Warhammer 40k vs. Marvel Universe

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Sixth_Winged
All known factions and entities of the warhammer 40k universe united vs. All factions and entities in Marvel 616( all alien empires and all 616 earth forces both bad and good united).

Everyone is allowed to battle save absolute omnipotents, abstract concepts and artifacts likewise eg. the one above all and the Hotu.

1 year prep for both sides

StealthRanger
I... just... what....

Wei Phoenix
If you're allowing all entities from Marvel, including space then TOAA ends it with a thought.

Sixth_Winged
Specified Absoute omnipotent beings are not allowed

Eg. Toaa, hotu

pym-ftw
The Kree alone are enough.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Specified Absoute omnipotent beings are not allowed

Eg. Toaa, hotu

Galactus then?

NemeBro
Warhammer 40,000 is a setting centered on a single galaxy.

There are numerous beings in Marvel who could destroy the entire setting (Only the Warp might survive, but not for long) with a single attack.

RaventheOnly
There are a lot of gods of creation, sin and destruction in WH. Can you even kill Gods in a sense? O.o

dika123
i hate curbstomp thread..

Utrigita
Originally posted by NemeBro
Warhammer 40,000 is a setting centered on a single galaxy.

There are numerous beings in Marvel who could destroy the entire setting (Only the Warp might survive, but not for long) with a single attack.

thumb up

Same when guys are pitting Star Wars against Marvel or DC.

RaventheOnly
Except for the OP characters like singular planet busters the vast majority of the normal super heroes would not really stand up to the billions of troops in power armor and monster sized forces in WH. There are a lot of pysker capable forces as well as conventional tough ass infantry forces. The Tyrannyds and Necrons are some serious mofos to. Numbers wise I don't know how ya would pit them as a chance if it were not for hax characters.

NemeBro
Marvel technology is also much better than 40k. Even the Necrons.

FTL technology that can let you travel to any galaxy in the universe in a short time isn't so rare.

RaventheOnly
I honestly don't know a lot about Marvel so I wont argue technology. stick out tongue

I can only describe a little of WH which is portrayed in a time where they advanced so far and so fast that they forgot how to develop the technology and much of the tech itself is lost. There are a lot of crazy things they talk about. I am pretty sure the Imperium can fold space which is superior to FTL travel.

I just know there is a crap ton of soldiers who regularly play on the superhuman level with God powers intervening constantly in the form of the Emperors miracles and Chaos god stuff. The Tau and Tyrannyds number almost in the trillions in terms of numbers of troops

NemeBro
The Imperium is capable of very unreliable FTL travel localized in a single galaxy.

There are many Marvel characters who could force themselves through Terra's defenses and kill the God Emperor. Thor could, for a mainstream example.

RaventheOnly
Their stuff does require beacons and junk, yeah.

True. The strength of Marvel I can see as singularly winning in one on one fights. I just see the billions of troops now pissed off you killed their Emperor going on a rampage. stick out tongue The emperor is also has some serious psychic/telekinetic power to reach across the galaxy and popping peoples heads though he is stuck in a tomb and very vulnerable.

Lek Kuen
well as it's all the aliens too so Marvel isn't exactly small. You're in the hundred billions just counting the main races

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Their stuff does require beacons and junk, yeah.

True. The strength of Marvel I can see as singularly winning in one on one fights. I just see the billions of troops now pissed off you killed their Emperor going on a rampage. stick out tongue The emperor is also has some serious psychic/telekinetic power to reach across the galaxy and popping peoples heads though he is stuck in a tomb and very vulnerable.

Can those billions of troops kill the emperor if they wanted?

NemeBro
In the Emperor's current condition? Absolutely, lol.

Wei Phoenix
Is that the same condition that lets him do things across galaxies? I'm only a fanboy for Necrons so I don't know much about 40k.

NemeBro
He is capable of bestowing his blessing upon the Sisters of Battle but physically the Emperor is a corpse on the world's largest iron lung. It would be as simple as pulling the plug.

pym-ftw
Originally posted by pym-ftw
The Kree alone are enough. so can we all agree on this? The Kree have a Multi Galactic Armada and casual planet busting bombs as standard equipment on these ships.

They also have a Galaxy wide telepath.

RaventheOnly
The Tyrannyds and Chaos eat galaxies >.> The Imperium has similar planet buster weapons. smile

Chaos also has the ability to turn people to their side on a serious macro scale.

pym-ftw
The Kree also has Ronan who is capable of some crazy stuff like matter manipulation and is easily able to lift 100 tons.

RaventheOnly
If you ever played Star Craft, Tyrannyds are what the Zerg are based on and the Tyrannyds would mop the floor with the Zerg in terms of how fast and completely they destroy environments. They suck solar systems dry of all nutrients and evolve to face any foe. They kill one of their enemy and incorporate them and the whole species now has the gene code to clone/replicate that ability endlessly evolving it. There are serious levels of telekinetic/telepathic powers through out WH from pretty much every faction. A single person capable of doing feats like that against armies of foes numbering in the billions/trillions that combined that can do beyond that and more.

Lek Kuen
And Marvel has all of those powers and more.

This isn't just Earth's super heroes, you are talking a Universe that is actually much bigger.

Wei Phoenix
Hell they'd probably win if this was just Marvel Earth but the entire universe, there are people who could wipe out the entire billions and trillions of armies with just a gesture.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Hell they'd probably win if this was just Marvel Earth but the entire universe, there are people who could wipe out the entire billions and trillions of armies with just a gesture.

Case in point:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/brb_03_18.jpg

I'm not even going into the high heralds, Franklin Richards, Doctor the broken Doom, Multiple gods on various planes of reality not to mention a ton of abstracts. WH 40k is ****ed.

marvelmadness13
One year of prep time? Reed Richards solos.

Based
Originally posted by pym-ftw
so can we all agree on this? The Kree have a Multi Galactic Armada and casual planet busting bombs as standard equipment on these ships.


Do you know what Warhammer is?

Revanchiste
The problem is chaos.... EVen the super god being like of the DC or Marvel universe cannot win against the Dark gods.... They have to go in the warp to kill them.. Where Tzeentch rule as an omnipotent emperor.... Not to mention he always won before the battle begin....

Well I know than Star war can win in certain condition against warhammer 40 000 (All thank to Darth Revan mostly...)

Even Superman prime could have problem to kill someone like Tzeetch...

They kill the god emperor. Who can basicaly summon I don't an unlimited number of ship in 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000001 second? This kind of stuff omnipotent being.......
And Warhammer 40 000 galaxy is the biggest galaxy in the history of scien-fi.... So...10% unverse size... Humhum... Well that's pretty big actually fairly big....

Revanchiste
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
All known factions and entities of the warhammer 40k universe united vs. All factions and entities in Marvel 616( all alien empires and all 616 earth forces both bad and good united).

Everyone is allowed to battle save absolute omnipotents, abstract concepts and artifacts likewise eg. the one above all and the Hotu.

1 year prep for both sides
1 years of prep for Tzeentch.. O.K done warhammer 40 000 win.

Wei Phoenix
That guy is omnipotent in his own dimension? TOAA is omnipotent wherever he goes so he should be the stronger one.

Revanchiste
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
That guy is omnipotent in his own dimension? TOAA is omnipotent wherever he goes so he should be the stronger one.

The emperor of Mankind too... And he died horribly....
Like horus burn in an protogennic sopace dimension relate dto chaos blablabla forever..

Emperor of man kind is dead but still live as a god in the warp slave of his own love for Mankind.....
He watch his childrens dying slowly without be able to make the matter progress.
He just protect them in teh warp.. He cannot give up he don't have enough will power left to do so... He refuse to se what he have created dying... But ACtualy it is dying but slowly...

Go in the warp And Tzeentch.... Will just eat their power XD.
He will just stole rape their own powers.....

You just anihilate the entire universe.. Giving to chaos... THE ABSOLUTE POWER TO RAPE THE UNIVERSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No matter how strong he is Tzeentch always win before any engagement....

Even primarch clone of the emperor of Mankind cannot resist chaos influence.. You have to possess mental defenses as strong as Darth Revan one....


Seriously chaos corrupt everythings !!!!!!!! It's a 9D dimension and 666D dimension in tzeentch domain...

Not to mention Tzeentch is also wining in multiple alternative realities........

The Maze of Tzeentch, also known as the Crystal Labyrinth, is Tzeentch's realm within the Warp. This maze is woven from the raw fabric of magic, threaded upon deceit and conspiracy. Of all the landscapes of the Warp, this domain is by far the most bizarre and incomprehensible, for its crystalline structures force travelers to view all nine dimensions simultaneously. This effect not only distorts the senses of any who intrude, but will also pulls apart their purpose and aspirations and turns them to insanity and despair. Unlike the realms of the other Gods of Chaos, it is not defended by Daemonic warriors, allowing instead for any intruder to become inevitably lost within its confines.

Interchanging, shifting avenues made of pure crystals of every colour crisscross Tzeentch's realm. Hidden pathways built from lies and schemes lead out from the maze and infiltrate the dominions of other gods, binding together the fractious Realms of Chaos. The maze itself has no daemonic defenders. Its own illusory passages are enough of a barrier to any intruder not possessed of the strongest mind imaginable. Its glittering corridors reflect not only light but also hope, misery, dreams and nightmares. The labyrinth does not merely reflect but also distorts, pulling apart hope and purpose turning them into insanity and despair. Driven by Tzeentch's unconscious schemes, the labyrinth constantly moves and rearranges. Those lost within the maze's reaches will wander for eternity with their minds shattered, their dreams broken upon the wheel of their own failed ambition.

At the centre of the maze, hidden from those who have not the insane insight to find it, stands the Impossible Fortress. The architecture of the bastion is constantly replaced by new and ever more maddening spires, gates and walls. doors and other entrance points yawn open like starving mouths, before clamping for eternity moments later, barring all access. Within the Fortress time and space does not exist at all and gravity shifts and changes, or disappears all together. Lights of every colour, some even unknown in the real universe, springs from the shifting walls. For mortals, who are so locked in their physical ways, the fortress is impenetrable. Men are driven insane, while their bodies might implode or be pulled apart by the forces unleashed by Tzeentch's passing thoughts. Even immortal daemons cannot easily endure the twisted horror of the Impossible Fortress and only the Lords of Change can safely navigate its corridors, and tread the secret paths that lead to the inner sanctum of the fortress, the Hidden Library, where Tzeentch, the puppet master himself resides, eternally plotting.

Not to mention Tzeentch is also wining in multiple alternative realities........

Revanchiste
If you defeat Tzeentch he came back from an other dimension to wreck your face...... So...

And you don't realize how hudge the chaos is :

The Garden of Nurgle is Nurgle's realm within the Warp. This unwholesome realm is home to every pox and affliction imaginable and is alive with the stench of rot. This 'garden' is not a barren wasteland, but rather a macabre paradise of death and pestilence. A thick sheet of buzzing swarms of black, furry flies litter the sky, and twisted, rotten boughs entangled with grasping vines cover the mouldering ground, beneath an insect-ravaged canopy of leaves. Defiled fungi both plain and extraordinary break through the leaf-strewn mulch of the forest floor, puffing out vile clouds of spores. Muddy rivers slither across the bloated landscape. Nurgle's Mansion of rotted timbers and broken walls resides at the heart of the garden; decrepit and ancient, yet eternally strong at its foundations. It is within these tumbling walls that Nurgle toils at his cauldron, a receptacle vast enough to contain all the oceans of the worlds of the galaxy.

Nurgle keeps his companion Isha trapped in a cage in the garden of Nurgle, in the corner of a room where he keeps the cauldron in which he creates all of his plagues. Being a goddess of healing, Isha can cure herself of any of Nurgle's diseases. Nurgle takes advantage of this by force-feeding her his latest creation and sees how long it takes the goddess to overcome its effects. If he is pleased, he releases it upon some unsuspecting world, if not, he starts over, working at his cauldron until he has something new to give to his 'companion'. Whilst he is busy working though, Isha takes advantage of his distraction to instruct mortals on how to rid themselves of Nurgle's poxes.

When Nurgle's power waxes, the Garden blooms, encroaching on the lands of the other Chaos Gods. Nurgle's enemies would fight back, and the Plaguebearers would take up arms to defend it. Although the Garden will recede again, it would still have fed deeply on the essence of those who have fallen in such wars, and will lie in gestate peace until it is ready to bloom again.


It is within these tumbling walls that Nurgle toils at his cauldron, a receptacle vast enough to contain all the oceans of the worlds of the galaxy.
It is within these tumbling walls that Nurgle toils at his cauldron, a receptacle vast enough to contain all the oceans of the worlds of the galaxy.
It is within these tumbling walls that Nurgle toils at his cauldron, a receptacle vast enough to contain all the oceans of the worlds of the galaxy.

Revanchiste
After reacherch chaos is the doom of evrythings.....

"Indeed, the very process of construction and creation foreshadow destruction and decay. The palace of today is tomorrow's ruin, the maiden of the morning is the crone of the night, and the hope of a moment is but the foundation stone of everlasting regret."

Because the youngest chaos was able to kill an all bunch of total omnipotent gods..... Eeeer humhum....
In how many dimension are Marvel or DC super being character exist?
Because Tzeentch rule in every alertantives realities....

No to mentiopn :
The Dark Eldar live in Commorragh, a city located within the labyrinth of the Webway, with hidden Webway gates leading to points all across the the Galaxy, allowing them to emerge and strike from seemingly nowhere and vanish again before any significant resistance can be mobilised.

NemeBro
The Emperor alone is more powerful than the Chaos Gods. Or was, at any rate.

The Chaos Gods would be a fun snack for Galactus.

Utrigita
Originally posted by NemeBro
The Emperor alone is more powerful than the Chaos Gods. Or was, at any rate.

The Chaos Gods would be a fun snack for Galactus.

thumb up

Revanchiste
Originally posted by NemeBro
The Emperor alone is more powerful than the Chaos Gods. Or was, at any rate.

The Chaos Gods would be a fun snack for Galactus.

But no matter his power he just get defeated....

There is having power and be asble to use them....

Not to mention than Tzeentch is cuted from space and time.. He is unreachable.. But the reverse is not true....

There is also the god eldar... The god of death.. Who still in gestation in the warp....

Utrigita
Originally posted by Revanchiste
There is having power and be able to use them....

How fortunate then that Galactus doesn't suffer from any lack of knowledge of how to properly utilize his power. Neither does, Eternity, Infinity, Death, Oblivion, The Celestials, Master Order and Lord Chaos, Franklin Richards, Master Hate, Mistress Love, The Phoenix and so freaking on. Kubik can warp the entire universe of the Warhammer 40k into a ball in his hand and crush it.

Revanchiste
Well Tzeetch is the superior version...

The only one who could penerate Tzeench's impossible forteress, where authorised to enter... Unless you have someone like a fusion between 10 superman prime that can go out of the universe....

How goo he is at mind concelement? If cannot keep is future cloud from tzeentch he is just dead....

The problem is Tzeentch who is not restricted by the rule of the universe.... He live cut from space and time....
He cannot be crushed..... And he control multiple universe parrallelle world and infinities of alternatives realities...

And when I said than he just dead that's because tzeench can change the rule of the engagement.. Including the power of his own ennemies.. When in his world....

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t563090.html
It's nota a matter of winning or not Tzeench always win.. It's about probabilities to win...
If Tzeentch win in a single dimension.. He win in all the others... That's cheap...
He just ctrl c +v the dimension where he win.....

If there is dimension wher he loose he just delete them.... If Galactus can win at 100% They just never encounter....

The cheapness of Tzeentch puputerie putassière. Bibitchery bitc* 100% cheap.
He just never looses. He never begin a fight or enganement if he hasn't already won...

Revanchiste
Name:Tzeentch

Origin: Warhammer - 40K

Classifiaction: Chaos God of Change, Evolution, Intrigue and Sorcery, he who weaves the threads

Powers & Abilities: Intangibility, immortality, telepathy, telekenisis, possession, reality warping, cosmic awareness, soul manipulation, time manipulation, mindrape, casualty manipulation

Tier: At least 3-C, possibly 2-C | 1-C within the warp.

Destructive Capacity: At least galaxy+, said to be universal | Complex Multiversal within the warp. (A 9-dimensional entity.)

Durability: Galaxy+, possibly universal | Complex Multiversal within the warp.

Speed: Omnipresent in the warp

Range: Complex Multiversal (the Warp extends to at least a million universes)

Intelligence: Master of countless conspiracies throughout the galaxy (and likely beyond)

Weakness: Harder for him to manifest his full power outside the Warp

> 1-C: Nigh-Omnipotent level : Characters who can create/destroy more than billion universes and reach to a level of megaverse/metaverse (The metaverse contains multiple multiverses, including pocket universes and parallel universes). Those who could easily defeat 2-A characters are also counted as nigh-omnipotents. They are usually the second strongest within an omniverse, only inferior to a true omnipotent. (E.g. The Living Tribunal, Pre-Retcon Beyonder, Mister Mxyzptlk, etc.)


Chaos Gods must be at 1-C level. They showed metaversal/megaversal feats (high dimensional feats):

Revanchiste

Revanchiste
The one above all is just neutral as hell XD. And Tzeentch is permantly fighting that guy... But this is a fight for eternity where Tzeench will always evolve. Tzeench is slowly very slowly winning...... May pehaprs galactus rebon 987131324895 times before the end....

Utrigita
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Well Tzeetch is the superior version...

The only one who could penerate Tzeench's impossible forteress, where authorised to enter... Unless you have someone like a fusion between 10 superman prime that can go out of the universe....

How goo he is at mind concelement? If cannot keep is future cloud from tzeentch he is just dead....

The problem is Tzeentch who is not restricted by the rule of the universe.... He live cut from space and time....
He cannot be crushed..... And he control multiple universe parrallelle world and infinities of alternatives realities...

And when I said than he just dead that's because tzeench can change the rule of the engagement.. Including the power of his own ennemies.. When in his world....

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t563090.html
It's nota a matter of winning or not Tzeench always win.. It's about probabilities to win...
If Tzeentch win in a single dimension.. He win in all the others... That's cheap...
He just ctrl c +v the dimension where he win.....

If there is dimension wher he loose he just delete them.... If Galactus can win at 100% They just never encounter....

The cheapness of Tzeentch puputerie putassière. Bibitchery bitc* 100% cheap.
He just never looses. He never begin a fight or enganement if he hasn't already won...

In comparison to what?

I have a race of Celestials, each Celestial makes 10 superman prime look like a candle next to a supernova.

Galactus is just as capable as perceiving the future as any other Abstract level character in marvel.

Neither could the Beyonder, yet that doesn't really matter when the entire universe he is in, is warped into a sphere.

Against certain beings, beings that are below his own level of power. Beings like the Celestials who created the multiverse by shattering a larger universe with physical stregnth, and is just a aspect of Eternity should do just fine.

He doesn't really get the choice here, he is forced (as per the op) into a fight with the Marvel Universe, Tzeeth are welcome to leave the field of battle (which would be wise, all things considered) he will still lose.

Revanchiste
On how many dimension....?

The problem is that the warp is.... Not a part of the Multiverse. The universe is a part of the warp... A buble of tranquility...

Marvel have no character who hold power beyond 1-C or 0 that is not neutral.....
Tzeench is neer metaverse level XD. ANd he is not neutral at all...
"Those who could easily defeat multiverselevel, characters are also counted as nigh-omnipotents."
Including Galactus.

The warp is the multi/omniverse(or is connected to them)

"The forms the live-things called Chaos, in their limited little ways of perceiving the omni-verse, swarmed and thrived in this infinite ocean of mind and emotion. The daemon moved with Stele. Waiting, waiting and watching for the moment when the thrashing and chattering of the quarry was at its peak. Only then would it strike, lapping up the absolute perfection of its fear, sinking in rending teeth, tearing it to soul- shreds."
Pg.106 Deus Sanguinius

“A miss indicates that the missile has left Warpspace at the wrong point – and this could be anywhere in any of the million universes.”
pg.37 Adeptus Titanicus

Thoughts can destroy or create thousands of universes in the warp

"Here in the Great Ocean, he could be whatever he wanted to be; nothing was forbidden and anything was possible.
Worlds flashed past him as he hurtled through the swelling tides of colour, light and dimensions without name. The roiling chaos of the aether was a playground for titanic forces, where entire universes could be created and destroyed with a random thought. How many trillions of potential lives were birthed and snuffed out just by thinking such things?"
Pg.712 A Thousand Sons


Chaos is older than time

All around him, he could hear the sounds of the future, of warfare and death. The thought that he shared the guilt of the destruction of the Emperor’s dream was the greatest shame and sorrow he had ever known.
An end to it all would be a blessed relief.
‘Oblivion,’ he whispered as he closed his eyes. ‘Do it. End me.’
The barriers in Fulgrim’s mind dropped and he felt the elation of a creature older than time as it poured into the void in his soul. No sooner had its touch claimed his flesh for its own than he knew he had made the worst mistake of his life.
Fulgrim screamed as he fought to keep it out, but it was already too late.
His consciousness was crushed into the dark, unused corners of his mind, forever to be a mute witness to the havoc wrought by his body’s new master.
One moment Fulgrim was a primarch, one of the Emperor’s Children, the next he was a thing of Chaos."
Pg.757 Fulgrim

"A terrible, ageless scream of frustration filled the chamber, echoing throughout all the realms of existence simultaneously as a creature older than time was thwarted in its ambitions."
Pg.619 Descent of Angels

"All I can tell you is that the warp is beyond the comprehension of you or I, and things exist in its fathomless depths that are older than time as we know it.’"
Pg.359 Battle For the Abyss


Schrodinger's Slaanesh/Chaos

That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the material universe. In the Warp, things are different, for the Immaterium is not bound by linear time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. As his rival gods reckon it, Slannesh has always existed in the Warp, and yet has never existed at all
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 6th Edition pg. 16

That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the real universe; in the Warp, things are different. The Realm of Chaos has no true time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cuase then effect. In essence, Slaanesh has always exsted in the Warp, and yet had never existed.
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition, pg.7

The sheer mind-boggling impossibiliry of the Warp defies
explanation, and those who attempt to delve further into
understanding its ways inevitably slip into madness. Of the
little that is known is that Warp space does not conform to the
laws of physics as we know them.
-Warhamer 40k 6th Edition Rulebook, pg. 144

It is a hurning ocean of chaos, raw emotion and madness given form, where the laws of physics, time and nature are meaningless concepts and nothing is as it seems.
-Warhammer 40k 4th Edition Rulebook pg. 122

In warp space there is no time, no distances, only a constantly flowing stream of immaterium.
-Battle Fleet Gothic Rulebook, pg. 85

It is a roiling, howling maelstorm of force and energy, utterly unpredictable and not subject to the rational laws and linear flow of time in the way that physical reality is.
-Horus Heresy Book 1: Betrayal, pg. 16

Beyond the boundaries of physical space, unrestricted by time or casuality, there is a dimension utterly incomprehensible to mortal minds.
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 6th Edition pg. 6

Beyond the boundaries of physical space, unrestricted by time or casuality, there is a dimension utterly incomprehensible to mortal minds.
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 4

Timeless and ever-shifting, this psychic visionscape is known as the Realm of Chaos
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 6

The Realm of Chaos, also known as the Warp, the Immaterium or Warpspace, is a dimension parallel to our own, a universe devoid of matter and life, without laws of time and space.

--Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 6

The Empy holding reality against Chaos consuming the universe throughout space time.

"His immense psychic powers envelop and protect Mankind across the entire galaxy. His consciousness wanders through Warp space, warring against the Daemons that inhabit it, keeping closed the doors between this world and the next.

If the Emperor fails then the Daemons of Chaos will flood into the galaxy. Every living human will become a gateway for the destruction of Mankind and the stuff of Warp space will submerge the galaxy. There will be no physical matter. No space. No time. Only Chaos."
-Warhammer 40k 5th Edition rulebook, pg.101

Physically fettered, chained atop mountainous banks of
machinery, the Emperor's mind stretches out through space
and time - a light in a vast gulf of blackness.
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition Rulebook, pg.134

Outwardly, the Emperor is but a desiccated corpse, kept alive partly by the cyclopean, mystical machine of gold wrought by his own hand and partly by a will so powerful that it transcends the bounds of the blackened, shrivelled husk of his body. Physically fettered, chained atop mountainous banks of machinery, the Emperor’s mind stretches out through space and time – a light in a vast gulf of blackness. Should that spark of life ever be extinguished – should the Throne fail in its mysterious purpose – then Mankind would surely be lost.
-Warhammer 40k 7th Edition Rulebook

"Today, as for every day since that battle, the Emperor lives only by the immeasurable force of his supreme will. The stasis fields and psi-fusion reactors of the machine known as the Golden Throne preserve his broken and decayed body; his great mind endures inside a rotting carcass, kept alive by the mysteries of ancient technology. His immense psychic Powers reach out from the Golden Throne, enveloping and protecting Mankind across the enemy-strewn galaxy, a beacon of light in the malevolent darkness.

If the Emperor fails, then none will be able to stop the influx of the dark powers; ravenous and all-consurning Daemons will flood into the galaxy. Every living human will become a gateway for the destruction of Mankind. Reality as it is known will be subsumed by the stuff of Warp space - a realm of nightmares and cruel insanity where all life will end. There will be no physical matter. No space. No time. Only Chaos."
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg.137

"Daemons are destruction and anarchy incarnate and they lust after the flesh, blood and very souls of living creatures. They want only to destroy, to drag any living essence they can capture back to their shadowy realm, to obliterate the material universe and engulf it within Warp space."
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg. 144

Daemons are destruction and anarchy incarnate and they lust after the flesh, blood and very souls of living creatures. They want only to destroy, to drag any living essence they can capture back to their shadowy realm, to obliterate the material universe and engulf it within Warp space.
-Warhammer 40k 7th Edition rulebook

"They are never sated. The abominations from the Warp will not rest untii they have consumed not just Mankind, but the universe as well. All will be ruin; all will be Chaos."
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg. 234

Utrigita
Originally posted by Revanchiste
On how many dimension....?

The problem is that the warp is.... Not a part of the Multiverse. The universe is a part of the warp... A buble of tranquility...

Marvel have no character who hold power beyond 1-C or 0 that is not neutral.....
Tzeench is neer metaverse level XD. ANd he is not neutral at all...
"Those who could easily defeat multiverselevel, characters are also counted as nigh-omnipotents."
Including Galactus.

The warp is the multi/omniverse(or is connected to them)

"The forms the live-things called Chaos, in their limited little ways of perceiving the omni-verse, swarmed and thrived in this infinite ocean of mind and emotion. The daemon moved with Stele. Waiting, waiting and watching for the moment when the thrashing and chattering of the quarry was at its peak. Only then would it strike, lapping up the absolute perfection of its fear, sinking in rending teeth, tearing it to soul- shreds."
Pg.106 Deus Sanguinius

“A miss indicates that the missile has left Warpspace at the wrong point – and this could be anywhere in any of the million universes.”
pg.37 Adeptus Titanicus

Thoughts can destroy or create thousands of universes in the warp

"Here in the Great Ocean, he could be whatever he wanted to be; nothing was forbidden and anything was possible.
Worlds flashed past him as he hurtled through the swelling tides of colour, light and dimensions without name. The roiling chaos of the aether was a playground for titanic forces, where entire universes could be created and destroyed with a random thought. How many trillions of potential lives were birthed and snuffed out just by thinking such things?"
Pg.712 A Thousand Sons


Chaos is older than time

All around him, he could hear the sounds of the future, of warfare and death. The thought that he shared the guilt of the destruction of the Emperor’s dream was the greatest shame and sorrow he had ever known.
An end to it all would be a blessed relief.
‘Oblivion,’ he whispered as he closed his eyes. ‘Do it. End me.’
The barriers in Fulgrim’s mind dropped and he felt the elation of a creature older than time as it poured into the void in his soul. No sooner had its touch claimed his flesh for its own than he knew he had made the worst mistake of his life.
Fulgrim screamed as he fought to keep it out, but it was already too late.
His consciousness was crushed into the dark, unused corners of his mind, forever to be a mute witness to the havoc wrought by his body’s new master.
One moment Fulgrim was a primarch, one of the Emperor’s Children, the next he was a thing of Chaos."
Pg.757 Fulgrim

"A terrible, ageless scream of frustration filled the chamber, echoing throughout all the realms of existence simultaneously as a creature older than time was thwarted in its ambitions."
Pg.619 Descent of Angels

"All I can tell you is that the warp is beyond the comprehension of you or I, and things exist in its fathomless depths that are older than time as we know it.’"
Pg.359 Battle For the Abyss


Schrodinger's Slaanesh/Chaos

That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the material universe. In the Warp, things are different, for the Immaterium is not bound by linear time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. As his rival gods reckon it, Slannesh has always existed in the Warp, and yet has never existed at all
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 6th Edition pg. 16

That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the real universe; in the Warp, things are different. The Realm of Chaos has no true time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cuase then effect. In essence, Slaanesh has always exsted in the Warp, and yet had never existed.
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition, pg.7

The sheer mind-boggling impossibiliry of the Warp defies
explanation, and those who attempt to delve further into
understanding its ways inevitably slip into madness. Of the
little that is known is that Warp space does not conform to the
laws of physics as we know them.
-Warhamer 40k 6th Edition Rulebook, pg. 144

It is a hurning ocean of chaos, raw emotion and madness given form, where the laws of physics, time and nature are meaningless concepts and nothing is as it seems.
-Warhammer 40k 4th Edition Rulebook pg. 122

In warp space there is no time, no distances, only a constantly flowing stream of immaterium.
-Battle Fleet Gothic Rulebook, pg. 85

It is a roiling, howling maelstorm of force and energy, utterly unpredictable and not subject to the rational laws and linear flow of time in the way that physical reality is.
-Horus Heresy Book 1: Betrayal, pg. 16

Beyond the boundaries of physical space, unrestricted by time or casuality, there is a dimension utterly incomprehensible to mortal minds.
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 6th Edition pg. 6

Beyond the boundaries of physical space, unrestricted by time or casuality, there is a dimension utterly incomprehensible to mortal minds.
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 4

Timeless and ever-shifting, this psychic visionscape is known as the Realm of Chaos
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 6

The Realm of Chaos, also known as the Warp, the Immaterium or Warpspace, is a dimension parallel to our own, a universe devoid of matter and life, without laws of time and space.

--Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 6

The Empy holding reality against Chaos consuming the universe throughout space time.

"His immense psychic powers envelop and protect Mankind across the entire galaxy. His consciousness wanders through Warp space, warring against the Daemons that inhabit it, keeping closed the doors between this world and the next.

If the Emperor fails then the Daemons of Chaos will flood into the galaxy. Every living human will become a gateway for the destruction of Mankind and the stuff of Warp space will submerge the galaxy. There will be no physical matter. No space. No time. Only Chaos."
-Warhammer 40k 5th Edition rulebook, pg.101

Physically fettered, chained atop mountainous banks of
machinery, the Emperor's mind stretches out through space
and time - a light in a vast gulf of blackness.
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition Rulebook, pg.134

Outwardly, the Emperor is but a desiccated corpse, kept alive partly by the cyclopean, mystical machine of gold wrought by his own hand and partly by a will so powerful that it transcends the bounds of the blackened, shrivelled husk of his body. Physically fettered, chained atop mountainous banks of machinery, the Emperor’s mind stretches out through space and time – a light in a vast gulf of blackness. Should that spark of life ever be extinguished – should the Throne fail in its mysterious purpose – then Mankind would surely be lost.
-Warhammer 40k 7th Edition Rulebook

"Today, as for every day since that battle, the Emperor lives only by the immeasurable force of his supreme will. The stasis fields and psi-fusion reactors of the machine known as the Golden Throne preserve his broken and decayed body; his great mind endures inside a rotting carcass, kept alive by the mysteries of ancient technology. His immense psychic Powers reach out from the Golden Throne, enveloping and protecting Mankind across the enemy-strewn galaxy, a beacon of light in the malevolent darkness.

If the Emperor fails, then none will be able to stop the influx of the dark powers; ravenous and all-consurning Daemons will flood into the galaxy. Every living human will become a gateway for the destruction of Mankind. Reality as it is known will be subsumed by the stuff of Warp space - a realm of nightmares and cruel insanity where all life will end. There will be no physical matter. No space. No time. Only Chaos."
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg.137

"Daemons are destruction and anarchy incarnate and they lust after the flesh, blood and very souls of living creatures. They want only to destroy, to drag any living essence they can capture back to their shadowy realm, to obliterate the material universe and engulf it within Warp space."
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg. 144

Daemons are destruction and anarchy incarnate and they lust after the flesh, blood and very souls of living creatures. They want only to destroy, to drag any living essence they can capture back to their shadowy realm, to obliterate the material universe and engulf it within Warp space.
-Warhammer 40k 7th Edition rulebook

"They are never sated. The abominations from the Warp will not rest untii they have consumed not just Mankind, but the universe as well. All will be ruin; all will be Chaos."
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg. 234

Well the multiverse in marvel is a collection of a infinite number of universes, and these infinite amount of universes where created by a race that is fairly low in the cosmic hierarchy (the Celestials). The Living Tribunal, created two Megaverses, each containing a number of Multiverses which in turn each contained a infinite amount of universes.

But the amount of universes really isn't interesting, I'm more interested in what exactly has Tzeeth accomplished on panel, against say a race made of universal+ beings? (The Celestials in this case)

AncientPower
He'll turn them all insane, Khorne can use their hate and blood-spilling to fuel him exponentially. Nurgle is a god of disease and death both of which fuel him. Slaanesh can use the desires and pleasure of any non-devout being and utterly dominate their minds.

They exist on an infinite plane that they morph and destroy in a constant paradox. Everything is static and yet never stays the same. They are chaos and they feed off of emotions.

If Marvelverse starts annihilating systems or galaxies, then all it has accomplished is making them far far stronger. Kill the God-Emperor? Chaos becomes all-powerful and completely ravages all universes and dimensions with an eternal hell and it's hordes.

Utrigita
Originally posted by AncientPower
He'll turn them all insane, Khorne can use their hate and blood-spilling to fuel him exponentially. Nurgle is a god of disease and death both of which fuel him. Slaanesh can use the desires and pleasure of any non-devout being and utterly dominate their minds.

They exist on an infinite plane that they morph and destroy in a constant paradox. Everything is static and yet never stays the same. They are chaos and they feed off of emotions.

If Marvelverse starts annihilating systems or galaxies, then all it has accomplished is making them far far stronger. Kill the God-Emperor? Chaos becomes all-powerful and completely ravages all universes and dimensions with an eternal hell and it's hordes.

So do Master Order, Lord Chaos, Mistress Love, Sire Hate, Oblivion, Death, Eternity and Infinity so it's not like Chaos will be the only one gaining from a onslaught. And my question basically remains the same. Has the Chaos Gods ever resisted beings that are universal+?

Revanchiste
Without a very healthy mind.. You cannot resist chaos influence..

Years of existence and boredom drive people insane.... ANd the character of Vitiate is a great example...



he problems is that.. if you feed on violence death etc you may be.. Weell absord.; Eatn by Khorne... God of chaos eat other gods XD. If a god share a smilar "ADN" with a chaos god be sure to be eaten... Asborbed...
Except if your Khaine wich is an exception to the rule.. Or Isha... WHo have an use alive....

universal+? Resited?? Well we cannot talk of resitance because err humhum... in fact they just did not resit at all they get slaughter or absorbed by Chaos god XD. And keepin mind than they are daemonic gods... They use powers of such a cheapness..... It may look Teemo in Lol regarded as an angel......

ares834
Marvel Cosmics suck nowadays (and by that I mean since Wednesday). 40K stomps. smile

AncientPower
Originally posted by Utrigita
So do Master Order, Lord Chaos, Mistress Love, Sire Hate, Oblivion, Death, Eternity and Infinity so it's not like Chaos will be the only one gaining from a onslaught. And my question basically remains the same. Has the Chaos Gods ever resisted beings that are universal+?
Yes they have, when the God-Emperor killed Horus the Chaos Gods failed to be effected and fled.

trexalfa
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes they have, when the God-Emperor killed Horus the Chaos Gods failed to be effected and fled.

Implying the Emperor is even close to a Celestial in power, nevermind an Abstract.

Now to hell with this shit, Marvel stomps so hard it's not even funny. Who the flying fvck thought 40k could pose a challenge? Odin solos the Materium, while the Warp is taken care of by the Abstracts who turn the Chaos Gods into nice pets.

Revanchiste
It's a question of strategic tools more than raw power.....

The verse of warhammer 40 000 is powerfull but not united.. that's an argument for Marvel...
But on the reverse... What could be done? A lot of things.. Think about it.

Year of existance = boredom = wisdom and insanity.

trexalfa
Originally posted by Revanchiste
It's a question of strategic tools more than raw power.....

The verse of warhammer 40 000 is powerfull but not united.. that's an argument for Marvel...
But on the reverse... What could be done? A lot of things.. Think about it.

Year of existance = boredom = wisdom and insanity.

You can have the world's most intelligent amoeba colony, despite its intelligence, it won't be able to do anything when it has the Galactic Implosion Device from Total Annihilation going off above them.

And that's the situation here. Marvel has trillions of individuals that can solo 40k for the lulz.

Revanchiste
Except than Humhum Dark gods are.... Hum well.....
+A lot of immortal category 1 2 4 5

KingD19
What does that ranking even mean?

And do any 40k beings have feats approaching what Amatsu-Mikaboshi/Chaos King did?

He nearly brought about the end of everything, and literally forced thousands of Gods into his service if he didn't outright absorb them.

Franklin Richards is fated to watch the universe die and be there for the birth of the new one. Galactus is his pet.

Mad Jim Jaspers was so powerful that a weaker version of him lost control of his reality warping powers and was threatening to bleed his power into the main Marvel universe and then further on until it erased the entirety of the multiverse.

A stronger version was doing it even faster and the only way to beat him was that he himself made a robot that could counter any power. It had to shunt him out of reality to actually stop him. There are dozens of entities like this in Marvel.

NemeBro
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes they have, when the God-Emperor killed Horus the Chaos Gods failed to be effected and fled. The Emperor isn't universal.

ArtificialGlory
The Chaos Gods aren't even remotely omnipotent, not even in their own realms. Between the four of them, they control less than a galaxy's worth of Warp. They're nothing more than extremely powerful, bloated Daemons who are slaves to their own natures.

To compare them to Marvel's cosmic beings is absolutely ridiculous. If someone like Galactus were to destroy the Milky Way galaxy, the Chaos Gods would wither and die because that would cut them off from their source of "nourishment". And that's only one of the many ways that they could easily be defeated by Marvel's heavyweights.

Utrigita
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
The Chaos Gods aren't even remotely omnipotent, not even in their own realms. Between the four of them, they control less than a galaxy's worth of Warp. They're nothing more than extremely powerful, bloated Daemons who are slaves to their own natures.

To compare them to Marvel's cosmic beings is absolutely ridiculous. If someone like Galactus were to destroy the Milky Way galaxy, the Chaos Gods would wither and die because that would cut them off from their source of "nourishment". And that's only one of the many ways that they could easily be defeated by Marvel's heavyweights.

That sounds more in the range of what the Chaos Gods normally operates under, atleast that is my understanding from previous posts. I must admit I have zero knowledge of Warhammer 40k.

Revanchiste
In fact they are omnipotent in their own realm but they are 4 and are permantly are war...
And Tzentch have prooven to bealways able to reach his goal no matter what he have at his disposal...

And he live cuted from space and time No Marvel character can even kill him... To defeat him you need to use his own methods = be absorbed by him...

Tzeench is the most powerfull chaos god within the warp... Khorne is the most powerfull chaos gods in general...

Tzeench cannot be cutt from his nourishement.. + For each dimension there an infinities of alternative realities with a probabilities to not be destroyed....
Only a guy like Tzeench can modifiate those probabilities......

WARp is bigger than the entire meta verse it's an accumulation of what it's happening in the meta verse each second.. Only thirst of bloods, toughs, deads souls, pervert desires fear etc... Are refletead..... The house of the 4 chaos gods are FREEEEKIN ****ING HUDGE !!!!!!!!

And nothing is material.. here.. The rule of physic are completly ****ed up. Everythings is control by psychics powers...

All marvel super being reunite are just powerfull enough to satelmate the order... The order have been wreck by chaos gods... ONly major chaos survive the war.. But they are in fact some kind of super mega fusion of multiples gods....
+ There is the eldar god of death and the lord of the appocalypse.
One will be powerfull enough to kill slaanesh.. The other is the ultimate appocalypse god.... Archaon.

P.S : I've heard than this vs thread is turning to a Galac-D*cks fight...

Revanchiste

Revanchiste
XD warhammer 40 000.. The guy of the lord of the appocalypse. Before becoming a bad ass :
http://bibliotheque-imperiale.com/images/0/0d/Archaon_avant_couronnement.jpg


+ Marvel universe have the power to destroy it self.. Well Tzeentch is a master to use the nnemy power at his own advantage...

AncientPower
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
The Chaos Gods aren't even remotely omnipotent, not even in their own realms. Between the four of them, they control less than a galaxy's worth of Warp. They're nothing more than extremely powerful, bloated Daemons who are slaves to their own natures.

To compare them to Marvel's cosmic beings is absolutely ridiculous. If someone like Galactus were to destroy the Milky Way galaxy, the Chaos Gods would wither and die because that would cut them off from their source of "nourishment". And that's only one of the many ways that they could easily be defeated by Marvel's heavyweights.

They ARE the warp and the warp is infinite and multi-dimensional. They have absolute creation powers as well as reality warping capabilities.

The only thing stopping the Chaos Gods from enveloping that particular galaxy in the warp, is the Emperor's un-matched psyker capabilities which keeps a barrier between dimensions.

The Chaos Gods are vastly more powerful than you give them credit for.

"Skarbrand was one of the greatest champions of the Blood God. He has slain untold millions, left entire worlds ravaged in his wake, and even ravaged the realms of the other_Chaos Gods. However, it is also this unswayable dedication to destruction that proved to be Skarbrand's undoing.

Tzeentch, having taken note of the prowess of Khorne's favoured slaughterer, fuelled Skarbrand's rage even more with his whispers. With constant taunting, Tzeentch goaded Skarbrand into ever greater acts of destruction, until his rage grew so great that Skarbrand took up his axe against Khorne himself when his attention was elsewhere. Although powerful enough to fell an army, Skarbrand had only succeeded in opening up a chink in the armour of the Blood God. Enraged, Khorne snatched up Skarbrand in his clawed grip, and choked him until all vestiges of personality and thought had left the Bloodthirster, leaving only his rage behind. Khorne dragged Skarbrand to the pinnacle of the_Brass Citadel_and held him aloft for all to see. Then Khorne hurled Skarbrand across the_Warp, where he flew for eight days and nights, leaving a blazing trail of destruction across the realms of the Gods. Skarbrand's landing carved out a massive canyon, and tore his wings to shreds.

Ironically, however, Skarbrand served Khorne in tortured banishment better than he ever could. He had become an incarnation of mindless wrath, unbound by any loyalty or logic, indiscriminately spilling oceans of blood in the name of Khorne."

Greater Daemons themselves are demi-gods and the most powerful are star busters. Infact one of Slaanesh's greater daemons and not even of his top 10 most powerful managed to massacre so many millions in one night it unleashed a second tear in the warp which unleashed far greater slaughter than the first.

To know just how strong Khorne can be, he swung his axe from the warp, tore a massive gash in reality and cracked a continent in half.

NemeBro
They're low to mid tier Skyfathers. thumb up

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
In fact they are omnipotent in their own realm but they are 4 and are permantly are war...
And Tzentch have prooven to bealways able to reach his goal no matter what he have at his disposal...

And he live cuted from space and time No Marvel character can even kill him... To defeat him you need to use his own methods = be absorbed by him...

Tzeench is the most powerfull chaos god within the warp... Khorne is the most powerfull chaos gods in general...

Tzeench cannot be cutt from his nourishement.. + For each dimension there an infinities of alternative realities with a probabilities to not be destroyed....
Only a guy like Tzeench can modifiate those probabilities......

WARp is bigger than the entire meta verse it's an accumulation of what it's happening in the meta verse each second.. Only thirst of bloods, toughs, deads souls, pervert desires fear etc... Are refletead..... The house of the 4 chaos gods are FREEEEKIN ****ING HUDGE !!!!!!!!

And nothing is material.. here.. The rule of physic are completly ****ed up. Everythings is control by psychics powers...

All marvel super being reunite are just powerfull enough to satelmate the order... The order have been wreck by chaos gods... ONly major chaos survive the war.. But they are in fact some kind of super mega fusion of multiples gods....
+ There is the eldar god of death and the lord of the appocalypse.
One will be powerfull enough to kill slaanesh.. The other is the ultimate appocalypse god.... Archaon.

P.S : I've heard than this vs thread is turning to a Galac-D*cks fight...

No, they're not omnipotent. In fact, there are places in the Warp that are 'wild' and are not under the control of any of the 4 Chaos Gods. For supposedly omnipotent beings to control less than a galaxy's worth of territory seems pretty pathetic to me.

Tzeentch isn't even the most powerful God and in the end he is just as limited as the other Chaos Gods. Tzeentch can't even defeat the other 3 Chaos Gods, let alone become some kind of an omnipotent ruler of a Multiverse that you're trying to make him seem like.

Tzeentch is nourished by the very same thing the other Chaos Gods are: desires, thoughts, and actions of sentient beings in the galaxy. Destroy those beings(or the whole galaxy, cause why not) and he starves and eventually dies.

No, there are only two dimensions in the 40K Universe: the material universe and the Warp(some would perhaps consider the Webway to be a separate dimension from the other two). You seem to be mistaking probabilities and potential timelines for dimensions. Tzeentch can manipulate probability, but so can Marvel's cosmic beings and they can do it to far greater extent than Tzeentch.

No, the Warp runs parallel to the material universe and is as big as it is. Which is a single universe. Some Marvel beings can blink out multiple universes out of existence with a wave of their hand. Though again, this isn't even particularly relevant because Chaos only controls a tiny, tiny fraction of the Warp.

The rules of physics are ****ed up? Who cares? Cosmic beings do not abide by the laws of physics anyway. Yea, and somebody like Galactus has a psychic presence that is many orders of magnitude greater than the Emperor and the Chaos Gods put together.

The forces of the Order are confined to a single galaxy. Even a low-tier cosmic being from Marvel could destroy Order with a single fart.

The Eldar gods are pathetic. They were all either killed, enslaved, or ran away from the Chaos Gods. They'd be defeated even more easily than them.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by AncientPower
They ARE the warp and the warp is infinite and multi-dimensional. They have absolute creation powers as well as reality warping capabilities.

The only thing stopping the Chaos Gods from enveloping that particular galaxy in the warp, is the Emperor's un-matched psyker capabilities which keeps a barrier between dimensions.

The Chaos Gods are vastly more powerful than you give them credit for.

"Skarbrand was one of the greatest champions of the Blood God. He has slain untold millions, left entire worlds ravaged in his wake, and even ravaged the realms of the other_Chaos Gods. However, it is also this unswayable dedication to destruction that proved to be Skarbrand's undoing.

Tzeentch, having taken note of the prowess of Khorne's favoured slaughterer, fuelled Skarbrand's rage even more with his whispers. With constant taunting, Tzeentch goaded Skarbrand into ever greater acts of destruction, until his rage grew so great that Skarbrand took up his axe against Khorne himself when his attention was elsewhere. Although powerful enough to fell an army, Skarbrand had only succeeded in opening up a chink in the armour of the Blood God. Enraged, Khorne snatched up Skarbrand in his clawed grip, and choked him until all vestiges of personality and thought had left the Bloodthirster, leaving only his rage behind. Khorne dragged Skarbrand to the pinnacle of the_Brass Citadel_and held him aloft for all to see. Then Khorne hurled Skarbrand across the_Warp, where he flew for eight days and nights, leaving a blazing trail of destruction across the realms of the Gods. Skarbrand's landing carved out a massive canyon, and tore his wings to shreds.

Ironically, however, Skarbrand served Khorne in tortured banishment better than he ever could. He had become an incarnation of mindless wrath, unbound by any loyalty or logic, indiscriminately spilling oceans of blood in the name of Khorne."

Greater Daemons themselves are demi-gods and the most powerful are star busters. Infact one of Slaanesh's greater daemons and not even of his top 10 most powerful managed to massacre so many millions in one night it unleashed a second tear in the warp which unleashed far greater slaughter than the first.

To know just how strong Khorne can be, he swung his axe from the warp, tore a massive gash in reality and cracked a continent in half.

The Chaos Gods are NOT the Warp. The Warp has been around for much longer than them and even now they only control, at most, a galaxy's worth of Warp. The Warp is a single dimension that runs parallel to the material universe and is as large as it is. Some Marvel beings can blink out multiple universes out of existence with a wave of their hand.

The bit about the Emperor single-handedly keeping Chaos at bay is unsubstantiated. It's probably in-universe Imperial propaganda. For example, the Astronomicon doesn't even cover the entire galaxy. The Emperor's powers and reach are infinitesimal compared to even low-tier Marvel cosmic beings.

Which Greater Daemon ever busted a star? I'd really like to know that.

So some daemon managed to kill some million people in one night? That's nice and all, but there are beings in Marvel that can destroy a universe in a nanosecond.

Khorne tore a hole in reality and busted a continent? If that's the best he can do, a sufficiently angry Hulk would beat the shit out him.

Revanchiste
Originally posted by AncientPower
They ARE the warp and the warp is infinite and multi-dimensional. They have absolute creation powers as well as reality warping capabilities.

The only thing stopping the Chaos Gods from enveloping that particular galaxy in the warp, is the Emperor's un-matched psyker capabilities which keeps a barrier between dimensions.

The Chaos Gods are vastly more powerful than you give them credit for.

"Skarbrand was one of the greatest champions of the Blood God. He has slain untold millions, left entire worlds ravaged in his wake, and even ravaged the realms of the other_Chaos Gods. However, it is also this unswayable dedication to destruction that proved to be Skarbrand's undoing.

Tzeentch, having taken note of the prowess of Khorne's favoured slaughterer, fuelled Skarbrand's rage even more with his whispers. With constant taunting, Tzeentch goaded Skarbrand into ever greater acts of destruction, until his rage grew so great that Skarbrand took up his axe against Khorne himself when his attention was elsewhere. Although powerful enough to fell an army, Skarbrand had only succeeded in opening up a chink in the armour of the Blood God. Enraged, Khorne snatched up Skarbrand in his clawed grip, and choked him until all vestiges of personality and thought had left the Bloodthirster, leaving only his rage behind. Khorne dragged Skarbrand to the pinnacle of the_Brass Citadel_and held him aloft for all to see. Then Khorne hurled Skarbrand across the_Warp, where he flew for eight days and nights, leaving a blazing trail of destruction across the realms of the Gods. Skarbrand's landing carved out a massive canyon, and tore his wings to shreds.

Ironically, however, Skarbrand served Khorne in tortured banishment better than he ever could. He had become an incarnation of mindless wrath, unbound by any loyalty or logic, indiscriminately spilling oceans of blood in the name of Khorne."

Greater Daemons themselves are demi-gods and the most powerful are star busters. Infact one of Slaanesh's greater daemons and not even of his top 10 most powerful managed to massacre so many millions in one night it unleashed a second tear in the warp which unleashed far greater slaughter than the first.

To know just how strong Khorne can be, he swung his axe from the warp, tore a massive gash in reality and cracked a continent in half.

Marvel have guy like this too..

But the problem is than pro marvel... Don't understand than the warp is everything except just a classic standard metaverse... It's a WTF metaverse.

"The Chaos Gods are NOT the Warp. The Warp has been around for much longer than them and even now they only control, at most, a galaxy's worth of Warp. The Warp is a single dimension that runs parallel to the material universe and is as large as it is. Some Marvel beings can blink out multiple universes out of existence with a wave of their hand."

Yeess but Chaos is different.... So different.....

"The bit about the Emperor single-handedly keeping Chaos at bay is unsubstantiated. It's probably in-universe Imperial propaganda. For example, the Astronomicon doesn't even cover the entire galaxy. The Emperor's powers and reach are infinitesimal compared to even low-tier Marvel cosmic beings."

Yhea for example stortrooper being supêr elite soldier !!!


Nono.. if hulk get angry he get corrupted by Khorne here the bitchery....

Revanchiste
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-Q-DqUvoNY&list=PL35589503686DFDC1&index=5

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Marvel have guy like this too..

But the problem is than pro marvel... Don't understand than the warp is everything except just a classic standard metaverse... It's a WTF metaverse.

"The Chaos Gods are NOT the Warp. The Warp has been around for much longer than them and even now they only control, at most, a galaxy's worth of Warp. The Warp is a single dimension that runs parallel to the material universe and is as large as it is. Some Marvel beings can blink out multiple universes out of existence with a wave of their hand."

Yeess but Chaos is different.... So different.....

"The bit about the Emperor single-handedly keeping Chaos at bay is unsubstantiated. It's probably in-universe Imperial propaganda. For example, the Astronomicon doesn't even cover the entire galaxy. The Emperor's powers and reach are infinitesimal compared to even low-tier Marvel cosmic beings."

Yhea for example stortrooper being supêr elite soldier !!!


Nono.. if hulk get angry he get corrupted by Khorne here the bitchery....

The Warp is not a metaverse, it's a dimension. Just because it's a scary and a strange place to most mortals doesn't mean it will be the same for cosmic beings.

How is it so different?

Not necessarily. Getting angry isn't typically sufficient for Chaos corruption.

Galan007
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Except for the OP characters like singular planet busters the vast majority of the normal super heroes would not really stand up to the billions of troops in power armor and monster sized forces in WH. There are a lot of pysker capable forces as well as conventional tough ass infantry forces. The Tyrannyds and Necrons are some serious mofos to. Numbers wise I don't know how ya would pit them as a chance if it were not for hax characters. 'Billions' hardly impresses me when Annihilus alone commands TRILLIONS of forces:
http://i.imgur.com/NDjPhsZl.jpg


Anywho, this 'battle' ends when Galactus(one example of many) unleashes a "Herald My Rage" galaxy-buster. Sure, there might be a few stragglers left over from 40k-verse, but enough to pose any sort of threat to Marvel? Absolutely not. thumb up

Revanchiste
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
The Warp is not a metaverse, it's a dimension. Just because it's a scary and a strange place to most mortals doesn't mean it will be the same for cosmic beings.

How is it so different?

Not necessarily. Getting angry isn't typically sufficient for Chaos corruption.

There no solid materials.... It's connected to multiple dimension alternatives realities and alternatives universe.... The notion of time doesn't exist....

The warp eat time.... at each 0.000000001 yoctasecond..... One years in the real world is reflected in the warp.. The warp is a mirror......
It's made by though thinking and emotions....

"Billions' hardly impresses me when Annihilus alone commands TRILLIONS of forces:"

There is 48 000 000 000 000 000 000 guards men in the imperium of man kind. And the number quicly regenerate despite the looses....

Look at the ork.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Orks_activity.jpg
Necron :
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Orks_activity.jpg
Tyranids :
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Tyranids_incursions.jpg

And https://www.youtube.com/user/TheXPGamers/search?query=warhammer
Look how many space marine chapter there is....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weLJKWxQflQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCyXRM6MNF8

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
There no solid materials.... It's connected to multiple dimension alternatives realities and alternatives universe.... The notion of time doesn't exist....

The warp eat time.... at each 0.000000001 yoctasecond..... One years in the real world is reflected in the warp.. The warp is a mirror......
It's made by though thinking and emotions....

"Billions' hardly impresses me when Annihilus alone commands TRILLIONS of forces:"

There is 48 000 000 000 000 000 000 guards men in the imperium of man kind. And the number quicly regenerate despite the looses....

Look at the ork.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Orks_activity.jpg
Necron :
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Orks_activity.jpg
Tyranids :
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Tyranids_incursions.jpg

And https://www.youtube.com/user/TheXPGamers/search?query=warhammer
Look how many space marine chapter there is....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weLJKWxQflQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCyXRM6MNF8

Like I said before, the Warp is a single dimension. It's connected to the physical universe, but that's about it. The notion of time exists within the Warp, it's just that it's less predictable and chaotic than it is in the physical universe.

I don't know where you got that 0.000000001 yoctosecond equaling a year figure from, but it's completely false. If it was true, then any ship entering the Warp would essentially never come out. Yes, time can get weird inside the Warp, but this is ridiculous.

I think you really need to stop pulling numbers out of your ass. There aren't 48 000 000 000 000 000 000 people in the Imperium of Man, let alone Guardsmen. Even if that number was correct, it still wouldn't matter to a being who can destroy the whole Milky Way galaxy with a wave of his hand.

KingD19
I think his science is based on the theory of, "I really f*cking want Warhammer to win*

Revanchiste
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ey31zwy9Kyo
XD That's true.. That's why SW EU get the edge on the imperium of mankind...

Fleet often arrive too late....

O.K... watch this a video from a warha fan (he don't really know SW or Halo universe)

And I always align my self with the weakest universe....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbcxXDMyVb0

In your ass !!!! Done that by memories...

http://assiste.free.fr/kotor_2/effectifs_militaires_de_revan.html
Look at this even for Revan armies we have absolutly hudge numbers !!!!!! IMAGINE IN WARHAMMER 40K?? WITH A SUCH BIG ASS GALAXY !!!

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ey31zwy9Kyo
XD That's true.. That's why SW EU get the edge on the imperium of mankind...

Fleet often arrive too late....

O.K... watch this a video from a warha fan (he don't really know SW or Halo universe)

And I always align my self with the weakest universe....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbcxXDMyVb0

In your ass !!!! Done that by memories...

http://assiste.free.fr/kotor_2/effectifs_militaires_de_revan.html
Look at this even for Revan armies we have absolutly hudge numbers !!!!!! IMAGINE IN WARHAMMER 40K?? WITH A SUCH BIG ASS GALAXY !!!

Do you expect us to watch a 2 hour long video?

If your yoctasecond figure was correct, the ships would never arrive at all.

The guy who made that video is basing his numbers on pure speculation and assumptions. For example, why does he/she assume that the Imperium controls 1 billion planets?

I can't read that as it's in French. Anyway, I'm not sure how Revan is relevant to this debate?

Revanchiste
"If your yoctasecond figure was correct, the ships would never arrive at all."
It was hyprbolic.... Une hyperbole....


"The guy who made that video is basing his numbers on pure speculation and assumptions. For example, why does he/she assume that the Imperium controls 1 billion planets? "

Well I know than the imperium have control over more than err well more than 1x10^9 The galaxy in a warhammer 40 000 franchise is just SSSSOOOOO BIIIIIG. EVen star war or Halo have smallers ones !!!
But it depend of the timeline... I assume with all those exterminatus.....

Anyway For the imperial guard 1 000 000 000 is just nothing at all.... (Except when it's bad ass ones...)

With just 1 000 worlds know to the republic and only intellegent species the star war univers (In reality there only 20 000 world with living intelligent species...)
and a ridiculous purcentage of population active in teh armly you easly get 1 000 000 soldiers.... So Why not for the imperial guard? The Warhammer 40 000 universe is really massiv. (Or it was until they calm dow on te exterminatus !)

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
"If your yoctasecond figure was correct, the ships would never arrive at all."
It was hyprbolic.... Une hyperbole....


"The guy who made that video is basing his numbers on pure speculation and assumptions. For example, why does he/she assume that the Imperium controls 1 billion planets? "

Well I know than the imperium have control over more than err well more than 1x10^9 The galaxy in a warhammer 40 000 franchise is just SSSSOOOOO BIIIIIG. EVen star war or Halo have smallers ones !!!
But it depend of the timeline... I assume with all those exterminatus.....

Anyway For the imperial guard 1 000 000 000 is just nothing at all.... (Except when it's bad ass ones...)

With just 1 000 worlds know to the republic and only intellegent species the star war univers (In reality there only 20 000 world with living intelligent species...)
and a ridiculous purcentage of population active in teh armly you easly get 1 000 000 soldiers.... So Why not for the imperial guard? The Warhammer 40 000 universe is really massiv. (Or it was until they calm dow on te exterminatus !)

Well, alright then.

While I know how large the Milky Way galaxy is, the size of it doesn't really matter(it surely doesn't matter to beings who can destroy whole universes). What matters is how much territory the Imperium controls. Now I'm not sure whether the exact size of the Imperium has ever been stated, but closest I can find to official statements/figures vary from 100,000 to 1,000,000 planets.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing Star Wars into this.

BeyonderGod
Kubik handles this.....

Revanchiste

ArtificialGlory

KingD19
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory

What's a Rank 3 character?

So far below Galactus and the others that he'd get wrecked along with the rest of the 40k universe. cool

Revanchiste
O.K Only one billion space marine.... Not 5... You were right XD.

Commorraghexist in the "toile" (I don't know how to translate this...)
It never cess to grow since the dark eldar escape slaanesh influence....
They became free from slaanesh and each person who suffer source their power...


Keep in mind than Warhammer 40 000 universe get multiple rank one characters...

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
O.K Only one billion space marine.... Not 5... You were right XD.

Commorraghexist in the "toile" (I don't know how to translate this...)
It never cess to grow since the dark eldar escape slaanesh influence....
They became free from slaanesh and each person who suffer source their power...


Keep in mind than Warhammer 40 000 universe get multiple rank one characters...

No, there aren't 1 billion Space Marines either. Where do you keep getting these numbers from?

It exists in the toilet? What? Anyway, can you give me the number of Dark Eldar backed by at least something resembling an official source?

What's a 'rank one character'?

Utrigita
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
What's a 'rank one character'?

Originally posted by KingD19
So far below Galactus and the others that he'd get wrecked along with the rest of the 40k universe. cool

ArtificialGlory
I see... so what kind of ranking are we talking about here? Can I get an example of a 'rank one' character?

Revanchiste
Galatus is at maximum a level 2 character....

So without 0 to 3 ran character warha clearly win...

+ Khârn really slain 5 millions space marine after salining "one million false emperor lackery"

Yhea this is goofy as hell.... But hey there is multiple chapters.... And you know with the creation of the legion of space marines during the heresy...

-Killed 26 Khrone berserkers in close combat in only a few seconds. These guys are basically weaker less skilled versions of himself.

aRecatification he kill 5 million servant of the false emperor including 2K+ space marines..

But after thousand of year he surely have killed more than 5 million space marine XD ho this is so goofy...


quote :

"Kharn was about 200 years old when he turned traitor. Meaning he had followed this schedule everyday for 200 years (unless he was called to a real battle of course). He is now 10.000years old and soloed 2485 Space Marines in one battle. Each with 100-200 years training and combat experience. What are the chances that anyone up there has anywhere near that much experience or level of skill?"

Anwser :

"Yess he did... And there the chance are equal to became the most favorite Khorne hcampion...)

Utrigita
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Galatus is at maximum a level 2 character....

So without 0 to 3 ran character warha clearly win...

+ Khârn really slain 5 millions space marine after salining "one million false emperor lackery"

Yhea this is goofy as hell.... But hey there is multiple chapters.... And you know with the creation of the legion of space marines during the heresy...

-Killed 26 Khrone berserkers in close combat in only a few seconds. These guys are basically weaker less skilled versions of himself.

aRecatification he kill 5 million servant of the false emperor including 2K+ space marines..

But after thousand of year he surely have killed more than 5 million space marine XD ho this is so goofy...


quote :

"Kharn was about 200 years old when he turned traitor. Meaning he had followed this schedule everyday for 200 years (unless he was called to a real battle of course). He is now 10.000years old and soloed 2485 Space Marines in one battle. Each with 100-200 years training and combat experience. What are the chances that anyone up there has anywhere near that much experience or level of skill?"

Anwser :

"Yess he did... And there the chance are equal to became the most favorite Khorne hcampion...)

Do you even have the slightest idea of what Galactus can do?

And that still hasn't answered the question from Artificialglory, what kinda ranking are we talking about, what's it based on?

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Galatus is at maximum a level 2 character....

So without 0 to 3 ran character warha clearly win...

+ Khârn really slain 5 millions space marine after salining "one million false emperor lackery"

Yhea this is goofy as hell.... But hey there is multiple chapters.... And you know with the creation of the legion of space marines during the heresy...

-Killed 26 Khrone berserkers in close combat in only a few seconds. These guys are basically weaker less skilled versions of himself.

aRecatification he kill 5 million servant of the false emperor including 2K+ space marines..

But after thousand of year he surely have killed more than 5 million space marine XD ho this is so goofy...


quote :

"Kharn was about 200 years old when he turned traitor. Meaning he had followed this schedule everyday for 200 years (unless he was called to a real battle of course). He is now 10.000years old and soloed 2485 Space Marines in one battle. Each with 100-200 years training and combat experience. What are the chances that anyone up there has anywhere near that much experience or level of skill?"

Anwser :

"Yess he did... And there the chance are equal to became the most favorite Khorne hcampion...)

Look, I have no clue what ranking system you're using here, but Galactus at full power is Universal+ and that's being conservative and not including stuff like the Ultimate Nullifier. This is many orders of magnitude above anyone in Warhammer 40,000.

If we're talking about how many guys Kharne has killed over the span of 10,000 years, then sure, I can believe those numbers. That means he kills 1 or 2 guys a day, which is not very impressive, actually.

KingD19
Let's talk about Galactus' kill count. It's beyond trillions as he eats planets. A single planet with a big enough ppoulation would put him at similar if not great number than that. He's been devouring planets with untold billions of life forms on them for eons.

Revanchiste
Tier: At least 3-C, possibly 2-C | 1-C within the warp.
And this for al chaos godds !!!!

1-C: Complex Multiverse level:

These are 6-11-dimensional characters. Even 6-dimensional characters can logically easily destroy an infinite number of simple multiversal spacetime continuums (this is roughly the equivalent of the previous "Megaverse" term), and 7-dimensional characters exceed that scale an infinite number of times, and so onwards. However, these characters do not exceed the 11-dimensional scale of the complete totality of a full multiverse, as defined by M-Theory.

The highest part of this category is an infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity number of times greater than the bottom.

Tzeench is a 9 dimensional entity or perhaps more or peharps a 0
He always change...... So that's hard to tell... He is depicted most often as a 9D character.; But live in a romm where space and time doesn't even exist... Well... I challenge any Marvel universe character to do the same.
+
Warp is hell even for god himself. Since chaos gods absord every other godds !!!

Tier 2: Multi-Universal

2-A: Multiverse level+ :

Characters who can instantly create and/or destroy 10^500 to an infinite number of universal spacetime continuums.

Galactus is 2-A.

Revanchiste
Surviving big bang O.K kill something that not even material I mean it's not like a classic spiriit he doesn't existe thank to particles... Something made of your own dream and though.... Good luck !!

As you live and think... Tzeentch will exist !

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Tier: At least 3-C, possibly 2-C | 1-C within the warp.
And this for al chaos godds !!!!

1-C: Complex Multiverse level:

These are 6-11-dimensional characters. Even 6-dimensional characters can logically easily destroy an infinite number of simple multiversal spacetime continuums (this is roughly the equivalent of the previous "Megaverse" term), and 7-dimensional characters exceed that scale an infinite number of times, and so onwards. However, these characters do not exceed the 11-dimensional scale of the complete totality of a full multiverse, as defined by M-Theory.

The highest part of this category is an infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity number of times greater than the bottom.

Tzeench is a 9 dimensional entity or perhaps more or peharps a 0
He always change...... So that's hard to tell... He is depicted most often as a 9D character.; But live in a romm where space and time doesn't even exist... Well... I challenge any Marvel universe character to do the same.
+
Warp is hell even for god himself. Since chaos gods absord every other godds !!!

Tier 2: Multi-Universal

2-A: Multiverse level+ :

Characters who can instantly create and/or destroy 10^500 to an infinite number of universal spacetime continuums.

Galactus is 2-A.

Yes, I see. Now the only problem that we have is that WH40K has no character that is even close to 1-C. Nowhere is Tzeentch or any of the Chaos Gods depicted to be even remotely this powerful. In addition, the Warp isn't this utterly incomprehensible and inhospitable place that you're trying to make it out to be. Yes, it's a horrible place for mortals, but even then, mortals like Kaldor Draigo have managed to survive in the Warp just fine.

There are many characters in Marvel that make Kaldor Draigo look like a helpless toddler. As for being outside of time and space: we've been through this already. Any cosmic being in Marvel worth his/her salt can exist just fine outside of time and space.

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure Galactus could devour the entirety of the Warp(along with its denizens) if he wanted to.

Revanchiste
Weaknesses: Needs to feed on planets to sustain himself, if he goes for more than a month without eating a planet he will grow weak and eventually die. Tends to ignore weaker beings so it's possible to set up a trap and surprise him without his notice.

Well I challenge to try a time manipulation trick in tzeentch maze. Considering that in teh warp there is no planets !!

+Kaldor was helped by the emperor of Mankind..... Deep in the Darkest Region of the warp especialy chaos domains even super human god or deamons are dooms...

If Humanity can use teh warp that's thank to the emperor of Mankind.. who is a pure bad ass..... Especialy in the warp where he just reach chuck norris level.

Really in the warp that chaos gods who are kings and play with souls reality.. Especialy tzeentch... Who own the thinking of every entity within the warp... Based uppon that... A master pupet that own your thinkings... Pretty much unstoppable....

It's look impossible.. But that's what Tzeetch do the impossible.. he know how to realize impossibles things.... That's like guts taking over super bad ass deamons Solid snake still kicking ass masterchief who still alive thank to his luck etc etc....

+There is an other gods in gestation within the warp... A god of death so powerfull than the reaper won't be afraid of chuck nrorris anymore... Cleary the description place him as more powerfull than any joke character ever created.

I repeat myself but here it is
Quote about the warp :
A) No, every single being is not a part of the material universe, there's the infinite inhabitants of the Warp.

B) It clearly says by the emotions and souls of every being of the material universe. There's nothing "obviously" limiting it to the known universe.

C) They're powered by every being not just the ones leaving off psychic energy.

D) Tzeentch is active in the Warhammer: Fantasy universe that Games Workshop has clearly stated is not in the 40k Universe. So not only do the Chaos Gods have domain over the material universe of 40k but they are also present in the Fantasy Universe, making them multi-universal Gods...and before you, very politely I'm sure, inquire yes they are the same entity.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Weaknesses: Needs to feed on planets to sustain himself, if he goes for more than a month without eating a planet he will grow weak and eventually die. Tends to ignore weaker beings so it's possible to set up a trap and surprise him without his notice.

Well I challenge to try a time manipulation trick in tzeentch maze. Considering that in teh warp there is no planets !!

+Kaldor was helped by the emperor of Mankind..... Deep in the Darkest Region of the warp especialy chaos domains even super human god or deamons are dooms...

If Humanity can use teh warp that's thank to the emperor of Mankind.. who is a pure bad ass..... Especialy in the warp where he just reach chuck norris level.

Yes, Galactus has those weaknesses, but for the purpose of vs. debates we usually assume the characters are at their strongest. That means that Galactus has just fed and is at 100% power.

Why would he need a planet for time manipulation to work?

Kaldor has gone to the deepest regions of the Warp(like Nurgle's garden, which he burned down) and came out just fine.

Yea, the Emperor is a badass, but he's still incredibly limited compared to Marvel's cosmic beings. The fact that the Emperor's powers are so effective against Chaos pretty much proves that the Chaos Gods aren't even close to being omnipotent because the Emperor definitely isn't.

Revanchiste

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
A) No, every single being is not a part of the material universe, there's the infinite inhabitants of the Warp.

B) It clearly says by the emotions and souls of every being of the material universe. There's nothing "obviously" limiting it to the known universe.

C) They're powered by every being not just the ones leaving off psychic energy.

D) Tzeentch is active in the Warhammer: Fantasy universe that Games Workshop has clearly stated is not in the 40k Universe. So not only do the Chaos Gods have domain over the material universe of 40k but they are also present in the Fantasy Universe, making them multi-universal Gods...and before you, very politely I'm sure, inquire yes they are the same entity.

A) Any proof that the inhabitants of the Warp are infinite?

B) The Warp runs parallel to the material universe. The claim that it somehow runs 'beyond' it requires proof. In fact, the Warp grows more diffuse in intergalactic space which supports the claim that it is tied to the material universe.

C) I'm not 100% sure of this, but people who give of no psychic energy or even negative psychic energy(called 'nulls') actually have a calming effect on the Warp and can repel sorcery and Daemons. I'm pretty sure that's the opposite of powering the Warp.

D) Warhammer Fantasy and WH40K are two different entities entirely. Yes, they share concepts, names of the Chaos Gods, style, etc., but I've not seen evidence that they're a part of a single Multiverse or are somehow otherwise connected. I've also heard of theories that the Warhammer Fantasy world is just a planet in the Milky Way galaxy that the Imperium hasn't re-discovered yet.

ArtificialGlory

Revanchiste

ArtificialGlory

Revanchiste
I mean, not the warp I mean an alternative rality connected to the warp...
Since he also can see all "future" alternates realities, and re-arrange theme...

Revanchiste
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
No, there aren't 1 billion Space Marines either. Where do you keep getting these numbers from?

It exists in the toilet? What? Anyway, can you give me the number of Dark Eldar backed by at least something resembling an official source?

What's a 'rank one character'?


Toile the net not toilet...

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
I mean, not the warp I mean an alternative rality connected to the warp...
Since he also can see all "future" alternates realities, and re-arrange theme...

There are no alternative realities connected to the Warp that I know of. I believe that Tzeentch can see different outcomes, but he still has to manipulate and scheme in order to change things. He cannot just will them to happen. This ability will be of little use to Tzeentch when all outcomes are 'getting eaten by Galactus for breakfast'.

Revanchiste
Problem chaos have this kind of breakfast....

Revanchiste
Problem chaos have this kind of breakfast....

And within the warp chaos gods rules... If someone survive the warp that's because tzeentch decide it.... Tzeetch is 1-C within the warp.

He can destroy any weaker characters including rank 2 character with ease.
And her that's just by thinking !!!!!

1-C: Complex Multiverse level:

These are 6-11-dimensional characters. Even 6-dimensional characters can logically easily destroy an infinite number of simple multiversal spacetime continuums (this is roughly the equivalent of the previous "Megaverse" term), and 7-dimensional characters exceed that scale an infinite number of times, and so onwards. However, these characters do not exceed the 11-dimensional scale of the complete totality of a full multiverse, as defined by M-Theory.

The highest part of this category is an infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity number of times greater than the bottom.

Tzeentch maze is in 9D if I remember and he live in a dimension hum well 0D

Galactus have survived the 1D or I rather say 0.5D with only time.. Err I mean .. Time wasn't really well defined....

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Problem chaos have this kind of breakfast....

And within the warp chaos gods rules... If someone survive the warp that's because tzeentch decide it.... Tzeetch is 1-C within the warp.

He can destroy any weaker characters including rank 2 character with ease.
And her that's just by thinking !!!!!

1-C: Complex Multiverse level:

These are 6-11-dimensional characters. Even 6-dimensional characters can logically easily destroy an infinite number of simple multiversal spacetime continuums (this is roughly the equivalent of the previous "Megaverse" term), and 7-dimensional characters exceed that scale an infinite number of times, and so onwards. However, these characters do not exceed the 11-dimensional scale of the complete totality of a full multiverse, as defined by M-Theory.

The highest part of this category is an infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity number of times greater than the bottom.

Tzeentch maze is in 9D if I remember and he live in a dimension hum well 0D

Galactus have survived the 1D or I rather say 0.5D with only time.. Err I mean .. Time wasn't really well defined....

Again, you're making this claim of Tzeentch being essentially omnipotent without showing any feats of that.

I'm sorry, but basing somebody's power on how many dimensions they can see/be in is absolutely ridiculous. Where did you even get this power ranking system from, anyway? I just can't take it seriously.

EDIT: M-theory? It's a real life physics theory. Applying it to determine the powers of fictional characters is absurd. Especially to characters that explicitly break the laws of physics on a whim.

KingD19
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Again, you're making this claim of Tzeentch being essentially omnipotent without showing any feats of that.

I'm sorry, but basing somebody's power on how many dimensions they can see/be in is absolutely ridiculous. Where did you even get this power ranking system from, anyway? I just can't take it seriously.

EDIT: M-theory? It's a real life physics theory. Applying it to determine the powers of fictional characters is absurd. Especially to characters that explicitly break the laws of physics on a whim.


It's all ridiculous and absurd. But you underestimate just how much he doesn't care about that. He really wants 40k to win.

ArtificialGlory
I should also mention that M-theory is a fanciful and an unproven theory, at that.

Robtard
Revanchiste is the worst thing to happen to WH40K since William King

NemeBro
Shut up Robtard. crylaugh

StealthRanger
Shut up Revanshite

God damn you induce such a Raigen Effect so massive any respectable Warhammer fan would want to commit suicide

Robtard
Originally posted by NemeBro
Shut up Robtard. crylaugh

Make me!

Revanchiste
I take the party of the most disavantaged faction... Always.
(Except if the stomp is really really really clear)

So yhea That's for no under estimatetion.
+Tzeentch always realize the impossible. It is an another reason even more valuable than the other one.. Like Guts slaining deamon 100 000 more power than himself with no ruse.. He just go bersek XD Or master chief pure luck... And other X factors
He is omnipotent in the warp. And is able to influence people thinking outside the warp... Scheming is just the safest way to realize his plan.

+ You answer me nothing for the god of death....

+ All 1 or 0 rank character in marvel universe are neutrals....

+ Chaos good are totaly immortal (in theory if we follow the legend that tail that one day an eldar corrupt god of death will born and kill slaanesh...) Because they ever existed since live have been created in the warhammer 40 000 multiverse.... In the warhammer universe the warp of the "toile" was safe with no chaos godds, Khorn was the first chaos to appears, but chaos godds have ever existed....

So my deduction... Chaos goods are nt only in the warp, the warhammer 40 000 chaos gods within the warp only reflect warhammer 40 000 universe....
there is other dimension with the warp where chaos gods exist or not with
a different face and attributes.....
It's like.. Well when you cumul heat + air + a combustible you make fire appear...
When you cumulate blood flow + war + hate and anger of blood, you make appear an avatar of khorn within the warp.. Well Khorn is an avatr of that mysterious god.... Avatar that posses himself an other "mortal" avatar...

There is other godds living in a 0 dimension behind the warp where chaos gods aren't defin very well, but at least they are connected to the warp... But there is an exception Tzeentch.....


"Shut up Revanshite"
Make me. I'm talking to you Robtarb !


The problem Artificial glory is that you are only reliying on galactus galactus himself is not powerfull enough... To do so.. That's the problem;... I know he is kinda in the O.P.. But he is not enough powerful to take down chaos by himself....

+ If he dare eat the warp (if he have th power because warp is a dimension beyond multiversal + we don't know if he really can) he could get corrupted...Possessed.... If I was galactus I won't suck some demonic stuff with really powerful mindraping abilities, lies, lust, desires, bloods etc...
And chaos godds could automaticaly reborn intantly .. Summoned by the cultists of each goods....

Chaos gods love their jobs Khorne love "berserking" nurgle have an humhum kof wierd sens of humor, slaanesh is completly driven by his own fun. And tzeentch take some minor risk to make his sheme more tragic or poetic (cuz he can biatch) or play with his foes make them dance, but he always do that knowing the issue.... It explain some weakness in Tzeench plan but in the end the plan never fail....

KingD19
We are not only relying on Galactus. He's one of literally legions of Godlike beings and actual Gods. All of whom can pretty much do everything your guys can and many can do even more.

Hell let's forget Galactus for a moment. What can any of the 40k guys do against multiversal reality warpers like Mad Jim Jaspers and Jamie Braddock? Or guys like the Celestial Host or Abraxas? Jack diddly shit is what they can do.


Also, it's really hard to understand what you're writing.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
So yhea That's for no under estimatetion.
+Tzeentch always realize the impossible. It is an another reason even more valuable than the other one.. Like Guts slaining deamon 100 000 more power than himself with no ruse.. He just go bersek XD Or master chief pure luck... And other X factors
He is omnipotent in the warp. And is able to influence people thinking outside the warp... Scheming is just the safest way to realize his plan.

+ You answer me nothing for the god of death....

+ All 1 or 0 rank character in marvel universe are neutrals....

+ Chaos good are totaly immortal (in theory if we follow the legend that tail that one day an eldar corrupt god of death will born and kill slaanesh...) Because they ever existed since live have been created in the warhammer 40 000 multiverse.... In the warhammer universe the warp of the "toile" was safe with no chaos godds, Khorn was the first chaos to appears, but chaos godds have ever existed....

So my deduction... Chaos goods are nt only in the warp, the warhammer 40 000 chaos gods within the warp only reflect warhammer 40 000 universe....
there is other dimension with the warp where chaos gods exist or not with
a different face and attributes.....
It's like.. Well when you cumul heat + air + a combustible you make fire appear...
When you cumulate blood flow + war + hate and anger of blood, you make appear an avatar of khorn within the warp.. Well Khorn is an avatr of that mysterious god.... Avatar that posses himself an other "mortal" avatar...

There is other godds living in a 0 dimension behind the warp where chaos gods aren't defin very well, but at least they are connected to the warp... But there is an exception Tzeentch.....


"Shut up Revanshite"
Make me. I'm talking to you Robtarb !


The problem Artificial glory is that you are only reliying on galactus galactus himself is not powerfull enough... To do so.. That's the problem;... I know he is kinda in the O.P.. But he is not enough powerful to take down chaos by himself....

+ If he dare eat the warp (if he have th power because warp is a dimension beyond multiversal + we don't know if he really can) he could get corrupted...Possessed.... If I was galactus I won't suck some demonic stuff with really powerful mindraping abilities, lies, lust, desires, bloods etc...
And chaos godds could automaticaly reborn intantly .. Summoned by the cultists of each goods....

Chaos gods love their jobs Khorne love "berserking" nurgle have an humhum kof wierd sens of humor, slaanesh is completly driven by his own fun. And tzeentch take some minor risk to make his sheme more tragic or poetic (cuz he can biatch) or play with his foes make them dance, but he always do that knowing the issue.... It explain some weakness in Tzeench plan but in the end the plan never fail....

+So when has Tzeentch ever "realized the impossible"? Is it because his home is called "The Impossible Fortress"? That's just a name. Yea, I think what you're talking about is called PIS.
How is Tzeentch omnipotent in the Warp when he doesn't even control the entire Warp? And why would an omnipotent being feel the need to be 'safe'?

+Who's the god of death? You mean one of the C'tan? You know, Marvel actually has a cosmic being named Death.

+What difference does it make whether they're neutral or not?

+Immortal as long as they get nourishment from sentient beings, yes. But immortal does not mean invincible or indestructible. Deprive the Chaos Gods from their nourishment and they will eventually perish. For the last time, the Chaos Gods are not as old as life or the universe. Hell, when the Old Ones and the Necrontyr fought their war millions of years ago, the Warp was a calm, neutral place: no daemons, no Chaos Gods, no corruption, etc.

I don't really get what you're trying to say here. There's only one Warp and Tzeentch is not fundamentally different from the other Chaos Gods.

I'm not relying on Galactus only(though he alone could destroy everybody in WH40K quite easily), I'm just using him as a primary example.

+ First of all, we have no proof that the Warp is multiversal, but even if it was, Chaos is in control of only a tiny fraction of the Warp. Galactus has consumed demonic crap before(Mephisto's hellish realm) and he was just fine. The Warp would be nothing to him as he can convert virtually any type of energy into what he needs and no one in the Warp is powerful enough to even scratch or corrupt Galactus. If the daemons couldn't corrupt or mindrape the Emperor of Mankind, why would they be able to do it to a being that is many orders of magnitude more powerful than the Emperor? And why would the Chaos Gods be reborn instantly? It took them thousands, if not millions, of years to form in the first place. Except that there would be no cultists left because Galactus just destroyed the Milky Way galaxy(or the entire universe) along with everyone in it.

How do we know that Tzeentch's plans never fail? Do you have a source on that?

Revanchiste
I have top say.. It is an evidence there is chaos god that exist behind teh warp.. They are shapless.... And they "born" (begin to manifest themself) in the warp if emotion begin to flow. They reflect the world...
It is describe that chaos don't know the concept of space and time and ad that chaos godds ever existed so I assume that the author of this text is talking about chaos godds beyond the warp. If I follow this theory they live in a palce where space and time doesn't exist.

They are shapless except one : Tzeentch... In the warp of warhammer 40 000 universe. There is only one god that posses no true form Tzeentch (Yhea irony of teh story...) his manifestation within the warp always change... But that's just an avatr like Khorn is an avatar within the warp for a certain chaos gods that live in a place connected to a complexe metaverse.....
And who else live a place where time and space don't exist.. Well.... : tzeentch !!!! Of course tzeench.. And have you think about the possibility that the forteress of the impossible is connected to multiple version of the warp?

If chaos gods can exist elsewhere in different shapes an forms... While sharing similar traits and aspect.... without sharing same "memories"

Why not for tzeentch being the same, with teh same memories....
That's why he is the strongest... I know the concept is quite "ineffable" but explain in the warhammer 40 000 universe.


+Tzeench plan never fail and tzeench is able to realize the impossible.... That's mean Tzeench against an army of being more powerfull than him can still win.. Even if odds are at 0% chance of wining..... Tzeentch canrealize the impossible som that's mean Tzeetch always posses a chance to win...

Tzeentch like many chaos godds is able to absorb and eat other gods and godlike beings... And have even face the emperor of Mankind who within the wwarp can basicly rape chuck norris himself... Actualy The emepror within the warp .. Well there is actually no limit establish to his power.....
And tzeetch not only resist him but defeat him... So yhea... Don't **** with Tzeentch...

The emperor of Mankind
He even summon massif legions of gods like being just by thinking 0.0000...0001s and they where trillions of mighty warships man etc... Or mayby higer ships... Within the warp the power of the god emperor of mankind have no limits....

Tzeentch offer a totaly unfair X factor : Instant victory.. Not because he is O.P and able of mass destruction... But he is just omnipotent in pure power he is just 1-C within the warp... But in reality with his sheming capacity he just reach the 0 ranking.... He can just basicly accomplish anything by just sheming...


Like guts, is cappble of killing any demons just by going berserk...

That's a rule if his goal is victory he just have to write a plan !!!! And it will work...

KingD19
Except there's absolutely no evidence of this except you said so.

While there's guys like Mad Jim Jaspers who just by existing was causing the entirety of existence to warp and would have eventually caused the end of everything.

Revanchiste

Revanchiste

trexalfa
Odin snaps his fingers, the 40k galaxy implodes. The Warp suffers the same fate, only it is Death the one doing it (for reference, see the Cancerverse and how the Many Angled Ones, Shuma Gorath's peers, were one shotted).

Oh gawd, the wank hurts. Metaversal Ynnead...

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
I have top say.. It is an evidence there is chaos god that exist behind teh warp.. They are shapless.... And they "born" (begin to manifest themself) in the warp if emotion begin to flow. They reflect the world...
It is describe that chaos don't know the concept of space and time and ad that chaos godds ever existed so I assume that the author of this text is talking about chaos godds beyond the warp. If I follow this theory they live in a palce where space and time doesn't exist.

They are shapless except one : Tzeentch... In the warp of warhammer 40 000 universe. There is only one god that posses no true form Tzeentch (Yhea irony of teh story...) his manifestation within the warp always change... But that's just an avatr like Khorn is an avatar within the warp for a certain chaos gods that live in a place connected to a complexe metaverse.....
And who else live a place where time and space don't exist.. Well.... : tzeentch !!!! Of course tzeench.. And have you think about the possibility that the forteress of the impossible is connected to multiple version of the warp?

If chaos gods can exist elsewhere in different shapes an forms... While sharing similar traits and aspect.... without sharing same "memories"

Why not for tzeentch being the same, with teh same memories....
That's why he is the strongest... I know the concept is quite "ineffable" but explain in the warhammer 40 000 universe.


+Tzeench plan never fail and tzeench is able to realize the impossible.... That's mean Tzeench against an army of being more powerfull than him can still win.. Even if odds are at 0% chance of wining..... Tzeentch canrealize the impossible som that's mean Tzeetch always posses a chance to win...

Tzeentch like many chaos godds is able to absorb and eat other gods and godlike beings... And have even face the emperor of Mankind who within the wwarp can basicly rape chuck norris himself... Actualy The emepror within the warp .. Well there is actually no limit establish to his power.....
And tzeetch not only resist him but defeat him... So yhea... Don't **** with Tzeentch...

The emperor of Mankind
He even summon massif legions of gods like being just by thinking 0.0000...0001s and they where trillions of mighty warships man etc... Or mayby higer ships... Within the warp the power of the god emperor of mankind have no limits....

Tzeentch offer a totaly unfair X factor : Instant victory.. Not because he is O.P and able of mass destruction... But he is just omnipotent in pure power he is just 1-C within the warp... But in reality with his sheming capacity he just reach the 0 ranking.... He can just basicly accomplish anything by just sheming...


Like guts, is cappble of killing any demons just by going berserk...

That's a rule if his goal is victory he just have to write a plan !!!! And it will work...

No, the Chaos Gods exist in the Warp. What is this other dimension you're talking about? Are you just making things up now?

Actually, the Chaos Gods do have shapes, including Tzeentch. His form changes more, but that's a superficial characteristic. Again, the Chaos Gods live in some place outside the Warp? You better back this up with some sources or I'll be forced to conclude that you're pulling stuff out of your ass again.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that the Chaos Gods have doppelgangers?

+ Tzeentch's plans are not infallible. Nurgle, who's not exactly a bright fellow, foils his plans constantly.

Do you mean the Eldar "gods"? The problem is that the Eldar gods and the Emperor are weaklings compared to beings like Galactus. Tzeentch had to ally with the other 3 Gods and use Horus to beat the Emperor, and even then the Emperor is still alive and fighting(in a fashion). Again, you keep saying "in the Warp this, in the Warp that", but the truth is that the Warp does not and cannot magically make a non-omnipotent being omnipotent by the virtue of that being entering the Warp. The Emperor was, and never will be, omnipotent outside or inside the Warp.

The Emperor can summon legions of gods just by thinking? You're going to have to provide a source for that. The Emperor did not just think those ships into existence, they had to be built by actual people. And there were never trillions of them. Once more, the Emperor does not have limitless power. If he had, he wouldn't be a mummified corpse on a glorified life-support system.

Yea, and Galactus is 0-1. Nope, Tzeentch is still not omnipotent nor does his scheming make him omnipotent. If he could accomplish anything, Tzeentch would be the undisputed ruler of all reality. As things stand currently, he's obviously not.

Who is Guts and why is he relevant to this discussion?

Right, the plan will work unless Nurgle foils it, or the Emperor does, or some random space marine, or maybe the Inquisition...

Revanchiste
Basicly Tzeetch take pleasure to write.. he have his own taste...

Peharps in pure rawn power he is only 1-C within the warp but.. By sheming he show the ability to perform impossible feats far beyond his pure "physical" capacities. He is responsible for everything that happen in the warhammer 40 000 universe.

His victory over the emperor of mankind is a feat that show that he is able to accomplish far more things than his pure psychic capacity used in a "khorne fashion" could do...
Even more he make him dance on his tune. He take his time an let his foe hope victory.


When tzeentch plan is written his foe have already lost.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Basicly Tzeetch take pleasure to write.. he have his own taste...

Peharps in pure rawn power he is only 1-C within the warp but.. By sheming he show the ability to perform impossible feats far beyond his pure "physical" capacities. He is responsible for everything that happen in the warhammer 40 000 universe.

His victory over the emperor of mankind is a feat that show that he is able to accomplish far more things than his pure psychic capacity used in a "khorne fashion" could do...
Even more he make him dance on his tune. He take his time an let his foe hope victory.


When tzeentch plan is written his foe have already lost.

No, he's not behind everything in the WH40K universe. He did not even exist during the War in Heaven and other pivotal events in the history of the galaxy, like the birth of the Emperor.

The rest of your post is basically unsubstantiated nonsense and wanking so I'm not going to bother responding.

ArtificialGlory

Revanchiste

Revanchiste
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
No, he's not behind everything in the WH40K universe. He did not even exist during the War in Heaven and other pivotal events in the history of the galaxy, like the birth of the Emperor.

The rest of your post is basically unsubstantiated nonsense and wanking so I'm not going to bother responding.


But Since he find a way to manifest himself in the warhammer 40 000 universe..

ArtificialGlory

Revanchiste
Unquoted evrsion :

@jwwprod: Too bad he had planned for creed to win, so that he will allow his over confidence to get the better of him, thus luring his troops into a crushing defeat and furthering chaos's goal while gaining more followers to those whom surrendered their will to tzeentch, allowing him to hunt for pieces of his staff thus being able to almost increase his product the staff by another few thousand years due to a few last minute plans allowing him to get what he always wanted at a lesser time span, thus allowing creed to fail in shame so that others can sprout from creed thus luring more troops into the battlefield against tzeentch and chaos thus allowing even more followers to help him find the pieces of his staff, all while only putting a few thoughts into this plan allowing his to slowly again become more powerful to deal with nurgle's sack lovers and become the best there is for a brief second to only again get more forces due to the people whom took creed's place that had failed against the great might chaos god tzeentch. With that in mind his forces grow as so =

All things bear His influence... All destiny is seen by Him... The Great Sorcerer, The Changer of Ways, the name is immaterial. He is the greatest mind that ever was or ever shall be. His Eye watches all things, as He plots in all directions. Brother You have burned Prospero damned my Legion and destroyed everything that I have fought for. Know now that I do not only fight to avenge Prospero but to redeem myself for not fighting for her in her hour of need. On this day the souls of Prospero shall sleep well knowing their murderer has met justice on this day you will pay for your ignorance on this day my Legion will get the revenge they deserve. On this day the Emperor loses another son so come brother now and forever let us end thisWe we have our revenge for the Burning of Prospero, for we are The Thousand Sons! I was there when the Wolves, blinded by their hate and the deciet of Horus, decended on our planet. Wolves of Russ... I will burn you all!!! And so you to shall be Dust!

AAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS PLANNED!



So basicly he seem to loose but he always win...

ArtificialGlory

Revanchiste
You say blabla I missunderstood etc.. O.K may I look like a ****ing idiot.. But I am not..
One day I found that Revan was able to summon lightnings from the sky and controlling the elements the rakkatas talked about elementary magic it was on a youtube video... latter I couldn find the video again when I was needed to proove that Revan was higly advanced in TK via later environement.

But after month of reasearch I found my focking dam quote. So be patient....

Like Revan being teached by Vitiate himself :
http://assiste.free.fr/kotor_2/personnage_revan.html
I know when I'm not stupid...
I check my sources in multiples languages and it's hard to find the exact english quote sometimes. So fporgive me...

But I have a character able to salin the emperor of man kind a guy who solo the entire Green Lantern Corps with ease....

And Ynnead could easly kill galactus and many character at the same level...
And Ynnead not even born it mean the eldar still alive !!!

I'm reliying on X-Factor always.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Unquoted evrsion :

@jwwprod: Too bad he had planned for creed to win, so that he will allow his over confidence to get the better of him, thus luring his troops into a crushing defeat and furthering chaos's goal while gaining more followers to those whom surrendered their will to tzeentch, allowing him to hunt for pieces of his staff thus being able to almost increase his product the staff by another few thousand years due to a few last minute plans allowing him to get what he always wanted at a lesser time span, thus allowing creed to fail in shame so that others can sprout from creed thus luring more troops into the battlefield against tzeentch and chaos thus allowing even more followers to help him find the pieces of his staff, all while only putting a few thoughts into this plan allowing his to slowly again become more powerful to deal with nurgle's sack lovers and become the best there is for a brief second to only again get more forces due to the people whom took creed's place that had failed against the great might chaos god tzeentch. With that in mind his forces grow as so =

All things bear His influence... All destiny is seen by Him... The Great Sorcerer, The Changer of Ways, the name is immaterial. He is the greatest mind that ever was or ever shall be. His Eye watches all things, as He plots in all directions. Brother You have burned Prospero damned my Legion and destroyed everything that I have fought for. Know now that I do not only fight to avenge Prospero but to redeem myself for not fighting for her in her hour of need. On this day the souls of Prospero shall sleep well knowing their murderer has met justice on this day you will pay for your ignorance on this day my Legion will get the revenge they deserve. On this day the Emperor loses another son so come brother now and forever let us end thisWe we have our revenge for the Burning of Prospero, for we are The Thousand Sons! I was there when the Wolves, blinded by their hate and the deciet of Horus, decended on our planet. Wolves of Russ... I will burn you all!!! And so you to shall be Dust!

AAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS PLANNED!



So basicly he seem to loose but he always win...

So Tzeentch was able to trick a mortal man? Well, that's a start, but it's still a very far cry indeed from tricking a cosmic being such as Galactus.
Originally posted by Revanchiste
You say blabla I missunderstood etc.. O.K may I look like a ****ing idiot.. But I am not..
One day I found that Revan was able to summon lightnings from the sky and controlling the elements the rakkatas talked about elementary magic it was on a youtube video... latter I couldn find the video again when I was needed to proove that Revan was higly advanced in TK via later environement.

But after month of reasearch I found my focking dam quote. So be patient....

Like Revan being teached by Vitiate himself :
http://assiste.free.fr/kotor_2/personnage_revan.html
I know when I'm not stupid...
OK... I guess?

Revanchiste
You say blabla I missunderstood etc.. O.K may I look like a ****ing idiot.. But I am not..
One day I found that Revan was able to summon lightnings from the sky and controlling the elements the rakkatas talked about elementary magic it was on a youtube video... latter I couldn find the video again when I was needed to proove that Revan was higly advanced in TK via later environement.

But after month of reasearch I found my focking dam quote. So be patient....

Like Revan being teached by Vitiate himself :
http://assiste.free.fr/kotor_2/personnage_revan.html
I know when I'm not stupid...
I check my sources in multiples languages and it's hard to find the exact english quote sometimes. So fporgive me...

But I have a character able to salin the emperor of man kind a guy who solo the entire Green Lantern Corps with ease....

And Ynnead could easly kill galactus and many character at the same level...
And Ynnead not even born it mean the eldar still alive !!!

I'm reliying on X-Factor always.


"
Tzeentch did not manifest himself in the WH40K universe, he was created by the collective thoughts and emotions of the Milky Way galaxy's sentient beings. Just like the other Chaos Gods and daemons." that could be true for Khorne or some other chaos gods. Who are basicly completly immortal....
Well except for Ynnead who say : "**** the X factor it's not gonna to save you anyway"
It is said an resaid chaos god are entities that have ever lived. It is clear that the warp is connected to multiple universe but there is diferent versions of the warp itself.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
I check my sources in multiples languages and it's hard to find the exact english quote sometimes. So fporgive me...

But I have a character able to salin the emperor of man kind a guy who solo the entire Green Lantern Corps with ease....

And Ynnead could easly kill galactus and many character at the same level...
And Ynnead not even born it mean the eldar still alive !!!

I'm reliying on X-Factor always.


"
Tzeentch did not manifest himself in the WH40K universe, he was created by the collective thoughts and emotions of the Milky Way galaxy's sentient beings. Just like the other Chaos Gods and daemons." that could be true for Khorne or some other chaos gods. Who are basicly completly immortal....
Well except for Ynnead who say : "**** the X factor it's not gonna to save you anyway"
It is said an resaid chaos god are entities that have ever lived. It is clear that the warp is connected to multiple universe but there is diferent versions of the warp itself.

Alright, I will be waiting patiently for the quotes.

How can Ynnead easily kill Galactus when it does not even exist yet? When we don't even know how power Ynnead is even going to be? Supposedly powerful enough to kill Slaanesh, but Slaanesh is the weakest God so that's not saying very much.

What X-Factor?

Got any concrete proof of that?

Revanchiste
X-Factors are factors that could change the course of victory even when all odds are against the winners.
For example : A guy is 100 000 000 times more powerfull than his opponent.. But that's not a stomp his opponent have the abilities, to reflect and deflect any wattack thank to a mystical power. And even send it back to his opponent.

Ynnead can kill a chaos gods.. And not only the manifestation in the warp.. The chaos gods himself forever... The describtio of his powerare just astonishing, I mean with Ynnead death won't be afraid of Chuck Norris anymore. He is able to defeat and erase any rank character forever, even back in the past and can kill him in an entire multiverse..
He is just cappble of destroying the universe or more an entire metaverse.

They are factor that could bring victory via other way than pure raw power.

And do not forget :
1-A: Metaverse level+:

Characters that that have no dimensional limitations, and are beyond scientific definition, the realm of metaphysics.

Basically it means that an object is outside of all concepts of time and space. This is something completely formless, abstract, metaphysical and transcendental. The usual scale does not make sense against a beyond dimensional object. Such beings can not be affected by destruction within the dimensions of time and space, or physical matter and energy. This "Space" in which there is no dimension can be the background for any dimensional space. I.e. there exists an infinite number of imaginary dimensions. Within such a dimensionless "space" you can place any dimensional structure (even an infinite-dimensional Hilbert space), because there are no restrictions for dimensions.

Chaos gods exist at Metaverse level. Tzeentch himself live at Metaverse level +.
Their manifestation in the warp is 1-C : Copmlexe multiverse level..

Revanchiste

Revanchiste
Arianka Illuminas and Solkan are goods of order !! Finaly found their name !!!

StealthRanger
Many beings in Marvel on even Silver Surfer's tier can solo DBZ too, so not sure why he's bringing up GEoM being able to solo it as if it were that big a deal in this thread

Revanchiste
I'vz an excuse : I'am a black homosexual mexican metrosexual that livce near and echangist nightclub and I smoke Bob marley car fuel everyday. And I'm musilm.
How dare you to tell that I'm wrong racist !

ArtificialGlory

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Arianka Illuminas and Solkan are goods of order !! Finaly found their name !!!

These are gods from Warhammer Fantasy. They don't exist in WH40K.

KingD19
You've gotta kinda respect his refusal to accept that none of this is right on his end.

Revanchiste
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
These are gods from Warhammer Fantasy. They don't exist in WH40K.

They existed or existed, they just get rapped by chaos and have just quasi no adepts, so their power are pretty low...

They are godds they don't die..... If Chaos loose and order came back so those gods will be powerfull again...

Actualy in warhammer 40 000 they lost their fame nobody know them anymore...

I think they get absorbed by the god emperor of mankind mayby....

I try to surscribe to a forum where there is a lot of Warhammer 40 000 fan that could searche quote for me. But the system of validation is broken...


**** it I will go :
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Ynnead
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/God- Emperor_of_Mankind#The_possible_death_of_the_Emper
or

Revanchiste
"Tzeentch, (pronounced ZI-nch) known as Tchar, Chen the Deceiver, the Troll Master, Cheenzh, the Raven God, the Trickster, the Cheap Nyarlathotep Ripoff and 9992 other names is the Chaos God of change, lies, Ambition, mutation, Machiavelli, politics, magic, trolls, lulz, lawyers and general weird shit.

He was born some time in the renaissance out of the minds of the human race and the Eldar, so he probably came to be in the 1600's or so in 40k. In Warhammer Fantasy he already existed before the world like the other Chaos Gods, and the Old Ones actively tried to prevent Daemons from ever successfully invading the world by creating the different races of the game in an attempt to find something that could cheese Daemons in every battle until the very Warp Gates that the Old Ones used to come to the planet in the first place collapsed forming miniature Eyes of Terror at the poles of the world (Just as planned). He is said to have an affinity for Ravens amongst the Norse tribes, and Condors amongst Kurgan nomads. There's no real picture for Tzeentch since the weird bastard always changes his appearance every time he sits for his yearbook photo. Some of the more memorable appearances have been: an opaline serpent constantly slithering in-place; a no-neck blue greater daemon with a skin pocked with faces that each repeat what the main head just said with different emphasis or tone; a rainbow-hued cloud of mist that speaks by casting echoes off nearby structures without making the original sound; a featureless green-skinned human in an archaic grey suit with the words "NO PICTURE AVAILABLE" suspended in the air where his face would be; and perhaps the most prominent, a giant imp with two penises growing out of its head. No, srsly. Unless..he could be Slaane-..*URGLBURGL* "


http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Morai-Heg


Tzeentch also has has direct relations with Morai-Heg who is a goddess of prophesy who can actively change fate at her will. Morai-Heg is a True Neutral kind of being who ****s with everyone's plans in ways that end up with them indebted to her one way or another. Usually because she manipulates things in a way to force you to come to her to undo the change she already made (you don't know she did this in the first place) and make a third result, which someone else probably asked for due to a change someone else made and...well, let's just summarize it as "Everyone's plans are all going according to plan".

So it say that Tzeench can change fate and destiny... That's kinda O.P to be able to change the outcome of a battle just like that...
Tzeentch finaly "eat her" before that Slaanesh get her.. And all of that in secret...

You cannot fight the troll :
"Tzeentch will always be three steps ahead of you; he out-dicks Eldrad, The Laughing God, both God Emprahs, and the Deceiver hands down. Just an example: He tricked Slaanesh into having a beef with Khorne which the former lost. Why did he do it? He did it for the lulz. "

trooll on the net is like Chaos.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
They existed or existed, they just get rapped by chaos and have just quasi no adepts, so their power are pretty low...

They are godds they don't die..... If Chaos loose and order came back so those gods will be powerfull again...

Actualy in warhammer 40 000 they lost their fame nobody know them anymore...

I think they get absorbed by the god emperor of mankind mayby....

I try to surscribe to a forum where there is a lot of Warhammer 40 000 fan that could searche quote for me. But the system of validation is broken...


**** it I will go :
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Ynnead
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/God- Emperor_of_Mankind#The_possible_death_of_the_Emper
or
So do you have any proof at all that these gods ever even existed in WH40K? Like, are their names ever even mentioned? Even if they did exist, they would make absolutely no difference in the fight.

Originally posted by Revanchiste
"Tzeentch, (pronounced ZI-nch) known as Tchar, Chen the Deceiver, the Troll Master, Cheenzh, the Raven God, the Trickster, the Cheap Nyarlathotep Ripoff and 9992 other names is the Chaos God of change, lies, Ambition, mutation, Machiavelli, politics, magic, trolls, lulz, lawyers and general weird shit.

He was born some time in the renaissance out of the minds of the human race and the Eldar, so he probably came to be in the 1600's or so in 40k. In Warhammer Fantasy he already existed before the world like the other Chaos Gods, and the Old Ones actively tried to prevent Daemons from ever successfully invading the world by creating the different races of the game in an attempt to find something that could cheese Daemons in every battle until the very Warp Gates that the Old Ones used to come to the planet in the first place collapsed forming miniature Eyes of Terror at the poles of the world (Just as planned). He is said to have an affinity for Ravens amongst the Norse tribes, and Condors amongst Kurgan nomads. There's no real picture for Tzeentch since the weird bastard always changes his appearance every time he sits for his yearbook photo. Some of the more memorable appearances have been: an opaline serpent constantly slithering in-place; a no-neck blue greater daemon with a skin pocked with faces that each repeat what the main head just said with different emphasis or tone; a rainbow-hued cloud of mist that speaks by casting echoes off nearby structures without making the original sound; a featureless green-skinned human in an archaic grey suit with the words "NO PICTURE AVAILABLE" suspended in the air where his face would be; and perhaps the most prominent, a giant imp with two penises growing out of its head. No, srsly. Unless..he could be Slaane-..*URGLBURGL* "


http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Morai-Heg


Tzeentch also has has direct relations with Morai-Heg who is a goddess of prophesy who can actively change fate at her will. Morai-Heg is a True Neutral kind of being who ****s with everyone's plans in ways that end up with them indebted to her one way or another. Usually because she manipulates things in a way to force you to come to her to undo the change she already made (you don't know she did this in the first place) and make a third result, which someone else probably asked for due to a change someone else made and...well, let's just summarize it as "Everyone's plans are all going according to plan".

So it say that Tzeench can change fate and destiny... That's kinda O.P to be able to change the outcome of a battle just like that...
Tzeentch finaly "eat her" before that Slaanesh get her.. And all of that in secret...

You cannot fight the troll :
"Tzeentch will always be three steps ahead of you; he out-dicks Eldrad, The Laughing God, both God Emprahs, and the Deceiver hands down. Just an example: He tricked Slaanesh into having a beef with Khorne which the former lost. Why did he do it? He did it for the lulz. "

trooll on the net is like Chaos.
There are several problems with this article:
1. It doesn't cite any official sources.
2. It doesn't actually back your claim that Tzeentch is in any way omnipotent. Morai-Heg is just another one of those Eldar gods that have more in-universe myths about them than concrete information. She obviously doesn't have the power to change fate to an omnipotent degree, otherwise she wouldn't have been ****ed over by Chaos. Either way, Marvel's cosmic beings can alter fate as well so this doesn't really help.
3. It actually confirms my claim that the Chaos Gods are not timeless: "He was born some time in the renaissance out of the minds of the human race and the Eldar, so he probably came to be in the 1600's or so in 40k."

Eldrad, The Laughing God, God Emperor, the Deceiver, Slaanesh, and Khorne have all one thing in common: they are not even a fraction as powerful or possess the kind of Cosmic Awareness that, for example, Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet has.

Revanchiste
"That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the material universe. In the Warp, things are different, for the Immaterium is not bound by linear time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. As his rival gods reckon it, Slannesh has always existed in the Warp, and yet has never existed at all"

Yeesss yess yeeeeeeeeeeeeeesss in your face !!!!


Thoughts can destroy or create thousands of universes in the warp

"Here in the Great Ocean, he could be whatever he wanted to be; nothing was forbidden and anything was possible.

Worlds flashed past him as he hurtled through the swelling tides of colour, light and dimensions without name. The roiling chaos of the aether was a playground for titanic forces, where entire universes could be created and destroyed with a random thought. How many trillions of potential lives were birthed and snuffed out just by thinking such things?"

Pg.712 A Thousand Sons

Chaos is older than time

All around him, he could hear the sounds of the future, of warfare and death. The thought that he shared the guilt of the destruction of the Emperor’s dream was the greatest shame and sorrow he had ever known.

An end to it all would be a blessed relief.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Revanchiste
"That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the material universe. In the Warp, things are different, for the Immaterium is not bound by linear time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. As his rival gods reckon it, Slannesh has always existed in the Warp, and yet has never existed at all"

Yeesss yess yeeeeeeeeeeeeeesss in your face !!!!

Where is that quote from? Anyway, the chronology of the material universe and the Warp must be linked in some way because the Eye of Terror appeared in the material universe precisely when Slaanesh was born in the Warp. Also, daemons/Chaos Gods would have been encountered by the Old Ones during the War in Heaven if they were indeed timeless and had always existed. This was not the case, of course.

Revanchiste
Codex !!!

Chaos is older than time.

"Anyway, the chronology of the material universe and the Warp must be linked in some way because"

Better try to predict Malal comportement than trying to comprehend how the immaterium and materium are linked.....

Because you are refereing to the Materium timeline... But in the warp Slaanesh ever existed.

The immaterium timline is kinda ****ed up...

The problem is that they ever existed.. And never existed.. schrodinger's cat. Wanted dead or alive man !!!

Revanchiste
Schrodinger's Slaanesh/Chaos

That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the material universe. In the Warp, things are different, for the Immaterium is not bound by linear time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. As his rival gods reckon it, Slannesh has always existed in the Warp, and yet has never existed at all

-Codex: Chaos Daemons 6th Edition pg. 16

That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the real universe; in the Warp, things are different. The Realm of Chaos has no true time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cuase then effect. In essence, Slaanesh has always exsted in the Warp, and yet had never existed.

-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition, pg.7

The sheer mind-boggling impossibiliry of the Warp defies

explanation, and those who attempt to delve further into

understanding its ways inevitably slip into madness. Of the

little that is known is that Warp space does not conform to the

laws of physics as we know them.

-Warhamer 40k 6th Edition Rulebook, pg. 144

It is a hurning ocean of chaos, raw emotion and madness given form, where the laws of physics, time and nature are meaningless concepts and nothing is as it seems.

-Warhammer 40k 4th Edition Rulebook pg. 122

In warp space there is no time, no distances, only a constantly flowing stream of immaterium.

-Battle Fleet Gothic Rulebook, pg. 85

It is a roiling, howling maelstorm of force and energy, utterly unpredictable and not subject to the rational laws and linear flow of time in the way that physical reality is.

-Horus Heresy Book 1: Betrayal, pg. 16

Beyond the boundaries of physical space, unrestricted by time or casuality, there is a dimension utterly incomprehensible to mortal minds.

-Codex: Chaos Daemons 6th Edition pg. 6

Beyond the boundaries of physical space, unrestricted by time or casuality, there is a dimension utterly incomprehensible to mortal minds.

-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 4

Timeless and ever-shifting, this psychic visionscape is known as the Realm of Chaos

-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 6

The Realm of Chaos, also known as the Warp, the Immaterium or Warpspace, is a dimension parallel to our own, a universe devoid of matter and life, without laws of time and space.

--Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 6

Revanchiste

ArtificialGlory
Well, here comes the avalanche of ridiculous hyperbole, misunderstandings of in-universe characters, and outright contradictions. I've never denied that the Warp is a very strange place to mortal minds, but we're talking about Marvel characters who can wipe out entire universes(and I mean, actual universes, not somebody's thoughts in the Warp) that have their own dimensions that are no less strange than the Warp. And they've actually been shown doing so.

Hell, even if we admit that you can create entire universes in the Warp just by thinking, that means that somebody like Galactus in the Warp would still be exponentially more powerful than any Chaos God, or the Emperor, or anyone else. For example, the Emperor's psychic presence(the Astronomicon) covers less than a galaxy. Galactus's psychic presence can easily cover an entire universe.

ArtificialGlory

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>