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Current Hulk and DCNU Superman.

Current Invincible, all 5 of them.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/148/e/7/hulk_and_superman_fail_by_wya-d3hf8mc.jpg

Battle starts on earth, but cannot go past the moon.

Superman solos.

What Carver said, Superman solos the 5 boys and Hulk at the same time.

Really doubt he can solo them, not by feats of both parties.

After all if Omni Man can beat Supreme, same guy who stalemated Marvels own Gladiator in a canon crossover to Supreme, then I see little reason for Hulk to solo five top of the line Viltrumites.

Anyway let's get real debate in here

No way Superman solos 5 Invincibles... It would be close, I'd be cheering for Invincible though.

Well...what can Invincible do?

He's just not as strong as these guys.

There's 5 of him, sure, but Hulk and Superman's feats just blow him out of the water-

Originally posted by krisblaze
Well...what can Invincible do?

He's just not as strong as these guys.

There's 5 of him, sure, but Hulk and Superman's feats just blow him out of the water-

True, we'll some feats. Hulk and Superman have better strength feats, however Invincible has the durability feats to hang from what I seen. Not many people at all been able to harm Invincible other than other Viltrumites post Viltrumite War.

He has tanked heat that can easily equal the stars, nukes, and a exploding planet. All with no damage in all those instances.

Then there is the speed factor of Invincible where New 52 can for sure keep up, I do not think Hulk will as easily. Sure Hulk can react to fast foes, but not in Invincible or Superman speeds. World breaker is another story as he emits gamma waves so speed wise does not need to keep up, but base hulk not so much.

There is also the fact Invincible has dealt with Hulk like being by flying him into space at super speed where said being was easily overpowered. He should be able to do this again.

Strength wise he is not that bad either. He can level mountains, as well fly through a planet. He has shown the strength to explode a large portion of the moon with Ramming attack.

Also there is the mention that Invincible's alternate selves have stated to kill Spawn in there universe, and it took only 20 Invincibles to level the entire Image Universe roster. This included beings like Tech Jacket, Downing Spawn, Darkness, Witchblade, Dynomo Five, Savage Dragon and crew, Young Blood, and the Invincible cast. Out of 20 Invincibles against all that 8 remain standing fine.

So 5 current Invincibles IMO should even with Hulk and New 52 Superman.

I've read the invincible comics, no need for a recap...

Invincible doesn't come close to matching DCNU Superman in speed.

If they somehow manage to move the Hulk to space then sure, he's BFR'd. Congratulations. You proved that 5 Invincibles can get the Hulk into space

Originally posted by krisblaze
I've read the invincible comics, no need for a recap...

Invincible doesn't come close to matching DCNU Superman in speed.

If they somehow manage to move the Hulk to space then sure, he's BFR'd. Congratulations. You proved that 5 Invincibles can get the Hulk into space

What is DCNU Supes best speed feats? I know he can fly FTL but so can Viltrumites. What is DCNU best combat speed feats?

Originally posted by CadenceV2
What is DCNU Supes best speed feats? I know he can fly FTL but so can Viltrumites. What is DCNU best combat speed feats?
Fighting the Flash and fighting Orion.

I haven't seen Invincible do anything like that in-combat actually.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Fighting the Flash and fighting Orion.

I haven't seen Invincible do anything like that in-combat actually.


Was either battle stated to be fought at speeds faster than Invincible was? Sounds like your assuming they were Lightspeed fights by default.

I know Invincible fights at speeds that travel planet distance in seconds if less.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Was either battle stated to be fought at speeds faster than Invincible was? Sounds like your assuming they were Lightspeed fights by default.

I know Invincible fights at speeds that travel planet distance in seconds if less.
Well, the Flash was fighting at his top speed and Superman was still landing hits (not full on blows mind you, but glancing hits).

The Orion fight was creating sonic booms with every punch, at least.

Which fight?

Invincible won't hesitate to kill, so that's a huge advantage for him at least

Originally posted by krisblaze
Well, the Flash was fighting at his top speed and Superman was still landing hits (not full on blows mind you, but glancing hits).

The Orion fight was creating sonic booms with every punch, at least.

Which fight?

Invincible won't hesitate to kill, so that's a huge advantage for him at least

The best examples of speed fights for Mark would include his fight with Omni Man. In that first major fight they were battling from mid America all the way to the North Pole in a few panels.

Mark vs Conquest is another example as Mark was fighting so fast that Cecil stated instant Teleportation would not keep up. They also stated you have to slow satellite scans of the fight, and still be 8 minuets behind the battle.

In the Viltrumite we see Viltrumites battle from one side of the planets space to the next within what seems seconds.

Omni Man and Allen done the same as above.

There was also the Fight wit Omni Man and Invincible vs three Viltrumites on a alien planet, battling at insane speeds across said planet.

Omni Man also had a speed blitz fight with Supreme who has shown Lightspeed attacks as well.

There is also the many showings of just fun things like catching a baseball thrown so fast to travel the world, getting comics in a split second from one side of the city to the other, and general speeds of navigating the planet in one panel, or flying several light years across space in two weeks time for habitable planets.

There is also a handful of speed blitzing feats where Mark kills or tries to kill a slower foe. Like The Nasa guy with the Squids. He just blitzed him and punched his head off in Instant. I love that panel.

I'm not sure how quantifiable Marks feats are, but if they can travel lighters while navigating they should have Superman level speeds.

This was just travelling while they fought, and it was really just Mark getting punched across the continent.

I don't see why Cecil would say that, Eve had no problem catching up and they were barely moving

But you're right, there are a plethora of super-speed stuff, that's not what I'm disputing!

But no, those do not equal Superman level speeds. Having super-speed does not make you as fast as Superman...

Originally posted by krisblaze
This was just travelling while they fought, and it was really just Mark getting punched across the continent.

I don't see why Cecil would say that, Eve had no problem catching up and they were barely moving

But you're right, there are a plethora of super-speed stuff, that's not what I'm disputing!

But no, those do not equal Superman level speeds. Having super-speed does not make you as fast as Superman...

I think anyone who can fly and punch at speeds while traveling the world surface in a few panels, that's reaction and combat speed as it is. Reaction speed is also important as that shows how fast they can, well, react to speed attacks.

Also I remember the Superman vs Flash fight, IIRC Flash was far from Lightspeed at the time. Unless I am referring to another earlier confrontation.

Also Eve was not teleported to the fight till Conquest already had Invincible pretty much beaten and they both stayed in the city they ended up in. There was another instance of Cecil using instant teleportation to take down Invincible before he flew across the country and could not keep up at all. He was always behind till Invincible stopped.

Anyway I do not think Superman is for sure way faster than Viltrumites till I see an clear statement or showing of Lightspeed fighting rather than who they fought. After all Supreme is Lightspeed in attacks and kept up with Marvels Gladiator who is light speed in fighting. Omni Man beaten Supereme in an all out fight. If we accept Flash fighting Superman at top speeds, the we should do the same for Omni Man vs Supreme. Viltrumites are then more than Supermans speed level if we go by that reasoning.

I'm not referring to their first fight where Superman tagged him.

Yeah, when Cecil was trying to hit him with the short-range ear device. He needed to teleport to Invincible's exact location, and Invincible didn't get away until the last time. And let me ask you, how do you teleport to someone's exact location for more than a second if they're going at say 300 miles an hour? That's not evidence of Invincible's speed, that's just how it would go.

That's just ABC logic, which doesn't fly here. And just because Gladiator has fought at lightspeed doesn't mean he always fights at lightspeed. Even Gambit has kept up with him

It's not the same because the Flash needed to go as fast as he could to make sure that Superman's punches didn't kill him, but he couldn't go fast enough to dodge them completely. It's not the same at all...

This could be a win for Invincible, but I just can't agree with these arguments.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I'm not referring to their first fight where Superman tagged him.

Yeah, when Cecil was trying to hit him with the short-range ear device. He needed to teleport to Invincible's exact location, and Invincible didn't get away until the last time. And let me ask you, how do you teleport to someone's exact location for more than a second if they're going at say 300 miles an hour? That's not evidence of Invincible's speed, that's just how it would go.

That's just ABC logic, which doesn't fly here. And just because Gladiator has fought at lightspeed doesn't mean he always fights at lightspeed. Even Gambit has kept up with him

It's not the same because the Flash needed to go as fast as he could to make sure that Superman's punches didn't kill him, but he couldn't go fast enough to dodge them completely. It's not the same at all...

This could be a win for Invincible, but I just can't agree with these arguments.


Cecil ear Device was very large in. The range was stated not that great but was shown to cover a quarter of a mile pretty easily as Invincible flew from the underground base and then shown to drop pretty far away from the base.

Your kinda using ABC logic yourself with the Flash and Orion fight. So if your best argument of Superman being faster is fighting Flash who runs so slow at times to be tagged by Captain Cold, Weather Wizard, and many others who are nowhere near Lightspeed is not that great of a argument of Supes fighting any faster than Mark can react.

Unless stated the battles were fought at light speed, it's assumption. Your using ABC argument of Superman fighting Flash at a unspecified speed as an Lightspeed feat. So he beats Invincible. I did the exact same showing Omni Man keeping up easily with Supreme. Or Supreme keeping up with Gladiator. These. Image characters have fought super fast beings as well, so by your reasoning they should be all considered fighting at top speed as well like Superman and Flash yes?


I personally think Superman is not light speed at all. Even pre DCNU Supes evenly matched Black Adam who in the was stated to top out at Mach 500 in speed in a race vs Jay Garrick.

So in short IMO the speeds of Supes vs Flash is no more valid than Omni Man vs Supreme. However by feats both Mark and Clark are pretty close from what I seen.

When was it stated that Flash was fighting Superman at top speed? Scans.

Originally posted by carver9
When was it stated that Flash was fighting Superman at top speed? Scans.

Yeah that is what I am asking for too

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Cecil ear Device was very large in. The range was stated not that great but was shown to cover a quarter of a mile pretty easily as Invincible flew from the underground base and then shown to drop pretty far away from the base.

It's not proof of Invincible being faster than instant teleportation. And Regardless of how was he was moving, Cecil is a human being who needs to actually step through those portals. So it's not instanteneous.

It's simply invincible being ported on and then flying out of the radius while in pain

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Your kinda using ABC logic yourself with the Flash and Orion fight. So if your best argument of Superman being faster is fighting Flash who runs so slow at times to be tagged by Captain Cold, Weather Wizard, and many others who are nowhere near Lightspeed is not that great of a argument of Supes fighting any faster than Mark can react.
No, no I'm not.

I'm saying that the Flash was still hit when he's running his fastest.

The Flash isn't running his fastest when he's fighting those guys, and you clearly know nothing about them

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Unless stated the battles were fought at light speed, it's assumption. Your using ABC argument of Superman fighting Flash at a unspecified speed as an Lightspeed feat. So he beats Invincible. I did the exact same showing Omni Man keeping up easily with Supreme. Or Supreme keeping up with Gladiator. These. Image characters have fought super fast beings as well, so by your reasoning they should be all considered fighting at top speed as well like Superman and Flash yes?
No, that is not how my reasoning goes at all.

a) It was not Invincible himself.

b) Supreme does not have lightspeed feats himself.

c) You're using Gladiator's speed to prove Supreme's speed, to prove Omni-Man's speed to prove Invincible's speed... If Invincible fought Gladiator and Gladiator said that he was moving as fast as he can, then you would've had something.

d) Speed is the Flash's main power. It's not something that the writer can 'forget' unlike Superman or Invincible's combat-speed.

e) Following your logic, most humans have lightspeed reactions. Watch;

Wolverine kept up with Gladiator. Humans have kept up with Wolverine. Dogs have kept up with humans. Dogs have lightspeed combat!

Originally posted by CadenceV2
I personally think Superman is not light speed at all. Even pre DCNU Supes evenly matched Black Adam who in the was stated to top out at Mach 500 in speed in a race vs Jay Garrick.
Okay, then you're wrong. Simple as that.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
So in short IMO the speeds of Supes vs Flash is no more valid than Omni Man vs Supreme. However by feats both Mark and Clark are pretty close from what I seen.
Okay.

Then in your opinion third-hand feats are as valid as first-hand feats.

Not to sound snooty, but you kinda back peddling here.

Pain is not the issue with Mark, it was the equilibrium. He could not fly rich with the signal, so out pacing a normal human being with instant teleportation is a damn good feat when they have a device that knocks you out of the sky in a quarter mile radius.

Proof at all Flash was moving at top speeds? Other wise it's just BS opponion.

I was not trying to argue BS feats of ABC logic. You did by going down that road. I was initially using feats. Not who fought who like you did

Overall we will agree to disagree, but you started the the argument of Character A fought Fast character B so in turn must be as fast. That was all you.

You're confused.

Mark fighting someone at superspeed is proof of superspeed.

Mark fighting someone who fought someone who fought someone who at one point used superspeed, is not proof of him being as fast as the someone who once used superspeed.

Superman wins.

This is damn near spite

Originally posted by krisblaze
You're confused.

Mark fighting someone at superspeed is proof of superspeed.

Mark fighting someone who fought someone who fought someone who at one point used superspeed, is not proof of him being as fast as the someone who once used superspeed.

Yes. And the fact Mark is shown as equals with his genetic father Omni Man, matching Conquest in their second battle who trumped Omni Man, as well other Viltrumites of the same powers, then yes Mark is insane fast on his own. I only bring up Omni Man and Supreme to show what Viltrumites are capable of. By feats Mark is equals with his Father in everyway by feats and accomplishments. Which is more evidence to his own.

If we ignore the who beat who garbage, then by raw speed feats Mark is more than a match for Superman's own speed.

Superman has been killed by fists.

Invincible has fists.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Yes. And the fact Mark is shown as equals with his genetic father Omni Man, matching Conquest in their second battle who trumped Omni Man, as well other Viltrumites of the same powers, then yes Mark is insane fast on his own. I only bring up Omni Man and Supreme to show what Viltrumites are capable of. By feats Mark is equals with his Father in everyway by feats and accomplishments. Which is more evidence to his own.

If we ignore the who beat who garbage, then by raw speed feats Mark is more than a match for Superman's own speed.

We don't equate feats that way on KMC.

Beta Ray Bill isn't given every feat Thor has.

I agree with your overall argument that if Omni-Man displays super-speed then by a logical extension Mark should be capable of similar super-speed feats.

I disagree with your argument that Omni-Man has lightspeed reactions because he fought Supreme, who fought Gladiator, who has one incident of lightspeed combat

Originally posted by krisblaze
We don't equate feats that way on KMC.

Beta Ray Bill isn't given every feat Thor has.

I agree with your overall argument that if Omni-Man displays super-speed then by a logical extension Mark should be capable of similar super-speed feats.

I disagree with your argument that Omni-Man has lightspeed reactions because he fought Supreme, who fought Gladiator, who has one incident of lightspeed combat

Gladiator only has one? I thought the War of Kings had like two in itself. I never read it so I cannot say for certain. I will recheck but I know Supreme over all has I think 2 stated Lightspeed attack moments. I have to find those scans to see.

Anyway you read the Invincible Comics and seen the stand alone speed feats which are pretty good. So I will leave on that

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Gladiator only has one? I thought the War of Kings had like two in itself. I never read it so I cannot say for certain. I will recheck but I know Supreme over all has I think 2 stated Lightspeed attack moments. I have to find those scans to see.

Anyway you read the Invincible Comics and seen the stand alone speed feats which are pretty good. So I will leave on that

Yes, but like I said, super-speed does not make you fast enough to keep up with Superman.

Quicksilver has super-speed but would never be able to touch Superman.

True but Invincible has better speed feats than QS too

Originally posted by CadenceV2
True but Invincible has better speed feats than QS too

Yes, and I never claimed otherwise.

The point was that having super-speed alone does not mean that you can match superman in speed.

Hulk and Superman win.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
The best examples of speed fights for Mark would include his fight with Omni Man. In that first major fight they were battling from mid America all the way to the North Pole in a few panels.

Mark vs Conquest is another example as Mark was fighting so fast that Cecil stated instant Teleportation would not keep up. They also stated you have to slow satellite scans of the fight, and still be 8 minuets behind the battle.

In the Viltrumite we see Viltrumites battle from one side of the planets space to the next within what seems seconds.

Omni Man and Allen done the same as above.

There was also the Fight wit Omni Man and Invincible vs three Viltrumites on a alien planet, battling at insane speeds across said planet.

Omni Man also had a speed blitz fight with Supreme who has shown Lightspeed attacks as well.

There is also the many showings of just fun things like catching a baseball thrown so fast to travel the world, getting comics in a split second from one side of the city to the other, and general speeds of navigating the planet in one panel, or flying several light years across space in two weeks time for habitable planets.

There is also a handful of speed blitzing feats where Mark kills or tries to kill a slower foe. Like The Nasa guy with the Squids. He just blitzed him and punched his head off in Instant. I love that panel.

I'm not sure how quantifiable Marks feats are, but if they can travel lighters while navigating they should have Superman level speeds.
Well, Superman went from Pluto to Earth in less than one minute and arrived before than a cloaked teleportation.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_speedfeat0qsu98.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_speedfeat1y3uc7.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_speedfeat2xjuyq.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_speedfeat3x3u20.jpg

Its both a speed feat and reaction feat. Because he has to search entire planet before he could reach the island.Originally posted by carver9
When was it stated that Flash was fighting Superman at top speed? Scans.
Flash was running at top speed here to the point he covered the planet six times over.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2404108-flashsixtime1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2404109-flashsixtime2.jpg

Do you think Invincible can keep up with Flash at that speed? Because Batman ordered Flash to run at his top speed to burn out the venom in his body. And current Flash can operate in femtoseconds.

A bunch of other speed feats. Like a weakened Superman going to sun and blitzing Lex back before he could get up after being back at full power.

http://i.imgur.com/XGDrXFh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XlxXaqp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BRJ39iN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yYMT0xZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Op3IINp.jpg

Or flying around Earth three hundred times in a very short time after Apollo amped him with a sunlight blast.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3773690-0q.png

And his reaction time is so fast that he can process data that supercomputers could have taken years to process IN SECONDS.

http://i.imgur.com/SSY6trJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/L50cCAG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Cl8BuXc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wmvtboM.jpg

By definition a supercomputer can process data at nanoseconds.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercomputer

So you get an idea of how fast he is.