Zoom vs Runner...

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TheLordofMurder
Two of the fastest characters from Marvel and DC battle to the Death or KO with no BFR allowed...

Who wins?

Insane Titan
Zoom wins

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Zoom wins

What are you basing Zoom winning upon?

DarkSaint85
Zoom was punking a bloodlusted, amped Flash.....

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Zoom was punking a bloodlusted, amped Flash.....

Runner crushed Surfer without much effort...

And dont forget, its tough to actually fight hard again Runner; he has that aura that makes you like him; even Surfer (who has pretty strong psionic resistance) was unable to resist it...

DarkSaint85
Crushing Surfer's no mean feat, this is true.

But he was blitzing Flash, so quickly, he was actually leaving the battlefield, checking on Linda in Central City, and returning, without Flash knowing what he was up to.

TheLordofMurder
No doubt Zoom is really fast, but he has to enter Runners aura to attack him...

He wont be able to fight Runner like he would a normal opponent...

DTM
Going with The Runner, whos basically the universal level Flash with a Surfer level physique.

Golgo13
Zoom.

Zack Fair
LoL@speedsters. They're so ridiculous

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
No doubt Zoom is really fast, but he has to enter Runners aura to attack him...

He wont be able to fight Runner like he would a normal opponent...

Lol, getting Zoom to like him isn't a good idea, don't you see?

What if he decides he likes the Runner so much, he decides toooo mmmmmaaakkkeeee himmmm AAA bbeeeettteerrrr hheeerrroo?

Galan007
zoom.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Galan007
zoom.

Based on?

I'm not saying you guys are wrong for saying that Zoom wins, but whats the argument supporting it?

Runner crushes High Heralds and outright punks other Trans Tier characters...

He has owning Thanos until he stopped to talk to him and the Collector was competely helpless against Runners onslaught...

And as I mentioned earlier, Zoom has to fight Runners aura thats gonna make him like Runner; what are Zooms TP resistance feats?

Surfer has some pretty good ones and even he was unable to resist Runners aura...

zopzop
Runner destroys him.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Based on?

I'm not saying you guys are wrong for saying that Zoom wins, but whats the argument supporting it?

Runner crushes High Heralds and outright punks other Trans Tier characters...

He has owning Thanos until he stopped to talk to him and the Collector was competely helpless against Runners onslaught...

And as I mentioned earlier, Zoom has to fight Runners aura thats gonna make him like Runner; what are Zooms TP resistance feats?

Surfer has some pretty good ones and even he was unable to resist Runners aura...

Zoom LIKES Flash; he's trying to help him improve. That's the crazy thing.

Making him like the Runner will just make him want to improve him. Which means defeating him.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Zoom LIKES Flash; he's trying to help him improve. That's the crazy thing.

Making him like the Runner will just make him want to improve him. Which means defeating him.

Big difference...

Runners aura makes you docile and not really want to fight...

TheLordofMurder
Here, Runner takes Surfers board from him, and Surfers attack has no effect on Runner...

How can Zoom beat this guy?

TheLordofMurder
And here, Runner just plain out overpowers Surfer while casually smiling about it, then throws him into a planet:

DTM
Apparently Flash and Zoom can do anything and beat anyone.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by DTM
Apparently Flash and Zoom can do anything and beat anyone.

thumb up

I'm still waiting on peeps to justify Zoom winning this...

TheLordofMurder
And just to add the finishing touch to my argument for the Runner, here he is facing the Collector; a bonafide Trans Tier character that was completely helpless against the Runners fury:

God Cloth Seiya
Zoom

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Zoom

Ok present your evidence supporting this belief...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop
Runner destroys him.

I'm inclined to agree with you...

thumb up

Golgo13
Are we using professor zoom or just zoom?

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Golgo13
Are we using professor zoom or just zoom?

Just Zoom...

CadenceV2
Runner should win. His aura tips it heavy in his favors. Add to this Runner has Silver Surfer stats, add in light speed to this attacks and you have blows that would rock Thanos by numbers.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Runner should win. His aura tips it heavy in his favors. Add to this Runner has Silver Surfer stats, add in light speed to this attacks and you have blows that would rock Thanos by numbers.

thumb up

Although I'd argue, based on their fight, that Runners stats are beyond Surfers...

DarkSaint85
I'm a bit confused.

Runner has an aura that makes people like him, right? This would make Zoom like him so much, he'd stop fighting.

This was proven by showing how Surfer stopped fighting him.

Then scans were postedshowing Surfer.,..ffighting? Why? I thought he liked the Runner?

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm a bit confused.

Runner has an aura that makes people like him, right? This would make Zoom like him so much, he'd stop fighting.

This was proven by showing how Surfer stopped fighting him.

Then scans were postedshowing Surfer.,..ffighting? Why? I thought he liked the Runner?

If someone you like keeps attacking you, you'll fight back, but not like you would against someone you dont like at all...

TheLordofMurder
Heres another scan of the Runners aura at work even after hes attacked you:

DarkSaint85
Yeah.....that won't benefit him in the same way, IMO.

Zoom doesn't fight because he hates you or your lifestyle. He fights to break you down and make you a better hero. Because he likes you.

If he likes the Runner, he'll try to make him better. Its just that he'd do it through pain and sacrifice. Tough love.

krisblaze
^Right on the money.

It's Zoom's own twisted sense of love that made him target Wally.

Hell, in a sense he was right, Wally is a better hero now smile

janus77
Runner stomps. Different weight class. Faster than Surfer (who is himself as fast as Flash, at the least) and just as powerful, but with an aura that calms people down and makes them like him, thus destroying their motivation to attack him.

Board Walker
Flash>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Surfer in speed

Thus

Zoom>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Surfer in speed

So it is safe to say that Zoom out speeds Runner by such a margin, that the runner will be a motionless statue.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by janus77
Runner stomps. Different weight class. Faster than Surfer (who is himself as fast as Flash, at the least) and just as powerful, but with an aura that calms people down and makes them like him, thus destroying their motivation to attack him.

....

But what if it strengthens their desire to attack him? Zoom will try and improve Runner, the only way he knows how:

http://www.fybertech.com/4get/13338242681682.jpg

Philosophía
Zoom.

h1a8
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ok present your evidence supporting this belief...

Here are some facts:
Runner doesn't have the gem here.
Flash is faster than Surfer
Zoom is faster than Flash
Runner with the gem is significantly faster than without the gem.
Runner with the gem does more damage than without the gem.
Energy blast durability isn't the same as blunt force durability.


Here are opinions with no evidence to back them up.
Runner is faster than Surfer.
Runner is faster than Superman.
The aura works faster than a nanosecond.


In a nutshell, zoom will see Runner (without the gem) in slow motion and hit him with greater than Superman level punches and teach him.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by h1a8
Here are some facts:
Runner doesn't have the gem here.
Flash is faster than Surfer
Zoom is faster than Flash
Runner with the gem is significantly faster than without the gem.
Runner with the gem does more damage than without the gem.
Energy blast durability isn't the same as blunt force durability.


Here are opinions with no evidence to back them up.
Runner is faster than Surfer.
Runner is faster than Superman.
The aura works faster than a nanosecond.


In a nutshell, zoom will see Runner (without the gem) in slow motion and hit him with greater than Superman level punches and teach him.

Runner doesnt need the gem here...

Btw, your knowledge of the Runner and Space Gem is incomplete; he never used it to move faster...even Thanos admits to this.

When he owned Surfer and was blitzing Thanos, that was completely under his own power...

He would subconsciously use it to teleport from place to place...

Heres the evidence...

TheLordofMurder
@H1A8

You might want to go back and review your "facts"; some of your "facts" appear to have been retrieved from think air...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
....

But what if it strengthens their desire to attack him? Zoom will try and improve Runner, the only way he knows how:

http://www.fybertech.com/4get/13338242681682.jpg

As I stated on page 1, this isnt the same thing as what Runners aura will do to Zoom (or anyone within it)...

It makes you docile...you start to adore him...it makes you not want to fight.

I wish I could locate the scan were he works his aura on Moondragon; cant find it...

DarkSaint85
And yet....you then posted Surfer fighting him......hence my confusion.

Deadline
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And yet....you then posted Surfer fighting him......hence my confusion.

That's because Surfer was struggling to resist it.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Deadline
That's because Surfer was struggling to resist it.

thumb up

TheLordofMurder
@DarkSaint

Thats why I asked you for Zooms feats of TP resistance...

Surfer has excellent TP resistance, and he had to struggle to make himself fight Runner...

If Zoom's TP resistance is lacking, this fight is over before it starts...

DarkSaint85
Therein lies the problem.

Because he was so fast, only an amped Wally was able to perceive him when he attacked. He was blitzing speedsters so quickly he was invisible to them.

So, there are no TP resistance feats at all. Because no one has been fast enough to register :Ah, there's Zoom, TP time!'

Deadline
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Therein lies the problem.

Because he was so fast, only an amped Wally was able to perceive him when he attacked. He was blitzing speedsters so quickly he was invisible to them.

So, there are no TP resistance feats at all. Because no one has been fast enough to register :Ah, there's Zoom, TP time!'

and the Runner will be able to see him. Even if you think hes faster do you really think Zoom can beat him into submission before the TP takes hold? I don't think so.

Golgo13
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Therein lies the problem.

Because he was so fast, only an amped Wally was able to perceive him when he attacked. He was blitzing speedsters so quickly he was invisible to them.

So, there are no TP resistance feats at all. Because no one has been fast enough to register :Ah, there's Zoom, TP time!'

thumb up

Decimus
The biases comes out especially in the poll.
Zoom and a strong cogent argument can be made that it's spite.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Decimus
The biases comes out especially in the poll.
Zoom and a strong cogent argument can be made that it's spite.

Ok, lets here your argument that this is spite in Zooms favor...

Deadline
Originally posted by Deadline
and the Runner will be able to see him. Even if you think hes faster do you really think Zoom can beat him into submission before the TP takes hold? I don't think so.

Ok I repeat. Furthermore not even sure if it's standard TP. Its not like Runner is concentrating it's like an aura. You come near him you get affected.

Raisen
runner is smashing in the polls

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Deadline
Ok I repeat. Furthermore not even sure if it's standard TP. Its not like Runner is concentrating it's like an aura. You come near him you get affected.

thumb up

Deadline
Not to mention that Hal Jordan has been able to stop Zoom (maybe it was a low showing). How is Zoom going to stop somebody who is stronger, faster and more durable than the Surfer while fighting the aura?

Zoom loses.

janus77
Speed kills. The Runner wins this.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by janus77
Speed kills. The Runner wins this.
Lol what? If Runner wins it's not through speed. Zoom's localized time manipulation is uber. If Runner wins it's going to be through his other attributes like durability, strength, flight, and his aura as some of you folks are arguing.

Deadline
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Lol what? If Runner wins it's not through speed. Zoom's localized time manipulation is uber.

I really don't think that's going to work and I don't think Zoom is faster than Runner.

Golgo13
Has Runner faced a similar opponent?

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Deadline
I really don't think that's going to work and I don't think Zoom is faster than Runner.
What are Runner's best speed feats? I'm not saying he's going to lose. I'm just saying speed is not the key reason he would beat Zoom. That's why I would look to his other attributes other than his speed.

carver9
Runner does have an advantage...He can fly.

Deadline
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
What are Runner's best speed feats? I'm not saying he's going to lose. I'm just saying speed is not the key reason he would beat Zoom. That's why I would look to his other attributes other than his speed.

Well he's faster than Surfer and the Surfer is fast enough to travel through time, across dimensions and can travel light years in seconds.

h1a8
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Runner doesnt need the gem here...

Btw, your knowledge of the Runner and Space Gem is incomplete; he never used it to move faster...even Thanos admits to this.

When he owned Surfer and was blitzing Thanos, that was completely under his own power...

He would subconsciously use it to teleport from place to place...

Heres the evidence... Runner says he is much faster with the gem then without. He even says that he arrives at his destination before he even decides to go there. He was teleporting, not actually moving.

Owning Surfer doesn't mean he is faster than Surfer. He blitzed Thanos with the gem and stated that he was MUCH faster with it (although he was teleporting).

h1a8
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@H1A8

You might want to go back and review your "facts"; some of your "facts" appear to have been retrieved from think air...

ok let's see

Runner doesn't have the gem here since it's not standard equipment. Check.

Flash is faster than Surfer if we go by feats or average portrayal. Check.

Zoom is faster than Flash from all the evidence when they faced each other. Check.

Runner with the gem is significantly faster than without the gem. He can teleport so that he gets to his destination faster. Check.

Runner with the gem does more damage than without the gem and even claim to be able to beat Thanos to death using his newfound speed. I never seen him do the damage he did without the gem nor does he have feats to suggest that he can beat Thanos to death. But I'll give you this one and concede to this fact.

Energy blast durability isn't the same as blunt force durability. This is definitely a fact. Check.

h1a8
So Zoom is astronomically faster than Zoom and hits even harder (if he wants). Zoom easily wins this.

Here is some misconceptions about Runner:
Runner is faster than Surfer.
Runner is more than twice as strong as Surfer.
Runner's feat with the gem is usable here.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by h1a8
Runner says he is much faster with the gem then without. He even says that he arrives at his destination before he even decides to go there. He was teleporting, not actually moving.

Owning Surfer doesn't mean he is faster than Surfer. He blitzed Thanos with the gem and stated that he was MUCH faster with it (although he was teleporting).

Ok, post the scan of him saying that he is much faster with the gem than without it...

I'll wait...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by h1a8
ok let's see

Runner doesn't have the gem here since it's not standard equipment. Check.

He never used it in any of his fights, so its meaningless....





False. The gem never increased his speed...its right there in big bold print in the scan I posted...READ!! Furthermore, he never teleported during his fight with Thanos or Surfer, so the mental teleportation is meaningless.





FALSE!!!!!! HE NEVER SAID THIS!!! You are making stuff up...he never says he can beat Thanos to death "with his newfound speed."

h1a8
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ok, post the scan of him saying that he is much faster with the gem than without it...

I'll wait...
"You know why I'm so fast?" "It's all because of this beauty right here."
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/913/j6sm8u.jpg

"Yes, I was always fast, but I never really knew what speed was until I got this little purple darling." Now I sometimes arrive at where I'm going BEFORE I even realize I've started running. Now that's Fast!"

Note: even Thanos instruments says that his speed is at least doubled when he turns back Thanos way.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/674/VJYCnW.jpg

Claiming to be able to beat Thanos to death with superspeed.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/540/pJoQBH.jpg

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by h1a8
"You know why I'm so fast?" "It's all because of this beauty right here."
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/913/j6sm8u.jpg

"Yes, I was always fast, but I never really knew what speed was until I got this little purple darling." Now I sometimes arrive at where I'm going BEFORE I even realize I've started running. Now that's Fast!"

Note: even Thanos instruments says that his speed is at least doubled when he turns back Thanos way.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/674/VJYCnW.jpg

Claiming to be able to beat Thanos to death with superspeed.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/540/pJoQBH.jpg

Thanks for proving me right...

He thought the gem made him faster, but it did not...

His speed doubled because of his natural ability; he didnt teleport (you see him clearly running in the scan)...

He told Thanos that he could beat him to grape jelly, but didnt say anything about by using his "new found speed."

h1a8
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
He never used it in any of his fights, so its meaningless....

He never had it or was shown to have it.
Semantics. Who cares if it "increased his speed". The bottom line is that he was faster (getting to his destination quicker than before). Zoom isn't really fast you know. He just controls time, that's all. It's all the same thing really when comes to a fight.

I didn't quote him. Of course he didn't use the words newfound speed. But from the context, he implied it.

TheLordofMurder
Ok, so wheres your proof that Zoom is faster than Runner?

Because hes faster than Flash isnt proof...

h1a8
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thanks for proving me right...

He thought the gem made him faster, but it did not...

His speed doubled because of his natural ability; he didnt teleport (you see him clearly running in the scan)...

He told Thanos that he could beat him to grape jelly, but didnt say anything about by using his "new found speed." You are arguing semantics. What difference does it make? If you can slow down time to appear faster (ZOOM) or get to locations faster than before (SPACE GEM) then it's equivalent to being faster IN A FIGHT. You dafuq knew what Runner meant. Obviously his teleportation was so subtle in his motion that HE THOUGHT that he was moving quicker, which ULTIMATELY WOULD HAVE THE SAME RESULT AS SUPER SPEED IN A FIGHT.

h1a8
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ok, so wheres your proof that Zoom is faster than Runner?

Because hes faster than Flash isnt proof... But flash is faster than runner.

Here's the deductive argument.
P1. Flash is faster than Runner
P2. Zoom is faster than Flash

C. Zoom is faster than Runner.

The conclusion is necessarily true if the premises P1 and P2 are true.
Thus I must prove the premises to arrive at the conclusion.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by h1a8
You are arguing semantics. What difference does it make? If you can slow down time to appear faster (ZOOM) or get to locations faster than before (SPACE GEM) then it's equivalent to being faster IN A FIGHT. You dafuq knew what Runner meant. Obviously his teleportation was so subtle in his motion that HE THOUGHT that he was moving quicker, which ULTIMATELY WOULD HAVE THE SAME RESULT AS SUPER SPEED IN A FIGHT.

But he never used the gem in a fight, so as pertains this thread, it has zero effect on his combat speed...

He didnt have the gem at all against Surfer, and didnt teleport against Thanos, so the gem contributed nothing...

Its a complete nonfactor...

So, wheres your proof that Zoom is faster? Zoom being faster than Flash isnt proof...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by h1a8
But flash is faster than runner.

Here's the deductive argument.
P1. Flash is faster than Runner
P2. Zoom is faster than Flash

C. Zoom is faster than Runner.

The conclusion is necessarily true if the premises P1 and P2 are true.
Thus I must prove the premises to arrive at the conclusion.

Prove that Flash is faster than Runner...I'll wait.

janus77
Originally posted by carver9
Runner does have an advantage...He can fly.
So could R. Kelly, I believe confused.

carver9
Originally posted by janus77
So could R. Kelly, I believe confused.

Lol

h1a8
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
But he never used the gem in a fight, so as pertains this thread, it has zero effect on his combat speed...

He didnt have the gem at all against Surfer, and didnt teleport against Thanos, so the gem contributed nothing...

Its a complete nonfactor...

So, wheres your proof that Zoom is faster? Zoom being faster than Flash isnt proof... He didn't have it against his fight with Surfer AND his fight with Surfer didn't prove he was faster.

He did use it on Thanos. He even says he is much faster AS HE IS MOVING. Thanos instruments says his speed as AT LEAST doubled. Thanos just explains that he is really teleporting (many times in his motion) as to the reason he thinks he is faster. You are directly going against on panel intentions by the writer.

I don't understand you at all. You stopped using logic. If A is faster than B and B is faster than C then how come that doesn't prove that A is faster than C? ABC logic works flawlessly when it comes to speed, strength, or single attributes. ABC logic is faulty when it comes to more complex things (like who would win in a fight).
If you want to go by direct feats and not comparisons then Zoom's feats are superior to Runner's anyway.

h1a8
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder Prove that Flash is faster than Runner...I'll wait.

This is easy to do.
Flash's feats shits on the best feat Runner ever had (which is non existent).
There are plenty of feats by Flash that runner has no showings that exceed.

Note: The runner against Thanos showing can't be used since he was using the space gem TO TELEPORT and arrive at his destination quicker and thus wasn't a true measure of his speed.

GroggyGrunt
Originally posted by h1a8
He did use it on Thanos. He even says he is much faster AS HE IS MOVING. Thanos instruments says his speed as AT LEAST doubled.

Just want to point out that Thanos was saying his speed doubled from when he ran away to when he came back. In other words, Runner ran off and accelerated to a higher speed as he ran, before looping back. He wasn't making a comparative statement regarding his speed pre- and post-gem.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Just want to point out that Thanos was saying his speed doubled from when he ran away to when he came back. In other words, Runner ran off and accelerated to a higher speed as he ran, before looping back. He wasn't making a comparative statement regarding his speed pre- and post-gem.

thumb up

The fact is we see Runner circle Thanos, run off (his trail can be clearly seen; that doesnt happen when you teleport H1a8), then physically run back and hit Thanos again...

No teleportation utilized; all Runners natural ability on display...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by h1a8
He didn't have it against his fight with Surfer AND his fight with Surfer didn't prove he was faster.

He did use it on Thanos. He even says he is much faster AS HE IS MOVING. Thanos instruments says his speed as AT LEAST doubled. Thanos just explains that he is really teleporting (many times in his motion) as to the reason he thinks he is faster. You are directly going against on panel intentions by the writer.

I don't understand you at all. You stopped using logic. If A is faster than B and B is faster than C then how come that doesn't prove that A is faster than C? ABC logic works flawlessly when it comes to speed, strength, or single attributes. ABC logic is faulty when it comes to more complex things (like who would win in a fight).
If you want to go by direct feats and not comparisons then Zoom's feats are superior to Runner's anyway.

1st you are dead wrong about Runner teleporting as he didnt teleport at all against Thanos...

2nd, you seem to already have your mind made up that Flash and Zoom are faster than Runner, but you have nothing to prove it...

h1a8
Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Just want to point out that Thanos was saying his speed doubled from when he ran away to when he came back. In other words, Runner ran off and accelerated to a higher speed as he ran, before looping back. He wasn't making a comparative statement regarding his speed pre- and post-gem. Thanks. I knew this though. My point is that when Runner ran towards Thanos he REALLY used the space gem more effectively.

h1a8
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
1st you are dead wrong about Runner teleporting as he didnt teleport at all against Thanos...

2nd, you seem to already have your mind made up that Flash and Zoom are faster than Runner, but you have nothing to prove it...

So if Runner didn't teleport then we would reach two conclusions:

1. Thanos was lying his ass off
2. Runner is retarded for thinking he was going far faster with the gem than without.

How do we know that Thor is stronger than Cyborg from D.C.? Feats right?
I thought that feats prove who is stronger, faster, etc.
What are runner's feats that surpasses Flash's? Does he have any? I mean, you do believe he is faster right? What is your basis?

Inhuman
The gem didnt make Runner faster. It allowed him to instantly transport sometimes if he just thought about being there.
Runner's speed vs. Thanos was all his own. We didnt see him teleporting in any way. If im wrong show me were he teleported, THUS showing that he used the gem in the thanos battle. Runner is that fast sans gem. Without gem he cant teleport across the univers in an instant like he did when he met up with moondragon.
you seem to care about posting scans from this fight and taking into account what was said, yet you ignore this scan. Or maybe you didnt even know it excised since I doubt you've ever read this arc.

http://i.imgur.com/5H2V7Zf.jpg


The elders didnt even know how to use the gems properly. They sometimes tapped into them subconsciously but nothing major.
stop making shit up.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Inhuman
The gem didnt make Runner faster. It allowed him to instantly transport sometimes if he just thought about being there.
Runner's speed vs. Thanos was all his own. We didnt see him teleporting in any way. If im wrong show me were he teleported, THUS showing that he used the gem in the thanos battle. Runner is that fast sans gem. Without gem he cant teleport across the univers in an instant like he did when he met up with moondragon.

http://i.imgur.com/5H2V7Zf.jpg


The elders didnt even know how to use the gems properly. They sometimes tapped into them subconsciously but nothing major.
stop making shit up.

thumb up

h1a8
Originally posted by Inhuman
The gem didnt make Runner faster. It allowed him to instantly transport sometimes if he just thought about being there.
Runner's speed vs. Thanos was all his own. We dint see him teleporting in any way. If im wrong show me were he teleported, THUS showing that he used the gem in the thanos battle. Runner is that fast sans gem. Without gem he cant teleport across the univers in an instant like he did when he met up with moondragon.

http://i.imgur.com/5H2V7Zf.jpg


The elders didnt even know how to use the gems properly. They sometimes tapped into them subconsciously but nothing major.
stop making shit up. lol
did you read Lord's and my exchange over the last few pages?
We already discussed this.
The conclusion is that it is irrelevant (arguing semantics) because it is equivalent to superspeed in a battle.
Zoom isn't fast either. He just controls time. But again, in a fight, it's equivalent to having superspeed. The effects are the same.

So whether Runner was teleporting with his speed or not doesn't matter. He appeared faster and that's all that matters.

He was teleporting.
We don't have to see him teleporting for him to be teleporting. It could be so fast that we can't see it. The context tells us that he was. Runner was far faster than normal (according to him) and Thanos even said that his greater speed was due to him Really teleporting. Runner knows how fast he can go. He knows his limits. He's been traveling over a billion years. If the gem wasn't working then he would have said, "what dafuq, my gem isn't working." You are taking away the intentions of the writers and implementing something that is made up by you.


You are now trolling. Which is sad.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by h1a8
lol
did you read Lord's and my exchange over the last few pages?
We already discussed this.
The conclusion is that it is irrelevant (arguing semantics) because it is equivalent to superspeed in a battle.
Zoom isn't fast either. He just controls time. But again, in a fight, it's equivalent to having superspeed. The effects are the same.

So whether Runner was teleporting with his speed or not doesn't matter. He appeared faster and that's all that matters.

He was teleporting.
We don't have to see him teleporting for him to be teleporting. It could be so fast that we can't see it. The context tells us that he was. Runner was far faster than normal (according to him) and Thanos even said that his greater speed was due to him Really teleporting. Runner knows how fast he can go. He knows his limits. He's been traveling over a billion years. If the gem wasn't working then he would have said, "what dafuq, my gem isn't working." You are taking away the intentions of the writers and implementing something that is made up by you.


You are now trolling. Which is sad.

Wow...

1st of all "we" havent concluded that it was semantics...

You wrongly did...

Why am I wasting time arguing with you; arent you the guy wiith some weird math that "proves" Superman and Doomsday are twice as strong as Thor?

Lol...

Anyway, its right there in bold print stated by Thanos himself; the gem didnt make Runner faster...

Furthermore the on panel evidence shows no sign of Runner teleporting during the fight...

But I am writing this for naught; you've ignored the above panel twice during this thread and shall do so again...

Inhuman
Originally posted by h1a8
lol
did you read Lord's and my exchange over the last few pages?
We already discussed this.
The conclusion is that it is irrelevant (arguing semantics) because it is equivalent to superspeed in a battle.
Zoom isn't fast either. He just controls time. But again, in a fight, it's equivalent to having superspeed. The effects are the same.

So whether Runner was teleporting with his speed or not doesn't matter. He appeared faster and that's all that matters.

He was teleporting.
We don't have to see him teleporting for him to be teleporting. It could be so fast that we can't see it. The context tells us that he was. Runner was far faster than normal (according to him) and Thanos even said that his greater speed was due to him Really teleporting. Runner knows how fast he can go. He knows his limits. He's been traveling over a billion years. If the gem wasn't working then he would have said, "what dafuq, my gem isn't working." You are taking away the intentions of the writers and implementing something that is made up by you.


You are now trolling. Which is sad.

So you totally ignored the scan i posted. If you need further help. Read the 1st and 2nd panels.
You think when Runner said "I was always fast but never this fast, that he was somewhere instantly if he just thought about it"... you think that statement was talking about the current fight with Thanos? Cause I seriously think your that dumb to think that.
And NO i dont see him teleport in the Thanos fight ? quit making shit up or tell me exactly which page and panel he teleported.
Also if you knew anything about the elders and especially runner (I know you dont) , you would know speed , travel, exploration is his thing. He has been doing that for billions of years. Before he even had the gem. He has always been fast. If he was just sort of fast like a mid herald then his name and whole gimmick wouldn't indicate fuqing speed. He would just be called Goldendick or whatever.
I dont even know why im wasting my time anyhow. doubt you'll even get what im saying and will stick to your made up conclusions that have no backing.

Board Walker
LOL@golden dick

h1a8
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Wow...

1st of all "we" havent concluded that it was semantics...

You wrongly did...

Why am I wasting time arguing with you; arent you the guy wiith some weird math that "proves" Superman and Doomsday are twice as strong as Thor?

Lol...

Anyway, its right there in bold print stated by Thanos himself; the gem didnt make Runner faster...

Furthermore the on panel evidence shows no sign of Runner teleporting during the fight...

But I am writing this for naught; you've ignored the above panel twice during this thread and shall do so again... Who cares? Is Zoom fast? No he isn't. The gem is able to make runner get from one place to another in less time. Whether you say that's faster or not is irrelevant. In a fight, this power is useful. It will give the SAME EFFECT as actually being faster. That's all that matters.

Oh and Superman is far more than twice stronger than Thor. Try at least 10x dude.

Originally posted by Inhuman
So you totally ignored the scan i posted. If you need further help. Read the 1st and 2nd panels.
You think when Runner said "I was always fast but never this fast, that he was somewhere instantly if he just thought about it"... you think that statement was talking about the current fight with Thanos? Cause I seriously think your that dumb to think that.
And NO i dont see him teleport in the Thanos fight ? quit making shit up or tell me exactly which page and panel he teleported.
Also if you knew anything about the elders and especially runner (I know you dont) , you would know speed , travel, exploration is his thing. He has been doing that for billions of years. Before he even had the gem. He has always been fast. If he was just sort of fast like a mid herald then his name and whole gimmick wouldn't indicate fuqing speed. He would just be called Goldendick or whatever.
I dont even know why im wasting my time anyhow. doubt you'll even get what im saying and will stick to your made up conclusions that have no backing.

Runner was using the space gem in his confrontation on Thanos. Are you stupid or something? It's plain as day. He's boasting that he's faster with it WHILE he is actually moving around Thanos. What dafuq is the writer trying to tell us there?

Again, we don't have to see him teleport in order for him to have done it. Obviously it's too fast for us to see and too minute of a teleport. I told you this. Stop ignoring the fact that I said it. He was teleporting because Thanos said so and Runner thought he was just moving faster (Runner didn't know he was teleporting). So if you don't know that you are teleporting when you really are then you must be teleporting very quickly and small distances at a time. This is common sense.

Why are you purposely going against the EASY context of the writer? You have to be an idiot not to understand the context. Why would Runner think he is moving faster when he is fighting Thanos? He knows how fast he can go.


That's why I beat your ass (Mike Tyson) in the 1st round twice in my lifetime Happy Dance

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by h1a8
Who cares? Is Zoom fast? No he isn't. The gem is able to make runner get from one place to another in less time. Whether you say that's faster or not is irrelevant. In a fight, this power is useful. It will give the SAME EFFECT as actually being faster. That's all that matters.

Oh and Superman is far more than twice stronger than Thor. Try at least 10x dude.



Runner was using the space gem in his confrontation on Thanos. Are you stupid or something? It's plain as day. He's boasting that he's faster with it WHILE he is actually moving around Thanos. What dafuq is the writer trying to tell us there?

Again, we don't have to see him teleport in order for him to have done it. Obviously it's too fast for us to see and too minute of a teleport. I told you this. Stop ignoring the fact that I said it. He was teleporting because Thanos said so and Runner thought he was just moving faster (Runner didn't know he was teleporting). So if you don't know that you are teleporting when you really are then you must be teleporting very quickly and small distances at a time. This is common sense.

Why are you purposely going against the EASY context of the writer? You have to be an idiot not to understand the context. Why would Runner think he is moving faster when he is fighting Thanos? He knows how fast he can go.


That's why I beat your ass (Mike Tyson) in the 1st round twice in my lifetime Happy Dance

Omg...

Your logic is horrifically bad...

Superman x10 Thor in strength!??? Wow...and you have math to back that up?? LoL...

Runner teleporting in the fight even though we never see it and Thanos never states that Runner was teleporting during the fight!?

Thanos said sometimes Runner would arrive at a location before he knew he was heading for it...do you understand what this means? Do you!??

When Runner fought Thanos, he appeared to know precisely what he was doing; He consciously dodged Thanos's attack, ran off, and ran back...all on panel...no sign of teleportation.

But once again, I now understand why a few peeps here have you on ignore; your logic is so flawed that it makes rational debate with you impossible...

Epicurus
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Omg...

Your logic is horrifically bad...
Dude, how can you say such sh1t? h1a8 is our resident mathematician+physicist+baseball-swing-record-breaker+overall-genius-scientist.

Just ask your belovedly hated buddy Insane Titan how h1's posts are so beautifully constructed, they describe the symmetry(or lack of thereof) of any comic book universe with perfection. Or maybe Bran can attest to h1's grandeur?

What say you Bran? Are you up for the challenge?

Inhuman

Inhuman
Originally posted by Epicurus
Dude, how can you say such sh1t? h1a8 is our resident mathematician+physicist+baseball-swing-record-breaker+overall-genius-scientist.

Just ask your belovedly hated buddy Insane Titan how h1's posts are so beautifully constructed, they describe the symmetry(or lack of thereof) of any comic book universe with perfection. Or maybe Bran can attest to h1's grandeur?

Maybe next time before reading one of his posts i should heavily sniff glue and spray paint fumes in a paper bag. Then maybe I will understand how intricate and deep his posts really are.

h1a8

h1a8
Here is undeniable proof that Runner used the space gem on Thanos.


AFTER Runner blitzed Thanos. He asked, "And you know why I'm so fast? It's all because of this beauty right here."

https://imageshack.com/i/pdj6sm8uj

Inhuman
Ok i guess you are clinically retarded. Lets go over your post and the scan you are talking about.

Originally posted by h1a8
garbage post.

You didn't understand a word I said.
I'll repeat.
1. Runner THOUGHT he was faster than normal because of the gem, AS he was moving around Thanos.

He didnt think he was faster , he knew he was faster. Read the 1st and second panel on the scan im going to post. "I was always fast" "since I got this purple darling , I arrive at where im going before i even realize ive started running"
Do you understand what he just said? here ill explain.
He was always fast. meaning he runs real fast in space. Since he got the gem he started teleporting ON OCCASION. key phrase here is : I arrive before i start running" = teleporting. So there is no running involved. In the fight with Thanos he is running using his OWN speed. He is not teleporting, because he just said he doesnt run when he teleports. His speed doubled means he was running even faster under his own power. again , not telporting.

Originally posted by h1a8
2. Runner is boasting of himself being FASTER (not fast) with the gem AS he is moving around Thanos. The dumb ass scan with Surfer that you posted was him boosting that he is fast (reading comprehension problem). This is a big difference.

The scan of surfer was to show you how runner fights. He uses his speed and to fight and dodge. Exactly how he fought Thanos even WITHOUT the gem.
The boasting that he was faster i already explained. It meant he sometimes teleports BEFORE he even starts to run.

Originally posted by h1a8
3. Thanos agreed to put runner to the test to determine whether he is indeed faster with the gem.

There is no indication that says he wanted to test how effective the gem was. Thanos even stated afterwards that he knows the elders dont know how to tap into the gems at all only rarely.
Thanos wanted to see what runner brought to the table in order to see what the best way to get them gem was. It was all nonsense talk anyhow. Thanos just wanted to trick runner. that was the end plan all along. Thanos didnt really give a shit about testing.

Originally posted by h1a8
4. Runners speed more than doubled when he went towards Thanos.

Yes. Under his own power. No gem instant telepotation. We see him running. You think runner under his won power only runs at one speed? you dont think he can run faster if he pushes himself or slower?

Originally posted by h1a8
5. Runner at best can only go a few times light speed.

not going to waste my time on speculations.


Originally posted by h1a8
Answer this question, what is the writer trying to tell us by having Runner believe that he is faster with the gem AS he is moving around Thanos?

I already answered this. Runner was always fast. With the gem he was instantly somewhere SOMETIMES when he thought about it BEFORE he even started running. Thats why he was amazed at his new instant tranmission powers he sometimes had. he even says "sometimes".
We see him running in the Thanos fight right? So he wasnt teleporting.
And he didnt need the Gem to own surfer. He did it under his own power and speed. and surfer is a speedster.


http://i.imgur.com/zRy2Uch.jpg


Originally posted by h1a8
Here is undeniable proof that Runner used the space gem on Thanos.


AFTER Runner blitzed Thanos. He asked, "And you know why I'm so fast? It's all because of this beauty right here."

https://imageshack.com/i/pdj6sm8uj


anyhow I already explained why Runner thought he was faster with the gem. twisting shit to your own retarded fantasies wont make it true.

h1a8
Originally posted by h1a8
Here is undeniable proof that Runner used the space gem on Thanos.


AFTER Runner blitzed Thanos. He asked, "And you know why I'm so fast? It's all because of this beauty right here."

https://imageshack.com/i/pdj6sm8uj

Bottomline: There is no evidence that Runner can go beyond a few times the speed of light. He has no feats. Even his bios say he is slightly under light speed or a few times that of light speed. So it doesn't really matter as Zoom would spite stomp Runner in speed going by feats.

Laminator_X
I really don't think Zoom's speed advantage translates to victory here. Runner laughed at everything the Surfer hit him with, and then completely overpowered SS while standing toe to toe.

Deadline
and it looks like Runner can project energy a well. Zoom is so dead. Seriously though I think we have only seen Runner project energy once, so it doesn't count.

Laminator_X
Something I noticed in the duo-fight thread: the Runner intercepted the Silver Surfer during space flight. This is not so much interesting with respect to speed, as the nature of Zoom's time warping makes him pseudo-faster than anyone who doesn't have similar time powers. However it's much more interesting with respect to senses. Runner was able to get a bead on the Surfer and intercept his course while the Surfer was traveling at inter-stellar speeds. This implies some sort of superhuman perception that transcends the normal limits of spacetime event horizons. How that would interact with Zoom's time abilities is of course pure speculation, but I could see that placing him in a better position than Wally to react and respond to Zoom than Wally, despite the fact that Wally has faster reactions overall compared to the Runner.

Deadline
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Something I noticed in the duo-fight thread: the Runner intercepted the Silver Surfer during space flight. This is not so much interesting with respect to speed, as the nature of Zoom's time warping makes him pseudo-faster than anyone who doesn't have similar time powers. However it's much more interesting with respect to senses. Runner was able to get a bead on the Surfer and intercept his course while the Surfer was traveling at inter-stellar speeds. This implies some sort of superhuman perception that transcends the normal limits of spacetime event horizons. How that would interact with Zoom's time abilities is of course pure speculation, but I could see that placing him in a better position than Wally to react and respond to Zoom than Wally, despite the fact that Wally has faster reactions overall compared to the Runner.

Don't think Wally is faster and Runner and I don't think time warping is going to work either. I don't even think it would work on Grandmaster.

h1a8
Originally posted by Deadline
Don't think Wally is faster and Runner and I don't think time warping is going to work either. I don't even think it would work on Grandmaster.

Wally and Zoom are far faster than Runner. Runner has no feats.
His bios only give him a few times the speed of light.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
Something I noticed in the duo-fight thread: the Runner intercepted the Silver Surfer during space flight. This is not so much interesting with respect to speed, as the nature of Zoom's time warping makes him pseudo-faster than anyone who doesn't have similar time powers. However it's much more interesting with respect to senses. Runner was able to get a bead on the Surfer and intercept his course while the Surfer was traveling at inter-stellar speeds. This implies some sort of superhuman perception that transcends the normal limits of spacetime event horizons. How that would interact with Zoom's time abilities is of course pure speculation, but I could see that placing him in a better position than Wally to react and respond to Zoom than Wally, despite the fact that Wally has faster reactions overall compared to the Runner.

That only proves that Runner can at least go a few times that of light. We have no idea how fast Surfer was going. It could have been light speed, 5x light speed, etc.
Runner could have simply saw Surfer from distance or sensed him nearby. That's irrelevant anyway since it wouldn't prevent Runner from being a statue anyway.

Originally posted by Deadline
and it looks like Runner can project energy a well. Zoom is so dead. Seriously though I think we have only seen Runner project energy once, so it doesn't count. Zoom is so much faster than Runner that Runner would literally be a statue. Hell, Superman is faster than runner by feats.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
I really don't think Zoom's speed advantage translates to victory here. Runner laughed at everything the Surfer hit him with, and then completely overpowered SS while standing toe to toe. You are exaggerating. Surfer only hit him with a single blast or two. That's it. Nothing more. There was no laugh. Energy durability is not the same as blunt force durability. Zoom can hit harder than Superman. This is a fact. Even if Zoom hits as hard as Superman then he would greatly affect Runner. I believe Thanos energy blast could have affected Runner, otherwise Runner wouldn't have avoided it.

the Darkone
Runner beats Zoom, as an Elder the Runner can tap into Power Primordial basically increasing his abilities if so chooses. The Runner is at least warp-speed, Runner will beat the hell out of Superman and then beat Zoom for sh** and giggles.

Ambient
Can Zoom fly? Because if he can't this is spite. I know his capable of inf. punch but his opponent got the durability to withstand quite a few of this unless of course his shown on panel to throw a million of this instantly to someone on par or close to Runner in speed, Ie. Flash

h1a8
Originally posted by Ambient
Can Zoom fly? Because if he can't this is spite. I know his capable of inf. punch but his opponent got the durability to withstand quite a few of this unless of course his shown on panel to throw a million of this instantly to someone on par or close to Runner in speed, Ie. Flash Why would he need to fly? Characters don't start out of reach far above the ground before the bell rings.
Also why would either character stay out of reach if that was the case?

h1a8
Originally posted by the Darkone
Runner beats Zoom, as an Elder the Runner can tap into Power Primordial basically increasing his abilities if so chooses. The Runner is at least warp-speed, Runner will beat the hell out of Superman and then beat Zoom for sh** and giggles. Making stuff up are we. This is pure trolling.
Runner has no speed feats and no feats to say he can beat Superman.
Runner would be a statue to Zoom.

Ambient
Originally posted by h1a8
Why would he need to fly? Characters don't start out of reach far above the ground before the bell rings.
Also why would either character stay out of reach if that was the case?
Because the opponent runs on air/ space. Do you think this battle's battle ground limit on land?

DarkSaint85
When the match starts everyone is on the ground.

Ambient
Right. So unless Zooms Ko's runner instantly then it ends on land but if not it's going airborne. Now I know Zooms much, much faster than Runner but i think that Runners got the durability to withstand Zooms initial onslaught before he bring this battle to his stips.

h1a8
Originally posted by Ambient
Right. So unless Zooms Ko's runner instantly then it ends on land but if not it's going airborne. Now I know Zooms much, much faster than Runner but i think that Runners got the durability to withstand Zooms initial onslaught before he bring this battle to his stips. Runner has no durability feats of withstanding Superman level physical attacks or greater. His only feat is tanking a random Surfer blast, which is irrelevant in this fight.

Inhuman
Originally posted by h1a8
His only feat is tanking a random Surfer blast, which is irrelevant in this fight.

thumb down



http://i.imgur.com/7O11W4u.jpg http://i.imgur.com/B2l9aWE.jpg


Did you miss the part where says "We will see how much you can take Elder"? "His power is stronger than mine"?
Surfer was giving it his all , and got over powered.
Runner took all the Surfer gave him and was fine. Didn't seem to even be affected by surfers best power output.
Earlier in this arc, Surfer KO'ed Champion with one of his blasts.

Lets see how you try to lowball these scans with your delusional interpretations.

DarkSaint85
I guess h1's point is that he didn't tank any punches or physical blows.

Surfer DOES lose on a strength contest, which could equate to physical durabilty? These things usually go hand-in-hand in comics.

Inhuman
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I guess h1's point is that he didn't tank any punches or physical blows.

Surfer DOES lose on a strength contest, which could equate to physical durabilty? These things usually go hand-in-hand in comics.

Surfer seems to punch Runner in the 1st scan/4th panel. Those red lines are similar to the ones where runner kicks surfer in the 2nd panel.
I don't think it was a blast. Surfer doesn't shoot his cosmic blasts that way. Most likely a power cosmic amped punch. which runner tanked unaffected.

DarkSaint85
I saw it as a blast *shrug* what with the distance between them and the energy trails. Unless the Surfer was knocked backwards by the force? Because the Runner is obv speeding into him (see the bottom of the board in the panel you describe), and yet, there is a significant distance between them to throw an uppercut.

Inhuman
This is what happened after Runner threw Surfer into that planet. Surfer was dying and would have probably died if Mantis didnt show up and save his life.
Shows how powerful Runnner really is , almost killing Surfer while not even exerting himself.


http://i.imgur.com/fY3gBDz.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0yHhF6Q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bqwgptH.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/vC8Cs9Q.jpg

DarkSaint85
Last scan, third panel.

Pervy Surfer thumb up

Inhuman
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Last scan, third panel.

Pervy Surfer thumb up

heh, yeah. Even almost at death, Surfer cant ignore some boobs in his faceflirt1

Ambient
Originally posted by h1a8
Runner has no durability feats of withstanding Superman level physical attacks or greater. His only feat is tanking a random Surfer blast, which is irrelevant in this fight.
And Zoom has? Uber punches that KO's high herald level physique. See how we're at encompass here.

A blast is a blast, it's aim is to take out a cosmic entity and should carry ample power to which made absolute no effect. That is a great durability feat and it's pretty much relevance on this match unless of course you can show that Runner is more susceptible to physical attacks.

Laminator_X
The only things we've seen harm the Runner are Thanos with the Time Gem aging him (Elders can age if they don't counteract it) and Glalactus consuming him (and his essence eventually escaped from big G's tummy too).

Deadline
Originally posted by Laminator_X
The only things we've seen harm the Runner are Thanos with the Time Gem aging him (Elders can age if they don't counteract it)

No I think it was PIS I think they're supposed to be immune to aging.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Hell yeah he could. Thanos has never beaten Surfer that easily...

Plus that whole aging incident was PIS...Runner is thirteen billion years old, what would one million years matter to him? What the f**k?

Sry I think it was simply that the amount of time Thanos made him age shouldn't have made a difference.

Laminator_X
Maybe so. Some of the Elders seem, well, elderly - while others look youthful. I figured that they use their power to counteract aging and stay at an age they like to be. The aging makes about as much sense as the Soul Gem's de-volving power doe, really.

Deadline
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Maybe so. Some of the Elders seem, well, elderly - while others look youthful. I figured that they use their power to counteract aging and stay at an age they like to be. The aging makes about as much sense as the Soul Gem's de-volving power doe, really.

Could be like the theory behind gamma radiation and cosmic radiation mutation. Personality gets involved in how powers manifest.

This just got super nerdy.

GroggyGrunt
I just realized something going over this thread...the Time Gem, the one that Runner possessed, is completely incapable of increasing someone's actual, physical speed. It ONLY allows the influence of time. Therefore, the argument about the showing vs. Thanos can only be about whether or not he was teleporting via time-jumping and not about whether he was actually running faster, as directly increasing someone's physical movement speed is outside of the Time Gem's capabilities.

Based on the illustration and the dialogue, I think Runner was moving completely under his own power during that exchange.

Throwing that out there.

DarkSaint85
What is speed?

GroggyGrunt
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What is speed?

No no no, none of that semantic tomfoolery. That's why I specifically said "physical movement speed". My point is that you are either arguing that he's teleporting (via time-jumping) in that encounter or you're relenting that he's not using the Time Gem. Only this.

You want to ball-up time-travel into your concept of "speed", fine...but in relation to the encounter with Thanos, he is EITHER teleporting or not using the gem. What happens and what is said on-panel leads me to believe that he is not using the gem in that encounter.

DarkSaint85
No, because its not teleporting.

Its akin to Zoom, actually, who appears to be moving fast, because speed is distance divided by time, after all.

Shortening the time taken to move somewhere IS increasing your speed, as distance stays constant.

Deadline
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Maybe so. Some of the Elders seem, well, elderly - while others look youthful. I figured that they use their power to counteract aging and stay at an age they like to be. The aging makes about as much sense as the Soul Gem's de-volving power doe, really.

Oh and I just remembered it could be something like The Eternals. Some Eternals have different ages and that's due to their personality or and choice. There is one Eternal called Sprite who has the body of a pre-adolescent child but I think it has been retconned to him having that form against his choice.

DarkSaint85
In fact, that's a good way of looking at it.

Zoom is essentially the Time Gem.

Laminator_X
The Runner had Space, actually, not that he knew how to use it. Thanos had Time, and used it on the Runner while they were talking.

GroggyGrunt
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, because its not teleporting.

Its akin to Zoom, actually, who appears to be moving fast, because speed is distance divided by time, after all.

Shortening the time taken to move somewhere IS increasing your speed, as distance stays constant.

Teleporting via time-jumping. Straight teleportation would be the Space Gem. Hence the "arriving at a destination before knowing what it was" and Thanos making a point to define it as "MENTAL teleportation". In other words, Runner WAS coming up with a destination, but arrived there at a time prior to him doing so due to the subconscious nature of Runner's control (or lack thereof). It's comic-book logic, but it's what's in play.

And again, that's why I specifically said "physical movement speed" i.e. running fast. The Power Gem would be responsible for an increase in physical movement speed.

Like I said, you can argue your point on what "speed" means here all you like, I'm not addressing that. I am specifically addressing the Thanos encounter. Either he was teleporting via time-jumping, or he wasn't using the gem. That is the summation of my point, which is not the one that you are addressing. I'm not arguing what "speed" is, I'm arguing what happened in the encounter with Thanos.



I wouldn't argue against that. I only have cursory knowledge of Zoom, but I understand he operates on time manipulation rather than physical speed. However, I think the Time Gem would grant powers beyond Zoom's to a knowledgeable possessor. Zoom travels in time but the gem directly controls time.

GroggyGrunt
Originally posted by Laminator_X
The Runner had Space, actually, not that he knew how to use it. Thanos had Time, and used it on the Runner while they were talking.

Doh, you're absolutely right. What I said about the Runner using the Time Gem was completely incorrect.

What I said about the effect it has on the Thanos encounter still stands, though. Either he was teleporting OR he wasn't using the gem. Simple.

Laminator_X
I don't think he was using the Space Gem during their encounter, apart perhaps from the initial bushwhack. There's no way to tell definatively of course, but he didn't do anything to Thanos he didn't do just as well to the Silver Surfer before he gained the gem.

Galan007
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What is speed? zoom. thumb up

GroggyGrunt
Originally posted by Laminator_X
I don't think he was using the Space Gem during their encounter, apart perhaps from the initial bushwhack. There's no way to tell definatively of course, but he didn't do anything to Thanos he didn't do just as well to the Silver Surfer before he gained the gem.

I agree. I don't see anything in the panels presented that would lead me to think he's using the gem.

Laminator_X
Originally posted by Tezuseo
Runner isn't even the fastest in Marvel. Makkari beat him already. Zoom stomps

I'd call that a Spider-Man vs Firelord incident. That story is completely inconsistant with all his other appearances, has inconsistencies within the issue itself, and has the Roadrunner handing out medals.

Laminator_X
Runner also showed interstellar speeds, walking through walls, and casually strolling around on the surface of a star in his first story back in New Defenders.

Zoom's time warping pseudo speed makes him seem faster in some respects, but how do you figure he's going to hurt the Runner?

Inhuman
Originally posted by Tezuseo
Runner isn't even the fastest in Marvel. Makkari beat him already. Zoom stomps

I dont think anything that happened in the quasar, runner race story by Gruenwald is even canon. Besides all the cartoonish character nods like road runner and a rabbit, a turtle, etc, and the obvious homage to barry allen; in that arc if you reach light speed then you are stuck in a "speed mode" (dimension?). In that "mode" makkari can only interact with other speedsters.
ill post what i got. For some reason I cant find the scan where runner tells makarri that he too can go to that "mode" but he chooses not to in order for him not to be stuck in it.

Pretty stupid. Dont think its canon , because if it is then there wouldn't be anyone in the marvel universe going light speed or past it without being stuck in that speed mode. That race and whatever feats came out it shouldn't be taken seriously.





http://i.imgur.com/QbiIksk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VvZBV65.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/2xJLMB8.jpg

krisblaze
^that's more or less how waid handled Flash's entry into lightspeed.

Deadline
Originally posted by Inhuman
I dont think anything that happened in the quasar, runner race story by Gruenwald is even canon. Besides all the cartoonish character nods like road runner and a rabbit, a turtle, etc, and the obvious homage to barry allen; in that arc if you reach light speed then you are stuck in a "speed mode" (dimension?). In that "mode" makkari can only interact with other speedsters.
ill post what i got. For some reason I cant find the scan where runner tells makarri that he too can go to that "mode" but he chooses not to in order for him not to be stuck in it.

Pretty stupid. Dont think its canon , because if it is then there wouldn't be anyone in the marvel universe going light speed or past it without being stuck in that speed mode. That race and whatever feats came out it shouldn't be taken seriously.





http://i.imgur.com/QbiIksk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VvZBV65.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/2xJLMB8.jpg

Just the fact that he can converse with him implies he was in that mode as well.

Inhuman
Originally posted by Deadline
Just the fact that he can converse with him implies he was in that mode as well.

No in that "mode" Makkari can only interact with other speedsters. Even if they are not stuck in this "speed freeze mode". Runner was not in that "mode" if he was he would have not lost, but would have been stuck in it.
The scan im missing explains this. Its highly retarded. Not worth even discussing imo.

Laminator_X
Originally posted by Inhuman
I dont think anything that happened in the quasar, runner race story by Gruenwald is even canon. ...That race and whatever feats came out it shouldn't be taken seriously.

http://i.imgur.com/QbiIksk.jpg

I love the look on Ikaris's face on his date with Thena. Total mack.

Deadline
Originally posted by Laminator_X
I love the look on Ikaris's face on his date with Thena. Total mack.

Really? Though he was just happy.

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