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who wins who dies?

Vitiate gets GODSTOMPED.

Though he'd take either one solo, Vitiate falls to the duo.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Though he'd take either one solo, Vitiate falls to the duo.

Lmao you said he'd lose to Bane solo, but he can beat these two 1 v 1 even though they're more powerful than Bane

Never really know with Vitiate.

Vader ragdolls Vitiate

Vitiate mindhaxxes either and turns the tides!

Originally posted by carthage
Vader ragdolls Vitiate Vader is pretty damn OP

Is this before or after Kun blows him to smithereens with blasts or Vader paints the ground red with his blood?

He'd take either one individually IMO. Somewhat Solidly, too. Against both? He goes down.

Very interesting. Is this unprepped or prepped Vitiate? In the first case he gets brutally murdered and either team member could solo (not stomp however). In the second case he probably wouldn't go down so easily, but Vader and Exar Kun are absolutely the perfect strike team to do that. Vader can distract Vitiate by summoning winds against him while Exar Kun charges his Force Blasts and kills him.
Team takes this for a very solid majority.

Prepped Vitiate annihilates them tbh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Prepped Vitiate annihilates them tbh.

Inb4 strike team > Kun + Vader

Prepped Vitiate soloed a DC. They don't need to be greater than Kun and Vader.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Prepped Vitiate soloed a DC. They don't need to be greater than Kun and Vader.

Kind of does.

If a force storm can take out 4 random Jedi padawans, does that mean It can take out a master? If it shreds the barrier of four featless knights, does that mean it would shred the barrier of a Grand Master just because if you added them together they might have the same potential?

No, storms don't work like that, and we have no idea if said ritual works in the same way or in a different way. We know nothing about it....

Plus.... Nexus.

Considering how DC council members are featless Kun or Vader could annihilate an entire one on their own as well imo.

Originally posted by carthage
Considering how DC council members are featless Kun or Vader could annihilate an entire one on their own as well imo.

No, they couldn't, even as a team, or at least not easily. Those 12 Sith Lords are among the most powerful in the empire so they aren't cannon fodder.

Vitiate, however has never displayed that kind of power (the "flash of light" in combat, even when it would have clearly been useful (unless someone argues that Vitiate underestimates his opponents THAT much) and that's why the team should take this.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
No, they couldn't, even as a team, or at least not easily. Those 12 Sith Lords are among the most powerful in the empire so they aren't cannon fodder.

Vitiate, however has never displayed that kind of power (the "flash of light" in combat, even when it would have clearly been useful (unless someone argues that Vitiate underestimates his opponents THAT much) and that's why the team should take this.

They lack feats to compare to either of them, and superior numbers and the fact that the DC is mainly a political body doesnt prove your case. Both of these guys are among the greatest Sith to ever exist, an entire council of featless beings who are nothing more than accolades means nothing. They are fodder

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Never really know with Vitiate.

I agree. FLS might take them down but overall power wise, the duo should be a lethal threat to any jedi/sith.

Originally posted by Selenial
Kind of does.

If a force storm can take out 4 random Jedi padawans, does that mean It can take out a master? If it shreds the barrier of four featless knights, does that mean it would shred the barrier of a Grand Master just because if you added them together they might have the same potential?

No, storms don't work like that, and we have no idea if said ritual works in the same way or in a different way. We know nothing about it....

Plus.... Nexus.

Nah.

Well I think its a fallacy to say that a DC member is comparable to a padawan as Vader is to a Master. Remember that he hardly stomped An'ya Kuro or Obi-Wan and people on his level (Marek) had good fights against Council-level opponents. And yeah, I think that if you can take out a group of people who have the same total power as 1 person then you can take them out too. Regardless though, it would kick the shit out of them enough that he'd be able to pwn them afterwards. Plus I was more thinking about my original point: Mindhaxx.

The nexus doesn't matter, they were all Sith....

I wonder if you'd still be this skeptical if we were talking about Traya smacking around/killing the Council or killing those Sith Assassins.

Viitaite.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah.

Well I think its a fallacy to say that a DC member is comparable to a padawan as Vader is to a Master. Remember that he hardly stomped An'ya Kuro or Obi-Wan and people on his level (Marek) had good fights against Council-level opponents. And yeah, I think that if you can take out a group of people who have the same total power as 1 person then you can take them out too. Regardless though, it would kick the shit out of them enough that he'd be able to pwn them afterwards. Plus I was more thinking about my original point: Mindhaxx.

The nexus doesn't matter, they were all Sith....

I wonder if you'd still be this skeptical if we were talking about Traya smacking around/killing the Council or killing those Sith Assassins.

An'ya Kuro, the ***** who could ****ing teleport? And Obi-Wan, the greatest Soresu master in history, against ANH Vader? Noting ofc how shit ANH Vader is, it's a testament to his prowess that he actually managed to stalemate Kenobi.

Marek increased exponentially, to say he had good fights with Council members is a joke. Shaak Ti was on a Light Side Nexus, in control of a Saarlac and on a planet that gave her species of Jedi an unimaginable amp and still lost. Marek stomped council members...

And I don't believe that, personally, it just doesnt make sense to me.

As for the Nexus, not really the same when prep is involved...

And sue me, Vitiate is constantly overrated and sucked off on literally every forum in some form or another (Lightsaber master cause reasons, really Neph?) and this is the first forum where Traya isn't abhorrently underrated.... Still, no I wouldn't say Traya would beat these two. In a three way duel she'd win, (We had a battlezone about that) but not a 2v1...

Again being "council level" says nothing about the accomplishments of party members, and with the addition of a nexus or prep its not really as great of a feat as what Vader or Kun have done on their own. If Vitiate had killed an entire council full of of fighters like Baras or Nox it might mean something. But given that its just a rank and they have no showings its a meaningless comparison to what Vader or Kun have done

Originally posted by Selenial
An'ya Kuro, the ***** who could ****ing teleport? And Obi-Wan, the greatest Soresu master in history, against ANH Vader? Noting ofc how shit ANH Vader is, it's a testament to his prowess that he actually managed to stalemate Kenobi.

Marek increased exponentially, to say he had good fights with Council members is a joke. Shaak Ti was on a Light Side Nexus, in control of a Saarlac and on a planet that gave her species of Jedi an unimaginable amp and still lost. Marek stomped council members...

And I don't believe that, personally, it just doesnt make sense to me.

As for the Nexus, not really the same when prep is involved...

And sue me, Vitiate is constantly overrated and sucked off on literally every forum in some form or another (Lightsaber master cause reasons, really Neph?) and this is the first forum where Traya isn't abhorrently underrated.... Still, no I wouldn't say Traya would beat these two. In a three way duel she'd win, (We had a battlezone about that) but not a 2v1...

I think you're overrating Marek, and where was it stated that Felucia was a light side nexus? What proof do you have that Marek improved that much in power?

Oh, and if you are interested, there is respect thread for Kreia on ComicVine. It seems well done to me

Comicvine sucks. Don't go there!

Originally posted by Selenial
An'ya Kuro, the ***** who could ****ing teleport? And Obi-Wan, the greatest Soresu master in history, against ANH Vader? Noting ofc how shit ANH Vader is, it's a testament to his prowess that he actually managed to stalemate Kenobi.

Marek increased exponentially, to say he had good fights with Council members is a joke. Shaak Ti was on a Light Side Nexus, in control of a Saarlac and on a planet that gave her species of Jedi an unimaginable amp and still lost. Marek stomped council members...

And I don't believe that, personally, it just doesnt make sense to me.

As for the Nexus, not really the same when prep is involved...

And sue me, Vitiate is constantly overrated and sucked off on literally every forum in some form or another (Lightsaber master cause reasons, really Neph?) and this is the first forum where Traya isn't abhorrently underrated.... Still, no I wouldn't say Traya would beat these two. In a three way duel she'd win, (We had a battlezone about that) but not a 2v1...

Who wasn't even on the Council, which means Vader sucks tru fax. And please, Obi-Wan was old and waaaay out of practice. He was pretty shite. Just like Vader.

Eh, it wasn't really ever made clear that Marek increased THAT much in TFU. Its more accepted fanon to explain how he goes from fighting Kota to Vader. And the only council members Marek stomped were the junk mannequins that crazy goblin built.

Does it not make logical sense? If you can exceed 4 2's then why not an 8?

But what if the dark council was also prepped???? Also nah.

I never said he was a lightsaber master, just that its ridiculous to think that a being of his gargantuan amounts of power can't amplify his physical stats to respectable levels and baseball-bat swing his way through Jedi Knights. I highly doubt that "Force Speed" isn't in his unfathomable well of force knowledge or that he has a padawan-esque grasp of it. Also, Vitiate was pretty much conceived as a character meant to be sucked off. I mean he ate 8000 Sith Lords and is immortal and 1400 years old and one-shots Dark Councils and Revan and Malak and pwned a Strike Team and blah blah blah. Theres a reason his skin is so white in TOR and it isn't darkside corruption, if you know what I mean. :winku:

And you misunderstand, I was wondering if you'd question her feats like you do Vitiates, not whether she'd beat these guys. She also was on a nexus (when she killed those assassins). Its also unclear if her victims were defending themselves. The numbers of the victims might also not indicate her chances against more advanced opponents. Of course, I give her full credit for these things but still I am lecturing you on DOUBLE STANDARDS. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

Originally posted by Nargaroth
I think you're overrating Marek, and where was it stated that Felucia was a light side nexus? What proof do you have that Marek improved that much in power?

Oh, and if you are interested, there is respect thread for Kreia on ComicVine. It seems well done to me

Marek incinerated Stormtroopers with a force repulse, he's not a mook.

I think it was the novel? I dunno, the planet is a nexus of force energy, and it was described Somewhere that Shaak Ti's presence had turned the entire planet towards the light via the Felucians force alignment.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I never said he was a lightsaber master, just that its ridiculous to think that a being of his gargantuan amounts of power can't amplify his physical stats to respectable levels and baseball-bat swing his way through Jedi Knights. I highly doubt that "Force Speed" isn't in his unfathomable well of force knowledge or that he has a padawan-esque grasp of it. Also, Vitiate was pretty much conceived as a character meant to be sucked off. I mean he ate 8000 Sith Lords and is immortal and 1400 years old and one-shots Dark Councils and Revan and Malak and pwned a Strike Team and blah blah blah. Theres a reason his skin is so white in TOR and it isn't darkside corruption, if you know what I mean. :winku:

And you misunderstand, I was wondering if you'd question her feats like you do Vitiates, not whether she'd beat these guys. She also was on a nexus (when she killed those assassins). Its also unclear if her victims were defending themselves. The numbers of the victims might also not indicate her chances against more advanced opponents. Of course, I give her full credit for these things but still I am lecturing you on DOUBLE STANDARDS. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

You kind of did say he was a master... Btu I aint opening that argument up again.

And I do question her feats, killing 8 assassins in an instant doesnt mean she can do the same to Sion. The fact that she force chokes sion like a puppy indicates she can do it to him.

I don't really have to question her feats because the fact is, despite only appearing in one game and a few sourcebooks, we know more about her powers than Vitiates.

Marek did that in the non-canon trailer. That scene never occurred in the 1st or 2nd Force Unleashed storylines.

You're right about the nexus though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Marek did that in the non-canon trailer. That scene never occurred in the 1st or 2nd Force Unleashed storylines.

You're right about the nexus though.

As per the old canon rules (Which are still in place for determining Legends continuity) anything branded with the name Star Wars and released under the brand of any Lucasfilm subsidiary is C-Canon.... So yes, it happened.

It's the same exact reason that the Return, Deceived and Hope trailers are all canon...

Neph is mad at the Vine because Silver and Shootingnova owned him in arguments lol . Also ANH Vader and ANH Vader are still more powerful than any of the mook Jedi that Vitiate beat in the strike team or the fodder dark council.

Also, Kenobi doesn't look to be out of practice any more, since he is actually leading the Rebel cell in Star Wars: Rebels...

Originally posted by Selenial
Marek incinerated Stormtroopers with a force repulse, he's not a mook.

I think it was the novel? I dunno, the planet is a nexus of force energy, and it was described Somewhere that Shaak Ti's presence had turned the entire planet towards the light via the Felucians force alignment.

Never said that he was a mook. His clone however, is far more powerful (heck, he is actually even above Plagueis) and that feat was done by him (that's in the TFU2 Snow trailer), not Marek. For that matter the clone also vaporized stormtroopers with nothing but a short burst of Lightning.

Originally posted by Selenial
As per the old canon rules (Which are still in place for determining Legends continuity) anything branded with the name Star Wars and released under the brand of any Lucasfilm subsidiary is C-Canon.... So yes, it happened.

It's the same exact reason that the Return, Deceived and Hope trailers are all canon...

But it couldn't possibly have happened. Theres no scene in TFU2 where that happens or opportunities for it to have taken place. I mean, you might as well say this trailer happened too. I mean, isn't there another trailer showing the clone escaping that directly contradicts how he actually escapes in the game?

Naw, they're canon because they were built off of to be integral parts of the lore. Those scenes are referenced multiple times as having occured. The force unleashed trailer are non-diegetic and shit. They're just fancy trailers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But it couldn't possibly have happened. Theres no scene in TFU2 where that happens or opportunities for it to have taken place. I mean, you might as well say this trailer happened too. I mean, isn't there another trailer showing the clone escaping that directly contradicts how he actually escapes in the game?

Naw, they're canon because they were built off of to be integral parts of the lore. Those scenes are referenced multiple times as having occured. The force unleashed trailer are non-diegetic and shit. They're just fancy trailers.

So your opinion > Lucasarts, Lucas, and everyone that works there?

^Thats how it generally works with Nephs "arguments"

Originally posted by Nargaroth
No, they couldn't, even as a team, or at least not easily. Those 12 Sith Lords are among the most powerful in the empire so they aren't cannon fodder.

Vitiate, however has never displayed that kind of power (the "flash of light" in combat, even when it would have clearly been useful (unless someone argues that Vitiate underestimates his opponents THAT much) and that's why the team should take this. Darth Karrid, a DC master, got stomped in seconds by Gnost-Dural while she was on a dark side nexus.

Clearly not all of them are that great.

Originally posted by Selenial
As per the old canon rules (Which are still in place for determining Legends continuity) anything branded with the name Star Wars and released under the brand of any Lucasfilm subsidiary is C-Canon.... So yes, it happened.

It's the same exact reason that the Return, Deceived and Hope trailers are all canon...
Too bad in game/book he was shown to be ANH Vader level, and while those trailers are confirmed parts of TOR's story, Starkiller's, who isn't Marek by the way, never were.

Neph is approaching SW legend tier in hilarity

Random featless Dark council members > Galen Marek, ANH Vader and Kenobi? Wow

Vader solos. Adding Kun is a godstomp.

You troll Vitiates extreme force reserves make him faster and stonger than either of them. He can kill them like he did to those powerful Dark council members that are >>> Galen Marek and Vader.

Vitiate wins

Oh my God... not this shit again!

Originally posted by carthage
Neph is approaching SW legend tier in hilarity

Random featless Dark council members > Galen Marek, ANH Vader and Kenobi? Wow
I'm not going to comment on that, but saying Galen can disintegrate mooks in trailer, but never in actual showing, is kind of pointless too.

Not like my bro Plagueis.

Originally posted by carthage
Neph is approaching SW legend tier in hilarity

Random featless Dark council members > Galen Marek, ANH Vader and Kenobi? Wow

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I'm not going to comment on that, but saying Galen can disintegrate mooks in trailer, but never in actual showing, is kind of pointless too.

Not like my bro Plagueis.

I think Zapan mean that his raw power in the force surpassed Hego's. Which disintegrating half of a frigate is ****ing impressive and a superior feat to Plagueis disintegrating armored torso and flesh.

Does that mean Starkiller could take Hego in a fight, lol no

Originally posted by carthage
I think Zapan mean that his raw power in the force surpassed Hego's. Which disintegrating half of a frigate is ****ing impressive and a superior feat to Plagueis disintegrating armored torso and flesh.

Does that mean Starkiller could take Hego in a fight, lol no
Except Starkiller never does that. He repulses and already blowing up ship, and that only happens in the Wii version, i.e. the Bullshit Edition.

Originally posted by carthage
Neph is approaching SW legend tier in hilarity

Random featless Dark council members > Galen Marek, ANH Vader and Kenobi? Wow

That's a strawman, all he's saying that being on the Council is a solid feat in itself and most of them aren't random mooks.

Now of course he may believe that Marek or Kenobi loses to these featless council members but that wasn't the argument...yet.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Marek did that in the non-canon trailer. That scene never occurred in the 1st or 2nd Force Unleashed storylines.

You're right about the nexus though.

It doesn't matter. In the novel he disintegrated a ship that dwarfs ISD's and withstood heat that could be found in the core of a sun.

And no, it's not just in the Wii version, it's in the novel.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And no, it's not just in the Wii version, it's in the novel.
Is it? The fact still remains, despite whatever raw power he is supposed to have, it never translates into an actual fight with people who couldn't withstand power on that scale at any other time.

Originally posted by carthage
You troll Vitiates extreme force reserves make him faster and stonger than either of them. He can kill them like he did to those powerful Dark council members that are >>> Galen Marek and Vader.

Vitiate wins
Whoops, I misread. I thought they fight Bane. My bad.

Ha, and who's trolling now, you ignorant twit. Vitiate's the uberest force powers won't even come into play. He stomps them in lightsaber combat, duh!

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Oh my God... not this shit again!

Originally posted by Stigma
Whoops, I misread. I thought they fight Bane. My bad.

Ha, and who's trolling now, you ignorant twit. Vitiate's the uberest force powers won't even come into play. He stomps them in lightsaber combat, duh!

Don't call me a twit you lowballing rapscallion! Vitiate's lightsaber abilities and force speed don't need to have feats to prove he's powerful, he stomps because beating an entire dark council is better than anyone with showings Vader/Kun have beaten.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It doesn't matter. In the novel he disintegrated a ship that dwarfs ISD's and withstood heat that could be found in the core of a sun.

And no, it's not just in the Wii version, it's in the novel.

Woah I'm gunna need some quote from the novel for that. Not that I don't believe you but I only heard about him destroying a frigate, not that the ship was bigger than an ISD and not the core of the sun bit.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Woah I'm gunna need some quote from the novel for that. Not that I don't believe you but I only heard about him destroying a frigate, not that the ship was bigger than an ISD and not the core of the sun bit.

Here's the quote. Notice that he did this with just seconds left, and while maintaining a Force Barrier:


This was where it got difficult. He needed to maintain the Force shield against the sort of heat he might find in the outer layers of a star. He also had to keep in mind the target ahead-a target he couldn't see through the plasma, but had to hit square-on or else the planetary shield generators wouldn't fail. No matter what happened, he had to fly straight.

Just seconds remained before the Salvation's fore section hit Kamino. The facility was in close focus ahead of him, and he imagined he could see Juno's eyes widening on seeing him, haloed with his Force shield on top of her precious ship.

Did she know it was him, or did she wonder at this strange apparition? Did she imagine that he was her death coming at last, from the skies instead of Darth Vader's hand?

Starkiller closed his eyes. He didn't have time to wonder what was going through her mind. He had to think of something fast, or Juno was going to die.

There was only one thing he could do, and although he knew he wasn't likely to survive, he didn't hesitate. What was death when the love of his former life was at stake? Besides, anything was possible. Dying, as he had thought once before, always seemed to bring out the best in him.

With his mind and all the power of the Force, Starkiller embraced what remained of the frigate beneath him-and blew it into a billion pieces

The ship was almost upon them when the figure brought his hands down in a fierce, pounding motion, and the last solid fragment of the Salivation exploded into fiery pieces.

Juno coughed and wished she could wipe her eyes clear of ash. Her ship had blown itself practically to atoms; she had seen it happen, right in front of her. There was no chance at all that Starkiller could have survived. He had been riding right on top of it.

Starkiller's eyes jerked open. Where was he? All was dark around him. He smelled smoke and his body felt as though it had been hit by an asteroid. The last thing he remembered was tightening the Force shield around him and destroying the Salvation so it wouldn't kill Juno.

--The Force Unleashed II


Believe it or not, this guy is truly a beast with the Force, and not just with TK. He also has very impressive Force Barriers, impressive stamina, and extremely powerful Lightning. He's basically top tier in power. His only flaw is that he is not a great duellist.

Originally posted by Selenial
So your opinion > Lucasarts, Lucas, and everyone that works there?



Contrary to what you said, not everything is unquestionably canon. The trailers are sufficiently contradicted in the story material to be clearly non-canonical.

Vader or Kun alone would be a very good challenge for Vitiate.

Put them together and they win 7/10.

I lol'ed.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
He's basically top tier in power. His only flaw is that he is not a great duellist.
Not really. The problem with calling Marek top-tier is that it never translates into an actual fight, mostly because everyone else has similar abilities to him when they're presented. Hell in the beginning of TFU, Kota almost collapses a space station.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not really. The problem with calling Marek top-tier is that it never translates into an actual fight, mostly because everyone else has similar abilities to him when they're presented. Hell in the beginning of TFU, Kota almost collapses a space station.

I was talking about the clone, not Marek, who is only in Vader's class (which is high tier). The difference is huge, and the clone is far more powerful. Kota only ripped a command tower from a facility, not the facility itself, and he required at least high effort to perform that feat. Kota is only in Obi-Wan's class.

Not really. The Clone is below Vader in raw power and sabers, the only Vader he being comparable to is TFUII Vader, by his own admission I might add. And Kota isn't Obi-Wan level. The fact of the matter is, EVERYONE, was blown way out of proportion for TFU. Finally, last I checked that tower was a major part of the facility, so I don't see your point.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Woah I'm gunna need some quote from the novel for that. Not that I don't believe you but I only heard about him destroying a frigate, not that the ship was bigger than an ISD and not the core of the sun bit.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608005406196174016&pid=15.1&P=0

You think that thing is smaller than an ISD? I mean, I guess it could be.

Its not even close.

Plus alot of it had been seperated or burnt away in freefall by that part.

You're right, it's about the size of the Endar Spire--2/3s the size of a smaller Star Destroyer. The larger ones dwarf it.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not really. The Clone is below Vader in raw power and sabers, the only Vader he being comparable to is TFUII Vader, by his own admission I might add. And Kota isn't Obi-Wan level. The fact of the matter is, EVERYONE, was blown way out of proportion for TFU. Finally, last I checked that tower was a major part of the facility, so I don't see your point.

The clone is far below only in sabers, and he only stated that he could stalemate a Vader who was holding back in that regard, nothing more. It has no relevance with power.

No, not everyone was blown out of proportion, and Kota is in Obi Wan's class. The latter has done most of his feats with moderate effort. Kota has probably better feats, but they required high effort.

That tower was not that huge, and destroying a facility or space station is a showing on Anakin/Vader's class. Kota was stomped by Vader, so...

My point is that Starkiller is top tier, and even if he just disintegrated 50 mt of that ship, his feat still exceeds those of Darth Plagueis.

Hey NewFuy and Nargorath, quit being noobs. We can't use TFU feats as evidence despite them being every bit as valid and canon as those in TOR.

Originally posted by ares834
Hey NewFuy and Nargorath, quit being noobs. We can't use TFU feats as evidence despite them being every bit as valid and canon as those in TOR.

I don't think the point was about the validity of TFU feats. It was about the validity of those feats from the TFU trailers, and that should be correct, considering that they do contradict the storyline, whereas the events in the TOR's trailers clearly take place before the game and are actually referenced (both in-game and in the Deceived novel).

Originally posted by Nargaroth
The clone is far below only in sabers, and he only stated that he could stalemate a Vader who was holding back in that regard, nothing more. It has no relevance with power.

Vader outclasses the clone in every way. Seriously.

Did you just say the guy's who only real feat is losing is comparable to Obi-Wan?

And Obi-Wan never has been. Not even when Vader was a few years from his peak. Kota's outclassed in every way.

Originally posted by ares834
Hey NewFuy and Nargorath, quit being noobs. We can't use TFU feats as evidence despite them being every bit as valid and canon as those in TOR.
This isn't even about TOR, in my case, anyway. It's about the Starkiller wank and the Obi-Wan lowballing.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Contrary to what you said, not everything is unquestionably canon. The trailers are sufficiently contradicted in the story material to be clearly non-canonical.

Not really.

Starkiller had multiple missions, we pick up with TFU when he's been allowed to kill Jedi, not sent to go get a rogue moff.

Inb4 "but he didnt believe it was possible on Raxus" - There's ways around that that are plainly obvious.

As for Galen's escape in TFU 2, Vader clearly states that he's not the first clone to break out of the Kaminoan center, that was likely one of the other failed attempts.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608005406196174016&pid=15.1&P=0

You think that thing is smaller than an ISD? I mean, I guess it could be.

It's a Nebulon B frigate, Jesus people, play Empire at war.

300 meters long, 72 meters wide.

Imp-1 is 1600 meters long....


So yeh. That.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader outclasses the clone in every way. Seriously.

No, he doesn't. Not in power, where he is clearly outclassed. When Vader can perform the above mentioned feat, (see the quote I posted on page 3) you can call him equal to the Starkiller clone.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Did you just say the guy's who only real feat is losing is comparable to Obi-Wan?

It seems that you're confusing Force power with lightsaber skill. They're not the same thing, and of course Kota is a mediocre duellist compared to Obi-Wan. For power, Kota has also deflected Lightning with the Force (a challenge for even the greatest Jedi Masters as per The Ultimate Visual Guide).

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And Obi-Wan never has been. Not even when Vader was a few years from his peak. Kota's outclassed in every way.

So what? The only reason why Kenobi wasn't wrecked with the Force is that Vader is a brute Juggernaut who prefers to solve problems with a lightsaber, which he admitted in the Book of the Sith.

A younger Kenobi was stomped by Maul and Dooku. Do you want to put them above Vader because of that? They're clearly not.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice


What does Plagueis have that puts him above Starkiller in terms of TK? Right, nothing. If he is superior, provide feats. I already have. Laughing won't help your case.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
This isn't even about TOR, in my case, anyway. It's about the Starkiller wank and the Obi-Wan lowballing.

There is no Starkiller wank. His feats are right there and are crystal clear for anyone willig to acknowledge them. You're either wanking Vader or severely underestimating Starkiller. And Kota is a powerful Jedi, so I don't get how Obi-Wan is getting lowballed.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
EVERYONE, was blown way out of proportion for TFU.




Ahahhaa.... wut?

Oh you're serious?..... Hahhaahhaahahaha

Dat fanboy. Very strong. Much wow.

Originally posted by Selenial
Not really.

Starkiller had multiple missions, we pick up with TFU when he's been allowed to kill Jedi, not sent to go get a rogue moff.

Inb4 "but he didnt believe it was possible on Raxus" - There's ways around that that are plainly obvious.

As for Galen's escape in TFU 2, Vader clearly states that he's not the first clone to break out of the Kaminoan center, that was likely one of the other failed attempts.

Yes, really. Please explain to me the plainly obvious ways to get around Marek stating its impossible to merely turn a ISD thats in freefall if he'd previously ripped one right out of the damn sky. It's a trailer, it is not canon. You might as well argue the box art is canon next, lol. It's a piece of promotional advertising, not anything actually canon.

Failed attempts, yes. They were all completely insane and unable to be the clone from the trailer. And I don't recall Vader saying others had successfully escaped and I highly doubt any of them went to the exact same arena as is in the game and also happened to fight the Gorog like in the game, which is in another trailer.

Originally posted by Selenial



Ahahhaa.... wut?

Oh you're serious?..... Hahhaahhaahahaha

Dat fanboy. Very strong. Much wow.

He's right though.

Team stomps rather viciously.

Originally posted by Nargaroth



Nargaroth I skimmed your Vader respect thread early this morning. It was really good, though I've not yet read it thoroughly. Also, I'll get back to your reply to me on comic vine some time later. TBH, though, I'd rather you make a Vader vs Orbalisk Bane, as comic vine is very strict about going off-topic. Or if you can or want, you can PM me. I'm just curious as to why you put Orbalisk Bane solidly above Vader. As for your comment about Plagueis being solidly above Vader, I disagree. Plagueis force knowledge and speed are above Vader's, but as far as their power output, well, I think Plagueis is overrated and some of his feats are taken out of context (for example, he's never scorched anyone to ash with lightning).

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Team stomps rather viciously.




Nargaroth I skimmed your Vader respect thread early this morning. It was really good, though I've not yet read it thoroughly. Also, I'll get back to your reply to me on comic vine some time later. TBH, though, I'd rather you make a Vader vs Orbalisk Bane, as comic vine is very strict about going off-topic. Or if you can or want, you can PM me. I'm just curious as to why you put Orbalisk Bane solidly above Vader. As for your comment about Plagueis being solidly above Vader, I disagree. Plagueis force knowledge and speed are above Vader's, but as far as their power output, well, I think Plagueis is overrated and some of his feats are taken out of context (for example, he never scorched anyone to ash with lightning).

So you're Dominis. Didn't know you were a member here.

I suggest you PM me on CV for the other question if you wish to know what I think, or create a thread yourself on that site. This is not the right place.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
So you're Dominis. Didn't know you were a member here.

I suggest you PM me on CV for the other question if you wish to know what I think, or create a thread yourself on that site. This is not the right place.


Yes, that's me. I knew who you were because you referenced your Fay respect thread on here.

I'll PM you there later. I know this isn't the right place. I just brought it up in this thread since you're currently posting here and no one cares about going off-topic here, but I wasn't trying to start a debate with you on the matter here; it was just easy to get your attention and I don't too much log in on comic vine while on my phone.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I think Plagueis is overrated and some of his feats are taken out of context (for example, he's never scorched anyone to ash with lightning).

I wouldn't really use this as a concrete establishment of his power (or lack there of.) Unless of course you believe Darth Nyriss to be stronger than Plagueis.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yes, that's me. I knew who you were because you referenced your Fay respect thread on here.

I'll PM you there later. I know this isn't the right place. I just brought it up in this thread since you're currently posting here and no one cares about going off-topic here, but I wasn't trying to start a debate with you on the matter here; it was just easy to get your attention and I don't too much log in on comic vine while on my phone.

I see. Oh, I have just created that thread if you're interested. And of course it's better not to debate her, because we're already OT.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I wouldn't really use this as a concrete establishment of his power (or lack there of.) Unless of course you believe Darth Nyriss to be stronger than Plagueis.


Of course not. Plaqueis is immensely powerful, and he's displayed his raw power in other areas. I just believe he's a bit overrated and that some of his feats are taken out of context. I didn't use that example as a way of lowballing him (he is one of my favorite characters, after all); I used it because many use that particular feat as one of his best displays of raw power, but it's really not, and it's usually taken out of context. The particular feat doesn't make him weaker just because it's usually taken out of context, IMO, it's just not one of his best feats, and he wasn't exactly using his maximum output in that single attack.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
I see. Oh, I have just created that thread if you're interested. And of course it's better not to debate her, because we're already OT.


Which thread, the one of Master Fay?

TBH, I actually just wanted a brief analysis from you concerning Bane/Plagueis vs Vader, as I could probably learn from you. If, however, I don't agree with it, it may lead to a debate, but that's not my intention.

Edit: never mind. You meant here, not her.

I'll take a look at it later. Don't know how fast I'll be with the replies, BTW, so if I take long, don't take it as I forgot and that I just wasted your time.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
No, he doesn't. Not in power, where he is clearly outclassed. When Vader can perform the above mentioned feat, (see the quote I posted on page 3) you can call him equal to the Starkiller clone.

I lol'd. If you think the Starkiller that barely holds a candle to TFUII Vader is superior to RotJ Vader in anything, we have nothing more to discuss.


You're confusing the fact that Kota has done nothing with the fact that he lost. Both Force and Saber skills take parts in duels, and Kenobi has shown himself more tolerable to both than Kota ever has, were as the later got blasted around by with Lighting by a Marek that was below/at Shaak Ti level.


Lulz, Vader uses the Force all the time. The fact that he prefers his Lightsaber doesn't mean that he won't use it in combat, and he was obviously struggling with Obi-Wan the entire duel. But I digress, Vader outclasses Kenobi in TK, sure. How does that mean Kota is on Kenobi's level?

When did I say Kenobi was at Vader's level? This is about Kenobi being better than Kota. The fact is Kota was lolstomped by Trainee Marek who is below Dooku and Maul. Kenobi may not be on Marek level, but he's above Kota.

An actual showing that isn't in a trailer? Chocking out Sidious? Crazy Force-enhanced strength?

Starkiller himself admits something, but I'm the one wanking. I guess when a character admits his own limitations compared to someone below his prime, they're wrong because they can fly outside a spaceship.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice Starkiller himself admits something, but I'm the one wanking. I guess when a character admits his own limitations compared to someone below his prime, they're wrong because they can fly outside a spaceship.

Lol.

Cause POV is totally the definition of Canon.

Starkiller feared Vader because he was conditioned to. Everything Vader taught him he did though aggression and fear to stop Starkiller ever getting the notion that he could challenge Vader once they "Killed the emperor."
Just because this conditioning remains doesnt mean he's actually that much inferior to him, if he's even inferior at all.

Originally posted by Selenial
Lol.

Cause POV is totally the definition of Canon.

Starkiller feared Vader because he was conditioned to. Everything Vader taught him he did though aggression and fear to stop Starkiller ever getting the notion that he could challenge Vader once they "Killed the emperor."
Just because this conditioning remains doesnt mean he's actually that much inferior to him, if he's even inferior at all.
No one says he is inferior, and the actual duel shows them as equals. At that point. TFUII Vader isn't Vader's peak. Far from it. Vader outclasses what we've seen from Starkiller. There's no way around it.

Nah, Starkiller > Vader imo.

Hah, no.

I can see Starkiller lolstomping and disintegrating Bane though

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I lol'd. If you think the Starkiller that barely holds a candle to TFUII Vader is superior to RotJ Vader in anything, we have nothing more to discuss.

This is a strawman argument that doesn't adress my point, and it's honestly getting frustrating. First of all, I never stated that Starkiller holds a candle to Vader in duelling skill, and he is in fact VASTLY below him. I said that he far outclasses Vader in POWER.

Not only that but TFU II only takes place 5 years before ROTJ, and Vader never vastly improved in power after ANH, only in skill. He certainly became more powerful by at least a moderate degree, but there is no evidence that he vastly improved in that regard.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You're confusing the fact that Kota has done nothing with the fact that he lost. Both Force and Saber skills take parts in duels, and Kenobi has shown himself more tolerable to both than Kota ever has, were as the later got blasted around by with Lighting by a Marek that was below/at Shaak Ti level.

Kenobi was stomped more than once by Maul and Dooku. And Kota did block Lightning from Galen, who by this time, was already good enough to kill a Rancor with it. The Lightning blasted both of them back anyway. Marek didn't improve vastly in power.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Lulz, Vader uses the Force all the time. The fact that he prefers his Lightsaber doesn't mean that he won't use it in combat, and he was obviously struggling with Obi-Wan the entire duel. But I digress, Vader outclasses Kenobi in TK, sure. How does that mean Kota is on Kenobi's level?

No, he doesn't. Granted, it's not like he never uses it, his struggling against Obi-Wan in a pure duel has NOTHING to do with the fact that Vader could have stomped him at any time with the Force.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
When did I say Kenobi was at Vader's level? This is about Kenobi being better than Kota. The fact is Kota was lolstomped by Trainee Marek who is below Dooku and Maul. Kenobi may not be on Marek level, but he's above Kota.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
An actual showing that isn't in a trailer? Chocking out Sidious? Crazy Force-enhanced strength?

The showing I posted was NOT from the trailer. It was from the novel, and Plagueis only chocked Sidious when the latter was distracted.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Starkiller himself admits something, but I'm the one wanking. I guess when a character admits his own limitations compared to someone below his prime, they're wrong because they can fly outside a spaceship.

Again, Starkiller was talking about duelling skill, not power. And he DISINTEGRATED a ship, not just flew outside it.

Vitiate gets ragdolled, and then disintegratd by Kuns blasts.