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idk if anyone made this thread on this sight but its a subject thats been highly debated and i wanna hear what you guys think


superman vs goku who wins

Joke? This has been made a dozen times here, and the answer is still Superman.

Superman Superspite.

Original thread do not steal

I wanted to hear the db fanatics plead their case for ssj god goku lol

Super Saiyan God Goku <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Super Saiyan 4 Goku<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Superman

Originally posted by juggerman
Super Saiyan God Goku <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Super Saiyan 4 Goku<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Superman

We don't know that, SSGG could have been stronger then SS4 and rightfully so based off the fact he inherits becomes the god of the saijen race. God Saijen>All of Saijens.

Cannon facts.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
We don't know that, SSGG could have been stronger then SS4 and rightfully so based off the fact he inherits becomes the god of the saijen race. God Saijen>All of Saijens.

Cannon facts.

But SSJ4 is non canon. Also all this shit:

Originally posted by Galan007
In GT, Goku stated that base Rildo was "even more powerful than Majin Buu"--yet Goku went on to stalemate Rildo as a base-level Saiyan. Thus we know base-level GT Goku~SSJ3 Z Goku, as that was the power required to contend with Majin Buu in Z. Subsequently, this means base-level GT Goku is at least 400x> base-level Z Goku(remember, in Z a SSJ3 is 400x> base.) And given how easily Goku trounced Frieza and SPCell as a base-level Saiyan, the above seems completely logical.

When GT Goku went SSJ later on in their battle, his power increased "a hundred fold" according to Rildo. This means SSJ GT Goku was roughly 100x> SSJ3 Z Goku.

Even if we assume the SSJ2-SSJ3 multipliers were the same in GT as they were in Z(they were probably much greater, given the above) then it puts SSJ2 GT Goku at 200x> SSJ3 Z Goku, and SSJ3 GT Goku at 800x> SSJ3 Z Goku.

If we then use the commonly accepted SSJ4 multiplier of 10x a SSJ3, it puts SSJ4 Goku at 8,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku, and 3,200,000x> base-level Z Goku. Given all the hype a SSJ4 was given by the Kais+the fact that it was powerful enough to override a wish from the all-powerful Black Star Dragon+plus having Super-Baby as a visible gauge between a SSJ3 and a SSJ4... The 10x multiplier seems logical, imo.

Now we can factor in Omega Shenron. He effortlessly trounced SSJ4 Goku AND SSJ4 Vegeta at the same time, in a ridiculously...laughably...retardedly one-sided shit-stomp.
ie. Omega Shenron>>>>>SSJ4 Goku8,000x>]SSJ3 Z Goku.

We then have SSJ4 Gogeta, who was to Omega Shenron, what Omega Shenron was to SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta individually.
ie. SSJ4 Gogeta>>>>>Omega Shenron>>>>>SSJ4 Goku8,000x>]SSJ3 Z Goku.


I know it sounds insane, but that really was the type of power GT-era characters possessed.

Originally posted by juggerman
But SSJ4 is non canon.

Cannon>non cannon

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Cannon>non cannon

Doesn't work here. Case in point: whos's stronger Saiyan Saga Vegeta or SSJ4 Vegeta? One is canon yet weaker than his non canon counterpart.

Non canon SSJ4 is stronger than canon SSJ God. Fact.

Originally posted by juggerman
Doesn't work here. Case in point: whos's stronger Saiyan Saga Vegeta or SSJ4 Vegeta? One is canon yet weaker than his non canon counterpart.

Non canon SSJ4 is stronger than canon SSJ God. Fact.

No proof or way scale Bills power or SSGM.

They were on another level above Ki, and power levels.

Until then latest cannon showings trump the early 2000 non cannon flicks.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
No proof or way scale Bills power or SSGM.

They were on another level above Ki, and power levels.

Until then latest cannon showings trump the early 2000 non cannon flicks.

Proof is in the pudding. You have no evidence SSG comes close to SSJ4. In GT base child Goku was as powerful as his SSJ3 Z counterpart. Base Goku in BotG was below Frieza.

Goku was on a completely different playing field in GT. In base form his was schooling Cell and Frieza at the same time. Now that's "on another level".

Wrong. You need to prove that SSG is more powerful than the non canon SSJ4. Nothing they did showed it was. Any dialog at all that said it was hundreds of times stronger than SSJ3? Cuz it would need to be since GT SSJ1 was already 100 times more powerful than Z SSJ3.

Originally posted by juggerman
Proof is in the pudding. You have no evidence SSG comes close to SSJ4. In GT base child Goku was as powerful as his SSJ3 Z counterpart. Base Goku in BotG was below Frieza.

Goku was on a completely different playing field in GT. In base form his was schooling Cell and Frieza at the same time. Now that's "on another level".

Wrong. You need to prove that SSG is more powerful than the non canon SSJ4. Nothing they did showed it was. Any dialog at all that said it was hundreds of times stronger than SSJ3? Cuz it would need to be since GT SSJ1 was already 100 times more powerful than Z SSJ3.

You have no proof that SS4 was stronger then Bills.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You have no proof that SS4 was stronger then Bills.

We have an idea of where SSJ4 Goku's PLs were. There is no indication that Bills comes anywhere close. So the burden is on you to prove he was.

I'll even help you out a bit here. We know for a fact that GT base Goku was about equal to Z Goku's SSJ3 form. And we know that when GT Goku went SSJ1 he was a hundred times stronger. So all you have to do at this point is prove Bills was 100 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku and we'll be on the right path.

After that we can add in the other trasformations but lets start out small shall we?

Originally posted by juggerman
So all you have to do at this point is prove Bills was 100 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku and we'll be on the right path.


Thats easy to see based on Goku in SSJ3 vs Bills fight.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Thats easy to see based on Goku in SSJ3 vs Bills fight.

No it isn't since we see in DBZ that you can completely outclass an opponent with less than double their power level.

Case in point: SSJ Gohan was less powerful than Cell but after going SSJ2 he was able to toy with Cell. And SSJ2 only doubles the power of SSJ1. So it's clearly explained in canon that an increase that only doubled his power was enough to completely wipe the floor with Cell. So imagine what a multiplier of 100 would do when a multiplier of 2 can do so much.

Again you've brought no real evidence to this. Prove SSG multiplied his power similarly to his GT counterpart.

He's right about the Cell comparison. And its brought further into perspective when you consider that S3 Goku in BoG is on the level of Base Goku in GT.

Are we not understanding each other Juggs. You said what makes me think Bills is 100X stronger then SSJ3 Goku.

I based that off the fight of SSJ3 Goku vs Bills.

That answer will suffice as a proper response, for competent answer to the question you asked.

Again, the 100x multiplier was a dub only line

Not that it really matters for reasons I've already said in another thread and Base GT Goku is still equal to someone he sensed to be stronger than some form of Majin Boo

Vegeto, who's usually the measuring stick for these BotG and GT threads, stops being a big deal by the time Super Baby Vegeta 1 shows up and becomes overall irrelevant when the Golden Great Ape made its debut

Originally posted by BloodRain
He's right about the Cell comparison. And its brought further into perspective when you consider that S3 Goku in BoG is on the level of Base Goku in GT.

Since when did we swap out cannon for non cannon around here, this place used to always be cannon>non cannon. If its changed, who changed it?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Are we not understanding each other Juggs. You said what makes me think Bills is 100X stronger then SSJ3 Goku.

I based that off the fight of SSJ3 Goku vs Bills.

That answer will suffice as a proper response, for competent answer to the question you asked.

I understand you but you don't seem to understand me.

That does not show Bills being 100 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku. He could have owned Goku like that if he were merely double or triple his strength.

And I also pointed out that SSJ1 Goku in GT was 100 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku in DBZ. That does not even account for the multipliers he recieved by transforming further. Basically SSJ4 Goku can be argued to be more than 800 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku in DBZ. And you've not yet provided any evidence that Bills is even 100 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku. I can break it down further if needed.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Since when did we swap out cannon for non cannon around here, this place used to always be cannon>non cannon. If its changed, who changed it?

We didn't but you clearly don't understand why the non canon SSJ4 is stronger than the canon SSG. It seems like you just want SSG to be stronger solely because it is canon. So iyo is Frieza stronger than Broly because Broly is non canon?

Y'all need to remember that while GT may not be canon to Z, Z is still canon to GT.

That little tid-bit becomes very important in discussions like these.

Not "Y'all". Only one of us seems to not be getting it

Goku wins.

Originally posted by Galan007
Y'all need to remember that while GT may not be canon to Z, Z is still canon to GT.

That little tid-bit becomes very important in discussions like these.

That's true, never thought about it that way.

Originally posted by juggerman
Not "Y'all". Only one of us seems to not be getting it

I merely was trying to relay to you my understanding of what I thought based off what you asked, Galan's on par as usual though, so I defer to his judgement.

Originally posted by juggerman
Not "Y'all". Only one of us seems to not be getting it I didn't want to single anyone out.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
That's true, never thought about it that way.

supermans feats out class goku's

I think Superman may die to a galaxy wide Spirit Bomb but outside of that, Supes.

Originally posted by yungz22
supermans feats out class goku's

Just because Goku actually SAVES the universes he's defending, doesn't mean that his enemies and him can't destroy them. In DBZ, and in fact many manga and comics as well, statements = feats.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
statements = feats.

By that rationale, Supes' durability "feat" against Cold Cast would actually be applicable ("Lol15supernovas", and Goku would have a much harder time reasonably defeating him.

Originally posted by Based
I think Superman may die to a galaxy wide Spirit Bomb but outside of that, Supes.

A spirit bomb would do no damage no matter how much energy Goku draws for it.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Just because Goku actually SAVES the universes he's defending, doesn't mean that his enemies and him can't destroy them. In DBZ, and in fact many manga and comics as well, statements = feats.



What does that have to do with anything

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Just because Goku actually SAVES the universes he's defending, doesn't mean that his enemies and him can't destroy them. In DBZ, and in fact many manga and comics as well, statements = feats.

What statements show they can universe bust?

Oh this again?

It's from the anime where Dende says Buu's scream is going to make a big enough rip in dimensions that other dimensions will come crashing through.

It's then scaled to every other ki blast as it's all about a scream, forgetting that it's a technique specific effect.

And then to every physical attack as Vegito punched through a barrier formed around Buu, based on no durability feats.

It's nonsense.

Originally posted by Galan007
Y'all need to remember that while GT may not be canon to Z, Z is still canon to GT.

That little tid-bit becomes very important in discussions like these. Up to the Buu saga, diverging paths and all that. Material created after the paths split, like BoG, wouldn't be canon to GT.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Oh this again?

It's from the anime where Dende says Buu's scream is going to make a big enough rip in dimensions that other dimensions will come crashing through.

It's then scaled to every other ki blast as it's all about a scream, forgetting that it's a technique specific effect.

And then to every physical attack as Vegito punched through a barrier formed around Buu, based on no durability feats.

It's nonsense. Yep, it was just anime filler. No more canon then SSJ Goku using a 'Super Kaio-ken' against Pikkon.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Up to the Buu saga, diverging paths and all that. Material created after the paths split, like BoG, wouldn't be canon to GT. Given that BoG chronologically took place 5 years before the end of Z, which is when Goku left the WMAT to train Uub, it really just depends on your personal viewpoint, I suppose.

Regardless, the likes of SSJG Goku and Bills obviously weren't considered when GT was first produced--hence why we have to use logical approximations/power-scaling to figure out why they still don't hold a candle next to GT-era power levels.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Oh this again?

It's from the anime where Dende says Buu's scream is going to make a big enough rip in dimensions that other dimensions will come crashing through.

It's then scaled to every other ki blast as it's all about a scream, forgetting that it's a technique specific effect.

And then to every physical attack as Vegito punched through a barrier formed around Buu, based on no durability feats.

It's nonsense.

Oh I see.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Up to the Buu saga, diverging paths and all that. Material created after the paths split, like BoG, wouldn't be canon to GT.

Interesting viewpoint

Didnt superman sneeze away a universe lol

And lift infinity.

And hold a black hole in his hands.

And survive planets colliding on top of him.

There's just so friggin' much!

I thought it was only half of infinity?

parm_k-monster

Wasn't that pre-crisis Supes and wasn't it only a solar system? mmm

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Wasn't that pre-crisis Supes and wasn't it only a solar system? mmm

Wasn't what a solar system?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Wasn't that pre-crisis Supes and wasn't it only a solar system? mmm no it was a "Book of Eternity" that the comic never expressed its weight as infinite.

Or possibly he's referencing the Jla catching a falling spectre who weighs "eternity"...

Either way neither says infinite anywhere.

That said Supes greatly outclasses Goku.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
no it was a "Book of Eternity" that the comic never expressed its weight as infinite.

Or possibly he's referencing the Jla catching a falling spectre who weighs "eternity"...

Either way neither says infinite anywhere.

That said Supes greatly outclasses Goku.

The first one. Wasn't it stated it had infinate pages or something to that effect? Maybe I'm just going off of what others have said tho...

But yes Supes wins

Originally posted by juggerman
The first one. Wasn't it stated it had infinate pages or something to that effect? Maybe I'm just going off of what others have said tho...

But yes Supes wins Its an assumed infinite number of pages but its also magical. Its Heavy but not quantifiable

Originally posted by Astner
The main issue as of late when it comes to cross-fiction versus debates with DC characters is that a lot of people refuse to acknowledge the reboot. All the feats you mentioned occurred prior to Flashpoint and exists only as a memory in Barry Allen's mind.

Ah yes the reboot. Ok so let's focus on the 5 day bench press

Originally posted by juggerman
Ah yes the reboot. Ok so let's focus on the 5 day bench press
That's a good starting point.

Originally posted by yungz22
Didnt superman sneeze away a universe lol

No.

Not anywhere close to anything resembling that. He sneezed so hard it made a solar system move. That is all.

Not to mention that was the third or fourth strongest Superman ever, so...

Originally posted by juggerman
Wasn't what a solar system? What Supes sneezed away.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
What Supes sneezed away.

Yeah, and it demonstrably didn't even have a sun, which made it more of an asteroid belt in the first place, but whatever...

Originally posted by Astner
That was in Limbo where "matter and memory break down," it's by no means representative of his physical strength. Except the "matter and memory" found within the book was never stated to have "broken down" at all(hence why the book, and all its contents, was still perfectly intact.)

That said, the book was stated to contain infinite pages. Infinite pages=infinite weight.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No.

Not anywhere close to anything resembling that. He sneezed so hard it made a solar system move. That is all.

Not to mention that was the third or fourth strongest Superman ever, so... His sneeze destroyed said solar system:
http://i.imgur.com/sUIfSGD.jpg

That was pre-crisis Superman, however.

All feats superman has can be used a evidence in this fight i didnt put any limits on either character when i made the thread

They are separate characters across the era's

Originally posted by Galan007
Except the "matter and memory" found within the book was never stated to have "broken down" at all(hence why the book, and all its contents, was still perfectly intact.)

That said, the book was stated to contain infinite pages. Infinite pages=infinite weight.
http://i.imgur.com/g515PK5.jpg

Anybody got a feat from Goku that compares with the 5 day bench press?

Originally posted by Astner
http://i.imgur.com/g515PK5.jpg Originally posted by Galan007
Except the "matter and memory" found within the book was never stated to have "broken down" at all(hence why the book, and all its contents, was still perfectly intact.)

That said, the book was stated to contain infinite pages. Infinite pages=infinite weight.

Originally posted by Galan007
Except the "matter and memory" found within the book was never stated to have "broken down" at all(hence why the book, and all its contents, was still perfectly intact.)

That said, the book was stated to contain infinite pages. Infinite pages=infinite weight.

His sneeze destroyed said solar system:
http://i.imgur.com/sUIfSGD.jpg

That was pre-crisis Superman, however.

Um, this was just disproved, but I'll repost.

http://i.imgur.com/g515PK5.jpg

This makes sense, you know, considering that a human boy was able to hold the never-ending story, in contrast. lol

Also, you are DRASTICALLY misunderstanding that scan.

http://i.imgur.com/sUIfSGD.jpg

From this scan, you can CLEARLY see it says Superman flew into a distant solar system. You can ALSO see that it says he was "DestroyING" said solar system. He did not destroy the solar system, he only destroyed a small, undefined part of it. This clearly proves that the solar system could withstand the ENTIRETY of his super sneezing fit, which makes a lot of sense, considering that the scan didn't show a star, any planets, etc. That's like me saying Frieza could universe bust, because he was destroying the universe, lol.

Originally posted by yungz22
All feats superman has can be used a evidence in this fight i didnt put any limits on either character when i made the thread

So Composite Superman then?

GG DBZverse

Originally posted by StealthRanger
So Composite Superman then?

GG DBZverse

theres no limits any feat of bith characters can b mentiond

Black hair Goku stomps.

Nope

Yup. Base Goku shits on 99% of Superman incantations, and solo's them all in SSJ3, only getting trouble from the Thought robot.

Speed out the door at full speed and power will crack goku in half.

Maybe kid Goku.

BOTG's Goku shits on all Supe's at the same time.

He lifted a 32 ton boulder as a child with a pl of 50. The difference between that and his current form is as much as a drop of water is to the Milky way.

Yes, all fear the 32 ton boulder.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Yes, all fear the 32 ton boulder.

Lmaoo superman has casually moved planets by strength alone

Originally posted by chasedown
Lmaoo superman has casually moved planets by strength alone

Lmaoo, and Nappa has casually DESTROYED planets by strength alone.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Lmaoo, and Nappa has casually DESTROYED planets by strength alone.



No nappa hasnt destroyed a planet just by physical strength alone

Scans of Nappa planet busting with physical strikes.


Or are we to still fear the boulder?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Scans of Nappa planet busting with physical strikes.


Or are we to still fear the boulder?


he wont find one lol cuz nobody in dbz has physically shown that lol.

superman has casually lifted 200,000,000,000,000,000,000 Tons. thats 200 quintillion tons!!!!

There are plenty of beings that hasn't moved a planet with their hands (by the way, Superman has never destroyed a planet) and they would outright stomp Superman. It's not about that. Goku on average is far more powerful than Superman. The ONLY way this becomes a fight is if we use Superman high end showings and ignore his average. Goku would punch Superman lights out before he realize the fight started.

Technically it is about that, that being raw physical strength, as that's what we've been discussing.

Using an argument like what you all are doing, Goku shouldn't have been able to hurt Frieza since the guy did tank the 20 times Kamehameha and the Kamehameha times 3 had enough power to shed Earth. Do the math. And Goku kicks was damaging to Frieza while in black hair form. Goku stomps

Originally posted by BloodRain
Technically it is about that, that being raw physical strength, as that's what we've been discussing.

And Goku fist would still rock him. You can think that means something in this fight but it doesn't...especially based off the people Superman has lost too.

Okay Carv that great and all, but right now we're just talking about physical strength. I'm just curious to Gogeta's boulder..

Otherwise.. Eh cant see the comparison.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Okay Carv that great and all, but right now we're just talking about physical strength. I'm just curious to Gogeta's boulder..

Otherwise.. Eh cant see the comparison.

I want to debate against you though.

What boulder?

Can do, but you know that this is composite Supes right? OP stated both characters get all feats available, and neither of us would need to discuss a pre/post/Nu Supes with no limits on whats avalible.


That small one when Goku first met Roshi, which is somehow the reason EoS Goku is meant to outclass Superman is raw strength.

What has goku lifted that suggests that he could lift 200 quintillion tons hes obviously not as physically strong as superman

Also carver just because hes never destroyed a planet doesnt mean that he cant same for goku both havent destroyed planets but have shown feats that prove they are capable of doing so.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Can do, but you know that this is composite Supes right? OP stated both characters get all feats available, and neither of us would need to discuss a pre/post/Nu Supes with no limits on whats avalible.


That small one when Goku first met Roshi, which is somehow the reason EoS Goku is meant to outclass Superman is raw strength.

Don't think that's enough to say Goku is stronger than Superman but looking at his strength ft as a kid and knowing that he became significantly more powerful during Z could be proof though. Like his fight against Tao. It's obvious Goku became far more powerful and stronger than Tao. To the point that he could probably blow him up with a finger hit. Do i need to explain how strong Tao is?

Yes, Goku is stronger than Tao. The issue is, as you know, as we don't assume things all we can say when in-verse scaling is that in this situation Goku is Tao's strength+. Later gaining his own via kicking Freeza around, and finally having strength of S3Gotenks+.

No matter what synonyms we use to say how much his physical strength is above, that's the extent. We can't label further than thism.

Unless that scene in BoG was more impressive. Can't remember.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Yes, Goku is stronger than Tao. The issue is, as you know, as we don't assume things all we can say when in-verse scaling is that in this situation Goku is Tao's strength+. Later gaining his own via kicking Freeza around, and finally having strength of S3Gotenks+.

No matter what synonyms we use to say how much his physical strength is above, that's the extent. We can't label further than thism.

Unless that scene in BoG was more impressive. Can't remember.

Don't disagree and I never made the claim that he could annihilate a planet with a punch and Superman doesn't think he has the strength to destroy one either...

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/carver9/Screenshot_2014-05-27-20-58-27_zps2b55bf51.png

What i do know is that Goku is strong enough to hurt him.

Which would directly go against thode scientists stating he can bench the earths weight for 5 days while exerting the same force a person uses walking a few miles. He has the muscle.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Which would directly go against thode scientists stating he can bench the earths weight for 5 days while exerting the same force a person uses walking a few miles. He has the muscle.

Probably since that same Scientist that measured his bench pressing showing also indicated issues later that his punches when he was fighting H'el was >>>> his bench pressing strength and those punches were only mountain busting. Let me know if I need to post scans.

You do

Recently Superman and J'onn moved Brainiac's Mothership, which was so vast that the earth looked like a marble in comparison to it. So even though we can only credit Superman with moving half of the ship, it still qualifies as a >>> planetary feat.

Even more recently, Superman flew through multiple black holes, and was left a bit tired/drained afterward, but otherwise none the worse for wear.

Point: Goku isn't beating someone with Flash-level speed/perceptions/reactions, who is strong enough to push around planetary+++ masses, durable enough to tank black holes, etc. etc.

Originally posted by Galan007
Recently Superman and J'onn moved Brainiac's Mothership, which was so vast that the earth looked like a marble in comparison to it. So even though we can only credit Superman with moving half of the ship, it still qualifies as a >>> planetary feat.

Even more recently, Superman flew through multiple black holes, and was left a bit tired/drained afterward, but otherwise none the worse for wear.

Point: Goku isn't beating someone with Flash-level speed/perceptions/reactions, who is strong enough to push around planetary+++ masses, durable enough to tank black holes, etc. etc.

Small correction to Galan post. He just came from the sun with MM to get an amp and nothing was stated that he lost it before pushing the Brainiac ship.

He was Superdoomed when he traveled inside of the Black hole. Wasnt standard Superman and he has been hurt by less, even at Superdoom levels.

Flash speed?

He appeared to have expended any extra energy he gained from the sun, when he released that MASSIVE blast of HV. That's why he went so close to the sun in the first place--so he could power up that blast.

I don't remember it being stated that the SuperDOOM virus boosted Clark's durability.

Yes, Flash-level speed.

Originally posted by Galan007
He appeared to have expended any extra energy he gained from the sun, when he released that MASSIVE blast of HV. That's why he went so close to the sun in the first place--so he could power up that blast.

I don't remember it being stated that the SuperDOOM virus boosted Clark's durability.

Yes, Flash-level speed.

He shot the blast while still at the sun. How do we know he expended all of his amp with that blast?

There were plenty reference that the Doomsday virus amped Superman. Also, it's unusable since it wasn't Superman completely.

Flash like speed? Where are you getting this from?

Originally posted by carver9
He shot the blast while still at the sun. How do we know he expended all of his amp with that blast?

There were plenty reference that the Doomsday virus amped Superman. Also, it's unusable since it wasn't Superman completely.

Flash like speed? Where are you getting this from? How do we know he didn't?

I asked for evidence that it amped his durability exclusively.

Comics.

Originally posted by carver9
Probably since that same Scientist that measured his bench pressing showing also indicated issues later that his punches when he was fighting H'el was >>>> his bench pressing strength and those punches were only mountain busting. Let me know if I need to post scans. Sure, but I'd better ser the guy basically paraphrasing "your punches are below your lifting strength".


Otherwise it's still undeniable that the physical aspect of the two can't be compared. Town level strikes to effortless planetary strength and all.

Originally posted by Galan007
How do we know he didn't?

I asked for evidence that it amped his durability exclusively.

Comics.

Galan, the ft is questionable. You don't have any evidence that the amp wasn't present since he did amp himself before shooting the blast and he was still at the sun when he did it. The ft is questionable. Also, when has heat vision exerted Superman's power?

It was stated plenty of times. Hell, it was stated that Superman wasn't strong enough to fight Brainiac which is the reason he let Doomsday take control. I'm pretty sure you knew this though. And that wasn't the only time either.

Well, you're wrong.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Sure, but I'd better ser the guy basically paraphrasing "your punches are below your lifting strength".


Otherwise it's still undeniable that the physical aspect of the two can't be compared. Town level strikes to effortless planetary strength and all.

I don't need to post anything saying it's below his lifting ft since A). At one point it states he benched Earth and...B). The second time his strength was measured by the same Scientist, she states "he is exerting more power than before" and when it was measured, it was only mountain busting.

Was this the one where he was punching some guy into it?

Originally posted by carver9
I don't need to post anything saying it's below his lifting ft since A). At one point it states he benched Earth and...B). The second time his strength was measured by the same Scientist, she states "he is exerting more power than before" and when it was measured, it was only mountain busting.

sp holds back all the time maybe he wasnt tryna destroy the earth

Originally posted by yungz22
sp holds back all the time maybe he wasnt tryna destroy the earth

"Throwing punches that could crush mountains. He's NOT HOLDING BACK and his power EXCEEDS that of the last recording".

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/20355739/10-11.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/20355740/12.jpg.html

Compared to mountain busting and his power exceeded that of the last recording. States right there in the scan he wasn't holding back.

Hasn't it been shown several times that Supes unleashes a full on punch at someone and the collateral damage isn't at a planetary level? Like, in all incantations?

Or are we saying we just want to outright ignore the whole feat? (Suddenly its not so black and white, eh)?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Hasn't it been shown several times that Supes unleashes a full on punch at someone and the collateral damage isn't at a planetary level? Like, in all incantations?

Or are we saying we just want to outright ignore the whole feat? (Suddenly its not so black and white, eh)?

Full all out punches=mountain busting per narration. Can't get any clearer than this.

Cool, so we wish to blatantly ignore a stated feat in favour of a feat which doesn't discredit the first feat.. which was for all purposes said from the 'same' person.


Thats some nice logicing there.

I like how we've reverted back to judging the impressiveness of a feat solely by the collateral damage was stated to have caused, lol.

Hulk in a much weaker form in World War Hulk was causing country-level Earthquakes with his footsteps, without meaning to.

Hulk after a huuuge amp in the Dark Dimension that made him absolutely gigantic, didn't even cause any such unintentional damage on Earth, whereas some moments before that he indirectly destroyed the Dark Dimension from the force of his collision with his wife, while they were both at normal size.

This was all under the same writer. Mainstream Earth in comics has too much plot durability to be destroyed in a normal story.

Odin Force Thor and Bor's fight messed up a few city blocks at best too.

Odin himself headbutting Galactus hard enough to flash KO him just barely outside of the Earth's atmosphere caused no damage whatsoever.

Superman wasn't just punching hard enough to destroy a mountain btw. He was punching hard enough for it be felt down to the Earth's core, and even out in space. Batman's teeth were rattling while in the league's station out in space, even Cyborg felt it from the same room as Batman.

That and what Hulk was doing is about the limit of collateral damage you are going to see from a hero on Earth 9/10. Just the way it is. That's not an accurate reflection of the pressure of their punches though (Pressure itself is what matters afterall, not simply the AOE) Afterall, there were human beings much closer to Superman than Batman was, and they weren't even killed when they should have been, if Batman's teeth were rattling from hundreds of thousands of miles away.

The pressure of Superman's punches was enough to hurt H'el. Who was stronger than Superman, who himself was durable enough to withstand the pressure of bench pressing 6 sextillion tons for days straight while weakened without sunlight. That's the main takeaway.

Originally posted by Galan007
Recently Superman and J'onn moved Brainiac's Mothership, which was so vast that the earth looked like a marble in comparison to it. So even though we can only credit Superman with moving half of the ship, it still qualifies as a >>> planetary feat.

Even more recently, Superman flew through multiple black holes, and was left a bit tired/drained afterward, but otherwise none the worse for wear.

Point: Goku isn't beating someone with Flash-level speed/perceptions/reactions, who is strong enough to push around planetary+++ masses, durable enough to tank black holes, etc. etc.

Despite Supes obviously extreme reaction times, I think that a point can be made for Goku regarding combat speed (not flying speed): Master Roshi, at the beginning of DB, used to casually catch 10 machine-gun bullets from point blank range; now, given the DBZ logic of "higher BP means faster", it surely can be imagine that top tiers DBZ fighters are hella fast.
Anyway, for me:

- Combat speed, fighting skills, energy projection go to Goku.
- Strength, durability and flying speed go to Supes.

Also, I think it has to be said that Goku is way physically stronger than most of people give him credit for (albeit he is not on Superman's level, that's for sure).

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Despite Supes obviously extreme reaction times, I think that a point can be made for Goku regarding combat speed (not flying speed): Master Roshi, at the beginning of DB, used to casually catch 10 machine-gun bullets from point blank range; now, given the DBZ logic of "higher BP means faster", it surely can be imagine that top tiers DBZ fighters are hella fast.
Anyway, for me:

- Combat speed, fighting skills, energy projection go to Goku.
- Strength, durability and flying speed go to Supes.

Also, I think it has to be said that Goku is way physically stronger than most of people give him credit for (albeit he is not on Superman's level, that's for sure).

-Combat Speed. Absolutely not. Superman has writer confirmed at least attosecond level reaction times. Meaning at that level, 1 second would feel like tens of billions of years to him. No one in DBZ thinks that fast, I'm sorry.

If you could punch at lightspeed, you could throw roughly 300 million punches using both arms from my last calculation. I'm not even convinced Goku throws punches at that speed, but even if you give him that, that's still far below Superman.

Superman has repaired a wrecked Metropolis, with his own bare hands in a few seconds. Metropolis is a New York City sized city (which has about a million buildings), simply stacking the trillions and trillions of bricks together would be a massively faster than light feat. But his task was far more complicated that even that. He wasn't just stacking bricks, he was welding things back together, sculpting buildings down to their original shapes and details, redoing paint jobs, fixing glass, circuitry etc. Goku has no speed feat coming close to that level.

Superman is fast enough to observe tiny individual particles moving at the speed of light. That's a lot faster than simply being able to react at lightspeed, because you are looking at something that's microscopic moving at that speed. Just like its somewhat harder to react to a fly coming at your face at 5 mph than it is to dodge a punch from an average person coming at you at maybe 15 mph.

Hell, Superman is fast enough to move through time-stops, he's done this a couple of times.

-Energy projection, as far as AOE sure, but Supes' HV has hurt things that would no sell Goku's kamehameha.

-Fighting Skills? Maybe. But Goku knows one form of Kung Fu from his grandfather, which is not a practical Martial Art. Superman knows more styles and has a lot more actual fighting experience. Superman also has experience fighting multiple people around his level of physicality, whereas whenever Goku fights multiple people, they are always much weaker than him.

*300 million punches per second*

Forgot to put in that last part.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
-Combat Speed. Absolutely not. Superman has writer confirmed at least attosecond level reaction times. Meaning at that level, 1 second would feel like tens of billions of years to him. No one in DBZ thinks that fast, I'm sorry.

If you could punch at lightspeed, you could throw roughly 300 million punches using both arms from my last calculation. I'm not even convinced Goku throws punches at that speed, but even if you give him that, that's still far below Superman.

Superman has repaired a wrecked Metropolis, with his own bare hands in a few seconds. Metropolis is a New York City sized city (which has about a million buildings), simply stacking the trillions and trillions of bricks together would be a massively faster than light feat. But his task was far more complicated that even that. He wasn't just stacking bricks, he was welding things back together, sculpting buildings down to their original shapes and details, redoing paint jobs, fixing glass, circuitry etc. Goku has no speed feat coming close to that level.

Superman is fast enough to observe tiny individual particles moving at the speed of light. That's a lot faster than simply being able to react at lightspeed, because you are looking at something that's microscopic moving at that speed. Just like its somewhat harder to react to a fly coming at your face at 5 mph than it is to dodge a punch from an average person coming at you at maybe 15 mph.

Hell, Superman is fast enough to move through time-stops, he's done this a couple of times.

-Energy projection, as far as AOE sure, but Supes' HV has hurt things that would no sell Goku's kamehameha.

-Fighting Skills? Maybe. But Goku knows one form of Kung Fu from his grandfather, which is not a practical Martial Art. Superman knows more styles and has a lot more actual fighting experience. Superman also has experience fighting multiple people around his level of physicality, whereas whenever Goku fights multiple people, they are always much weaker than him.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
*300 million punches per second*

Forgot to put in that last part.

Well, as far as speed goes, I didn't know about those feats, so yes, I have to say that Superman is faster.
Thanks for sharing them.
Anyway, let me say that the main "problem" of DB is the fact that AT didn't bother about giving numerical infos and about maths, contrariwise to what happens in comics, and that's why often DBZ fans must resort to non official calculations.
Anyway, just to share this, going by calculated numbers, it turned out that CG Ssj2 Gohan possess a reaction time in the order of tenths of picoseconds, and during the Boo saga (and later in BoG) the characters become even massively faster than that.
So yes, regardless of Superman specifically, they are enormously fast in short range and fighting speed.

Regarding energy projection, I didn't specifically mean that in pure power terms, but more as a variety of options.

Finally, regarding fighting abilities: I know and agree about Superman possessing lots of styles, but you are limiting Goku too much here.
He trained under Master Roshi, Karin, Kami, King Kai, trained specifically in heaven for 7 years and that's a born fighting genious.
I don't think that Superman can match him here, just watch them fight and you'll understand what I mean.

goku just doesnt have the feats to match supermans

So why'd you make the thread?

i wanted to see Dbz fanboys if the dbz fanboys could make an argument in gokus favor

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Finally, regarding fighting abilities: I know and agree about Superman possessing lots of styles, but you are limiting Goku too much here.
He trained under Master Roshi, Karin, Kami, King Kai, trained specifically in heaven for 7 years and that's a born fighting genious.
I don't think that Superman can match him here, just watch them fight and you'll understand what I mean.
Only under Gohan's training did he gain fighting abilities.

Roshi's was all about gaining strength and speed (lifting, digging and running, evading), as was Karin's test (climbing and catching). I can't remember Kami's besides training to move faster. Kai's was to make him faster with the 10g by catching Bubbles, then it was teaching him the spirit bomb and Kaio-Ken.

Everything was stat training, an energy ball, and a stat amping technique. Goku is a great martial artist, but its basically all self taught. To be fair, the fights in DB are 90% about speed and strength, not fighting ability.

-Power levels are just unreliable as a whole unfortunately, why they were done away with. They only seem to work when looked at through the micro-level in specific situations, e.g: Goku vs Nappa with Kaioken.

Piccolo's power level was 800k after absorbing Nail. And Frieza's was 1 million after his first transformation. Piccolo did excellent against Frieza's first transformation.

Yet Piccolo had a power level was 3500 against Nappa's 4000 and could barely even hurt him at all, despite the disparity percentage wise being less than it was against Frieza. (That wasn't an all out Nappa at that moment, but when you hold back your power level your durability is supposed to take a dip accordingly, like when Vegeta lowered his power level so Krillin could fatally wound him on purpose).

The sub-picosecond calculation would be a great calc for Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan, if a more powerful SSJ Gotenks didn't contradict it though. Gotenks after fusing showed off and had fun flying around for 29+ minutes. Then when he had "less than a minute left" before he unfused, he flew from one place on the Earth to another, where Buu's house was. So from what I remember, if it was say 45 seconds of time left, and assuming best case scenario that he flew the length of the planet's entire diameter (basically from one end of the visible surface of Earth to the other end), it would have been like a quadruple mach level feat.

If Gotenks had sub pico-second level reaction time then mach 1000+ would have felt incredibly, incredibly slow to him. But we know it didn't. Gotenks was very impressed with his new found speed and was showing off to himself.


-Combat skill isn't really a huge sticking point for me when you're discussing people who can fly and stuff. But with Goku training with those people, you have to realize that he only really learned a fighting style from Grandpa Gohan. Roshi's style is the same, as he taught Goku's grandpa too.

All Roshi and the others did was train him in strength and conditioning and learning more ki techniques. He never added to his hand to hand style that we saw. Everyone that can fly pretty much fights the same way in DBZ, they only really differ in their ki techniques. Superman trained with multiple people that fight drastically different.

If we are comparing how they look when they fight, and being pedantic, then I would have to say they both look pretty bad (in-spite of what we are told about Goku's skill), when we look at how they are animated to fight in the anime/cartoons--either way cartoon supes doesn't have comic supes history anyway. Both show bad fundamentals and constantly leave themselves open.

If we compare comic/manga images it becomes a little bit harder to compare skill even more because still pictures and what not.

How I measure skill is pretty simple, since it gets kinda arbitrary in how its measured in comics.

I look at blows landed vs blows taken, and how people of comparable physical ability you can tackle at the same time. It's an efficiency thing. I would say Superman arguably has the edge there, as he has fought multiple people of comparable physical stats to himself and gotten out without really taking any damage. Whereas the most prominent example of Goku fighting mutliple people is against Cell using Tien's multiform technique, in which case each one was like 1/4 as strong as Goku anyway.

Kami's was using energy more efficiently, tightening up movements and technique to use as little energy as possible and still wreck the opponent. I'm not sure how they did that though. A case could be made for this fight but Superman has too many absurd feats in the mixed up vomit spread they call his continuity.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
-Power levels are just unreliable

To quote Vegeta: "POWER LEVELS ARE BULLSHIT!"

Originally posted by yungz22
i wanted to see Dbz fanboys if the dbz fanboys could make an argument in gokus favor

So... Basically, just your rageboner for DBZ? OK.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
So... Basically, just your rageboner for DBZ? OK.


how so?

Originally posted by yungz22
how so?

You basically said it yourself. You don't like that DBZ fans think Goku's "unstoppable". (There's probably more to it, if I had to guess.)

This is the wrong forum, BTW.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
You basically said it yourself. You don't like that DBZ fans think Goku's "unstoppable". (There's probably more to it, if I had to guess.)

This is the wrong forum, BTW.


Whats wrong with wanting to see facts and evidence that supports their claims?

Originally posted by yungz22
Whats wrong with wanting to see facts and evidence that supports their claims?

Nothing. I'm just saying this is likely more personal than that.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
-Power levels are just unreliable as a whole unfortunately, why they were done away with. They only seem to work when looked at through the micro-level in specific situations, e.g: Goku vs Nappa with Kaioken.

Piccolo's power level was 800k after absorbing Nail. And Frieza's was 1 million after his first transformation. Piccolo did excellent against Frieza's first transformation.

Yet Piccolo had a power level was 3500 against Nappa's 4000 and could barely even hurt him at all, despite the disparity percentage wise being less than it was against Frieza. (That wasn't an all out Nappa at that moment, but when you hold back your power level your durability is supposed to take a dip accordingly, like when Vegeta lowered his power level so Krillin could fatally wound him on purpose).

The sub-picosecond calculation would be a great calc for Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan, if a more powerful SSJ Gotenks didn't contradict it though. Gotenks after fusing showed off and had fun flying around for 29+ minutes. Then when he had "less than a minute left" before he unfused, he flew from one place on the Earth to another, where Buu's house was. So from what I remember, if it was say 45 seconds of time left, and assuming best case scenario that he flew the length of the planet's entire diameter (basically from one end of the visible surface of Earth to the other end), it would have been like a quadruple mach level feat.

If Gotenks had sub pico-second level reaction time then mach 1000+ would have felt incredibly, incredibly slow to him. But we know it didn't. Gotenks was very impressed with his new found speed and was showing off to himself.

I disagree.
Power levels are completely fine, unless you use made-up or non canon ones; every power level stated in the manga works flawlessly.
Indeed, regarding Piccolo, I recall nowhere in the manga it has been stated that his BP post merging was 800k; we only know that 1st Form Freeza clocks at 530k and that 2nd form Freeza, in BP units, has a level that "would be over 1,000,000, surely...", directly quoting from the manga itself.
So there are no issues at all.

The calculation about Gohan's speed has nothing to do with flying speed: in fact, as I said before, in DB fighting speed is =/= flying speed and there's no way that DB characters can keep up with Superman regarding the latter.
Example: base Boo saga Gohan says he can cover 1000 km in 20 minutes, so this puts his flying speed at around mach 2.4; yet, Master Roshi reacted and moved his arms so fast he could catch up to 10 machine-gun bullets fired by point blank range, and this is a feat wich puts him above mach 2.4 in reflexes and fighting speed.
It is true that this is not the fastest base Gohan's speed (indeed, DBZ people, when they don't fight, walk around heavily suppressed (see post Boo saga Goku who goes around with a BP of 5000), also otherwise Gohan would be slower that Saiyan saga Goku in flying speed, which is not the case), yet even if Gohan was heavily suppressed, Master Roshi's BP doesn't still come close to the thousand mark.

The same case applies to Gotenks: as every other Z character, he fights way faster than he flies.
(Also, actually, regarding Gotenks' flying speed, he himself said he took a nap: for what we know, it could have been 25 min nap + 4 minutes of flying around the Earth. To push it even more (albeit I don't usually use this as an argument for Gotenks), during Boo saga, thanks to the Yakon's issue, we know that aura is made of pure light, so Gotenks flying multiple times around the Earth was faster than the time the light of his aura from his previous circles took to disappear).

Anyway, besides that, the main point still stands: DBZ characters are very fast regarding fighting speed.

When was it stated that Piccolo's PL after fusing with Nail was only 800k? I ask because after entering his first transformation, Frieza states: "At the very least my fighting strength has gone OVER 1,000,000!":
http://i.imgur.com/3kDyywB.jpg
...Which means that his PL wasn't capped at 1m--it was probably more around 1.2m or so.

Anyway, this is important, because Piccolo(post-Nail fusion) and first form Frieza were equals. Heck, at one point Vegeta noted that Piccolo was even stronger:
http://i.imgur.com/C3pQA7B.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UQv7EjH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/J1sOZ3K.gif

Point: I doubt Piccolo would have done so well if his PL were a few hundred thousand below Frieza's. /shrug

Hadnt goku and vegeta proven power levels to be obsolete time and time again

Originally posted by yungz22
sp holds back all the time maybe he wasnt tryna destroy the earth

No no. If Goku supporters can't use this neither can you.

Originally posted by Galan007
When was it stated that Piccolo's PL after fusing with Nail was only 800k? I ask because after entering his first transformation, Frieza states: "At the very least my fighting strength has gone OVER 1,000,000!":
http://i.imgur.com/3kDyywB.jpg
...Which means that his PL wasn't capped at 1m--it was probably more around 1.2m or so.

Anyway, this is important, because Piccolo(post-Nail fusion) and first form Frieza were equals. Heck, at one point Vegeta noted that Piccolo was even stronger:
http://i.imgur.com/C3pQA7B.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UQv7EjH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/J1sOZ3K.gif

Point: I doubt Piccolo would have done so well if his PL were a few hundred thousand below Frieza's. /shrug

If a character's power level is not stated in the Manga, people shouldn't use the PLs in magazines or official dazzashin?(whatever the feck their called) issues. They never make ANY sense.

The Daizenshuu PL's and multipliers are official/canon and actually do make sense--some thought was definitely put into them. That being said, I don't think a Daizenshuu PL was ever given for 'Nailccolo'(and if it was, I have never seen it.) What I can be sure of, however, is that his PL was undoubtedly > 800k, based on his fight with 1st form Frieza.

who came up with the daizenshu like who wrote it lol.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Well, as far as speed goes, I didn't know about those feats, so yes, I have to say that Superman is faster.
Thanks for sharing them.
Anyway, let me say that the main "problem" of DB is the fact that AT didn't bother about giving numerical infos and about maths, contrariwise to what happens in comics, and that's why often DBZ fans must resort to non official calculations.
Anyway, just to share this, going by calculated numbers, it turned out that CG Ssj2 Gohan possess a reaction time in the order of tenths of picoseconds, and during the Boo saga (and later in BoG) the characters become even massively faster than that.
So yes, regardless of Superman specifically, they are enormously fast in short range and fighting speed.

Regarding energy projection, I didn't specifically mean that in pure power terms, but more as a variety of options.

Finally, regarding fighting abilities: I know and agree about Superman possessing lots of styles, but you are limiting Goku too much here.
He trained under Master Roshi, Karin, Kami, King Kai, trained specifically in heaven for 7 years and that's a born fighting genious.
I don't think that Superman can match him here, just watch them fight and you'll understand what I mean.

Every ft he named is invalid. The Femto is hyperbole and was never achieved.

He built the city under a Blue Sun which amps all of his abilities to unknown levels...even grants him some sort of matter manipulation.

Now he does see particle moving around at light but that isn't combat speed.

Every ft he named has context...every last one of them. As him to show you those combat fts.

http://youtu.be/zexXH3lS8Uw


For reference

Originally posted by chasedown
who came up with the daizenshu like who wrote it lol.

Akira Toriyama.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Since when did we swap out cannon for non cannon around here, this place used to always be cannon>non cannon. If its changed, who changed it? Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Since when did we swap out cannon for non cannon around here, this place used to always be cannon>non cannon. If its changed, who changed it? goku will win here

Superman wins 10/10. Goku even at his best isn't there yet.

Goku stomps.

Originally posted by chasedown
http://youtu.be/zexXH3lS8Uw


For reference

Originally posted by yungz22


15 suns exploding in his face? WTF.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku stomps.

Death battles say you are wrong.

Originally posted by yungz22


Don't know why you posted that since Superman doesn't fight anything like that, wouldn't withstand those attacks the way he did, and the fts mentioned was all wrong...even for Goku. Also this...



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/AngstromZero/superman_vs_goku.jpg


I can post stuff like that as well. To bad mine was published in a book whereas yours was made on youtube.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Death battles say you are wrong.

Wizard, a more reliable source says your wrong.

Stats > a story they wanted to tell.


Hell, even the stats in the vid greatly amped Goku and he still lost.

Originally posted by carver9
Wizard, a more reliable source says your wrong.

I like Goku and Supes equally, however Goku cannot take that kinda punishment, too add, Supes never runs out of power. Goku does..

Originally posted by BloodRain
Stats > a story they wanted to tell.


Hell, even the stats in the vid greatly amped Goku and he still lost.

It really didn't amp goku and the video knew nothing of both.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I like Goku and Supes equally, however Goku cannot take that kinda punishment, too add, Supes never runs out of power. Goku does..

Yes he can take that kind of punishment. Also, Super does run out if juice.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Stats > a story they wanted to tell.


Hell, even the stats in the vid greatly amped Goku and he still lost.

Yeah they did a pretty good job and amped him above what he can really do.

Originally posted by carver9
It really didn't amp goku and the video knew nothing of both. Besides the awful Power Level linear scaling?

Multiplying all of his base feats by 4,000 while using SS4?


Yeah.. anyhow this thread has long been over.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes he can take that kind of punishment. Also, Super does run out if juice.

How? Superman has fought weak, beaten down with knite and still won his battles.

Show me Supes running out of power before Goku.

Goku's power is based off Ki, where is Supermans is based of solar battery and the sun.

Assuming the sun is out, how is this happening before Goku goes down.

To add Deathbattles gives Superman the victory.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Besides the awful Power Level linear scaling?

Multiplying all of his base feats by 4,000 while using SS4?


Yeah.. anyhow this thread has long been over.

Like I said it's more legit in Goku case than Superman. You might want to recheck the fts that was mentioned and then they had him fighting in a fashion he's never done before and tanking everything. That version of Superman would stomp Galactus.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
How? Superman has fought weak, beaten down with knite and still won his battles.

Show me Supes running out of power before Goku.

Goku's power is based off Ki, where is Supermans is based of solar battery and the sun.

Assuming the sun is out, how is this happening before Goku goes down.

To add Deathbattles gives Superman the victory.

You honestly don't know what you're saying. Sad thing is, I know more about Superman than most of his fans.

Originally posted by carver9
Like I said it's more legit in Goku case than Superman. You might want to recheck the fts that was mentioned and then they had him fighting in a fashion he's never done before and tanking everything. That version of Superman would stomp Galactus.

Um, no. They acted like there was no difference from base form to SSJ4, not to mention they didn't use any of Goku's feats that they didn't like. Such as outrunning solar flare in short range, flying across Namek in one 3 millionth's of a second, batting away planet busting+ attacks, tanking blasts from Omega Shenron(a universe buster), etc.

Also, there is no version of Superman that could even contend with Galactus, other than the Thought bot, which isn't actually Superman. They used feats from all over for him, but only manga, non-outlier(judged by them) feats for Goku. Not to mention that while they used power scaling for power levels, they didn't use it for feats, which makes more sense in the first place, considering they don't think SSJ4 Goku is a planet buster, when First form Frieza casually was. That Goku toyed with Super Perfect Cell AND Final form Frieza at the same time in BASE form with a child's body. And he apparently can't blow up a planet.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't know why you posted that since Superman doesn't fight anything like that, wouldn't withstand those attacks the way he did, and the fts mentioned was all wrong...even for Goku. Also this...



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/AngstromZero/superman_vs_goku.jpg


I can post stuff like that as well. To bad mine was published in a book whereas yours was made on youtube.


all of those things are in the comics superman holding up the quintillion tons was in all star superman comics and thoe other feats occured in the comics when superman fought the elites

these feats occured whether younlike it or not

Originally posted by carver9
Like I said it's more legit in Goku case than Superman. You might want to recheck the fts that was mentioned and then they had him fighting in a fashion he's never done before and tanking everything. That version of Superman would stomp Galactus.

The animations in DBs are only for visual fun to represent the points they make. Their answer comes before the action scene.

Well its evened out when the powerpole kryptonited Supes.. all the noncanon helped Goku.

Their methods were fine for someone on their level. For us nerds sunk into calcs, we all still get the same result.

Originally posted by carver9


I can post stuff like that as well. To bad mine was published in a book whereas yours was made on youtube.

You do realize that was basically published fan-fiction, right? Hell, UDON's bread and butter is their fanboy ridden Street Fighter comic rather than something original. Their words don't mean shit since it's clear they are simply going by personal preference rather than being objective. Most DB fanboys also don't read American comics since they can't handle any sort of graphic fiction that doesn't have Goku or Naruto or Ichigo in it.