Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

All out who wins?

Team 2, Sids is just too much.

I believe Revan would give Sidious a good fight and would last longer than Dooku would against Anakin.

At the same time I could see Anakin losing to Dooku if he doesn't have the same focus as he did when he fought Dooku in ROTS.

I see the fight going either way.

Team 2 solidly.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I believe Revan would give Sidious a good fight and would last longer than Dooku would against Anakin.

Naah

Team 2.

Originally posted by Sinious
Team 2 solidly.



Naah
I'm guessing the fact that Revan was able to go up against an fully empowered emperor vitiate on a dark nexus is not enough for you.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I'm guessing the fact that Revan was able to go up against an fully empowered emperor vitiate on a dark nexus is not enough for you.

Well he was defeated wasn't he? You make it sound like he achieved something against the Sith Emperor. Its a fact that Vitiate is considerably more powerful than Revan where Dooku and Anakin are almost equals. Sidious vs Revan would probably end faster than Dooku vs Anakin.

*whistles*

You're really determined.

Sinus speaks sense for once in his life

lol I've never denied Sidious' supremacy in combat though.

Oh and Sinious*

Originally posted by Sinious
, Sidious' saber skills make him more dangerous than Vitiate in combat. He is more powerful in the force than Revan which means he could easily come close to Revan and turn this into a saber fight and then just strike him down before Anakin gets to kill Dooku. I don't see how team 1 has a chance here.

Malak was not more powerful than Revan, even when amped by the Star Forge. I'm not sure where you got that from.

Yeah he really wasn't and he was no where near Sidious' level.

Also, Anakin may have defeated Dooku like that but Dooku right before losing to Anakin dominated a fight against Anakin and his master. If Anakin had faced Dooku alone, he might have died instead of Dooku.

Sidious potentially solos but with Dooku this is a solid 9/10 win.

Originally posted by Sinious

Also, Anakin may have defeated Dooku like that but Dooku right before losing to Anakin dominated a fight against Anakin and his master. If Anakin had faced Dooku alone, he might have died instead of Dooku.
Dooku wasn't dominating in that fight. The only time he had the edge is when he talked about Shmi, and that only lasted a few seconds at best.

I meant that he was able disable Anakin completely with a kick and then TK Obi-wan.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Malak was not more powerful than Revan, even when amped by the Star Forge. I'm not sure where you got that from.
There is no quote that I know of that states this specifically. Even though Revan may have had a stronger connection to the force (as stated by Malak), having fought through the SF as a Jedi (which would attribute no amplifying effects) without a fully restored memory, it is my assumption that Malak (who professed to have grown in power or surpassed Darth Revan) with the amplifying effects of the SF would be stronger than Revan at the time of their encounter.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I personally feel that a fully empowered Vitiate is above ROTS Sidious and more on the level of ROTJ Sidious

Perhaps on a general scale he is close, but in single combat? Blades, focused Lightning? No.

Originally posted by Selenial
Perhaps on a general scale he is close, but in single combat? Blades, focused Lightning? No.
I'd actually say lightning is their closest point of comparability.

Originally posted by Kotor3
There is no quote that I know of that states this specifically. Even though Revan may have had a stronger connection to the force (as stated by Malak), having fought through the SF as a Jedi (which would attribute no amplifying effects) without a fully restored memory, it is my assumption that Malak (who professed to have grown in power or surpassed Darth Revan) with the amplifying effects of the SF would be stronger than Revan at the time of their encounter.

But Malak lost.

Repeatedly.

Originally posted by Kotor3
There is no quote that I know of that states this specifically. Even though Revan may have had a stronger connection to the force (as stated by Malak), having fought through the SF as a Jedi (which would attribute no amplifying effects) without a fully restored memory, it is my assumption that Malak (who professed to have grown in power or surpassed Darth Revan) with the amplifying effects of the SF would be stronger than Revan at the time of their encounter.
Malak lost like terribad. Several times. To an exhausted Jedi in a nexus like setting.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Malak lost like terribad. Several times. To an exhausted Jedi in a nexus like setting.
That speaks more to Revan than it belittles Malak. Is this your reason for assuming Malak was weaker because of losing multiple times?

Thats a pretty big indicator of it.

Kootor3 well your entire point was to prove Malak's superiority over Revan which is what people are disagreeing with here.

Revan and Malak were designed to be very close individuals in power (as stated by Drew), hence the difficulty both faced on the Star Forge.

Originally posted by Kotor3
That speaks more to Revan than it belittles Malak. Is this your reason for assuming Malak was weaker because of losing multiple times?
No.....Well yes. That and the fact that everyone else said Revan was more powerful than Malak as well. Seriously. It's not that hard to put two and two together. Malak was a more skilled duelist, but he couldn't compete with Revan Force-wise.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan and Malak were designed to be very close individuals in power (as stated by Drew), hence the difficulty both faced on the Star Forge.
While that is the case, the assertion that Malak>Revan is still contrary to what we saw go down on the Star Forge.

Originally posted by Selenial
Perhaps on a general scale he is close, but in single combat? Blades, focused Lightning? No.
Opinions vary on this one. So fair enough if you feel that way. Like the battle between Yoda and Sidious, in the end it came down to a battle of the force than that of saber skills.

On the Star Forge, I find it actually a realistic assessment that Malak was more powerful then Revan, to be honest.
Some Revanites took merely pieces of the Star Forge and become like nearly-invincible. The amp is just incredible.
Revan having a "brutal" battle with Darth Malak but barely pulling through at the end is how I always imagined it, same as Drew.

Forgive me if I'm not recalling the lines correctly, but doesn't Malak pretty much admit his inferiority to Revan after that fight?

Of course, he lost. In the eyes of defeat and all your power vanquished, it would be hard not to admit inferiority.

Except he lost at least 3 times in a row with Revan having to fight to get to him. He's blatantly inferior.

He lost three times in a row, but like I said, I find the 'wall of light' thing highly likely.
Revan encasing the stasis chamber in light energies, blocking out all darkness (in which a full light-side completion Revan would do according to the Prima Guide) would weaken Darth Malak.

Originally posted by Sinious
Kootor3 well your entire point was to prove Malak's superiority over Revan which is what people are disagreeing with here.
I know everyone is disagreeing. However, I still disagree. Revan was said to be more the stronger of the two. Understood.

Revan would always have the greater potential in the force however, we are talking about a Revan who lost all of his memories and knowledge of the force and had to be retrained in the ways of the Jedi. Even when he gained some of his memory it wasn't everything.

It was Malak who told us that Revan connection to the force was stronger than previously. It was Malak who said that he surpassed Darth Revan. Unless Revan had gained enough of his past memories by the time he faced Malak, I find it hard to believe that he would have reach the potential to be stronger than Malak while being amplified by the SF.

As someone who places Darth Revan above KotOR!Revan, I find it unlikely Malak ever surpassed his former master until he was amplified by the Star Forge, if even then.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
As someone who places Darth Revan above KotOR!Revan, I find it unlikely Malak ever surpassed his former master until he was amplified by the Star Forge, if even then.
What are your views on rating Revan's relative incarnations?

You place Darth Revan above KOTOR Revan, yet I thought you had KOTOR Revan equal to Novel Revan. Did I miss something?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He lost three times in a row, but like I said, I find the 'wall of light' thing highly likely.
Revan encasing the stasis chamber in light energies, blocking out all darkness (in which a full light-side completion Revan would do according to the Prima Guide) would weaken Darth Malak.

Oh yeah? And Revan knows the Wall of Light technique, does he?

But if you really think Revan weakened Malak through that method, well that really takes away from the impressiveness of the feat.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I know everyone is disagreeing. However, I still disagree. Revan was said to be more the stronger of the two. Understood.

Revan would always have the greater potential in the force however, we are talking about a Revan who lost all of his memories and knowledge of the force and had to be retrained in the ways of the Jedi. Even when he gained some of his memory it wasn't everything.

It was Malak who told us that Revan connection to the force was stronger than previously. It was Malak who said that he surpassed Darth Revan. Unless Revan had gained enough of his past memories by the time he faced Malak, I find it hard to believe that he would have reach the potential to be stronger than Malak while being amplified by the SF.

Then how did he win?

Over and over and over again?

I don't mean *exactly* the the wall of light, but a similar attack. Like how Kyle Katarn did against Jerec. NewGuy01 agrees.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No.....Well yes. That and the fact that everyone else said Revan was more powerful than Malak as well. Seriously. It's not that hard to put two and two together. Malak was a more skilled duelist, but he couldn't compete with Revan Force-wise.
I do not see how Malak wouldn't be able to compete force-wise with a Revan whose memories were not fully restored also while being amp by the SF.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What are your views on rating Revan's relative incarnations?

You place Darth Revan above KOTOR Revan, yet I thought you had KOTOR Revan equal to Novel Revan. Did I miss something?
Grand Master Revan is his most power incarnation, a more advanced incarnation then Revan on the Foundry or against the Sith Emperor. I have very high expectations for him.
Darth Revan would be close to that of Revan when he worked alongside Scourge, but obviously not an equal. The older Revan is clearly superior to the Darth in some aspects.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I don't mean *exactly* the the wall of light, but a similar attack. Like how Kyle Katarn did against Jerec. NewGuy01 agrees.

Oh yeah? And he's demonstrated the ability to use something similar to it, has he? That is very interesting.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats a pretty big indicator of it.
How so?

I wouldn't say that Anakin was more knowledgeable in the force than Dooku or more powerful at the time of ROTS. I would state that he had the potential to surpass Dooku at anytime due to his potential in the force .

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh yeah? And he's demonstrated the ability to use something similar to it, has he? That is very interesting.
Nor did Kyle, if you read the book (you didn't.) He just did it without any knowledge on the attack or anything.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
As someone who places Darth Revan above KotOR!Revan, I find it unlikely Malak ever surpassed his former master until he was amplified by the Star Forge, if even then.
To be clear I am only referring to Malak as being superior while amplified by the SF. That is the only statement I have made.

I can respect that statement, as there is a nice deal of evidence that supports that. There is also nice collection of evidence that supports otherwise.

Originally posted by Kotor3
How so?

I wouldn't say that Anakin was more knowledgeable in the force than Dooku or more powerful at the time of ROTS. I would state that he had the potential to surpass Dooku at anytime due to his potential in the force .

When you beat someone 3 or more times in row, despite not being at your full ability.... that's a big indication that you're superior. Anakin only beat Dooku once and at the time hell yeah he was superior. He cut his hands off by choosing to, obviously he was better.

I don't understand how you can think Malak was better than Revan when he lost again and again and again. That's kind of stupid, no offense.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Forgive me if I'm not recalling the lines correctly, but doesn't Malak pretty much admit his inferiority to Revan after that fight?
He admits that the Light isn't weaker than the Dark and that he could never be the true ruler of the galaxy, or something like that.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nor did Kyle, if you read the book (you didn't.) He just did it without any knowledge on the attack or anything.

Ah, ok. So you don't actually have to provide any evidence for this theory for it to be totally possible. Seems legit.

Ok, so I guess I have to significantly lower my estimation of Kotor Revan. Le sign.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Then how did he win?
Over and over and over again?
You ask these questions as if only inferior force users lose battles. Cleary that is not the case in the Star Wars Universe. How did he win? Through superior skill and most of all because that is the way they wrote the story.

Malak never gave any indication on the SF that he felt that Revan had surpassed him while amplified even though he acknowledge that Revan had a stronger connection to the force.

Originally posted by Nephthys
When you beat someone 3 or more times in row, despite not being at your full ability.... that's a big indication that you're superior. Anakin only beat Dooku once and at the time hell yeah he was superior. He cut his hands off by choosing to, obviously he was better.

I don't understand how you can think Malak was better than Revan when he lost again and again and again. That's kind of stupid, no offense.
In all reality, with the boost Darth Malak should be receiving, he should be like a ****ing god, an easily the most powerful being in the galaxy:

"The Star Forge was a Force-imbued, self-sustaining shipyard. Rakatan. It was destroyed centuries ago, but the Revanites have recovered some of the wreckage. Its technology makes the soldiers nearly immortal. Seizes their minds as well, placing them under the Revanites' full control."
--Lana Beniko (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ah, ok. So you don't actually have to provide any evidence for this theory for it to be totally possible. Seems legit.

Ok, so I guess I have to significantly lower my estimation of Kotor Revan. Le sign.
The evidence is in the Prima Guide.

Lol wut? Beating Malak in his amped state is insane.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I do not see how Malak wouldn't be able to compete force-wise with a Revan whose memories were not fully restored also while being amp by the SF.
Revan regained a shit ton of his Force knowledge in the weeks-months following his defeat at the hands of Malak on the Leviathan. By the end he's mastered the Light Side, or is at least implied to and given the station of master.

Originally posted by Kotor3
You ask these questions as if only inferior force users lose battles. Cleary that is not the case in the Star Wars Universe. How did he win? Through superior skill and most of all because that is the way they wrote the story.

Malak never gave any indication on the SF that he felt that Revan had surpassed him while amplified even though he acknowledge that Revan had a stronger connection to the force.

But your own argument is that Revan was only half-trained and lacked knowledge. Since he'd only had a few months of Jedi experience at that point, whereas Malak had decades. So how was he more skilled?

Malak doesn't need to indicate anything. The game gives us all the indication we need when he loses. And then loses again. And then loses again. And possibly more.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In all reality, with the boost Darth Malak should be receiving, he should be like a ****ing god, an easily the most powerful being in the galaxy:

"The Star Forge was a Force-imbued, self-sustaining shipyard. Rakatan. It was destroyed centuries ago, but the Revanites have recovered some of the wreckage. Its technology makes the soldiers nearly immortal. Seizes their minds as well, placing them under the Revanites' full control."
--Lana Beniko (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17hch76q7bxshjpg/original.jpg

Well firstly Vitiate, Soa, World Razer, Dread Masters, (possibly) Nihilus, Sel-Makor and the Anchorites >>>>>> Malak no matter what amp he gets.

And secondly that quote does actually imply much of anything. Theres a difference between immortal and invincible.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The evidence is in the Prima Guide.

Lol wut? Beating Malak in his amped state is insane.

Isn't that just game mechanics?

Nah. Dooku could beat him comfortably.

Originally posted by Nephthys
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17hch76q7bxshjpg/original.jpg

Well firstly Vitiate, Soa, World Razer, Dread Masters, (possibly) Nihilus, Sel-Makor and the Anchorites >>>>>> Malak no matter what amp he gets.

And secondly that quote does actually imply much of anything. Theres a difference between immortal and invincible.
I was referring to KotOR characters. though I find it unlikely the Dread Masters were.

You don't find 'immortal' impressive? Though, I'm not going to really debate it with you until the new update is actually released.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But your own argument is that Revan was only half-trained and lacked knowledge. Since he'd only had a few months of Jedi experience at that point, whereas Malak had decades. So how was he more skilled?
Malak doesn't need to indicate anything. The game gives us all the indication we need when he loses. And then loses again. And then loses again. And possibly more.
My point is not that Revan was half-trained but that he did not have the full knowledge of the force as he did as Darth Revan due to his loss of memories. So he would not have been at the same level of skill or potential as a force user.

However he did regain some of his memories before fighting Malak. So he obviously would have regain some of if not all of his knowledge of the force which would have increase his skill and potential greatly.