Who is the weakest magic user that can take out Superman

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riv6672
No prep, no BFR.

Sin I AM
Loki

TheLordofMurder
Dracula

CadenceV2
The Shadow

riv6672
Not a big turn out, but all interesting choices...

CadenceV2
Shadow wins easy. He has the pre cog to know Superman will attack him and when. He can then keep Cloud Minds to be invisible. He can then soul read to find his weaknesses. To beat Superman he just uses his effective hypno and tell Supes to give up.

Winning.

krisblaze
Hypnotise Superman? Not outside Bran's fanfic...

beatboks
Not sure I'd even class the Shadow as magic. There are plenty of instances of Superman resisting mental powers too.

During the Veitch Question mini series a very basic spiritualist had maneuvered souls in an Indian burial ground so that the building above could tap the "earth energy" and be used against Superman. his death was even foreseen. Now that classes as prep, but is shows that the level doesn't have to be great WITH prep.

riv6672
I've seen Superman both resist and fall victim to hypnosis and mind control.
Considering mind clouding is Shadow's shtick, i can see it happening.

Placidity
Not sure if The Shadow is a magic user.

But, Superman:

- Can see his shadow (duh)
- Can hear his heartbeat.
- Can hear him as soon as he speaks the hypnotic commands.

riv6672
Thats, well, debatable. Superman's super because he tanks attacks, not avoids them for the most part.
Kooky or not, people have hidden from Superman, and sneak attacked him. Not just stealth guys either.
I think its safe to say, whether or not it worked, Shadow'd get a chance to try.

CatL18
Is Superman with high showing immune to even super-powerful magic by Hell Lords in tehir realm?

riv6672
I'm no expert, but if you find out let me know.

All i can say to that in regards to this thread is, thats kind of the point of my question.

Iskandar
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Shadow wins easy. He has the pre cog to know Superman will attack him and when. He can then keep Cloud Minds to be invisible. He can then soul read to find his weaknesses. To beat Superman he just uses his effective hypno and tell Supes to give up.

Winning.

Superman is too fast if this was a straight fight he would finish it immediately before the Shadow could do anything. Just a flick on the forehead and the Shadow would be KO.

Also, the Shadow's powers are a form of mysticism that are specified to work on a man's heart and soul. It can even bring people back to like if he commands them to.

The Shadow #1

http://i.imgur.com/cMiWVeo.jpg

Where the Shadow interrogates a thug he recently killed.

The Shadow #2

http://i.imgur.com/m5kbAi2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QIewwzL.jpg

Commanding a pilot who has been peppered with bullets to stay alive long enough to land the plane they're on.

The Shadow #3

http://i.imgur.com/Ol3Z5F2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/idP24D2.jpg

Commanding an assassin back to life after shooting him in the head.

Also, even the Shadow's precognition is stated to work by tracing a person's soul to the end of its path.

The Shadow #1

http://i.imgur.com/tzLnClP.jpg

CadenceV2
Originally posted by Iskandar
Superman is too fast if this was a straight fight he would finish it immediately before the Shadow could do anything. Just a flick on the forehead and the Shadow would be KO.

Also, the Shadow's powers are a form of mysticism that are specified to work on a man's heart and soul. It can even bring people back to like if he commands them to.

The Shadow #1

http://i.imgur.com/cMiWVeo.jpg

Where the Shadow interrogates a thug he recently killed.

The Shadow #2

http://i.imgur.com/m5kbAi2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QIewwzL.jpg

Commanding a pilot who has been peppered with bullets to stay alive long enough to land the plane they're on.

The Shadow #3

http://i.imgur.com/Ol3Z5F2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/idP24D2.jpg

Commanding an assassin back to life after shooting him in the head.

Also, even the Shadow's precognition is stated to work by tracing a person's soul to the end of its path.

The Shadow #1

http://i.imgur.com/tzLnClP.jpg

I have those same scans on my respect thread on comicvine.

Shadow does no need super speed. Base on his powers he would likely know any attack by superman before this battle would even happen. His feats show this even though random things seem to happen, or random mysteries need to solve is all pure PIS when he has the feats of seeing years ahead events lol. If we go by his high end precog like showcased in the first few comics, he would already known any attack by Superman before battle.

Also I still see no reason why Shadow cannot hypno Supes easy when no one, not even soulless men in a annual were hypno by Shadows words. Nor can Superman ever detect shadow with cloud minds to attack shadow.

By feats the Shadow is very much meta unless you have specific immunty or resistance to mystic/magic/supernatural powers. Which Supes does not.

riv6672
Huh. Thats quite a resume'...

Iskandar
Originally posted by CadenceV2
I have those same scans on my respect thread on comicvine.

Shadow does no need super speed. Base on his powers he would likely know any attack by superman before this battle would even happen. His feats show this even though random things seem to happen, or random mysteries need to solve is all pure PIS when he has the feats of seeing years ahead events lol. If we go by his high end precog like showcased in the first few comics, he would already known any attack by Superman before battle.

If the Shadow had preparation and Superman was nowhere near him at the start of the fight sure. The opening post clarified no preparation but it didn't give a starting distance.



Wait, are you talking about those possessed orphans in the 2012 annual or something else because I don't know what you're talking about.

They were possessed by some great evil after eating some weird plant. They were not soulless. The plant in question was the physical manifestation of some creature not of the solar system that was basically without a body so it possessed their bodies through the plants it made on earth.



New 52 Superman apparently has resistance against Hector Hammond's telepathy and possession abilities. Need someone to clarify that though.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by Iskandar
If the Shadow had preparation and Superman was nowhere near him at the start of the fight sure. The opening post clarified no preparation but it didn't give a starting distance.



Wait, are you talking about those possessed orphans in the 2012 annual or something else because I don't know what you're talking about.

They were possessed by some great evil after eating some weird plant. They were not soulless. The plant in question was the physical manifestation of some creature not of the solar system that was basically without a body so it possessed their bodies through the plants it made on earth.



New 52 Superman apparently has resistance against Hector Hammond's telepathy and possession abilities. Need someone to clarify that though.

I was going on the idea Shadow would know of this confrontation before they were place in a fight. Unless u consider this a fight where two guy materialize out of nothing and have the experience and powers of said characters.... Otherwise Shadow would have the advantage in this fight before hand.

No not at all. There is another annual where Shadow meets a friend from WW1. This man and 2 others who specialize in different aspects of war steal Margret while Shadow has to take them down. The problem is these characters are shown immune to soul reading and precognition be haze they sold their souls. But Shadow was still able to hypnotize with words one of the soulless men to kill himself!

Resisting a character is neat, but Shadow hypno has never failed when applied to anyone. Whether they are human, soulless, or even the dead. I can see it working on Supes.

Iskandar
Originally posted by CadenceV2 No not at all. There is another annual where Shadow meets a friend from WW1. This man and 2 others who specialize in different aspects of war steal Margret while Shadow has to take them down. The problem is these characters are shown immune to soul reading and precognition be haze they sold their souls. But Shadow was still able to hypnotize with words one of the soulless men to kill himself!


Okay, I know what you are talking about now. It's not an annual it's a Dynamite Comics special which is different from the annuals.

The Shadow Special #1


http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038917_00.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038918_19.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038919_22.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038920_23.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038921_24.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038922_25.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038923_26.jpg

So, don't call it an annual again in the future it will just confuse people.

riv6672
I never thought Shadow Vs Supes would be a viable fight til now...

Iskandar
Not really there's still the huge discrepancy of speed and the fact that the Shadow needs time to either think or talk to use his powers. Precognition does not help when you're fighting someone who is far, far faster than you are.

riv6672
If Superman routinely fought that way, i'd agree.
Considering his first DCnu encounter with Batman he let him empty his utility belt, thats not really the case.

maxivitopowe
Prodigy

CadenceV2
Originally posted by Iskandar
Not really there's still the huge discrepancy of speed and the fact that the Shadow needs time to either think or talk to use his powers. Precognition does not help when you're fighting someone who is far, far faster than you are.

Good thing Shadow Cloud Minds is passive and covers city blocks worth of area. So how is Superman blitzing him when he cannot see him?

krisblaze
He can still hear him, and he would still see him.

There's no mind-trickery, telepathy or soul-ability that would work on Superman.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by Iskandar
Okay, I know what you are talking about now. It's not an annual it's a Dynamite Comics special which is different from the annuals.

The Shadow Special #1


http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038917_00.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038918_19.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038919_22.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038920_23.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038921_24.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038922_25.jpg
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20038923_26.jpg

So, don't call it an annual again in the future it will just confuse people.

Yes that is it. I thought it was a annual. I will remember that.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by krisblaze
He can still hear him, and he would still see him.

There's no mind-trickery, telepathy or soul-ability that would work on Superman.

Not quite lol. He is invisible to senses, this includes Psychic senses as Shadow clouded the mind of a powerful psychic dragon possessing people in the Shadow Annual.

Nice try though smile

krisblaze
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Not quite lol. He is invisible to senses, this includes Psychic senses as Shadow clouded the mind of a powerful psychic dragon possessing people in the Shadow Annual.

Nice try though smile
You're just...clueless in this debate.

There's no other word for it.

The caliber of things that Superman has resisted and detected is just so far beyond the Shadow's capabilities.

I'd report the thread as spite, but it's a poor nomination and not a thread contender, so I'm not sure what to do smile

Iskandar
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Good thing Shadow Cloud Minds is passive

The Shadow's ability to cloud minds is not passive he needs to active it. He is not always invisible.



No, it's specified the Shadow has problems when he tries to use his powers on a lot of people at once. He can cloud a handful of minds at once but there's limits and times when he needs assistance if there are too many.

Masks #2

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20039173_07.jpg

Such as here.



Superman can do so just fine in the miniscule fraction of the second before the Shadow does literally anything because the difference in speed will be that the Shadow is basically a statue standing completely still.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by krisblaze
You're just...clueless in this debate.

There's no other word for it.

The caliber of things that Superman has resisted and detected is just so far beyond the Shadow's capabilities.

I'd report the thread as spite, but it's a poor nomination and not a thread contender, so I'm not sure what to do smile


What's that? Both Deathstroke and Batman have out stealth Superman senses with no special Cloud Mind powers?! smile

Anyway, I fully believe Shadow can cloud his mind and tell him to p!ss of in a red sun, cause he can soul read you know.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by Iskandar
The Shadow's ability to cloud minds is not passive he needs to active it. He is not always invisible.



No, it's specified the Shadow has problems when he tries to use his powers on a lot of people at once. He can cloud a handful of minds at once but there's limits and times when he needs assistance if there are too many.

Masks #2

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20039173_07.jpg

Such as here.



Superman can do so just fine in the miniscule fraction of the second before the Shadow does literally anything because the difference in speed will be that the Shadow is basically a statue standing completely still.

Yes Batman has regularly snuck up Supes reaction. Regularly as well Deathstroke temp escape Supes in a chase as well. Hell Grundy, Mettalo, Parasite all have no standard super speed, yet Supes fails to blitz them in a start of any fight.

As for you scan, it would be relevant if it was not contrary to two other feats. One being Shadow clouding he mind of a Japanese army, as well clouded the minds of a entire shipping yard too. So seems Masks (a non shadow title btw) is either WIS or PIS. Infact in masks the same arc had Shadow clouding the kind of a large skyscraper and all in it. More contradicting evidence.

I still by the argument Shadow would passively have the cloud minds on any battle scenario, and would know the battle would happen before the fight were they meet happens due to his precog feats. Even if we doubt this, then there is the in character superman who never starts a fight with speed blitz in 99% of his fights.

I listed ways and reasons Shadow can win, I will let others decide for themselves.

CadenceV2
Also forgot to point out that scan had Shadow clouding minds for no only himself, but several other people. That's could explain the reason he needed a distraction to set it off while a neighborhood of people were watching him and his team. Hardly the norm for the Cloud Minds which is always used for just Shadow.

Iskandar
Originally posted by CadenceV2 Yes Batman has regularly snuck up Supes reaction. Regularly as well Deathstroke temp escape Supes in a chase as well.

Both of which are extremely nonsensical. You claim PIS of what I posted of Masks but nothing strikes you as strange when someone like Batman or Deathstroke catch Superman off-guard?



Alright then post these instances of Superman, as of New 52, failing to blitz these characters so we can see how stupid whoever wrote these fights was being.



The Shadow wasn't literally clouding all of their minds. What the Shadow was doing was translating what he was saying to them; through the use of his powers.

The Shadow #6

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/20039481_the-shadow-006-15.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/20039485_the-shadow-006-16.jpg

Then the Shadow tricked them into stepping onto some mines that he had planted beforehand by goading them.



No, this is an exaggeration and you're omitting that here the Shadow was only fighting a handful of people. About a dozen if I remember correctly.

The Shadow #1

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/20039366_10-11.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/20039368_12.jpg

Approximately a dozen in fact.

Also, "a non Shadow title" means nothing it's a Dynamite Comics product making it canon.



Care to reference the issue or scans where the context of your claim is described? It's not evidence until you prove that it actually exists or that you're not misinterpreting it.

How many people were being effected by it, and how many people were in this skyscraper. Those sort of details are important.



No, the Shadow wouldn't unless he is given foreknowledge on the event by someone else. His precognition requires he knows what he is looking for.

If the Shadow does not have preparation or does not know that Superman is after him how will the Shadow know to look into Superman's soul to know his future or what he will do?

More than that, how will the Shadow be able to do so in time before he is overwhelmed by Superman's far superior strength and speed?



So, Superman will just wait as some suspicious looking person tries to pull out some pistols on him or gives him a funny look before doing anything. Then basically wait what would be the equivalent of hours from his perception because of his super-speed, and do absolutely nothing as the Shadow makes his move?

CadenceV2
Real quick most of your argument can be down to this.

I claim PIS when batman Ect done the suppose impossible. Yes and no. The key difference is Superman is consistently being out stealthier and such while Shadow has one low showing that I explain could possibly be this way for this reason. Shadow has on low showing that could be a case of a certain circumstance as I explained. Superman has a large list of showings of being out stealth.

Consistence. It is not there for Superman.

The other argument of speed blitz is that, another Superman speed blitz argument. It's been done thousand of times on thousands of threads. I do not think he can speed blitz or would shadow in character. You clearly on the side that does. Simple as that.

Also a none Shadow comic is important in the same way Wolverine solo titles, or Ghost Rider solo titles have better feats than the crap other writers put them down in non solo runs. Never argued canon, I argued the writer of Masks just either did not know the character that well, or downgraded him to make others shine. It happen in most non solo titles.

Iskandar
Originally posted by CadenceV2 Also forgot to point out that scan had Shadow clouding minds for no only himself, but several other people.

It wouldn't make a difference as the Shadow just needs to cloud the minds of the people who are attacking him and his compatriots.

Nor is it noted by the text or by the Shadow himself that it's more difficult to make people other than himself invisible to others.

It's just because of how many people were attacking them at once that made it difficult here.



No, it's been used on others as well such as in the Shadow Now #3.

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20039822_The_Shadow_Now_003-006.jpg

CadenceV2
Originally posted by Iskandar
It wouldn't make a difference as the Shadow just needs to cloud the minds of the people who are attacking him and his compatriots.

Nor is it noted by the text or by the Shadow himself that it's more difficult to make people other than himself invisible to others.

It's just because of how many people were attacking them at once that made it difficult here.



No, it's been used on others as well such as in the Shadow Now #3.

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/20039822_The_Shadow_Now_003-006.jpg

That scan is nowhere near the numbers or intense involved fighting of the other scan. Not to mention it was not written in Shadow solo title. Nor consistent with current feats of Dynamite Shadow.

Either way you read the comics, but I disagree with your stance on it and you mine. Agree to disagree.

Iskandar
Originally posted by CadenceV2
That scan is nowhere near the numbers or intense involved fighting of the other scan. Not to mention it was not written in Shadow solo title. Nor consistent with current feats of Dynamite Shadow.

They're both Dynamite Comics Shadow? The Shadow Now is a Dynamite Comics print. It's no different than using feats from both Batman Incorporated and Batman v2. They both belong to the same canon.

Same with Masks and Justice Inc. which both belong to Dynamite Comics where the Shadow also makes appearances in.



Alright then. Agree to disagree.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Iskandar
Superman is too fast if this was a straight fight he would finish it immediately before the Shadow could do anything. Just a flick on the forehead and the Shadow would be KO.

Also, the Shadow's powers are a form of mysticism that are specified to work on a man's heart and soul. It can even bring people back to like if he commands them to.

The Shadow #1

http://i.imgur.com/cMiWVeo.jpg

Where the Shadow interrogates a thug he recently killed.

The Shadow #2

http://i.imgur.com/m5kbAi2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QIewwzL.jpg

Commanding a pilot who has been peppered with bullets to stay alive long enough to land the plane they're on.

The Shadow #3

http://i.imgur.com/Ol3Z5F2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/idP24D2.jpg

Commanding an assassin back to life after shooting him in the head.

Also, even the Shadow's precognition is stated to work by tracing a person's soul to the end of its path.

The Shadow #1

http://i.imgur.com/tzLnClP.jpg
You really think Superman has never been attacked with magic which affect souls? And what good is precognition when you don't have time to react. Like quicksilver vs Mr. X.


And Superman has bested much stronger magic. Even in byrne days where he was notoriously weak to magic.

Iskandar
Originally posted by abhilegend
You really think Superman has never been attacked with magic which affect souls? And what good is precognition when you don't have time to react. Like quicksilver vs Mr. X.

Read the rest of the thread that's pretty much the point I have been supporting since the beginning. That Superman is too fast for the Shadow to actually do anything. Also, pretty sure we were talking about New 52 Superman. Who is actually pretty weak against magic.

As seen early on in Justice League Dark and Batman v2 #20 where just being in the presence of a demon made him feel nauseous.



Doesn't matter regardless as Superman is too fast and will KO the Shadow before he can do pretty much of anything.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Iskandar
Read the rest of the thread that's pretty much the point I have been supporting since the beginning. That Superman is too fast for the Shadow to actually do anything. Also, pretty sure we were talking about New 52 Superman. Who is actually pretty weak against magic.

As seen early on in Justice League Dark and Batman v2 #20 where just being in the presence of a demon made him feel nauseous.



Doesn't matter regardless as Superman is too fast and will KO the Shadow before he can do pretty much of anything.
And Shazam's magic amped punches didn't even slow him down. He fought a 5-d imp who had the power to destroy creation and beat him. Took on a magical blast from a planet destroyer which could've killed several Superman class beings. So no more vulnerable than preboot Superman.


And he was being nauseous because that demon was draining his powers. Not due to magic IIRC.

Iskandar
Originally posted by abhilegend

And Shazam's magic amped punches didn't even slow him down.

How powerful is Shazam as of the New 52, and when did this happen exactly?



What's the context behind this as I am skeptical that Superman can outright fight a 5-D imp and beat it with conventional means.

Unless this is like a really weak 5-D imp. How powerful are 5-D imps in the New 52?



An issue number or scan would be nice.



It only started draining Superman of power when he started to fight it and held it at bay long enough for Batman to figure out how to banish it. By the end of it Superman needed to be saved by Batman.

Batman v2 #20

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/20043884_Batman_2011-_020-022.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/20043885_Batman_2011-_020-023.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/20043886_Batman_2011-_020-024.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/20043887_Batman_2011-_020-025.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/20043889_Batman_2011-_020-026.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/20043890_Batman_2011-_020-027.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/20043891_Batman_2011-_020-028.jpg

As early as Batman v2 #19 the nausea was mentioned long before either Batman or Superman met the demon. It got worse as they got closer to it.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/20043939_Batman_2011-_019-023.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/20043941_Batman_2011-_019-024.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/20043942_Batman_2011-_019-025.jpg

riv6672
Well, I'M convinced the Shadow is the answer to my question.

Thanks, all!

abhilegend
Originally posted by Iskandar
How powerful is Shazam as of the New 52, and when did this happen exactly? Shazam is a peer of Superman in new 52 in strength. The fight happened in Justice League 22.



He didn't beat it outright. But seeing how he was massively weakened by kryptonite and fought him for an issue straight up, it shows how powerful he is.

Originally posted by abhilegend
While on the other hand Superman is fighting and defeating an evil 5-d imp.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15576121_2013-03-20_07-29-30_-_Action_Comics_18-004.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15576123_2013-03-20_07-29-32_-_Action_Comics_18-005.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15576126_2013-03-20_07-29-35_-_Action_Comics_18-006.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15576128_2013-03-20_07-29-48_-_Action_Comics_18-011.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15576130_2013-03-20_07-29-50_-_Action_Comics_18-012.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15576132_2013-03-20_07-30-00_-_Action_Comics_18-016.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15576133_2013-03-20_07-30-02_-_Action_Comics_18-017.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15576136_2013-03-20_07-30-03_-_Action_Comics_18-018.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15576137_2013-03-20_07-30-05_-_Action_Comics_18-019.jpg




That imp was converging every timeline in the multiverse into one and was fighting Superman across all timelines simultaneously. He also had the power to destroy creation. Mxy pulled a whole universe out of his hat. So pretty powerful I say.








Originally posted by abhilegend
And the guys who were about to get killed when Superman saved them from a magical blast? One of them did this to a ship this huge.

http://imgur.com/yI4iyFt
http://imgur.com/wycpZpF


http://i.imgur.com/x72aPPK.jpg

Split it into half with a single strike and kick it away like a damn football! Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman also takes several attacks from Multitude, magical weapon from 5th dimensional which killed Mxy's older form in one attack and destroyed 230 worlds instantly.

http://i.imgur.com/tZcjkT0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8MPLjbE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SVzfcLz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GqSAju0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KLqc4vb.jpg



Not a good showing, but not a bad showing. The writer had to use two of superman's weaknesses to neutralize Superman. Preboot Superman has much worse magic showings when he appeared in Batman's comics.



That was idiotic. But all it showed that Superman is particularly susceptible to magical draining and that's why the nausea. How else would Batman look better than Superman?

Iskandar
Originally posted by abhilegend
Shazam is a peer of Superman in new 52 in strength. The fight happened in Justice League 22.

Okay, all I am see is some punches and physical blows being exchanged between them. Nothing esoteric like soul manipulation.



I'm seeing Superman getting transmuted and shape-shifted by it, and getting beaten like a rag doll until he and a bunch of other people say their name backwards in order to banish it.



Which would be relevant if Superman actually defeated this 5-D imp instead of just banishing it like usual. Or, if Superman displayed an actual immunity to being transmutated into other creatures or into a child. Nothing in these scans show any actual resistance to a 5-D imp's powers.



No, Superman was just dealing with his suspectably to magic at first until after fighting the demon--when it had gotten the upper hand--it started to try eating Superman's soul. Just like it did with one of the kids who summoned it.

The demon was not trying to eat Superman's soul since the moment he entered the building. It was trying to eat Superman's soul once it got the upper hand in their fight.



Maybe because Batman does not have a demonstrated weakness in regards to magic like Superman does. Also, Superman himself even specifies in Batman v2 #20 that "every time I touch it there's a shudder of pain. My body's rejecting the magic."

Being in the same building as it made Superman nauseous. It's touching it that made him feel actual pain. Neither of these are result of the demon trying to absorb Superman's soul. It's a result of Superman being close to it.

We see when the demon is trying to suck out Superman's soul. It's here: http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/20043889/Batman_2011-_020-026.jpg.html

When Batman saves him before the demon succeeds in devouring it. It's considerably different.

carver9
http://i.stack.imgur.com/RKznu.jpg
http://i.stack.imgur.com/OAz6K.jpg
http://i.stack.imgur.com/BcwZB.jpg
http://i.stack.imgur.com/Tm0uP.jpg

Konton
Raven maybe? She dropped Mr. Majestic like a sack of potatoes.

Iskandar
Originally posted by carver9
http://i.stack.imgur.com/RKznu.jpg
http://i.stack.imgur.com/OAz6K.jpg
http://i.stack.imgur.com/BcwZB.jpg
http://i.stack.imgur.com/Tm0uP.jpg

That would be from Justice League Dark #1.

Also, lol magical teeth.

riv6672
@Konton,

Those potatoes were obviously not Kryptonian.

Iskandar
Mr. Majestic is a potato?

Urizkerx
the problem is that Supes magic resistance usually varies, I've seen him survive getting hit by guys like Shazam but then get owned by low end D and C lister magic users.

riv6672
Originally posted by Iskandar
Mr. Majestic is a potato?
Not a Kryptonian potato, though.

Iskandar
There's a joke I am missing here.

Digi
I have no desire to contribute, but I've loved the discussion here. The Shadow probably doesn't have any business being here, but it's damn fun to see him being argued against Supes.

Existere
Faust manipulated Eradicator's powers before, and, in a separate incident, casually stole Flash and Green Lantern's powers. He could almost certainly do the same thing to Superman... if Superman let him live long enough to get close. ermm

CadenceV2
Originally posted by Digi
I have no desire to contribute, but I've loved the discussion here. The Shadow probably doesn't have any business being here, but it's damn fun to see him being argued against Supes.

True that lol.

riv6672
Ha, yes. Blood pressures have risen.

Digi
I assume a heat-vision lobotomy from space is undefendable by the Shadow, yes? But at least it requires Supes to be smart/cheap with his powers. If he's dumb, there are some fun Shadow feats being thrown around.

riv6672
Well this isnt a versus.
The question is who could take him out. Given the chance, by the evidence shown, Shadow could do it.

Digi
Originally posted by riv6672
Well this isnt a versus.
The question is who could take him out. Given the chance, by the evidence shown, Shadow could do it.

Ah, I see. So the criteria for victory per the OP is a little different than in a straight-up vs. battle.

thumb up

riv6672
Pretty much.

I've seen these "weakest character" threads here, and I answer these threads by the criteria i stated. Some folks dont.
This being my thread, i'm discounting things like Superman blitzing, shooting from space, whats basically a guy with two guns, because some wont admit said guy has some subtle magic that'd work on the kryptonian.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Iskandar
Okay, all I am see is some punches and physical blows being exchanged between them. Nothing esoteric like soul manipulation. Well, Shazam's magic is particularly powerful in DCnU. And it shows that he can take magical punches like a champ.



Well, what do you think he should've done against a 5-D imp. Taking that much punishment from an abstract level magical entity isn't enough for you?



Well, he was actually standing there pretty much in one piece at the end of two issue fight with a 5-D imp after he was bombarded with green, red, blue and every flavor of kryptonite there is. A very good showing for his durability.



And? I said its not a good showing.

His presence itself was enough to drain Superman as he was feeling nauseous. Preboot Superman got damn near killed by random vampires and werevolves in Batman Confidential. Magic=low showing for Superman in batman comics.



Yeah, that's silly. But what can you do. If you think he is that susceptible to magic that a human does better than him, Shazam should've killed him with one punch.

erm

You are trying too hard on a low showing.

I know.Originally posted by Iskandar
That would be from Justice League Dark #1.

Also, lol magical teeth.
That was before DCnU Superman's powers were actually defined in any measure. And they were created by a very powerful sorceress in Enchantress.

I take you didn't consider Superman taking attacks from Multitude who destroyed 230 planets instantly.

riv6672
Originally posted by Digi
Ah, I see. So the criteria for victory per the OP is a little different than in a straight-up vs. battle.

thumb up

Originally posted by riv6672
Pretty much.

I've seen these "weakest character" threads here, and I answer these threads by the criteria i stated. Some folks dont.
This being my thread, i'm discounting things like Superman blitzing, shooting from space, whats basically a guy with two guns, because some wont admit said guy has some subtle magic that'd work on the kryptonian.

Originally posted by abhilegend
More pointless drivel that really has nothing to do with this thread.

Here's one of those people now.laughing

krisblaze
Hold up ninjas.

Batman Confidential is canon?

I though the confidential comics weren't canon...

riv6672
Originally posted by krisblaze
Hold up ninjas.

Batman Confidential is canon?

I though the confidential comics weren't canon...
Only if it helps make abhi's point. Otherwise he'll say its not.

DarkSaint85
Crimson Avenger could do it.

krisblaze
Because Joker looked pretty funky in the Batman comics...

riv6672
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Crimson Avenger could do it.
The female with the blindfold? Not sure i even remember her powers...

DarkSaint85
She's intangible, her guns don't miss (?)/run out of ammo, and she has wounded Superman before.

She also gains the abilities/memories of those she is avenging,and they aren't always innocent.

So, technically, she COULD get Zod's memories etc.

riv6672
Dang, okay. Sweet...thumb up

Iskandar
Originally posted by Iskandar
New 52 Superman apparently has resistance against Hector Hammond's telepathy and possession abilities. Need someone to clarify that though.

So, since no one clarified this I decided to look into it myself and it turns out to be a false claim (I remember someone else making the claim in that list the strongest nu52 DC hero thread, not sure who).

Superman #20

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060395_2013-05-22_07-53-12_-_Superman_2011-_020-011.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060396_2013-05-22_07-53-15_-_Superman_2011-_020-012.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060397_2013-05-22_07-53-19_-_Superman_2011-_020-013.jpg

It took Orion's mother box to "exorcise" Hector Hammond for the lack of a better word.

Also, I looked into Psi War to see Superman's confrontation with Psycho Pirate.

Action Comics #24


http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060501_Action_Comics_2011-_024-020.jpghttp://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060485_Action_Comics_2011-_024-021.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060486_Action_Comics_2011-_024-022.jpg

Who also overwhelmed Superman with his psychic abilities. So, Superman's psychic resistance is kind of falling short as well. Note that Psycho Pirate was also fighting Superboy and Dr. Psycho at the same time as well in Superboy #24. So, basically Psycho Pirate was able to psychically overwhelm Superman even with his focus split.

abhilegend
Originally posted by krisblaze
Hold up ninjas.

Batman Confidential is canon?

I though the confidential comics weren't canon...
Its canon.

krisblaze
Originally posted by abhilegend
Its canon.
How can it be?

A few years back I think Pr mentioned that all issues were uncanon unless specifically referenced.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Iskandar
So, since no one clarified this I decided to look into it myself and it turns out to be a false claim (I remember someone else making the claim in that list the strongest nu52 DC hero thread, not sure who).

Superman #20

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060395_2013-05-22_07-53-12_-_Superman_2011-_020-011.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060396_2013-05-22_07-53-15_-_Superman_2011-_020-012.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060397_2013-05-22_07-53-19_-_Superman_2011-_020-013.jpg

It took Orion's mother box to "exorcise" Hector Hammond for the lack of a better word.

Also, I looked into Psi War to see Superman's confrontation with Psycho Pirate.

Action Comics #24


http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060501_Action_Comics_2011-_024-020.jpghttp://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060485_Action_Comics_2011-_024-021.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/20060486_Action_Comics_2011-_024-022.jpg

Who also overwhelmed Superman with his psychic abilities. So, Superman's psychic resistance is kind of falling short as well. Note that Psycho Pirate was also fighting Superboy and Dr. Psycho at the same time as well in Superboy #24. So, basically Psycho Pirate was able to psychically overwhelm Superman even with his focus split.
Well, Psycho Pirate was more powerful than Hector Hammond and Insect Queen put together. Here is a better feat than that.

Superman was immune to Brainiac's TP.

http://i.imgur.com/1q5HvdG.jpg

How powerful was Brainiac? Well Lois Lane's TP power were universal level as showed here when Parasite stole her powers.

http://i.imgur.com/WfcQoXq.jpg

And those powers are just a fraction of TP powers of Brainiac. "Every person on the planet, every planet in the cosmos, all at once. This is what Brainiac sees every.......". And what Brainiac sees every day fried the mind of a universal level telepath's mind.

So yeah, Superman has low feats. But he has his high feats too.

riv6672
Originally posted by krisblaze
How can it be?

A few years back I think Pr mentioned that all issues were uncanon unless specifically referenced.

Oddly ignored by the guy who quotes posts down to the comma. laughing out loud

Iskandar
Originally posted by abhilegend
Well, Psycho Pirate was more powerful than Hector Hammond and Insect Queen put together. Here is a better feat than that.

Superman was immune to Brainiac's TP.

http://i.imgur.com/1q5HvdG.jpg

How powerful was Brainiac? Well Lois Lane's TP power were universal level as showed here when Parasite stole her powers.

http://i.imgur.com/WfcQoXq.jpg

And those powers are just a fraction of TP powers of Brainiac. "Every person on the planet, every planet in the cosmos, all at once. This is what Brainiac sees every.......". And what Brainiac sees every day fried the mind of a universal level telepath's mind.

So yeah, Superman has low feats. But he has his high feats too.

Kind of off-topic but by contrast how powerful would this make Psycho Pirate's telepathy then. At least Xavier level or something?

Greater?

Since, if we take this seriously, this would make bother Hector Hammond for being able to possess Superman and Psycho Pirate who was able to incapacitate Superman with telepathy ridiculously powerful psychics.

Probably Superboy as well because of the fact he could break Psycho Pirate's illusion and had to consciously let Psycho Pirate manipulate his emotions in Superboy #24.

riv6672
I honestly dont have any answers for this...!

Iskandar
Originally posted by Iskandar
Kind of off-topic but by contrast how powerful would this make Psycho Pirate's telepathy then. At least Xavier level or something?

Greater?

Since, if we take this seriously, this would make bother Hector Hammond for being able to possess Superman and Psycho Pirate who was able to incapacitate Superman with telepathy ridiculously powerful psychics.

Probably Superboy as well because of the fact he could break Psycho Pirate's illusion and had to consciously let Psycho Pirate manipulate his emotions in Superboy #24.

Also, that is a typo.

Both I meant.

riv6672
Ha, yeah i figured! big grin

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