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Who wins?
No prep..
Dcnu..




The Defenders

Dr.Strange
Hulk
Silver Surfer
Ghost Rider
Namor

Vs


Darkseid

Team wins.

Yeah team should take it. Though I dont see Namor or GR bringing much to the battle. Spectre's torment vision prooved inefectual.

Team rapes.

Originally posted by beatboks
Yeah team should take it. Though I dont see Namor or GR bringing much to the battle. Spectre's torment vision prooved inefectual.

GR brings the second most to the fight besides Strange. Soul searing hellfire. Unlimited regen via Hellfire. Cannot be harmed by non magical attacks. BFR foes to hell. Can summon other Spirits of Vengeance in a fight. Stats enough to beat Hell Lords in their own realms.

Beside Strange, GR is the next best here.

Which Darkseid?

DCNU 52 might lose.

Preboot slams.

Ill go with the Team to take it as well.

Strange and Ghost Rider blasts, Hulk physically takes him on while the others sit back. Pre Reboot Darkseid dies, badly.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
GR brings the second most to the fight besides Strange. Soul searing hellfire. Unlimited regen via Hellfire. Cannot be harmed by non magical attacks. BFR foes to hell. Can summon other Spirits of Vengeance in a fight. Stats enough to beat Hell Lords in their own realms.

Beside Strange, GR is the next best here.

Spectre's own "penance stare" could not harm Darkseid even though it was powerful enough to cast even Classic Dr Fate through infinite realms. Hell fire and penance stare simply wont work because as stated when Spectre tried it he was "needed". Nothing can destroy DS because of that. BFR or containment are the only options.

DS himself can't be destroyed only captured in the source wall. and has himself with omega effect destroyed so called indestructible things. Hell wouldn't hold DS even his minions who have impersonated him like Desaad have dictated terms to beings of power greater than hell Lords in their own realms.

Cadence you know me, my penchant is for magical and demon based characters from both the DCU and MU. I'm fully well aware of what the spirit's of vengeance can do, it's just not a determining factor against DS. Strange a Surfer are the winners with hulk being the major distraction as his regen and physical stats will just keep DS busy while the other tow contain him.

Darkseid would try to kill them.

His omega blast is too powerful for anyone but Strange to defend against, Surfer on the best of his days.

Only against a weaker Avatar do they stand a chance.

This being DCnU Darkseid...

Team wins.

^with BFR I think they would.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
GR brings the second most to the fight besides Strange. Soul searing hellfire. Unlimited regen via Hellfire. Cannot be harmed by non magical attacks. BFR foes to hell. Can summon other Spirits of Vengeance in a fight. Stats enough to beat Hell Lords in their own realms.

Beside Strange, GR is the next best here.
Basically, this.
Did DCnu DS already get an upgrade? Because in his first appearance a novice JLA did land blows on him, and it was far from a stomp.
This Defenders team has experience and a power set that JLA didnt, with GR, Surfer and Strange.
Add Hulk and Namor on the physical end of the spectrum, and DS is losing more often than not.

Originally posted by beatboks
Spectre's own "penance stare" could not harm Darkseid even though it was powerful enough to cast even Classic Dr Fate through infinite realms. Hell fire and penance stare simply wont work because as stated when Spectre tried it he was "needed". Nothing can destroy DS because of that. BFR or containment are the only options.

DS himself can't be destroyed only captured in the source wall. and has himself with omega effect destroyed so called indestructible things. Hell wouldn't hold DS even his minions who have impersonated him like Desaad have dictated terms to beings of power greater than hell Lords in their own realms.

Cadence you know me, my penchant is for magical and demon based characters from both the DCU and MU. I'm fully well aware of what the spirit's of vengeance can do, it's just not a determining factor against DS. Strange a Surfer are the winners with hulk being the major distraction as his regen and physical stats will just keep DS busy while the other tow contain him.

Some things I think I can point out here. The Penance Stare does not work the same way as your describing. it works by causing anyone with a soul to feel the pain of their victims that had been harm by you. This could be a villain you punch, or world your tortured and killed. Either way unless DS does not have a soul per say (does he?) I see no reason it cannot work to some degree on him.

http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/JBGRAbilityPenanceStareDescription_zpsbbdaf226.jpg.html?sort=9&o=112

Blackheart states it lets the mind relive all the misdeeds it committed at once. Most people think this wording means they simply see bad things which is crap

http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/DKGRFeatPSBlade_zps53312e9c.png.html?sort=9&o=28

Blade absorbs the spirit of vengeance, and his hit with the PS as well. Blade, a good guy! How does the PS work here? Its states "Burns away at the fiber of Blades being" and "Countless others who have felt the pain they inflicted, no different, but a hundredfold more severe" and "every cell in his body explodes with the pain he has inflicted on recent victims" and "He relieves their deaths a thousand times in a space of a micro second"

So what does this mean? It means DS very being will be wracked in unbelievable agony. now unless DS has no soul, he will be feeling the PS for sure.

Then their is the argument of how DS can deal with GR? How is he going to harm a being immune to non magical damage?

Also GR has the ability to BFR DS or return from any BFR from the Omega Beams.

Here Alejandra teleports herself and others through a Hellfire portal.

http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/GRSoVAbilityTeleport2_zps1feec70c.jpg.html?sort=9&o=100

Here Zarathos uses his hellfire to teleport Ketch GR and himself to another part of the world.

http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/GRSoVAbilityTeleport1_zps15f4f14d.png.html?sort=9&o=99


Here Caleb GR BFRs a entire western town into hell.

http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/CalebGRFeatBFRstoGRDimension1_zpsb566df6b.jpg.html?sort=9&o=0
http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/CalebGRFeatBFRstoGRDimension2_zpscfa84117.png.html?sort=9&o=1

So DS can very well be BFRed himself and to hell. As for DS BFRing GR back in time, not a full proof plan either. These two GRs traveled back in time to change future events with their HEllfire power.

http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/GRSoVFeatTimeTravel1_zps111e2fbf.jpg.html?sort=9&o=102
http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/GRSoVFeatTimeTravel2_zpsf2956d4d.jpg.html?sort=9&o=103
http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/GRSoVFeatTimeTravel3_zps5921f0b8.jpg.html?sort=9&o=104
http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/GRSoVFeatTimeTravel4_zps83ef8232.jpg.html?sort=9&o=105

Then there is also the very rarely, but not unheard of power to summon other Spirits of Venegeance to a battlefield.

Blaze summons Spirits of Vengeance to Heaven to take down Sky Father level Zadkiel.

http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR/GRsvsZadkiel516_zpsb6c018b1.jpg.html?sort=9&o=89
http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR/GRsvsZadkiel518_zps977d3331.jpg.html?sort=9&o=91

Caleb summons Spirit of Vengeance to deal with this poor schmuck, even shows on panel power enough to turn that little hell planet into a hell like super nova by art

http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/CalebGRFeatBFRstoGRDimension6_zps76ab39a6.png.html?sort=9&o=4

Its also not impossible for GR to make copies of himself via Hellfire either.

http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR%20Feats/DKGRFeatHellfireAvatars1_zps48c9aeea.jpg.html?sort=9&o=25

Lets not forget how GR can and will be able to use Hellfire to combine everyone's power into a super Ghost Rider!

http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR/AlejandraGRvsBlackheart1_zpsb41287c7.jpg.html?sort=9&o=0
http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/GhostRider042085/media/JOHNNY5-PC/Pictures/Comics/GR/GR/AlejandraGRvsBlackheart2_zps8edfa360.jpg.html?sort=9&o=1

Like Alejandra did here combining Red Hulk and venom with herself against Hell Lord Blackheart.

Recently in the Uncanny Avengers, Ghost Rider took on Thor, Wanda, Strange, Manthing, and the rest of the avengers by himself and did not lose that fight either.

So why is Silver Surfer above GR in any way possible? I honestly rate GR over prep less Classic Strange.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
^with BFR I think they would.

They would win without it. Based off fts, Hulk is faster, stronger and more durable than Darkseid.

Ah the blasphemy. I love it.

Originally posted by carver9
They would win without it. Based off fts, Hulk is faster, stronger and more durable than Darkseid.

When Highfather and DArkseid fought, the planet they were on was destroyed. Darkseid was not killed.

When Exitar blew the planet up, Hulk, along with everyone else, was killed.

Therefore, Darkseid is able to tank planetary explosions. Some members of this team, were not.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111117653/3724204-0968164691-Justi.jpg

@Darkseint...

First thing I want to say is the planet destruction happened off panel. Appears the Omega could have done it. Are you implying Hulk can't destroy a planet?

Also, lol, Hulk has withstood planetary attacks on more than one occasions. Hell, he has endured attacks that can push planets out of orbit.

Like I've stated...Hulk is stronger, faster, and more durable.

And looking at your scan, it appears the planet was behind them.

I doubt they'll be lobbing exploding planets at each other, though.

...maybe Dr. Strange'd do it.

Forgot to mention, EXITAR killed Hulk, not a planets explosion.

Originally posted by carver9
@Darkseint...

First thing I want to say is the planet destruction happened off panel. Appears the Omega could have done it. Are you implying Hulk can't destroy a planet?

Also, lol, Hulk has withstood planetary attacks on more than one occasions. Hell, he has endured attacks that can push planets out of orbit.

Like I've stated...Hulk is stronger, faster, and more durable.

And looking at your scan, it appears the planet was behind them.

1. Re read my post. I was making a point about durability. Not planet destroying. Also, off panel? It's there. On panel.
2. Indestructible Hulk has?
3. Did you read the comic? If not, then please don't comment on where the planet was lol. Although, using your logic, the shock waves from their fighting is what destroyed the planet, even if they weren't on it? Cool. That makes it even more powerful. If residual energy can destroy a nearby planet, imagine how powerful it is at the source.

Originally posted by carver9
Forgot to mention, EXITAR killed Hulk, not a planets explosion.

Got the scan? Or did it *snicker* happen OFF PANEL?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. Re read my post. I was making a point about durability. Not planet destroying. Also, off panel? It's there. On panel.
2. Indestructible Hulk has?
3. Did you read the comic? If not, then please don't comment on where the planet was lol. Although, using your logic, the shock waves from their fighting is what destroyed the planet, even if they weren't on it? Cool. That makes it even more powerful. If residual energy can destroy a nearby planet, imagine how powerful it is at the source.



Got the scan? Or did it *snicker* happen OFF PANEL?

I read the comic but as we can see per your scan, the Omega could have destroyed the planet. You honestly don't know since again, it happened off panel. It didn't say "they destroyed the planet", it said HE destroyed the planet which again happened off panel with no idea on how it happened. At least you tried Dark.

Lol...Exitar molds in with Earth..destroys the planet with Super Saiyan energy surrounding his body. If that isn't proof enough that Exitar was in play of Hulk dying then I don't know what is.

Originally posted by carver9
I read the comic but as we can see per your scan, the Omega could have destroyed the planet. You honestly don't know since again, it happened off panel. It didn't say "they destroyed the planet", it said HE destroyed the planet which again happened off panel with no idea on how it happened. At least you tried Dark.

Lol...Exitar molds in with Earth..destroys the planet with Super Saiyan energy surrounding his body. If that isn't proof enough that Exitar was in play of Hulk dying then I don't know what is.

Lol. My point about reading the comic was in reference to you saying the planet was behind them. But you seem to be twisting your arguments now.

Anyways.

So in one scan, it explicitly states HE destroyed the planet.

In another scan, we see the Earth destroyed as Exitar wraps in around his body, giving off energy - but nowhere does it state how the Hulk was killed. Am I denying Exitar had a role to play in his death? Hells no. And if you try to twist my words to make it sound like I said that, you;re sadly mistaken.

Of course Exitar had a role to play. Had he not been there, the planet would not have been destroyed, and Hulk would not have died. BUT the Hulk died as a result of the planet exploding.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. My point about reading the comic was in reference to you saying the planet was behind them. But you seem to be twisting your arguments now.

Anyways.

So in one scan, it explicitly states HE destroyed the planet.

In another scan, we see the Earth destroyed as Exitar wraps in around his body, giving off energy - but nowhere does it state how the Hulk was killed. Am I denying Exitar had a role to play in his death? Hells no. And if you try to twist my words to make it sound like I said that, you;re sadly mistaken.

Of course Exitar had a role to play. Had he not been there, the planet would not have been destroyed, and Hulk would not have died. BUT the Hulk died as a result of the planet exploding.

The Hulk died because of Exitar. Also, that was more than a planetary attack, the destruction of said blast went past the moon.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111134695/3993258-0505605121-022.j.jpg

Also, Darkseid planet busting happened off panel. Don't know how he could've done it.

Originally posted by carver9
The Hulk died because of Exitar. Also, that was more than a planetary attack, the destruction of said blast went past the moon.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111134695/3993258-0505605121-022.j.jpg

Also, Darkseid planet busting happened off panel. Don't know how he could've done it.

Youa re just arguing semantics now. Was it the Super Saiyan energy of Exitar, or the planet's explosion that killed Hulk? Simple question. That Exitar was involved is not doubted. I AM AGREEING WITH YOU. It is the manner by which he died which is important.

One is more relevant and analogous to what happened with Darkseid. The other is Celestial Super Saiyan energy which, obviously, isn't.

But we acknowledge he can? And that he survived said explosion? I mean, you can't just ignore a feat because you don't understand it, otherwise, you'd have nothing to use.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Youa re just arguing semantics now. Was it the Super Saiyan energy of Exitar, or the planet's explosion that killed Hulk? Simple question. That Exitar was involved is not doubted. I AM AGREEING WITH YOU. It is the manner by which he died which is important.

One is more relevant and analogous to what happened with Darkseid. The other is Celestial Super Saiyan energy which, obviously, isn't.

But we acknowledge he can? And that he survived said explosion? I mean, you can't just ignore a feat because you don't understand it, otherwise, you'd have nothing to use.

Look at the energy in this scan surrounding his body when destroying the planet.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111134695/3993257-4779168625-020.j.jpg

It's the same energy shown here.

http://s29.postimg.org/vjymjykuv/023.jpg

And here...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/6/66303/3512197-screen+shot+2013-12-18+at+4.30.19+pm.png

And here as well when he is molding into the planet.

http://cdn3-www.craveonline.com/assets/uploads/2014/01/Uncanny_Avengers_17_Preview_2.jpg

Hell, in the scan above, that same energy is surrounding the planet before it exploded.


Just stop stop Dark. Like I've stated, EXITAR killed Hulk...I shouldn't have to put all of those scans up on a showing YOU brought up. And like I've stated before, the blast was greater than planetary.

As for Darkseid, he destroyed a planet off panel. No indication on how it happened. Hulk stomps Darkseid face in based off superior fts.

So you have no scans showing Hulk being killed, and thus, it was off panel? No indication on how it happened, only that a planet exploded, and Hulk died?

Thanks.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you have no scans showing Hulk being killed, and thus, it was off panel? No indication on how it happened, only that a planet exploded, and Hulk died?

Thanks.



I don't need to see Hulk dying since I know Exitar is powerful enough to kill him with his energy output just like he would kill Darkseid as well.

Zarathos can arguably solo anyway. No need for Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9


I don't need to see Hulk dying since I know Exitar is powerful enough to kill him with his energy output just like he would kill Darkseid as well.

So....you have nothing, and my point still stands, as you are basing your stance on off-panel proof and guesstimation?

A planet got destroyed.

In one, Hulk died.

In the other, Darkseid survived.

These are inarguable facts.

And comparable, too.

So, Darkseid durability > Hulk. Because whilst you may bring up Hulk tanking a weapon based on Ultron's adamantium demoleculariser or whatever, as an example, the simple fact is that such a weapon does not exist in DCnU, so it's useless to bring up, and would just be you trying to shock and awe us into thinking Hulk is the be all and end all, when he isn't.

So the comparison I brought up, at least, is comparable to each other. Planetary explosions. One shall stand, the other, fell.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Zarathos can arguably solo anyway. No need for Hulk.

Agreed.

Hulk is an annoyance, a distraction, at most.

After all, this is what a wise poster once said:

Originally posted by carver9
I already told you his superior fts imo. Him matching these people is proof imo, especially looking at both of them being in similar situations.

It's like he's talking about Darkseid, matching the JLA.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So....you have nothing, and my point still stands, as you are basing your stance on off-panel proof and guesstimation?

A planet got destroyed.

In one, Hulk died.

In the other, Darkseid survived.

These are inarguable facts.

And comparable, too.

So, Darkseid durability > Hulk. Because whilst you may bring up Hulk tanking a weapon based on Ultron's adamantium demoleculariser or whatever, as an example, the simple fact is that such a weapon does not exist in DCnU, so it's useless to bring up, and would just be you trying to shock and awe us into thinking Hulk is the be all and end all, when he isn't.

So the comparison I brought up, at least, is comparable to each other. Planetary explosions. One shall stand, the other, fell.

Your comparison is terrible though since again, Exitar killed Hulk, not a planet explosion. Even if the planet didn't explode, Exitar could still kill Hulk and any other Skyfather/Herald/Meta, with an attack. As shown, Exitar energy destroyed the Earth, moon, killed all the hero and Skyfathers that was on Earth (i think Zeus is on Earth as well) and the energy was about to cross over into Asgard if it wasn't for the portal closing. Exitar would kill Darkseid as well, without a planet exploding as a side effect. Sorry.

Where did Darkseid survive a planet explosion? Scan. Also, Hulk has survived planetary attacks.

I don't need to bring up his adamantium showings...especially when I have the advantage here with his fts being greater than Darkseids.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
After all, this is what a wise poster once said:



It's like he's talking about Darkseid, matching the JLA.

Yep, and Batman Prime has convinced me that fights doesn't matter. We go by fts. Batman P also said that the JLA Darkseid fought was watered down.

Originally posted by carver9
Yep, and Batman Prime has convinced me that fights doesn't matter. We go by fts. Batman P also said that the JLA Darkseid fought was watered down.

Right, right. You believe that, then? Fights don't matter, only feats?

DarkSaint owning right now and it's hilarious.

Originally posted by carver9
Forgot to mention, EXITAR killed Hulk, not a planets explosion.

Like Darksaint said it's just arguing in semantics arguing what killed Hulk int hat scan is like saying what came first the chicken or the egg.

Did Exitar kill Hulk by energy or did Exitar's energy explode the Earth killing Hulk that way.

For all we know Hulk might have tripped on a bit of rubble and impaled his head on a spike made with the essence of the Murasma blade. In the end Carver what we see on the scan was what happened like Darksaint said.

But seriously Hulk died from the planets explosion that Exitar caused. Although who knows Exitar might have stomped on Hulk turning him into a green jelly while destroying the Earths crust

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Right, right. You believe that, then? Fights don't matter, only feats?

Look at who I quoted. It was meant for him.

Originally posted by deathslash
DarkSaint owning right now and it's hilarious.

How?

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Like Darksaint said it's just arguing in semantics arguing what killed Hulk int hat scan is like saying what came first the chicken or the egg.

Did Exitar kill Hulk by energy or did Exitar's energy explode the Earth killing Hulk that way.

For all we know Hulk might have tripped on a bit of rubble and impaled his head on a spike made with the essence of the Murasma blade. In the end Carver what we see on the scan was what happened like Darksaint said.

But seriously Hulk died from the planets explosion that Exitar caused. Although who knows Exitar might have stomped on Hulk turning him into a green jelly while destroying the Earths crust

I get what DarkSaint is saying and it really doesn't matter since before the planet exploded, he was touched by Rogue and probably wasn't at full power since her abilities IS to take your power (and your power tends to return when it is out of her system).

Carver is the worst

Originally posted by -K-M-
Carver is the worst quoted for truth.

Originally posted by carver9
I get what DarkSaint is saying and it really doesn't matter since before the planet exploded, he was touched by Rogue and probably wasn't at full power since her abilities IS to take your power (and your power tends to return when it is out of her system).

You're using Rogue's a way for you to make Hulk shine is pretty bad man.

Just so we dont lose focus in the walls of text and scans etc.

The Defenders win this fight.

Originally posted by SquallX
You're using Rogue's a way for you to make Hulk shine is pretty bad man.

Huh? What I said was the truth. I also provided scans on the previous page backing my claims.

Maybe Rogue killed Hulk, by taking too much of his power, as he was the only one mighty enough to lift Exitar????

The madder the Hulk gets, the stronger the Hulk gets - unless Rogue touches him.

Then he gets all flaccid.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Maybe Rogue killed Hulk, by taking too much of his power, as he was the only one mighty enough to lift Exitar????

Don't get the point you are trying to make Dark. I know you are saying all of this because of what I said about Darkseid off panel showing.