He-Man vs. Godzilla

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Digi
Composite for both. He-Man gets his power vest and Sword of Power. Fight is in New York City. Combatants start a reasonable distance apart; maybe half a mile.

Astute forum members will realize that I may have a horse in this race, but that isn't quite so! I fought leo in a BZ with these characters because we both knew a lot about our respective fan crushes. But I didn't take the fight because I knew I could win. I just thought it would be fun (and it was). And, perhaps more than any BZ/tourney match I've been in involved in, I'm still not sure that it's a clear He-Man win. I do think he wins, but I don't think it's a definitive win, and Leo did a lot to increase my respect for the lizard.

If anyone needs battle plans, feats, arguments, etc., go here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t600780.html

It's as thorough a debate as you'll find on these two.

As I see it, He-Man has plot device strength, and to a lesser extent plot device "other" powers as well. The Sword of Power is also unassailable as a weapon capable of dishing it out to any herald. But he does have notably lower durability feats than GZ, who is an absolute tank of tanks. GZ's AoE attacks, and NOT just his breath but also his omni-directional energy blasts, I saw as his primary edge against He-Man. They were the one thing I never really countered in the fight, relying on He-Man's speed to avoid the breath (another edge, though to what extent remains up to interpretation). I considered it somewhat lucky that no judge specifically called me out for not having an answer to the omni-directional energy attack. I'm not sure GZ could chain that attack, and I don't think just one would kill He-Man, and we also have to consider that GZ would be getting attacked through it, but it remains a consideration for me.

So HM has offense and speed, GZ has durability and AoE. That's an oversimplification, but also not a horrible synopsis of advantages.

I'm usually not one to do this sort of thing. That's what the BZ is for. But this is the rare instance where the BZ made me LESS certain of a particular opinion, so I wanted to put it to the forum. Our excellent judges weighed in after the BZ was over, but it whetted my appetite for others to voice their opinion. Have at it.

Igniz
He-Man throws Godzilla to the moon.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by Digi
So HM has offense and speed, GZ has durability and AoE. That's an oversimplification, but also not a horrible synopsis of advantages.

Over and above this is the core argument. one can tank attacks like no joke, and the other can dish it out. A spear that can stab through anything meets a impenetrable shield.

With that said, I think Composite GZ takes it after reading a few of the IDW titles. BTW those IDW titles are insane awesome smile. Glad to have read them, I only wish I could find the Manga's now.

Personally I think when using feats from Heisei Movies, Legendary Movie, Marvel Comics, IDW Comics, and the Millennium Movies is all that is needed to argue a composite GZ. Only good showings from Showa was the flight, martial arts, and breathing in space feats.

Now while He Man has some great strength and sword damage output, I just cannot see his attacks breaking through GZ raw durability to the point where GZ cannot heal or even out right survive any slash attack. I think He Man's best feats were pushing around small moons, and I mean small Mountain size moons. GZ however easy withstood Black Holes a few times, and a continent busting attack in the Legendary series. He withstood a 14 Megaton Nuke as well normal Megaton nukes in the comics. Then we have to include the massive Regen GZ has shown vs Cellular and Molecular attacks.

GZ strength has shown to nearly matched Hercules and Classic Thor in Marvel Comics. A Editor note had GZ one shotting Savage Hulk with a foot stomp too. So GZ strength by Marvel feats is no joke, GZ also shown to lift beings in the 100,000 to 200,000 ton category pretty handily in Heisei. He even slammed Battara with so much force underwater to cause a volcanic quake. Thats impressive considering the water reducing the speed and momentum of any attack. So to think He Man is overpowering GZ easy could be argued as well IMO.

Then we have the range advantage of GZ. The Radiation attack sometimes called a Heat Beam is nuclear fire temperature attack of pure lethal radiation. I just do not see He Man withstanding that kind of attack. The Spiral Beam is a instant win for GZ as it has killed beings that withstand Black Holes easy. It also has concussive force to it too. Enough to send a 90,000+ ton monster flying into space in seconds. It even one shot Mechagodzilla 2 with a blast. this is impressive as Mecha G 2 was designed to withstand the Heat beam and absorb it. Spiral Ray slagged him in one blast. The Spiral Beam is a instant Game changer if GZ decides to use it. It also moves at massively hyper sonic speeds. The beam showed the ability to travel into orbit in less than 2-3 seconds. So I do not see He Man dodging it either.

Then we have the many other cool abilities like Nuclear Pulse, or the fact GZ has shown to generate insane heat from his body in a wide area. Or even the Magnetic properties GZ shown in Showa once too. Disarm He Man of his weapon? Possible I think unless it did have resistance to magnetics.

Anyway GZ should win overall with his blunt, but powerful attacks as well his insane tanking ability.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by Igniz
He-Man throws Godzilla to the moon.

GZ Blows He Man to the moon. If He Man does not blow to pieces first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0qhL13rpIY

Also GZ can fly back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOhlfnnX1po

Points countered smile

krisblaze
Like I concluded after reading your BZ match, Digi, this is a fight where Godzilla would lose 6/10 despite being the more powerful of the two.

It's just a difficult matchup.

CadenceV2
I think GZ wins 8/10 if argued right. He just has superior feats and fought better establish characters to prove it. :/

krisblaze
Originally posted by CadenceV2
I think GZ wins 8/10 if argued right. He just has superior feats and fought better establish characters to prove it. :/

Superior destruction/durability feats doesn't automatically win you a fight.

And He-Man is the one with the highest feats... (It's just that people consider his average, which is lower)

CadenceV2
Originally posted by krisblaze
Superior destruction/durability feats doesn't automatically win you a fight.

And He-Man is the one with the highest feats... (It's just that people consider his average, which is lower)

Highest feats? I read the BZ and saw nothing destructive wise to match the Spiral Ray (as I know it) as far as offensive abilities, and defensive wise GZ has the highest feats by far.

Even He Man's best feats of strength were not that impressive to me. Example, the moon pushing. The shape and roundness of the moons to He Man body makes it seem by art that moon is no bigger than a large mountain. Its nothing size wise strikes me to close to say our moon. Pushing the Mountain is awesome too. But its not that big of a strength gap when Marvel GZ caused Hercules (same guy who lift Manhattan in one feat) to strain to lift just GZ foot coming down. Classic Thor was stated to be in a equal match of raw strength with Marvel GZ. Editor himself had a picture if Savage Hulk being stepped on by GZ. So nowhere is there a huge strength gap with Marvel GZ feats in consideration to me.

Also nothing about He Man's sword shows it can absorb Radiation. He Absorb Solar Energy, like any man made solar panel can. Its Absorb Electricity like any man made lightning rod can. Big deal. Show me it absorbing heat and radiation. Then we can talk on that. Otherwise its blind assumption. There was so much boasting of the swords power, but so little of it shown. Buffy the Vampire Slayer had the most powerful stated magical weapon in the universe. The Slayer Scythe. Guess what? Its not killing GZ. Feats > to unsupported claims.

There was a Argument of the sword piercing GZ. Again so what? The Regen feats of GZ are proven on the Cellular and Molecular level. Oxygen Destroyer is a attack that removes the element of Oxygen from anything. This means it attacks on the molecular scale by destroying any living tissue that needs oxygen. IDW GZ tanks this attack in Half Century War, and Heisei GZ tanked multiple attacks of this stuff in his fight vs Destroyer while having a inner body melt down to boot. Heisei also tanked this attack when he survived it at the beginning of Godzilla Returns.
Add to this many feats of GZ instant healing holes, stabs, and such in his body in seconds. Heck, He Man's sword has the disadvantage too of doing as much stabbing damage to GZ as a ant with a sharp half inch blade can to me. GZ body mass is too much to cut through for that little sword.

Also in no way did I see He Man withstanding radiation or heat that burn hot enough to melt Diamonds. GZ Heat Beam has melted Synthetic Diamonds. His Spiral Ray Beam has one shot monsters who can withstand... oh I said this several times. In no way is He Man tanking that. He has no feats of durability to come close to that damage output.

So in short all He Man has for him is Speed, and Strength. Since GZ can withstand blows more powerful than He Man has dished out, as well the ability to fly back from being thrown in space, I see Strength as pointless. So He Man runs around until he is nailed by a Nuclear Pulse or a Heat Beam. That is the conclusion from the BZ of Digi to what I would argue for GZ.

Digi
Originally posted by krisblaze
Like I concluded after reading your BZ match, Digi, this is a fight where Godzilla would lose 6/10 despite being the more powerful of the two.

It's just a difficult matchup.

I thought it was an interesting take, and I may actually agree.

Digi
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Even He Man's best feats of strength were not that impressive to me. Example, the moon pushing. The shape and roundness of the moons to He Man body makes it seem by art that moon is no bigger than a large mountain.

Large mountains don't affect planetary tide levels.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
There was a Argument of the sword piercing GZ. Again so what?

It's capable of a bit more than simple piercing.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
ep5oh_6D4yY

I brain-farted and didn't use this feat in the fight. But yeah.

...

You're not necessarily wrong. But there's some short-selling going on here.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by Digi
Large mountains don't affect planetary tide levels.



It's capable of a bit more than simple piercing.


I brain-farted and didn't use this feat in the fight. But yeah.

...

You're not necessarily wrong. But there's some short-selling going on here.

The moons affected tides, but the art for size is grossly out of proportion to He Man.

You should have used that feat smile

Don't mean to short sell, just how I seen it as argument.

Digi
Originally posted by CadenceV2
The moons affected tides, but the art for size is grossly out of proportion to He Man.

It's a cartoon from the 80s. The 80s don't give a **** about your proportional sensibilities and adherence to logic in general. stick out tongue

And as mentioned, it was just an oversight that I didn't use that particular video. Remembering everything about a character is hard. There's actually a refutation to it - the snake monster whupped He-Man up and down in their previous encounter - but it's still very relevant to this fight.

MF DELPH
Optimus Prime was once depicted as transforming, with trailer attached, and driving several hundred meters, in a human sized hallway within a small laboratory.

80s Cartoons gave zero f*cks about realism. lol

carver9
Originally posted by Digi
Large mountains don't affect planetary tide levels.



It's capable of a bit more than simple piercing.


I brain-farted and didn't use this feat in the fight. But yeah.

...

You're not necessarily wrong. But there's some short-selling going on here.

Looking at this ft, He man stomps...with ease.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by CadenceV2


GZ can fly back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOhlfnnX1po





???


What in the world did those guys smoke back then?!?

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
Looking at this ft, He man stomps...with ease. The feat is definitely impressive, but certainly doesn't warrant He-Man 'stomping' at all... Let alone 'with ease'.

...Unless you think big G's only options are close-range/biting attacks that subsequently allow He-Man to just stroll inside his mouth. srsly

carver9
So you don't think one of those strikes could be devastating to Godzilla?

Galan007
Could be. IF Godzilla simply walked up and tried to bite He-Man.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by carver9
So you don't think one of those strikes could be devastating to Godzilla?
If it was not for half his healing feats, it could end him, but if it does not then I can see GZ recover from it.

But that's if GZ lets him get in the mouth, he can easy repel He Man with Nuclear Pulses or just heat beam him at point blank. Many versions of GZ are very intelegent.

Supermutant
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Also GZ can fly back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOhlfnnX1po

Points countered smile

GZ can't even see where he is going. laughing out loud http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs9/i/2006/053/5/9/GODZILLA_by_blacklilyfae.gif

CadenceV2
Originally posted by Supermutant
GZ can't even see where he is going. laughing out loud http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs9/i/2006/053/5/9/GODZILLA_by_blacklilyfae.gif

As someone said earlier about 80s magic, GZ was filled with that B Rated Movie Magic smile

Stoic
I question He-Man's ability to take on an opponent like Godzilla. He had trouble with an ancient Dragon in his 80's cartoon run. It was to the point that He- Man was nearly powerless against the beast. The Dragon looked to be smaller than Godzilla, and less powerful as well. I would argue for Godzilla taking this for many of the same reasons that Cadence brought up.

Badabing
Godzilla wins. sneer

He Man is a nerd. Digi is a vegan, Mac using, mutant loving, card carrying PETA member!


http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/kmcprofile/th_haters-gonna-hate-godzilla_zps12229b26.gif

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/kmcprofile/th_tumblr_mnb87rsKgB1s5or7ko1_500_zps20215840.gif

oTItRfN-LO8

Galan007
"...And Godzookyyyyy."

A moar badass lyrick haz nevah byn droppd. thumb up

CadenceV2
God I hated the Hanna Barbara GZ. Loved the Godzilla Animated Series on Zilla Jr though. just recently got the whole 2 seasons on DVD for me and the kid. Good stuff.

leonidas
sooo.....still waiting on all the arguments that i DIDN'T make in the bz.... lol i was expecting some great feats that i should have argued but didn't but all i've seen are rehashes of everything i posted.....

CadenceV2
Originally posted by leonidas
sooo.....still waiting on all the arguments that i DIDN'T make in the bz.... lol i was expecting some great feats that i should have argued but didn't but all i've seen are rehashes of everything i posted.....

It's not so much as different feats, just how they are represented. smile

Also no Legendary feats? The tanking of the contenent busting asteroid was insane!

leonidas
nah, it really wasn't. he didn't actually 'tank' anything. he survived it and he was driven below the crust to feed on radiation from the core. not sure where the idea that he tanked it comes from. the asteroid didn't kill all the dinosaurs either, so it don't see why it's a big deal at all tbh. it's not like he took the impact or anything.....he has FAR greater durability feats than getting lucky enough to avoid the impact of an asteroid....

CadenceV2
Look at the feat. The picture shows the asteroid above Godzilla and he muto he just blasted. Then we see a page of a huge explosion from the impact that spans a continent. Then next panel we see the blasted Muto fall in a earth fissure. GZ in the same panel is standing pretty wih no hint of damage. Thus he took no damage from a meteor that by some scientist theories split the super continent, changed the earths atmosphere forever, and shown on page to span a continent while GZ was at ground zero.

That's a feat. A damn good one at that.

CadenceV2
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11117/111172491/3980278-gz+vs+asteroid+%281%29.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11117/111172491/3980279-gz+vs+asteroid+%282%29.png

I guess we can ignore the art of this feat or the event it played in science theories, but then we should ignore half the feats of He Man as well to be fair smile

carver9
Originally posted by CadenceV2
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11117/111172491/3980278-gz+vs+asteroid+%281%29.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11117/111172491/3980279-gz+vs+asteroid+%282%29.png

I guess we can ignore the art of this feat or the event it played in science theories, but then we should ignore half the feats of He Man as well to be fair smile

thumb up

That hit him dead on. Didn't know he was that durable. The only way to deny he was hit by it is by hinting Godzilla has a form of super speed.

CadenceV2
Thanks. I like that comic too. Godzilla Awakening and shown to be total canon as the prequel.

Epicurus
I think the permian impact is a debatable feat. However what's not debatable is that comicbook Goji can withstand h-bombs going off over his hide, as was shown in the Castle Bravo explosion scene.

leonidas
Originally posted by CadenceV2
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11117/111172491/3980278-gz+vs+asteroid+%281%29.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11117/111172491/3980279-gz+vs+asteroid+%282%29.png

I guess we can ignore the art of this feat or the event it played in science theories, but then we should ignore half the feats of He Man as well to be fair smile

you're exactly right--godzilla WAS standing fine. no crater impact, no smoke, no nothing aside from a small fissure that was created. the asteroid was shown APPROACHING, but could easily just be passing over them. if you think he actually tanked the asteroid itself, i don't know what else to tell you. the asteroid left an impact crater more than a 100 miles in diameter. godzilla is standing EXACTLY as he was. not sure how anyone could conclude he was even close to the actual impact site.

LordofBrooklyn
I like He-Man but I HATE, Digi.

What to do?

CadenceV2
Your right, let's ignore the fact the meteor was shown right above them, the fact the blast covers a continent area, and the fact we see a plume of smoke with a fissure below, same fissure that a muto fell through.

Let's ignore all that because it seems unrealistic.... But surging a Black Hole in IDW is ok then?

Sorry, seems you and I just see things different then.

Galan007
if you have to edit the bejesus out of a scan via MS Paint just to try and prove your point, then you may want to reevaluate how valid your point was to begin with.

i say this because the scans/panels *should* be able to speak for themselves--reader editing/break-downs *shouldn't* be required if a feat is cut-and-dry. /shrug

leonidas
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Your right, let's ignore the fact the meteor was shown right above them, the fact the blast covers a continent area, and the fact we see a plume of smoke with a fissure below, same fissure that a muto fell through.

Let's ignore all that because it seems unrealistic.... But surging a Black Hole in IDW is ok then?

Sorry, seems you and I just see things different then.

lol

i'm not ignoring it because it seems unrealistic--i'm ignoring it because the scene is highly ambiguous and the facts do not support his having been struck by the meteor. like i said, 100 mile wide crater, cloud that covered the earth and he's standing there like nothing happened? lol believe what you'd like. that makes utterly no sense to me and is easily explained away. which is exactly why i never used that feat in the bz. but i think you're right on--no need to apologize, but yeah, we certainly don't see godzilla feats the same way at all.

Originally posted by Galan007
if you have to edit the bejesus out of a scan via MS Paint just to try and prove your point, then you may want to reevaluate how valid your point was to begin with.

i say this because the scans/panels *should* be able to speak for themselves--reader editing/break-downs *shouldn't* be required if a feat is cut-and-dry. /shrug

and this. thumb up

CadenceV2
Originally posted by leonidas
lol

i'm not ignoring it because it seems unrealistic--i'm ignoring it because the scene is highly ambiguous and the facts do not support his having been struck by the meteor. like i said, 100 mile wide crater, cloud that covered the earth and he's standing there like nothing happened? lol believe what you'd like. that makes utterly no sense to me and is easily explained away. which is exactly why i never used that feat in the bz. but i think you're right on--no need to apologize, but yeah, we certainly don't see godzilla feats the same way at all.



and this. thumb up


Fair enough smile

Digi
I think our match has done more to stir the pot on these two characters more than anything in a long time, so I'm happy. They both deserve way more exposure.

Also, that particular controversial feat or not, GZ has epic durability.

leonidas
thumb up

krisblaze
Originally posted by Digi
I think our match has done more to stir the pot on these two characters more than anything in a long time, so I'm happy. They both deserve way more exposure.

Also, that particular controversial feat or not, GZ has epic durability.

I loved your BZ, but I'd rather die than see composite shit in the vs forums.

Comics only please big grin

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.