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They're only allowed to use their TK. Who takes this?

Battle takes place in a wide area full of buildings, trees and plenty of stuff to rip apart and throw at their opponents.

Nihilus. Vader's TK skills shows his raw power in the force and he's definately top 10 material. Nihilus however has shown MUCH higher levels of force energy, ripping an entire fleet from the mass shadow generator, which causes Gravity to be increased n a planet until it's crushed, and then later power all those ships and put them back together. I mean hwat.

lol Vader gets destroyed. Nihilus is most probably the GOAT when it comes to TK.

Do we have any proof of Nihilus's alleged TK prowess?

Yes.

Refresh my memory.

Loading screen, Tobin, Visas, mentioned in a few other sources.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Loading screen,

As I recall, this never confirmed that Nihilus's powers retrieved any vessel from the mass shadows of Malachor, let alone in such a manner as is relevant to a fight here. Especially when one considers that Malachor is a potent nexus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Tobin, Visas, mentioned in a few other sources.

Indeed?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
As I recall, this never confirmed that Nihilus's powers retrieved any vessel from the mass shadows of Malachor, let alone in such a manner as is relevant to a fight here. Especially when one considers that Malachor is a potent nexus.

Except it did, saying he pulled his entire fleet from the wells, and being on nexus does't turn you into a god. He also held his ship together afterwards until his death.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
As I recall, this never confirmed that Nihilus's powers retrieved any vessel from the mass shadows of Malachor, let alone in such a manner as is relevant to a fight here. Especially when one considers that Malachor is a potent nexus.

You recall wrong.


Originally posted by The_Tempest
Indeed?

Yep.

Then you should be confident in providing the screen shot and defending your interpretation of it. excellent

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except it did, saying he pulled his entire fleet from the wells,

Would you mind providing the screenshot?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
and being on nexus does't turn you into a god.

Oh? Malachor is a particularly unique nexus in that it made Sion invulnerable and enhanced Kreia's precognition to such an extent that she could, on her deathbed, predict the outcome of specific individuals and organizations even thousands of years into the future on command. It wouldn't surprise me if Nihilus's powers were augmented exponentially there.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He also held his ship together afterwards until his death.

Well that certainly explains why the Exile, Canderous, and Visas were all jettisoned into space the second they cut Nihilus down.

Oh, wait.

hahahahahahahahahahaha

http://media.tumblr.com/382b2e74510f0c02842e939ff5683e54/tumblr_inline_n8lo2mrqkx1rbt4gq.gif

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Would you mind providing the screenshot?


http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/531744890167346386/43F1F22B12064D17D5D4B4321939F003E9A279E7/1024x768.resizedimage

So did Korriban....

No questioning that, but I doubt it gave him the ability to pull cruisers from gravity vortexes.


Your idea of how space works is a little off based, but the characters in game speak about how the ship is barely even held together and shouldn't even be able to stay together, let alone run.

Nihilus being on a nexus doesn't matter, since he used the ship to escape the planet. So at some point the nexus would stop being a factor as he lifted it into space.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I'll go get one.

Good.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So did Korriban....

What's Korriban?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No questioning that, but I doubt it gave him the ability to pull cruisers from gravity vortexes.

You sure 'bout that? Malachor seems to help otherwise weak feebs like Nihilus, Traya, and Sion out a lot. It's like Force Welfare. uhuh

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Your idea of how space works is a little off based, but the characters in game speak about how the ship is barely even held together and shouldn't even be able to stay together, let alone run.

Ah, so it went from Nihilus holds the ship together to Nihilus mostly holds the ship together? Your tiny concession is not lost on me. The fact remains that if Nihilus is the only force keeping the Ravager together, the ship should have disintegrated when he died, especially with all the various crew members and infiltrators running around inside it. That it didn't is proof enough that his influence over its structural integrity has been overstated.

Temp, you know that in space the ship wouldn't immediate blow apart. Stop trolling, you already know all this shit.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
*SNIP*
You've fallen pretty far. Nihilus does have that effect on people. Or would you like a screen of a loading screen saying that too?

You seem bothered by the fact that I'm pimpsmacking your boy and you can't do anything about it. The helplessness must infuriate you. Either way, you've made a commitment to procure a screenshot. Get to work.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Temp, you know that in space the ship wouldn't immediate blow apart. Stop trolling, you already know all this shit.

Why not? With all the forces acting inside, there's reason to believe it would collapsed.

Most of the crew were dead and they'd already set the charges and started evacuating by that point. The weight of the people inside obviously just wasn't enough to affect it. You're just reaching, speculating and trying to nitpick something you don't like. It's sad.

And he already posted the screenshot 10 minutes ago. Try scrolling up next time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Most of the crew were dead and they'd already set the charges and started evacuating by that point. The weight of the people inside obviously just wasn't enough to affect it. You're just reaching, speculating and trying to nitpick something you don't like. It's sad.

Or obviously Nihilus's influence over the vessel was overstated. And again, remind me of the need for explosive charges in this instance when killing Nihilus is enough to ensure the vessel's destruction?

Originally posted by Nephthys
And he already posted the screenshot 10 minutes ago. Try scrolling up next time.

You seem angry. excellent

I did notice the screenshot. But it's not what I asked for. I said that there exists no evidence that Nihilus's powers retrieved the Ravager from Malachor's mass shadows and that there's no proof it was done in a manner relevant to this fight. FreshestSlice said he could provide a screenshot saying as much. What he provided doesn't do that. For all we know, it was the product of a ritualized display of might and/or in collusion with surviving Sith forces on Malachor.

Out of curiosity Tempest, provided that Nihilus did do what FreshestSlice and co are claiming, are you in agreement that his TK vastly outstrips Vader's?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Or obviously Nihilus's influence over the vessel was overstated. And again, remind me of the need for explosive charges in this instance when killing Nihilus is enough to ensure the vessel's destruction?

Canderous, Tobin and Visas all back each others statements up about Nihilus' effects of the ship and it's..... erm, spaceworthiness? without his influence. Whereas the only thing indicating that he didn't hold it together is the speculation of a desperate fanboy. For some reason I think they knew more about it than you.

They didn't know he was holding it together until they'd already boarded and set the charges. And completely destroying the enemies flagship beyond repair is clearly a good tactical move regardless.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You seem angry. excellent

I did notice the screenshot. But it's not what I asked for. I said that there exists no evidence that Nihilus's powers retrieved the Ravager from Malachor's mass shadows and that there's no proof it was done in a manner relevant to this fight. FreshestSlice said he could provide a screenshot saying as much. What he provided doesn't do that. For all we know, it was the product of a ritualized display of might and/or in collusion with surviving Sith forces on Malachor.

Er, no? Mostly bored. Why are you bringing this up again? We've established this over and over again. You never win.

Nihilus is the only one credited as hauling it up in every source. And theres no "lift ship" ritual and Nihilus hasn't displayed any knowledge of rituals or sorcery or whatever. Tobin actually specifically says it was a demonstration of Nihilus' power.

Originally posted by appletonia
Out of curiosity Tempest, provided that Nihilus did do what FreshestSlice and co are claiming, are you in agreement that his TK vastly outstrips Vader's?

I can neither confirm or deny that at this time. I always like to hedge and leave myself room to return and crush you heretics in the off-chance one of you blasphemers can navigate my traps and tricks. uhuh

Originally posted by Nephthys
Canderous, Tobin and Visas all back each others statements up about Nihilus' effects of the ship and it's..... erm, spaceworthiness? without his influence.

Oh? They independently confirm that the ship couldn't possibly endure without Nihilus's infernal guidance?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whereas the only thing indicating that he didn't hold it together is the speculation of a desperate fanboy. For some reason I think they knew more about it than you.

Indeed?

Originally posted by Nephthys
They didn't know he was holding it together until they'd already boarded and set the charges. And completely destroying the enemies flagship beyond repair is clearly a good tactical move regardless.

True!

Originally posted by Nephthys
Er, no? Mostly bored. Why are you bringing this up again? We've established this over and over again. You never win.

Are you kidding? I always win; your obvious anger is proof enough of that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nihilus is the only one credited as hauling it up in every source. And theres no "lift ship" ritual and Nihilus hasn't displayed any knowledge of rituals or sorcery or whatever. Tobin actually specifically says it was a demonstration of Nihilus' power.

Cool. So every time my history book says "Hitler invaded Russia in Operation Barbarossa," that means ol' Adolf, gun in hand, was actually trudging through the snow to kill some Reds?

http://thefightingwannstaches.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/the_more_you_know_banner.jpg

I might have to take the blame for my young padawan's anger. I don't think he liked me referring to him as "co".

Originally posted by appletonia
I might have to take blame for my young padawan's anger. I don't think he liked me referring to him as "co".

He shall emerge stronger than ever through this crucible of hatred. I am strengthening him. This is merely trial by fire.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Oh? They independently confirm that the ship couldn't possibly endure without Nihilus's infernal guidance?


Yes.

Yes.


Yes.


Yes.

Yes.

Tempest doesn't sound that crazy to be honest. I do think Vader isnt even same tier with Nihilus in TK atm but I have my doubts whether the Ravager feat is as it seems or not.

Suddenly it's pulled one ship from the planet to orbit. Tut tut.

The fact that he was on a Nexus and the fact that the engines ran also lower this feat, he'd have to hold the ship together and give it a push but the engines would help a hell of a lot.

Shame, that feat had been hyped so much I believed it, until seeing that.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Oh? They independently confirm that the ship couldn't possibly endure without Nihilus's infernal guidance?

Yep.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Indeed?

Uh-huh.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
True!

Thanks.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Are you kidding? I always win; your obvious anger is proof enough of that.

I don't understand why you need to accuse me of anger every time we discuss something. You're obviously trying to start shit, I'm not gonna let myself get invested in this. I really just don't care that much.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Cool. So every time my history book says "Hitler invaded Russia in Operation Barbarossa," that means ol' Adolf, gun in hand, was actually trudging through the snow to kill some Reds?

http://thefightingwannstaches.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/the_more_you_know_banner.jpg

Hitler doesn't have telekinesis and access to insane amounts of power.

Originally posted by Selenial
Suddenly it's pulled one ship from the planet to orbit. Tut tut.

Except the entire fleet came from Malachor.

Engines don't hold ships together. It also won't help it leave a gravity vortex. It's still above anything we've seen from anyone else, ever, with TK. He'd also have to have a crew to run the ship, so the fact that he mind dominated a crew while doing it, is a feat within itself, if you believe that. I also question how you believe anyone would get inside a ship, in a vortex, to start the engines.

There's really no way to make this feat look bad.

Theres no mention of the engines functioning or helping. The loading screen says he "hauled" it from Malachor and others say he raised it, tore it and pulled it, not flew it.

In fact, iirc one source says he made it serviceable after pulling it out.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's still above anything we've seen from anyone else, ever, with TK.

I would say Luke Skywalker and Kyp Durron manipulating Dovin basals are probably the greatest demonstrations of TK, but it's not at all consistent with the power they usually display, so ultimately I would have to say Nihilus was the TK GOAT.

I do find it funny how often people try to make Nihilus out to be some kind of one trick pony with his sever ability when on top of that he's also perhaps the single greatest practitioner of the quintissential Jedi ability.

Tulak Hord ripping a 300 meter long capital ship out of the sky is also comparable imo. Though not equal.

I've got your 300 meter warship right here.

(I'm grabbing my crotch.)

That must be really inconvenient.

Originally posted by appletonia
I would say Luke Skywalker and Kyp Durron manipulating Dovin basals are probably the greatest demonstrations of TK, but it's not at all consistent with the power they usually display, so ultimately I would have to say Nihilus was the TK GOAT.
It's comparable, though I respect Nihilus' more.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That must be really inconvenient.

You'd think but your butthole is pretty accommodating. 131

I guess. I did once stuff the entire cast of The Next Generation up there, with room to spare.

So... Number One is where you do your Number Twos? haermm

Also a lot of people overlook the fact that he didn't just pull the ships together, which in of itself is a monstrous feat, he also powered all the ships with his own force energies, hyperdrive and all. Now I'm no expert when it comes to KOTOR ships, however ships like an Imperial Star Desstroyer have power outputs equal to Small Stars.

Btw, the nexus argument has less weight when you consider that Malachor is a potent gravity well. So that should more than cancel out any dumb nexus amp.

The Gravity fluctuates, so it could very well have even been less than standard.

I don't remember that.

Yeah, I don't recall that either. Just that the mass shadow generator changes the gravity to the point it crushes the planet.

Really? Almost 100% sure it's either said to fluctuate, or shifting anomalies or something like that.

Well, I've been putting off replaying the game for a while, time to start. Been too long.

So how are we feeling about this with the recently added canon feats?

Vader

Nihilus.

Nihilus still. Easily.

Vader. Nihilus is still massively overblown.

Originally posted by Selenial
Vader. Nihilus is still massively overblown.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Nihilus keep his ship going with TK alone? I only know of one other feat Vader has done that is as impressive but even then Nihilus's feat is constant while Vader's feat occurred and ended in an instant.

I could cede that Vader has more control and precision in his use of TK but not more power.

Nihilus' best feat was likely amplified by an extremely potent nexus, but being able to hold a ship together with seemingly zero difficulty its probably beyond Vader.

Nihilus' ship was intact after he died though.

Even in death Nihilus is > Vader.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nihilus' best feat was likely amplified by an extremely potent nexus,

In a gravity well.

Before he consumed Katarr and other planets.

Originally posted by Sinious
Nihilus' ship was intact after he died though.

A plot hole in Star Wars??? In Kotor 2????? WAAAAAAAAAAAA?????????

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nihilus' best feat was likely amplified by an extremely potent nexus, but being able to hold a ship together with seemingly zero difficulty its probably beyond Vader.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Trocity
Even in death Nihilus is > Vader. Originally posted by Nephthys
A plot hole in Star Wars??? In Kotor 2????? WAAAAAAAAAAAA????????? lulz