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The graceful swordsmen Vs the sole surviving master of Vaapad.

Location: Dxun battleground

Lightsabers.

Force Powers.

All-Out.

Request
I'd like to here anyones thoughts on this, but i ask that we give a sort of detailed argument, not necessary at all, just something i think would make this a bit more interesting. Thank you

Team stomps. It's generally accepted that Dooku > Mace if ever so slightly.

I don't think either of them is soloing for a majority, but together, I think they'd prove too much for them. On top of that, I actually think Dooku and Shaak Ti's fighting styles would compliment eachother quite nicely.

Yoda has outright told us that on a nexus, Dooku is a head and shoulders above Mace.

I wouldn't call Dxun a nexus.

JK, ignore me.

EDIT: O.K

Originally posted by Based
It's generally accepted that Dooku > Mace if ever so slightly.

Eh...

Windu gets skull****ed

Fated made a spite thread

Originally posted by Based
Team stomps. It's generally accepted that Dooku > Mace if ever so slightly.

Not sure about that. I don't think Dooku could replicate Mace's performance against Sidious...




Still, two-on-one is a clear winner for the two.

Originally posted by Q99
Not sure about that. I don't think Dooku could replicate Mace's performance against Sidious...


Mace was heavily amped from facing someone on the tier of Sidious thanks to Vapaad. Dooku isn't nearly as into the dark side as Sidious so his amp wouldn't be as substantial. IMO they are roughly equals but other forums have Dooku as the superior. It's debatable though.

If we're talking canon though then Mace >> Dooku since vapaad shouldn't exist.

Dooku and Mace are about 50/50 (perhaps 55/45 for Dooku).
With Shaak Ti, it's 10/10 for a team.

Mace should be supported by either Depa or Sora, then that fight would be much better.

Originally posted by Based
If we're talking canon though then Mace >> Dooku since vapaad shouldn't exist.
Vaapad is in the RotS novel, and novel is canon.

Team.

Originally posted by Based


If we're talking canon though then Mace >> Dooku since vapaad shouldn't exist.

Nah in Official Canon:

1. Yoda > Mace and yet even he failed to defeat Sidious.
2. Maul is able to hold off Mace + Secura.
3. Mace was shown fighting equally with Talzin on a neutral planet whilst Sidious was clearly overpowering her on Talzin's own personal Nexus.


So yeah Vapaad or not in Official Canon Mace defeating Sidious doesn't give him a default victory/superiority over Dooku.

That's a ridiculously biased use of Talzin, and that's coming from me.

Windu and her were equals with a blade.

Sidious was sort of kind of overpowering a Weakened Talzin using the force.

There is literally no comparison....

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Mace was shown fighting equally with Talzin

And then she intelligently flees after realizing he is about to kick her ass.

Originally posted by Selenial
That's a ridiculously biased use of Talzin, and that's coming from me.

Windu and her were equals with a blade.

Sidious was sort of kind of overpowering a Weakened Talzin using the force.

There is literally no comparison....

Not really. Mace also fought weakened Talzin:

Mother sacrificed much of her own form to resurrect me. This is why you've been unable to detect her.
-- Maul, SoD

Then Talzin - who had full control over Dooku's body - got destroyed by Sidious in lightsaber combat (Sidious also noticed, that she had acces to Dooku's body but not to his skill, which probably means, that Sidious considered Dooku as far superior swordmaster to Talzin).

After the fight she left Dooku's body and said:
I am whole! I am returned!

Which may means that she has her physical form again as well as it may means that she has all of her powers.
Even if she's still weakened, she's on the nexus of her powers. I doubt that she's any weaker then she was when she fought Mace (when she was already weakened).

Originally posted by Trocity
And then she intelligently flees after realizing he is about to kick her ass.

Or she flied after she realized that her plan has already failed.

Originally posted by Selenial


Windu and her were equals with a blade.

Sidious was sort of kind of overpowering a Weakened Talzin using the force.

There is literally no comparison....

Yep Windu was equal to a weaker Talzin with a blade. He was smart enough to completely avoid her magical blasts which he wouldn't have been capable of withstanding.

Sidious first stomped (a possibly weakened Talzin) in Sabers. He was then overpowering a fully powered Talzin at the heart of her power.

So you're right. There is literally no comparison.

Originally posted by Trocity
And then she intelligently flees after realizing he is about to kick her ass.

Lol nice attempt at making s*** up. At no point did Talzin flee from facing Mace.

Mace was still game to throw down like the true gangster he is.

All I saw was Talzin dipping. innocent

Mace Windu for the majority.

But, If this is a jedi sparring match, when the time at pre-TPM era, then team wins with ease, becauce Windu & Dooku are already equals at that time, and Windu neeeds to amp himself against darksiders with Vaapad.

Originally posted by Trocity
Mace was still game to throw down like the true gangster he is.

All I saw was Talzin dipping. innocent


She had no interest in leaving until her plans were thwarted.

It's not exactly her life mission to kill every Jedi she encounters, so it's a silly assumption that she ran from Mace. About as silly as thinking she ran from Jar Jar.

Not from Jar-Jar! Because of Jar-Jar

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vaapad is in the RotS novel, and novel is canon.

http://www.starwars7news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/pablo-hidalgo11.png

Where does it say that any novels are canon?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vaapad is in the RotS novel, and novel is canon.

Nope. The only parts canon from the novels are the stuff from the movies.

"movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie."

Originally posted by Trocity
Mace was still game to throw down like the true gangster he is.

All I saw was Talzin dipping. innocent

Originally posted by ares834
Nope. The only parts canon from the novels are the stuff from the movies.

"movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie."
Vaapad doesn't contradict anything on screen, so...

Aligning =/= not contradicting.

Originally posted by Based
Aligning =/= not contradicting.
I'd saying showing the same guy who trashed Yoda not so long after being beaten by someone far weaker is aligning pretty well with it, but maybe that's just me. Things like Anakin seeing the fight are none canon. Mace's thoughts should still be canon.

Or, you know, Sidious faked the loss... And I certainly wouldn't say he "trashed" Yoda.

Originally posted by Based
Aligning =/= not contradicting.



Exactly. Until the stamens is further clarified I see no reason why we should assume that The EU elements from the books are anything more than non-canon.

Sidious faking the loss isn't supported in the movie. But we're supposed to just accept that line of reasoning from the book. But if it comes to a fighting style, we should just trash it because why not?

That line of reasoning makes no sense to me.

No. I get it from the movie where he is trying his damnedest not to laugh. And the fact that he is able to defeat a superior opponent shortly after.

I don't remember him laughing, but I can see your reasoning if he did.

That's like saying Skywalker was messing with Kenobi seen as he defeated a far far superior opponent earlier.

And tbh so far TCW has been pretty faithful to the different Jedi forms. Kenobi is clearly a defensive fighter, Dooku is clearly a fencer, Jar Kai is clearly a separate and distinct combat form.

^Apples and oranges.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I don't remember him laughing, but I can see your reasoning if he did.

He didn't, just seemed to be on the verge of laughter.

He smiles when Anakin's speaks out against what Windu is about to do Iirc. And then again when Anakin chops his hand. That's the closest I remember to the scene hinting that he may want to laugh.