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Can someone clear this up for me? If it is true, the I for one am upset that all of these years I've spent studying star wars has been a waste of time...

It's true.

But it should only bother you if you're invested in immaterial and insignificant stories: like those of Revan, Bane, Vitiate, or Nihilus. And Ragnos, especially Ragnos.

They preserved the story of the great Darth Sidious, so all is well.

Don't forget Exar Kun, Darth Malgus, Darth Krayt, Darth Caedus, Darth Plagueis (his novel) and Vader's exploits during the Dark times.

If I could get my hands on Filoni, Lucas, or that other guy whose name I can't remember. I'd..I'd...

http://cdn.sheknows.com/filter/l/gallery/james_van_der_beek_cry.jpg

Sacrifices must be made for His glory.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070812010456/darth/images/5/59/POWAHHH.jpg

It hurts...so much....

Yeah I wish they kept Vader's stuff canon.

I'm going to laugh when episode 7 retcons Sidious.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's true.

But it should only bother you if you're invested in immaterial and insignificant stories: like those of Revan, Bane, Vitiate, or Nihilus. And Ragnos, especially Ragnos.

They preserved the story of the great Darth Sidious, so all is well.

Darth Sidious inst all that great. Sure he is powerful but everything was laid out before him on a silver platter by Bane and Plageuis and all the Banite sith inbetween. It wasn't HIS plan, he was merely the one who finally finished it

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Darth Sidious inst all that great. Sure he is powerful but everything was laid out before him on a silver platter by Bane and Plageuis and all the Banite sith inbetween. It wasn't HIS plan, he was merely the one who finally finished it

Well to be fair, he was the only one to fully eradicate the republic, hunt the Jedi to near extinction and establish a galactic empire that lasted for years. so there's that.

Originally posted by red8
I'm going to laugh when episode 7 retcons Sidious.
Retcon Sidious? Wut?

Sidious finished and executed the plan, and that is not something to be overlooked. However, claiming that as Sidious's accomplishment alone is horrendously wrong, given that it was the combined effort of 30 Sith and 1000 years that built it.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Sidious finished and executed the plan, and that is not something to be overlooked. However, claiming that as Sidious's accomplishment alone is horrendously wrong, given that it was the combined effort of 30 Sith and 1000 years that built it.

Ooh, do tell.

Up until the end of TPM he was riding on the coattails of his master and all of his predecessors and even after that he was only carrying out someone else's plan. Still Kudos for manipulating the jedi even though, judging by how blind the jedi of that era seemed to be, I feel like I could have done that and I have a shitty pokerface. I probably would start giggling to myself the first time I tried convincing a jedi to go on a suicide mission, and the worst part about it is, I would still get away with it.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Up until the end of TPM he was riding on the coattails of his master and all of his predecessors and even after that he was only carrying out someone else's plan.



Bane didn't do shit and there's absolutely no evidence that anyone in between him and Plagueis accomplished anything. Plagueis definitely deserves credit for financing a lot of Palpatine's schemes, but per Darth Maul: Lockdown, Plagueis "knew only the broadest generalities about Darth Sidious's ongoing work to destabilize the Outer Rim planets and orchestrate the Galactic Civil War."

Based on all available evidence, to say that Palpatine was responsible for only 90% the Banite victory would be too conservative.

Anyway, I'm going to bed so you and Emperordmb should feel free to make your case/s. I'll return on the morrow to crush them. excellent

I'd like to point out that I am not saying that Sidious had a small part to play in the Grand Plan, merely that he was not its only architect. Bane set up the order, and for a thousand years 30 Dark Lords gathered wealth knowledge and resources to pass to the next generation as they destabilized the Republic more and more. To suggest that Sith like Bane, Tenebrous, and Plagueis should only be footnotes in the Sith Vitcory is to undervalue their contributions greatly.

Me: Only if you do this can the republic truly be safe

Jedi: Are you sure this is that important? I would be giving up my life

Me: Yes it is that important

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmWBIT7IgAAGYkv.jpg:large

Also, there's *one* novel released in the new canon. Rebel Dawn or something like that.

All future novels will be in the new canon.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Bane didn't do shit and there's absolutely no evidence that anyone in between him and Plagueis accomplished anything.

"You cant die yet, Zannah thought bitterly, chewing on her lip. There's so much more you have to teach me!

Her Master's power was still far greater than her own. She had the potential to surpass Bane-he had told her so himself-but right now he still possessed a strength she could only aspire to. There were secrets he had not yet shared with her, keys to unlocking even greater power than she now possessed. If he died, that knowledge was lost. It was possible she might one day succeed in discovering it on her own; with Bane as her Master, success was assured.

But what he still had to teach her went far beyond her ability to harness the energies of the dark side. For the past decade she had been focused only on learning to control her own power. Over that same time, her Master had begun to assemble the pieces that would one day allow the Sith to rise up and rule the galaxy.

He'd created a vast network of spies and informants, but Zannah had no idea as to its true extent, or even how to contact them. He had put into motion a hundred long-range plans to slowly build their strength while weakening the Republic. Yet she was only just now beginning to understand the scope and complexity of his political machinations.

Bane was a visionary, able to see far into the future. He understood how to exploit the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of the Republic. He knew how to draw the eyes of the Jedi away from the dark side, while at the same time leading them down the first steps of the long road that would end in their complete annihilation. He could manipulate people, organizations, and governments, planting seeds that would lay dormant for years-even decades-before they burst forth.

If he died now, everything he had put into place over the last ten years died with him. Zannah would have to start at the beginning. She would have to find and train an apprentice, even as she was still learning the full extent of her own abilities. She would be stumbling blindly forward, beset by enemies on all sides. It was almost impossible to imagine she wouldn't make a mistake that would lead to her downfall... and the extinction of the Sith.

She couldn't allow that to happen. For the sake of their order, she had to keep him alive. And though Darovit might not have the knowledge and power to heal her Master, she knew someone who did. Someone who had saved his life once before."

The word I believe everyone is looking for is Kablam!

Appletonia, When you called me a troll, I was kinda iffy on my opinion of you...

but I like you

Originally posted by The Merchant
Yeah I wish they kept Vader's stuff canon.


I'm betting Rebels and other new Canon gives us loads of New and Improved Vader Awesomness. Just might take a few years. So you have to have patience!

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Appletonia, When you called me a troll, I was kinda iffy on my opinion of you...

but I like you

Why thank you!

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'd like to point out that I am not saying that Sidious had a small part to play in the Grand Plan, merely that he was not its only architect. Bane set up the order, and for a thousand years 30 Dark Lords gathered wealth knowledge and resources to pass to the next generation as they destabilized the Republic more and more. To suggest that Sith like Bane, Tenebrous, and Plagueis should only be footnotes in the Sith Vitcory is to undervalue their contributions greatly.

What contributions? Plagueis, like Dooku and Vader, certainly deserves credit for directly committing finances and/or legwork to Darth Sidious's grand scheme. But beyond that? What evidence is there that any of the Sith between Bane and Plagueis contributed in any notable way to the collapse of the Republic and the rise of the Empire? You are merely assuming facts not in evidence when the overwhelming conclusion based on all available facts is that Sidious personally orchestrated and directed the whole thing to the extent of absurd micromanagement.

Setting aside the likes of Tenebrous, Gravid, et al., who are not known to have contributed anything at all beyond mere perpetuation of the Sith line, let's turn our attention to Bane. What does Bane deserve credit for? Bane deserves credit for implementing Revan's vision of the Rule of Two (though, let's be honest: Karpyshyn really undermined Bane there in order to wank Revan in petty fashion).

That's certainly important in that it probably saved the Sith from absolute extinction, but as far as Palpatine's broader victory over the Republic and Jedi is concerned? Bane really didn't do squat. Civil war, brainwashed clone armies, dark side shrouds, emergency powers, political manipulation, propaganda? All that is attributable to Sidious.

Credit goes something like this: Sidious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dooku > Plagueis >> Vader >>>> Bane > Revan > everybody else.

Okay, clearly you are just trolling here (I think that's what the term is), but okay, I'll bite.

Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
Can someone clear this up for me? If it is true, the I for one am upset that all of these years I've spent studying star wars has been a waste of time...

How the filloffal was it "a waste of time?" Did those years spent studying Star Wars bring you enjoyment? If so, then guess what "NOT A WASTE OF TIME!"

Second, who the heck is to say what's canon? Okay, "officially" it may only be movies & TV shows, but really canon is whatever you want it to be. I love the EU novels, I love LOTF, FOTJ and others. That makes them canon to me. I don't care what a bunch of greedy corporate executives claim.

It is only a "waste of time" if you decide it is. Think for yourself, not what the executives tell you to think.

Legends canon is *still there*. It's a separate continuity now, but they didn't erase your books and games.


No, they don't send out the purge-teams to do that for another year or two ^^

Yeah I mean how many different continuities do Marvel and DC comic have.

And then the Movie Universes are seperate, and sometimes the TV Universe is again seperate.

Doesn't make enjoying any of them a waste of time.


Originally posted by The_Tempest
Plagueis, like Dooku and Vader, certainly deserves credit

Yeah damn right Dooku deserves credit.

Sidious could never have pulled it off without someone of Dooku's caliber in the looks, charm and suave department. Essential in playing the Jedi and the Galaxy for fools.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah I mean how many different continuities do Marvel and DC comic have.

Even if you count only the *big* ones, long lasting multi-book lines, DC has three (pre-crisis, post-crisis, nu52), and Marvel two (616, Ultimates).

Then there's a ton of smaller ones.



Marvel Cinematic, DCAU, plus all the one-shot shows and movies!





I do really wonder what his plan would be if Maul had lived and remained his sole apprentice!

Originally posted by Q99



I do really wonder what his plan would be if Maul had lived and remained his sole apprentice!

I think we got an idea of that from TCW Season 5.

The way Maul was ruling the Mandalorians. He wasn't their ruler by face, but he was pulling the strings.

But clearly Dooku was the better choice for that job. So I have a feeling Sidious would have replaced Maul with Dooku anyway if Maul was victorious on Naboo.

OK.... Well it makes me sad having a bookshelf full of what might as well be fan fiction....

Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
OK.... Well it makes me sad having a bookshelf full of what might as well be fan fiction....

That's stupid. Why the heck would you be "sad?" Why would these books mean anything less to you just because some twerps in business suits said some nonsense?

"Might as well be fan fiction." So what? Fan fiction is awesome. I've read fan fiction that was every bit as enjoyable as published books, or even better. I've written fan fictions that gave me far more joy than official works.

Gods, stuff like this makes me so angry I wonder if I should boycott the Sequel Trilogy altogether on principle.

Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
OK.... Well it makes me sad having a bookshelf full of what might as well be fan fiction....
Just think of it as two separate continuities.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Why the heck would you be "sad?"

The fact that the vast majority of the stories from the Legends canon presumably won't be continued? Or the fact that new material will be such a departure from the world he was already invested in? And say what you will about listening to twerps in business suits, but it's a natural psychological reaction to stop believing something's truly authentic when you are told in an official capacity that it isn't.

I don't know why people are comparing this to other reboots/alternate universes either. The vast majority of reboots that people have brought up usually haven't been for universes that told as much of a continuing storyline with a sense of progression as this one, and most alternate universe aren't completely abandoned as it seems this one will mostly be.

Originally posted by appletonia
The fact that the vast majority of the stories from the Legends canon presumably won't be continued? Or the fact that new material will be such a departure from the world he was already invested in? And say what you will about listening to twerps in business suits, but it's a natural psychological reaction to stop believing something's truly authentic when you are told in an official capacity that it isn't.
Except Lucas himself has been saying just about that for years. And honestly, if you liked it before, who cares if it's fanfiction? No one's going to fire-bomb your house and tell you to take the Star Wars name off of it.

Meant to post this before, somehow forgot to submit it...

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Fan fiction is awesome. I've read fan fiction that was every bit as enjoyable as published books, or even better.

That may be true but those are the exceptions rather than the rule. For the most part, there are higher standards and expectations for the writers of officially licenced works, and the writers are usually far more skilled, accomplished and experienced.

Fan fiction also lacks the quality of being part of a huge, shared universe that sees active collabarotion, and doesn't have the same effect of bringing large amounts of people together in fandom as official works do.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except Lucas himself has been saying just about that for years. And honestly, if you liked it before, who cares if it's fanfiction? No one's going to fire-bomb your house and tell you to take the Star Wars name off of it.

Which is one of the reasons why I've actually claimed in the past that the EU, particularly the post ROTJ stuff, never felt truly authentic to me, but it at the very least felt like a truly alive alternate universe and the closest thing we'd get to an authentic exploration of the universe outside of the movies. Now however it's secondary not just to the movies but all new content, is going to be directly contradicted by the new movies, and is presumably not going to get much more new content at all.

I think it's a little naive of a lot of you that you don't understand how somebody could be justifiably upset by this.

I think it's a little pointless to care. It's a story, and if you liked it, mission accomplished. The lack of a Disney label hardly upset me because it's always a story first, and Star Wars second. Otherwise I'd read Revan every day and watch the Phantom Menace every night.

Originally posted by appletonia
The fact that the vast majority of the stories from the Legends canon presumably won't be continued? Or the fact that new material will be such a departure from the world he was already invested in?

But that's not what he stated. He stated that he considered the (Legends) EU to be "a waste of time" and he was sad because he had a bookshelf full of "what might as well be fan fiction" (even though there is nothing wrong with fan fiction). He didn't say anything about being sad about stories not being continued.

Originally posted by appletonia
And say what you will about listening to twerps in business suits, but it's a natural psychological reaction to stop believing something's truly authentic when you are told in an official capacity that it isn't.

I didn't.

Originally posted by appletonia
I think it's a little naive of a lot of you that you don't understand how somebody could be justifiably upset by this.

I understand perfectly. Heck, I'm very angry and disappointed that we most likely won't get new stories in the Legends canon. But I certainly don't call the stories I have read a "waste of time" and I don't love those stories any less.

That's what makes me angry. He's basically saying that he doesn't value those stories anymore just because of something some executives said. Basically he's letting the executives dictate how he feels.

Originally posted by appletonia
And say what you will about listening to twerps in business suits, but it's a natural psychological reaction to stop believing something's truly authentic when you are told in an official capacity that it isn't.


George Lucas has been saying the EU isn't part of his Official canon for decades now. So I'm still surprised to see how the news shocks people. Lucas never had heavy involvement in the EU, and almost always ignored it when making new canon material, so I don't for the life of me understand why anyone would expect differently from the leadership of the new Lucasfilm under Disney.

They want to make all new stories now and would simply be too restricted by taking the whole EU as Pure Canon. They have however said writers of the new canon are free to borrow stuff from the EU, which means we may see a Grand Admiral Thrawn or a Mara Jade.

So it's really just like the Marvel Comics Cinematic Universe. It's got its own Canon distinct from the comics, but will draw ideas and characters from Marvel Comics. Which is the right decision. They can't just follow comics (or novels) continuity, because the vast majority of your general audience would be lost, and the creative team would be too restricted.

On top of that the new Lucasfilm have been good enough to be more strict with their new canon and state anything new in the comic or novel world will be true canon. And that's the only way to make it without being full of contradictions and inconsistencies, is to have all the creative teams consulting with each other from Day 1. But the way it was being done previously it was just never going to mesh.

Just to clarify, I was simply saying that it's understandable that people would be sad that Legends canon has basically been overwritten and nothing more. I also agree that it's completely understandable that Disney don't want to be limited by the old continuity when making the sequels, and that this was all inevitable and the right thing to do.



I already commented on this Power. I never claimed that the EU ever felt completely authentic, but there are different levels of authenticity and this is simply many levels lower.



The difference is that the Marvel Comics Cinematic Universe hasn't completely overwritten the comics continuity, as is the case with the sequels and Legend Canon.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I didn't.

Ok but people are different.