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Each Company has monopolies on certain types of concepts and characters.
List them, add them, rate them, switch them out if you dont agree...

Mutants-Marvel

Alien heroes (on earth)-DC

Sidekicks-DC

Teen heroes-Marvel

Science and scientists-Marvel

Established future-DC

Speedsters-DC

Magic-???

Gods and best defined pantheons-Marvel

WWII heroes-DC

Street levelers-Marvel

Just to start things off...

Interesting on teen heroes being MArvel, but sidekicks being DC - stepping out of the shadows of their mentors?

Also:

Female heroes - ??
Telepaths - ??

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Interesting on teen heroes being MArvel, but sidekicks being DC - stepping out of the shadows of their mentors?

Also:

Female heroes - ??
Telepaths - ??
Marvel's teen heroes arent really sidekicks, but DC has a bunch.

Telepathy, psionics, TP? I think Marvel has the edge.

No idea on female heroes.

Also undecided on present day space. Both have big name characters, well established continuities/races...

I forgot:

Multiverse-DC

Mutants - Marvel - Though DC had the first Mutant, Captain Comet

Alien heroes (on earth) - DC

Sidekicks - DC

Teen heroes - Split, if you think about Teen Titans

Science and scientists - Marvel, by far, they are a Science Universe

Established future - Split, both have enough alternate Futures

Speedsters - DC

Magic - DC is more magical than science imo

Gods and best defined pantheons - Split, don't forget New Gods and WonderWoman and the Greek Pantheon

WWII heroes - DC, though CA is a force to be respected

Street levelers - Marvel

Universal importance of heroes - DC, in DC Heroes play major roles in their Universes, they don't have as many abstracts, this role is reserved for the heroes instead

Universal, Abstract, hierarchy - Marvel, Celestials, M-Bodies of Abstracts etc.

Good stuff Prof.

Good point on the future. I was thinking of the LoSH when i chose. That future's pretty solid, as a whole. It keeps getting tweaked to death, though!

I agree with Batman P list minus the Universe importance and the Gods.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with Batman P list minus the Universe importance and the Gods.

The most common Pantheons are for Marvel the Greek one and the Norse one. For DC it is the Greek one and the New Gods, both are very well established, though there are other Gods roaming around in both.

As for the Universal Importance.

Superman is for example the most important being in the DC Universe, take Final Crisis and Infinite Crisis, "everything comes from Superman". Also Kyle Rayner, Hal Jordan, Flash, they all performed Actions that changed the Whole Multiverse, they are the "Abstracts" that change things. Kyle as Ion, Hal as Parallax, Flash in Flashpoint. Also if you look at the Multiversal defense the DC Universe has, you won't find an army of Celestials or Galactus or whatever Abstracts Marvel has, you will find Heroes, united by Monitors to safe the Omniverse.

In Marvel, if something major happens, the Abstracts will gather and play their part, Watchers, Celestials, Galactus and LT.

Then how did that make marvel less in the universal/multiversal?

Marvel had specific people per specific task vs DC supers doing double duty

Plus marvel may not be uni/multiversal in power but that didn't mean they are slouches in that respect, look at Infinity/Original Sin/the whole incursion stuff they're dealing with

Well thats fine, i want different opinions!

I kinda feel like Captain America alone refutes any claim that DC holds a monopoly on WWII heroes, to say nothing of the rest of the Invaders. I get that DC has it's own share though, but that's exactly what Cap IS as a character concept...

My opinion is that Cap's the best example of a WWII character, but DC has a more well defined era.

Marvel has the 'Healing Factor' thing covered.

Originally posted by riv6672
Each Company has monopolies on certain types of concepts and characters.
List them, add them, rate them, switch them out if you dont agree...

Mutants-Marvel

Alien heroes (on earth)-DC

Sidekicks-DC

Teen heroes-Marvel

Science and scientists-Marvel

Established future-DC

Speedsters-DC

Magic-???

Gods and best defined pantheons-Marvel

WWII heroes-DC

Street levelers-Marvel

Just to start things off...

Geniuses and Streets, DC has the edge, IMO.

Magic too.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Geniuses and Streets, DC has the edge, IMO. Really? I would think in either category there would be way too many examples to give one company the edge. Didn't you have a thread a while back about DC vs Marvel geniuses and there were an obvious ton of characters to use for both companies?

Same thing goes for streets.

&golgo13

Completely disagree.
Marvel has some if the best scientists in comics.
DC has the most prominent street leveler in Batman, but Marvel has the better defined street level scene.
Thanks, though!

Originally posted by Existere
Really? I would think in either category there would be way too many examples to give one company the edge. Didn't you have a thread a while back about DC vs Marvel geniuses and there were an obvious ton of characters to use for both companies?

Same thing goes for streets.

Yeah, I created a few. And, IMO, the DC had the edge in terms of depth and formidably, even though Marvel has the 2 premier super geniuses, Doom and Reed.

Originally posted by riv6672
&golgo13

Completely disagree.
Marvel has some if the best scientists in comics.
DC has the most prominent street leveler in Batman, but Marvel has the better defined street level scene.
Thanks, though!

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t547294.html

If you think Marvel has the edge, explain yourself. I see things differently.

Here is the one Existere is talking about.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=589412&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by riv6672
&golgo13

Completely disagree.
Marvel has some if the best scientists in comics.
DC has the most prominent street leveler in Batman, but Marvel has the better defined street level scene.
Thanks, though!

I don't know about the street scene. Batman family alone can balance things out: Nightwing, Batman, Robin, Azrael, Batgirl, Batwoman, etc...

And that's not including the Wildstorm streets that are now apart of DCU and Green Arrow, etc...

Just looking for opinions. Wasnt looking to change your mind, just explaining why i disagree.

Are you including DC's entire history? Pre-Crisis Dr. Sivana, Brainiac, Luthor, and Ultra Humanite have some insane feats that put them right along most of Marvel's.

Yup. Looking at everything, good question.

Super science has been a big part of DC. Along with horror, western, World War 2 type stories, and science fiction. Mystery In Space, All-Star Squadron, All-Star Western, Freedom Fighters (Uncle Sam), Sgt. Rock, just to name a few titles.

In terms of teens, it's pretty much a split. Marvel has the Young Avengers and all the various X-teams. DC has Teen Titans, Titans, and Legion of Super-Heroes.

Originally posted by riv6672
Each Company has monopolies on certain types of concepts and characters.
List them, add them, rate them, switch them out if you dont agree...

Mutants-Marvel

Alien heroes (on earth)-DC

Sidekicks-DC

Teen heroes-Marvel

Science and scientists-Marvel

Established future-DC

Speedsters-DC

Magic-???

Gods and best defined pantheons-Marvel

WWII heroes-DC

Street levelers-Marvel

Just to start things off...

Another interesting topic!

I'd agree with almost everything here...I'd actually put Marvel ahead in the magic category, but it's iffy (where are we drawing the line on what's magic? Iron Fist and Shang Chi have been said to use "chi magic", for example). If we're talking straight spell-casting, incantation-based magic, I think DC gets the win.

It is tough to argue against the WW2 behemoth that is Captain America, but I'm fairly ignorant of DC's WW2 tapestry so I have no argument to make.

I'll add one:

Catch-phrases - Marvel

How many Marvel books are mystic? Because DC has a lot of them. Constantine, Trinity of Sin, Phantom Stranger, Pandora, Swamp Thing, Justice League Dark, Klarion coming up, etc...

Originally posted by Golgo13
How many Marvel books are mystic? Because DC has a lot of them. Constantine, Trinity of Sin, Phantom Stranger, Pandora, Swamp Thing, Justice League Dark, Klarion coming up, etc...

Wasn't going by books, was going by characters....Dr. Strange, Baron Mordo, Dormammu, Nightmare, Ghost Rider (Ketch), Ghost Rider (Blaze), John Blaze (sans Ghost Rider), Lilith and all the Lilin...really a large number of GR spooks...Loki, Thor, and ALL the Asgardians (whose powers are always said to be magic-based)..

Magic is kind of an iffy thing to pin down, imo.

DC has (Classic/Real) LOBO so they win on the BadAss scale.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Wasn't going by books, was going by characters....Dr. Strange, Baron Mordo, Dormammu, Nightmare, Ghost Rider (Ketch), Ghost Rider (Blaze), John Blaze (sans Ghost Rider), Lilith and all the Lilin...really a large number of GR spooks...Loki, Thor, and ALL the Asgardians (whose powers are always said to be magic-based)..

Magic is kind of an iffy thing to pin down, imo.

Well, if either company has a larger amount of books, that means (sometimes) that their are more mystics/mages that will show up. I looked at their recent previews and Marvel only has one, which is Thor. I hope Avengers of the Supernatural gets a book, because that will balance out Justice League Dark.

Others who have had books are Lucifer, Tim Hunter, Dr. Fate, Shadowpact, etc...

Originally posted by Golgo13
Well, if either company has a larger amount of books, that means (sometimes) that their are more mystics/mages that will show up. I looked at their recent previews and Marvel only has one, which is Thor. I hope Avengers of the Supernatural gets a book, because that will balance out Justice League Dark.

Others who have had books are Lucifer, Tim Hunter, Dr. Fate, Shadowpact, etc...

*shrug* I'm too out of the current loop to argue books, so I'll assume you're correct in that. I was just thinking of magical beings, not titles.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
*shrug* I'm too out of the current loop to argue books, so I'll assume you're correct in that. I was just thinking of magical beings, not titles.

I think it's pretty hard to know how many mystics are in each company without keeping track of it.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Another interesting topic!

Thanks!

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
It is tough to argue against the WW2 behemoth that is Captain America, but I'm fairly ignorant of DC's WW2 tapestry so I have no argument to make.

Good choice of words in tapestry.
DCs WWII characters have spawned legacy characters and descendant characters up the wazoo...

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
I'll add one:

Catch-phrases - Marvel

Good one, True Believer!

Top Tiers?

Abstracts?

Teleporters?

You tell us.

You tell us.

You tell us.

You started this thread. You tell me.

You're right, i did start the thread...



...and nowhere did i say, "ask me questions instead of providing examples".

Originally posted by Golgo13
I think it's pretty hard to know how many mystics are in each company without keeping track of it.

Certainly fair to say, which is why I'm all ears. That being said, you have yet to convince me.




I don't doubt it!

I always liked how their characters were Amazing, Incredible, Mighty, Uncanny...

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Certainly fair to say, which is why I'm all ears. That being said, you have yet to convince me.




I don't doubt it!





Between Vertigo and Mainstream DC, I think DC has a more defined magical community. You just listed several magic beings, which anyone can do. I judge based on books, which features a wide variety of magical beings.

Originally posted by riv6672
I always liked how their characters were Amazing, Incredible, Mighty, Uncanny...

I always loved that. You can almost picture somebody (or several people) coming up with a character and then having an eventual "Okay, so what's the adjective hook?" meeting.





Many of the characters I listed had their own books with their own score of magical beings, and it can grow or shrink depending on how we're defining "magic". This is why I said I think DC takes it in straight-laced, incantation-based magic. I think Marvel has more "magical" or "mystical" beings.

Baron Mordo, Dormammu, and Nightmare had their own series?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Baron Mordo, Dormammu, and Nightmare had their own series?

I say "many", you read "all". This is where I start losing interest.

Ok, so how are you coming to your conclusion, then?

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt I always loved that. You can almost picture somebody (or several people) coming up with a character and then having an eventual "Okay, so what's the adjective hook?" meeting.


hahaha!!!


Many of the characters I listed had their own books with their own score of magical beings, and it can grow or shrink depending on how we're defining "magic". This is why I said I think DC takes it in straight-laced, incantation-based magic. I think Marvel has more "magical" or "mystical" beings.

I see what you're saying. Good luck on convincing golgo13, though.
He's just going to keep answering you with questions...
.

Originally posted by Golgo13
I think it's pretty hard to know how many mystics are in each company without keeping track of it.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Ok, so how are you coming to your conclusion, then?

Right, so we're done then.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Right, so we're done then.

I guess they're is no conclusion.

Originally posted by Golgo13
I guess they're is no conclusion.
All kidding aside, not really, no. Magic is a tough call.
Speedsters. Mutants. Those are easy. Magic is debatable, as you and GG proved.

Magic overall seems to have a greater importance in DC, though. They're like tons of books right now that feature mystics and mages.

Originally posted by riv6672
All kidding aside, not really, no. Magic is a tough call.

Is a though call in the sense DC rapes Marvel in the *ss on it?

Such a passionate post. Also a bit sexually deviant.

Originally posted by Bentley
Is a though call in the sense DC rapes Marvel in the *ss on it?

I always had the impression that the Magic in Marvel had often some kind of scientific touch, while the science in DC was also often kind of mystic.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Magic overall seems to have a greater importance in DC, though. They're like tons of books right now that feature mystics and mages.

And I'd say that's a fair argument. My only contention has been that I think Marvel has more beings of a "magical" nature. I still think so.



To clarify the last posts, when I clearly say "most"...and you respond as though I said "all", even though what I said is barely a scroll away, I take it as you putting words in my mouth and responding to those instead. It's not something I hold against your or anything so dramatic, I simply have nothing to say to that.

When you ask me how I've come to my conclusion...when our entire back-and-forth has been a discussion on how we came to our respective conclusions...I take it as a doorway to a circular argument. I stay clear of that.

I'm fine with being proven wrong, just do it proper...don't stick words in my mouth and don't dismiss everything I've said just to ask me to say more.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
And I'd say that's a fair argument. My only contention has been that I think Marvel has more beings of a "magical" nature. I still think so.



To clarify the last posts, when I clearly say "most"...and you respond as though I said "all", even though what I said is barely a scroll away, I take it as you putting words in my mouth and responding to those instead. It's not something I hold against your or anything so dramatic, I simply have nothing to say to that.

When you ask me how I've come to my conclusion...when our entire back-and-forth has been a discussion on how we came to our respective conclusions...I take it as a doorway to a circular argument. I stay clear of that.

I'm fine with being proven wrong, just do it proper...don't stick words in my mouth and don't dismiss everything I've said just to ask me to say more.

That's a tough call, because beings like the New Gods have been called magical. Same with Imps, Angels, and DC's Elementals. So, it's tough counting everybody.

Originally posted by Golgo13
That's a tough call, because beings like the New Gods have been called magical. Same with Imps, Angels, and DC's Elementals. So, it's tough counting everybody.

I agree, and I would concede that DC has more concrete structure in regards to its magic. In that light, I would give it to DC.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
And I'd say that's a fair argument. My only contention has been that I think Marvel has more beings of a "magical" nature. I still think so.



To clarify the last posts, when I clearly say "most"...and you respond as though I said "all", even though what I said is barely a scroll away, I take it as you putting words in my mouth and responding to those instead. It's not something I hold against your or anything so dramatic, I simply have nothing to say to that.

When you ask me how I've come to my conclusion...when our entire back-and-forth has been a discussion on how we came to our respective conclusions...I take it as a doorway to a circular argument. I stay clear of that.

I'm fine with being proven wrong, just do it proper...don't stick words in my mouth and don't dismiss everything I've said just to ask me to say more.

You make some great points about how discussions tend to break down here.
I especially agree with your last sentence. As a debate tactic its over used.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
I agree, and I would concede that DC has more concrete structure in regards to its magic. In that light, I would give it to DC.

Yeah, the whole 9th age of magic and whatnot. Their big story lines like DOV and the Rot. I think it's just a bigger focus. Not saying Marvel doesn't have a ton of mystics, but it seems more important. I know crossovers don't count, but in JLA/Avengers someone mentioned that magic seemed more powerful in the DCU.

Originally posted by riv6672
You make some great points about how discussions tend to break down here.
I especially agree with your last sentence. As a debate tactic its over used.

I wish I could attribute my unwillingness to respond to it to something other than accumulated laziness .

Originally posted by Golgo13
Yeah, the whole 9th age of magic and whatnot. Their big story lines like DOV and the Rot. I think it's just a bigger focus. Not saying Marvel doesn't have a ton of mystics, but it seems more important. I know crossovers don't count, but in JLA/Avengers someone mentioned that magic seemed more powerful in the DCU.

Yeah, I think that's fair...outside of Dr. Strange and his storylines, I can see Marvel's magic world as being a bit more scattershot.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
I wish I could attribute my unwillingness to respond to it to something other than accumulated laziness .
Haha!

Back yo magic, i myself was undecided, which is why i put ??? when i listed it.

Originally posted by riv6672
Haha!

Back yo magic, i myself was undecided, which is why i put ??? when i listed it.

I still think Marvel has more sheer volume of mystical beings, but I've now been led to wonder if that's just because of how undefined Marvel's world of magic is. It's just too damn big for me to quantify on either side, so I'll acquiesced to DC's structure.

Thats a good way to look at it.

How about monsters?
Marvel has vampires (and Dracula), zombies and werewolves.
DC's been doing more with Frankenstein...

Originally posted by riv6672

How about monsters?
Marvel has vampires (and Dracula), zombies and werewolves.
DC's been doing more with Frankenstein...

OMG! I was just going to post this!!

Don't forget I Zombie
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/GIZOM_zpscf1ac46e.jpg

Andrew Bennett, I Vampire
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/AB_zpsd0343aa2.jpg

Ceto, Mother of all Monsters in Batwoman
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/CETO_zpsc6a5e83b.jpg

Batwoman is going through her own Vampire craze
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/BW_zpsf3747ae2.jpg

Looker had her own one-shot last year
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/LOOK_zps523bdba6.png

Marvel has Dracula, DC has Cain, the First Vampire
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/CAIN_zpse5bc4730.jpg

And the Creature Commandos
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/CC_zpsc1f109d2.jpg

Also, forgot the spirits/ghosts.

Deadman
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/DM_zpse93f1b0b.jpg

Weeping Woman
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/WW_zpsa66f0d6b.jpg

Note, most of these monsters are "magical" in nature.

I'm not jumping on the magic train with you again.

Monsters are monsters.

Lol. What?

You and GG already discussed magic to death yesterday.

Monsters, the way i mean it are vampires, werewolves, mummies, patchwork men.

I was just reinforcing my opinion. Nothing wrong with that. Never asked you to jump in.

Now, add some of Marvel's monsters. Wendigo, Dracula, etc...

Originally posted by Golgo13
I was just reinforcing my opinion. Nothing wrong with that. Never asked you to jump in.
Let me respond to that in a manner you will understand:

Why wouldnt i?

Because more evidence is good.

Why is it good?

Come on, man.

Isnt less sometimes more?

In some cases, yes. But I want opinions that are backed up. Battle boards always gets bloated with info. It's a necessary evil.

Originally posted by Golgo13
In some cases, yes.

Which cases?

But I want opinions that are backed up.

Backed up in what way?

Battle boards always gets bloated with info.

Then why arent you at a battle board?

It's a necessary evil.

As opposed to an optional good?



What do you mean by winking at me?

Glad we agree.

How glad are you?

Why are you glad?

What definition of agreement are you going by?

100 % GLAD!

Originally posted by riv6672
WWII heroes-DC Steve Rogers is THE wwII hero

Punched Hitler in the face on the cover. Like that alone should get his face carved into mount Rushmore

Originally posted by Golgo13
100 % GLAD!
Arent you glad you used Dial?


Originally posted by psycho gundam
Steve Rogers is THE wwII hero

Punched Hitler in the face on the cover. Like that alone should get his face carved into mount Rushmore
Ha, never said he wasnt.

DC just has more characters from that era that are still around as well as legacy characters, and direct descendants throughout.
The JSA itself is THE super team that even the JLA considers the best.
As was said, and i agree with, a tapestry.

DC doesn't have their legacy characters anymore. They vanished.

Originally posted by Golgo13
DC doesn't have their legacy characters anymore. They vanished.

Why should i let that change my opinion?

Why should you?

Why should anyone?

Should i ignore everything thats gone before, because the Company has a reboot?

Is this a court of law where jurors can be instructed to disregard things?

And when they ARE told that, dont the jurors still remember what they heard, and thus on some level get influenced by this?

Just pointing that out. Not to change anyones opinion.

Why didnt you clarify that?

Did you assume people would know what you meant?

Originally posted by riv6672
Why didnt you clarify that?

Did you assume people would know what you meant?

Yes.

Fourth wall - definitely Marvel. Deadpool for the win.

Humour - I would also say Marvel. DC seems to be stuck on the grim and gritty thing, in my own opinion of course. That is why I still read Marvel, mostly, and less and less DC. Take Lobo, for example. I used to love Lobo specifically because it didn't take itself too seriously - I mean, the Easter Bunny taking out a hit on Santa Claus!? That was simply brilliant! And then what does DC do? Decide nobody is taking Lobo seriously and freaking change him... Sigh.

Marvel can do grim and gritty as well, like the Punisher in Marvel Knights, etc, but most of the time for fun I will read Marvel, not DC.

What about time travel? Seems like it's more a Marvel thing.

Uhm, don't really want to get into the whole magic/science debate, just want to mention that magic plays a pretty big deal in Marvel as well. Maybe not as well-structured as DC, but Doom is a pretty big deal and he combines science and magic, as far as I know, plus there is Strange and that whole Scarlet Witch thing... And then, in DC, there is Star Labs and Supes and MM and GL all pretty much born from advanced technological societies. Again, just my opinion, but I think science and magic is pretty evenly split in Marvel and DC, just presented differently.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Yes.

Are you answering yes to my first question?

Did you think it was a yes or no question?

Do you know you're wrong if you did?

If you answered yes to my second question, why would you assume that?

Are you giving everyone credit for being able to read between the lines?

Or did you not care about those who might not take your meaning?

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Fourth wall - definitely Marvel. Deadpool for the win.

Humour - I would also say Marvel. DC seems to be stuck on the grim and gritty thing, in my own opinion of course. That is why I still read Marvel, mostly, and less and less DC. Take Lobo, for example. I used to love Lobo specifically because it didn't take itself too seriously - I mean, the Easter Bunny taking out a hit on Santa Claus!? That was simply brilliant! And then what does DC do? Decide nobody is taking Lobo seriously and freaking change him... Sigh.

Marvel can do grim and gritty as well, like the Punisher in Marvel Knights, etc, but most of the time for fun I will read Marvel, not DC.

What about time travel? Seems like it's more a Marvel thing.

Uhm, don't really want to get into the whole magic/science debate, just want to mention that magic plays a pretty big deal in Marvel as well. Maybe not as well-structured as DC, but Doom is a pretty big deal and he combines science and magic, as far as I know, plus there is Strange and that whole Scarlet Witch thing... And then, in DC, there is Star Labs and Supes and MM and GL all pretty much born from advanced technological societies. Again, just my opinion, but I think science and magic is pretty evenly split in Marvel and DC, just presented differently.

This was good reading!
Some nice observations there.

You also made me think, fictional places.
Both Companies make use of them, but i think DC has the monopoly, with countries but especially all the cities.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Fourth wall - definitely Marvel. Deadpool for the win.

Humour - I would also say Marvel. DC seems to be stuck on the grim and gritty thing, in my own opinion of course. That is why I still read Marvel, mostly, and less and less DC. Take Lobo, for example. I used to love Lobo specifically because it didn't take itself too seriously - I mean, the Easter Bunny taking out a hit on Santa Claus!? That was simply brilliant! And then what does DC do? Decide nobody is taking Lobo seriously and freaking change him... Sigh.

Marvel can do grim and gritty as well, like the Punisher in Marvel Knights, etc, but most of the time for fun I will read Marvel, not DC.

What about time travel? Seems like it's more a Marvel thing.

Uhm, don't really want to get into the whole magic/science debate, just want to mention that magic plays a pretty big deal in Marvel as well. Maybe not as well-structured as DC, but Doom is a pretty big deal and he combines science and magic, as far as I know, plus there is Strange and that whole Scarlet Witch thing... And then, in DC, there is Star Labs and Supes and MM and GL all pretty much born from advanced technological societies. Again, just my opinion, but I think science and magic is pretty evenly split in Marvel and DC, just presented differently.

Time Travel can go either way. Don't forget about the Linear Men, Waverider, Chronos, Hourman, Epoch, Per Degaton, Rip Hunter, etc...

Not to mention the Legion of Super-heroes.

Originally posted by riv6672
Are you answering yes to my first question?

Did you think it was a yes or no question?

Do you know you're wrong if you did?

If you answered yes to my second question, why would you assume that?

Are you giving everyone credit for being able to read between the lines?

Or did you not care about those who might not take your meaning?

Nope.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Nope.

Could you be a little clearer as to which question you're answering?

Originally posted by riv6672
Could you be a little clearer as to which question you're answering?

Maybe.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Maybe.

So you arent sure if you can?

How does that work?

Are you confused by the questions?

Unsure as to what question you answered?

Are you really that forgetful?

You said less is better, so...

Originally posted by Golgo13
Time Travel can go either way. Don't forget about the Linear Men, Waverider, Chronos, Hourman, Epoch, Per Degaton, Rip Hunter, etc...

Not to mention the Legion of Super-heroes.

Wow, some of them I've never even heard of. All right then, shall we make it a tie for time travel?

Hmm, okay, here's one: Married couples. I would say Marvel. Some of this may have changed, but there are Reed and Sue, T'Challa and Ororo, Peter and MJ, Luke and Jessica, and now even Wade and that queen of the monsters of his, I forgot her name. In DC all I can think of is Wally and Barry. Oh, and Barda and Mr Miracle. Anybody else?

So I would say Marvel is more into the families.

Originally posted by Golgo13
You said less is better, so...

Why didnt you finish your sentence?

Are you assuming again?

Do you know what assuming makes of you and me?

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Wow, some of them I've never even heard of. All right then, shall we make it a tie for time travel?

Hmm, okay, here's one: Married couples. I would say Marvel. Some of this may have changed, but there are Reed and Sue, T'Challa and Ororo, Peter and MJ, Luke and Jessica, and now even Wade and that queen of the monsters of his, I forgot her name. In DC all I can think of is Wally and Barry. Oh, and Barda and Mr Miracle. Anybody else?

So I would say Marvel is more into the families.

Well, here is my old thread I created for time travelers.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=556939&pagenumber=1

I forgot Gabriel Walker and Time Commander.

In terms of married couples: Ralph and Sue Dibney, Green Arrow and Black Canary, and Big Barda and Mister Miracle.

Wally and Barry are married? :/

Originally posted by riv6672
Why didnt you finish your sentence?

Are you assuming again?

Do you know what assuming makes of you and me?

Nah.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Wow, some of them I've never even heard of. All right then, shall we make it a tie for time travel?

Hmm, okay, here's one: Married couples. I would say Marvel. Some of this may have changed, but there are Reed and Sue, T'Challa and Ororo, Peter and MJ, Luke and Jessica, and now even Wade and that queen of the monsters of his, I forgot her name. In DC all I can think of is Wally and Barry. Oh, and Barda and Mr Miracle. Anybody else?

So I would say Marvel is more into the families.

Also, how are you defining the families? Does the Superman, SHAZAM, Flash, and Batman family count?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Nah.

Why are your answers getting so vague?

Do you know that if you answer, i wont read it till tonight?

Will you miss me?

Of course.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Well, here is my old thread I created for time travelers.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=556939&pagenumber=1

I forgot Gabriel Walker and Time Commander.

In terms of married couples: Ralph and Sue Dibney, Green Arrow and Black Canary, and Big Barda and Mister Miracle.

Wally and Barry are married? :/

Ha ha, lol, sorry, I didn't mean to each other I am still leaning towards Marvel. In Marvel the characters who are married seem a bigger deal, if I can put it that way. They also make a big production of it when they get married. In DC it seems as if most of the big name superstar heroes, whether male or female, are unmarried with no kids.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Ha ha, lol, sorry, I didn't mean to each other I am still leaning towards Marvel. In Marvel the characters who are married seem a bigger deal, if I can put it that way. They also make a big production of it when they get married. In DC it seems as if most of the big name superstar heroes, whether male or female, are unmarried with no kids.

Agreed. Married couples feel more important. Looking at the time travel thread again, I had a hard time coming up with actual time travelers. I think DC takes it, unless you have some examples of time travelers. Strictly time travelers.

Master of the World and Doom wouldn't fall into that.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Also, how are you defining the families? Does the Superman, SHAZAM, Flash, and Batman family count?

No, I am going by the classical definition, married with children or hoping to have children, like Reed and Sue, or Luke and Jessica. Gay or straight doesn't matter, but brothers and sisters don't count. Have to be people who are willing to commit and make it official.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
No, I am going by the classical definition, married with children or hoping to have children, like Reed and Sue, or Luke and Jessica. Gay or straight doesn't matter, but brothers and sisters don't count. Have to be people who are willing to commit and make it official.

Well, some of the Super and Flash family are blood related. Cousins and whatnot.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Agreed. Married couples feel more important. Looking at the time travel thread again, I had a hard time coming up with actual time travelers. I think DC takes it, unless you have some examples of time travelers. Strictly time travelers.

Master of the World and Doom wouldn't fall into that.

I'll be willing to concede that, you seem to know a lot of DC characters I don't.

Although, regarding the time travel thing, I just remembered the whole Kang the conquerer thing. Does DC have a villain like that, who consistently threatens them?

About the cousins and blood relations thing - no, because that's not a choice. Unless something weird happened and Supes is now dating his cousin

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Although, regarding the time travel thing, I just remembered the whole Kang the conquerer thing. Does DC have a villain like that, who consistently threatens them?

About the cousins and blood relations thing - no, because that's not a choice. Unless something weird happened and Supes is now dating his cousin

Hahah, fair enough. As for time travel villains, DC has Per Degaton, Epoch, and the Time Stealers. Degaton and Despero are in the lineups.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/TS_zpsc6181fe9.jpg

This was in Booster Gold. A series that was pretty much about Time Travel.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/BG_zps8396afab.jpg

Ah, okay, like I said, I'm willing to concede the majority of time travel to DC, unless somebody else knows more about Marvel. All I can think of is Kang and Cable, and of course that whole Days of Future Past thing.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Ah, okay, like I said, I'm willing to concede the majority of time travel to DC, unless somebody else knows more about Marvel. All I can think of is Kang and Cable, and of course that whole Days of Future Past thing.

And Immortus.

This is going better than i'd hoped, thanks.

So, anyone have any more examples of MONSTERS?

Also, what about animal/anthropomorphic characters? DC has a bunch.

Cheetah
Gorilla Grodd
Shark
Hawkman (Hawk one)
Congorilla
King Shark
Killer Croc

Marvel?

Howard the Duck
Rocket Raccoon
Squirrel Girl
The Beast
Tiger Shark
Orka
Vermin

Thats just to even up with your list. Man-Bat's another prominent DC example.
Marvel has Man-Wolf.
Marvel has the High Evolutionary's creations. DC Kamandi's whole shtick is living among anthropomorphic characters.
DC has Beast Boy, a shifter, Marvel has shifters Snow Bird and Silver Claw.

It goes on and on.
I'd call it a split.

Totally forgot Cheetah's crew (Lion-Mane, Elephant Man, etc...:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/car_zpsb9916859.jpg

Detective Chimp
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/DC_zpsbff567c7.jpg

Tom Cat (Wildcat's son)
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/TC_zps9d2bfe55.jpg

Gorilla City
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/GC_zpsaf5ca780.png

Zoo Crew and the Mightiest of ALL animals; Captain Carrot!

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/ZC_zpsab5b7bad.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/CC_zps95e4019d.jpg

Some monsters I forgot:

Kyle Abbot (The Werewolf)
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/KA_zps3e74acc3.jpg

Simon Dark (Zombie/Frankenstein mix)
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/SD_zps999b8281.jpg

Forgot about the Three Witches. Just in time for October.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/3W_zps57d081f1.jpg

So let me guess, you're leaning towards DC in regards to anthropomorphic animals?

Streets is Marvel easy. they have the most defined and overall most popular Street Hero comics. Spider Man, Dare Devil, Punisher, Moonknight, Wolverine, Hawkeye, Captain America, and more. now when you look at comic ongoings for DC with Streets, what do you have? Batman, and at times Green Arrow. Thats really it. Even in movies what Street heroes from DC made it to the big screen? Batman..... thats it. Marvel has Dare Devil, Electra, Punisher, Captain America, and Spider Man on the screen.

Streets... Marvel no contest.

Magic can swing both ways IMO. Ghost Riders, Hell Lords, Dr. Strange, The Vishanti, The Elder Gods, Dormmamu, Scarlet Witch, Chuma Gorath, Cyttorak, and more. All these characters play a large role in magic as well the universes of Marvel.

Yeah, agree on both. Magic is a split for me, streets is Marvel.
Trying to think of more subjects...

Water breathers?

I think street is split equally. With Batman you also get Batgirl, Huntress, Black Canary, Nightwing, Robin, Red Hood, etc.

Magic, agreed, can go either way.

Does Marvel have a monopoly on prominent black superheroes? I can think of Luke Cage, T'Challa, Ororo, Blade, Blue Marvel, Falcon, even the new Nick Fury.

Who is there in DC? Steel, Cyborg, Amanda Waller, Static (?)

I would say Marvel has the majority.

Meta is marvel

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Streets is Marvel easy. they have the most defined and overall most popular Street Hero comics. Spider Man, Dare Devil, Punisher, Moonknight, Wolverine, Hawkeye, Captain America, and more. now when you look at comic ongoings for DC with Streets, what do you have? Batman, and at times Green Arrow. Thats really it. Even in movies what Street heroes from DC made it to the big screen? Batman..... thats it. Marvel has Dare Devil, Electra, Punisher, Captain America, and Spider Man on the screen.

Streets... Marvel no contest.

Magic can swing both ways IMO. Ghost Riders, Hell Lords, Dr. Strange, The Vishanti, The Elder Gods, Dormmamu, Scarlet Witch, Chuma Gorath, Cyttorak, and more. All these characters play a large role in magic as well the universes of Marvel.

If you include Spider-Man, maybe, but isn't he more mid tier than anything? Like I said earlier, DC's Bat Family basically balances out MOST of Marvel's streets. Batman, Batgirl, Nightwing (Grayson), Batwoman, Azrael, etc... And that's not including streets from Wildstorm and Milestone, which BOTH universes have been folded into the main DCU.

You also have to define streets, because someone like Constantine or Aunt May are streets. Along with mad scientist type characters.

I also forgot to add that Homo Magi is similar to the mutants Marvel has, which is another reason magic plays a bigger part in the DCU. At least to me.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
I think street is split equally. With Batman you also get Batgirl, Huntress, Black Canary, Nightwing, Robin, Red Hood, etc.

Magic, agreed, can go either way.

Once you count other imprints like Vertigo (Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, Endless, etc...) Which are in the same realm of DCU, It's not that close, IMO.

And currently, DC produces a lot more mystic books than Marvel.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Does Marvel have a monopoly on prominent black superheroes? I can think of Luke Cage, T'Challa, Ororo, Blade, Blue Marvel, Falcon, even the new Nick Fury.

Who is there in DC? Steel, Cyborg, Amanda Waller, Static (?)

I would say Marvel has the majority.

The WHOLE Milestone line (When DC had published it) was all minority characters. Here is a list:

http://www.comicvine.com/milestone/4010-538/characters/

You also forgot characters like Vixen, Black Lightning, Tangent Superman, Val Zod (Earth 2 Superman), John Stewart, Calvin Superman, etc...

And recently the new Wally West is African American.

Although DC has the more popular female heroes (Wonder Woman anyone), Marvel has more of them and they are used far more frequently.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Once you count other imprints like Vertigo (Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, Endless, etc...) Which are in the same realm of DCU, It's not that close, IMO.

And currently, DC produces a lot more mystic books than Marvel.

To counter, I would like to point out that Marvel also has Captain Britain and that whole Merlyn, Morgan La Fey and Excalibur thing, Doctor Druid and Hellstrom, not to mention Loki, Ghost Rider, Mephisto, as well as Nico from Avengers Arena and now Avengers Undercover. Maybe not as many books dealing with magic exclusively, but definitely more than enough well-known characters with magic abilities to balance it out, I would suggest.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
To counter, I would like to point out that Marvel also has Captain Britain and that whole Merlyn, Morgan La Fey and Excalibur thing, Doctor Druid and Hellstrom, not to mention Loki, Ghost Rider, Mephisto, as well as Nico from Avengers Arena and now Avengers Undercover. Maybe not as many books dealing with magic exclusively, but definitely more than enough well-known characters with magic abilities to balance it out, I would suggest.

DC has Demon Knights (Great series, BTW), which had that whole Merlyn thing, along with Morgan Le Fay, Etrigan the Demon, Madame Xanadu (Who also had her own series), Mordru, Lucifer, Neron, etc...

Originally posted by complexbrother
Although DC has the more popular female heroes (Wonder Woman anyone), Marvel has more of them and they are used far more frequently.

Really? What was is the count?

Originally posted by Golgo13
The WHOLE Milestone line (When DC had published it) was all minority characters. Here is a list:

http://www.comicvine.com/milestone/4010-538/characters/

You also forgot characters like Vixen, Black Lightning, Tangent Superman, Val Zod (Earth 2 Superman), John Stewart, Calvin Superman, etc...

And recently the new Wally West is African American.

I see what you mean, but I was referring to 'prominent super heroes' specifically because I consider myself an average to fair comic book fan and reader, and to me it feels that Marvel has more well-known black superheroes. Most of the DC heroes, with the exception of John Stewart, that you listed I've never heard of.

I didn't know that the new Wally West is African American, but then I also only recently found out about Miles Morales, the new black Spider-Man.

Personally, it feels a little wrong to me to suddenly change white characters into black characters. Why not make can effort to create a new character rather, or take one of those characters you mentioned and give him or her some love?

As it is, I have not been convinced yet - I still maintain Marvel dominates in prominent black super heroes.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
I see what you mean, but I was referring to 'prominent super heroes' specifically because I consider myself an average to fair comic book fan and reader, and to me it feels that Marvel has more well-known black superheroes. Most of the DC heroes, with the exception of John Stewart, that you listed I've never heard of.

I didn't know that the new Wally West is African American, but then I also only recently found out about Miles Morales, the new black Spider-Man.

Personally, it feels a little wrong to me to suddenly change white characters into black characters. Why not make can effort to create a new character rather, or take one of those characters you mentioned and give him or her some love?

As it is, I have not been convinced yet - I still maintain Marvel dominates in prominent black super heroes.

You never heard of Black Lightning or Vixen? :/ They are constantly being featured in main stream books and cartoons. Justice League for one.


Oh, I also forgot Cyborg. Duh. He's going to be in the Justice League movie.

Originally posted by Golgo13
You never heard of Black Lightning or Vixen? :/ They are constantly being featured in main stream books and cartoons. Justice League for one.


Oh, I also forgot Cyborg. Duh. He's going to be in the Justice League movie.

Yeah, Cyborg I actually mentioned in my original post - I used to be a huge Titans fan. Black Lightning and Vixen... No, not really, sorry. Is this the New 52 you're talking about? I stopped reading DC a while ago when I got fed up with the constant rebooting. I tried reading the Justice League and Justice League Dark for a while, but just lost interest. I only recently picked up Grayson, and have to admit I enjoyed it, and Grant's Multiversity was freaking awesome, but otherwise I much prefer Marvel these days.

I posted earlier about Marvel having the edge in fun for me, so the comics I pick up these days are Deadpool, Thunderbolts (because it has Deadpool ), Rocket Raccoon, Guardians of the Galaxy (because Rocket and Groot), Avengers Undercover because I thought Avengers Arena was excellent, and as many Avengers related comics as I can, like New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, etc.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Yeah, Cyborg I actually mentioned in my original post - I used to be a huge Titans fan. Black Lightning and Vixen... No, not really, sorry. Is this the New 52 you're talking about? I stopped reading DC a while ago when I got fed up with the constant rebooting. I tried reading the Justice League and Justice League Dark for a while, but just lost interest. I only recently picked up Grayson, and have to admit I enjoyed it, and Grant's Multiversity was freaking awesome, but otherwise I much prefer Marvel these days.

I posted earlier about Marvel having the edge in fun for me, so the comics I pick up these days are Deadpool, Thunderbolts (because it has Deadpool ), Rocket Raccoon, Guardians of the Galaxy (because Rocket and Groot), Avengers Undercover because I thought Avengers Arena was excellent, and as many Avengers related comics as I can, like New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, etc.

Nah, Vixen has been around, Pre-Crisis era. She's been around since 1981. Black Lighting before that. He appeared since 1971. Both have been on the Justice League at one point and has been in DC's cartoons.

I also forgot characters like:

Mr. Terrific
Firestorm (Jason)
Bronze Tiger
Icon
Steel (Shaq, Lol)
etc...

DC has just as many.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
I think street is split equally. With Batman you also get Batgirl, Huntress, Black Canary, Nightwing, Robin, Red Hood, etc.

Magic, agreed, can go either way.

Well same goes if you add in Marvel's non comic characters, but Comics they make. like Stephen King comics (Marvel), Halo comics (Marvel), and then yiou have the Ultimate Marvel comics with all the characters in street level like Ultimate Spider Men, Villains, Ultimate Captain America, ultimate Hawkeye, Ultimate Wolverine, ect....

Way more streets than DC in every way.

This also implies to Magic when you consider the Stephen King novels Marvel makes comics for.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Well same goes if you add in Marvel's non comic characters, but Comics they make. like Stephen King comics (Marvel), Halo comics (Marvel), and then yiou have the Ultimate Marvel comics with all the characters in street level like Ultimate Spider Men, Villains, Ultimate Captain America, ultimate Hawkeye, Ultimate Wolverine, ect....

Way more streets than DC in every way.

We're just including Marvel characters. I included Milestone and WS, because they were folded in the main DCU.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Nah, Vixen has been around, Pre-Crisis era. She's been around since 1981. Black Lighting before that. He appeared since 1971. Both have been on the Justice League at one point and has been in DC's cartoons.

I also forgot characters like:

Mr. Terrific
Firestorm (Jason)
Bronze Tiger
Icon
Steel (Shaq, Lol)
etc...

DC has just as many.

According to this site, called the World of Black Heroes, Marvel has about twice as many black heroes in the top thirty as DC, with a count of 17 for Marvel vs 9 for DC. Milestone has 2.

According to them, 'This list is based on which black superheroes have received the most traffic (The most popular superheroes on the website) since we began back in 2010 right up to May 2013.'

Where the hell is Mr. Terrific and Black Lighting? Mr. T should be on the list, but it's only based off of traffic.

Good list, though.

Originally posted by Golgo13
We're just including Marvel characters. I included Milestone and WS, because they were folded in the main DCU.

Ultimate Marvel, Marvel Zombies, and Supreme Power universes have all interacted and folded for arcs with 616. Whats your point?

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Ultimate Marvel, Marvel Zombies, and Supreme Power universes have all interacted and folded for arcs with 616. Whats your point?

DC has sub imprints, too. Wildstorm, Archie, Milestone, DCnU, etc... Marvel isn't taking the street category easily.

Originally posted by Golgo13
DC has sub imprints, too. Wildstorm, Archie, Milestone, DCnU, etc... Marvel isn't taking the street category easily.

Oh you want to get technical eh? Well Marvel is Disney now, that means Star Wars comics, and all Disney related comics apply as well I guess

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Oh you want to get technical eh? Well Marvel is Disney now, that means Star Wars comics, and all Disney related comics apply as well I guess

We're not counting those that aren't related to Marvel. Halo, Disney, etc.. don't count.

Originally posted by Golgo13
We're not counting those that aren't related to Marvel. Halo, Disney, etc.. don't count. So you aren't couting them all.

Originally posted by riv6672
Each Company has monopolies on certain types of concepts and characters.
List them, add them, rate them, switch them out if you dont agree...

Mutants-Marvel

In name only. Technically a mutant is a altered genetic sequence This is what a meta gene is in DCu which is every non magic/alien character

Alien heroes (on earth)-DC

really. The Superman family, Hawkman family, MMH and Maxima. No others REALLY stay on earth any more than the likes of say Mar-vell (in fact some could even question MMH and Maxima in that regard)

Sidekicks-DC

care factor?? Honestly this is only due to the fact that DC acquired the rights to SO MANY golden age comics companies characters and it was really prevalent then. It's a spin of from more WWII characters.

Teen heroes-Marvel

I can't see either compamy taking a monopoly on this.

Science and scientists-Marvel

also pretty bloody even close to an even split.

Established future-DC

also pretty even IMO
Speedsters-DC

Magic-???
border line call but I'd lean toward DC. with concepts like the conclave, sentinels of magic, Lords of Order and Chaos on top of similar things like hell lords and heaven at marvel. Add in teh hundreds of mystically powered metas and helrald level characters like hawk and Dove, Shazam family, Blue beetle (original) it's sort of a lock. Again mainly because magic was a favorite way of powering characters in the GA

Gods and best defined pantheons-Marvel

not seeing a lot of defference. DC ahs Greek, New gods, Egyptian (as part of Dr fate and Hawkman mythos) as well as Aztec. Pretty even

WWII heroes-DC
this is just a given. they are the merger of two GA companies and acquired 4 more. When you have a team set in WWII with over 70 members plus actual WWII army heroes in your line up - Blackhawks Sgt Rock and "Company" you lock the WWII era up

Street levelers-Marvel

due to the WWII thing NO, at the very least even. of those 70 GA heroes most were street level. They almost all have descendants (and several at that)

Just to start things off...

Telepathy - Marvel By sheer numbers of characters anyway. DC has characters to match the high end ones but I don't think anywhere near as many.

^^ Forgot about the Blackhawks!