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Talzin
Maul
Ventress
Savage

vs.

Darth Sidious
Darth Tyranus

Location: Dathomir, center of Talzin's power.
Scenario: With a great sacrifice Mother Talzin has been brought at peak power on Dathomir. Sidious and Tyranus sense a disturbance in the force and both arrive on Dathomir to strike down their hated rivals. As Grievous leads the ground assault Sidious and Tyranus face off against the Mother and her most powerful children.

Team CIS probably dies a horrible death.

Assuming Sids was just enjoying the duel with the Maul brothers and wasn't trying to end it quickly, I'd pick team 2. If he was serious in that fight, there's no way team 2 wins.

Does anyone lead the Nightsisters fending off the droids?

Originally posted by King Joker
Does anyone lead the Nightsisters fending off the droids?

Yes Brother Viscus.

Originally posted by Trocity
Assuming Sids was just enjoying the duel with the Maul brothers and wasn't trying to end it quickly, I'd pick team 2. If he was serious in that fight, there's no way team 2 wins.

I think he was reasonably serious. Like, he wasn't going strait for the kill, but he wasn't *letting* them get some hits in, or letting them do so evenly in sabers.

He knew he had the option of separating them with the force, but chose to get some real fighting in before he did so.

Originally posted by Q99
I think he was reasonably serious. Like, he wasn't going strait for the kill, but he wasn't *letting* them get some hits in, or letting them do so evenly in sabers.

He knew he had the option of separating them with the force, but chose to get some real fighting in before he did so.

I think Ventress and Savage will have to hold off the Count while Maul and Talzin take on Sidious.

Team cis

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I think Ventress and Savage will have to hold off the Count while Maul and Talzin take on Sidious.

Ventress and Savage can hold off and even kill Dooku, they only lost because of Savage losing it.

Savage's power is too much for ye olde Dooku to deal with, so he has to be force lightning'd and even Dooku can't beat Ventress with so many breaks in his combat form.

I think Maul and Talzin vs Sidious is obviously a Dathomir victory too.

Team Dathomir wins.

Originally posted by Selenial
I think Maul and Talzin vs Sidious is obviously a Dathomir victory too

I think it's obviously the opposite

Sids just TKs Maul and then it's him and Talzin.

I'll go with the CIS, mostly because of Grievous leading an invasion that will probably make short work of the Nightsisters without the undead or a suitable General.

Sidious going all out wipes the floor with Ventress and Savage in seconds.
Maul would be fairly more difficult but TK would stomp him, Talzin would be hard but he would still win.

Add in Dooku and this is a stomp.

Sidious and Dooku should take this if Sids fights smart.

Sidious can easily defeat Ventress and Savage simultaneously with the force. However, if Sidious decides to engage in saber before resorting to the force Maul and Co have a real chance.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sidious going all out wipes the floor with Ventress and Savage in seconds.
Maul would be fairly more difficult but TK would stomp him, Talzin would be hard but he would still win.

Dealing with four foes he can beat individually and all four at the same time- or even two/three of them- is a very different thing.




He can, one on one, take out Savage in seconds and Ventress in not all that many more. But as we saw, Savage was actively hanging and being useful alongside Maul until they were split up by the force.

And with Talzin taking point and doing heavy lifting, Sidious is not going to have a lot of attention to spare for any foe.

Sidious casually owned both Maul and Savage with the force at the opening of the fight. Not sure why you seem to believe he would unable to do the same to Ventress and Savage when he should be able to do so even easier.

Originally posted by ares834
Sidious casually owned both Maul and Savage with the force at the opening of the fight. Not sure why you seem to believe he would unable to do the same to Ventress and Savage when he should be able to do so even easier.

Because Talzin is going to gun for him in the force. There's no way she's not.

He does that to Ventress and Savage, Talzin's going to drop everything to blast him full-on in the side while Maul holds off Dooku.


And while he grabbed them both initially when their guards weren't fully up, keep in mind they weren't taken out. He can immobilize two pretty well, but finishing takes a bit more effort and/or some saber work.

Ventress was evidently amateur hour at defending against Sith Lightning, Savage was even worse, Maul wasn't exactly much better and Talzin required Maul's amp to engage Sidious squarely in Force Lightning.

This isn't including by any means, Sidious' other potent abilities.

Real Sith win.

But she does have Maul here. And more. It's 4 on 2, numbers matter.

Originally posted by ares834
Sidious casually owned both Maul and Savage with the force at the opening of the fight.


Yeah but he didn't instantly crush them, or even KO them. That attack lasted way too long to pull it off when Talzin's and Maul are still around.

Besides I doubt in this fight everyone is talking with their weapons tucked away giving Sidious a chance to suddenly lash out with his Force powers any second.

I'm going with team CIS.

Team dathomir in a tough fight - 6 / 10.

Originally posted by Q99
I think he was reasonably serious. Like, he wasn't going strait for the kill, but he wasn't *letting* them get some hits in, or letting them do so evenly in sabers.

He knew he had the option of separating them with the force, but chose to get some real fighting in before he did so.







http://38.media.tumblr.com/f88ee17c04336252ca663530771d5aca/tumblr_msc9csz4wJ1sh28k6o1_500.gif

You see, I'm strongly siding with Dathomir for the fight of the powerful peeps, but CIS has a greater army for the larger scale battle. It's an interesting dynamic.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://38.media.tumblr.com/f88ee17c04336252ca663530771d5aca/tumblr_msc9csz4wJ1sh28k6o1_500.gif


It's not like he Instant Crushed Fisto, Tiin and Kolar. Spending 7 seconds Saber Blitzing them instead of fully focusing on Windu is what probably cost him that fight.

So yeah numbers matter.

And I don't care what anyone says, Ventress and Opress > Tiin/Kolar/Fisto.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's not like he Instant Crushed Fisto, Tiin and Kolar. Spending 7 seconds Saber Blitzing them instead of fully focusing on Windu is what probably cost him that fight.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice




One on one Mace wouldn't have faired better than Yoda against Sidious. In fact he would have faired worse.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER


One on one Mace wouldn't have faired better than Yoda against Sidious. In fact he would have faired worse.
No, he really wouldn't. The fact is Mace's fighting style was perfect to face someone like Sidious, where as Yoda's was not. The way the fight turns out in the novel is proof enough of that. Sidious' has next to nothing with numbers involved.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's not like he Instant Crushed Fisto, Tiin and Kolar. Spending 7 seconds Saber Blitzing them instead of fully focusing on Windu is what probably cost him that fight.

So yeah numbers matter.


Yes, he pretty much had to start out with a force-sprint so to speak and spent his maximum power on targets other than the main one. A push that hard'll slow down anyone once it's done.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, he really wouldn't. The fact is Mace's fighting style was perfect to face someone like Sidious, where as Yoda's was not. The way the fight turns out in the novel is proof enough of that. Sidious' has next to nothing with numbers involved.


What fighting style? Vapaad?

Won't make a difference if Sidious starts the fight TK'ing Mace from a distance.

Yoda didn't fail against Sidious down to pure a Saber match up. Sidious went all out using all his powers and abilities.


Plus this:

Originally posted by Q99
Yes, he pretty much had to start out with a force-sprint so to speak and spent his maximum power on targets other than the main one. A push that hard'll slow down anyone once it's done.


Yep.

Mace's fighting style aids him in competing against Sidious better than the likes of Mace's Peers like Dooku could.

But still one on one I'd give Sidious the majority against Mace. Probably even in a Saber only match.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
What fighting style? Vapaad?

Won't make a difference if Sidious starts the fight TK'ing Mace from a distance.

Yoda didn't fail against Sidious down to pure a Saber match up. Sidious went all out using all his powers and abilities.

Vaapad is able to channel Force energy into an out of the users body, where as Yoda had to absorb everything thrown at him, Yoda being well past his prime.


Doubtful. In sabers only, there are very few people I would put above Mace, and RotS Sidious isn't one of them .

Originally posted by FreshestSlice


Doubtful. In sabers only, there are very few people I would put above Mace, and RotS Sidious isn't one of them .

And yet Sidious dealt much more easily with both Maul and Talzin in Sabers than Windu did

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And yet Sidious dealt much more easily with both Maul and Talzin in Sabers than Windu did
Hmm, maybe. Maybe not. All we saw was was someone else get kicked and Mace taking a rocket. We don't actually know how the fight went. Either way, Palpatine's amp to Mace is massive compared to Mauls'.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Hmm, maybe. Maybe not. All we saw was was someone else get kicked and Mace taking a rocket. We don't actually know how the fight went.

Well Maul clearly held his own for however long or short the fight was.

Point being the idea of Maul on his own engaging Sidious and another Council member simultaneously is frankly laughable.

Then there's the fact that Sidious also performed much better against Talzin on her home world, then Mace performed against her on a neutral world.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Either way, Palpatine's amp to Mace is massive compared to Mauls'.


Exactly, it's context specific. How long does it take Mace to get this "amp". If it takes several seconds then that's several seconds Sidious wasted on those other opponents.

Plus again in that 4 on 1 situation, Sidious was kind of restricted to a close up Saber duel, as that was the only way to kill the other opponents quickly.

One on one Sidious doesn't have that restricition and can start with TK attacks from the offset.

That's why I personally give Sidious the vast majority over Mace in a one on one. Maybe give Mace 2/3 wins out of 10 due to Vapaad, and Lucas confirming Mace can compete.