Juubito vs Ashura Naruto

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NewGuy01
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SSJGGogeta
Naruto wins.

He and Sasuke were able to beat Kaguya, who was "on a whole other level" than Jyuubidara, who was stronger than Jyuubito.

pym-ftw
I agree Naruto wins but your post perfectly explains why powerscaling is stupid.

SSJGGogeta
And why's that?

I will admit that Naruto and Sasuke should have had a lot more trouble with Kaguya than they did, because they had such a rough time against just Madara, but Madara DID have a lot of abilities that made him extremely dangerous, such as Limbo, infinite Tsukiyomi, planetary devastation, etc.

However, that doesn't make powerscaling stupid. Which it isn't, if you use it right.

Q99
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Naruto wins.

He and Sasuke were able to beat Kaguya, who was "on a whole other level" than Jyuubidara, who was stronger than Jyuubito.


Sure, but the duo was clearly a lot individually weaker than Kaguya, they just had a sealing jutsu for the job, and they ended up needing Obito, Sakura, and Kakashi-with-perfect-Susano'o to win.

I'd think Juubito and Ashura Naruto would be pretty close in level.

pym-ftw
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
And why's that?

I will admit that Naruto and Sasuke should have had a lot more trouble with Kaguya than they did, because they had such a rough time against just Madara, but Madara DID have a lot of abilities that made him extremely dangerous, such as Limbo, infinite Tsukiyomi, planetary devastation, etc.

However, that doesn't make powerscaling stupid. Which it isn't, if you use it right. Because Kaguya lacked massive displays of power, she was literally only powerful because of her haxx abilities.

Honestly if you gave Minato just a dimension hop he'd crush her 10/10

yungz22
I agree this would be a good fight because its not like naruto beat kaguya or juubito on his own he had help for both fights

Q99
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Because Kaguya lacked massive displays of power, she was literally only powerful because of her haxx abilities.


Uh, she had a Truth Seeking ball bigger than any of the Biju balls! That's literally the biggest jutsu ever seen in the series.

And the space warping stuff she did was pretty powerful too.

Heck, her direct attacks, while not boomy, were able to penetrate right through powerful defenses. Considering these are people who could swat away biju balls, think about the power in those attacks, even if they were just stabby things.

AuraAngel
Hmm

Basically Power vs Speed. Juubito unquestionably dwarfs current Naruto in terms of power output, both with the stronger Bijuu Bombs, Goudama, and chakra claws. He also has a very powerful barrier technique that he could use to trap Naruto.

Naruto on the other hand has more variety and was able to blitz Kaguya, who could react to Sasuke's Teleportation technique. Obito was able to react to Tobirama's FTG too but Naruto has the better feats with speed. He also has a ton more variety since he could rely on all the Bijuu. Add that with his Shadow Clones and Naruto has a perfect blend of power, speed, and variety.

But if Juubito created the six point barrier and blasted the insides with Juubidama them I'm not sure what Naruto could conceivably do to protect himself. And while Naruto would likely be able to wreck him in a fight, assuming Juubito doesn't rip him to shreds with chakra claws, Naruto would probably try to save the Bijuu. If he engages in a similar chakra tug of war then Obito would probably win since it took an entire army to save the Bijuu and even a weakened Obito could steal some chakra from the much stronger Juubidara.

But hey that's my two cents. Naruto could do a Rin style harem technique and win the day pretty easily.

Rikudo sennin
Naruto stomps.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Hmm

Basically Power vs Speed. Juubito unquestionably dwarfs current Naruto in terms of power output, both with the stronger Bijuu Bombs, Goudama, and chakra claws. He also has a very powerful barrier technique that he could use to trap Naruto.

Naruto on the other hand has more variety and was able to blitz Kaguya, who could react to Sasuke's Teleportation technique. Obito was able to react to Tobirama's FTG too but Naruto has the better feats with speed. He also has a ton more variety since he could rely on all the Bijuu. Add that with his Shadow Clones and Naruto has a perfect blend of power, speed, and variety.

But if Juubito created the six point barrier and blasted the insides with Juubidama them I'm not sure what Naruto could conceivably do to protect himself. And while Naruto would likely be able to wreck him in a fight, assuming Juubito doesn't rip him to shreds with chakra claws, Naruto would probably try to save the Bijuu. If he engages in a similar chakra tug of war then Obito would probably win since it took an entire army to save the Bijuu and even a weakened Obito could steal some chakra from the much stronger Juubidara.

But hey that's my two cents. Naruto could do a Rin style harem technique and win the day pretty easily.

Uh, no he doesn't.

Ashura Naruto >= Kaguya.

Kaguya > Jyuubidara.

Jyuubidara > Jyuubito.

Naruto is stronger, faster, and has better techniques.

He stomps.

Even without the rin sexy no jutsu.

Q99
I think I'd probably bet on Naruto. They both have truth seeking balls. Juubito has a fantastic ability to absorb all non-sage ninjutsu... which is helpful against none of Naruto's attacks because everything he does is sage.

And Naruto has his biju-release rasenshuriken like lava rasenshuriken, which struck me as better than biju balls.

Rikudo sennin
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Uh, no he doesn't.

Ashura Naruto >= Kaguya.

Kaguya > Jyuubidara.

Jyuubidara > Jyuubito.

Naruto is stronger, faster, and has better techniques.

He stomps.

Even without the rin sexy no jutsu.

LOL Naruto is not equal or greater than Kaguya. He had tons of help and PIS/CIS on his side.

AuraAngel
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Uh, no he doesn't.

Ashura Naruto >= Kaguya.

Kaguya > Jyuubidara.

Jyuubidara > Jyuubito.

Naruto is stronger, faster, and has better techniques.

He stomps.

Even without the rin sexy no jutsu.

Kaguya would have killed both Naruto and Sasuke had it not been for Obito, Kakashi, and a little bit of Sakura's help. So no, he is not better or equal to Kaguya.

Besides if we use that calculation then Naruto should have curbed Juubidara and yet Madara accomplished his goals pretty easily despite Naruto having Sasuke's help.

Based on feats I'd frankly pick Juubito over Juubidara.

Originally posted by Q99
I think I'd probably bet on Naruto. They both have truth seeking balls. Juubito has a fantastic ability to absorb all non-sage ninjutsu... which is helpful against none of Naruto's attacks because everything he does is sage.

And Naruto has his biju-release rasenshuriken like lava rasenshuriken, which struck me as better than biju balls.

Well if we're taking knowledge of the characters into account then Juubito knows Sage techs hurt and will thus defend against them. His goudama could stop Sage Powered Bijuu Bombs and even four of the Juubi's attacks. That is more power than Asura Naruto has demonstrated lol.

If Obito brings up his barrier and fires the Juubidamas what can Naruto do to stop him?

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
LOL Naruto is not equal or greater than Kaguya. He had tons of help and PIS/CIS on his side.

LOL, he clearly is.

He only had the help of two people that mattered, and one of them only got that strong after Obito died(Kakashi, when he became the strongest in the series for a few chapters).

He was able to warp out of her gravity pull and rip her phucking arm off, AFTER fighting the ten tails, Jyuubito, Jyuubidara, AND her for a while. That clearly proves him to be AT LEAST her equal.

It's not really PIS or CIS at this point. It's happened too often to be chalked as anything other than luck. But it's still a non-factor, for all intents and purposes.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Kaguya would have killed both Naruto and Sasuke had it not been for Obito, Kakashi, and a little bit of Sakura's help. So no, he is not better or equal to Kaguya.

Besides if we use that calculation then Naruto should have curbed Juubidara and yet Madara accomplished his goals pretty easily despite Naruto having Sasuke's help.

Based on feats I'd frankly pick Juubito over Juubidara.



Well if we're taking knowledge of the characters into account then Juubito knows Sage techs hurt and will thus defend against them. His goudama could stop Sage Powered Bijuu Bombs and even four of the Juubi's attacks. That is more power than Asura Naruto has demonstrated lol.

If Obito brings up his barrier and fires the Juubidamas what can Naruto do to stop him?

Uh, have you even read the series? Kaguya got her damn arm ripped off by Naruto, who at the time had NO help whatsoever.

Sasuke didn't do much either, and Obito wasn't much of a factor either. All he did was help Naruto avoid ONE deva rod, which he would have warped away from anyway. Like he did when he tore off Kaguya's arm.

What? Jyuubito doesn't even HAVE any feats. At least nowhere near what Jyuubidara and Kaguya, or Naruto and Sasuke do. Jyuubito's best feat is stopping a sage mode, biju bomb from a half power Kurama. His strongest attack, the God's blade, got shattered by Sasuke's regular Susano'o covering Naruto's weakened Kurama. Sasuke's perfect Susano'o, and Naruto's Asura Kurama are both stronger than the Susano'o Kurama from them earlier on.

Naruto overpowered Kaguya's massive Biju bomb, which was demonstrably more powerful than anything seen previously, by anyone. It was a small moon sized Biju bomb. And Naruto overpowered it.

You're forgetting that even regular sage mode Naruto injured Jyuubito. thumb up

His durability is literally nothing compared to Asura Naruto's, and so is his strength. Naruto blitzed Kaguya, so his speed is clearly much greater too.

Jyuubito has NOTHING going for him here.

Naruto would warp out of the barrier, if he couldn't just break through it, and he would tank those biju bombs from the tree, considering he dealt with ones from Kaguya that made them look like pebbles.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
LOL, he clearly is.

He only had the help of two people that mattered, and one of them only got that strong after Obito died(Kakashi, when he became the strongest in the series for a few chapters).

He was able to warp out of her gravity pull and rip her phucking arm off, AFTER fighting the ten tails, Jyuubito, Jyuubidara, AND her for a while. That clearly proves him to be AT LEAST her equal.

It's not really PIS or CIS at this point. It's happened too often to be chalked as anything other than luck. But it's still a non-factor, for all intents and purposes.
None of that was possible for Naruto to do by himself. In fact Madara actually "killed" him and he's far less powerful than Kaguya.

As for this thread, I'm in favor of Juubito on this one. While Naruto's Sage chakra is certainly potent, Juubito is aware that it hurts him and as shown the most versatility in using the Juubi power of anyone that's had it.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
None of that was possible for Naruto to do by himself. In fact Madara actually "killed" him and he's far less powerful than Kaguya.

As for this thread, I'm in favor of Juubito on this one. While Naruto's Sage chakra is certainly potent, Juubito is aware that it hurts him and as shown the most versatility in using the Juubi power of anyone that's had it.

Uh, Naruto ripped her arm off by himself. He was even in the field of her gravity. Madara did "kill" him, but that was normal biju mode Naruto. Their is a ridiculous difference between normal Biju mode Naruto who was almost killed by normal Madara, and Asura Naruto, who in base mode fought on par with Jyuubidara.

thumb up

wakkawakkawakka
Naruto was only able to do that because he had help. Kaguya kept them on the defensive for most of the fight and Naruto wasn't doing anything close to fighting evenly with Kaguya when Sasuke was stranded in another dimension.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Blah, blah, blah-blah, blah. Naruto had help.

No. He didn't.

Naruto wasn't getting hurt at all by Kaguya. In fact, all she accomplished at that point was looking dumb by failing to a jutsu that Ebisu was able to overcome, and wasting a ton of chakra.

Naruto, when being serious, straight up warped out of her gravity field, and ripped her damn arm off.

thumb up

wakkawakkawakka
So...just going to ignore the fact that he didn't beat Kaguya on his own and needed Sasuke, Obito, and Kakashi's help to get her sealed? Okay then.

SSJGGogeta
1. Sasuke was only needed because he had the dark half of Hagaromo's abiliities. It took Hagaromo and his brother because of this.

2. Kakashi did help, but mostly only towards Sakura.

3. Sasuke still didn't do much against her physically.

Rikudo sennin
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
LOL, he clearly is.

He only had the help of two people that mattered, and one of them only got that strong after Obito died(Kakashi, when he became the strongest in the series for a few chapters).

He was able to warp out of her gravity pull and rip her phucking arm off, AFTER fighting the ten tails, Jyuubito, Jyuubidara, AND her for a while. That clearly proves him to be AT LEAST her equal.

It's not really PIS or CIS at this point. It's happened too often to be chalked as anything other than luck. But it's still a non-factor, for all intents and purposes.

LOL

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/687/7
they weren't even in the gravity dimension anymore when he did that

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/687/3
And her chakra was really low at the time so her durability was a lot lower

It is PIS/CIS cuz there were so many inconsistencies and her abilities were forgotten. Her ability to absorb all attacks was forgotten and she didn't send them immediately to her most dangerous dimensions like the gravity and acid world.

After her upgrade the only thing he had going for him in speed was surpassed by Kaguya as well.

There were many times Naruto would have been dead without help as well.

Rikudo sennin
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No. He didn't.

Naruto wasn't getting hurt at all by Kaguya. In fact, all she accomplished at that point was looking dumb by failing to a jutsu that Ebisu was able to overcome, and wasting a ton of chakra.

Naruto, when being serious, straight up warped out of her gravity field, and ripped her damn arm off.

thumb up

Naruto was almost killed by Kaguya a few times before being saved. And that is with help and PIS/CIS.

Wrong lol.

yungz22
Cant believe hes actually trying to debate the fact that naruto needed help its as clear as day anybody who disagrees has to be trolling

BloodRain
Wasn't she still holding back until the very end for the fact that she wanted to take their chakra before obliterating them?

AuraAngel
Yep.

Naruto also never tanked her giant Goudama. Nor does he warp like Sasuke since he very clearly moves.

yungz22
ashura path didnt even beat sage madara on his own

NewGuy01
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Juubito unquestionably dwarfs current Naruto in terms of power output,

Are we sure? Naruto's Truth Ball Rasenshuriken are super powerful, and he can throw several at once.



Besides his less creative use of them, how are Natto's inferior?



Naruto's chakra claws were almost on par with Kaguya's 80 Gods, which could effortlessly rip apart Perfect Susano'o.



Yep. He has Magnet Release, Lava Release, Steam Release, and more.



thumb up



Juubito himself demonstrated that Truth Balls are capable of shielding from it.



True... Maybe.

Juubito might win simply because he wields the "full" power of the Sage whereas Naruto only wields half.

AuraAngel
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Are we sure? Naruto's Truth Ball Rasenshuriken are super powerful, and he can throw several at once.


They are faster certainly. But they aren't stronger. The Bijuudamasengan are very clearly charged up by Kurama and his Bijuudama are significantly smaller than the Juubi's, which is what Obito logically uses.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
Besides his less creative use of them, how are Natto's inferior?

Better showings simply. 4 Juubidama blew up in his face and his shield didn't even so much as crack.

While Naruto's kinda suck if I'm being brutally honest. The staffs he made were stopped by Sage lightning and three of them destroyed by imperfect Susano'o arrows. Sure they probably had senjutsu of some kind in them but so did these attacks and Obito basically laughed them off.



Originally posted by NewGuy01
Naruto's chakra claws were almost on par with Kaguya's 80 Gods, which could effortlessly rip apart Perfect Susano'o.

Neat. Obito's effortlessly ripped apart the Hokage Barrier, something that could withstand Bijuudama from the Juubi itself. The same Bijuudama that destroyed Madara's Perfect Susano'o.



Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yep. He has Magnet Release, Lava Release, Steam Release, and more.

Yeah a good way of looking at this thread is which is stronger: all the Bijuu vs the Juubi.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Juubito himself demonstrated that Truth Balls are capable of shielding from it.

Yeah Obito did. Naruto not so much. He never uses them that way and he really should have. I'm assuming they're not as strong.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
True... Maybe.

Juubito might win simply because he wields the "full" power of the Sage whereas Naruto only wields half.

Eh. It's so weird how Kishi set it up because Juubito simply is more impressive than Juubidara. Hell, base Madara is more impressive than Juubidara. Juubidara was man handled by Guy, cut in half by Sasuke, and got stabbed twice from Obito/Zetsu.

NewGuy01
Not really. Juubidara seems noticeably faster/stronger, has invinci-Limbo, is much more stable, and can use the Six Paths extremely effectively.

AuraAngel
Base Madara beat all of the Bijuu, killed Naruto and Sasuke, and then effortlessly took control of the Juubi.

Juubidara was wrecked by Guy, Base Naruto, and Sasuke(who wasn't using Susano'o). He needed his second Rinnegan to contend and even then he found it easier to run away and use the IS. He then got stabbed by Zetsu and Obito when Base Madara was dancing around Tobirama.

Demonic Phoenix
Context be damned.
Also, what is IS? I know what you're referring to, but what does it stand for?


That said, Madara definitely came off as far more formidable prior to becoming a Juubi Jinchuurikii.

AuraAngel
Infinite Sleepiness.

Demonic Phoenix
laughing out loud

I salute you.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Base Madara beat all of the Bijuu, killed Naruto and Sasuke, and then effortlessly took control of the Juubi.

Juubidara was wrecked by Guy, Base Naruto, and Sasuke(who wasn't using Susano'o). He needed his second Rinnegan to contend and even then he found it easier to run away and use the IS. He then got stabbed by Zetsu and Obito when Base Madara was dancing around Tobirama.
In Juubidara's defense Naruto was never able to actually take out a Limbo clone w/o help. Even when Naruto tried to match them, Sasuke comments that the Limbo clones were still hanging out while It was being cast. Gai would've probably been killed by goudama if it weren't for Kakashi and friends too.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by AuraAngel
They are faster certainly. But they aren't stronger. The Bijuudamasengan are very clearly charged up by Kurama and his Bijuudama are significantly smaller than the Juubi's, which is what Obito logically uses.

Terrible logic, considering how the Truth Ball Shurikens absolutely dwarf Kurama's Biju Balls.



I don't see why it would be any different in Naruto's case.



I actually thought he was using the rod to stop the lightning, not the other way around.



I always took that to mean that Naruto could no longer sustain them, not that they couldn't handle Susano'o Arrows. After all, he was losing Hagoromo's powers; he could only summon three of them to begin with.



Kaguya's Eighty Gods is stated to have the greatest attack power of any technique in the series in the 4th databook apparently though.

And rightfully so, really. The shockwaves from the blows colliding with Naruto's were enough to form caves the size of cathedrals, and she could fire 80 of them off in rapid succession. Paired with the Byakugan, Perfect Susano'o is complete child's play before it.



Fair enough, but they're still far slower.



I'm thinking it's more "Naruto doesn't know how to use these things".



I don't think so. His use of Truth Balls is far superior, granted, but his actual abilities are inferior in every facet. Speed, strength, taijutsu skill, ninjutsu variety, ninjutsu power, Truth Ball number, Rinnegan techs, etc. etc.

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
In Juubidara's defense Naruto was never able to actually take out a Limbo clone w/o help. Even when Naruto tried to match them, Sasuke comments that the Limbo clones were still hanging out while It was being cast. Gai would've probably been killed by goudama if it weren't for Kakashi and friends too.

Lots of stuff in this thread that's being used without context.

NewGuy01
All in all I do agree that Juubito is more "powerful" than Naruto; it's pretty obvious given that he is the Juubi Jin, possesses the power of the Sage, and has more Truth Spheres.

That being said, I want to side Naruto for the fight. While it's arguable whether or not he's faster/stronger than Juubito, he possesses the superior combat techniques; Shadow Clones, Bijudama Rasenshuriken, and the Biju's Kekei Genkai techniques are better than anything Juubito can put out IMO.

That being said, Hokage!Naruto obviously loses soundly.

NewGuy01
Bump; according to the 4th databook, Naruto's physical & sensory abilities are equal or greater than Madara's--which also mean they're greater than Obito's.

Considering how Obito doesn't really use his Rinnegan, we can assume that this is a SPSM vs SPSM battle. Obito has the advantages of stronger chakra, regeneration, and far greater mastery of the TSB's. Naruto has the advantages of superior physicals, greater jutsu variety, and the ability to create shadow clones. With that in mind, who wins?

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