used its exotic powers. Nor did I even imply it. I meant that if she can pick it up and make a stabbing motion with it, then Sidious can use the blade at the end to stab Loki with it (Not an exotic power of the spear AT ALL).

Originally posted by Epicurus

Then he'll just proceed to beat the shit out of Sidious. Yes he can get close, since he's faster than him. Better reflexes isn't debatable at all. You have to prove whether Sidious' tk is as powerful as Hulk's strength, to be able to put the kind of damage on Loki to put him out of commission.

Ok so tell me how does he get close to "beat the shit out of Sidious" when Sidious can lift him up and throw him back with a wave of his hand? Or hold him in place? Based on the fact that he could lift and force choke two people at once without even being in the same room as them, he could force lift Loki and his spear at the same time and stab him with it. Because, you still haven't provided any kind of way for Loki to contend with force push, pull, lift etc. And if you are going to to suggest the Loki can speed blits and kill Sidious before Sidious can move his hand, you have to prove it. And while you are at it, prove that his overall movements are faster? Or that his reflexes are better than force user reflexes? I have presented evidence as to why I think Sidious is at least of comparable speed. Your turn.

And you are purposefully ignoring the point I keep bringing up over and over. I never said that ragdolling him alone would be enough to beat him. I said that it could stun or disrupt him long enough to leave him vulnerable for a KO/fatal hit. Getting force lifted and thrown into a wall might not do any serious damage to Loki, but it will leave him open to an attack that could. But go ahead, keep ignoring that.

Originally posted by Epicurus

What will Sidious do once the sceptre has him under mind control, or if Loki uses doppelganger projections? The sceptre's versatility more than makes up for Loki's lack of, and in terms of physical stats Loki completely outclasses Sidious. This fight is Loki's.

Firstly, tell me how Loki is going to get Sidious into a position to where he can do his mind magic thing when Sidious can fling him back, with the force, whenever he pleases. Or prove that he is fast enough to get him into that position, to begin with. Then prove that the scepter's mind control powers will work on a being like Sidious, with his own abilities and powerset. And I have already addressed the illusions in another post to someone else.

Basically, once you can tell me how Loki is going to overcome being force lifted (where physical strength means nothing) and flung around every time Sidious feels like it, then there is an argument for Loki beating Sidious.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Also alot of jedi were killed by blasters. Mix energy blasts with illusions and such.
just pointing it out. not saying that Loki will win.


Too many opponents seem to be the Jedi's weakspot. They do better against 1 powerful opponent.

That being said Sidious took out 3 Jedi Masters pretty quickly, so I'm not sure how many opponents it would take to down him.



Anyway I personally think Sidious would win, but it wouldn't be easy. Sidious will sense Loki in the Force so he won't be tricked by any illusions. Whilst a Lightsaber will cut Loki but not outright decapitate him in 1 Swing. The guy does have monstrous durability.

Ashoka and some younglings were able to level a cliff face easily

Palpatine>>Anakin/Obi-Wan>>>

How would Sidious not harm Loki with the force now?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am comparing the speed at which both are shown fighting and reacting to opponents in combat. Sidious, fighting two people at once (and judging from him laughing and smiling throughout most of the fight, with relative ease), moves and reacts just as fast, if not faster, than Loki has done in any of his own fights.
No he doesn't. Loki was literally shown to possess superhuman reflexes. Heck, in Agents of SHIELD, a lower-level Asgardian has superstrength and speed.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Did you not read what I said previously.
I read it sure, and it was a load of baloney. I have rarely seen any of this precog nonsense which you Starwars fanboy spout about in actual combat scenes from the movies themselves.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Are you sh*tt*ng me? Did you not read what I have said. I said him being able to use its exotic functions was SPECULATION.

I did, and it's an outright lie, since we do actually SEE him use the f*cking thing.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Until we see him actually try to use it (which will never happen, obviously), no one can claim to the outcome.

Did you watch some special edition version of the film which left out large segments of the film? Because we see him use it to mind-control his victims, we see him use it to create mirage copies, we see him use it to barricade the civilian population in Germany, we see him use its energy blasts etc.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

But as I also said, it is a spear. Big, pointy, sharp, deadly blade at the end. I never said Black Widow used its exotic powers. Nor did I even imply it. I meant that if she can pick it up and make a stabbing motion with it, then Sidious can use the blade at the end to stab Loki with it (Not an exotic power of the spear AT ALL).
He can try that tactic all he wants, Loki won't be killed by it anyways, and the spear will f*ck him up as it was doing so to the Avengers in the Hellicarrier.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

Ok so tell me how does he get close to "beat the shit out of Sidious"

With his fists.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

And you are purposefully ignoring the point I keep bringing up over and over.

No, that's your MO. Along with lying and twisting sh1t out of context, it seems.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I never said that ragdolling him alone would be enough to beat him. I said that it could stun or disrupt him long enough to leave him vulnerable for a KO/fatal hit. Getting force lifted and thrown into a wall might not do any serious damage to Loki, but it will leave him open to an attack that could.
Wrong, it will do no damage to Loki. Loki withstood getting pummeled by both Thor and Hulk in the Avengers, what makes you think Sidious can do any worse to him?
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

Firstly, tell me how Loki is going to get Sidious into a position to where he can do his mind magic thing when Sidious can fling him back, with the force, whenever he pleases. Or prove that he is fast enough to get him into that position, to begin with. Then prove that the scepter's mind control powers will work on a being like Sidious, with his own abilities and powerset. And I have already addressed the illusions in another post to someone else.

Trick him with a copy, and then get in close enough. Loki can also go intangible as seen when he tricked Thor into the anti-Hulk cage. Loki's versatility more than matches up to Sidious, and he completely outclasses him physically.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

Basically, once you can tell me how Loki is going to overcome being force lifted (where physical strength means nothing) and flung around every time Sidious feels like it, then there is an argument for Loki beating Sidious.
Loki wins. Deal with it, fanboy.

Why do you people keep saying that the spear has the Mind Gem in it when that is purely speculation at this point? Fact is that movie Loki would get owned by Sidious, he's actually presented as a bit of a joke in the MCU if you ask me. Gets outsmarted and beat up or at least shown up by just about everybody, especially in Avengers. His only way of levelling the playing field is through planning and trickery and Sidious is better at both, the Force will allow him to see through any sort of trick that Loki could conjure.

Originally posted by Epicurus
No he doesn't. Loki was literally shown to possess superhuman reflexes. Heck, in Agents of SHIELD, a lower-level Asgardian has superstrength and speed.

And Sidious has shown speed and reflexes at least as fast Loki has, in terms of direct combat. And what do you call deflecting blaster bolts? Human level reflexes?

But I get it. You want to use a low end showing, outside of direct combat, for Sidious (when Vader betrayed him), and a high end feat for Loki, and use those as a means of comparing their relative combat speed. Instead of using the more consistent showings for both. Because that is totally fair and objective.

Originally posted by Epicurus

I read it sure, and it was a load of baloney. I have rarely seen any of this precog nonsense which you Starwars fanboy spout about in actual combat scenes from the movies themselves.

So you haven't watched any Star Wars films or the Clone Wars properly? Good to know. Every time a force user deflects a blaster bolt is an example of force precog, senses and reflexes. But go ahead and ignore that and claim that force precognition doesn't actually exist.


Originally posted by Epicurus

I did, and it's an outright lie, since we do actually SEE him use the f*cking thing.

I am talking about SIDIOUS, genius. How the hell can you not follow that? I have been talking about SIDIOUS this whole time. You have to have the comprehension skills of a 5-year-old to not get that. I have specifically talked about speculating whether SIDIOUS can use the more exotic functions of the spear (and why I said it would obviously never happen, because they are 2 separate universes), but pointed out that even if SIDIOUS cannot use the more exotic functions, he can still use it as a spear with a blade at the end, if he happens to disarm Loki via force TK.


Originally posted by Epicurus

Did you watch some special edition version of the film which left out large segments of the film? Because we see him use it to mind-control his victims, we see him use it to create mirage copies, we see him use it to barricade the civilian population in Germany, we see him use its energy blasts etc.

See above about your lack of comprehension skills.

Originally posted by Epicurus

He can try that tactic all he wants, Loki won't be killed by it anyways, and the spear will f*ck him up as it was doing so to the Avengers in the Hellicarrier.

Prove that Loki can survive a lethal strike by the spear. You accuse me of making things up and twisting things, but now you are making completely baseless assumptions. And LOL at trying to claim that because the spear made the Avengers close to it agitated that it will mind **** Sidious.

Originally posted by Epicurus

With his fists.

You still haven't told me how he is going to overcome force tk. This is the point I am constantly bringing up, and you are ignoring.


Originally posted by Epicurus

No, that's your MO. Along with lying and twisting sh1t out of context, it seems.

I haven't lied or made anything up. You are just incapable of reading properly it seems. And you ARE ignoring the force tk point.

Originally posted by Epicurus

Wrong, it will do no damage to Loki. Loki withstood getting pummeled by both Thor and Hulk in the Avengers, what makes you think Sidious can do any worse to him?

Are you stupid? Or do you just roughly scan what I write, without actually making sure of what you are reading? I never made the claim that it will definitively hurt him. But acting as though being lifted and thrown about won't have an adverse effect on his rhythm and defenses, or possibly leave him open, in combat is being completely biased.

Originally posted by Epicurus

Trick him with a copy, and then get in close enough. Loki can also go intangible as seen when he tricked Thor into the anti-Hulk cage. Loki's versatility more than matches up to Sidious, and he completely outclasses him physically.

Force users can sense things and people via the force. There have been examples of Jedi training blindfolded and relying on the force to see where the danger is coming from. There are examples of force users sensing danger over great distances. Force users have active precog, which is showcased throughout all the films, and the Clone Wars series, but we have established that you haven't watched any of it properly. And he didn't go intangible. It was an illusion, just like the ones he uses throughout all the films.

And in strength and durability Loki has the advantage. You are the only one who believes he completely outclasses Sidious in speed, agility and reflexes. Which you still haven't provided evidence for.


Originally posted by Epicurus

Loki wins. Deal with it, fanboy.

Loki loses. He still doesn't have an answer for force tk, which you conveniently keep ignoring. Based on their consistent combat showings, he isn't faster or more agile. And this Mind Gem business is pure speculation.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
There is nothing he force can do to hurt Loki.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aE_CVWMWK74#t=371

^ Maul alone is able to telekinetically drag a large Jedi shuttle without visible effort. Savage has similar TK feats to his name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-7hBZNsPnyg#t=106

^ Here, Sidious hurls and pins both of them to the throne room windows. You'll note that the Zabraks are tensing, squirming, and struggling to throw off his hold, damaging the window further in their efforts. And yet Sidious is able to restrain them casually, indicating he's vastly above their combined weight class as a telekinetic.

Sidious will be able to ragdoll Loki as utterly as the Hulk.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
He is two durable and he can teleport, He can turn invisible, he can make Palp his puppet with the infinity gem.

We have no reason to believe that Loki can enthrall Sidious with his staff (unless, of course, he manages to touch him with it). Dooku was able to fend off three invisible lightsaber-wielding Nightsisters while blinded in Star Wars: The Clone Wars thanks to precognition, clairvoyance, and superhuman senses, so I'm not sure why Sidious, Dooku's superior in all things, would be unable to do so against Loki. And I don't remember Loki teleporting; when did he do that?

I'll concede that Loki probably has an edge in raw strength and durability, but that's it. Sidious is, at the very least, in Loki's league in terms of speed, reflexes, and agility. More importantly, he's an extremely powerful telekinetic. Sidious will reach out, snare Loki with the Force, and beat him into utter submission.

Tried to embed the youtube videos with the timestamps, but couldn't get the formatting right. The links should work, though.

Your own videos you posted show Sideious barely doing any damage to Maul. Yes he hurls them against a wall. It does not even hurt them. How will that hurt Loki. I see nothing of his enemies being turned into a rag doll. What are you trying to suggest that Sideious will fight out of character and just keep trying to force push Loki around? If so he can just teleport away, into a multi projection Hologram and then touch Sidious with the mind gem and its game over.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Your own videos you posted show Sideious barely doing any damage to Maul. Yes he hurls them against a wall. It does not even hurt them. How will that hurt Loki


Because Maul has natural Force defenses. Loki does not.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Because Maul has natural Force defenses. Loki does not.

True but what about his godly durability and the things he has survived? Has Maul survived worse? Unless Sideious is sitting there tossing ships on him, I don't see the real damage to Loki if you know what I mean.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
True but what about his godly durability and the things he has survived? Has Maul survived worse? Unless Sideious is sitting there tossing ships on him, I don't see the real damage to Loki if you know what I mean.


True but don't underestimate how much of a wallop a Force Blast has.

A Force Blast from Maul caused a cave in. A Force Lightning Blast from Dooku caused an explosion on the cave wall. A force Blast from Mace Windu completely crushed several droids including 2 of those Destroyer Droids. And Sidious's Force powers are above all of those Jedi/Sith.

But yeah Loki is mad durable, so I can imagine it would take some time to beat him down. I also think a Lightsaber would be capable of cutting him, so enough slashes will do him damage Imo.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
True but don't underestimate how much of a wallop a Force Blast has.



I guess I am having trouble coming to terms with this because it does not appear to be over the blast of the bi frost explosion which didn't even hurt him. Truth be told, comparing cross genera should be in All versus, I feel they are misplaced here. People have different of opinions.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I guess I am having trouble coming to terms with this because it does not appear to be over the blast of the bi frost explosion which didn't even hurt him. Truth be told, comparing cross genera should be in All versus, I feel they are misplaced here. People have different of opinions.


There is that, but then Iron Man's repulsor blast knocks him down.

I don't know, I'd have to think about it and watch all the movies again to decide if anything a Jedi has can hurt Loki. I'm guessing a Lightsaber should cut him.

I'm also guessing a Force choke should choke on his insides should effect him in some way.

But like you said with the cross genre thing these things are hard to determine.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Your own videos you posted show Sideious barely doing any damage to Maul. Yes he hurls them against a wall. It does not even hurt them.



Did you not hear the insidious cackling? Sidious wasn't trying to kill them nor was he trying to hurt them with the Force push. He restrains them effortlessly and then voluntarily releases them, allowing them to arm themselves and engage him, to illustrate the point: He's the cat, they're mice, and he's going to play with his food before he eats it.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
How will that hurt Loki. I see nothing of his enemies being turned into a rag doll. What are you trying to suggest that Sideious will fight out of character and just keep trying to force push Loki around? If so he can just teleport away, into a multi projection Hologram and then touch Sidious with the mind gem and its game over.

Maul and Savage ragdoll their enemies and can effortlessly move large starships. Sidious effortlessly restrains both of them at the same time despite their visible concerted effort to free themselves. It follows, then, that Sidious has the means to ragdoll people as he sees fit. The fact that he didn't squish Maul and Savage into paste because he was actively courting battle doesn't change the very clearly communicated fact that he could have had he wanted to.

And debating "in-character" as the phrase is often used around here is pretty stupid. We debate what a character is capable of doing to another character when both are seeking to incapacitate or kill. We don't script fights or rely on narrative devices and tropes like Plot Induced Stupidity or whatnot. We might as well say that Loki will always lose a fight to Phil Coulson because Loki is prone to arrogant monologues, taunts, and Hannibal Lectures that often enable the heroes to get the better of him.

Loki has shown no defense against the Force and doesn't have the feats to suggest the strength or durability to withstand Sidious telekinetically beating him into any and every hard surface in the vicinity.

Physically, Sidious has the means to defend himself by way of comparable speed, agility, reflexes, and impressive strength and durability in his own right. But metaphysically? He can relieve Loki of his scepter at his leisure and beat him into submission.

Now, I'll ask you again: when did Loki teleport? I don't remember it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


Did you not hear the insidious cackling? Sidious wasn't trying to kill them nor was he trying to hurt them with the Force push. He restrains them effortlessly and then voluntarily releases them, allowing them to arm themselves and engage him, to illustrate the point: He's the cat, they're mice, and he's going to play with his food before he eats it.



Maul and Savage ragdoll their enemies and can effortlessly move large starships. Sidious effortlessly restrains both of them at the same time despite their visible concerted effort to free themselves. It follows, then, that Sidious has the means to ragdoll people as he sees fit. The fact that he didn't squish Maul and Savage into paste because he was actively courting battle doesn't change the very clearly communicated fact that he could have had he wanted to.

And debating "in-character" as the phrase is often used around here is pretty stupid. We debate what a character is capable of doing to another character when both are seeking to incapacitate or kill. We don't script fights or rely on narrative devices and tropes like Plot Induced Stupidity or whatnot. We might as well say that Loki will always lose a fight to Phil Coulson because Loki is prone to arrogant monologues, taunts, and Hannibal Lectures that often enable the heroes to get the better of him.

Loki has shown no defense against the Force and doesn't have the feats to suggest the strength or durability to withstand Sidious telekinetically beating him into any and every hard surface in the vicinity.

Physically, Sidious has the means to defend himself by way of comparable speed, agility, reflexes, and impressive strength and durability in his own right. But metaphysically? He can relieve Loki of his scepter at his leisure and beat him into submission.

Now, I'll ask you again: when did Loki teleport? I don't remember it.

He teleported into Shieds base when Thor was prisoner. He also Teleported out of the chamber he was in on the helli carrier and tricked Thor into coming in.

That was an astral projection, not a literal physical manifestation and the second example was an illusion. He's never teleported.

This thread is almost as funny as the Thor Vs Palpatine thread.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That was an astral projection, not a literal physical manifestation and the second example was an illusion. He's never teleported.

He teleported out of the holding cell.

How did he get out of the holding cell to set the trap for Thor. He teleported out, opened it up made an illusion of him standing in the door, Thor jumped on him to push him back in and he was trapped. It was a teleport.

No, it wasn't. Rewatch the scene: there's a merc present when Loki tricks Thor. The merc released Loki, Loki sets up an illusion, Thor tackles it and is trapped inside. No teleportation implied or required.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, it wasn't. Rewatch the scene: there's a merc present when Loki tricks Thor. The merc released Loki, Loki sets up an illusion, Thor tackles it and is trapped inside. No teleportation implied or required.

That still doesn't explain how he got out..

The mercenary... let him out.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The mercenary... let him out.

PROVE THAT MERC HAD RELEASE-LOKI-OUT-OF-PRISON POWAHS!

WHAT DO YOU CALL THOSE THINGS AT THE END OF HIS ARMS BRO

Hahaha, I actually really thought he teleported out, memory hazy on the merc letting him out. Wasn't trying to troll.

I dont think Loki ever teleports in MCU, he had illusions make others thing he was one place, when he was actually in another, but thats not teleportation.

Originally posted by Robtard
Speed blitzing multiple Jedi and slaughtering them in a few seconds. Which is what he does here to Loki, just a little quicker, since he only has to kill one person.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/70453/1394717-ks65555xo5.gif

Do you think Loki could take on these four and kill three in a matter of seconds before they can react?

Loki is one tough badass, but he has just being that...one tough punching bag.

Originally posted by Robtard
Speed blitzing multiple Jedi and slaughtering them in a few seconds. Which is what he does here to Loki, just a little quicker, since he only has to kill one person.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/70453/1394717-ks65555xo5.gif

Do you think Loki could take on these four and kill three in a matter of seconds before they can react? If they fight like they did when Palpatine slaughtered them?

Yeah.

Yeah he really could.

if loki had a lightsaber, its probable

Originally posted by NemeBro
If they fight like they did when Palpatine slaughtered them?

Yeah.

Yeah he really could. Well thats true lol. The first two would get owned by scepter lol. They just kind of just stood there like complete idiots.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
He can relieve Loki of his scepter at his leisure and beat him into submission.




Damn So obvious yet I never even thought of that. Won't matter how durable Loki is if Sidious can use his own Scepter on him. A scepter plus Lightsaber dual wielding Sidious..


Originally posted by Zack Fair
Well thats true lol. The first two would get owned by scepter lol. They just kind of just stood there like complete idiots.


Put that down to artistic crappery. Definitely the worst moment in ROTS.

They made the Sidious vs Jedi Masters kill much better in The Clone Wars. Its blurred and only for a few seconds, but gave the impression of speed.

zJZ5ikpqMGU

Okay, I rewatched Clone Wars. Sidious definitely seems to have the better offensive feats, but Loki survived the Bifrost explosion, not to mention the Dark World feats, so I am not sure whether Sidious could actually put him down for the count. However his versatility and abilities are certainly much better proven in direct combat so I change my vote to him for now.

Yeah Loki is without doubt more durable.

Oh definitely. Based on screenfeats, Loki is one of the most durable characters shown in the MCU. This is why I am still not convinced that a saber could just cut through him. Maintained pressure or repeated blows, sure. But not quick, clean strikes.

However, Sidious really does get a MASSIVE upgrade feats wise, in the Clone Wars. Not only in physical stats (being displayed as much faster, skilled, agile etc. as well as having the strength to easily perform one armed blocks against guys like Savage and Maul), but he has niftier force feats too, like choking and lifting 2 people at once while not being anywhere near them, or even seeing them. So I still see his level of force tk still being a problem for Loki to deal with, even if it doesn't do any lasting damage. And if he tk disarms Loki and attacks him with his own spear, Loki is ****ed.

The animated series, for me, did what RotS failied to do. Actually make Sidious look like the powerful Sith Lord he is supposed to be.

Loki, on the other hand, is one of the many characters to have their abilities MASSIVELY watered down in the movies. I mean all the heavy hitters got the short end, but he really got robbed. Went from the most powerful sorcerer in Asgard to a guy who can cast illusions, astral project, and has one feat of low level tk. If they were going to take so much of his magic away, they should have given him more consistent showings using his Frost Giant powers. Frost giants have been shown creating blades, projectiles etc. strong enough to harm Asgardians with their ice, and Loki has had large chunk of Thor, Thor 2, the Avengers, and the time between Thor and the Avengers to develop these powers. But he only ever shows basic ice powers while in possession of the Cask of Ancient Winters, never again before or after that. It's lame as shit. They should expand his powerset for future appearances.

Loki wins. Deal with it fanboys.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Loki wins. Deal with it fanboys.

Well, I'm convinced. Well said, quan. Well said.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well, I'm convinced. Well said, quan. Well said. Sometimes you nerds need a stern hand.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Sometimes you nerds need a stern hand.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Put that down to artistic crappery. Definitely the worst moment in ROTS. People give Bane and Batman shit due to shitty choreography and disregard feats because of it. Why shouldn't we for Sidious?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Loki wins. Deal with it fanboys.

Based on?

You haven't brought anything to Loki's side of the argument, nor have you countered anything people have brought up in favour of Sidious. So how about addressing the points raised in the thread, before making a claim to the outcome.

Originally posted by NemeBro
People give Bane and Batman shit due to shitty choreography and disregard feats because of it. Why shouldn't we for Sidious?

I used to give Sidious shit because he looked slow and clunky in his fights in RotS. Luckily, we now also of Clone Wars to do a better job of portraying his abilities, as well as the Jedi Master killing feat.

Sadly, Nolan's Batman and Bane do not get a cartoon series to make them look more badass.

Well that and, the novelisation's portrayal of the Sidious vs Windu fight

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Well that and, the novelisation's portrayal of the Sidious vs Windu fight Novilisations don't count. If you want to discuss books goto the SW vs section. Also if we do books Sidiouss power multiplies a lot. I would like to see Loki defend against Sidious's force storms. But to even the table Lokis comic books would boost him crazy amounts too......hmmmmmm that would be interesting. All material Sidious vs all material Loki

I was referring to the ROTS novelisation, not any of the EU stuff