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Setting: http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/332/b/e/lok_harmonic_convergence_by_oceanrose101-d6w0ev7.png

This is Katara during The Rift trilogy.

Round 1: No Full Moon
Round 2: Full Moon

Ghazan unless Water hard counters Lava.

Bloodbending ftw

1. Ghazan
2. Katara (blood bending to op)

*NO BLOODBENDING*

Katara could conceivably throw out enough or cold enough water/ice that it would at least slow Ghazan's lava down if not stop it. And Katara can also control the steam and water vapor that will inevitably be made from the two colliding.

Yeah, I think enough water would cancel out Ghazan's lava.

Outside bloodbending what does the moon matter?

Its like saying Superman or superman with a big stick, its supposed to amp but its not really shown as much.

The full moon makes waterbending a lot more powerful.

The full moon for Waterbenders is like Sozin's comet for Firebenders.

Yup.

Ghazan with mid difficulty

Ghazan with high difficulty, if no blood bending. Otherwise loses.

Round 1: Ghzan only due to lava bending since his earth bending was pretty unimpressive.

Round 2: Katara with or without bloodbending.

Originally posted by KingD19
The full moon for Waterbenders is like Sozin's comet for Firebenders.

Nah. The full moon takes Waterbending to its peak. Sozin's Comet is an actual amp that pushes Firebenders far beyond their peak.

Originally posted by King Joker
The full moon makes waterbending a lot more powerful. Originally posted by KingD19
The full moon for Waterbenders is like Sozin's comet for Firebenders. i get that its supposed to but really the feats aren't supporting this.

Katara on a full moon would be a nightmare. Without one was was able to create tsunamis with the moon and bloodbending she would crush almost anyone.

Originally posted by King Joker
*NO BLOODBENDING*

Originally posted by pym-ftw
i get that its supposed to but really the feats aren't supporting this.

How?

Because what special things have the full moon allowed?

Special? All the full moon allows is more powerful waterbending. Are you implying the full moon does nothing?

It seems to not do anything noticeable.

It's stated and heavily implied throughout ATLA it amps them by a relatively big degree. Whether or not it 'seems to not do anything noticeable' is irrelevant. The Fire Nation halted their attack on the Northern Water Tribe when it was nearing night time for the sole reason that the moon amped them to such a degree that continuing the attack would be dangerous and quite costly.

Not in a thread where a moon is a factor... how much does it amp?

I'm not sure, but probably a relatively significant given the hype in ATLA.

The Avatar wiki says that the moon can amp to a degree where a single waterbender can overpower multiple enemies with relative ease. So, take it as you will.

But your using it for a debate...

Its hyperbole until proven otherwise.

Lol. The Fire Nation halted their invasion because of the power the moon gave waterbenders. How is that a hyperbole?! Just that itself speaks for the big amp a full moon gives a waterbender.

Because we have no idea how powerful the moon makes her!

Zuko level
Aang level
Goku level
?

Its just speculation & hyperbole until we see something

Of course it's speculation how much it would amp her, but none of what was stated about the full moon is hyperbole. It's a hyperbole because we don't know how powerful it makes her? That makes 0 sense at all. All we know is that it amps waterbenders, and it's been stated outright by Katara that she noticed her waterbending is stronger at night. That should be good enough for you. I don't know how much it amps waterbenders, and that isn't even what we're discussing, we're discussing whether or not the amp would be significant, which it pretty obviously is considering the Fire Nation halted their invasion because of the amp it gives waterbenders.

Don't ask me how much her power level increases, I don't know that, but what we do know is that in general a waterbender's power is increased.

Id even wager that gaazan can beat katara even with a full moon. The power isnt that significant compared to sozens comet. Zuko still beat her during the water tribe invasion

Originally posted by yungz22
Id even wager that gaazan can beat katara even with a full moon. The power isnt that significant compared to sozens comet. Zuko still beat her during the water tribe invasion

When she looked away.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Because we have no idea how powerful the moon makes her!

Zuko level
Aang level
Goku level
?

Its just speculation & hyperbole until we see something

She is already stronger than Zuko.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
She is already stronger than Zuko.


He still beat her so whats your point?
How do you figure?..... You do realize that zuko is a fire lord of an entire nation while katara isnt even a leader of any of the water tribes.

Do you think the Earth King is also stronger than Katara?

Originally posted by yungz22
Id even wager that gaazan can beat katara even with a full moon. The power isnt that significant compared to sozens comet. Zuko still beat her during the water tribe invasion

Only after the moon went away. She kicked his ass with the moon and he specifically noted the difference it made not having it.

Ghazan wins round 1 and most likely round 2 honestly. The environment is too much in his favor and his powers are simply too good a counter to hers.

Aang or Zuko would be a better match for Ghazan. Katara would be a better match for P'Li or Zaheer.

I was thinking about making a Katara vs. Eska & Desna thread. Or Katara vs. Ming-Hua.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Do you think the Earth King is also stronger than Katara?

Bumi was a very powerful king...... The point is zuko grew to be legendary while katara not so much

Originally posted by yungz22
Bumi was a very powerful king...... The point is zuko grew to be legendary while katara not so much Lol.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Lol.

Even tho he wasnt earth king lol

Almost every king/ tribe leader except for the earth king was seen as very powerful benders except for the earth king. And it seems that the earth kings and queens of ba sing se arent too popular with the public anyway.

Regardless my point still stands katara is not as legendary or as respected as zuko around the world.

Originally posted by yungz22
He still beat her so whats your point?
How do you figure?..... You do realize that zuko is a fire lord of an entire nation while katara isnt even a leader of any of the water tribes.

That it didn't mean he was superior to her.

Who cares what his title is that means nothing.

Originally posted by yungz22
Almost every king/ tribe leader except for the earth king was seen as very powerful benders except for the earth king. And it seems that the earth kings and queens of ba sing se arent too popular with the public anyway.

Regardless my point still stands katara is not as legendary or as respected as zuko around the world.

That doesn't mean they are stronger than everyone below them lol.

Zuko isn't legendary either.

Originally posted by King Joker
I was thinking about making a Katara vs. Eska & Desna thread. Or Katara vs. Ming-Hua.

The first suggestion is a no brainer Katara. The latter is debatable and thread worthy.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
The first suggestion is a no brainer Katara. The latter is debatable and thread worthy.

I agree. I think I'll make the thread in a day or two.

I'd argue the first is very arguable.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
That doesn't mean they are stronger than everyone below them lol.

Zuko isn't legendary either.



What are you talking about zuko is legendary he learned firebending from the dragons who were the original firebender, he restored the fire nation to its former glory and His name is known worldwide didnt you see bolin's reaction when he first met him.


Zuko is not just an ordinary individual

Originally posted by yungz22
What are you talking about zuko is legendary he learned firebending from the dragons who were the original firebender, he restored the fire nation to its former glory and His name is known worldwide didnt you see bolin's reaction when he first met him.


Zuko is not just an ordinary individual

Your over glorifying his actions. He is not more famous than Toph. She wasn't born into a royal family yet she is far more famous having revolutionized the future of this world with her metal bending discovery while Zuko just negotiated peace with the fire nation. Bolin is a team avatar fanboy. He worshipped at Toph's altar.

Neither is Katara who is hailed as the greatest healer in the world and accruing to Yakone she is an authoritative figure in water bending around the world.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Your over glorifying his actions. He is not more famous than Toph. She wasn't born into a royal family yet she is far more famous having revolutionized the future of this world with her metal bending discovery while Zuko just negotiated peace with the fire nation. Bolin is a team avatar fanboy. He worshipped at Toph's altar.

Neither is Katara who is hailed as the greatest healer in the world and accruing to Yakone she is an authoritative figure in water bending around the world.

Why are you talking about toph i never mentioned her in no way shape or form

She is also the Wife of the Avatar... kinda makes her famous.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
She is also the Wife of the Avatar... kinda makes her famous.

Marrying the avatar makes her better than zuko?

Not better, but it does make her pretty damn famous. Wife of the Avatar and the reason the Air Nation has a strong leader or leaders in Tenzin and Jinora.

Katara did some crazy stuff, and her word is powerful enough to ban a form of bending worldwide. All Zuko did was like the others have said, take over the Fire Nation and not be a dick. I doubt he and Aang even told the world about the Dragon Masters. They still haven't even explained where Zuko got his dragon from.

So Katara's important because she spawned an airbender?

But yeah I could see a solid argument for her being better than Zuko. Though as for this fight I still see Ghazan winning, lavabending is some pretty darn broken stuff though bloodbending trumps all of that.

She spawned the first Airbender in 100(however many years). That's a pretty big deal.

I'm simply pointing out that the guy was severely downplaying how influential and important Katara is, while uplaying Zuko just as much.

Originally posted by yungz22
Why are you talking about toph i never mentioned her in no way shape or form

I am pointing out how people of lesser birth can be more famous and powerful.

Originally posted by KingD19
She spawned the first Airbender in 100(however many years). That's a pretty big deal.

I'm simply pointing out that the guy was severely downplaying how influential and important Katara is, while uplaying Zuko just as much.

This.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Your over glorifying his actions. He is not more famous than Toph. She wasn't born into a royal family yet she is far more famous having revolutionized the future of this world with her metal bending discovery while Zuko just negotiated peace with the fire nation. Bolin is a team avatar fanboy. He worshipped at Toph's altar.

Neither is Katara who is hailed as the greatest healer in the world and accruing to Yakone she is an authoritative figure in water bending around the world.

Toph was born into quite the wealthy and prestigious family. The Bei Fong name had prestige and clout before Toph's exploits.

Originally posted by KingD19
She spawned the first Airbender in 100(however many years). That's a pretty big deal.

I'm simply pointing out that the guy was severely downplaying how influential and important Katara is, while uplaying Zuko just as much.

Pfft...Tenzin's wife spawned 3(an implied 4th due to how airbenders operate). Clearly she must also be on Zuko's level.

Yeah Katara's done some pretty cool stuff and did influence the banning of bloodbending.

Zuko is more famous in his verse guys. It doesn't matter one lick as far as fighting potential goes but he is the more significant simply by being the guy who ended the longest war in history.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Toph was born into quite the wealthy and prestigious family. The Bei Fong name had prestige and clout before Toph's exploits.

Unlike Zuko it wasn't her rich family that got her a legacy. It was her revolutionary findings in earth bending.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Zuko is more famous in his verse guys. It doesn't matter one lick as far as fighting potential goes but he is the more significant simply by being the guy who ended the longest war in history.

Aang actually got credit for that. Zuko just publicly announced it when the fire nation had no other option.

Yeah outside of the Fire Nation I'd Say Katara is more famous between her connection to the Avatar, being the Mother of Tenzin & Bumi (how famous he is could be interpreted as bs stories/Hyperbole) & also the fact she herself is an accomplished Waterbender & healer. Tbf the latter most seems to only pertain to water tribe & lotus members so how far spread her power was known is debatable.

I honestly can't remember one person pointing out Zuko's abilities minus how wise he's become.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Unlike Zuko it wasn't her rich family that got her a legacy. It was her revolutionary findings in earth bending.


Indeed. For the longest time, people didn't even know Toph was a Beifong. At first people knew her as the Blind Bandit. And later she was just Toph. And while her family was rich, it wasn't so influential that it was what got her famous. Like you said it was her pushing Earthbending forward a few decades in the course of a few days.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Unlike Zuko it wasn't her rich family that got her a legacy. It was her revolutionary findings in earth bending.

Zuko's family isn't what made him famous or shaped his legacy either though. Zuko was an outcast, he was embarrassingly exiled from his family, nation and position. Zuko didn't have a legacy until he saved and redeemed the Fire Nation and started his reign.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Zuko's family isn't what made him famous or shaped his legacy either though. Zuko was an outcast, he was embarrassingly exiled from his family, nation and position. Zuko didn't have a legacy until he saved and redeemed the Fire Nation and started his reign.

He didn't save anything. He just picked up a nation that was relatively fine minus it's reputation and together with his nation proved they are allies to the world once more.

He taught Aang fire bending, he fought beside Aang to defeat his father and the Fire Nation, he restored glory to the Fire Nation and quelled everyone's fear of his homeland. How did he not save it?

He's credited as saving the world alongside Aang in the Korra intro iirc, when really it was Katara and Aang that saved everyone by beating Azula and Ozai. But they all contributed, really.

I saw Zuko beating Azula until Katara came in and served as a target which made him take a hit for her. I'm not arguing to downplay anyone here. Everyone contributed to the victory, everyone is important, you can't compare their fame and glory.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
He taught Aang fire bending, he fought beside Aang to defeat his father and the Fire Nation, he restored glory to the Fire Nation and quelled everyone's fear of his homeland. How did he not save it?

The dragons taught him more than Zuko did frankly. The second point goes for all members of team avatar. The most he did was change the fire nations reputation. The fire nation was still the most powerful nation at the time so they didn't really fall from glory.

And Aang wouldn't have learned anything from the dragons without Zuko. Power doesn't bring glory to Zuko, his home lost it's glory when it became a tyrannical nation.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
I saw Zuko beating Azula until Katara came in and served as a target which made him take a hit for her. I'm not arguing to downplay anyone here. Everyone contributed to the victory, everyone is important, you can't compare their fame and glory.

Katara's a healer in the Water Tribe.
Zuko travels the world as an ambassador for peace and tries to stop bad guys.

Seriously though, WTF does fame and glory have to do with this fight again?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
And Aang wouldn't have learned anything from the dragons without Zuko. Power doesn't bring glory to Zuko, his home lost it's glory when it became a tyrannical nation.

Actually it was Aang's idea to learn then perform the dragon dance for them so in the end it was Aang who save their lives and taught BOTH of them.

Yeah and Zuko plus the people of his nation re-established their bonds with the other nations.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Actually it was Aang's idea to learn then perform the dragon dance for them so in the end it was Aang who save their lives and taught BOTH of them.

Yeah and Zuko plus the people of his nation re-established their bonds with the other nations.

Zuko already knew fire bending, Zuko was teaching him first IIRC. It still took both of them to do the dance so neither would have learned a thing without the other. I still don't see the point you're trying to make.

It didn't actually take both of them. Iroh learned it by himself. There just so happened to be two of them, so the dragons taught both of them at the same time. And yeah it seemed like it took both of them to get to the Sun Temple, but again Iroh did it by himself because he was the only one who still knew dragons existed aside from the Sun People up to that point.