Kisame vs Kenpachi

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Trocity
Setting is Cell games battlefield ( I usually use this because it is neutral, though Kisame can just turn the field to water )



Kenny has eye patch to begin with, can remove it if need be. Samehada reacts to Reiatsu as it would Chakra.

yungz22
Kenpachi he has moore feats and is faster than kisame

Trocity
Kisame being able to alter the battlefield to his advantage surely helps him in that area. Kisame is able to keep up with Itachi's shunshin and he can pose Kenny a lot of threats if he merges with Samehada in water. I thought it was a relatively fun fight because of Kisame's techniques/sword, I doubt it's clear cut either way.

pym-ftw
Kisame probably wins, but we have never seen Kenpachi fully drained so idk.

yungz22
Originally posted by Trocity
Kisame being able to alter the battlefield to his advantage surely helps him in that area. Kisame is able to keep up with Itachi's shunshin and he can pose Kenny a lot of threats if he merges with Samehada in water. I thought it was a relatively fun fight because of Kisame's techniques/sword, I doubt it's clear cut either way.

Kisame and itachi never fought so how do you figure that.

pym-ftw
They fought/trained prior to itachi vs Sasuke.

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
They fought/trained prior to itachi vs Sasuke.


Thats speculation there is nothing on panel of both of them showcasing speed.

yungz22
Kenpachi cut a meteor in half kisame has no feats that are even close to that

RaventheOnly
Kenpachi's presence is destructive, I doubt water will have much effect on him. The closer to death he gets the stronger he becomes. smile

dadudemon
Based on feasts, he could just flex his reiatsu and blow the lake of water away.

SSJGGogeta
Well also based on feats, that wouldn't work considering that Killer Bee in eight tails mode wasn't able to, and he's as strong as, or stronger than Kenpachi. Unless you're forgetting that each of the Biju was able to stomp Madara, a character with a double meteor feat, which is obviously superior to Kenny's.

Either way, I think that Kenny is a terrible choice to fight Kisame. From what we've seen, he's not really good at fighting when he's drained. Unohana killed him several times before his zenkai boost's started making him strong enough to beat her.

Going on a limb, I say because of the two having similar physical abilities, with Kenny being stronger, but Kisame being faster, I'm gonna say Kenny loses here. Kisame's regen and draining abilities are way too much for him here, and the fact that Kenny can drown means he doesn't have long to try and win anyway, even if he could.

yungz22
What speed feat does kisame have that puts him on par with kenpachi and kisame cant regenerate limbs so his healing factor is sub par at best. Whose to say that samehada wont take a like to kenny once the eye patch comes off.

Kenny's eye patch is very similar to the gates and weve seen kisame lose to gates on many occasions once that explosion of power is released

Blazing Storm
Kenpachi can **** with guys like Current Naruto and Madara.

Let alone friggin Kisame

Originally posted by yungz22
Kenpachi cut a meteor in half kisame has no feats that are even close to that Not just in half, but a thousand pieces

dadudemon
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Well also based on feats, that wouldn't work considering that Killer Bee in eight tails mode wasn't able to, and he's as strong as, or stronger than Kenpachi. Unless you're forgetting that each of the Biju was able to stomp Madara, a character with a double meteor feat, which is obviously superior to Kenny's.

Either way, I think that Kenny is a terrible choice to fight Kisame. From what we've seen, he's not really good at fighting when he's drained. Unohana killed him several times before his zenkai boost's started making him strong enough to beat her.

Going on a limb, I say because of the two having similar physical abilities, with Kenny being stronger, but Kisame being faster, I'm gonna say Kenny loses here. Kisame's regen and draining abilities are way too much for him here, and the fact that Kenny can drown means he doesn't have long to try and win anyway, even if he could.


I said "based on feasts."


Based. On. Feasts. no expression


Dammit.


no expression


What is wrong with me?

1234

AuraAngel
You are hungry?

pym-ftw
Originally posted by yungz22
Thats speculation there is nothing on panel of both of them showcasing speed. ... so they train at a crawl? Idk this seems like a dumb argument. Ic Kenpachi doesn't blitz ever period. Originally posted by yungz22
What speed feat does kisame have that puts him on par with kenpachi and kisame cant regenerate limbs so his healing factor is sub par at best. Whose to say that samehada wont take a like to kenny once the eye patch comes off.

Kenny's eye patch is very similar to the gates and weve seen kisame lose to gates on many occasions once that explosion of power is released This seems like a legit argument but i never liked that part in the manga so...lol

Kisame can keep up with Gai who in turn is a much faster opponent than Kenpachi. Also lol at the eyepatch being equal to the Eight gates, maybe the first few but not all 8.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
What speed feat does kisame have that puts him on par with kenpachi and kisame cant regenerate limbs so his healing factor is sub par at best. Whose to say that samehada wont take a like to kenny once the eye patch comes off.

Kenny's eye patch is very similar to the gates and weve seen kisame lose to gates on many occasions once that explosion of power is released

Uh, Blitzing Killer Bee in the water. Killer Bee >= Raikage in terms of speed. Either way, Raikage, and to a further extent Killer Bee, has lightning+ speed, something Kenny can't even compare to.

Since when can't Kisame regenerate limbs? He regenerated his entire torso, including his internal organs. His regeneration is better than Ulquiorra's.

No one can say that, but we can say that, going by his history, Samehada would still like Kisame's better, not to mention that would be pure speculation.

The gates? How is an explosion similar to the gates? You're making shit up, pal. Nigh every character in action series can make explosions with their aura.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Kenpachi can **** with guys like Current Naruto and Madara.

Let alone friggin Kisame

Not just in half, but a thousand pieces

You're retarded.

Kenny is meteor level, based on his ABSOLUTE BEST FEAT.

Naruto is continent-moon level, based on several of his.

Kakashi solo's Bleach.

Blazing Storm
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You're retarded.Still throwing insults as usual.

Concession accepted

How is Naruto continent/moon level when his best feat is also destroying a meteor?

He was also afraid of f**king lava

No he doesn't.

Juhabach solos Naruto

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You're retarded.

Kenny is meteor level, based on his ABSOLUTE BEST FEAT.

Naruto is continent-moon level, based on several of his.

Kakashi solo's Bleach.



Naruto doesnt have any dc feats on his own that surpass kenpachi' meteor busting feat

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
... so they train at a crawl? Idk this seems like a dumb argument. Ic Kenpachi doesn't blitz ever period. This seems like a legit argument but i never liked that part in the manga so...lol

Kisame can keep up with Gai who in turn is a much faster opponent than Kenpachi. Also lol at the eyepatch being equal to the Eight gates, maybe the first few but not all 8.


Just because theyve trained together (which by the way isnt confirmed theyve just done missions together thats it) does mean they are equal in speed..Thats like saying usain bolt's teammates are all as fast as him just because they train together which isnt the case at all



Kisame has never kept up with gai once any gate is opened idk what manga your reading.

socool8520
Originally posted by yungz22
Kisame has never kept up with gai once any gate is opened idk what manga your reading.

The fact that he was able to fight on equal footing with Gai until like gate 7 says alot about how he can handle a significant speed difference.

yungz22
Originally posted by socool8520
The fact that he was able to fight on equal footing with Gai until like gate 7 says alot about how he can handle a significant speed difference.



What? gai opened gate 4 and kisame couldnt keep up. What do you think would happen whrh he fights kenny and kenny takes of the eye patch

socool8520
He uses the 6th gate the first time they fought and neither person won and then he had to go seventh gate to defeat him on that turtle island. What are you referring to?

yungz22
Originally posted by socool8520
He uses the 6th gate the first time they fought and neither person won and then he had to go seventh gate to defeat him on that turtle island. What are you referring to?

What do you mean neither person won both times they fought gai won. Once gates open kisame stands no chance.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Still throwing insults as usual.

Concession accepted

How is Naruto continent/moon level when his best feat is also destroying a meteor?

He was also afraid of f**king lava

No he doesn't.

Juhabach solos Naruto

Still avoiding a debate because you're not smart enough to actually prove something.

Concession accepted.

Naruto's best feats are 1. Ripping the arm off of the mother of god, who has over moon level durability, 2. Cutting a continent sized tree in half with one attack, and 3. Fighting on par with someone who is stronger than Hagaromo.

When was he afraid of lava? He wasn't. Sakura and Kakashi were.

Juhaback gets raped by Kakashi. Who has perfect Susano'o. Which has feats capable of stomping the entire series of Bleach.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
What do you mean neither person won both times they fought gai won. Once gates open kisame stands no chance.

What? Gai had to use 7 of the eight gates to kill Kisame, who wasn't even full power OR in his shark skin form.

That's like when Yajirobe cut Vegeta when he was almost dead.

RaventheOnly
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Still avoiding a debate because you're not smart enough to actually prove something.

Concession accepted.

Naruto's best feats are 1. Ripping the arm off of the mother of god, who has over moon level durability, 2. Cutting a continent sized tree in half with one attack, and 3. Fighting on par with someone who is stronger than Hagaromo.

When was he afraid of lava? He wasn't. Sakura and Kakashi were.

Juhaback gets raped by Kakashi. Who has perfect Susano'o. Which has feats capable of stomping the entire series of Bleach.

You are talking when Naruto is literally in god mode, that in its present state makes the universe abilities against literally a god who created ninjitsu. You can't exactly compare gods if we are talking the normal range of ability because you can just make up anything no expression We aren't arguing Ichigo against Aizen in Mugetsu here because technically Aizen fused with the Hogyoku is comparable to god like powers. We are talking Kenpachi who at his highest feat doesn't even have bankai but can still cut a meteor that was going to destroy the seireitei, which is a city. He barely learned his Shikai which is LITERALLY the ability to cut ANYTHING. Kisame just evades everything and hides in water attacking when his enemy is unable to retaliate. He doesn't have any serious feats other than making a water dome, summoning sharks, and stealing peoples chakra with his sword to heal himself.

If you hit Kisame before he can heal himself he is done pretty much done, which is what beats him; which the ability to cut anything means hes done once he comes in melee range. If he drowned Kenpachi who probably would just blast the water away with his own reitsu that might be difficult.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
You are talking when Naruto is literally in god mode, that in its present state makes the universe abilities against literally a god who created ninjitsu. You can't exactly compare gods if we are talking the normal range of ability because you can just make up anything no expression We aren't arguing Ichigo against Aizen in Mugetsu here because technically Aizen fused with the Hogyoku is comparable to god like powers. We are talking Kenpachi who at his highest feat doesn't even have bankai but can still cut a meteor that was going to destroy the seireitei, which is a city. He barely learned his Shikai which is LITERALLY the ability to cut ANYTHING. Kisame just evades everything and hides in water attacking when his enemy is unable to retaliate. He doesn't have any serious feats other than making a water dome, summoning sharks, and stealing peoples chakra with his sword to heal himself.

If you hit Kisame before he can heal himself he is done pretty much done, which is what beats him; which the ability to cut anything means hes done once he comes in melee range. If he drowned Kenpachi who probably would just blast the water away with his own reitsu that might be difficult.

I was responding to his statement that Juha Bach would solo Naruto's series. no expression It's clear that that's nowhere near true, as Naruto would literally eat the entire Bleach series. That god tree feat was actually in base form though.

Statements, necessarily =/= feats. Kenny's sword can "cut anything", but I remember when Aizen was an unbeatable god, when Yoroichi was the fastest soul reaper to ever live, when Yamamoto was unbeatable, when Kenpachi was un-killable, yada, yada, yada. Statements tend to be exaggerated in Bleach, and get disproven a lot.

Well true, but Kisame doesn't need ridiculous strength feats. He's strong enough to fight on par physically with power houses on par with Raikage and Tsunade. He should be plenty able to at go toe to toe with Kenpachi. He also has feats of draining chakra, and killing, even though he isn't that strong. He makes up for his lack of attack power with his speed and abilities. Killer Bee, who was comparable in destructive power to Kenny, was totally unable to blow away the water dome. Kenny could do no such thing, given the feats of the two. Not to mention that he would be even slower under water, be unable to breath, and Kisame would be much faster, stronger, durable and able to stay indefinitely there.

Oh, and just fyi, Kisame can regenerate instantly when fused with Samehada.

RaventheOnly
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I was responding to his statement that Juha Bach would solo Naruto's series. no expression It's clear that that's nowhere near true, as Naruto would literally eat the entire Bleach series. That god tree feat was actually in base form though.

Statements, necessarily =/= feats. Kenny's sword can "cut anything", but I remember when Aizen was an unbeatable god, when Yoroichi was the fastest soul reaper to ever live, when Yamamoto was unbeatable, when Kenpachi was un-killable, yada, yada, yada. Statements tend to be exaggerated in Bleach, and get disproven a lot.

Well true, but Kisame doesn't need ridiculous strength feats. He's strong enough to fight on par physically with power houses on par with Raikage and Tsunade. He should be plenty able to at go toe to toe with Kenpachi. He also has feats of draining chakra, and killing, even though he isn't that strong. He makes up for his lack of attack power with his speed and abilities. Killer Bee, who was comparable in destructive power to Kenny, was totally unable to blow away the water dome. Kenny could do no such thing, given the feats of the two. Not to mention that he would be even slower under water, be unable to breath, and Kisame would be much faster, stronger, durable and able to stay indefinitely there.

Oh, and just fyi, Kisame can regenerate instantly when fused with Samehada.

Juha Bach we don't even know the extent of him at all. We just know that he steals the power of all the relatives that are related to him when they die. That is it. The Spirit King we know must be God like because his subordinate sinigami have god like powers to contribute to reality, but that is all we know. The tree is just a tool used by the goddess chick who caused ninjitsu to come into existence which all it does is suck all the chakra out of people and make them zetsus which we don't really know anything about.

Well there are certain aspects of Bleach that are absolute for its premise. The Shinigami's shikai abilities are aspects of reality/death and the statement specifically is that Kenpachi's Shikia in its now released form can cut anything. The other statements were just perceptions. Aizen however, is unkillable; he was beatable because that is what he desired from the Hogyouku that he find a worthy challenge, but thats it. The concept that he is unkillable is a premise like Kenpachis sword that cuts reality. Regardless of speed or strength Kisame has proven that in hand to hand he is vulnerable to destructive melee and his healing requires that the sword have absorbed enough and it isn't that fast as he has to temporarily stop attacking. KEnpachi would probably force him into melee and let him absorb all the spirit energy he wants as he has almost unlimited power then when he heals in arrogance after multiple times slice him in half and its over.

Blazing Storm
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Still avoiding a debate because you're not smart enough to actually prove something.

Concession accepted.You are the one who always runs away from debates. I dont need to mention how many times you got owned by me and ran away from Bleach debates

Prove that her durability is moon level.

Show scans, instead of spouting bullshit

That tree barely rises above the clouds: http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130920204543/naruto/es/images/0/09/Forma_Total_de_Shinju.png

Island sized at most

Lol continent

Except that Naruto has only a part of Hagoromo's powers.

You just shot yourself in the foot, the moment you said he's on par with someone stronger than Hagoromo.

http://i4.mangapanda.com/naruto/680/naruto-4999041.jpg

Sasuke had to save Naruto from the lava, or else he would have been burned to a crisp.

What has perfect susanoo done? Absolutely nothing.

Juhabach has 15 million degrees, reality warping, and 25 different Sternritter's abilities.

Gremmy alone would beat almost all Naruto characters one on one by dropping an Island sized meteor over them. And he's only a high tier

yungz22
Bee wasnt even able to go all out against kisame because be was fighting while protecting his enka sensei for more than half the fight and also trying to hide from his brother..... Had he been able to go all out i think he would have beaten kisame..... If you think about it kisame has never dodge any off bees up close attacks so idk why gogeta thinks hell ve dodgeing kenpachi's


Bleach characters specialize in close combat

Trocity
With some of these threads I'm trying to figure out exactly which universe holds the advantage. I feel like whether people realize it or not, most of them feel biased towards their favourite anime and so side with the characters from them in versus fights. I think Bleach holds the overall advantage by quite a wide margin in terms of speed and strength. Some characters from Naruto have hax abilities and have awesome speed feats and can compete but I think Bleach is a tier above. The more I think about it, the less I think Kisame would be able to even affect Kenpachi. He could get drained and that could be fatal to him but I doubt it would come to that.

pym-ftw
Outside of Shunpo, what great speed or more accurately reaction feats does bleach have that gives them a speed advantage?

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Outside of Shunpo, what great speed or more accurately reaction feats does bleach have that gives them a speed advantage?


Shunpo is the speed advantage

pym-ftw
It's teleporting though... its cool but like IT its not exactly equivocal with reaction speed. I mean Naruto has a very similar technique in the Body Flicker.

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
It's teleporting though... its cool but like IT its not exactly equivocal with reaction speed. I mean Naruto has a very similar technique in the Body Flicker.


Shunpo/flash step is not teleportation. Its when they takes steps at an extremely fast rate. As a result they cover alot of ground very quickly. Shunsui travelled miles within seconds during the ryoka invasion.


Shunpo is way more potent than body flicker nobody in naruto has demonstrated what shunpo can do. Barring FTG, Kamui

pym-ftw
Naruto crossed a country with it.

Shunpo uses reitsu to launch them forward, its effectively teleportation.

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Naruto crossed a country with it.

Shunpo uses reitsu to launch them forward, its effectively teleportation.


Where did naruto cross a country in an instant what chapter is that..... It even took him a while to get to each battlefield.

Teleportaion is movement through space/time dimensions. Shunpo is not that.

Shunpo has crossed miles faster than anyone innaruto has

pym-ftw
Mount Myoboku to the battle with Pain.

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Mount Myoboku to the battle with Pain.

He was summoned by the grandpa toad. Naruto didnt got there on his own nice try

pym-ftw
Sorry i rechecked i was wrong, it was actually Shima who summoned them though.

Naruto and his team still traverse crazy distances, his first mission had him cross half a country on foot.

RaventheOnly
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Sorry i rechecked i was wrong, it was actually Shima who summoned them though.

Naruto and his team still traverse crazy distances, his first mission had him cross half a country on foot.

But it took like a week+ stick out tongue Honestly in all of Naruto speed itself is never really a major focus unless its like Gai or surprise against totally over powered enemy in combat. It seems in terms of pursuit and travel Naruto/Shippuden show that distance is a major obstacle to action and that it seems like everyone moves it seems at pretty much the same speed. If they could move super lighting fast, why does it take the Akatsuki like several YEARS to gather all the Biju?? smile

In Bleach speed is not a focus either, but there is a clear speed difference when distinguishing between certain characters. Speed in combat is Ichigos Bankais main power, so we see that emphasized in his first release and the difference of that power versus further enemies is given a lot of comparisons to judge from.

Travel itself seems to be about the same for everyone unless there is a serious challenge in terms of time. Like when they are moving from the spirit palace it said that it would take weeks for them to descend the stairs so they use special gear to fall/fly down or when Ichigo is traveling from Huecho Mundo to Karakura town in the end battle of the Arrancar Arc and it painfully takes several episodes for him to get there.

pym-ftw
Because minus Pain, none of the Akatsuki could beat a whole village. laughing out loud

I'm cool with them being roughly equal speedwise.

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Sorry i rechecked i was wrong, it was actually Shima who summoned them though.

Naruto and his team still traverse crazy distances, his first mission had him cross half a country on foot.

Dude it took them forever to get to the bridge. How is that faster than bleach when theyve travelled farther distances in a shorter amount of time

Blazing Storm
Naruto and his team still traverse crazy distances, his first mission had him cross half a country on foot. Crossing half a country in 3 days is not even supersonic

Naruto characters only have reaction speeds, and their movement speeds are shit. They are definitely the slowest in the HST

pym-ftw
erm we are talking his very first feat, currently Naruto is far faster.

Still waiting on these Bleach reaction feats that are above Narto(verse).

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
erm we are talking his very first feat, currently Naruto is far faster.

Still waiting on these Bleach reaction feats that are above Narto(verse).



One could say that as well newly achieve bankai ichigo parried thousands of blades in a couple seconds.

Blazing Storm
Originally posted by pym-ftw
erm we are talking his very first feat, currently Naruto is far faster.
Why even mention his very first feat when its not impressive in the slightest.

Even if Naruto is Mach 1 at that point, we don't know how much faster current Naruto is.



Originally posted by yungz22
One could say that as well newly achieve bankai ichigo parried thousands of blades in a couple seconds. *100 million blades actually

http://i38.mangapanda.com/bleach/301/bleach-2406275.jpg

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Why even mention his very first feat when its not impressive in the slightest.

Even if Naruto is Mach 1 at that point, we don't know how much faster current Naruto is.



*100 million blades actually

http://i38.mangapanda.com/bleach/301/bleach-2406275.jpg

Uh, what? Naruto currently happens to be the fastest character in all of Naruto. Gaara took himself and the other kage across countries on sand piles in a few minutes. Not to mention that Raikage is still lightning+ speed, and Naruto is able to warp at light speed. Sasuke can warp even faster though, instantly with his sharinnegan. Naruto is definitely the FASTEST of the HST.

That feat is TOTAL PIS AND outlier. You're telling me beginning bankai Ichigo, who got owned by Aizen's index finger without even shikai, is able to block all of Byakuya's sword petals, but Zommari, who is a thousand times stronger than the espada Ichigo had to go hollow against, can't block them all? Even though Byakuya didn't get any noticeably stronger? That's retarded, outlier, and can't be taken at face value, OR used to determine Ichigo's later speed. thumb up

pym-ftw
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Why even mention his very first feat when its not impressive in the slightest.

Even if Naruto is Mach 1 at that point, we don't know how much faster current Naruto is.



*100 million blades actually

http://i38.mangapanda.com/bleach/301/bleach-2406275.jpg ...that form one attack, thats like me saying Rock Lee dodged Trillions of grains of sand.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by pym-ftw
...that form one attack, thats like me saying Rock Lee dodged Trillions of grains of sand.

Exactly. Not to mention it's massive outlier.

RaventheOnly
Zommari's weakness is that he was arrogant and that his ability allowed him to only control one thing for each eye which against Bayakuya was pointless.

Ichigo's Bankai when he first released it was weak yes and Aizen's spiritual pressure was far beyond Ichigo's ability to cut through. Its the same as when he first tried to cut Kenpachi.

Ichigo could not touch Bayakuya effectively while the petals were up, all he could do was block them. It wasn't until Byakuya got arrogant and wanted to go one on one; sword to sword which he did one purpose to "lose" to Ichigo to save Rukia.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Zommari's weakness is that he was arrogant and that his ability allowed him to only control one thing for each eye which against Bayakuya was pointless.

Ichigo's Bankai when he first released it was weak yes and Aizen's spiritual pressure was far beyond Ichigo's ability to cut through. Its the same as when he first tried to cut Kenpachi.

Ichigo could not touch Bayakuya effectively while the petals were up, all he could do was block them. It wasn't until Byakuya got arrogant and wanted to go one on one; sword to sword which he did one purpose to "lose" to Ichigo to save Rukia.

Zommari was still a lot stronger than Ichigo OR Byakuya should have been at that point. The fact that he couldn't just use his hierro and slap them all away is stupid, considering his hierro was much stronger than Ichigo's sword at that point, AND he was so much faster. But no, it was, again, PIS.

Not to mention, as pym pointed out, it was just a few streams of the petals. He didn't individually slash each one, nor was it said that he did. He blocked all the petals. You might as well say that Lee did a much more impressive feat blocking Gaara's sand, which is honestly pretty true. Either way, Lee didn't individually hit each of the trillions, upon trillions of grains of sand that would be in Gaara's ocean of sand, and Ichigo didn't hit each of byakuya's petals.

RaventheOnly
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111150906/3838743-bleach-1588674.jpg

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111150906/3838743-bleach-1588674.jpg

"He deflected all of them.", not, "He hit every single petal.".

Again, Lee deflected all of Gaara's sand. Are you saying he hit every grain individually?

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
"He deflected all of them.", not, "He hit every single petal.".

Again, Lee deflected all of Gaara's sand. Are you saying he hit every grain individually?

http://www.mangachapter.net/1193/bleach/163-16.html


Here is ichigo literally swinging his sword at all of them

Blazing Storm
Originally posted by pym-ftw
...that form one attack, thats like me saying Rock Lee dodged Trillions of grains of sand. Rock Lee kicked the sand only once, while we see Ichigo swinging his sword multiple times to cut through the petals

In the actual translation Byakuya says he "CUT THEM ALL down"

http://img.mangastream.to/manga/bleach/163/163-15.jpg



Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Uh, what? Naruto currently happens to be the fastest character in all of Naruto. Gaara took himself and the other kage across countries on sand piles in a few minutes. Not to mention that Raikage is still lightning+ speed, and Naruto is able to warp at light speed. Sasuke can warp even faster though, instantly with his sharinnegan. Naruto is definitely the FASTEST of the HST.Why dont you show scans to back up these claims?

Show me Gaara crossing countries in "minutes" as you claim, and show me Raikage being stated to be lightning speed.

One piece > Bleach >>> Naruto in speed


Ichigo was injured when he got beaten by Aizen's finger, and Aizen has nothing to do with this. So stop bringing up irrelevant stuff

Zommari was never stated to be thousands of times faster than any Espada, and Ichigo only needed to go hollow against grimmjow, who is again stronger than Zommari. So stop bullshitting.

Too bad its not PIS because it happened on panel in the manga and was never contradicted

pym-ftw
Byakuya gathers all his blades together during attacks...

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Rock Lee kicked the sand only once, while we see Ichigo swinging his sword multiple times to cut through the petals

In the actual translation Byakuya says he "CUT THEM ALL down"

http://img.mangastream.to/manga/bleach/163/163-15.jpg



Why dont you show scans to back up these claims?

Show me Gaara crossing countries in "minutes" as you claim, and show me Raikage being stated to be lightning speed.

One piece > Bleach >>> Naruto in speed


Ichigo was injured when he got beaten by Aizen's finger, and Aizen has nothing to do with this. So stop bringing up irrelevant stuff

Zommari was never stated to be thousands of times faster than any Espada, and Ichigo only needed to go hollow against grimmjow, who is again stronger than Zommari. So stop bullshitting.

Too bad its not PIS because it happened on panel in the manga and was never contradicted

Rock Lee hit Gaara's sand MULTIPLE times while penetrating his auto-defense.

"actual" translation? Every other page I look up says "he deflected all of them.". That's what it says. Stop bringing up translation flawed scans to try and add base to your argument. Again, they were bunched up in multiple streams, Ichigo didn't cut each petal individually.

Why do I need to? Have you not read the series? If so, then you can look it up yourself. It's common knowledge.

Btw, One Piece shits on Bleach in speed, and every other stat, just like Naruto does.

Irrelevant? It's not irrelevant that Aizen wouldn't have owned any of the espada without using his sword. He only used his index finger to pwn Ichigo. Who should have been pwned by Byakuya, if Byakuya could stomp Zommari like that.

UH, Ichigo had to go hollow against Dordoni. Not even a ranked espada. He had to be hollow to fight on par with Grimmjow. Zommari would eat Dordoni without ressurecting. Again, it all chocks up to MASSIVE PIS. So stop bullshitting.

Except that it was contradicted by just about everything else that happened. Including Ichigo losing to a primavera without using hollow form, but beating Grimmjow in ressurection with the same form.

Blazing Storm
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Rock Lee hit Gaara's sand MULTIPLE times while penetrating his auto-defense. A single kick from Lee can hit thousands of grains of sand.

While Ichigo is only using a thin sword, and can only cut about 10 of Byakuya's petals at once.


Manga stream translation:

http://img.mangastream.to/manga/bleach/163/163-15.jpg


Because you're the one who made the claim. Where did he cross an entire country and where was it said to be "minutes"?

I can also show you scans of Gaara saying complaining about it taking a long time to cross a few kilometers.

No, Naruto has and will always be the slowest and weakest in the HST.

And its also coming to an end before the other two, so EoS it'll be OP > Bleach >>> Naruto


Grimmjow maybe >>>> Zommari for all we know.

And Ichigo was heavily injured and low on rieatsu when Aizen blocked his sword with a finger. The same Aizen could also crush Grimmjow with just his rieatsu while sitting casually.

Aizen >>> Ichigo > Grimmjow > Byakuya > Zommari.

Except that Dordonii himself says Ichigo could have beat him without going hollow. If you read the manga, its stated that Ichigo used his mask just to show him his true power as Dordonii had asked him to.

Again, Hollow Ichigo > Grimmjow > Zommari >> Dordonii si there's no inconsistency.

pym-ftw
Tbf the entire arc was super convenient for the Captains. They all hard countered the arrancar they fought.

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Rock Lee hit Gaara's sand MULTIPLE times while penetrating his auto-defense.

"actual" translation? Every other page I look up says "he deflected all of them.". That's what it says. Stop bringing up translation flawed scans to try and add base to your argument. Again, they were bunched up in multiple streams, Ichigo didn't cut each petal individually.

Why do I need to? Have you not read the series? If so, then you can look it up yourself. It's common knowledge.

Btw, One Piece shits on Bleach in speed, and every other stat, just like Naruto does.

Irrelevant? It's not irrelevant that Aizen wouldn't have owned any of the espada without using his sword. He only used his index finger to pwn Ichigo. Who should have been pwned by Byakuya, if Byakuya could stomp Zommari like that.

UH, Ichigo had to go hollow against Dordoni. Not even a ranked espada. He had to be hollow to fight on par with Grimmjow. Zommari would eat Dordoni without ressurecting. Again, it all chocks up to MASSIVE PIS. So stop bullshitting.

Except that it was contradicted by just about everything else that happened. Including Ichigo losing to a primavera without using hollow form, but beating Grimmjow in ressurection with the same form.



Idk why you even briought up rock lee nobody said he deflected every grain of sand because he obviously didnt.

http://www.mangachapter.net/1193/bleach/163-16.html Here we have ichigo making strikes at the petals at an alarmingly fast rate. Then the very next page the wielder of the bankai byakuya who knows his sword very well stating that he deflected/cut em all its undisputable that ichigo parried them. This is a hypersonic feat that occured in the manga's early stages imagine how much hes grown in speed since then.

yungz22
Ichigo literally creates after images of himself when he moves hes so fast

pym-ftw
After images aren't really speed based, its just an homage to DBZ. Originally posted by yungz22
Idk why you even briought up rock lee nobody said he deflected every grain of sand because he obviously didnt.

http://www.mangachapter.net/1193/bleach/163-16.html Here we have ichigo making strikes at the petals at an alarmingly fast rate. Then the very next page the wielder of the bankai byakuya who knows his sword very well stating that he deflected/cut em all its undisputable that ichigo parried them. This is a hypersonic feat that occured in the manga's early stages imagine how much hes grown in speed since then. Tbf Ichigo really doesn't seem much more powerful now than at the end of the rescue rukia arc.

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
After images aren't really speed based, its just an homage to DBZ. Tbf Ichigo really doesn't seem much more powerful now than at the end of the rescue rukia arc.

goku stated in db that high speed was involved with after images what are you talking about

Are you saying ichigo both hollow mask versions, ichigo menos form, and dangai ichigo. Are all the same speed?

Also consider the ass whoopin grimmjow gave him and how much stronger ichigo had to become to fight the much faster and stronger opponents like grimmjow, ulquiorra, and aizen.

Youve got to be crazy to say ichigo didnt get faster since fighting byakuya

pym-ftw
Okay what speed do you have to move at to create an after image?

Hollow ichigo is just better controlled, its not any stronger. Grimmjow lost to Plotkai...

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Okay what speed do you have to move at to create an after image?

Hollow ichigo is just better controlled, its not any stronger. Grimmjow lost to Plotkai...

a speed that kisame hast def not reached

Regardless ichigo had to train to be strong enough to even force grimmjow into his release form.

Did you just say hollow ichigo is not stronger than base ichigo? Your credibility for this debate just went out the window.

pym-ftw
Concession accepted on the after image.

I said base Hollow ichigo has never seemed stronger, just better controlled and an increased time allowed.

His mugetsu & super hollow forms are stronger but irrelevant.

Blazing Storm
Originally posted by pym-ftw
I said base Hollow ichigo has never seemed stronger, just better controlled and an increased time allowed.

His mugetsu & super hollow forms are stronger but irrelevant.Which is nonsense because all his physical stats greatly increased whenever he put on his mask

pym-ftw
...Reading comprehension please.

Hollow ichigo seemed just as powerful vs Byakuya as it seemed at any other point minus when going full hollow.

Do you wish to refute this?

Blazing Storm
Originally posted by pym-ftw
...Reading comprehension please.

Hollow ichigo seemed just as powerful vs Byakuya as it seemed at any other point minus when going full hollow.

Do you wish to refute this? How does that matter? Why are you bringing hollow Ichigo against Byakuya

If you get to the point, yungz22 is trying to say Hollow Ichigo against Grimmjow/Ulquiorra/Aizen etc. >>> Normal bankai Ichigo against Byakuya.

Which is true because he mastered his hollowfication only after the SS arc

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Concession accepted on the after image.

I said base Hollow ichigo has never seemed stronger, just better controlled and an increased time allowed.

His mugetsu & super hollow forms are stronger but irrelevant.

How is it a cocession when it proves kisame is nowhere near as fast as any bleach characters kisame has zero speed feats while bleach characters have many.

Rikudo sennin
Originally posted by yungz22
How is it a cocession when it proves kisame is nowhere near as fast as any bleach characters kisame has zero speed feats while bleach characters have many.

Afterimages are trops and unquantifiable.

pym-ftw
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
How does that matter? Why are you bringing hollow Ichigo against Byakuya

If you get to the point, yungz22 is trying to say Hollow Ichigo against Grimmjow/Ulquiorra/Aizen etc. >>> Normal bankai Ichigo against Byakuya.

Which is true because he mastered his hollowfication only after the SS arc Last time I'm explaining my point.

The HOLLOW ICHIGO that fought Byakuya seems roughly equal in power to the HOLLOW ICHIGO that fought Grimmjow in their second fight until Plotkai intervened. Originally posted by yungz22
How is it a cocession when it proves kisame is nowhere near as fast as any bleach characters kisame has zero speed feats while bleach characters have many. because after images don't work like that irl, its like the people who say characters aren't displaying superspeed unless they are surrounded by "speed lines".Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Afterimages are trops and unquantifiable. also this

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Last time I'm explaining my point.

The HOLLOW ICHIGO that fought Byakuya seems roughly equal in power to the HOLLOW ICHIGO that fought Grimmjow in their second fight until Plotkai intervened. because after images don't work like that irl, its like the people who say characters aren't displaying superspeed unless they are surrounded by "speed lines". also this

I was just stating the goku himself said high speeds were involved with after images... Regardless even if you disregard after images kisame still hasnt shown anything that says he can keep up with the speed that most if not all bleach characters have in base mode. Kisame cant even dodge bee

Idk how this is relavent because regardless ichigo's speed andphysical abilities increase when using the mask that is a fact.

What are kisame's speed feats? What has he done that shows he is as fast as ichigo or any other bleach characters

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
A single kick from Lee can hit thousands of grains of sand.

While Ichigo is only using a thin sword, and can only cut about 10 of Byakuya's petals at once.


Manga stream translation:

http://img.mangastream.to/manga/bleach/163/163-15.jpg


Because you're the one who made the claim. Where did he cross an entire country and where was it said to be "minutes"?

I can also show you scans of Gaara saying complaining about it taking a long time to cross a few kilometers.

No, Naruto has and will always be the slowest and weakest in the HST.

And its also coming to an end before the other two, so EoS it'll be OP > Bleach >>> Naruto


Grimmjow maybe >>>> Zommari for all we know.

And Ichigo was heavily injured and low on rieatsu when Aizen blocked his sword with a finger. The same Aizen could also crush Grimmjow with just his rieatsu while sitting casually.

Aizen >>> Ichigo > Grimmjow > Byakuya > Zommari.

Except that Dordonii himself says Ichigo could have beat him without going hollow. If you read the manga, its stated that Ichigo used his mask just to show him his true power as Dordonii had asked him to.

Again, Hollow Ichigo > Grimmjow > Zommari >> Dordonii si there's no inconsistency.

Ten petals? LOL, based on? To calc something like this, you have to take in to consideration the force that he swung at, which would have deflected the petals, as well as the fact that there's NO way he could have hit them to the point where the petals lined up on his sword perfectly each swing. Unless you're also arguing that Lee could have only fit about a hundred grains on his feet while kicking, which still makes him monstrously faster and more impressive than Bankai Ichigo.

http://i33.mangapanda.com/naruto/647/naruto-4461153.jpg

In this panel, the kage were flying via Gaara's sand. They showed up before the god tree could bloom, which was in less than 15 minutes. The time frame wasn't long either between their take off and this moment, because even Katsuyu couldn't relay the message to herself in that time.

You're retarded. I have debunked EVERY SINGLE reason you gave for this, and you still believe it? Again, Naruto has the ABSOLUTE highest destructive AND speed feats of the entire HST. Kaguya solo's OP and Bleach at the same time.

Since when?! Grimmjow is only one tier higher than Zommari. For all we know, Zommari could be even stronger. You're acting as if Grimmjow is vastly stronger than Zommari, when Zommari is actually faster than all of the espada. His own statement.

What? Aizen at that point wasn't able to do that to Komomura. He had to use a monstrously strong Kido to put him down. Grimmjow was only suppressed by Aizen's reiatsu, and it wasn't even that heavily, AND he wasn't ressurected. Either way, you're just trying to nit-pick here, when in fact, given how weak he has proven to be before, Byakuya should have been stomped by Zommari. Even Renji was able to contend with him.

And? He couldn't have shat on Dordoni, like Byakuya did on Zommari(at least when they got serious). Otherwise he would have. Ichigo's own admission was that he should have been fighting seriously the whole time, so he would have wasted less time.

So basically here, going by showings, we would have Hollow Ichigo >>> Bankai Ichigo > Dordoni > Byakuya >>> Zommari.

That's retarded. The PIS in the series makes Dordoni stronger than Zommari, AND Byakuya.

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Ten petals? LOL, based on? To calc something like this, you have to take in to consideration the force that he swung at, which would have deflected the petals, as well as the fact that there's NO way he could have hit them to the point where the petals lined up on his sword perfectly each swing. Unless you're also arguing that Lee could have only fit about a hundred grains on his feet while kicking, which still makes him monstrously faster and more impressive than Bankai Ichigo.

http://i33.mangapanda.com/naruto/647/naruto-4461153.jpg

In this panel, the kage were flying via Gaara's sand. They showed up before the god tree could bloom, which was in less than 15 minutes. The time frame wasn't long either between their take off and this moment, because even Katsuyu couldn't relay the message to herself in that time.

You're retarded. I have debunked EVERY SINGLE reason you gave for this, and you still believe it? Again, Naruto has the ABSOLUTE highest destructive AND speed feats of the entire HST. Kaguya solo's OP and Bleach at the same time.

Since when?! Grimmjow is only one tier higher than Zommari. For all we know, Zommari could be even stronger. You're acting as if Grimmjow is vastly stronger than Zommari, when Zommari is actually faster than all of the espada. His own statement.

What? Aizen at that point wasn't able to do that to Komomura. He had to use a monstrously strong Kido to put him down. Grimmjow was only suppressed by Aizen's reiatsu, and it wasn't even that heavily, AND he wasn't ressurected. Either way, you're just trying to nit-pick here, when in fact, given how weak he has proven to be before, Byakuya should have been stomped by Zommari. Even Renji was able to contend with him.

And? He couldn't have shat on Dordoni, like Byakuya did on Zommari(at least when they got serious). Otherwise he would have. Ichigo's own admission was that he should have been fighting seriously the whole time, so he would have wasted less time.

So basically here, going by showings, we would have Hollow Ichigo >>> Bankai Ichigo > Dordoni > Byakuya >>> Zommari.

That's retarded. The PIS in the series makes Dordoni stronger than Zommari, AND Byakuya.

Who claimed that rock lee hit every grain of sand? And why does this matter.

One could argue that naruto has way more pis than bleach. Almost all of naruto's victories have PIS. In fact his whole life is prewritten through destiny which is PIS in it self. Sasuke has a few but not as much as naruto... Bee, itachi, A would have killed him if not for it. Even his whole decision to become hokage is some PIS sasuke flip flops more than mitt romney

But anyways If it werent for hollowfication ichigo probably would have lost the fight. Byakuya was winning until hollow ichigo took over and gave him that lethal slash across the chest. So byakuya is still stronger than dordonii.

Zommari can say hes the fastest but that doesnt mean we have to believe him unless its backed up by action or his statement is bolstered by one of his peers. For example gremmy peers were actually scared of his power so his claim of being the strongest was bolstered even tho he was a bit dissapointing.


Gaara wasnt a whole country away from the tree. And it did kinda take a few chapters for then to get there from what i can recall it wasnt speedy at all.


Kisame speed feats?

And what dc feat does kisane have that surpasses a meteor being busted by a swing of the sword

Blazing Storm
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Ten petals? LOL, based on? To calc something like this, you have to take in to consideration the force that he swung at, which would have deflected the petals, as well as the fact that there's NO way he could have hit them to the point where the petals lined up on his sword perfectly each swing. Unless you're also arguing that Lee could have only fit about a hundred grains on his feet while kicking, which still makes him monstrously faster and more impressive than Bankai Ichigo.We dont know how many grains of sand Gaara had in his gourd at that time, but we have a number for Byakuya's petals.

And ofcourse ichigo cant cut more than a hundred petals at a time because his sword is extremely thin.

Where are you getting this 15 minutes from? I'm pretty sure you're making this stuff up.

Anyways, crossing a few hundred kilometers in 15 minutes is only supersonic+


No she doesn't. You couldn't even debunk Ulquiorra being country level, and haven't proved Kaguya having country level durability so she's only a mid tier in Bleach.

Probably the same in OP, who are the fastest in the HST

If you wanna talk about hax, there's no way she's beating Juhabach who has 26 different sternritter abilities + 15 million degrees + his own vollstandig.


Grimmjow is 6 and Zommari is 7. Nuff said. 1 rank difference could have a huge gap in power as seen between Ulquiorra and Nnoitra.

Zommari only has the fastest Sonido, but his reaction/combat speed pales in comparision to Grimmjow. Stark is the fastest Espada and probably the strognest.


Except that Aizen also caught Komamura's strike with his bare hand without getting a scratch.

Just because he used a high level kido doesnt mean he definitely needed it to put Koma down. It was just the easier way out.


Do you realise that Aizen was just sitting casually in his chair and wasnt even trying to kill Grimmjow? So don't bring Aizen into this, as he's far above everyone else and can one-shot senior captains with a single slash.

And Byakuya may have gotten stronger between the arcs, and he didn't "stomp" Zommari. His bankai was just best suited to counter his ability (100 million blades >>> power to control 50 things)


Then tell me why Ichigo didnt use his mask immediately when the fight started. Its because he didnt want to go full power right from the start.


From where are you getting Dordonii > Byakuya? Byakuya almost beat Bankai Ichigo in SS before his hollow showed up.

Hollow Ichigo >> Bankai Ichigo = Byakuya > Zommari >> Dordonii > Shikai Ichigo

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
We dont know how many grains of sand Gaara had in his gourd at that time, but we have a number for Byakuya's petals.

And ofcourse ichigo cant cut more than a hundred petals at a time because his sword is extremely thin.

Where are you getting this 15 minutes from? I'm pretty sure you're making this stuff up.

Anyways, crossing a few hundred kilometers in 15 minutes is only supersonic+


No she doesn't. You couldn't even debunk Ulquiorra being country level, and haven't proved Kaguya having country level durability so she's only a mid tier in Bleach.

Probably the same in OP, who are the fastest in the HST

If you wanna talk about hax, there's no way she's beating Juhabach who has 26 different sternritter abilities + 15 million degrees + his own vollstandig.


Grimmjow is 6 and Zommari is 7. Nuff said. 1 rank difference could have a huge gap in power as seen between Ulquiorra and Nnoitra.

Zommari only has the fastest Sonido, but his reaction/combat speed pales in comparision to Grimmjow. Stark is the fastest Espada and probably the strognest.


Except that Aizen also caught Komamura's strike with his bare hand without getting a scratch.

Just because he used a high level kido doesnt mean he definitely needed it to put Koma down. It was just the easier way out.


Do you realise that Aizen was just sitting casually in his chair and wasnt even trying to kill Grimmjow? So don't bring Aizen into this, as he's far above everyone else and can one-shot senior captains with a single slash.

And Byakuya may have gotten stronger between the arcs, and he didn't "stomp" Zommari. His bankai was just best suited to counter his ability (100 million blades >>> power to control 50 things)


Then tell me why Ichigo didnt use his mask immediately when the fight started. Its because he didnt want to go full power right from the start.


From where are you getting Dordonii > Byakuya? Byakuya almost beat Bankai Ichigo in SS before his hollow showed up.

Hollow Ichigo >> Bankai Ichigo = Byakuya > Zommari >> Dordonii > Shikai Ichigo

Uh, we don't have a specific number for how many Ichigo cut. We only have a mistranslated statement. We can still calc from average sand size, and how big Gaara's sand waves were, that Gaara had BILLIONS, if not TRILLIONS, of grains of sand at his disposal.

Uh, what? Read about physics. He could technically cut all of them with one swing if they were lined up, and he was strong enough physically. Not to mention that, technically speaking, his sword has about the same surface area as Lee's foot.

http://i17.mangapanda.com/naruto/647/naruto-4461151.jpg

This is hilarious. You're trying to "debate" with me, but all you're proving is that you haven't even read the series.

http://i22.mangapanda.com/naruto/647/naruto-4461135.jpg

The Kage had been flying at the same rate for a couple minutes, and the God's tree was still barely visible. Take into consideration that 1. They were fighting in separate countries. 2. The God's tree stretched all over the ENTIRE ninja world, from the leaf village, to the cloud village, to the sound, etc., and 3. GAARA CROSSED THIS DISTANCE WHILE CARRYING 4 PEOPLE, IN LESS THAN 15 MINUTES, WHILE INJURED. A few thousand kilometers in less than 15 minutes is 80,150 mph, making Gaara's travel speed over mach 65. That, as I have proven before, is over Aizen's speed without Hogyoku. Actually, about 3 times faster. Not to mention all the superior combat speed feats I can give of Naruto char's, as well as lightning speed+ and LS teleportation.

And Gaara is honestly one of the slowest characters in the whole series.

Oh, but I have. Far too many times, actually. Again, you're basing your argument off of one statement. I can base mine off of many ACTUAL feats. Considering LN was comparable in size to three hills. I can give you the scan again, if you want.

Kaguya's durability is superior to Naruto's destructive power. He created the ten tails by shooting 9 blasts. The ten tails has continent level feats, and Naruto created it just with his collateral damage. Kaguya's durability is, as I have proved countless times, superior to everything in the Bleach verse.

You're stupid. Sasuke has instant transmission.

Uh, even with the exclusion of hax, Kaguya could physically dominate Juha Bach. She would lop his head off before he processed the fight starting. Even if they were equal in speed and strength, for the sake of a thread, there's no way Juha's getting past her dimensional relapsing, her chakra stealing, gravity/density manipulation, teleporting, vaporize touch, etc. She would start the fight by teleporting him to the moon. The end.

Ulquiorra was stronger than any of the other espada. Even Yammy. With his second ressurection, Ulquiorra might as well have been the primavera. Ichigo couldn't even TOUCH Ulquiorra when he went second ressurection, but could cut Yammy with a single getsuga.

Uh, you're stupid. Yes, Grimmjow should be much faster than Zommari, aside from sonido speed, but Stark isn't that strong. He's still weaker than Ulquiorra.

Aizen caught his sword, so what? He blocked Ichigo's with a finger. Except Koma wasn't dead, meaning he obviously DID need it to put him down.

You clearly are too stupid to realize what I was pointing out, so let me make it very clear. Aizen was not much stronger at that point then when he was shown early on, if he was at all. The fact of the matter is that he required a level 90 kido to deal with one of the weaker captains, Komomura. Not to mention that he only dealt with them that easily because of his monstrously hax shikai. Sure he was able to beat them all, but only so casually because of his retarded abilities stacked onto his incredible(for Bleach) strength. The fact of the matter is, that if Byakuya DID get that much stronger, then he should have been capable of at least fighting on par with Aizen, and at that level, should have crapped on Zommari without even using shikai. And, you know, since Ichigo was stronger at that point, he should have dominated Aizen, considering he didn't even use shikai on Ichigo, who was bankai and hollowfied. However, Ichigo got raped. PIS.

Uh, yeah Zommari was not a good counter for Byakuya, but he should have been so physically stronger and faster than him, that he could have used his hierro to wave the petals away. I mean, his skin is harder than steel from swords, so he should have had no trouble tanking Byakuya's bankai.

Um, is that not exactly what I just said? Ichigo crapped on Dordoni with his mask, but required it to beat him, at least effectively enough to progress. Without it, more fighters would have come to Dordoni's aid, and Ichigo would have died. Ichigo was cocky. He didn't want to use his full power right away, because he thought it would be an admission of weakness, and futility on his part. However, that still puts Dordoni around Bankai Ichigo's level. Again, without that kind of MONSTROUS PIS, Dordoni would be stronger than Zommari, because Ichigo is stronger than Byakuya with his mask on, and around his equal in Bankai, as we've seen.

Um, but that list you just made doesn't make sense. Dordoni contended with bankai Ichigo, and forced him to go hollow.

That makes the list like this: Hollow bankai Ichigo >> bankai Ichigo >= Dordoni > Byakuya >> Zommari.

That's retarded, and goes to show that statements from Bleach can't be trusted. thumb up

yungz22
Still wait ing on kisame's dc and speed feats that compare to kenpachi's


That panel doesnt show them countries away and it still took the kage a while to get there why this matters in a kisame, kenpachi fight idk

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
Still wait ing on kisame's dc and speed feats that compare to kenpachi's


That panel doesnt show them countries away and it still took the kage a while to get there why this matters in a kisame, kenpachi fight idk

You already got it, genius. Refer to above posts. Kisame out sped Killer Bee. That feat solo's.

That panel shows them flying FROM countries away. It took them a few minutes to get there. The reason this matters is because A is the fastest of the kage, and Killer Bee is superior to him in strength and equivalent in speed, and Kisame is superior to Killer Bee. That simple.

Kisame > Killer Bee >= A

yungz22
In the water dome bee couldnt even go all out he had to protect his enka master so if anything bee was handicapped during that fight.


Also kisame didnt out speed bee thats nonsense

pym-ftw
Either way Kenpachi doesn't blitz.

RaventheOnly
He doesn't blitz because that is not his style of fighting. He crushes peoples will to fight with overwhelming force and fear. He'll let him hit him as many times as he wants to show they have no chance because hes a berserker who feeds on pain, fear, and lust for battle to inadvertently make himself stronger. Kisame is a bit similar but he uses trickery with his sword absorption and water trap. He also never attacks unless he has an advantage he can exploit. He would probably try to escape once he figured out that Kenpachi is not phased by absorption and smashes any water globe crap he tries to encase him in with just a rietsu flexing.

SSJGGogeta
How's Kenpachi going to do that when his Killer Bee has better strength feats?

Not to mention that Kisame would absorb any of his reiatsu that he "flexed", which would only be assuming he wanted to toy with Kenny, given that characters ridiculously stronger than Kenny can't flex out of the water prisons made by Kisame's mere clones. thumb up

GG

pym-ftw
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
He doesn't blitz because that is not his style of fighting. He crushes peoples will to fight with overwhelming force and fear. He'll let him hit him as many times as he wants to show they have no chance because hes a berserker who feeds on pain, fear, and lust for battle to inadvertently make himself stronger. Kisame is a bit similar but he uses trickery with his sword absorption and water trap. He also never attacks unless he has an advantage he can exploit. He would probably try to escape once he figured out that Kenpachi is not phased by absorption and smashes any water globe crap he tries to encase him in with just a rietsu flexing. Kyuubi >>>>>>>> Kenpachi in aura feats.

Orochimaru's aura has better feats than Kenpachi.

RaventheOnly
How is physical strength going to help him against being encased in water? Kenpachi's presence itself is power that smashes things out of his way with overwhelming force like a bomb. He would just flex like I said, his rietsu and smash the water dome around him away. He has so much power that he literally has the eyepatch absorb power so he doesn't demolish people so quick which as far as that goes suggests that Kisame can suck up as much as he wants as he gets split in half.

And you are seriously saying that Killer Bee is physically stronger than Kenpachi? O.o Your just trolling at this point. I am not even going to argue it; that's just delusional. Just read the manga please.

RaventheOnly
Originally posted by god hand
dont bother. the poster above me thinks orochimaru s aura>>>>kenpachi.
LOL

agreed lawl

yungz22
Originally posted by god hand
thats bleach not naruto

pym-ftw
Originally posted by god hand
dont bother. the poster above me thinks orochimaru s aura>>>>kenpachi.
LOL Orochimaru paralyzed Kakashi with just his aura... if you can't come up with a point to refute with, please don't go with personal attacks it betrays weakness. Originally posted by god hand
when kyuubi has levelled multiple skyscraper sized buildings with aura alone, let me know.
even then he would be at ss arc kenpachi s level in that regard. he leveled the minature moon and vaporized most of a forest down to the ground water vs pain.

Honestly Kisame was able to absorb all of Naruto's chakra in a single pass in part 1.

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Orochimaru paralyzed Kakashi with just his aura... if you can't come up with a point to refute with, please don't go with personal attacks it betrays weakness. he leveled the minature moon and vaporized most of a forest down to the ground water vs pain.

Honestly Kisame was able to absorb all of Naruto's chakra in a single pass in part 1.


Oro used a jutsu go back and read the chapter for your self i thought the same at first but it was genjutsu

Roelito
Kenny would absolutely destroy this dude. Lol. How is this even a fight??? Even some of the Espada would win.

SSJGGogeta
This ISN'T a fight. Kisame stomps. HARD.

He is faster and stronger than Killer Bee, who has strength and speed feats that SHIT on Kenpachi.

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
This ISN'T a fight. Kisame stomps. HARD.

He is faster and stronger than Killer Bee, who has strength and speed feats that SHIT on Kenpachi.

You still have yet to lost kisame strength and speed feats that trump kenny's the guy cut a meteor in half with a swing of the sword kisame isnt coming close to that.


If you dont like bleach that fine but objectivity is important in debates. Your love for naruto is blinding you to the facts

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
You still have yet to lost kisame strength and speed feats that trump kenny's the guy cut a meteor in half with a swing of the sword kisame isnt coming close to that.


If you dont like bleach that fine but objectivity is important in debates. Your love for naruto is blinding you to the facts

No, it's just that you have yet to accept it.

Kisame is stronger, and faster than Killer Bee, and would have killed him if Raikage hadn't shown up.

Killer Bee destroyed a forest by turning. He can blow up mountains casually with a single biju bomb.

His destruction is comparable to Madara's perfect Susano'o. Stated by Madara himself.

Kisame, albeit simply because of his abilities that make him stronger in accordance to his opponent, beat Killer Bee.

He would stomp Kenpachi, as would most Akatsuki members. thumb up

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, it's just that you have yet to accept it.

Kisame is stronger, and faster than Killer Bee, and would have killed him if Raikage hadn't shown up.

Killer Bee destroyed a forest by turning. He can blow up mountains casually with a single biju bomb.

His destruction is comparable to Madara's perfect Susano'o. Stated by Madara himself.

Kisame, albeit simply because of his abilities that make him stronger in accordance to his opponent, beat Killer Bee.

He would stomp Kenpachi, as would most Akatsuki members. thumb up

Killer bees's feats dont become kisame's feats

Kisame has never once dodged bee's lariat he isnt a speed demon... And when he was in samehada mode bee was handicapped because he had to protect his enka master and fight at the same time. Plus be chose not to go bijuu mode cuz he was trying to hide from his brother. Bee didnt fight to his full capacity during that fight

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by god hand
this is a strength feat from a char far below vice captain level. i ll await scans of kisame s strength feat.

note that that feat was accomplished as a result of tremors from a casual stomp.

http://i1.mangapanda.com/naruto/589/naruto-3353245.jpg

This is a strength feat from someone who's destruction is as powerful as Eight tails/Killer Bee's, who was defeated by Kisame. Proof?

http://i34.mangapanda.com/naruto/589/naruto-3353249.jpg

Note that this feat was accomplished as a result of UNSHEATHING HIS SWORD.

thumb up

yungz22
Be was handicapped during his fight and didnt even go into full bijuu mode

pym-ftw
Originally posted by god hand
1)when did orochimaru accimplish this feat. scans would be appreciated.
2)kyuubi performed all the above feats with raw physical prowess not aura.
as seen in the scan i posted the echo of ken and ichigo s reitsu levelled skyscrapers.
two different things he did it twice. First in part 1 while sealing Oro's curse seal and again in Kakashi gaiden during Kakashi's mission.
Kyuubi isn't a physical body he's pure Chakra.Originally posted by yungz22
Oro used a jutsu go back and read the chapter for your self i thought the same at first but it was genjutsu "killing instinct" isn't a genjutsu.

yungz22
Originally posted by pym-ftw
he did it twice. First in part 1 while sealing Oro's curse seal and again in Kakashi gaiden during Kakashi's mission.
Kyuubi isn't a physical body he's pure Chakra. "killing instinct" isn't a genjutsu.

I remember it being some type of paralysis jutsu... But what ever it doesnt matter kisame doesnt have feats that support him beating kenpachi.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
Killer bees's feats dont become kisame's feats

Kisame has never once dodged bee's lariat he isnt a speed demon... And when he was in samehada mode bee was handicapped because he had to protect his enka master and fight at the same time. Plus be chose not to go bijuu mode cuz he was trying to hide from his brother. Bee didnt fight to his full capacity during that fight

Kisame is faster than Killer Bee in the water. He was even able to absorb enough chakra to revert him to his first mode in the time it took Killer Bee to land one lariat.

Killer Bee only had that handicap for a few seconds. He managed to get them out soon by using the hachibii's tentacles.

Kisame was able to fight on par with 7th gate Gai when he was at full power and trying to kill him. Gai even admitted Kisame would have won, but Gai doesn't use any chakra when in his gate modes.

The fight between them was only a minute or two long. Raikage showed up afterwards and they killed the zetsu clone of him, WHICH WAS 30% POWER, if you recall.

Destructo dick
Kenpachi stomps

Soi fong stomps actually...

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Kisame is faster than Killer Bee in the water. He was even able to absorb enough chakra to revert him to his first mode in the time it took Killer Bee to land one lariat.

Killer Bee only had that handicap for a few seconds. He managed to get them out soon by using the hachibii's tentacles.

Kisame was able to fight on par with 7th gate Gai when he was at full power and trying to kill him. Gai even admitted Kisame would have won, but Gai doesn't use any chakra when in his gate modes.

The fight between them was only a minute or two long. Raikage showed up afterwards and they killed the zetsu clone of him, WHICH WAS 30% POWER, if you recall.

Once gai opened 7 gates it was over kisame never fough on par with him. Also when did gai ever say kisame would have beat him. Scans? If gai were forced to go 8th gates kisane would get destroyed.

Killer bee never used full power in that fight.

Kenpachi can bust a meteor which is much larger than that water arena kisame made he can just as easily slash the water away as he did in the gremmy fight..... Also kisame was mortally wounded by killer bees lariat if it wasnt for his sword he would died against be in one hit. Kenpachi with one is way stronger that bee's lariat he would literally cut kisame in half. He would decimate him if he used kenpo style.

Honestly kisame would be dead before he even got to samehada mode

Kenpachi has tanked missle strikes, survived space like dimensions, survived bombs that rival deidara's bombs in dc. Hes tanked attacks that were way more powerful than bee's lariat.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
Once gai opened 7 gates it was over kisame never fough on par with him. Also when did gai ever say kisame would have beat him. Scans? If gai were forced to go 8th gates kisane would get destroyed.

Killer bee never used full power in that fight.

Kenpachi can bust a meteor which is much larger than that water arena kisame made he can just as easily slash the water away as he did in the gremmy fight..... Also kisame was mortally wounded by killer bees lariat if it wasnt for his sword he would died against be in one hit. Kenpachi with one is way stronger that bee's lariat he would literally cut kisame in half. He would decimate him if he used kenpo style.

Honestly kisame would be dead before he even got to samehada mode

Kenpachi has tanked missle strikes, survived space like dimensions, survived bombs that rival deidara's bombs in dc. Hes tanked attacks that were way more powerful than bee's lariat.

http://i31.mangapanda.com/naruto/507/naruto-1475547.jpg

Kisame insinuated that he would have won if Gai's attack used chakra. But it doesn't. Duh. I'm not saying Kisame could phuck up Jyuubidara.

Killer Bee might as well have. It has been constituted from his Enka's statements, as well as the Hachibi's itself, that the "second version" of jinchuriki transformation is just as strong as the biju itself, but is condensed into an even more dangerous form. That's why the edo tensei jinchuriki's were able to fight off the eight tails without going full Biju.

Kisame's water is chakra infused. It took the level of power that Gai in his seventh gate holds to force it back. Kenpachi can't hold a candle to that. And? If it wasn't for Kenpachi's sword, he wouldn't have cut the meteor in half. thumb up Kenpachi using Kendo would do nothing. Kisame can fight on par with mountain busting tiers. He survived a lariat in his normal form from second mode Killer Bee, who has all the strength of his Biju. The Hachibi destroyed a mountain range and forest by spinning his tails. A lariat from it has at least mountain+ level potential. Meaning Kisame's able to tank that in his shark skin mode. Even Kenpachi isn't at that level. Not to mention his speed is nothing compared to Killer Bee and Kisame's.

Kisame wouldn't even need it. He would make a few clones, vomit out an ocean, and Kenny would drown, or be killed by thousands of shark bombs that he can't defend against. Or maybe he'd use his superior speed to trap Kenny in a water prison and drain his reiatsu until he drowned.

Gremmy's strongest bomb, made from half of his body, wasn't anywhere near the level of Deidara's normal blasts, let alone his strongest one, which covers OVER 10 MILES, and that's just the blast radius. The outer space pocket was nothing. Kisame has tanked much greater heat by getting hit by Gai's attacks.

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
http://i31.mangapanda.com/naruto/507/naruto-1475547.jpg

Kisame insinuated that he would have won if Gai's attack used chakra. But it doesn't. Duh. I'm not saying Kisame could phuck up Jyuubidara.

Killer Bee might as well have. It has been constituted from his Enka's statements, as well as the Hachibi's itself, that the "second version" of jinchuriki transformation is just as strong as the biju itself, but is condensed into an even more dangerous form. That's why the edo tensei jinchuriki's were able to fight off the eight tails without going full Biju.

Kisame's water is chakra infused. It took the level of power that Gai in his seventh gate holds to force it back. Kenpachi can't hold a candle to that. And? If it wasn't for Kenpachi's sword, he wouldn't have cut the meteor in half. thumb up Kenpachi using Kendo would do nothing. Kisame can fight on par with mountain busting tiers. He survived a lariat in his normal form from second mode Killer Bee, who has all the strength of his Biju. The Hachibi destroyed a mountain range and forest by spinning his tails. A lariat from it has at least mountain+ level potential. Meaning Kisame's able to tank that in his shark skin mode. Even Kenpachi isn't at that level. Not to mention his speed is nothing compared to Killer Bee and Kisame's.

Kisame wouldn't even need it. He would make a few clones, vomit out an ocean, and Kenny would drown, or be killed by thousands of shark bombs that he can't defend against. Or maybe he'd use his superior speed to trap Kenny in a water prison and drain his reiatsu until he drowned.

Gremmy's strongest bomb, made from half of his body, wasn't anywhere near the level of Deidara's normal blasts, let alone his strongest one, which covers OVER 10 MILES, and that's just the blast radius. The outer space pocket was nothing. Kisame has tanked much greater heat by getting hit by Gai's attacks.

Almost everything you stated is speculation and untrue if bee's lariat was mountain level why didnt it destroy the mountain when sasuke dodged him and bee hit the ground


You said gai himself stated it.

Kenny has survived more than kisame could ever and has shown us he could dish out

Your credibility went down the drain when you wrote second version bijuu mode is as strong as the full powered hachibi himself.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
Almost everything you stated is speculation and untrue if bee's lariat was mountain level why didnt it destroy the mountain when sasuke dodged him and bee hit the ground


You said gai himself stated it.

Kenny has survived more than kisame could ever and has shown us he could dish out

Your credibility went down the drain when you wrote second version bijuu mode is as strong as the full powered hachibi himself.

When did bee use Lariat on Sasuke in the second form?

Kisame's smarter than Gai.

Killer Bee could survive more than Kenpachi could ever and has shown us he could dish out. And Kisame would have killed Killer Bee without Raikage's interference. thumb up

http://i34.mangapanda.com/naruto/471/naruto-985105.jpg

"He's contained the power of the Hachibi in human form.", In other words, "He's as strong as the Hachibi, but smaller.".

thumb up

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
When did bee use Lariat on Sasuke in the second form?

Kisame's smarter than Gai.

Killer Bee could survive more than Kenpachi could ever and has shown us he could dish out. And Kisame would have killed Killer Bee without Raikage's interference. thumb up

http://i34.mangapanda.com/naruto/471/naruto-985105.jpg

"He's contained the power of the Hachibi in human form.", In other words, "He's as strong as the Hachibi, but smaller.".

thumb up

Killer bee would have beat kisame had he not been handicapped by tryna hide from his brother and protecting his enka master. You have to remember the only reason kisame was able to steal bee chakra is because bee was tryna stop kisame from killing his master and the racoon while he was in the water bubble.


Where does it say hes as strong or stronger than the full powered hachibi.

Regardless kisame would have still lost to gai. Had he survived the seventh gate. Gai would have opened the 8th and stomped him.

That may be true but bee isnt fighting kenpachi kisame is. And you cant attribute bee's feats to kisame.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
Killer bee would have beat kisame had he not been handicapped by tryna hide from his brother and protecting his enka master. You have to remember the only reason kisame was able to steal bee chakra is because bee was tryna stop kisame from killing his master and the racoon while he was in the water bubble.


Where does it say hes as strong or stronger than the full powered hachibi.

Regardless kisame would have still lost to gai. Had he survived the seventh gate. Gai would have opened the 8th and stomped him.

That may be true but bee isnt fighting kenpachi kisame is. And you cant attribute bee's feats to kisame.

Killer Bee only had that handicap before they started fighting, and when they were in the huge bubble. All the other times, including when they escaped the bubble, Killer Bee had ample chances to win. But he couldn't.

I just showed you. That, and the fact that the Hachibi was unable to even hurt ONE of the second form Jinchuriki's, all point to them being almost as strong as the biju themselves, but also much faster, and smaller.

Why would Gai have opened the 8th gate? That would have been the biggest fail in fictional history. Kisame wasn't that important to begin with. And if he did, Kabuto could have brought him back with edo tensei, and made him constantly be in eight gate mode, and the shinobi alliance would have not stood a chance. Even Naruto and Sasuke would have been raped.

Anyway, why does it matter that Kisame would have lost to Gai either way? Kenpachi would probably get raped by base Gai, or at least 1st or 2nd gate.

I CAN link their feats together. If their abilities are relied upon physically, and the other can replicate or outdo them with the same means, then the other CAN ACHIEVE those feats, whether or not they have demonstrated so on panel. That's like saying that Goku can't blow up planets, even though Vegeta can.

pym-ftw
Kabuto didn't bring back Dai and he died via 8th gate.

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Killer Bee only had that handicap before they started fighting, and when they were in the huge bubble. All the other times, including when they escaped the bubble, Killer Bee had ample chances to win. But he couldn't.

I just showed you. That, and the fact that the Hachibi was unable to even hurt ONE of the second form Jinchuriki's, all point to them being almost as strong as the biju themselves, but also much faster, and smaller.

Why would Gai have opened the 8th gate? That would have been the biggest fail in fictional history. Kisame wasn't that important to begin with. And if he did, Kabuto could have brought him back with edo tensei, and made him constantly be in eight gate mode, and the shinobi alliance would have not stood a chance. Even Naruto and Sasuke would have been raped.

Anyway, why does it matter that Kisame would have lost to Gai either way? Kenpachi would probably get raped by base Gai, or at least 1st or 2nd gate.

I CAN link their feats together. If their abilities are relied upon physically, and the other can replicate or outdo them with the same means, then the other CAN ACHIEVE those feats, whether or not they have demonstrated so on panel. That's like saying that Goku can't blow up planets, even though Vegeta can.


This is naruto not dbz. Naruto doesnt have an extreme emphasis on power levels like dbzdoes. Naruto fights consist of strategy and rely on how different characters abilities contrast with one another. Bee and kisame fight very differently so you cant give them each others feats

In dbz you can scale because everybody is using basically the same means to fight which is ki

Saying bee uses some of the hachibi's power is not the same as someone saying its Stronger than the original.

Gai's ninja way is would not allow him to lose a fight like that he would gladly sacrifice himself for the sake of the viage that is how he is as a character. Any time he uses the gates he puts his body and life in danger for the sake of something he wants to protect. If seventh gate failed gai would glady use the 8th gate for the sake of his village.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Kabuto didn't bring back Dai and he died via 8th gate.

Um... What?

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
This is naruto not dbz. Naruto doesnt have an extreme emphasis on power levels like dbzdoes. Naruto fights consist of strategy and rely on how different characters abilities contrast with one another. Bee and kisame fight very differently so you cant give them each others feats

In dbz you can scale because everybody is using basically the same means to fight which is ki

Saying bee uses some of the hachibi's power is not the same as someone saying its Stronger than the original.

Gai's ninja way is would not allow him to lose a fight like that he would gladly sacrifice himself for the sake of the viage that is how he is as a character. Any time he uses the gates he puts his body and life in danger for the sake of something he wants to protect. If seventh gate failed gai would glady use the 8th gate for the sake of his village.

And? Goku and Gotenks fight very differently, but if Gotenks can blow a hole through reality by yelling, then so can Goku. Either way though, Kisame still PHYSICALLY trumped Killer Bee. The only handicap Killer Bee had was that he couldn't breathe under water.

He said he used the Hachibi's power in a human form. That's exactly what that means. Must I repost?

No he doesn't, Gai is an EXPERT at using the gates. He's able to use the eighth gate, and the evening elephant as well as night moth. The only risk he takes is being tired as hell afterwards, until you reach the eighth gate.

Plus, Kisame isn't that great of a threat. And AGAIN, I never said Kisame would beat Gai if he didn't use Hirudora, so you're arguing this point for no reason. Kisame WOULD have won though, if Gai used chakra instead of pure taijutsu. Solely because Kisame can absorb chakra through a lot of mediums, including his super shark bomb, which would have killed Raikage AND Bee if they weren't too fast for him to use it.

pym-ftw
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Um... What? Do you not know Dai, or are you unsure the context?Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Why would Gai have opened the 8th gate? That would have been the biggest fail in fictional history. Kisame wasn't that important to begin with. And if he did, Kabuto could have brought him back with edo tensei, and made him constantly be in eight gate mode, and the shinobi alliance would have not stood a chance.

Trocity
Originally posted by yungz22
This is naruto not dbz.Naruto fights consist of strategy and rely on how different characters abilities contrast with one another.

Hah. It used to, anyway.

chasedown
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
And? Goku and Gotenks fight very differently, but if Gotenks can blow a hole through reality by yelling, then so can Goku. Either way though, Kisame still PHYSICALLY trumped Killer Bee. The only handicap Killer Bee had was that he couldn't breathe under water.



once again saying he said it uses its power is not the same as saying this form is stronger than the the hachibi itself.

Is a newly charged battery more powerful that its source just because it uses the sources power? No it is not

dbz relies on power levels to gauge each others characters tiering.

Naruto does not because its tiering relys on different characters abilities like sharingan, byakugan and the many different types of ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu style. Not to mention bloodline abilities chakra types and other hax techniques. DBZ is Totally different.


Not being able to breathe was his only handicap? did you not see when bee had them two in his hands while he was swimming in the water his priority shifted towards them mainly the whole fight. Kisame used that to his advangtage to take away bee's ability to fight back thats a handicap.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-39730-9/naruto/chapter-471.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-1/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-4/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-5/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-6/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-7/naruto/chapter-472.html

bee eventually was able to move kisame to save his freinds but because he was trying to protect them kisame took his chakra. That olus running out of air is why kismae won. He fought a bee that wasnt really fighting back to the best of his ability.


once bee got his chakra back and took the fight seriously he and his brother blitzed him. With Kisame saying "you guys sure are fast" in astonishment

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by chasedown
once again saying he said it uses its power is not the same as saying this form is stronger than the the hachibi itself.

Is a newly charged battery more powerful that its source just because it uses the sources power? No it is not

dbz relies on power levels to gauge each others characters tiering.

Naruto does not because its tiering relys on different characters abilities like sharingan, byakugan and the many different types of ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu style. Not to mention bloodline abilities chakra types and other hax techniques. DBZ is Totally different.


Not being able to breathe was his only handicap? did you not see when bee had them two in his hands while he was swimming in the water his priority shifted towards them mainly the whole fight. Kisame used that to his advangtage to take away bee's ability to fight back thats a handicap.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-39730-9/naruto/chapter-471.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-1/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-4/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-5/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-6/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-7/naruto/chapter-472.html

bee eventually was able to move kisame to save his freinds but because he was trying to protect them kisame took his chakra. That olus running out of air is why kismae won. He fought a bee that wasnt really fighting back to the best of his ability.


once bee got his chakra back and took the fight seriously he and his brother blitzed him. With Kisame saying "you guys sure are fast" in astonishment

Again, you're twisting the words to fit your argument. Everyone see's the scan, so your attempt at saving face is just making you look stupid. He said, "He's using the power of the Jyuubi in a human form.".

Your analogy doesn't fit. If I used a power source to suck up the energy of the sun, I hold the energy of the sun in the source. If I just used a solar panel, then I'm just using some of the suns energy. There is a MASSIVE difference. He didn't make the distinction, so we take the statement in it's context. He said Killer Bee uses the power of the Hachibi, so we have to assume he meant all of it, as he didn't elaborate. Honestly, he shouldn't have had to. The statement was there because Kishi wanted it to be.

Not to mention that you're still dodging the part where the second form Jinchuriki's beat up the Hachibi without it landing a hit.

http://i23.mangapanda.com/naruto/566/naruto-2865063.jpg

Each of the second form jinchuriki were able to casually stop the Hachibi's fist, and they are all weaker than second form Bee, due to him having more tails. Even more proof.

It only took Bee a few pages to save them, and he didn't get any chakra stolen, because if you recall, he used the eight tails suction cups, and not chakra cloaks. thumb up

Kisame was weakened and out of his shark mode at that point. Not to mention he was against the freakin' Raikage and Killer Bee. He could react to it, but simply couldn't land his attack in time. And if you ALSO remember, that was a Zetsu clone. THOSE USE 30% OF THE USERS ACTUAL POWER. thumb up

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Again, you're twisting the words to fit your argument. Everyone see's the scan, so your attempt at saving face is just making you look stupid. He said, "He's using the power of the Jyuubi in a human form.".

Your analogy doesn't fit. If I used a power source to suck up the energy of the sun, I hold the energy of the sun in the source. If I just used a solar panel, then I'm just using some of the suns energy. There is a MASSIVE difference. He didn't make the distinction, so we take the statement in it's context. He said Killer Bee uses the power of the Hachibi, so we have to assume he meant all of it, as he didn't elaborate. Honestly, he shouldn't have had to. The statement was there because Kishi wanted it to be.

Not to mention that you're still dodging the part where the second form Jinchuriki's beat up the Hachibi without it landing a hit.

http://i23.mangapanda.com/naruto/566/naruto-2865063.jpg

Each of the second form jinchuriki were able to casually stop the Hachibi's fist, and they are all weaker than second form Bee, due to him having more tails. Even more proof.

It only took Bee a few pages to save them, and he didn't get any chakra stolen, because if you recall, he used the eight tails suction cups, and not chakra cloaks. thumb up

Kisame was weakened and out of his shark mode at that point. Not to mention he was against the freakin' Raikage and Killer Bee. He could react to it, but simply couldn't land his attack in time. And if you ALSO remember, that was a Zetsu clone. THOSE USE 30% OF THE USERS ACTUAL POWER. thumb up


Lmao just cant admit being wrong can you. So instead you try to change the subject and deviate from whats being debated. Everything you just put is speculative bs Smh

Lol heres another example superman uses the power of the sun but does that make him as powerful as the sun? No

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
Lmao just cant admit being wrong can you. So instead you try to change the subject and deviate from whats being debated. Everything you just put is speculative bs Smh

Lol heres another example superman uses the power of the sun but does that make him as powerful as the sun? No

Change the subject? I proved my point, the only ones shying away from this is you and Chasedown, by even suggesting that I'm trying to "change the subject", lol. Nothing I showed was speculation, in fact, that's what you're using when downplaying Enka's statement. Not to mention that I also showed a scan of second form Jinchuriki's displaying Biju level strength against the Hachibi.

That analogy is as pointless to bring up as the battery thing. Superman absorbs the sun's energy like a solar panel, and again, that is as pointless as you changing the subject by bringing up Superman in the first place. If the sun turned into a human, then the human would be using the power of the sun, RIGHT? Yes, the second biju form was the Hachibi becoming a human, as per Enka's statement.

This isn't debatable, so it's pointless for you to be replying at this point at all. thumb up

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Change the subject? I proved my point, the only ones shying away from this is you and Chasedown, by even suggesting that I'm trying to "change the subject", lol. Nothing I showed was speculation, in fact, that's what you're using when downplaying Enka's statement. Not to mention that I also showed a scan of second form Jinchuriki's displaying Biju level strength against the Hachibi.

That analogy is as pointless to bring up as the battery thing. Superman absorbs the sun's energy like a solar panel, and again, that is as pointless as you changing the subject by bringing up Superman in the first place. If the sun turned into a human, then the human would be using the power of the sun, RIGHT? Yes, the second biju form was the Hachibi becoming a human, as per Enka's statement.

This isn't debatable, so it's pointless for you to be replying at this point at all. thumb up


Im not down playing anything saying your using someone elses power isnt the same as saying its as strong as or stronger than the source. If anything your the one try put words in the enka master's mouth.

Is the green lantern's ring as strong as the battery itself? No
When thanos uses the power from the in infinity stones does that mean hes stronger than the stones themselves? No
When aizen uses the power of the hogyoku does that make him as strong as or stronger than the hogyoku itself? No

These are just some of the many examples out there and they are relavent because each of them take power from their respective sources and like bee they are not more powerful than the sources.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
Im not down playing anything saying your using someone elses power isnt the same as saying its as strong as or stronger than the source. If anything your the one try put words in the enka master's mouth.

Is the green lantern's ring as strong as the battery itself? No
When thanos uses the power from the in infinity stones does that mean hes stronger than the stones themselves? No
When aizen uses the power of the hogyoku does that make him as strong as or stronger than the hogyoku itself? No

These are just some of the many examples out there and they are relavent because each of them take power from their respective sources and like bee they are not more powerful than the sources.

For the last time, the examples you're giving are totally irrelevant. They all use the powers of their sources to give them their abilities in the first place. Bee in his second form, according to Enka's statement, BECOMES the Hachibi, but in a human form. He's basically a condensed version of it, making his eight tailed second version even more dangerous than the Hachibi itself.

I have given supporting evidence as well, with the Hachibi being overpowered by weaker Biju in their condensed forms.

Either give evidence disproving this, in the form of scans or statements, otherwise something cannon, or stop replying. thumb up

TheTyrant
You should read Gremmy vs Zaraki if you for some reason disagree with Kenpachi stomping the shit out of Kisame.

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
For the last time, the examples you're giving are totally irrelevant. They all use the powers of their sources to give them their abilities in the first place. Bee in his second form, according to Enka's statement, BECOMES the Hachibi, but in a human form. He's basically a condensed version of it, making his eight tailed second version even more dangerous than the Hachibi itself.

I have given supporting evidence as well, with the Hachibi being overpowered by weaker Biju in their condensed forms.

Either give evidence disproving this, in the form of scans or statements, otherwise something cannon, or stop replying. thumb up


The hachi was overpowered by a group of version 2 bijuu not just one or two so that isnt even an example and he was only hurt by them he was still able to fight after that and even was able to immobilize ..... Regardless thats beside the point because bee still kisame at the end of the fight.

Kisame's head was cut off by elbows, chest was blown open by bee's charge. He can be harmed by much less than kenny can dishout

kenpachi with the casual swing of one arm destroyed building with just his pure physical strength. And recently busted a meteor. He could easily cut kisame in half.

Kenny tanked a nuke Show me a kisame performin a dc feat that even equals that.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by yungz22
The hachi was overpowered by a group of version 2 bijuu not just one or two so that isnt even an example and he was only hurt by them he was still able to fight after that and even was able to immobilize ..... Regardless thats beside the point because bee still kisame at the end of the fight.

Kisame's head was cut off by elbows, chest was blown open by bee's charge. He can be harmed by much less than kenny can dishout

kenpachi with the casual swing of one arm destroyed building with just his pure physical strength. And recently busted a meteor. He could easily cut kisame in half.

Kenny tanked a nuke Show me a kisame performin a dc feat that even equals that.

1. The Hachibi's fist was blocked by the six tails in second form. Only him/her, not any of the others. Not to mention that most of them were attacking Naruto, and just dodging the Hachibi with no problem.

Eiter way, this is a supporting feat to Enka's statement, proving the second forms to be around equal to their biju in strength, and superior in speed.

2. LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH. I can barely read your post, it's like I'm reading a five year olds argument.

3. Yes, Kisame was hurt by those things, but survived. The Hachibi destroyed a mountain range sized forest by spinning. It's punches at that degree, are AT LEAST mountain level. It's punches = Second form's punches. thumb up

4. What does that matter? Kenny's best feat is destroying a few kilometer large meteor. Killer Bee in second form has mountain level punches. That's MUCH bigger of a feat than the tiny meteor Kenny busted.

5. Kisame survived Hirudora from Gai. An attack almost as strong as Evening elephant, which a single punch from blew multiple-mile wide and deep craters into the ground from the air pressure alone. That punch had more force than any nuke, and also ridiculously more than the mini-baby explosion that you're talking about from Gremmy. Which was not even close to a nuke. Even Soi Fon's rocket made a bigger explosion.

yungz22
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. The Hachibi's fist was blocked by the six tails in second form. Only him/her, not any of the others. Not to mention that most of them were attacking Naruto, and just dodging the Hachibi with no problem.

Eiter way, this is a supporting feat to Enka's statement, proving the second forms to be around equal to their biju in strength, and superior in speed.

2. LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH. I can barely read your post, it's like I'm reading a five year olds argument.

3. Yes, Kisame was hurt by those things, but survived. The Hachibi destroyed a mountain range sized forest by spinning. It's punches at that degree, are AT LEAST mountain level. It's punches = Second form's punches. thumb up

4. What does that matter? Kenny's best feat is destroying a few kilometer large meteor. Killer Bee in second form has mountain level punches. That's MUCH bigger of a feat than the tiny meteor Kenny busted.

5. Kisame survived Hirudora from Gai. An attack almost as strong as Evening elephant, which a single punch from blew multiple-mile wide and deep craters into the ground from the air pressure alone. That punch had more force than any nuke, and also ridiculously more than the mini-baby explosion that you're talking about from Gremmy. Which was not even close to a nuke. Even Soi Fon's rocket made a bigger explosion.

The impact of A meteor the size kenny destroyed can easily destroy a mountain while also causing a new ice age at the same time... Try again

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