Kill the Surfer!

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Estacado
So title says it all.
Each of these guys get 5 free hits on Silver Surfer.
Who can kill him?

Sentry
WWH
Superman Dcnu
Gladiator
Thor
Juggernaut
Kurse
Black Adam
Despero

Go!

carver9
Current Surfer? None of them can kill him in 5 hit.

One_Angry_Scot
Are we talking about current Sentry here?

"Id"
Hals Krona Blasts him.

Sin I AM
Despero

SamZED
Originally posted by carver9
Current Surfer? None of them can kill him in 5 hit. Current Surfer is upgraded or something?

carver9
This was stated during annihilation...during Surfers rebirth.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9894/newpower.jpg

It depends on how you interpret this statement (new power).

Dreampanther
Originally posted by Estacado
So title says it all.
Each of these guys get 5 free hits on Silver Surfer.
Who can kill him?

Sentry
WWH
Superman Dcnu
Gladiator
Thor
Juggernaut
Kurse
Black Adam
Despero

Go!

Classic Lobo.

janus77
You can't kill an idea. The Surfer is more than mere herald. He is the manifestation of the abstract concept of awesomeness!


They all die of envy!

h1a8
Originally posted by Estacado
So title says it all.
Each of these guys get 5 free hits on Silver Surfer.
Who can kill him?

Sentry
WWH
Superman Dcnu
Gladiator
Thor
Juggernaut
Kurse
Black Adam
Despero

Go! Assuming they are not holding back (consciously or subconsciously) then I see

Superman and Sentry pulling it off.

Supermex
Originally posted by carver9
This was stated during annihilation...during Surfers rebirth.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9894/newpower.jpg

It depends on how you interpret this statement (new power).



I agree

TheLordofMurder
Thor 1 shots Surfer with Soul Suck...

One-Punch
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thor 1 shots Surfer with Soul Suck...
Surfer resisted a soul suck from Mr. Fantastic with the Soul gem...who was also being possessed by the Inbetweener. Surfer states that all his years of resisting Mephisto stealing his soul has made him extremely resistant to any soul tampering.

One-Punch
Originally posted by One-Punch
Surfer resisted a soul suck from Mr. Fantastic with the Soul gem...who was also being possessed by the Inbetweener. Surfer states that all his years of resisting Mephisto stealing his soul has made him extremely resistant to any soul tampering.
http://s23.postimg.org/aanfa39fb/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_19.jpghttp://s23.postimg.org/7j45jhawn/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_20.jpghttp://s23.postimg.org/seqfuq73r/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_21.jpghttp://s23.postimg.org/i77wibkvr/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_22.jpghttp://s23.postimg.org/wexl6yxkn/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_23_END.jpg

Estacado
Originally posted by carver9
Current Surfer? None of them can kill him in 5 hit.
Thanos can...biscuits

Insane Titan
For those who read annihilation, in the book Galactus doesn't give Surfer more power he just removes his remorse etc and makes him less of a pacifist.

SamZED
Awesome. I was afraid someone will beat me to it. So here:

Kill Surfer? Somebody get a Mexican with a sledgehammer. cool

Prof. T.C McAbe
Sentry- can do it
WWH - can do it
Superman Dcnu - can do it
Gladiator - can do it
Thor - with Mjolnir at his most powerful strike it would take him 3
Juggernaut - can't do it
Kurse - can do it
Black Adam - can do it
Despero - can do it

Thor with Mjolnir would to best imo.

LordofBrooklyn
Superman and Sentry pull it off.

The Glinting Bastard is no more.

Find peace....MURDERER!

Golgo13
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Sentry- can do it
WWH - can do it
Superman Dcnu - can do it
Gladiator - can do it
Thor - with Mjolnir at his most powerful strike it would take him 3
Juggernaut - can't do it
Kurse - can do it
Black Adam - can do it
Despero - can do it

Thor with Mjolnir would to best imo.

Board Walker
Everyone on this list can do it

MF DELPH
Originally posted by Insane Titan
For those who read annihilation, in the book Galactus doesn't give Surfer more power he just removes his remorse etc and makes him less of a pacifist.

Not to get in the middle of your exchange with carver, but the way I read it Galactus intended to do both (amp Surfer's power and remove his remorse to make him ready for the battle in Annihilation), but Surfer demanded to keep his compassion and Galactus relented to his wishes:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0019_zpscf69116c.jpg

Galactus states:

"I can give you conviction--and the power to see it through."

"I can undo what was done in anger. I can restore you."

"I can heal you. I can renew your will, grant you new power, take away the remorse."

Surfer says

"No. Give me the will to do what must be done. Let my remorse define me."

To which Galactus says

"So be it"

then clasps Surfer in his hand and energizes him. IMO, from what's stated and depicted in the page, Galactus gave Surfer a power up, and intended to also take away his remorse, but Surfer demanded to keep it, and Galactus allowed the compromise. Later, when Surfer encountered Ravenous for a second time after this event with Galactus he remarked that Surfer had changed, and then Surfer effortlessly destroys a planet in their clash as a show of power and Ravenous asks what has Surfer become. To me, that statement was related to the fact that Surfer was far more powerful than their first encounter and Ravenous was in awe at the increase in Surfer's firepower.

So I actually think carver's right on this one.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Not to get in the middle of your exchange with carver, but the way I read it Galactus intended to do both (amp Surfer's power and remove his remorse to make him ready for the battle in Annihilation), but Surfer demanded to keep his compassion and Galactus relented to his wishes:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0019_zpscf69116c.jpg

Galactus states:

"I can give you conviction--and the power to see it through."

"I can undo what was done in anger. I can restore you."

"I can heal you. I can renew your will, grant you new power, take away the remorse."

Surfer says

"No. Give me the will to do what must be done. Let my remorse define me."

To which Galactus says

"So be it"

then clasps Surfer in his hand and energizes him. IMO, from what's stated and depicted in the page, Galactus gave Surfer a power up, and intended to also take away his remorse, but Surfer demanded to keep it, and Galactus allowed the compromise. Later, when Surfer encountered Ravenous for a second time after this event with Galactus he remarked that Surfer had changed, and then Surfer effortlessly destroys a planet in their clash as a show of power and Ravenous asks what has Surfer become. To me, that statement was related to the fact that Surfer was far more powerful than their first encounter and Ravenous was in awe at the increase in Surfer's firepower.

So I actually think carver's right on this one. seeing has he has displayed zero showings to prove he's more powerful I don't see how you can come that conclusion.

Plus carver is never right so by default it's wrong.

"Id"
Originally posted by Insane Titan
seeing has he has displayed zero showings to prove he's more powerful I don't see how you can come that conclusion.

Plus carver is never right so by default it's wrong. the point of reference would how easily he dispacted Ravenoys.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by "Id"
the point of reference would how easily he dispacted Ravenoys. Him not getting two pieced by Thor. Powering up a planet powered by an abstract heart. Tossing Crunch at TBA. He was snow for a bit that's new.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by "Id"
the point of reference would how easily he dispacted Ravenoys. you mean him simply not holding back anymore.

Xenith pwnd Ravenous easier than Surfer.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Insane Titan
you mean him simply not holding back anymore.

Xenith pwnd Ravenous easier than Surfer. Ravenous was getting powered by his Currs against Surfer.

Then there's the matter of downgraded Dick beating her when full powered Dick got his dick reamed by Surfer

Insane Titan
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Ravenous was getting powered by his Currs against Surfer.

Then there's the matter of downgraded Dick beating her when full powered Dick got his dick reamed by Surfer Nova didn't straight out over power her though , iirc he had to use some mental block on her.

Branlor Swift
To win yes. But he was kicking the shit out of her until he got distracted.

There's also the part where he had the full Nova Force against Surfer and comparably barely anything against her.

celeyhyga17
All signs point to Surfer with extra juice. It could be half a cup or it could be a gallon... Either way he received something...

carver9
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
All signs point to Surfer with extra juice. It could be half a cup or it could be a gallon... Either way he received something...

thumb up

HulkIsHulk
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Plus carver is never right so by default it's wrong.
big grin

HulkIsHulk
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Him not getting two pieced by Thor.
More like near no selling him

Insane Titan
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
All signs point to Surfer with extra juice. It could be half a cup or it could be a gallon... Either way he received something... what points to him having extra juice?

He had no effect on Thanos in the same ways he did in the past.

krisblaze
^Him destroying Ravenous.

Ravenous' later showings aren't exactly indicative of his power-level because he doesn't have the currs/lost his connection to the opposing force.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by krisblaze
^Him destroying Ravenous.

Ravenous' later showings aren't exactly indicative of his power-level because he doesn't have the currs/lost his connection to the opposing force. still not enough IMO, considering the amount of people he has faced since then.

krisblaze
Originally posted by Insane Titan
still not enough IMO, considering the amount of people he has faced since then.

Other writers might not heed the powerup, but it was very clear in the arcs following Annihilation that he was more powerful than before.

Both in the Heralds of Galactus one-shot, and in Nova.

carver9
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
All signs point to Surfer with extra juice. It could be half a cup or it could be a gallon... Either way he received something...

Insane Titan
Originally posted by krisblaze
Other writers might not heed the powerup, but it was very clear in the arcs following Annihilation that he was more powerful than before.

Both in the Heralds of Galactus one-shot, and in Nova. I don't see how, as all he did In them was shown to easily above Nova which we already knew and in Heralds of Galactus all he did was Chanel Chrunch energies.

He just seemed more focused and determined etc.

krisblaze
Originally posted by Insane Titan
I don't see how, as all he did In them was shown to easily above Nova which we already knew and in Heralds of Galactus all he did was Chanel Chrunch energies.

He just seemed more focused and determined etc.
The difference between him and Nova was extreme though.

He also took more hits from Tenebrous/Aegis imo.

Honestly it feels like you're just refusing to acknowledge this, despite overwhelming evidence.

There is a very direct comparison between pre and post-boost. Surfer also specifically states that he wants to retain his remorse.

Do you really believe that the mention of his power-up and the whole Galactus' restoration of him only refers to a slight shift in personality?

Insane Titan
Originally posted by krisblaze
The difference between him and Nova was extreme though.

He also took more hits from Tenebrous/Aegis imo.

Honestly it feels like you're just refusing to acknowledge this, despite overwhelming evidence.

There is a very direct comparison between pre and post-boost. Surfer also specifically states that he wants to retain his remorse.

Do you really believe that the mention of his power-up and the whole Galactus' restoration of him only refers to a slight shift in personality? yeah because everything he did was nothing special in comparison to everything he has ever done.

krisblaze
Originally posted by Insane Titan
yeah because everything he did was nothing special in comparison to everything he has ever done.

There is a direct comparison in Ravenous being a close fight, and Surfer stomping him...

Fifthchild
I think it was pretty clear Surfer was supposed to have gotten a power up in that scene/story.

Of course like 90% of power-ups no other writers gave a shit about it afterwards.

MF DELPH
I think the reason why Surfer's post power up feats aren't "special" compared to his pre-power up feats is because Surfer's always been depicted as capable of doing practically anything via the power cosmic, so it just looks like more of the same, but it's actually not. Surfer has more power. His remorse holds him back from fully utilizing it to it's highest potential, but it's there.

Also, in Annihilation, the point where Surfer got his power-up was prior to the point where Surfer and Galactus were captured and placed in the Galactus Cannon. When Drax and Moondragon break Surfer out of his harness (after Drax had killed Thanos) Moondragon states that Thanos built in a failsafe to the device which was tuned to Thano's power level. Surfer's able to activate the power cell array, which was tuned to Thanos's energy signature, and Thanos was previously significantly more powerful than Surfer. A depleted Surfer, who couldn't stand up, was able to output Thanos's level of power:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps2bd44faa.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zps2fa568f4.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsa49cde35.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zps08822469.jpg

So either Surfer has always been as powerful as Thanos, or Galactus gave him more power.

I know it pains us all to admit this, but everything points to carver actually being right on this one. Every dog has it's day, it seems.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/tha-carVer-3-artworkcopy_zps821976e1.jpg

janus77
The way Surfer stood up to T&A clearly indicates a level of power beyond anything he'd demonstrated before.

I think an unrestrained Surfer is probably deep into Trans maybe even Sky Father territory, but we'll never see it on-panel, unless it's another one of those "the universe depends on you" situations.

carver9
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think the reason why Surfer's post power up feats aren't "special" compared to his pre-power up feats is because Surfer's always been depicted as capable of doing practically anything via the power cosmic, so it just looks like more of the same, but it's actually not. Surfer has more power. His remorse holds him back from fully utilizing it to it's highest potential, but it's there.

Also, in Annihilation, the point where Surfer got his power-up was prior to the point where Surfer and Galactus were captured and placed in the Galactus Cannon. When Drax and Moondragon break Surfer out of his harness (after Drax had killed Thanos) Moondragon states that Thanos built in a failsafe to the device which was tuned to Thano's power level. Surfer's able to activate the power cell array, which was tuned to Thanos's energy signature, and Thanos was previously significantly more powerful than Surfer. A depleted Surfer, who couldn't stand up, was able to output Thanos's level of power:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps2bd44faa.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zps2fa568f4.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsa49cde35.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zps08822469.jpg

So either Surfer has always been as powerful as Thanos, or Galactus gave him more power.

I know it pains us all to admit this, but everything points to carver actually being right on this one. Every dog has it's day, it seems.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/tha-carVer-3-artworkcopy_zps821976e1.jpg

Nice scans. Also, Surfer was damaged when he pulled that off. Wonder why this isn't in his respect thread.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by krisblaze
There is a direct comparison in Ravenous being a close fight, and Surfer stomping him... which simply leads my opinion he just didn't hold back the second time they fought.

He did NOTHING else since to say he had a upgrade.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think the reason why Surfer's post power up feats aren't "special" compared to his pre-power up feats is because Surfer's always been depicted as capable of doing practically anything via the power cosmic, so it just looks like more of the same, but it's actually not. Surfer has more power. His remorse holds him back from fully utilizing it to it's highest potential, but it's there.

Also, in Annihilation, the point where Surfer got his power-up was prior to the point where Surfer and Galactus were captured and placed in the Galactus Cannon. When Drax and Moondragon break Surfer out of his harness (after Drax had killed Thanos) Moondragon states that Thanos built in a failsafe to the device which was tuned to Thano's power level. Surfer's able to activate the power cell array, which was tuned to Thanos's energy signature, and Thanos was previously significantly more powerful than Surfer. A depleted Surfer, who couldn't stand up, was able to output Thanos's level of power:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps2bd44faa.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zps2fa568f4.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsa49cde35.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zps08822469.jpg

So either Surfer has always been as powerful as Thanos, or Galactus gave him more power.

I know it pains us all to admit this, but everything points to carver actually being right on this one. Every dog has it's day, it seems.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/tha-carVer-3-artworkcopy_zps821976e1.jpg this is where you're wrong.

Moondragon says the device is powered to Thanos power signature twice ,ie cosmic power. She says that before Drax kills Thanos and and after Drax kills Thanos when she is panicking she then says power lvl.

If you look at the scans the gauge next to the device is empty. When Thanos places his hand on the pad he starts to fill the gauge up. When Drax kills Thanos you can clearly see the gauge is full, all Surfer does is simply complete the sequence.

MF DELPH
Reread the first scan:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps2bd44faa.jpg

Moondragon states:

"You don't understand! The controls are keyed to Thanos's power level!"

It's right there in the speech bubble on the right.

*edit

I also have a scan of Thanos and Annihilus having a conversation where Thanos flatly tells Annihilus that he himself doesn't possess the power cosmic and uses other sources of power. I'll post after work as I'm on my way out the door now, but no, it's not a case of simply being keyed by the power cosmic.

Fifthchild
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think the reason why Surfer's post power up feats aren't "special" compared to his pre-power up feats is because Surfer's always been depicted as capable of doing practically anything via the power cosmic, so it just looks like more of the same, but it's actually not. Surfer has more power. His remorse holds him back from fully utilizing it to it's highest potential, but it's there.


I think its a bit of a stretch to think that subsequent appearances of Surfer under Fraction, Slott etc take into account any kind of powerup. These kinds of power-ups may be important to people like us that worry about this sort of thing but I doubt anyone at Marvel remembers it.

If one accepts that I dont see much reason to assume it makes any real difference once Giffen was done. Its like Iron Man getting a suit thats more powerful than ever before - everyone else is just going to write him as the Iron Man they know & remember.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Reread the first scan:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps2bd44faa.jpg

Moondragon states:

"You don't understand! The controls are keyed to Thanos's power level!"

It's right there in the speech bubble on the right.

*edit

I also have a scan of Thanos and Annihilus having a conversation where Thanos flatly tells Annihilus that he himself doesn't possess the power cosmic and uses other sources of power. I'll post after work as I'm on my way out the door now, but no, it's not a case of simply being keyed by the power cosmic. that's a scan after Drax kills Thanos , Thanos HIMSELF says he power signature as well as Moondragon before Drax kills him.

Power signature as in cosmic power, not literally the power cosmic, its a know fact Thanos uses COSMIC ENEGRY firing blasts.

Galan007
So is the point that a vastly weakened/damaged Surfer~Thanos? So where would we put a full-power Surfer, then? Peak-Skyfather or low-end Abstract(nothing less than that could possibly hope to match Thanos' energy output while weakened, after all)..?

I mean, of course we wouldn't assume said feat was just an outlier, because Surfer=Odin makes a lot more sense. thumb up

Estacado
Originally posted by Galan007
So is the point that a vastly weakened/damaged Surfer~Thanos? So where would we put a full-power Surfer, then? Peak-Skyfather or low-end Abstract?

I mean, of course we wouldn't assume said feat was just an outlier, because Surfer=Odin makes a lot more sense. thumb up
thumb up
Yup that is just plain retarded.

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
So is the point that a vastly weakened/damaged Surfer~Thanos? So where would we put a full-power Surfer, then? Peak-Skyfather or low-end Abstract(nothing less than that could possibly hope to match Thanos' energy output while near-death, after all)..?

I mean, of course we wouldn't assume said feat was just an outlier, because Surfer=Odin makes a lot more sense. thumb up

Don't think that's what DELPH is saying. He basically said SURFER matched Thanos output, not a depleted Surfer.

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
Don't think that's what DELPH is saying. He basically said SURFER matched Thanos output, not a depleted Surfer. Originally posted by MF DELPH
A depleted Surfer, who couldn't stand up, was able to output Thanos's level of power:

carver9
Ok, I take my statement back. Lol.

Branlor Swift
It's either Thanos' s power signature or Thanos power level. If power level I don't understand why Thanos would have to put maximum effort into it to activate it. It'd be more like just some power imo.

We also know Surfer is nowhere near Thanos full power or not. Especially when Giffen had Thanos dunking on two "unlimited power" people straight up.

Still Surfer got a powerup. And subsequent showings where Surfer is durable and powerful as all shit don't hurt. He got rid of any notion of a glass jaw at the very least. His average now is his better showings back then.

MF DELPH
The point I'm making is in regards to Galactus giving Surfer a power up (scans on previous page), not in regards to Surfer being equal to Thanos. That's the missed context. Insane Titan stated that there was no evidence that Surfer received a power up. I then stated as points of reference Surfer's two encounters with Ravenous (his difficulty prior to Galactus's 'healing', and his ease afterwards), and the other subsequent showing of Surfer being able to output Thanos's power level to activate the device when Moondragon stated the device was keyed to Thanos's power level (in scan above). I'm not saying that Surfer has Thanos's power level, I'm saying that, per that scan, a depleted Surfer, giving it his all, was able to activate a machine keyed to Thanos's power level. It's right there on the printed page, and also alluded to with Moondragon's statement about Thanos being "power incarnate".

Insane Titan
Why are you ignoring the fact Thanos himself says it's Keyes to his power signature?

He created the machine so he knows more than Moodragon.

Simply put he never matched Thanos power therefore it gives no hint of a power up.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Insane Titan
what points to him having extra juice?

He had no effect on Thanos in the same ways he did in the past.
Thanos is Thanos. I also said it could be half a cup worth extra juice. He would need 3-4 gallons against Thanos.

MF DELPH
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Why are you ignoring the fact Thanos himself says it's Keyes to his power signature?

He created the machine so he knows more than Moodragon.

Simply put he never matched Thanos power therefore it gives no hint of a power up.

Using that rationale any character that possessed cosmic power would have been able to unlock the device, which would not make it a failsafe at all. Thanos keyed it specifically so that only he could activate and operate it. I find your position an illogical interpretation of the scans. It's not as simple as anyone possessing cosmic power being able to operate the machine.

*edit

I'm actually at work now so I don't have access to my comics to produce more scans to support my position at the moment, so I'll post some more to substantiate my position on Annihilation when I get home.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Using that rationale any character that possessed cosmic power would have been able to unlock the device, which would not make it a failsafe at all. Thanos keyed it specifically so that only he could activate and operate it. I find your position an illogical interpretation of the scans. It's not as simple as anyone possessing cosmic power being able to operate the machine.

*edit

I'm actually at work now so I don't have access to my comics to produce more scans to support my position at the moment, so I'll post some more to substantiate my position on Annihilation when I get home. so you're going to ingnore what Thanos says himself on panel?

Good job Carver Jnr thumb up

MF DELPH
I'm ignoring your interpretation.

Also, flippancy is wasted on me.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Good job Carver Jnr thumb up
Oh snap!

carver9
Why did you have to quote him? I have him on ignore. He's the only one that doesn't think Surfer got an upgrade. Sad news is, he did. Good posts from everyone.

Branlor Swift
Digi Delph 3 incoming.

For all the marbles.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I'm ignoring your interpretation.

Also, flippancy is wasted on me. my interpretation lol, it's what is shown on panel and stated by the guy who created the machine , his words have more value than Moondragons as she changed from what she originally stated.

Not been flippant, you're ignoring what Thanos said to try and prove your point the same way carver does.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Oh snap! so did Thanos not say on panel the machine is keyed to his power signature?

Am I lying ?

MF DELPH
Re-read my post at the top of this page.

Galan007
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Digi Delph 3 incoming.

For all the marbles. g37HT4-EtzE

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Insane Titan
so did Thanos not say on panel the machine is keyed to his power signature?

Am I lying ?
I'm not even looking into that. I'm simply going by what Big G said and his overall performance since then. His avg post Annihilation is pretty high.

Best example is his record with Thor. An ass whoopin was what he used to get. Now he takes amped hammer shots with a smile.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I'm not even looking into that. I'm simply going by what Big G said and his overall performance since then. His avg post Annihilation is pretty high.

Best example is his record with Thor. An ass whoopin was what he used to get. Now he takes amped hammer shots with a smile. he average has all ways been pretty high unless you include his really poor low showings.

And it's a fallacy he gets has ass kicked everytime he fights Thor, the only time he really kicked his ass was during Blood&Thunder.

If surfer is powered up where was this power against the likes of Beta Ray Bill and Thanos

Insane Titan
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Re-read my post at the top of this page. so you're standing by your stance that Moondragon knows more about the machine Thanos created himself and that a weak Surfer is equal in power to Thanos?

MF DELPH
I'm standing by it being depicted on panel that the machine could only be operated by Thanos by design, Moondragon stating the machine was keyed to Thanos's power level, Drax stating that Surfer would need to give his all as the universe depended on him, and Surfer exerting so much power that it caused Drax to fly back from the exertion. If it was a simple matter of any being that possessed cosmic power being able to operate it it wouldn't have been a failsafe and Thanos wouldn't have been the only person capable of activating it.

I find your interpretation lacking, and illogical.

MF DELPH
Also, re-read my clarification on the previous page. I never stated Surfer was equal to Thanos, and even restated that point.

LordofBrooklyn
Carver started this and is now watching outside of the line of fire.

Carver has evolved!

carver9
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Carver started this and is now watching outside of the line of fire.

Carver has evolved!

smile (rubbing hands together).

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Insane Titan
he average has all ways been pretty high unless you include his really poor low showings.

And it's a fallacy he gets has ass kicked everytime he fights Thor, the only time he really kicked his ass was during Blood&Thunder.

If surfer is powered up where was this power against the likes of Beta Ray Bill and Thanos
Well they've only fought a handful of times. Less really...

Looked to me Surf had the upper hand during Godhunter.

carver9
Lol...Surfer was pounding on Bill during the end and tanked his charged hammer shot. Will post scans soon.

carver9
Lol...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/43640/915780-brbgh_02_005.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/43640/915781-brbgh_02_006.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/43640/915782-brbgh_02_007.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/43640/915783-brbgh_02_009.jpg

Anyone with eyes can tell Surfer has become more powerful.

Branlor Swift
Carver is like Darkseid during Countdown. Just a master manipulator and we're all his chess pieces.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Carver is like Darkseid during Countdown. Just a master manipulator and we're all his chess pieces.
He's like Halo...

"Combat Evolved"

carver9
laughing out loud

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He's like Halo...

"Combat Evolved"

This will make the final confrontation between Carver and Psycho Gundam for control of the Gammites a LOT more interesting!

Prof. T.C McAbe
I would say that Carver is more like Thanos. ^^

Insane Titan
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I'm standing by it being depicted on panel that the machine could only be operated by Thanos by design, Moondragon stating the machine was keyed to Thanos's power level, Drax stating that Surfer would need to give his all as the universe depended on him, and Surfer exerting so much power that it caused Drax to fly back from the exertion. If it was a simple matter of any being that possessed cosmic power being able to operate it it wouldn't have been a failsafe and Thanos wouldn't have been the only person capable of activating it.

I find your interpretation lacking, and illogical. so you're going against what was said by the creator of the machine and how it was powered including Moondragons first statement about Thanos power signature and only using what Moondragon and Drax said after Thanos had been killed.

Not to mention the fact you somehow think it's logical for a weak Surfer to be able to match or be equal to Thanos.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Well they've only fought a handful of times. Less really...

Looked to me Surf had the upper hand during Godhunter. so he hasn't really had his ass kicked all the times like you said.

Surfer did get the upper hand , but in comparison to how Thanos handled Bill Surfer looked poor and Surfer is supposed to be equal to Thanos with this new power.

krisblaze
Originally posted by Insane Titan
so you're going against what was said by the creator of the machine and how it was powered including Moondragons first statement about Thanos power signature and only using what Moondragon and Drax said after Thanos had been killed.

Not to mention the fact you somehow think it's logical for a weak Surfer to be able to match or be equal to Thanos.
Now you're literally ignoring what Delph posted smile

MF DELPH
Originally posted by Insane Titan
so you're going against what was said by the creator of the machine and how it was powered including Moondragons first statement about Thanos power signature and only using what Moondragon and Drax said after Thanos had been killed.

Not to mention the fact you somehow think it's logical for a weak Surfer to be able to match or be equal to Thanos.

I'm going by what was shown on the page, which I posted here, and not the strawman you're attempting to cobble together. The machine was keyed to Thanos's power level. The comic states that Thanos had a failsafe installed in that machine that would only allow him (Thanos) to operate the machine. Your position is that Surfer is able to activate the machine simply because he also possesses "cosmic energy", which is illogical for Thanos to employ as a failsafe measure because he knows full well that there are numerous characters that employ the use of cosmic energy, including Annihilus, who he was working alongside during this arc. The machine was keyed specifically to Thanos's energy input, which Surfer, exerting everything he had left after being in that energy shunt, was able to mimic/match. I interpret that as Thanos designing the machine to not function unless the operator was able to input a level of power that only he was capable of outputting, not Thanos's full power output. It's analogous to 'wattage' or 'amperage'. The machine would only function if the operator was capable of inputting the wattage that Thanos set it at, which was very high as he is very powerful, and Surfer was able to exert that output to operate the machine in an act of desperation. It does not mean that Surfer is capable of outputting Thanos's max power output at all times, he was simply capable of outputting the amount of power necessary to operate a machine that was specifically designed to only be operated by Thanos.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by krisblaze
Now you're literally ignoring what Delph posted smile Delph has not posted the scan of Thanos saying how the machine works

Insane Titan
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I'm going by what was shown on the page, which I posted here, and not the strawman you're attempting to cobble together. The machine was keyed to Thanos's power level. The comic states that Thanos had a failsafe installed in that machine that would only allow him (Thanos) to operate the machine. Your position is that Surfer is able to activate the machine simply because he also possesses "cosmic energy", which is illogical for Thanos to employ as a failsafe measure because he knows full well that there are numerous characters that employ the use of cosmic energy, including Annihilus, who he was working alongside during this arc. The machine was keyed specifically to Thanos's energy input, which Surfer, exerting everything he had left after being in that energy shunt, was able to mimic/match. I interpret that as Thanos designing the machine to not function unless the operator was able to input a level of power that only he was capable of outputting, not Thanos's full power output. It's analogous to 'wattage' or 'amperage'. The machine would only function if the operator was capable of inputting the wattage that Thanos set it at, which was very high as he is very powerful, and Surfer was able to exert that output to operate the machine in an act of desperation. It does not mean that Surfer is capable of outputting Thanos's max power output at all times, he was simply capable of outputting the amount of power necessary to operate a machine that was specifically designed to only be operated by Thanos. if you're going by what was shown in the comic why are you ignoring what Thanos and Moondragon first said?

If Thanos hadn't had keyed it to energy signature Surfer would have been able to work the device it's that simple.

Annihilus wouldn't have been able to work the device as he is mainly a absorber of energy plus he EP doesn't work the same way as Thanos , Surfer etc.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by Insane Titan
if you're going by what was shown in the comic why are you ignoring what Thanos and Moondragon first said?

If Thanos hadn't had keyed it to energy signature Surfer would have been able to work the device it's that simple.

You are also ignoring the fact Thanos filled the energy gauge next the machine using his own energy the release the fail safe.

Annihilus wouldn't have been able to work the device as he is mainly a absorber of energy plus he EP doesn't work the same way as Thanos , Surfer etc.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Insane Titan
so he hasn't really had his ass kicked all the times like you said.

Surfer did get the upper hand , but in comparison to how Thanos handled Bill Surfer looked poor and Surfer is supposed to be equal to Thanos with this new power.
Yes he has.

Uhhh... Where the heck did you get that from?

carver9
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Yes he has.

Uhhh... Where the heck did you get that from?

Making up stuff. No one in here said that.

MF DELPH
This is the last I'm going to say on this topic as it's a red herring in regards to the actual point I was making in the first place. That being that Surfer did in fact receive a power up from Galactus, and I posted the scan to show that on panel event.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
if you're going by what was shown in the comic why are you ignoring what Thanos and Moondragon first said?

If Thanos hadn't had keyed it to energy signature Surfer would have been able to work the device it's that simple.

Annihilus wouldn't have been able to work the device as he is mainly a absorber of energy plus he EP doesn't work the same way as Thanos , Surfer etc.

Here's my first post in this silly exchange over Thanos in Annihilation:

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think the reason why Surfer's post power up feats aren't "special" compared to his pre-power up feats is because Surfer's always been depicted as capable of doing practically anything via the power cosmic, so it just looks like more of the same, but it's actually not. Surfer has more power. His remorse holds him back from fully utilizing it to it's highest potential, but it's there.

Also, in Annihilation, the point where Surfer got his power-up was prior to the point where Surfer and Galactus were captured and placed in the Galactus Cannon. When Drax and Moondragon break Surfer out of his harness (after Drax had killed Thanos) Moondragon states that Thanos built in a failsafe to the device which was tuned to Thano's power level. Surfer's able to activate the power cell array, which was tuned to Thanos's energy signature, and Thanos was previously significantly more powerful than Surfer. A depleted Surfer, who couldn't stand up, was able to output Thanos's level of power:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps2bd44faa.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zps2fa568f4.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsa49cde35.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zps08822469.jpg

So either Surfer has always been as powerful as Thanos, or Galactus gave him more power.

I know it pains us all to admit this, but everything points to carver actually being right on this one. Every dog has it's day, it seems.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/tha-carVer-3-artworkcopy_zps821976e1.jpg

See the underlined portion of my post. I made mention of the term "energy signature" in my initial post. You and I (primarily, you) seem to be quibbling over semantics. You think that power signature is just a matter of Surfer possessing cosmic power. I disagree with that interpretation because it's stated multiple times that only Thanos could operate the machine and that it was specifically tuned to him, so it was not simply a matter of anyone possessing cosmic power being able to operate the machine.


In the comic Moondragon is able to gleen information from Thanos's mind when he commands her to provide him with the thoughts she's taken from Annihilus:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_007_zps57ece02a.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_008_zps15ea8955.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_014_zpsae01f84e.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_015_zps216716b0.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_016_zps601a1513.jpg

She states:

"You implanted a fail-safe. Only you can free Galactus, or was that just to insure I didn't hit your "off switch" while I was in there?"

to which Thanos replies:

"I am Thanos. I plan for every eventuality, however improbable."

which leads to this scene:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_017_zps4137f3d5.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_020_zpsdfe96eed.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_021_zpse3e0df28.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_023_zps311c7c3e.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_024_zpsa2b82978.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_025_zps330275db.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_026_zps790c7133.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_027_zpsa08acc68.jpg


The sequence which contains the term you are harping on. Thanos says:

"The Fail-Safe option that will disable Galactus' bonds is keyed to my power signature."

Now, Thanos and Surfer do not have the same power signature. In this same arc Tenebrous and Aegis even made mention of it. Here they are able to tell that The Fallen One is "of Galactus" by sensing his energy:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0003_zps44fac71f.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0004_zps28c2affe.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0006_zps690e4cd6.jpg

And here they encounter Thanos, who they initially think also serves Galactus as The Fallen One calls him master, but they (Aegis, in particular) are able to sense his connection to Mistress Death and not the Power Cosmic:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0022_zpsffd21b8d.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0023_zps83702a69.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0024_zps05243ece.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0025_zps93d872fb.jpg

Now we all know that Thanos is significantly more powerful than Surfer. In the scans above Thanos was casually powering the machine with one hand and no exertion on his part. When Drax kills Thanos, Moondragon, who had just read Thanos's mind, and was with him when he was explaining how the machine is operated, states this:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps26d563f1.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zpsea00d7ae.jpg

The first two pages of the four in my original post. That sequence leads to Drax breaking Surfer out of the shunt, and Drax imploring a weakened Surfer that it would take everything he's got in order to operate the machine without triggering Thanos's failsafe. In an act of desperation Surfer instantly powers up the device by channeling all of his power with both hands and freeing Galactus:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsdee76873.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zpsda89c77d.jpg

^That sequence is where I'm making the claim of Surfer being able to mimic Thanos's energy output, which the machine was keyed to, and power the machine without triggering the failsafe. And this was after the power up which Galactus provided Surfer. All I was doing was pointing out the correlation between Surfer's power up from Galactus and and his later ability to output Thanos's "power level/power signature" in order to operate the machine specifically designed for only Thanos to be able to operate, as depicted and stated on panel. It's all laid bare for everyone to come to their own conclusions, but simply put, I don't agree with you and your interpretarion that it was simply a matter of possessing cosmic power. If that were the case it wouldn't have required Surfer's exertion of power, just his touch as it was depicted when Thanos was operating the machine. Surfer had to forcibly perform the feat.

I have nothing further to say on this tangent aspect of this conversation. Quip away as you will. I have zero concern.

Bottome line:

Surfer received a power up.

carver was actually right.

Insane Titan
Long wasted post. You simply fail to understand anything.

You even posted the part about Thanos saying his power signature, yet earlier your whole argument was about the machine needing a certain power lvl.

For this so called power up you have Surfer not holding back against Ravenous and this lol.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Yes he has.

Uhhh... Where the heck did you get that from? name them then.


By what people are saying and suggesting

janus77
Originally posted by MF DELPH
This is the last I'm going to say on this topic as it's a red herring in regards to the actual point I was making in the first place. That being that Surfer did in fact receive a power up from Galactus, and I posted the scan to show that on panel event.



Here's my first post in this silly exchange over Thanos in Annihilation:



See the underlined portion of my post. I made mention of the term "energy signature" in my initial post. You and I (primarily, you) seem to be quibbling over semantics. You think that power signature is just a matter of Surfer possessing cosmic power. I disagree with that interpretation because it's stated multiple times that only Thanos could operate the machine and that it was specifically tuned to him, so it was not simply a matter of anyone possessing cosmic power being able to operate the machine.


In the comic Moondragon is able to gleen information from Thanos's mind when he commands her to provide him with the thoughts she's taken from Annihilus:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_007_zps57ece02a.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_008_zps15ea8955.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_014_zpsae01f84e.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_015_zps216716b0.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_016_zps601a1513.jpg

She states:

"You implanted a fail-safe. Only you can free Galactus, or was that just to insure I didn't hit your "off switch" while I was in there?"

to which Thanos replies:

"I am Thanos. I plan for every eventuality, however improbable."

which leads to this scene:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_017_zps4137f3d5.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_020_zpsdfe96eed.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_021_zpse3e0df28.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_023_zps311c7c3e.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_024_zpsa2b82978.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_025_zps330275db.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_026_zps790c7133.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_027_zpsa08acc68.jpg


The sequence which contains the term you are harping on. Thanos says:

"The Fail-Safe option that will disable Galactus' bonds is keyed to my power signature."

Now, Thanos and Surfer do not have the same power signature. In this same arc Tenebrous and Aegis even made mention of it. Here they are able to tell that The Fallen One is "of Galactus" by sensing his energy:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0003_zps44fac71f.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0004_zps28c2affe.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0006_zps690e4cd6.jpg

And here they encounter Thanos, who they initially think also serves Galactus as The Fallen One calls him master, but they (Aegis, in particular) are able to sense his connection to Mistress Death and not the Power Cosmic:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0022_zpsffd21b8d.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0023_zps83702a69.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0024_zps05243ece.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0025_zps93d872fb.jpg

Now we all know that Thanos is significantly more powerful than Surfer. In the scans above Thanos was casually powering the machine with one hand and no exertion on his part. When Drax kills Thanos, Moondragon, who had just read Thanos's mind, and was with him when he was explaining how the machine is operated, states this:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps26d563f1.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zpsea00d7ae.jpg

The first two pages of the four in my original post. That sequence leads to Drax breaking Surfer out of the shunt, and Drax imploring a weakened Surfer that it would take everything he's got in order to operate the machine without triggering Thanos's failsafe. In an act of desperation Surfer instantly powers up the device by channeling all of his power with both hands and freeing Galactus:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsdee76873.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zpsda89c77d.jpg

^That sequence is where I'm making the claim of Surfer being able to mimic Thanos's energy output, which the machine was keyed to, and power the machine without triggering the failsafe. And this was after the power up which Galactus provided Surfer. All I was doing was pointing out the correlation between Surfer's power up from Galactus and and his later ability to output Thanos's "power level/power signature" in order to operate the machine specifically designed for only Thanos to be able to operate, as depicted and stated on panel. It's all laid bare for everyone to come to their own conclusions, but simply put, I don't agree with you and your interpretarion that it was simply a matter of possessing cosmic power. If that were the case it wouldn't have required Surfer's exertion of power, just his touch as it was depicted when Thanos was operating the machine. Surfer had to forcibly perform the feat.

I have nothing further to say on this tangent aspect of this conversation. Quip away as you will. I have zero concern.

Bottome line:

Surfer received a power up.

carver was actually right.
*sigh*
Tenebrous and Aegis started out awesomely.
They really should have been more powerful and kept aside for further Galactus stories.

Loved the way Tenebrous casually palmed Fallen One, like a farmer with a baby chicken.

Bentley
They did came back to die again thumb up

krisblaze
^Yeah that shit was ridiculous...

carver9
Originally posted by MF DELPH
This is the last I'm going to say on this topic as it's a red herring in regards to the actual point I was making in the first place. That being that Surfer did in fact receive a power up from Galactus, and I posted the scan to show that on panel event.



Here's my first post in this silly exchange over Thanos in Annihilation:



See the underlined portion of my post. I made mention of the term "energy signature" in my initial post. You and I (primarily, you) seem to be quibbling over semantics. You think that power signature is just a matter of Surfer possessing cosmic power. I disagree with that interpretation because it's stated multiple times that only Thanos could operate the machine and that it was specifically tuned to him, so it was not simply a matter of anyone possessing cosmic power being able to operate the machine.


In the comic Moondragon is able to gleen information from Thanos's mind when he commands her to provide him with the thoughts she's taken from Annihilus:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_007_zps57ece02a.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_008_zps15ea8955.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_014_zpsae01f84e.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_015_zps216716b0.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_016_zps601a1513.jpg

She states:

"You implanted a fail-safe. Only you can free Galactus, or was that just to insure I didn't hit your "off switch" while I was in there?"

to which Thanos replies:

"I am Thanos. I plan for every eventuality, however improbable."

which leads to this scene:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_017_zps4137f3d5.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_020_zpsdfe96eed.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_021_zpse3e0df28.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_023_zps311c7c3e.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_024_zpsa2b82978.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_025_zps330275db.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_026_zps790c7133.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_027_zpsa08acc68.jpg


The sequence which contains the term you are harping on. Thanos says:

"The Fail-Safe option that will disable Galactus' bonds is keyed to my power signature."

Now, Thanos and Surfer do not have the same power signature. In this same arc Tenebrous and Aegis even made mention of it. Here they are able to tell that The Fallen One is "of Galactus" by sensing his energy:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0003_zps44fac71f.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0004_zps28c2affe.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0006_zps690e4cd6.jpg

And here they encounter Thanos, who they initially think also serves Galactus as The Fallen One calls him master, but they (Aegis, in particular) are able to sense his connection to Mistress Death and not the Power Cosmic:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0022_zpsffd21b8d.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0023_zps83702a69.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0024_zps05243ece.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0025_zps93d872fb.jpg

Now we all know that Thanos is significantly more powerful than Surfer. In the scans above Thanos was casually powering the machine with one hand and no exertion on his part. When Drax kills Thanos, Moondragon, who had just read Thanos's mind, and was with him when he was explaining how the machine is operated, states this:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps26d563f1.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zpsea00d7ae.jpg

The first two pages of the four in my original post. That sequence leads to Drax breaking Surfer out of the shunt, and Drax imploring a weakened Surfer that it would take everything he's got in order to operate the machine without triggering Thanos's failsafe. In an act of desperation Surfer instantly powers up the device by channeling all of his power with both hands and freeing Galactus:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsdee76873.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zpsda89c77d.jpg

^That sequence is where I'm making the claim of Surfer being able to mimic Thanos's energy output, which the machine was keyed to, and power the machine without triggering the failsafe. And this was after the power up which Galactus provided Surfer. All I was doing was pointing out the correlation between Surfer's power up from Galactus and and his later ability to output Thanos's "power level/power signature" in order to operate the machine specifically designed for only Thanos to be able to operate, as depicted and stated on panel. It's all laid bare for everyone to come to their own conclusions, but simply put, I don't agree with you and your interpretarion that it was simply a matter of possessing cosmic power. If that were the case it wouldn't have required Surfer's exertion of power, just his touch as it was depicted when Thanos was operating the machine. Surfer had to forcibly perform the feat.

I have nothing further to say on this tangent aspect of this conversation. Quip away as you will. I have zero concern.

Bottome line:

Surfer received a power up.

carver was actually right.

Good post

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by MF DELPH

carver was actually right.

This is the main point we should all be taking home with us.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is the main point we should all be taking home with us.

Lol...I'm always right

DarkSaint85
Now now. Like Gollum, squirrel away that precious little nugget of goodwill. Don't waste it now.

abhilegend
Originally posted by abhilegend
On panel proof trumps a bio carter. Here is another bio from the same comic that says he wasn't upgraded but restored.
http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/20307371_noupgrade3mb3.jpg




Surfer on panel says he doesn't need the power and Galactus says about restoring him.

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/20307370_noupgrade2jr6.jpg


You know what was restored? Surfer's space-time powers since that was the only thing Galactus deprived surfer from, he didn't actually depower him.

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15764043_30.jpg

He wasn't upgraded at all.

Surfer wasn't powered up IMO. What he did to Ravenous was akin to what he did to Morg. At first Morg beat the shit out of Surfer, then Surfer stopped holding back and KTFOed him. IMO anyway.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer wasn't powered up IMO. What he did to Ravenous was akin to what he did to Morg. At first Morg beat the shit out of Surfer, then Surfer stopped holding back and KTFOed him. IMO anyway. thumb up

abhilegend
At last we agree on something.

mmm

Insane Titan
Originally posted by abhilegend
At last we agree on something.

mmm laughing out loud solar eclipse?

What do you make of Surfer powering Thanos machine.

abhilegend
It was a filler scene with little to no importance since it is more akin to a guy mimicking a power signature than power level. Giffen isn't one to play around with power levels and he rarely leaves them ambiguous.

abhilegend
And one can play the showing card in the opposite direction too.


Karnilla vs Classic Surfer. He no sells her completely.

http://i.imgur.com/jOra4ae.jpg

Karnilla vs current Surfer. Gets oneshotted by Karnilla like a bug.

http://i.imgur.com/cFpzi2G.jpg

mmm

DarkSaint85
Karnilla also got a powerup, problem?

abhilegend
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Karnilla also got a powerup, problem?
And where did she got a power up?

DarkSaint85
Since the 1960s/70s!

The proof is in your own scans sneer

abhilegend
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Since the 1960s/70s!

The proof is in your own scans sneer
Arguing in carver style, eh?

carver9
@ABHI...

Just want to add something to your post. G didn't restore Surfer's space/time powers in Annihilation, he got those back in Silver Surfer vol 3 right after he saved Nova for Galactus.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by abhilegend
Arguing in carver style, eh?

Sometimes, even the king likes to dress up as a beggar and wander the streets as a commoner.

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
@ABHI...

Just want to add something to your post. G didn't restore Surfer's space/time powers in Annihilation, he got those back in Silver Surfer vol 3 right after he saved Nova for Galactus.
That's Galactus freeing surfer from the barrier. And the barrier didn't stop Surfer, it was revealed that it just stopped his board.

So nice try. But no cigar.Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sometimes, even the king likes to dress up as a beggar and wander the streets as a commoner.
So carv is king I assume.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by abhilegend
It was a filler scene with little to no importance since it is more akin to a guy mimicking a power signature than power level. Giffen isn't one to play around with power levels and he rarely leaves them ambiguous. pretty much as I thought.

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's Galactus freeing surfer from the barrier. And the barrier didn't stop Surfer, it was revealed that it just stopped his board.

So nice try. But no cigar.
So carv is king I assume.


The barrier was tied to his space time powers. That's why Surfer couldn't bypass the barrier via hyperspace while he was trapped/depowered and why he demonstrated space/time powers(such as hyperspace travel and manipulation of spatial and temporal energy) before his upgrade in Annihilation. Of course the exact nature of the barrier and Surfer's relationship to it was often handled inconsistently(just as pretty much everything in that era was) so it is all a little muddled.

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
The barrier was tied to his space time powers. That's why Surfer couldn't bypass the barrier via hyperspace while he was trapped/depowered and why he demonstrated space/time powers(such as hyperspace travel and manipulation of spatial and temporal energy) before his upgrade in Annihilation. Of course the exact nature of the barrier and Surfer's relationship to it was often handled inconsistently(just as pretty much everything in that era was) so it is all a little muddled.
Have you even read the issue? Because anybody who has read it knows how the barrier worked. And how Surfer escaped it. The barrier was tuned to surfer's board, so surfer manually escaped the barrier in Fantastic Four's ship, turned his board into energy saying specifically that it only stopped his board.


That's why surfer couldn't escape the barrier while he was on his board. Go read the actual comic for once.

erm

Rage.Of.Olympus
After reading the scans, I'd say Surfer got a power up in that he became a herald again (Or at least released his "mental blocks"wink. It's had a positive impact on his average performance, at least around the Annihilation era. Not sure why this is such a big deal though. It matters so little in the long run that it's not like his previous fights become inadmissible (Which is why I think some people are against it, harder to lowball if people say it doesn't count).

The Thanos power signature scene was clearly also another example of power. The entire context, including Surfer's struggle points to this. It in no way means Surfer is the equal of Thanos in power however. So you can breath easy insane titan. It's not what Delph is suggesting either.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Karnilla also got a powerup, problem?

Not that I know of but the scans posted contribute nothing to the discussion regarding Surfer's power up one way or another.

abhilegend
laughing out loud

Insane Titan
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
After reading the scans, I'd say Surfer got a power up in that he became a herald again (Or at least released his "mental blocks"wink. It's had a positive impact on his average performance, at least around the Annihilation era. Not sure why this is such a big deal though. It matters so little in the long run that it's not like his previous fights become inadmissible (Which is why I think some people are against it, harder to lowball if people say it doesn't count).

The Thanos power signature scene was clearly also another example of power. The entire context, including Surfer's struggle points to this. It in no way means Surfer is the equal of Thanos in power however. So you can breath easy insane titan. It's not what Delph is suggesting either.



Not that I know of but the scans posted contribute nothing to the discussion regarding Surfer's power up one way or another. lol you think I was bothered about that? I know Surfer is nothing to Thanos due todimw comparison against opponents.

Delph was trying to suggest Surfer was as powerful as Thanos to further his case that Surfer got this mythical power up using proof of him not holding back against Ravenous and matching a power signature after Thanos had do e all the work filling the power gauge.

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
Have you even read the issue? Because anybody who has read it knows how the barrier worked. And how Surfer escaped it. The barrier was tuned to surfer's board, so surfer manually escaped the barrier in Fantastic Four's ship, turned his board into energy saying specifically that it only stopped his board.


That's why surfer couldn't escape the barrier while he was on his board. Go read the actual comic for once.

erm


None of that contradicts anything I said. I know he escaped by turning his board to energy and then transmuting the board on the other side. That doesn't change the fact that he demonstrated space/time powers after he escaped but before Annihilation which means that he got them back when the barrier was taken down, not when he was upgraded in Annihilation. Galactus offered new power and to remove Surfer's remorse, Surfer said "no" to the removal of remorse but in no way said he didn't want the power increase.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Insane Titan
so you're going against what was said by the creator of the machine and how it was powered including Moondragons first statement about Thanos power signature and only using what Moondragon and Drax said after Thanos had been killed.

Not to mention the fact you somehow think it's logical for a weak Surfer to be able to match or be equal to Thanos. He didn't say that at all. Ypu cannot comprehend what he did say which is very telling. This is why proof never works on you because just like as in the English language. You just don't get it.

krisblaze
I guess the point of the powerup has become moot now, as even if he did get a powerup it has been ignored by every writer since Annihilation smile

carver9
Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't say that at all. Ypu cannot comprehend what he did say which is very telling. This is why proof never works on you because just like as in the English language. You just don't get it.

laughing out loud laughing out loud

Insane Titan
Aww look at Quan commenting on me , you would of thought she would get over the butthurt . I guess I'm just too important to her life.

janus77
Insane titan is an anagram of An Insane Ti... hmm? shifty

Insane Titan
Anus77 is just a low lvl Carver clone

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
None of that contradicts anything I said. I know he escaped by turning his board to energy and then transmuting the board on the other side. That doesn't change the fact that he demonstrated space/time powers after he escaped but before Annihilation which means that he got them back when the barrier was taken down, not when he was upgraded in Annihilation. Galactus offered new power and to remove Surfer's remorse, Surfer said "no" to the removal of remorse but in no way said he didn't want the power increase.
It contradicted everything you said.

And surfer showing random space time powers have nothing to do with the fact that he was officially not with them and that's what Galactus gave him back.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Aww look at Quan commenting on me , you would of thought she would get over the butthurt . I guess I'm just too important to her life. You lied about what he meant when he broke it down for you point by point. You can't comprehend what he said and just rehash your old tired non points. Poor clone.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by quanchi112
You lied about what he meant when he broke it down for you point by point. You can't comprehend what he said and just rehash your old tired non points. Poor clone. I lied ! Can even read shemale?

He couldn't even get the fact right about how the fail safe worked.

Your crush on me is sad

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
It contradicted everything you said.

And surfer showing random space time powers have nothing to do with the fact that he was officially not with them and that's what Galactus gave him back.


He was only officially without them while he was trapped. Or do you have a statement from after his release but before Annihilation saying that he was still without them? Sounds like you're trying to extrapolate that meaning without proper foundation, and your method of doing so seems to be using a bio to contradict the space/time powers Surfer demonstrated on panel. But even if you were correct in regards to your theory(and you're not), what's more important bios or on panel feats?

abhilegend
Not really. He showed them while he was trapped on Earth.


This scan is from 1990 in History of The Marvel Universe, three years after Surfer was freed from Earth.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15764043/30.jpg.html

So there. you have it that even after that he was still without his space time powers. And its not a bio, its narration from the author.

Now stop talking out of your ass.

One-Punch
So If I'm reading this right, abhi is suggesting Galactus gave back Surfer's space-time powers in Annihilation?

abhilegend
Originally posted by One-Punch
So If I'm reading this right, abhi is suggesting Galactus gave back Surfer's space-time powers in Annihilation?
Unless "Restore" is somehow "Upgrade" in your dictionary? Galactus was specifically restoring Surfer and undoing what was once done in anger. So what else would Galactus restore surfer to when he only took his space time powers from him?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by abhilegend
Unless "Restore" is somehow "Upgrade" in your dictionary? Galactus was specifically restoring Surfer and undoing what was once done in anger. So what else would Galactus restore surfer to when he only took his space time powers from him?

His hair.

Estacado
Or his balls.

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really. He showed them while he was trapped on Earth.


This scan is from 1990 in History of The Marvel Universe, three years after Surfer was freed from Earth.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15764043/30.jpg.html

So there. you have it that even after that he was still without his space time powers. And its not a bio, its narration from the author.

Now stop talking out of your ass.


That doesn't say that he was still without them after he escaped from Earth. When has Marvel came out and said that Surfer got his space/time powers back during Annihilation or when after his escape but before Annihilation was it acknowledged that he was still without them?

For that matter, where in your own handbook scan does it say that Galactus took his space time powers, looks to me like it specifically says that Galactus didn't remove any of his superhuman powers and only mentions a barrier that he can't pass through....

Philosophía
Originally posted by Insane Titan
If you look at the scans the gauge next to the device is empty. When Thanos places his hand on the pad he starts to fill the gauge up. When Drax kills Thanos you can clearly see the gauge is full, all Surfer does is simply complete the sequence. I feel like this point has been almost completely glossed over, when it's one that completely nullifies "Surfer matched Thanos".

carver9
It was filled halfway.

Insane Titan

Newjak
Originally posted by Insane Titan
ignore what carver says the gauge is CLEARLY full when Drax kills Thanos If you look at the scan where Drax and Moondragon are talking after Drax kills Thanos you can clearly see that the power cell was just under halfway full based on the gauge.

So no it wasn't clearly full.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by Newjak
If you look at the scan where Drax and Moondragon are talking after Drax kills Thanos you can clearly see that the power cell was just under halfway full based on the gauge.

So no it wasn't clearly full. I'm talking about when Drax kills Thanos the gauge is full.

It not hard to understand the gauge went from yellow to red to indicate it was full, if you look at the starting point on the gauge when it's empty it's a darkish colour( that's where the gauge starts)

carver9
Originally posted by Newjak
If you look at the scan where Drax and Moondragon are talking after Drax kills Thanos you can clearly see that the power cell was just under halfway full based on the gauge.

So no it wasn't clearly full.

thumb up

DarkSaint85
Carver, post a scan. You're ready.

Newjak
Originally posted by Insane Titan
I'm talking about when Drax kills Thanos the gauge is full. Even if that were true, which it isn't, then the gauge not being full when Drax and Moondragon are talking would indicate that Surfer still had to fill some of it.

Secondly the only time we see the gauge when Drax shows up it is also clearly under the half way point.

Therefore it was not full. The only way you could possibly make the argument that it was filled at the time Drax killed Thanos is if you were looking at drawing wrong. As in you were assuming the red section of the gauge was the full section.

But clearly the gauge started from right at red and was filling up towards the left and never got past the halfway point at yellow.

EDIT: Also I really don't think this proves that Surfer was or was not powered up.

Personally I don't think he was powered up, but obviously the gauge was not full.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by Newjak
Even if that were true, which it isn't, then the gauge not being full when Drax and Moondragon are talking would indicate that Surfer still had to fill some of it.

Secondly the only time we see the gauge when Drax shows up it is also clearly under the half way point.

Therefore it was not full. The only way you could possibly make the argument that it was filled at the time Drax killed Thanos is if you were looking at drawing wrong. As in you were assuming the red section of the gauge was the full section.

But clearly the gauge started from right at red and was filling up towards the left and never got past the halfway point at yellow. read the rest of my last post , when the gauge was empty the meter on it was dark and you see it filling up In yellow from left to right iirc.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver, post a scan. You're ready.

Half way full baby. It wasn't even half way.

http://s179.photobucket.com/user/illadelph12_prime/media/ann_05_006_zps26d563f1.jpg.html

Not only that...Thanos took forever to get it to that point. Surfer filled the rest in one quick burst of energy.

http://s179.photobucket.com/user/illadelph12_prime/media/ann_05_009_zpsda89c77d.jpg.html

Before Drax attacked Thanos, Thanos admits he needs more time.

http://s179.photobucket.com/user/illadelph12_prime/media-full//ann_04_024_zpsa2b82978.jpg.html

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