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Restrictions:
no 3rd Kazekage puppet

Fight in a random sunagakure desert
Who wins?

the 4th stomps sasori to pieces

What? The 4th kazekage doesn't really even have any feats, outside of contending with general Gaara. That's not even that impressive, considering Sasori's feats. Taking out the third Kazekage, when he wasn't even that strong, and destroying an entire nation.

And don't bring up the Chiyo/Sakura defeat, because Chiyo even said he let them win.

Sasori didnt kill the 3rd kazekege he just found his body.


I dont really see sasori getting past the 4ths defenses hes not fast enough

Well the Third was said to be stronger than the fourth so...

Originally posted by yungz22
Sasori didnt kill the 3rd kazekege he just found his body.
There is no reason to assume that.

Sasori wins. He killed the stronger Kazekage.

Originally posted by NemeBro
There is no reason to assume that.

Sasori wins. He killed the stronger Kazekage.



Did sasori actually say he killed him?


All that was said about the 3rd is that he disappeared. That doesnt automatically equate to sasori killing him

Sasori indeed does say that:
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-271-21/naruto/chapter-266.html

Though we don't have any specifics, Sasori himself states that he had to collect the 3rd Kazekage.

Oh ok i can admit when im wrong i mustve forgot him saying that

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
And don't bring up the Chiyo/Sakura defeat, because Chiyo even said he let them win.


Oh how convenient. A typical Naruto character cop out

Originally posted by Trocity
Oh how convenient. A typical Naruto character cop out

Um, yeah. That happens all the time in the HST. Read a book.

Either way, the third Kazekage > the fourth. Sasori killed the third.

Simple math shows Sasori > third > fourth.

Sasori wins.

Did the 4th have auto defense like gaara did

Originally posted by yungz22
Did the 4th have auto defense like gaara did No, Gaara's auto defence is a direct result of the Tailed beast. Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Um, yeah. That happens all the time in the HST. Read a book.

Either way, the third Kazekage > the fourth. Sasori killed the third.

Simple math shows Sasori > third > fourth.

Sasori wins. there is a real lack of context. For all we know Sasori could have spiked his drink.

They both have feats, lets use them.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

And don't bring up the Chiyo/Sakura defeat, because Chiyo even said he let them win.

Not really.

Sasori actively poisoned them both with poisons he believed to be fatal against them, and tried a would-be fatal sneak attack right at the end.

Chiyo merely said she thought Sasori could've avoided the one specific last attack. The one... with his parent's puppets. More than likely, it was just hesitation for psychology reasons. And he was still basically screwed at that point anyway.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
No, Gaara's auto defence is a direct result of the Tailed beast. there is a real lack of context. For all we know Sasori could have spiked his drink.

They both have feats, lets use them.

No, Gaara's auto defense is a result of his mothers will. It's explained that quite a few times.

The lack of context is irrelevant at that point. The reason they added that feat at all was because it fit in with Orochimaru killing Gaara's dad. Kishimoto wanted to illustrate the fact that Orochimaru was more or less a weakling compared to these people, which elevated the tension in the sense that the main characters had to step it up to be able to contend with them. Deidara and Sasori are both capable of taking out a jinchuriki solo, as we've been led to believe. The only ones who failed in capturing their biju were, ironically two of the strongest, Itachi and Kisame. Itachi, wtih Naruto, and Kisame with Killer Bee.

The statement is somewhat arguable, because Sasori DOES use poison to kill people, but that statement still shows more off than anything Gaara's dad has shown capable of, even as an edo.

I think we can all admit sasori's death was due to PIS.

Originally posted by yungz22
I think we can all admit sasori's death was due to PIS.

For once, I agree with you.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, Gaara's auto defense is a result of his mothers will. It's explained that quite a few times.

The lack of context is irrelevant at that point. The reason they added that feat at all was because it fit in with Orochimaru killing Gaara's dad. Kishimoto wanted to illustrate the fact that Orochimaru was more or less a weakling compared to these people, which elevated the tension in the sense that the main characters had to step it up to be able to contend with them. Deidara and Sasori are both capable of taking out a jinchuriki solo, as we've been led to believe. The only ones who failed in capturing their biju were, ironically two of the strongest, Itachi and Kisame. Itachi, wtih Naruto, and Kisame with Killer Bee.

The statement is somewhat arguable, because Sasori DOES use poison to kill people, but that statement still shows more off than anything Gaara's dad has shown capable of, even as an edo. , it's a dumb thing not supported by anything other than character statements. The tailed beast was guarding it's container, that's honestly the truth of the matter.

Orochimaru was Sasori's partner, and Sasori said Orochimaru > Deidara. Honestly only hax eyes have been shown to be > Oro in the akatsuki but its getting off topic.

Tbf Iron Sand hard counters 100% of Sasori's offence, some shenanigans had to be present.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
, it's a dumb thing not supported by anything other than character statements. The tailed beast was guarding it's container, that's honestly the truth of the matter.

Orochimaru was Sasori's partner, and Sasori said Orochimaru > Deidara. Honestly only hax eyes have been shown to be > Oro in the akatsuki but its getting off topic.

Tbf Iron Sand hard counters 100% of Sasori's offence, some shenanigans had to be present.

Well that is at least supported by statements. It being because of Shukaku is only supported by your assuming. Gaara, Gaara's father, and his uncle all said it was his mother. That's, apparently, why it took her shape when fighting the edo kage.

When did Sasori say Oro to be superior to Deidara? I believe he is, but I don't remember that.

Well, I think Sasori's gas/chakra thread combo would have done the trick.

Agree to disagree

When he was discussing his former partner he refered to Oro as his equal and he viewed himself as > Deidara.

The Iron sand should lock the puppets in place like against Chiyo, rendering them useless.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
, it's a dumb thing not supported by anything other than character statements. The tailed beast was guarding it's container, that's honestly the truth of the matter.

Orochimaru was Sasori's partner, and Sasori said Orochimaru > Deidara. Honestly only hax eyes have been shown to be > Oro in the akatsuki but its getting off topic.

Tbf Iron Sand hard counters 100% of Sasori's offence, some shenanigans had to be present.


If that was the case then it wouldnt still protect gaara after shukaku was extracted. Which is the exact opposite of what happened gaara has auto defense with or without shukaku.... Its his mothers will

Since extraction when has he displayed auto shields?

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Since extraction when has he displayed auto shields?

Have you not seen the fight between him and his father..... Or against madara or even againt sasuke after he fought madara

performance of 100 will overcome the 4th

Originally posted by yungz22
Have you not seen the fight between him and his father..... Or against madara or even againt sasuke after he fought madara the one with his father was dumb, i mean unless you view Gaara as a scrub who's mom >>> Kazekage... I'd rather assume Gaara subconsciously creates stuff that looks like his Mom. Vs Madara, Gaara seemed to be activity fighting, watch Lee vs Gaara from part one Gaara is blocking without even looking. Not sure what you are talking about the post Madara fight vs Sasuke but W/e.

You can break this down as either Gaara defends himself with minimal movement or Gaara's mom is Bijuu level and is the strongest Kaze-nin in the series without a single piece of evidence to support that other than a statement from Gaara's father that doesn't make any sence if you take it as a literal.

Pretty sure Sasori wins this fight lol.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
the one with his father was dumb, i mean unless you view Gaara as a scrub who's mom >>> Kazekage... I'd rather assume Gaara subconsciously creates stuff that looks like his Mom. Vs Madara, Gaara seemed to be activity fighting, watch Lee vs Gaara from part one Gaara is blocking without even looking. Not sure what you are talking about the post Madara fight vs Sasuke but W/e.

You can break this down as either Gaara defends himself with minimal movement or Gaara's mom is Bijuu level and is the strongest Kaze-nin in the series without a single piece of evidence to support that other than a statement from Gaara's father that doesn't make any sence if you take it as a literal. m


Oh ok so according to you even if it happens on panel it isnt true.

Even tho the actual characters since part 1 are telling us via dialouge that it is his mothers will that protects him.

If it makes absolutely no sence in the confines of the story, yes. Unless Gaata's mom also tried to kill a bunch of other random people when Gaara was a child.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
If it makes absolutely no sence in the confines of the story, yes. Unless Gaata's mom also tried to kill a bunch of other random people when Gaara was a child. gaaras auto defense has always been attributed to his mother theoughtout the story his mother loved him very much so that her will still lives within him and protects him

Idk how thats so farfetched when you have ppl like obito jumpin back from the dead and giving kakashi his sharingan from the gravr through chkra and will power.

Obito was also super uber, Gaara's mom was referenced on and off and other evidence strongly supports my stance like every time Gaara got mad and his sand piles formed claws or the multiple Shukaku statues Gaara made in battle.

Two kazekages, gaara's mother, and a jonin are 4 credible sources to the fact that is was his mothers will that protects him.


Your talking about when he fights yes he does control the sand to attack ppl but the auto defense is his mothers will. He doesnt control the sand when defending himself it acts on its own

If Gaara's mother was really this powerful dont you think she should have been Kazekage over her husband?

Originally posted by pym-ftw
If Gaara's mother was really this powerful dont you think she should have been Kazekage over her husband?

will power is not the same as physical stregnth.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
If Gaara's mother was really this powerful dont you think she should have been Kazekage over her husband?

B's more powerful than A.
Jiraiya was more powerful than Tsunade, as is Naruto.
When Kakashi was about to be chosen as the 6th Hokage, Naruto was more powerful than he was.


Kishi retconned the source of Gaara's auto-shield. It doesn't make sense, but it is what it is.

It is with every single other instance in Naruto.

Naruto's seal with his parents high end sealing jutsu so they could meet him
Obito becoming a So6p
the actual So6p

No one else has this ability

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
B's more powerful than A.
Jiraiya was more powerful than Tsunade, as is Naruto.
When Kakashi was about to be chosen as the 6th Hokage, Naruto was more powerful than he was.


Kishi retconned the source of Gaara's auto-shield. It doesn't make sense, but it is what it is. context yo,

Raikage seems to be inherited, as A was Chosen while B was a child
Jiraiya turned it down
Naruto was an idiot and was busy and compromised.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
context yo,

Raikage seems to be inherited, as A was Chosen while B was a child
Jiraiya turned it down
Naruto was an idiot and was busy and compromised.

Right back at you.

We don't know what Karura's circumstances or abilities were. What we do know, is that someone who is familiar with Shukaku, stated that the Auto-shield isn't Shukaku's ability (and Shukaku has never used it anyway). We know that Kages are not always the most powerful ninjas around.

And this is likely what yungz was talking about when he mentioned the Madara fight. Gaara blocks the first Susanoo despite his attention being focused on Mei's safety.

it wasnt retconned because it was stated in part 1

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Right back at you.

We don't know what Karura's circumstances or abilities were. What we do know, is that someone who is familiar with Shukaku, stated that the Auto-shield isn't Shukaku's ability (and Shukaku has never used it anyway). We know that Kages are not always the most powerful ninjas around.

And this is likely what yungz was talking about when he mentioned the Madara fight. Gaara blocks the first Susanoo despite his attention being focused on Mei's safety.
so her abilities were never mentioned so obviously So6p level. Lol
i think we should just agree to disagree.

Originally posted by pym-ftw

so her abilities were never mentioned so obviously So6p level. Lol
i think we should just agree to disagree.


gaara's mothers will has been commented on since part 1. and other credible sources since then.




just because you dont like it doesnt mean it isnt her will protecting him

Originally posted by pym-ftw

so her abilities were never mentioned so obviously So6p level. Lol
i think we should just agree to disagree.

Agreed. No point debating with you anymore. In-verse statements and displays of Gaara's auto-shield trump your assumptions.

Assume she had a Kekkei Genkai. Helps me get through life.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
If Gaara's mother was really this powerful dont you think she should have been Kazekage over her husband?

This argument is really unreasonable, it assumes that there is consistency in the Naruto universe

Lol yeahOriginally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Agreed. No point debating with you anymore. In-verse statements and displays of Gaara's auto-shield trump your assumptions. :Up: cool and I'll believe in the other 99.99% of the lore that contradicts that.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Lol yeah :Up: cool and I'll believe in the other 99.99% of the lore that contradicts that.


What contradicts it?



After the sukakku is taken out of gaara the sand is still protecting him on its own. How is that a contradiction

Again just because you dont like it doesnt negate the fact that its true.

Sorry if we bursted your bubble

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Assume she had a Kekkei Genkai. Helps me get through life.

Magnet release and Sand manipulation go hand in hand apparently. mmm

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Lol yeah :Up: cool and I'll believe in the other 99.99% of the lore that contradicts that.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Magnet release and Sand manipulation go hand in hand apparently. mmm



Whatever helps you sleep at night.


I dont think he even knows what contradicts it lol hes just in denial

Originally posted by yungz22
What contradicts it?

After the sukakku is taken out of gaara the sand is still protecting him on its own. How is that a contradiction

Again just because you dont like it doesnt negate the fact that its true.

Sorry if we bursted your bubble the fact no one other than the 2 sages can trancend death to protect someone... so iyo Gaara's mom >>> 1st Hokage

We already went over this part.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
the fact no one other than the 2 sages can trancend death to protect someone... so iyo Gaara's mom >>> 1st Hokage

We already went over this part.


His mother is not transcending death. Its not like shes coming back to life. Shes dead.

If you read the chapter it says somehow in death her love for gaara was so powerful that her will lived on in the gaaras sand.

Which obviously is the case because the sand still protects him on its own even when the shukakku was taken out of him.

The only time gaara actually controls the sand is when hes attacking. Even kakashi made a statement about it protecting him on its own.

The will thing doesnt contradict anything because its been stated more than once since part 1


If its been stated since part 1 its not a contradiction.

It's the same thing Obito did with Kakashi only his was short term so i guess she is more powerful than Sage Obito... again I'm not changing my mind and your not changing yours so lets just agree to disagree.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
It's the same thing Obito did with Kakashi only his was short term so i guess she is more powerful than Sage Obito... again I'm not changing my mind and your not changing yours so lets just agree to disagree.

Its not the same thing obitio transferred his chakra to kakashi



Will is not chakra


You should look up the definition of will

Are you mad? You seem so

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Are you mad? You seem so


Not at all


Just saying you should look up the definition of what will is so you dont get it confused with chakra or physical strength.

The concept of will is quite simple actually its emotion based someone who is really weak can have a strong will.

Example rock lee is not the strongest character in the show but it can be argued that he has ome of the strongest if not the strongest will power.

Obitos will is what kept his consciousness from being ripped apart by the juubi and what made hinata keep attacking pain even when she knew he was too strong for her. It could also be why little konohamaru beating a pein body. Naruto himself has plenty examples of having a strong will in damn near all of his fights.

In the case of gaara his mothers will was infused with the sand just before she died and that is why it protects him.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Agree to disagree

When he was discussing his former partner he refered to Oro as his equal and he viewed himself as > Deidara.

The Iron sand should lock the puppets in place like against Chiyo, rendering them useless. i think sasori will win this

Originally posted by yungz22
Did the 4th have auto defense like gaara did No but he he had the added benefit of rendering all metal weapons used against him at best non-effective and at worst suicidal for his opponent.

Sasori somehow got him, though and he was the strongest Kazakage.