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Thor (can only go Melee with his hammer)
Hulk
Abomination
Ronan

Can the four win?

If this is Ronan without the stone then they lose. Twiverse and underworld are too many and too fast.

sadly the four lose. marvel characters are watered down too much on screen.

they lose...but it would be incredible to see those four in a circle back to back fighting off a horde of vampires and werewolves, getting overrun, knowing they are gonna lose.
real question is who goes down first. and how many each take out before they die.

Well, this didn't work out like carver wanted.

Okay I'll bite: How do the verses in question put down Hulk, Abomination, and Thor?

Is there some esoteric shit in Twilight that can?

Because nothing in Underworld could.

How do the two verses stack up to the duo, especially Thor who can spam massive AoE attacks and can fly and shit

Hulk and Abomination are too strong for the verses to hurt though prolly too slow so, stalemate I guess

Ronan, well we always go with current versions and he had the Infinity Stone, which are implied to be life wipers. Make of that what you will

Originally posted by NemeBro
Okay I'll bite: How do the verses in question put down Hulk, Abomination, and Thor?

Is there some esoteric shit in Twilight that can?

Because nothing in Underworld could.

Jane alone could cripple them with pain. Thor is the key player on the Marvel side, because he can fly and just spam lightning. Hulk and Abom and Ronan however are too slow to tag any of the vamps and as strong as they are they'll get overpowered by sheer numbers. They may be stronger than the vamps one on one, but I doubt they're stronger than maybe 20 or so vamps ganging up on each of them.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If this is Ronan without the stone then they lose. Twiverse and underworld are too many and too fast. Not to mention they have a wide variety of powers.

Marvel team wins. Hulk alone could solo.

Lol no. Hulk falls victim to mind attacks. Jane rapes Hulk.

Originally posted by Raisen
sadly the four lose. marvel characters are watered down too much on screen.



Except for Cap. He is much more like his Ultimate counter-part than 616. I'm okay with that.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Lol no. Hulk falls victim to mind attacks. Jane rapes Hulk.

Alec puts down Hulk, not Jane.


If Jane attacked Hulk with that unbearable pain attack, she would inadvertently create the most physically powerful being in the universe. Imagine a Hulk that receives no damage from an unimaginable pain and he just gets madder and madder and madder?


No thanks to that situation. That's the stuff of nightmares (something like that happened in 616...Hulk got so mad that Earth was in danger just from him walking).


Anyway, I think this is not so one-sided as the Hulk vs. Twivamps thread.


They have magical beings like Thor involved. IMO, Thor should have light to moderate immunity to some of the Twivamps powers....because I'm going to pretend they are magic.




However, I don't believe Marvel stands a chance. There are just too many powers and Twivamps, here, for this to be a fair match-up. If Carver narrowed the roster down to 7 Twivamps, or something, I think we would have a good thread.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Alec puts down Hulk, not Jane.


If Jane attacked Hulk with that unbearable pain attack, she would inadvertently create the most physically powerful being in the universe. Imagine a Hulk that receives no damage from an unimaginable pain and he just gets madder and madder and madder?


No thanks to that situation. That's the stuff of nightmares (something like that happened in 616...Hulk got so mad that Earth was in danger just from him walking).


Anyway, I think this is not so one-sided as the Hulk vs. Twivamps thread.


They have magical beings like Thor involved. IMO, Thor should have light to moderate immunity to some of the Twivamps powers....because I'm going to pretend they are magic.




However, I don't believe Marvel stands a chance. There are just too many powers and Twivamps, here, for this to be a fair match-up. If Carver narrowed the roster down to 7 Twivamps, or something, I think we would have a good thread. I'd like to go down on Alice.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
I'd like to go down on Alice.

So would I. She's a solid 9 out of 10. One of the most beautiful women in existence.

In the book, Stephanie Meyers does a great job of explaining how much more intelligent Vampires are than humans. They all have eidetic memories and their cognition is equally improved. So when Edward makes the claim that only Joseph Smi...I mean Carlisle, is the smartest and most educated man on earth (with him claiming himself to be the second most educated/smartest), that's probably true.

So this quote from Meyers about Alice's powers should make it clear on how much more intelligent Vampires are compared to humans:

"I think my fascination with that very concept kind of comes through in Alice's visions of the future, where there are fourteen million of them. As characters make choices, they're narrowing down which visions can actually happen."


That's 14 million different futures that Alice sees. 14 million. For me, that adds an additional layer to her character that should have been fleshed out better, in the books. I can see why Alice knows which one of those is the most likely: she uses her perfect memory and superior intelligence to surmise which one of those futures is the most likely for the people involved (because she knows people, after a while...obviously).


Alice's farseeing abilities are exponentially more powerful than a Jedi's but they work similarly.

Originally posted by dadudemon
So would I. She's a solid 9 out of 10. One of the most beautiful women in existence. Not as hot as that other chick.

Hi:

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33900000/Alice-Eclipse-alice-cullen-33977204-470-467.png

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7500000/Ashley-Celebrating-the-Power-of-Youth-alice-cullen-7599152-1604-2394.jpg

http://www.ashleygreenefans.co.uk/photo/ashleygreene/ashley-greene-aka-alice-cullen-twilighters-762891948.jpg

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Not as hot as that other chick.

Who?

I think Ashley Greene is the hottest, by far.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Who?

I think Ashley Greene is the hottest, by far.


h_nKTSJu1VE

I think Thor unleashing his full destructive forces would do a number on the twivamps and Underworld universe.

Unfortunately in the opening post he's been regulated to H2H only while all the Vamps and wolves get their full range of abilities.

carver thought doing that would make Hulk the MVP in Marvels victory, because let's not kid ourselves, there is no way carver made a thread where he believes the Hulk loses.

The team might be able to due some damage but honestly the speed of the twivamps, the underworld universe also has some heavy hitters and firepower, is going to be overwhelming.

If anything I think Ronan's Hammer blasts at this point will be the teams best weapon. It's an area effect attack that the twivamps may not be able to avoid and can fling an entire team of strong people to the ground. It may be enough to stun any twi vamps for Hulk and Thor to go to town of them.

Ronan himself is strong enough to send someone flying and embedding them into a solid metal wall with a casual hit. That someone being Drax who is also incredibly strong. IMO opinion that gives Ronan the strength edge against the vamps and wolves.

Of course numbers and sheer speed is going to eventually take the team down. It just depends on how long you think they may last.

Didn't the AOE/ranged attacks only happen after Ronan added the stone to his weapon?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Didn't the AOE/ranged attacks only happen after Ronan added the stone to his weapon? He did use it to snap that one guy's neck before the gem.

When he survives the attack from Starlord he hits them with a wave of the same energy as that attack.

I think that attack is within Ronin's normal power level as I think a gem enhanced attack for have vaporized the GOTG.

Now the attack he used on the Nova Corp barricade was definitely gem enhanced and not something he could regularly do.

Originally posted by Silent Master
carver thought doing that would make Hulk the MVP in Marvels victory, because let's not kid ourselves, there is no way carver made a thread where he believes the Hulk loses.

I said Hulk would lose against Superman 1 on 1.

Originally posted by Newjak
He did use it to snap that one guy's neck before the gem.

When he survives the attack from Starlord he hits them with a wave of the same energy as that attack.

I think that attack is within Ronin's normal power level as I think a gem enhanced attack for have vaporized the GOTG.

Now the attack he used on the Nova Corp barricade was definitely gem enhanced and not something he could regularly do.

I had forgotten about him killing Thanos' minion.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I had forgotten about him killing Thanos' minion. Yeah if it hadn't been for that scene I would have said every hammer AoE/Ranged attack would have been part of the gem.

Originally posted by Newjak
The team might be able to due some damage but honestly the speed of the twivamps, the underworld universe also has some heavy hitters and firepower, is going to be overwhelming.

If anything I think Ronan's Hammer blasts at this point will be the teams best weapon. It's an area effect attack that the twivamps may not be able to avoid and can fling an entire team of strong people to the ground. It may be enough to stun any twi vamps for Hulk and Thor to go to town of them.

Ronan himself is strong enough to send someone flying and embedding them into a solid metal wall with a casual hit. That someone being Drax who is also incredibly strong. IMO opinion that gives Ronan the strength edge against the vamps and wolves.

Of course numbers and sheer speed is going to eventually take the team down. It just depends on how long you think they may last.

I'm not sure if Ronan is really any stronger than a Twivamp. I mean, if his best strength feat is throwing Drax a couple of meters away, well, it's definitely not something that puts him above the tree pushing feat of Edward.

Hulk, Abom and Thor I'm sure are stronger than the average Twivamp. Not so sure about Ronan's strength yet.

In any case, I failed to see in the OP that Thor was gimped to only melee. Marvel team definitely has no chance now, as Thor was their ace card.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm not sure if Ronan is really any stronger than a Twivamp. I mean, if his best strength feat is throwing Drax a couple of meters away, well, it's definitely not something that puts him above the tree pushing feat of Edward.

Hulk, Abom and Thor I'm sure are stronger than the average Twivamp. Not so sure about Ronan's strength yet.

In any case, I failed to see in the OP that Thor was gimped to only melee. Marvel team definitely has no chance now, as Thor was their ace card. He didn't just throw him a couple of meters. He hit/pushed a man, strong enough to tear robots apart, with one hand so hard that Drax was embedded into a metal wall like it was made putty. That is not something easy to do.

Edit: I also agree that their only chance at a win was Thor going all out.

Originally posted by Newjak
He didn't just throw him a couple of meters. He hit/pushed a man, strong enough to tear robots apart, with one hand so hard that Drax was embedded into a metal wall like it was made putty. That is not something easy to do.

Edit: I also agree that their only chance at a win was Thor going all out.

Well yes but Drax's strength doesn't have as much to do with how far he was thrown as does his mass and weight. I'm not saying Ronan wasn't super strong, he obviously was. Just saying we don't know enough about him yet to conclude that he was stronger than a twivamp.

After all, Edward did casually stop that van with just a palm. And I'm pretty sure that van weighed more than Drax.

In any case, if Thor is gimped then Ronan would be the team's next best hope. But he doesn't have the mass destructive capabilities that Thor has. Bottom line is, Hulk and Abom won't be able to do much here.

Lets not forget that even though Thor is gimped, he still possesses durability, strength, speed and regeneration far greater than a normal Asgardian who are a lot more powerful than vampires and lycans. He could easily levitate Mjolnir and have it spin around him, swatting vampires and lycans away like they are flies.Still MELEE since he's using only his hammer. Ronan has immense durability seeing as the punches from Drax the Destroyer could barely affect him. Drax is also another being more powerful than vampires or werewolves. If Hulk and Abomination go all out like they did in Hulk 2008, the vampires and lycans may as well turn the other way and run as fast as possible to avoid becoming smears on the ground.

Also the OP never stated what time they would be fighting at. If it was daytime, then Underworld vampires go down rather quickly. Now as for lycans, they aren't as strong as any of these four Marvel characters. Twilight vampires may have special abilities such as Jane with her pain-causing stare but thats going to make Hulk even madder and STRONGER so it backfires. Also as for Alice's ability to see in the future, she herself also states that her visions only show a possible future,not the exact future. I think that Team Marvel has a chance but the sheer numbers may prove to be too much.

Hulk solo's.

Originally posted by King Ghidorah
Lets not forget that even though Thor is gimped, he still possesses durability, strength, speed and regeneration far greater than a normal Asgardian who are a lot more powerful than vampires and lycans. He could easily levitate Mjolnir and have it spin around him, swatting vampires and lycans away like they are flies.Still MELEE since he's using only his hammer. Ronan has immense durability seeing as the punches from Drax the Destroyer could barely affect him. Drax is also another being more powerful than vampires or werewolves. If Hulk and Abomination go all out like they did in Hulk 2008, the vampires and lycans may as well turn the other way and run as fast as possible to avoid becoming smears on the ground.

Also the OP never stated what time they would be fighting at. If it was daytime, then Underworld vampires go down rather quickly. Now as for lycans, they aren't as strong as any of these four Marvel characters. Twilight vampires may have special abilities such as Jane with her pain-causing stare but thats going to make Hulk even madder and STRONGER so it backfires. Also as for Alice's ability to see in the future, she herself also states that her visions only show a possible future,not the exact future. I think that Team Marvel has a chance but the sheer numbers may prove to be too much.

Let's also not forget that vamps have superstrength of their own. Edward was able to stop a van with one hand and push over a tree... and he's not exactly considered one of the stronger vampires.

And though I consider Hulk, Abom and Thor stronger than the average vampire, I also don't think they're strong enough from getting overwhelmed by even just 10 vamps each.

Team gets rapestomped.

Marvel team destroys and will utter ease... Most of these vampires get one shot killed by Omni blasts.. they have no way of beating Thor as I could just fly in the air the whole time and spam lighting. They also have no way of putting down the hulk before he gets super pissed. They don't have the firepower to do so... He'll just get pissed and when he does... People will get launched into space. Marvel team crushes.

Uh yeah.... I'm assuming you don't know about the other superpowers the vamps have?

So they have a way to get to Thor while flying in the air? how so?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So they have a way to get to Thor while flying in the air? how so?

Jane's psychic pain powers. Or her brother's sense deprivation.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Okay I'll bite: How do the verses in question put down Hulk, Abomination, and Thor?

Is there some esoteric shit in Twilight that can?

Because nothing in Underworld could.

Yep. The Marvel boys kick that ass.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Marvel team destroys and will utter ease... Most of these vampires get one shot killed by Omni blasts.. they have no way of beating Thor as I could just fly in the air the whole time and spam lighting. They also have no way of putting down the hulk before he gets super pissed. They don't have the firepower to do so... He'll just get pissed and when he does... People will get launched into space. Marvel team crushes.

thor doesn't have lightning in this fight. anyway i dunno......2 universes? thats alot of vamps and wolves...from both sides.. on top of the sheer number, there are the specials. the ones with the ability to block senses and cause pain with a thought. the super lycan that heals instantly is also in this...ALONG with hundreds of other vamps and wolves? hmmm i dunno if they can flat out kill the team (ronan may die) but the team definitely get overwhelmed. i feel like they tire out before anything.

I see jane using the psychic pain thing on the most scary/threatening looking one. Most likely abom who looks more monstrous than the hulk. Abom may fight through the pain but its def a handicap. Gets overwhelmed. Super Lycan also probs goes after him as well and claws him up good. The others....that dude with the sense deprivation puts the moves on hulk and thor. hulk goes into rage mode out of sheer fear from lose of sight/sound (thats how the power works right?). thor too. tho they may not hurt him too bad physically thor can tire out and get dogpiled. i feel like enough of the twi vamps are strong enough to do it. Ronan...well...i feel like the weaker wolves could even scratch him up. William, selene, micheal, and viktor probs even gives him trouble. He is the only one on team that gets clawed to death. Still not sure they could put the hulk down. Piss him off yea...but put it down i dunno. They could always just take away his senses and let him rage in some random direction all by himself and go after the other 3.

the more i think about it i say team loses. We know from TIH that abom can get choked into submission. Id say get 2 or 3 of the strongest twi vamps on his back squeezing the shit out of his neck while jane psy pains him and the super lycan going full feral mode on him...he goes down. Hulk is made blind and deaf and goes rage mode swinging wildly, but missing everything. Thor while not really getting beat up, just gets overwhelmed. Ronan gets massacred by the Underworld Hybrids and Elders.

Tho all of this is assuming the two verses are working together with a plan and not just randomly charging whoever. If they do it smart they can pull off a "kind of" win since they aren't really killing thor or hulk but more negating them. Can't the guy with sense deprivation use it on more than one person at a time?

But yea....the circumstances I gave are the only way i see team being "deafeted".

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So they have a way to get to Thor while flying in the air? how so?

Yeah, except Thor is grounded and restricted to melee in this fight.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, except Thor is grounded and restricted to melee in this fight.

There is NO mention of Thor not being able to fly.. he just can't use exotic powers with his hammer

Originally posted by wallman77
thor doesn't have lightning in this fight. anyway i dunno......2 universes? thats alot of vamps and wolves...from both sides.. on top of the sheer number, there are the specials. the ones with the ability to block senses and cause pain with a thought. the super lycan that heals instantly is also in this...ALONG with hundreds of other vamps and wolves? hmmm i dunno if they can flat out kill the team (ronan may die) but the team definitely get overwhelmed. i feel like they tire out before anything.

I see jane using the psychic pain thing on the most scary/threatening looking one. Most likely abom who looks more monstrous than the hulk. Abom may fight through the pain but its def a handicap. Gets overwhelmed. Super Lycan also probs goes after him as well and claws him up good. The others....that dude with the sense deprivation puts the moves on hulk and thor. hulk goes into rage mode out of sheer fear from lose of sight/sound (thats how the power works right?). thor too. tho they may not hurt him too bad physically thor can tire out and get dogpiled. i feel like enough of the twi vamps are strong enough to do it. Ronan...well...i feel like the weaker wolves could even scratch him up. William, selene, micheal, and viktor probs even gives him trouble. He is the only one on team that gets clawed to death. Still not sure they could put the hulk down. Piss him off yea...but put it down i dunno. They could always just take away his senses and let him rage in some random direction all by himself and go after the other 3.

Care to prove that her attack would actually effect Thor.. I see no reason to believe it would anything to him.. He's taken MuCH MUCH worse than that kinda attack.

It's a psychic attack. Care to prove that Thor can defend against psychic attacks?

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's a psychic attack. Care to prove that Thor can defend against psychic attacks?

You don't know Thor has strong resistance to metal assaults? You should learn about the characters before debating them.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You don't know Thor has strong resistance to metal assaults? You should learn about the characters before debating them.

Go ahead and list movie feats then of Thor resisting mental assaults. Prove that he has mental resistance. And please, stop using comicbook feats.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Jane's psychic pain powers. Or her brother's sense deprivation.

Would just make the Hulk angrier and angrier = more powerful.

Hulk could solo this, just take time.

Hulk was hurt by the Chihuahua's lasers (same lasers that couldn't put down Captain America with a clean shot), the twivamps teeth will probably tear him apart with their superior speed.

The Hulk was being shot with the lasers that were mounted on the sleds, IIRC Cap was shot with one of the staff-like lasers.

The beams from the sled mounted lasers seemed much larger.

Originally posted by Robtard
Would just make the Hulk angrier and angrier = more powerful.

Hulk could solo this, just take time.

Movie Hulk has never been proven to get stronger the madder he gets. Besides even if he did, getting deprived of his senses will probably calm him down instead of angering him.

And again if he did get stronger and all, then what? Twivamps are far too fast for him to catch.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Hulk was hurt by the Chihuahua's lasers (same lasers that couldn't put down Captain America with a clean shot), the twivamps teeth will probably tear him apart with their superior speed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The Hulk was being shot with the lasers that were mounted on the sleds, IIRC Cap was shot with one of the staff-like lasers.

The beams from the sled mounted lasers seemed much larger.

Marvel wins hands down...durability factor edges the supernatural by a landslide.

This is pure obliteration. The four will wipe them all from existence period.

Anyone saying that the vampire teeth can harm Hulk sounds foolish. Hulk can take straight slashes from wolverines claws or shake off a hit from Thor's hammer or Cap's shield like its nothing. Again, these poor little vampires get deatroyed. Avengers take on universal threats and aliens so what are these vampires gonna do ?! Someone else said they could choke Hulk or Abomination. You guys are funny lol.

Cant Thor just spam AOE attacks and tornados? What will speed do against that?

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Cant Thor just spam AOE attacks and tornados? What will speed do against that?

Well when you got someone who can read minds, another who can see the future and a girl who can cause instant, crippling pain I doubt Thor will even get the chance to do that.

Originally posted by thezoneexpo
Anyone saying that the vampire teeth can harm Hulk sounds foolish. Hulk can take straight slashes from wolverines claws or shake off a hit from Thor's hammer or Cap's shield like its nothing. Again, these poor little vampires get deatroyed. Avengers take on universal threats and aliens so what are these vampires gonna do ?! Someone else said they could choke Hulk or Abomination. You guys are funny lol.

When has movie Hulk taken slashes from wolverine?

So who in either verse can physically match a nuke? Because ubless they can, Thor isnt even going to be knocked out.

Can a bite from a Vampire/Warewolve pierce thors skin?

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
So who in either verse can physically match a nuke? Because ubless they can, Thor isnt even going to be knocked out.

Jane can cripple him with pain. Her brother can just disable his senses. Thor has no defense against these.

And I'm a big Thor fan, but when has he ever taken a nuke?

LOL at Twilight or Under World teams winning this match. They lose badly.

Originally posted by Kotor3
LOL at Twilight or Under World teams winning this match. They lose badly.

Be honest now, have you watched the Twilight movies?

Twilight = superstrength, exotic powers, Jane, Alice, Edward, plenty of numbers, etc.
Underworld = too many vamps and lycans.

Yep, sorry to both myself and you all again, fellas, but Twilight and Underworld win and win hard here. Pains me to say it as the Twilight movies, save some of Eclipse, are abysmal.

Twihard Wins 2: Twi Harder.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Be honest now, have you watched the Twilight movies? With much regret, yes I have.

Let's just used the Hulk for this battle. In this battle Hulk would see them as the enemy.

1. Causing Hulk pain is only going to make him angrier which will add to his strength, healing, and speed.
2. No matter how fast they move Hulk is eventually going to hit them. I know Hulk can survive their hits but can they survive his?

I mean Hulk can smash the ground and do other things to disrupt their movements. You add the rest and it overkill.

Please tell me one thing they can do that will put Hulk down.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Twilight = superstrength, exotic powers, Jane, Alice, Edward, plenty of numbers, etc.
Underworld = too many vamps and lycans.

Yep, sorry to both myself and you all again, fellas, but Twilight and Underworld win and win hard here. Pains me to say it as the Twilight movies, save some of Eclipse, are abysmal.

Twihard Wins 2: Twi Harder. Not seeing it. Exotic powers will help them how? I know of none that will cause the team to lose.

Originally posted by Kotor3
With much regret, yes I have.

Let's just used the Hulk for this battle. In this battle Hulk would see them as the enemy.

1. Causing Hulk pain is only going to make him angrier which will add to his strength, healing, and speed.
2. No matter how fast they move Hulk is eventually going to hit them. I know Hulk can survive their hits but can they survive his?

I mean Hulk can smash the ground and do other things to disrupt their movements. You add the rest and it overkill.

Please tell me one thing they can do that will put Hulk down.

No, I don't think you have actually watched them. Because you'd know that Jane's brother can calm Hulk down and Hulk is nowhere near fast enough to keep up with the vamps.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No, I don't think you have actually watched them. Because you'd know that Jane's brother can calm Hulk down and Hulk is nowhere near fast enough to keep up with the vamps.

Wasn't his gift the sensory deprivation one? I am pretty sure Jasper was the one who could manipulate emotions, including inducing a state of calm in those he applied his power to. Either way, there is a vamp that can calm Hulk down. And the sensory deprivation one is also pretty powerful, seeing as it can even remove someone's sight, IIRC.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Wasn't his gift the sensory deprivation one? I am pretty sure Jasper was the one who could manipulate emotions, including inducing a state of calm in those he applied his power to. Either way, there is a vamp that can calm Hulk down. And the sensory deprivation one is also pretty powerful, seeing as it can even remove someone's sight, IIRC.

Yes sensory deprivation. I meant he could use that to calm Hulk down. I actually forgot about Jasper but that's also a good call. Either one could calm the Hulk down, or even do it at the same time.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No, I don't think you have actually watched them. Because you'd know that Jane's brother can calm Hulk down and Hulk is nowhere near fast enough to keep up with the vamps. Calm him down how? I have to look that up again. I thought his wack mist just blinds you not calm you down.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Wasn't his gift the sensory deprivation one? I am pretty sure Jasper was the one who could manipulate emotions, including inducing a state of calm in those he applied his power to. Either way, there is a vamp that can calm Hulk down. And the sensory deprivation one is also pretty powerful, seeing as it can even remove someone's sight, IIRC. Forgot about Jasper. The only thing is if Jasper ability is so powerful then that should for the most part make the Cullen clan the most powerful and dangerous but it didn't.

How long would it take for him to make the hulk calm down before he was attack or the Hulk attacked him. In this fight the Hulk sees him as the enemy so the mere sight of him would make the Hulk angry.

Question, is Jasper ability more powerful than's Hulk's anger? My assumption is no.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Calm him down how? I have to look that up again. I thought his wack mist just blinds you not calm you down.

It deprives you of your senses. If there is no stimuli to make Hulk angry, then there's no reason to be angry. Or he can deprive Hulk of his senses while Jasper calms him down. And even if Hulk just rampages blindly, the vamps are too fast for him to hit anyway.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It deprives you of your senses. If there is no stimuli to make Hulk angry, then there's no reason to be angry. Or he can deprive Hulk of his senses while Jasper calms him down. And even if Hulk just rampages blindly, the vamps are too fast for him to hit anyway. I don't see the senses ability as a big issue for Hulk when he could just jump free from the effected area.

Jasper is the only one who could really have an effect. Please with the too fast to hit. They would eventually get close and Hulk would hit them. Also if he stomps the ground there speed won't do them any good.

The issue that I see is that I don't recall Jasper using his ability in combat. Two, this is a team battle, could he keep Hulk and everyone else calm long enough for the battle to end? Three is Jasper ability strong enough to keep Hulks anger down?

What is going to protect anyone from Thor's hammer?

Team wins becuase of hulk and Area Attacks

Originally posted by Kotor3
I don't see the senses ability as a big issue for Hulk when he could just jump free from the effected area.

Jasper is the only one who could really have an effect. Please with the too fast to hit. They would eventually get close and Hulk would hit them. Also if he stomps the ground there speed won't do them any good.

The issue that I see is that I don't recall Jasper using his ability in combat. Two, this is a team battle, could he keep Hulk and everyone else calm long enough for the battle to end? Three is Jasper ability strong enough to keep Hulks anger down?

What is going to protect anyone from Thor's hammer?

Well yeah, Hulk can run away from the battle, but everytime he comes back to try and fight someone he'll have to enter that area where he risks his senses getting deprived.

I don't get this analogy of yours that speed is irrelevant just because the vamps get close to Hulk. The vamps will land hits on Hulk at will and Hulk will be too slow to land hits on them. Plus you forget that the vamps are ridiculously strong themselves. Edward, who claims he isn't exactly a strong vampire, was able to uproot a full grown tree. Do you have any strength feat of Hulk that shows he can take on 2 dozen of these vamps ganging up on him? Remember this is the ENTIRE TWIVERSE, not just a few handpicked vampires.

You keep mentioning Hulk stomping the ground but I don't recall him utilizing this move against multiple fast moving opponents. Since you're pulling the "Jasper hasn't used his ability in a fight" card then I'll have to ask for feats of Hulk doing what you claim.

What's to protect the vamps from Thor's hammer? Well, Jane crippling him with pain for one. Otherwise they could just use speed to dodge Thor.

So go ahead and post a clip of Hulk stomping the ground to disable multiple attackers.

Edward never pulled a tree, he pushed it (you really shouldn't debate on a thread that you haven't watched the movies for you know). And I see you are sidestepping the question. I asked you to provide proof that Hulk can overpower about 2 dozen vampires ganging up on them if the weakest ones are strong enough to uproot a tree.

IIRC, Jane can walk and talk while causing pain - but I'm not absolutely sure of this. It doesn't matter anyway, she can stay still and just have her numerous other vamps either protect her or move her around. You seem to forget that this is the entire TWIVERSE and Underworld put together.

You listed a bunch of feats for Hulk that are great one on one, but none of them come close to the speed displayed by the vamps nor do they show how he will keep their numerous numbers from overpowering him.

And yes, Mjolnir isn't a sentient being like Dr. Strange's cape (at least it hasn't displayed any such characteristics). If Thor is crippled with pain and unable to command it, it isn't just going to attack the vamps on its own.

OP says that Thor can only go melee with his hammer.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So go ahead and post a clip of Hulk stomping the ground to disable multiple attackers.

Edward never pulled a tree, he pushed it (you really shouldn't debate on a thread that you haven't watched the movies for you know). And I see you are sidestepping the question. I asked you to provide proof that Hulk can overpower about 2 dozen vampires ganging up on them if the weakest ones are strong enough to uproot a tree.

IIRC, Jane can walk and talk while causing pain - but I'm not absolutely sure of this. It doesn't matter anyway, she can stay still and just have her numerous other vamps either protect her or move her around. You seem to forget that this is the entire TWIVERSE and Underworld put together.

You listed a bunch of feats for Hulk that are great one on one, but none of them come close to the speed displayed by the vamps nor do they show how he will keep their numerous numbers from overpowering him.

And yes, Mjolnir isn't a sentient being like Dr. Strange's cape (at least it hasn't displayed any such characteristics). If Thor is crippled with pain and unable to command it, it isn't just going to attack the vamps on its own. So basically you are going to keep saying I haven't watch a movie that you yourself have a mistakenly given powers to the wrong character and continue to not answer my questions. Hulk has never fought Vampires so obviously I can't post a feat of him doing so. So keep your lame argument that he can't smash the ground with multiple enemies. An assumption that you can't obviously back up.

Thanks for answering my question about Jasper.

So your basic argument is the Vamps are numerous and fast. Great. How many Vamps equal Hulk? Then you have Abomination and Thor. How many Vamps do they equal? There are only certain Vamps that are even worth mentioning.

Hulk was smashing numerous enemies in Avengers. Thor for melee attack can move his hammer at amazing speed to the point that the hammer is almost not visible as shown in the first Thor movie against the Frost Giants.

You haven't mentioned one feat. I agree to disagree with your lame argument.

Originally posted by Kotor3
So basically you are going to keep saying I haven't watch a movie that you yourself have a mistakenly given powers to the wrong character and continue to not answer my questions. Hulk has never fought Vampires so obviously I can't post a feat of him doing so. So keep your lame argument that he can't smash the ground with multiple enemies. An assumption that you can't obviously back up.

Thanks for answering my question about Jasper.

So your basic argument is the Vamps are numerous and fast. Great. How many Vamps equal Hulk? Then you have Abomination and Thor. How many Vamps do they equal? There are only certain Vamps that are even worth mentioning.

Hulk was smashing numerous enemies in Avengers. Thor for melee attack can move his hammer at amazing speed to the point that the hammer is almost not visible as shown in the first Thor movie against the Frost Giants.

You haven't mentioned one feat. I agree to disagree with your lame argument.

I'm not asking you to post a vid of Hulk fighting against Vamps, I'm asking you to post a vid of him stomping the ground and disabling multiple attackers. That's a fair request.

And when have I gotten a vamp's powers wrong?

Basing from Edward's tree uprooting feat I'm tempted to say that he's as strong as Thor. I mean, what has Thor's best strength feat been? But since I'm a Thor fan, let's go ahead and say 3 vamps are equal to Thor in strength. Which means what, 6-10 vamps should be equal to Hulk's strength? You have hundreds of vamps in this fight.

And you keep dodging the fact that they have superspeed. Hulk had trouble hitting Thor, heck he couldn't even hit Blonsky. You can't act like the superspeed isn't a huge factor in this fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm not asking you to post a vid of Hulk fighting against Vamps, I'm asking you to post a vid of him stomping the ground and disabling multiple attackers. That's a fair request. He doesn't have one and you know that. It still doesn't prove that he cannot. He has been shown on screen to make sound waves and crush the ground. There is no reason to assume that he cannot do so if there are more than one opponent.

I see why you are choosing this because you feel the Vamps hits can have a good effect on the Hulk and Team.

I don't agree. I feel only a few of the top ones would have any significant effect.

Hulk has shown the ability but you want to excuse it from being used since he hasn't shown it one screen where as you cannot not state one instance in which Jasper performed his ability in battle.

If you want to go that route then this discussion is going to become really stupid.

Still, I cannot recall an instance in which the Vamps are performing their abilities while moving. As stated before they all seem to have to concentrate and stand still while performing there abilities.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And when have I gotten a vamp's powers wrong? You did assign or link Jasper's abilities to that of Jane's brother. Just because I watch the garbage movie one time doesn't mean I did not watch it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Basing from Edward's tree uprooting feat I'm tempted to say that he's as strong as Thor. I mean, what has Thor's best strength feat been? But since I'm a Thor fan, let's go ahead and say 3 vamps are equal to Thor in strength. Which means what, 6-10 vamps should be equal to Hulk's strength? You have hundreds of vamps in this fight. I feel you are downplaying Thor's strength a lot as well as the Hulk's. Vamps vary in strength. Thor contended with Hulk while holding back. Once again I don't think you are giving Thor or Hulk enough credit. Hulk flung a tank like it was rope.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And you keep dodging the fact that they have superspeed. Hulk had trouble hitting Thor, heck he couldn't even hit Blonsky. You can't act like the superspeed isn't a huge factor in this fight. Yes the speed is a factor. However, the difference is I don't see it like you do in which the Hulk would not be able to hit one of them. Hulk is not slow and they would have to get close to him to hit him.

You seem to fought that if Jasper cannot keep Hulk calm, (which I don't believe he can with the Hulk constantly getting hit) hitting the Hulk and making him miss hits will only irritate him and fuel his anger.

Originally posted by Kotor3
He doesn't have one and you know that. It still doesn't prove that he cannot. He has been shown on screen to make sound waves and crush the ground. There is no reason to assume that he cannot do so if there are more than one opponent.

I see why you are choosing this because you feel the Vamps hits can have a good effect on the Hulk and Team.

I don't agree. I feel only a few of the top ones would have any significant effect.

Hulk has shown the ability but you want to excuse it from being used since he hasn't shown it one screen where as you cannot not state one instance in which Jasper performed his ability in battle.

If you want to go that route then this discussion is going to become really stupid.

Still, I cannot recall an instance in which the Vamps are performing their abilities while moving. As stated before they all seem to have to concentrate and stand still while performing there abilities.

You did assign or link Jasper's abilities to that of Jane's brother. Just because I watch the garbage movie one time doesn't mean I did not watch it.

I feel you are downplaying Thor's strength a lot as well as the Hulk's. Vamps vary in strength. Thor contended with Hulk while holding back. Once again I don't think you are giving Thor or Hulk enough credit. Hulk flung a tank like it was rope.

Yes the speed is a factor. However, the difference is I don't see it like you do in which the Hulk would not be able to hit one of them. Hulk is not slow and they would have to get close to him to hit him.

You seem to fought that if Jasper cannot keep Hulk calm, (which I don't believe he can with the Hulk constantly getting hit) hitting the Hulk and making him miss hits will only irritate him and fuel his anger.



So you are assigning a feat to Hulk which he has no feats of doing in the movie. And yet you are asking for proof that Jasper can calm Hulk down while in the middle of a fight. Double standard much? Asking for proof of a feat is a valid request. Either provide some proof or it is invalid.

And FYI, Jasper affects emotions as soon as he walks into a room. While talking, while eating, etc.

I never claimed that Jane's brother will calm Hulk down by messing with his emotions. I said he will calm Hulk down, and when I asked to clarify I said he would do so by sensory deprivation.

Yes, vamp's vary in strength, with Edward stating he was one of the weaker ones. It was also stated that newly born vampires are some of the strongest vampires. The new vamps are numerous in the Twiverse.

I think you're underestimating the vampire's strength and their numbers. I'm still waiting for you to provide proof that Hulk can survive getting swarmed by 2 dozen vamps. Actually I'll make it easier for you. Provide proof that he can overpower a dozen vampires, considering that these vamps are at least as strong as Edward who can uproot a tree.

Then maybe you can provide a strength feat from Thor that can rival that tree pushing feat. Then again, you don't seem capable of posting any feats but just continue to speculate.

And as for the speed, well, Hulk is fast for his size but couldn't even hit Blonsky who only had enhanced speed and reflexes. The vampires have true superspeed, able to move fast enough that they can perform complex maneouvers all in a blur. You have provided zero evidence to show that Hulk can keep up with them.

^^^^^^

I think people are forgetting that this is 2 whole universes. I'd wager these guys get overwhelmed even if you clone team 1 so it's doubles of thor and such. 2 universes.. That's a WHOLE LOT OF SPEED AND STRENGTH. Forget hulk overpowering 2 dozen vamps. He will be swarmed by more than thousands (millions?). Tbh the thread is spite the more you sit and think about it. Ronan goes down first being swarmed within minutes. Then thor eventually just gets pinned due to sheer numbers I feel. You can argue the merits of hulk taking on few dozen twi vamps all day but..thousands? all with ten times greater speed and decent strength? Newborns? Not to mention the ancients and heavy hitters of the underworld universe jumping in the dog pile? Eh.

Just want to point out, in relation to Vamps having to always stand still and concentrate to use their abilities... That's not true. Alice, for example, was shown using her precog in the middle of a sparring match with Jasper. And it was still remarked that this made her someone difficult to deal with in a fight, IIRC.

Oh, and as for Jasper himself, it was shown that he actually has to make a conscious effort NOT to constantly manipulate the emotions of those around him. And he was actually one of the few vampires who could affect Bella, IIRC, even with her immunity shield thing. Also, he could stalemate Edward in a fight, despite the latter's telepathy (though he admitted that he couldn't beat him, precisely due to the fact that Edward can read his mind in combat).

Oh he's smashed the ground and clapped his hands alright, I just don't recall him smashing the ground strong enough to incapacitate multiple opponents - since that's what you're claiming he can do. I'm not asking you to provide proof that he fought vampires, I'm asking you to provide proof that he can do what you're claiming he can do. Otherwise you're just using no-limits fallacy.
Stop being so deliberately obtuse.

I've also answered you regarding Jasper already. Jasper can affect emotions as soon as he enters a room, as soon as anyone is near him. He doesn't even need to concentrate on it. Check Vault's response for further clarification. So yes, he can use it in combat, especially if all he really needs to do is avoid Hulks attacks all the while working to keep him calm.

I noticed you completely sidestepped my question on how Hulk can stop getting overpowered by dozens of vampires. Can I assume that means you concede?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Oh he's smashed the ground and clapped his hands alright, I just don't recall him smashing the ground strong enough to incapacitate multiple opponents - since that's what you're claiming he can do. I'm not asking you to provide proof that he fought vampires, I'm asking you to provide proof that he can do what you're claiming he can do. Otherwise you're just using no-limits fallacy.
Stop being so deliberately obtuse.

I've also answered you regarding Jasper already. Jasper can affect emotions as soon as he enters a room, as soon as anyone is near him. He doesn't even need to concentrate on it. Check Vault's response for further clarification. So yes, he can use it in combat, especially if all he really needs to do is avoid Hulks attacks all the while working to keep him calm.

I noticed you completely sidestepped my question on how Hulk can stop getting overpowered by dozens of vampires. Can I assume that means you concede? Lets put this into perspective. First I never side step the question about being overpowered. If you read my response you would have noticed that I stated specifically that Hulk getting hit would only increase his anger making him more powerful. It would not work to the advantage for the Vamps.

In each of the video below (since this is composite Hulk) there are scenes were hulk is getting hit and the hits and the sight of his opponent adds to his anger and increases his strength.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYt4FXho0j0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJDxrPuDB_U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMdvKBogo_g

For me personally, you have to be at Reeves Superman strength in my opinion in order to overpower the Hulk.

Two: Jasper in every battle scene ran into battle. His ability did not seem to give him any added advantage. But lets say he can use his ability while fighting simultaneously. This brings me to my point that if the Vamps are attacking Hulk when his emotions are being calm then that would only counter anything Jasper would do since the attacks would make Hulk anger.

Three: The Vamps in underworld as well as Twilight vary in strength. Especially Underworld where age is a factor. So no matter how many you throw at Hulk, Thor or Abomination only a few of them really matter. The rest would get destroyed quickly. That brings me to my Third point that most of the Vamps would be nothing but distractions and would not be effective in this battle.

Four: Hulk has thrown tanks like toys, Thor has contended with Hulk while holding back and Hulk has strangled Abomination. Hulk skin has taken missiles and bits from mutated animals.

My point is this battle is really only between a few people. The rest of the Vamps are nothing but distractions. So I see this as a battle.

Side point I have no argument for you equating three Vamps to Hulk's or Thor's strength. I say Hulk equals the strength of 10 Selena's or more and that is a starting point.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Lets put this into perspective. First I never side step the question about being overpowered. If you read my response you would have noticed that I stated specifically that Hulk getting hit would only increase his anger making him more powerful. It would not work to the advantage for the Vamps.

In each of the video below (since this is composite Hulk) there are scenes were hulk is getting hit and the hits and the sight of his opponent adds to his anger and increases his strength.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYt4FXho0j0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJDxrPuDB_U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMdvKBogo_g

For me personally, you have to be at Reeves Superman strength in my opinion in order to overpower the Hulk.

Two: Jasper in every battle scene ran into battle. His ability did not seem to give him any added advantage. But lets say he can use his ability while fighting simultaneously. This brings me to my point that if the Vamps are attacking Hulk when his emotions are being calm then that would only counter anything Jasper would do since the attacks would make Hulk anger.

Three: The Vamps in underworld as well as Twilight vary in strength. Especially Underworld where age is a factor. So no matter how many you throw at Hulk, Thor or Abomination only a few of them really matter. The rest would get destroyed quickly. That brings me to my Third point that most of the Vamps would be nothing but distractions and would not be effective in this battle.

Four: Hulk has thrown tanks like toys, Thor has contended with Hulk while holding back and Hulk has strangled Abomination. Hulk skin has taken missiles and bits from mutated animals.

My point is this battle is really only between a few people. The rest of the Vamps are nothing but distractions. So I see this as a battle.

Side point I have no argument for you equating three Vamps to Hulk's or Thor's strength. I say Hulk equals the strength of 10 Selena's or more and that is a starting point.

1. Hulk may get angrier as he gets hit but he also gets hurt. Abom showed that with enough hits Hulk isn't able to get angry enough to counter getting nearly knocked out. Hulk's "getting stronger as he gets angrier" isn't linear. You don't just keep adding strength in proportion to the number of hits he takes. It also takes him time to grow in strength. A couple dozen vamps swarming him will overpower him before he has a chance to get angry enough.

2. You forget that they also have a vampire who can see the future. That's a huge advantage which will tell them how best to deal with Hulk. If it shows that the best strategy to do that is for no vamps to engage Hulk and for Jasper to simply try and calm him down while dodging his attacks then that's what will happen. The team has no answer at all for this precog advantage.

3. Yes vampire strength varies, however, the strongest of them are the newborns and they just so happen to be the most numerous as well. Which means majority of the vampire grunts that will be attacking will have the most physical strength.

4. I never questioned Hulk's strength. But you seem to underestimate the vampire's strength. While none of them can toss a tank like Hulk did, uprooting a tree isn't that far behind. Heck, that monster poodle in Hulk 2003 couldn't even break through a car's windshield and Hulk had trouble with 3 of them. Could you image what 100 vampires would do to Hulk?

You seem to be trying to find a way to diminish the impact of numbers here. Your points would carry more weight if the fodder were all weak and easily destroyed. But each vampire is not only very strong and tough in their own right, they're also ridiculously fast. It would be like a barracuda taking on a school of piranha.

Originally posted by FrothByte
But each vampire is not only very strong and tough in their own right, they're also ridiculously fast. It would be like a barracuda taking on a school of piranha.

Yeah, that's the issue: ALL of the Twivamps are super strong and super fast. We've seen speed, reaction, and agility feats from vamps like James, Edward, Alice, Aro, and Jasper - from about all the Twivamps actually - that outclass anyone on the team. And the werewolves like Jacob. And the newborns from Eclipse. Plus, they're working with Underworld characters like Michael, Viktor, Selene, Markus, William, Lucian, etc., who, if nothing else, are extremely numerous as well and, at worst, are above average fodder that can distract and tussle with the team until the big dogs from the Twilight verse put everyone down.

Also, don't know if anyone mentioned him yet, but Alec is the Volturi vampire that has the sensory deprivation powers. From Twilight Wikia:

"Alec can create a mist or fog which upon contact with someone paralyzes them and cuts off all, or some of their senses as he desires. This ability does not reach full effect instantly, as Jane's ability does, but creeps upon the victim. In the movie, he channels the power through his hands; it takes the form of a visible black smoke that slowly moves toward his target, though he can retract it with his mind. In Breaking Dawn, Alec tries to cut off the Cullen's and their witnesses senses. It appeared as a mist, but had no effect on them due to Bella's shield."

Combine the numbers with their accompanying stats (especially speed and reflexes) from both universes with Alec's sensory dep., Jane's pain illusion, Edward's telepathy, and Alice's precog, PLUS Thor having to fight melee, this fight is spite against the Marvel crew.

Ronan with the gem = death for the two universes.

Thor having the ability to fly and spam AoE lightning and ground slams, and the team has a chance. With the current stips, no way.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Yeah, that's the issue: ALL of the Twivamps are super strong and super fast. We've seen speed, reaction, and agility feats from vamps like James, Edward, Alice, Aro, and Jasper - from about all the Twivamps actually - that outclass anyone on the team. And the werewolves like Jacob. And the newborns from Eclipse. Plus, they're working with Underworld characters like Michael, Viktor, Selene, Markus, William, Lucian, etc., who, if nothing else, are extremely numerous as well and, at worst, are above average fodder that can distract and tussle with the team until the big dogs from the Twilight verse put everyone down.

None of them are strong enough to do any physical damage to the likes of Hulk or Thor.

Strength also does vary, yep: random featless Underworld vamp or Twilight vampire are getting one shotted by Thor or Hulk.



It's a slow moving mist with no real reason for us to assume a thunder clap wouldn't disperse it.



The team only "has a chance" if Thor can do all the things you say? Bro, Thor alone stomps this fight if he is allowed to go all out. Most everybody dies from the lightning spam, and anyone left alive can't harm Thor with their hits.

Hell, Hulk hits Thor and all we see is a small amount of blood is drawn and Thor smiles. Not a single person from Twilight or Underworld hits with the strength and force of the Hulk or Hulk. No, not even that one guy. Also no, not even that other vampire you are thinking of or even that other other vampire you might be thinking of, none do.

amVfFRNmDE4

None do.

Originally posted by Surtur
None of them are strong enough to do any physical damage to the likes of Hulk or Thor.

Strength also does vary, yep: random featless Underworld vamp or Twilight vampire are getting one shotted by Thor or Hulk.



It's a slow moving mist with no real reason for us to assume a thunder clap wouldn't disperse it.



The team only "has a chance" if Thor can do all the things you say? Bro, Thor alone stomps this fight if he is allowed to go all out. Most everybody dies from the lightning spam, and anyone left alive can't harm Thor with their hits.

Hell, Hulk hits Thor and all we see is a small amount of blood is drawn and Thor smiles. Not a single person from Twilight or Underworld hits with the strength and force of the Hulk or Hulk. No, not even that one guy. Also no, not even that other vampire you are thinking of or even that other other vampire you might be thinking of, none do.

amVfFRNmDE4

None do.

How do you know that none of them are strong enough to hurt Hulk or Thor? Seems you're assuming much.

Edward is strong enough to uproot a tree without much effort and the vamps are strong enough to crush marble and stone without effort. And we haven't even seen the upper limits of their strength. To assume that Hulk and Thor won't be hurt by clearly superhuman opponents seems to verge on a no limits fallacy.

And even if they can't harm him, Hulk can't hit them anyway. So they run around and tire Hulk out, because we've seen that Hulk does get tired and winded

Originally posted by Surtur
Hell, Hulk hits Thor and all we see is a small amount of blood is drawn and Thor smiles. Not a single person from Twilight or Underworld hits with the strength and force of the Hulk or Hulk. No, not even that one guy. Also no, not even that other vampire you are thinking of or even that other other vampire you might be thinking of, none do.

Not even the other vampire that's thinking of the vampire I'm thinking of? Ya, that's about my knowledge on the Twilight stuff, because it's "turribull" (Charles Barkley version of "terrible" entertainment.

For reals tho, the EXTREME numbers difference plus Thor having a gimping put on him = IMO, a loss of the team. We're talking like 200+ vs 4.

I would be on the sidelines cheering for team MCU though.

In the other Twilight vs. MCU thread I placed my bet on the MCU team, but that's because the numbers were even.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In the other Twilight vs. MCU thread I placed my bet on the MCU team, but that's because the numbers were even.

Ya, plus in that one there are two Thanos-type of villains (sit in chairs, look menacing): Marcus and Caius who never did anything except look bored and be a discount Dante from Devil May Cry.

Is this Ang Lee Hulk or MCU Hulk or an amalgam of his best showings?

i'm believe it is a composite of each character with their best showings.

First off, I don't consider Marcus or Selene the strongest vamps (mostly because I don't recall most of their feats) but let me address your point about helicopters.

First of all, Cap did not stop that chopper with just one hand. He used both hands, one of was holding on to a fixed structure. Braced against a fixed structure. Let that settle in for a second. Marcus on the other hand pulled down a helicopter without grabbing on to anything. That is a lot harder. Also, there's a huge difference between pulling down a helicopter and just stopping it from taking off. Cap did not cause the helicopter to crash, that was Winter Soldier crashing the helicopter. Cap only stopped it from taking off, he wasn't strong enough to bring it down.

Now, watch some of the fight scenes of the twilight vampires. They can jump a hundred feet through the air and their normal hits send their opponents flying dozens of meters through the air. Compare that to Thor, he doesn't jump that powerfully nor does he send his opponents flying as casually, at least not without Mjolnir.

Yet he was strong enough to turn Hulk 360 with a single punch. As far as strength feats go, the vamps actually have better strength feats than Thor, and yet Thor was already strong enough to hurt Hulk even without Mjolnir.

I also don't think you understand just how hard it is to uproot a tree. Someone posted some physics about it some time ago, I don't recall now, but I'm pretty sure it was quite a few tons. And though that's not as heavy as a tank, it's close enough that Hulk won't be able to take on too many vampires with that kind of strength. Take note that Edward put little effort into pushing that tree whereas Hulk had to gain momentum to throw that tank like he did.

Plus there's no getting around the fact that no one on the MCU team can even lay a hand on the vampires. They're just too fast.

So how many of the vamps can hit as hard as a 30 megaton nuclear weapon? Because thats the only thing we have seen that has enough force to knock Thor unconcious.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
So how many of the vamps can hit as hard as a 30 megaton nuclear weapon? Because thats the only thing we have seen that has enough force to knock Thor unconcious.

Where did you get the 30 megaton nuclear weapon number from?

The vamps can just bite Thor you know. They won't need to knock him out. Or they can just overpower him and drown him or something, can't remember if Thor needs air to breathe.

Personally, I think Abom is the biggest threat here. Hulk can be calmed down but it doesn't work on Abom.

Originally posted by Kotor3
i'm believe it is a composite of each character with their best showings.

I see no stip indicating that this is a composite-"feat" Hulk.

But if it was, then I believe Hulk would win any physical fight by himself due to using the combined savagery/strength/durability "feats" of MCU Hulk and the regen/speed/amping of Ang Lee Hulk.

We're talking about a rocket-backhanding, aircraft cannon/Chitauri glider cannon soaking, Leviathan-punching, anger-amping rage machine with a healing factor.

Vampire's chances skyrocket due to exotics, however.

Also, to believe that the tree push (w/c seems like a top end "feat" for vamps) is 1/6th Hulk's strength, one has to believe that such a push is within the 100+ ton range as Hulk's top end "feat" (Leviathan punch) IIRC was computed to be in the thousand(s) of tons as Ang Lee Hulk isn't the strongest Hulk (by "feats".

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I see no stip indicating that this is a composite-"feat" Hulk.

But if it was, then I believe Hulk would win any physical fight by himself due to using the combined savagery/strength/durability "feats" of MCU Hulk and the regen/speed/amping of Ang Lee Hulk.

We're talking about a rocket-backhanding, aircraft cannon/Chitauri glider cannon soaking, Leviathan-punching, anger-amping rage machine with a healing factor.

Vampire's chances skyrocket due to exotics, however.

Also, to believe that the tree push (w/c seems like a top end "feat" for vamps) is 1/6th Hulk's strength, one has to believe that such a push is within the 100+ ton range as Hulk's top end "feat" (Leviathan punch) IIRC was computed to be in the thousand(s) of tons as Ang Lee Hulk isn't the strongest Hulk (by "feats".

I'm willing to haggle exactly how much more stronger Hulk is over a vamp. I only based the 1/6 estimate on Thor being 1/2 Hulk strength . I will point out though that the tree uprooting feat was performed by a self admitted weak-ish vampire who did the feat pretty effortlessly. So I definitely would not call it a top end vamp feat. We can also use Bella casually smashing rock just by arm wrestling on top of it.

Anyway, even if 1/6 Hulk strength is too high an estimate, I seriously doubt Hulk can over power more than 20 vamps, and that's not even taking into account their massive speed advantage or their exotic abilities

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm willing to haggle exactly how much more stronger Hulk is over a vamp. I only based the 1/6 estimate on Thor being 1/2 Hulk strength . I will point out though that the tree uprooting feat was performed by a self admitted weak-ish vampire who did the feat pretty effortlessly. So I definitely would not call it a top end vamp feat. We can also use Bella casually smashing rock just by arm wrestling on top of it.

Anyway, even if 1/6 Hulk strength is too high an estimate, I seriously doubt Hulk can over power more than 20 vamps, and that's not even taking into account their massive speed advantage or their exotic abilities

Scaling only works in the absence of "feats" and is in itself a poor means of quantification. In the presence of actual "fears", "feats" take precedence. Thor being 1/2 Hulk would upgrade Thor's strength, not downgrade Hulk's as Hulk has the more pronounced strength "feats".

The tree push is a top end vamp "feat" as no other vampire has demonstrated comparable/higher "feats". It doesn't mean he is the strongest. Only that, as showings go, this is an outlier. So we compare outliers with outliers to create a fairer comparison. And it was not effortless, there was definite strain on his face as he did the push:

https://youtu.be/qgWmpPudTEQ (0:57).

Plus the tree push has yet to be quantified. I once tried to ask an old physics prof buddy to do it for me some time back but he refused to watch a bad movie to quantify fictional "feats" as it was a silly waste of his time.

I would believe, based on "feats", that even 20 vamps would be unable to match his strength. Maybe 50-100 could overpower him (even then, I have my doubts).

Ang Lee Hulk cassually dodged and backhanded air-to-surface rockets fired from a Comanche gunship. Twice.

https://youtu.be/9j3KAnX0Nhk

(1:42-1:43)

Which (if I'm correct) can go as fast as Mach 1.3 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire). There is no "massive speed advantage" that Ang Lee Hulk cannot react to as Ang Lee Hulk was no slouch in terms of speed.

Like I said, composite "feat" Hulk is practically physically unbeatable if used in this fight. Exotics is their only chance IMO.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Scaling only works in the absence of "feats" and is in itself a poor means of quantification. In the presence of actual "fears", "feats" take precedence. Thor being 1/2 Hulk would upgrade Thor's strength, not downgrade Hulk's as Hulk has the more pronounced strength "feats".

The tree push is a top end vamp "feat" as no other vampire has demonstrated comparable/higher "feats". It doesn't mean he is the strongest. Only that, as showings go, this is an outlier. So we compare outliers with outliers to create a fairer comparison. And it was not effortless, there was definite strain on his face as he did the push:

https://youtu.be/qgWmpPudTEQ (0:57).

Plus the tree push has yet to be quantified. I once tried to ask an old physics prof buddy to do it for me some time back but he refused to watch a bad movie to quantify fictional "feats" as it was a silly waste of his time.

I would believe, based on "feats", that even 20 vamps would be unable to match his strength. Maybe 50-100 could overpower him (even then, I have my doubts).

Ang Lee Hulk cassually dodged and backhanded air-to-surface rockets fired from a Comanche gunship. Twice.

https://youtu.be/9j3KAnX0Nhk

(1:42-1:43)

Which (if I'm correct) can go as fast as Mach 1.3 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire). There is no "massive speed advantage" that Ang Lee Hulk cannot react to as Ang Lee Hulk was no slouch in terms of speed.

Like I said, composite "feat" Hulk is practically physically unbeatable if used in this fight. Exotics is their only chance IMO.


Yes, there is a massive speed advantage. Because even though Hulk backhanding that rocket was a good speed feat, that rocket travels in a straight trajectory towards Hulk. It is not intelligent enough to avoid being swatted away nor is it capable of making complex maneuvers to confuse Hulk. It's the same reason why baseball players may easily catch and hit a baseball but will have trouble catching a fly. The vampires are able to perform complex maneuvers at super speed, Hulk has never shown the ability to keep up with something like that. Heck, Ang Lee Hulk had trouble keeping up 3 mutated dogs. Unless of course you want to claim these dogs also had super speed.

Speaking of dogs, the poodle didn't have enough strength to smash through a car's windshield and yet Hulk had trouble with it.

Now on to Avenger's Hulk which you claimed is the strongest. If we are to assume your computation on the Leviathan punch measures in the thousands of tons, then Hulk should have been able to completely smash Loki through the floor when he slammed him multiple times. This Hulk should have been able to launch cars with a flick of his finger. He never did any of these, which makes me question where we got the thousands of tons number from.

We do not actually know the mass of the leviathans or what kind of force is necessary to get one to flip. Remember that Hulk was unable to completely stop the momentum of one.

And then there are the exotic vampire abilites. From sensory deprivation to making hallucinations to pain inducement to earthquake powers, etc.

As for Edward straining with the tree, it took him a second to push it down. I did say he did it pretty effortlessly, not completely effortlessly. That's still a good feat showing that he didn't really struggle with.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, there is a massive speed advantage. Because even though Hulk backhanding that rocket was a good speed feat, that rocket travels in a straight trajectory towards Hulk. It is not intelligent enough to avoid being swatted away nor is it capable of making complex maneuvers to confuse Hulk. It's the same reason why baseball players may easily catch and hit a baseball but will have trouble catching a fly. The vampires are able to perform complex maneuvers at super speed, Hulk has never shown the ability to keep up with something like that. Heck, Ang Lee Hulk had trouble keeping up 3 mutated dogs. Unless of course you want to claim these dogs also had super speed.

Speaking of dogs, the poodle didn't have enough strength to smash through a car's windshield and yet Hulk had trouble with it.

Now on to Avenger's Hulk which you claimed is the strongest. If we are to assume your computation on the Leviathan punch measures in the thousands of tons, then Hulk should have been able to completely smash Loki through the floor when he slammed him multiple times. This Hulk should have been able to launch cars with a flick of his finger. He never did any of these, which makes me question where we got the thousands of tons number from.

We do not actually know the mass of the leviathans or what kind of force is necessary to get one to flip. Remember that Hulk was unable to completely stop the momentum of one.

And then there are the exotic vampire abilites. From sensory deprivation to making hallucinations to pain inducement to earthquake powers, etc.

It proves that Hulk has considerable superhuman speed as I don't see any human capable of casually swatting anything moving at Mach 1.3. And how fast exactly were the vampires moving anyway? Were they even moving considerably faster than Hulk did as he evaded the gunships? Complex maneuvers are fine and all, but they would still need to come at Hulk at a straight line to optimize their speed and to get thru Hulk's huge reach advantage and need to come at him in large enough numbers to overcome his strength. He doesn't need to swat them all, just enough of them to prevent their numbers from overcoming him while shaking off those already on him. As the scenario goes, tactically speaking, Hulk has too many things going for him that can offset whatever advantage their maneuverability gives them. Unless you're saying that they'll just play keepaway til Hulk gets bored/tired?

We do not use low end showings when determining what a character is capable of. Especially a composite one (as those tend to get best of worlds showings). Hulk has shown super speed in easily quantifiable showings. I do not know if the dogs had superspeed or not, but I don't need to prove that they do as Hulk has already shown that he quantifiably does in other showings. And we use MCU Hulk for strength showings, cancelling out the dogs' low strength showing into irrelevance.

Here is the computation on the Leviathan punch someone did: https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/175660/any-official-sizes-on-chitauri-leviathans-from-the-avengers-movie

He seems to put it at 3000 tons. Which, btw, alreay considered the distance/time it took to stop the Leviathan in its tracks. Lemme know where his math was off as I am simply basing it off this.

And the Loki smash was actually consistent with this. Concrete has a compression strength of 4400-6000 PSI. Creating a man-sized crater would mean impact forces in the thousand+ ton range.

Character showings tend to be inconsistent so him not always looking like he is exerting 1000 ton strength isn't really a good basis of where his strength would be on the top end.

That is, of course, assuming this is composite Hulk.

I already acknowledged that exotics would work. So that is not under debate atm.

Effortless, by definition, means no effort. Him doing it quickly does not mean he did it effortlessly. Strain was evident in his face. I can push over a much larger guy than me if I put all my strength into it, it won't take longer than a second but it still needed me to put everything I had in it. And the problem still exists that we don't know how much strength it would take to push over a tree.

Originally posted by FrothByte
First off, I don't consider Marcus or Selene the strongest vamps (mostly because I don't recall most of their feats) but let me address your point about helicopters.

First of all, Cap did not stop that chopper with just one hand. He used both hands, one of was holding on to a fixed structure. Braced against a fixed structure. Let that settle in for a second. Marcus on the other hand pulled down a helicopter without grabbing on to anything. That is a lot harder. Also, there's a huge difference between pulling down a helicopter and just stopping it from taking off. Cap did not cause the helicopter to crash, that was Winter Soldier crashing the helicopter. Cap only stopped it from taking off, he wasn't strong enough to bring it down. Marcus pull down a helicopter that was stationary and was caught off guard and it took him two hands and more than one try whereas Cap pull down and kept a helicopter clearly intended to take off and go in the opposite direction in which he was pulling. Capt definitely had the more difficult task. You trying to downplay that feat is laughable.

Please tell me what Vamps in Twlight are stronger than Marcus or Selena?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Now, watch some of the fight scenes of the twilight vampires. They can jump a hundred feet through the air and their normal hits send their opponents flying dozens of meters through the air. Compare that to Thor, he doesn't jump that powerfully nor does he send his opponents flying as casually, at least not without Mjolnir.
Yet he was strong enough to turn Hulk 360 with a single punch. As far as strength feats go, the vamps actually have better strength feats than Thor, and yet Thor was already strong enough to hurt Hulk even without Mjolnir. Here you go again. I provide legitimate feats and videos to back up my statements and you make statements with no backing. A normal hits sends what Vamps flying dozens of meters? Or is it humans? Please provide examples. Unless the Frost Giants that Thor was sending flying and crushing are nothing to you. Thor was able to affect a Hulk and stop his punch with one arm initially that could contend with Abom and Ultron. Also a Hulk that smash and alien ship with one hit.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I also don't think you understand just how hard it is to uproot a tree. Someone posted some physics about it some time ago, I don't recall now, but I'm pretty sure it was quite a few tons. And though that's not as heavy as a tank, it's close enough that Hulk won't be able to take on too many vampires with that kind of strength. Take note that Edward put little effort into pushing that tree whereas Hulk had to gain momentum to throw that tank like he did.

Plus there's no getting around the fact that no one on the MCU team can even lay a hand on the vampires. They're just too fast. Here we go with the tree again. Lets go with that silly comparison. So the majority of Vamps can perform this feat? I would like you for a change to list some strength or power feats from the Vamps in Twlight universe since you are so high on this universe and say I never saw the movies.

LOL that Hulk had to gain momentum because he wanted to play and swing the tank around before tossing it like a toy.

LOL, Here are the best fight scenes from Twilight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU5L4YSZXSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpWh3d_qd0

There is nothing remotely within these videos that show the Vamps are two fast or strong for the Hulk, Thor, or Abom. Vamps were out from being slammed into concrete heads taken of like nothing.

Team would knock off the heads of the Vamps with easy. Oh and Jasper abilities didn't seem to help him or anyone else in the battle. Nothing in the those videos show super or superior speed to someone who is able to outrun bullets and missiles.

Yep, the power levels just aren't comparable.

Hulk and Thor win effortlessly

Originally posted by Kotor3
LOL, Here are the best fight scenes from Twilight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU5L4YSZXSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpWh3d_qd0

There is nothing remotely within these videos that show the Vamps are two fast or strong for the Hulk, Thor, or Abom. Vamps were out from being slammed into concrete heads taken of like nothing.

Team would knock off the heads of the Vamps with easy. Oh and Jasper abilities didn't seem to help him or anyone else in the battle. Nothing in the those videos show super or superior speed to someone who is able to outrun bullets and missiles.

Really? Show me Thor or Hulk moving or reacting anywhere near this fast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEXsOOVWuGA

Originally posted by Kotor3
LOL, Here are the best fight scenes from Twilight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU5L4YSZXSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpWh3d_qd0

There is nothing remotely within these videos that show the Vamps are two fast or strong for the Hulk, Thor, or Abom. Vamps were out from being slammed into concrete heads taken of like nothing.

Team would knock off the heads of the Vamps with easy. Oh and Jasper abilities didn't seem to help him or anyone else in the battle. Nothing in the those videos show super or superior speed to someone who is able to outrun bullets and missiles.

Not being facetious, but who out of the MCU group can outrun bullets and/or missiles?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Really? Show me Thor or Hulk moving or reacting anywhere near this fast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEXsOOVWuGA

I think we've made our peace, Froth. It's a beatdown for the Twilight/Underworld universes vs 4 MCU characters, one of which has two massive tools in his arsenal (Thor's flight and AoE attacks) taken from him. Again, let Thor go all out, then we have a way different battle on deck.

Honestly, after watching the latest Underworld film, I'd put current Selene as the fastest person in this thread. After her latest amp, if she decides she actually wants to move quickly, she is so fast it almost seems like she is teleporting, even relative to other Underworld vampires and lycans.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Honestly, after watching the latest Underworld film, I'd put current Selene as the fastest person in this thread. After her latest amp, if she decides she actually wants to move quickly, she is so fast it almost seems like she is teleporting, even relative to other Underworld vampires and lycans.

Wow. I haven't seen Blood Wars. I'm only up to date as of Evolution/Rise of the Lycans-ish in the universe timeline.