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Why is your beliefs and practices so violent against non Muslims. Also why do you discriminate against women? Considering western culture and most of the world think how you treat women, they consider the men of Islam pigs, but you won't eat bacon because its unclean. Isn't the whole religion unclean as well.

Explain

Guess Eminem will never answer.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Guess Eminem will never answer.

Good guess.

I friend of mine explained to me that there are different sects of muslims and not all of them are the same.

Some sects are more liberal on their ideas

And it's not like the OP is filled with Loaded Questions, not at all

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Why is your beliefs and practices so violent against non Muslims. Also why do you discriminate against women? Probably for the same reason Christianity has been so violent toward not-Christians and discriminatory toward women.

i'm not muslim. just want to say a few things.

1. depending on who you talk to, the quran can be interpreted as not condoning any sort of violence by muslims on innocent and non-threatening non-muslims.

2. with the women thing... i dunno. i was in a relationship with a muslim girl for a long time and basically the impression she gave me is that they (muslim women) don't see it as oppression but rather god giving different roles to the different sexes. she would always say there are things a woman is entitled to that a man isn't and vice versa. though my honest opinion is that the men sort of got the better end of the stick in that deal and that's probably cause the religion was made by men.. just like any other.

3. they don't eat pork, jews also don't eat pork, and there are plenty of arbitrary folk tales to explain why. it's not rational.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Why is your beliefs and practices so violent against non Muslims. Also why do you discriminate against women? Considering western culture and most of the world think how you treat women, they consider the men of Islam pigs, but you won't eat bacon because its unclean. Isn't the whole religion unclean as well.
So the religion is unclean because its scripture doesn't adhere to western cultural standards? Christianity too promotes violence and chauvinism, so how is that any different?

Originally posted by Astner
So the religion is unclean because its scripture doesn't adhere to western cultural standards? Christianity too promotes violence and chauvinism, so how is that any different?

I guess I see it differently as Christianity isn't still going around and beheading people like we are in mid evil times.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I guess I see it differently as Christianity isn't still going around and beheading people like we are in mid evil times.
Christianity has its fair share of extremists as well. The vast majority of Muslims live peaceful lives.

Originally posted by Astner
Christianity has its fair share of extremists as well. The vast majority of Muslims live peaceful lives.

Who was the latest well known extremist in Christianity? I can only think of David Koresh.

Originally posted by Astner
Christianity has its fair share of extremists as well. The vast majority of Muslims live peaceful lives.
Very true on both counts, however if you look at countries where the majority of the population identifies as devoutly Christian (i.e. much of Latin America and parts of Europe) and countries where the majority identifies as devoutly Muslim, you'll see that Muslim-majority nations tend to be more authoritarian and socially conservative.

Both the Bible and the Quran contain unsettling prescriptions for how a man should treat his wives and slaves, but the Quran devotes entire sections to this and whereas most Jewish and Christian communities have long since turned away from these teachings from the Torah/Bible, the most conservative teachings of the Quran are often still in full force.

For a while now I've come to believe that it's simply a matter of time. Christianity has had five centuries more time to mellow out than Islam has.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Who was the latest well known extremist in Christianity? I can only think of David Koresh.


You've never heard of the Westboro Baptist Church?

Originally posted by Lestov16
You've never heard of the Westboro Baptist Church?

The church with 39 members in some podunk town, yes. I have. Nothing those wackos have done compares to the damage radical Islam does and continues to do. Yes they are against homosexuals, but they don't kill and hang them like they do in Iran.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Why is your beliefs and practices so violent against non Muslims. Also why do you discriminate against women? Considering western culture and most of the world think how you treat women, they consider the men of Islam pigs, but you won't eat bacon because its unclean. Isn't the whole religion unclean as well.

Explain

I'm not sure we have any regular Muslims on the site anymore. Most of these are Google-able, and at least a couple of these are, at best, too generalized to be asked of every Muslim. And, at worst, horribly naive to the point of insulting prejudice. The first question alone presumes a violence that is only true of a small subset of an extremist minority. For the rest - the vast majority - the answer's going to be "it's not, and that's a horrible stereotype about our religion that breeds misunderstanding and violence." Or some variation thereof. And any response you make will be instantly invalid, because the line of questioning alone belies your lack of comprehensive understanding of the religion. The other questions fare no better when put to the merest of scrutiny.

So this is either trolling to stir up ire, or ignorant to the point of discriminatory bias. I'm no fan of religion - and Islam falls under that umbrella - but there's a wrong way to attempt to deconstruct something. And any right way has to include at least a modicum of respect and basic knowledge. Go do some Google research, or read a couple books on the subject.

Originally posted by Digi
I'm not sure we have any regular Muslims on the site anymore. Most of these are Google-able, and at least a couple of these are, at best, too generalized to be asked of every Muslim. And, at worst, horribly naive to the point of insulting prejudice. The first question alone presumes a violence that is only true of a small subset of an extremist minority. For the rest - the vast majority - the answer's going to be "it's not, and that's a horrible stereotype about our religion that breeds misunderstanding and violence." Or some variation thereof. And any response you make will be instantly invalid, because the line of questioning alone belies your lack of comprehensive understanding of the religion. The other questions fare no better when put to the merest of scrutiny.

So this is either trolling to stir up ire, or ignorant to the point of discriminatory bias. I'm no fan of religion - and Islam falls under that umbrella - but there's a wrong way to attempt to deconstruct something. And any right way has to include at least a modicum of respect and basic knowledge. Go do some Google research, or read a couple books on the subject.

I been to Afghanistan and Iraq, think I got the gist of it, nothing google or a few books can tell me that I have not experienced.

Originally posted by Digi
"horribly naive to the point of insulting prejudice"

"either trolling to stir up ire, or ignorant to the point of discriminatory bias" Sums up the OP perfectly. Nothing to add here.

Originally posted by SamZED
Sums up the OP perfectly. Nothing to add here.

Yes, the news is all lies and none of this is happening..

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Yes, the news is all lies and none of this is happening.. Because we all know that judging a group of over a billion people based on behavior of minority is what US is all about. While you're at it ask black people why they steal.

Originally posted by SamZED
Because we all know that judging a group of over a billion people based on behavior of minority is what US is all about. While you're at it ask black people why they steal.

Think beheading people is a little different then stealing.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Think beheading people is a little different then stealing. It was an analogy that works in this particular case.

Originally posted by SamZED
It was an analogy that works in this particular case.

Ok so why is radical islam say they are justified by Allah and the Koran to do what they do?

"radical islam" answers your question.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ok so why is radical islam say they are justified by Allah and the Koran to do what they do?

Several slave owners justified their ownership of other human beings with the Christian Bible....

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ok so why is radical islam say they are justified by Allah and the Koran to do what they do? I'm not defending religion. Just arguing the messed up generalization you've made in your OP. Which brings me back to one of the above mentioned..

Originally posted by Digi
"horribly naive to the point of insulting prejudice"
"either trolling to stir up ire, or ignorant to the point of discriminatory bias"

TI, some questions: Can you make the distinction between radical fundamentalism in a religion and the majority of its adherents? And if so, can you explain the differences between those two groups in Islam? Can you name analogous radical groups within other religions? Lastly, can you explain to me how treating all adherents of a religion the same, regardless of actions or sect, might be damaging to progress?

Originally posted by SamZED
I'm not defending religion. Just arguing the messed up generalization you've made in your OP. Which brings me back to one of the above mentioned..

Originally posted by Digi
"horribly naive to the point of insulting prejudice"
"either trolling to stir up ire, or ignorant to the point of discriminatory bias"

Funny people bash Christianity to the point of no return, but mention anything against Islam and everyone gets riled up. I find that hilarious.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Funny people bash Christianity to the point of no return, but mention anything against Islam and everyone gets riled up. I find that hilarious.

Don't make stupid arguments that aren't based in reality. I'd call you naive to the point of insulting prejudice if you made a dumb thread like this about any religion, not just Islam. Now answer my questions.

Anyway, Batman called. He wants a word with you:

http://i.imgur.com/go9eysa.jpg

We got a guy here that spams Muslim Extremist views, I want an answer from him.

Originally posted by juggerman
Several slave owners justified their ownership of other human beings with the Christian Bible....

The point of the thread was not Christianity vs Islam, read OP.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
We got a guy here that spams Muslim Extremist views, I want an answer from him.

Then talk to him. If he's a spammer, you're unlikely to get straight answers "approaching" him like this. How many people respond to "Your ideas are sh*tty. Explain them."?? Which is all this thread is.

Also, though you're ignoring my questions, the fact that you're invoking extremism suggests you do know the differences I asked about. You're just doing a sh*t job of showing it. Be smarter than this; I'd venture to say that, intellectually, you know you're painting with too broad a brush. Reflect that in your questioning.

Originally posted by Digi
Then talk to him. If he's a spammer, you're unlikely to get straight answers "approaching" him like this. How many people respond to "Your ideas are sh*tty. Explain them."?? Which is all this thread is.

Also, though you're ignoring my questions, the fact that you're invoking extremism suggests you do know the differences I asked about. You're just doing a sh*t job of showing it. Be smarter than this; I'd venture to say that, intellectually, you know you're painting with too broad a brush. Reflect that in your questioning.

Digi are you Muslim?

Originally posted by Digi

http://i.imgur.com/go9eysa.jpg

Batman's obviously a terrorist sympathizer

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Digi are you Muslim?

You know the answer to that, and this is horribly telegraphed. Show me you can have an adult conversation before I take your bait.

Originally posted by Digi
You know the answer to that, and this is horribly telegraphed. Show me you can have an adult conversation before I take your bait.

Then I have nothing to discuss with you. You must always be right and just try to keyboard domineer every conversation we ever had, doesn't work.

While I think the OP wasn't done correctly, I also can understand someone getting an embed idea based on a personal experience.

If TI didn't have good experiences with muslims it is expected that he might think in certain way.

Personally I have great experiences with muslims when we socialize doing business, but that is a complete different setting than interaction with muslims on a war scenario.

So it is understood that he has a point of view that might not be great especially taking into account that he did this interaction in a hostile environment, while We have done it in a friendly environment

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I been to Afghanistan and Iraq, think I got the gist of it, nothing google or a few books can tell me that I have not experienced.

Because Extremist factions within already war torn regions somehow are representative of every muslim all around the world, or even a majority.

I know full well some crazy stuff is in their holy book, but let's be real only an idiot looks at Isis and says that is how every one is and that is what every muslim is planning.

Answer my questions. Even one of them. Then I'll answer yours. That, again, you already know the answer to, so why ask it? Right, so you can, what, invalidate my opinion because I'm not a Muslim? There's a logical fallacy in there somewhere, though I forget the name.

At least answer Batman. I'm a nice guy, but clearly anyone who puts on a Bat suit and becomes a vigilante has a few screws loose. I don't want to see you hurt.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Because Extremist factions within already war torn regions somehow are representative of every muslim all around the world, or even a majority.

I know full well some crazy stuff is in their holy book, but let's be real only an idiot looks at Isis and says that is how every one is and that is what every muslim is planning.

I agree, but this has been going on long before ISIS.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I agree, but this has been going on long before ISIS.

My point wasn't Isis specifically it was any such group. Or do you really thing the majority of muslims are in terrorist factions? And behead people

Originally posted by Digi
Answer my questions. Even one of them. Then I'll answer yours. That, again, you already know the answer to, so why ask it? Right, so you can, what, invalidate my opinion because I'm not a Muslim? There's a logical fallacy in there somewhere, though I forget the name.

At least answer Batman. I'm a nice guy, but clearly anyone who puts on a Bat suit and becomes a vigilante has a few screws loose. I don't want to see you hurt.

Sure Digi.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
My point wasn't Isis specifically it was any such group. Or do you really thing the majority of muslims are in terrorist factions? And behead people

I do know that they have radical ideology even if they are not apart of a faction. They hide people that are radicals among themselves give them sanctuary, they treat women very bad and literally have zero respect for them.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I do know that they have radical ideology even if they are not apart of a faction. They hide people that are radicals among themselves give them sanctuary, they treat women very bad and literally have zero respect for them.

Go on tell me more about how you know anyone in my neighborhood and know what they are thinking about every subject, because you served in the army and are anything other then either a troll or a hate monger

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Go on tell me more about how you know anyone in my neighborhood and know what they are thinking about every subject, because you served in the army and are anything other then either a troll or a hate monger

I'm literally not trolling or hating, I'm wanting to know why they treat women bad and why the radicals want to kill everyone.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I'm literally not trolling or hating, I'm wanting to know why they treat women bad and why the radicals want to kill everyone.

So are you going to tell me how you somehow know how people in my neighborhood behave and what they want to do?

How you know all the thoughts of say the population of Indonesia and the nuances of their culture?

How you know what even the people in those two nations you fought in would do if the radicals didn't have such a powerful presence there.


No one dies that muslim communities in parts of the world have problems but there is a difference discussing that and just being an idiot/bigot who wants to think anyone connected is exactly the same.

Lol, what an absolute child. Even before he decided to play the "yuh-huh, nuh-uh" game with me, not a single line I wrote was addressed. The unfortunate part is, this mentality is a big part of the problem with religious relations in the world. Lack of education is one thing; but that's not what this is. We all have access to the benefits of an advanced civilization. Yet many people are still going to approach Islam, ALL of it, with an antagonistic attitude.

Problem is, there ARE issues that need addressing in regards to Islamic relations and understanding. And, frankly, there are problems with the religion (though I level that accusation at pretty much every religion), though mostly in the radical factions. But that's not what this is an inspection of.

It doesn't matter if we get pissy at each other, TI. It's just the internet. The point is, you're never going to do anything but create defensive antagonism toward yourself with your broad negative assumptions that are only true of some people. If you really want to get answers to these things, as you say you do, and aren't just trolling, you will have to approach adherents of religion with more dignity. And if not, please just take video of the first time you ask these questions of a Muslim irl. I think I speak for the entire internet when I say I'd love to see how it goes.

Originally posted by Digi
Lol, what an absolute child. Even before he decided to play the "yuh-huh, nuh-uh" game with me, not a single line I wrote was addressed. The unfortunate part is, this mentality is a big part of the problem with religious relations in the world. Lack of education is one thing; but that's not what this is. We all have access to the benefits of an advanced civilization. Yet many people are still going to approach Islam, ALL of it, with an antagonistic attitude.

Problem is, there ARE issues that need addressing in regards to Islamic relations and understanding. And, frankly, there are problems with the religion (though I level that accusation at pretty much every religion), though mostly in the radical factions. But that's not what this is an inspection of.

It doesn't matter if we get pissy at each other, TI. It's just the internet. The point is, you're never going to do anything but create defensive antagonism toward yourself with your broad negative assumptions that are only true of some people. If you really want to get answers to these things, as you say you do, and aren't just trolling, you will have to approach adherents of religion with more dignity. And if not, please just take video of the first time you ask these questions of a Muslim irl. I think I speak for the entire internet when I say I'd love to see how it goes.

Go on?

Stop copying me.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
So are you going to tell me how you somehow know how people in my neighborhood behave and what they want to do?

How you know all the thoughts of say the population of Indonesia and the nuances of their culture?

How you know what even the people in those two nations you fought in would do if the radicals didn't have such a powerful presence there.


No one dies that muslim communities in parts of the world have problems but there is a difference discussing that and just being an idiot/bigot who wants to think anyone connected is exactly the same.


Actually I have been to Indonesia, Bali in fact, very peaceful people. None violent not radical.

What I find hypocritical is all the people complaining about Time Immemorial over generalizing, while they over generalize about religious and conservative people. Defiantly a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What I find hypocritical is all the people complaining about Time Immemorial over generalizing, while they over generalize about religious and conservative people. Defiantly a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Yup this place is full of hypocrites.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Go on?

Ha, nah, that post wasn't for you. You've sunk to base-level trolling now. It's amusing, if unfortunate. Amusing because it's pointless. Unfortunate because your inability to take criticism, engage others on their ideas and rebuttals, has and will doom your interactions, both on this site and elsewhere.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What I find hypocritical is all the people complaining about Time Immemorial over generalizing, while they over generalize about religious and conservative people. Defiantly a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Interesting. In what ways specifically? I want to hear from you on this, not TI.

Originally posted by Digi
Ha, nah, that post wasn't for you. You've sunk to base-level trolling now. It's amusing, if unfortunate. Amusing because it's pointless. Unfortunate because your inability to take criticism, engage others on their ideas and rebuttals, has and will doom your interactions, both on this site and elsewhere.



Interesting. In what ways specifically? I want to hear from you on this, not TI.

Digi you have not even been out of the country, to any Islamic States, what would you know about anything...ur just mad to be mad at me, get off.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Funny people bash Christianity to the point of no return, but mention anything against Islam and everyone gets riled up. I find that hilarious.
People bash Islam as much as they bash Christianity if not more. Because much like Christianity it's a flawed religion. That's not what your OP was about. You made a generalized accusation towards a large group of people based on actions of a much smaller group which is no different than the stealing example i've mentioned. It's one thing to point out stupid things in religious scriptures or call out radicals and a whole different thing when it's an excuse for the old boring blind hatred towards a large specific group of people. Religious, ethnic etc.

Originally posted by SamZED
People bash Islam as much as they bash Christianity if not more. Because much like Christianity it's a flawed religion. That's not what your OP was about. You made a generalized accusation towards a large group of people based on actions of a much smaller group which is no different than the stealing example i've mentioned. It's one thing to point out stupid things in religious scriptures or call out radicals and a whole different thing when it's an excuse for the old boring blind hatred towards a large specific group of people. Religious, ethnic etc.

I find that the smaller group of radicals is more radical then any smaller group of radical christians today...yes? Violence, death, destruction, beheadings, sexual mutilations.

Originally posted by Digi
..Interesting. In what ways specifically? I want to hear from you on this, not TI.

Originally posted by Digi
Your particular sect of Buddhism seems abnormally rational in its approach, even for an overarching religion (Buddhism in general) that tends to eschew blind faith as a valid reason...

You are the one who couldn't resist insulting my religion while complementing me. That shows your over generalization and prejudice toward religion.

BTW you are wrong.

You are such a hypocrite.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I do know that they have radical ideology even if they are not apart of a faction. They hide people that are radicals among themselves give them sanctuary, they treat women very bad and literally have zero respect for them. I especially like the word "literally" in this yet another baseless generalized claim. It's funny because I personally know dozens of Muslim families. At no point did any of the husbands attempt to behead his wife or treated her with disrespect. No more than your average western couple.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Actually I have been to Indonesia, Bali in fact, very peaceful people. None violent not radical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Indonesia

Radicals... radicals everywhere!

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I find that the smaller group of radicals is more radical then any smaller group of radical christians today...yes? Violence, death, destruction, beheadings, sexual mutilations. You can address that question to Batman on the previous page. I swear at this point you might as well be running down the street screaming "I hate rag-heads", at least that'd be honest.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are the one who couldn't resist insulting my religion while complementing me. That shows your over generalization and prejudice toward religion.

BTW you are wrong.

You are such a hypocrite. That should be "complimenting". Unless you're saying Digi completes you. In that case, I wish you both the best.

Originally posted by SamZED
You can address that question to Batman on the previous page. I swear at this point you might as well be running down the street screaming "I hate rag-heads", at least that'd be honest.

Nah not really, my gf is Muslim. You been owned.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Nah not really, my gf is Muslim. You been owned. Sounds as convincing as when Putin pulled out the infamous "I have friends who are gay" card.

George Bush, when he declared war on Iraq, claimed it was a mission from God. It's one man, yes, but with more power than anyone in the world and with the backing millions of people. No one batted an eyelash when he declared it. It was radical religious thinking from the most powerful government in the world, a government supposedly removed from religious influence; and it ended in the deaths of thousands. I'd say religious radicalism is much more entrenched than we realize in Christianity.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Digi you have not even been out of the country, to any Islamic States, what would you know about anything...

I know that a common tactic in Ticket to Ride is to amass large amounts of cards before playing any of your trains. Then play a bunch of trains in successive turns, so as not to give your opponents a chance to counter or block your plans. It's risky sometimes, but used by a lot of top players.

I can't answer this accusation, because the answer wouldn't satisfy you. You have to recognize the flaw in your thinking for it to take root. I'll give you a nudge, though: ...something something, ad hominem, something something, address the points, not the person, something something, the plural of anecdote is not data, something something, personal experience can often bias us in ways that make us unable to consider other opinions, etc. etc...

Ok, a bit more than a nudge. My bad.

Originally posted by SamZED
Sounds as convincing as when Putin pulled out the infamous "I have friends who are gay" card.

Originally posted by SamZED
Sounds as convincing as when Putin pulled out the infamous "I have friends who are gay" card.

Well she is Russian as well, so I get that card too.

You been owned again.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Nah not really, my gf is Muslim. You been owned.



Really? Reeaaallly?!

Do you ask her why she practices an unclean religion?

Originally posted by Digi
George Bush, when he declared war on Iraq, claimed it was a mission from God. It's one man, yes, but with more power than anyone in the world and with the backing millions of people. No one batted an eyelash when he declared it. It was radical religious thinking from the most powerful government in the world, a government supposedly removed from religious influence; and it ended in the deaths of thousands. I'd say religious radicalism is much more entrenched than we realize in Christianity.



I know that a common tactic in Ticket to Ride is to amass large amounts of cards before playing any of your trains. Then play a bunch of trains in successive turns, so as not to give your opponents a chance to counter or block your plans. It's risky sometimes, but used by a lot of top players.

I can't answer this accusation, because the answer wouldn't satisfy you. You have to recognize the flaw in your thinking for it to take root. I'll give you a nudge, though: ...something something, ad hominem, something something, address the points, not the person, something something, the plural of anecdote is not data, something something, personal experience can often bias us in ways that make us unable to consider other opinions, etc. etc...

Ok, a bit more than a nudge. My bad.

More keyboard domineering with nothing of substance which shows complete immaturity and lack of experience therefore your keyboard bravado skills must increase over 9000.

Originally posted by Digi


Really? Reeaaallly?!

Do you ask her why she practices an unclean religion?

And you said I trolling, look at you a trolling mod.

Non practicing, you been owned.

You all scrambling like ants cause I destroyed all you hypocrites. You stuck of for something that is violent, detestable and down right wrong.

I accept all your concessions.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Well she is Russian as well, so I get that card too.

You been owned again. She is also imaginary, but at least now I see why you're upset.

Originally posted by Digi
George Bush, when he declared war on Iraq, claimed it was a mission from God. It's one man, yes, but with more power than anyone in the world and with the backing millions of people. No one batted an eyelash when he declared it. It was radical religious thinking from the most powerful government in the world, a government supposedly removed from religious influence; and it ended in the deaths of thousands. I'd say religious radicalism is much more entrenched than we realize in Christianity.

Now you are distorting history. I don't believe you, and I think this is a good example of religious radicalism (atheistic radicalism).

Originally posted by SamZED
She is also imaginary, but at least now I see why you're upset.

I see why you upset cause I destroyed you. And sorry she not imaginary do you want pics or should I have DDM or someone come vouch?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Now you are distorting history. I don't believe you, and I think this is a good example of religious radicalism (atheistic radicalism).

Digi lies about pretty much everything.

Originally posted by SamZED
She is also imaginary, but at least now I see why you're upset.

He has a girlfriend. And she's hot.


That or he has paid some gal who is attractive, classy, and acts romantic with him in photos...and allows him to name drop her on Facebook.

Thanks DDM, and I accept all you hypocrites concessions.

Been trying my hardest to stay out of this conversation, but on the Bush quotes exchange:

"I am driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job."

" I believe there's an Almighty, and I believe the Almighty's great gift to each man and woman in this world is the desire to be free. This isn't America's gift to the world, it is a universal gift to the world, and people want to be free."

However, in Dubya's defense, he also said this:

"I tell people all the time, you're equally American if you're a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. You're equally American if you believe in an Almighty or don't believe in an Almighty. That's a sacred freedom."

All of the above quotes can be found, verbatim, with a quick Google search. So no, Shakya, Digi actually isn't lying on this one, and it's not "Atheistic Radicalism".

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are the one who couldn't resist insulting my religion while complementing me. That shows your over generalization and prejudice toward religion.

BTW you are wrong.

You are such a hypocrite.

Ah. Ok. That line was never meant as an insult. Only a compliment. You're more rational than what I have experienced with Buddhism in general. I may be wrong, but I wasn't trying to denigrate a religion in that comment. Buddhism has a lot to like, even if I don't agree with every belief of every Buddhist. Dudemon is another I'd say this about. He's Mormon, which I disagree with, but his nuanced worldview is much more intellectually rational. I have a hard time disagreeing with him on much...same with you. It was perhaps a poor phrase, but not intended as a statement on Buddhism.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Now you are distorting history. I don't believe you, and I think this is a good example of religious radicalism (atheistic radicalism).

Not intentionally, at least. This happened, unless every source I've read about it is wrong. Bush was fond of invoking God's Will during his candidacy and presidency. This was just one of the biggest examples of it.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I see why you upset cause I destroyed you. And sorry she not imaginary do you want pics or should I have DDM or someone come vouch?
You might not know this but you need to actually make an argument in order to destroy someone in a debate. Baseless statements do not get any credibility just because you've used a word "literally".
All you did was prove that you're a bigot, the kind most of the world you've mentioned in the OP and western culture in particular looks down upon with disgust, you're basically a little kid who's been bullied at school by an Asian guy and grew up hating all the Asians as a result. Blindly, stubbornly and with passion.

Originally posted by Digi
Ah. Ok. That line was never meant as an insult. Only a compliment. You're more rational than what I have experienced with Buddhism in general. I may be wrong, but I wasn't trying to denigrate a religion in that comment. Dudemon is another I'd say this about. He's Mormon, which I disagree with, but his nuanced worldview is much more intellectually rational. It was perhaps a poor phrase, but not intended as a statement on Buddhism.



Not intentionally, at least. This happened, unless every source I've read about it is wrong. Bush was fond of invoking God's Will during his candidacy and presidency. This was just one of the biggest examples of it.

Backpedalling.

Originally posted by SamZED
You might not know this but you need to actually make an argument in order to destroy someone in a debate. Baseless statements do not get any credibility just because you've used a word "literally".
All you did was prove that you're a bigot, the kind most of the world you've mentioned in the OP and western culture in particular looks down upon with disgust, you're basically a little kid who's been bullied at school by an Asian guy and grew up hating all the Asians as a result. Blindly, stubbornly and with passion.

I destroyed you whole debate and you came up with nothing but saying I didn't have a gf and when you got owned on that, you ran and back to this. I accept your concession, you lost.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Been trying my hardest to stay out of this conversation, but on the Bush quotes exchange:

"I am driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job."

" I believe there's an Almighty, and I believe the Almighty's great gift to each man and woman in this world is the desire to be free. This isn't America's gift to the world, it is a universal gift to the world, and people want to be free."

However, in Dubya's defense, however, he also said this:

"I tell people all the time, you're equally American if you're a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. You're equally American if you believe in an Almighty or don't believe in an Almighty. That's a sacred freedom."

All of the above quotes can be found, verbatim, with a quick Google search. So no, Shakya, Digi actually isn't lying on this one, and it's not "Atheistic Radicalism".

People can have their own opinion, but those are not official governmental statements. People take things out of context, and represent them as something they are not. Are you stating that a president cannot be religious and say things accidentally? Find me an official government document that states that the war in Iraq was a mission from God. Otherwise it was just a person's opinion and is not a reflection of the government of the US.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Backpedalling.

I'm talking with Shakya and attempting to clear up a misconception. He and I are discussing ideas. Even if he's calling me a hypocrite, I'm ok with that, because we're responding to one another's points and posts. You're busy PMing me to insult me about my job situation.

Originally posted by Digi
I'm talking with Shakya and attempting to clear up a misconception. He and I are discussing ideas. Even if he's calling me a hypocrite, I'm ok with that, because we're responding to one another's points and posts. You're busy PMing me to insult me about my job situation.

You to busy insulting Mormons and Buddism and defending Islamic Radicals to think clearly.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I destroyed you whole debate and you came up with nothing but saying I didn't have a gf and when you got owned on that, you ran and back to this. I accept your concession, you lost. You're the one who brought her up instead of being an adult and addressing any of my points about you making baseless generalized statements about a billion + people. If anyone's running it's you, you've been trying to change the subject ever since I called you on your bs. So far you're doing a great job of owning yourself, I'm just helping a little. I never conceded but whatever helps you better sleep at night.

Originally posted by SamZED
You're the one who brought her up instead of being an adult and addressing any of my points about you making baseless generalized statements about a billion + people. If anyone's running it's you, you've been trying to change the subject ever since I called you on your bs. So far you're going a great job of owning yourself, I'm just helping a little. I never conceded but whatever helps you better sleep at night.

I clarified and said radicals, but you to stupid to understand what clarification means. And how did I change the subject, quit lying. You got bested.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Been trying my hardest to stay out of this conversation, but on the Bush quotes exchange:

"I am driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job."

" I believe there's an Almighty, and I believe the Almighty's great gift to each man and woman in this world is the desire to be free. This isn't America's gift to the world, it is a universal gift to the world, and people want to be free."

However, in Dubya's defense, he also said this:

"I tell people all the time, you're equally American if you're a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. You're equally American if you believe in an Almighty or don't believe in an Almighty. That's a sacred freedom."

All of the above quotes can be found, verbatim, with a quick Google search. So no, Shakya, Digi actually isn't lying on this one, and it's not "Atheistic Radicalism".

I like the fact that Bush stood up for what he believes and that USA was founded on "One Nation Under God" and "In God we Trust"

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I clarified and said radicals, but you to stupid to understand what clarification means. And how did I change the subject, quit lying. You got bested.
You didn't clarify jack, you made a generalized statement and I called you on your bs. So instead of admitting that you were wrong you started talking about the difference between "beheading" and "stealing" as if you're too stupid to understand the analogy. So yes, changing the subject. If you really wanted to clarify that you're not talking about Muslims in general but only radicals you would've done it the second I've mentioned "over a billion people" on the first page. You didn't. What you actually did is called..

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Backpedalling.

there's a difference.

Originally posted by Digi
You're more rational than what I have experienced with Buddhism in general. I may be wrong, but I wasn't trying to denigrate a religion in that comment. Buddhism has a lot to like, even if I don't agree with every belief of every Buddhist.

Yup. Shakya is good dude. I like him and almost all of his world views.


Originally posted by Digi
Dudemon is another I'd say this about. He's Mormon, which I disagree with, but his nuanced worldview is much more intellectually rational. I have a hard time disagreeing with him on much...same with you. It was perhaps a poor phrase, but not intended as a statement on Buddhism.

blushing

Originally posted by Digi
Ah. Ok. That line was never meant as an insult. Only a compliment. You're more rational than what I have experienced with Buddhism in general. I may be wrong, but I wasn't trying to denigrate a religion in that comment. Buddhism has a lot to like, even if I don't agree with every belief of every Buddhist. Dudemon is another I'd say this about. He's Mormon, which I disagree with, but his nuanced worldview is much more intellectually rational. I have a hard time disagreeing with him on much...same with you. It was perhaps a poor phrase, but not intended as a statement on Buddhism.

I wasn't offended. I'm just pointing out your own "demons".

Originally posted by Digi
Not intentionally, at least. This happened, unless every source I've read about it is wrong. Bush was fond of invoking God's Will during his candidacy and presidency. This was just one of the biggest examples of it.

But that wasn't the government's opinion on the war. It was just Bush's opinion. You made it sound like it was the official government opinion. I'm just pointing out that your own religious prejudice keeps you from seeing the difference.

We can all be blinded by our prejudices and be hypocritical.

BTW Time Immemorial, the fact that I pointed out that everyone else maybe hypocrites doesn't exclude you. This is a disgusting thread. I suggest you put more thought into your questions.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
People can have their own opinion, but those are not official governmental statements. People take things out of context, and represent them as something they are not. Are you stating that a president cannot be religious and say things accidentally? Find me an official government document that states that the war in Iraq was a mission from God. Otherwise it was just a person's opinion and is not a reflection of the government of the US.

I'm providing quotes to demonstrate that Bush did say that his actions were inspired by God. His own words. There's also quotes from various Senators and Representatives along the same lines who all voted in the affirmative to support the war. Yes, people can have their own opinions and Religious views. And people can also act upon those opinions, as well as make those opinions the basis for their political positions (pro-life and same sex marriage, for other contemporary examples), as their 'faith' informs their values and positions. I think there's a direct correlation between George Bush's statements of faith and 'doing God's mission' (paraphrasing) by wanting to bring democracy and freedom to Iraq and peace to the Middle East, and the policies he enacted there; just as there is a correlation between the various Senators and Representatives who oppose abortions and same sex marriage and the religious values they regularly espouse, including actual statements on their positions regarding the referendums being informed by their religious views. If there is a vote of 50 Senators and 28 of them are stating that their 'Christian Values' are informing their position on same sex marriage, I think that actually is a reflection of the government of the United States because these individuals actually compose the government. Not to mention Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who would require a thread all unto himself to unpack his statements and judgments regarding the separation of church and state .

So no, I don't believe our political officials act under purely secular intentions, whether they include the religious wording in their official war declaration document or not is a bit of a red herring as it's the views that informed the vote that matter, not the final wording of the document. Just like the DOMA didn't include the term "God" or the phrase "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve".

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I like the fact that Bush stood up for what he believes and that USA was founded on "One Nation Under God" and "In God we Trust"

That actually can be commendable, yes. There are two sides of the sword occasionally, because we live in a diverse religious population, but standing up for one's convictions, in and of itself, can be good. But Delph's words were to corroborate something that you said was a lie. It was not.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You to busy insulting Mormons and Buddism and defending Islamic Radicals to think clearly.

I hope violent Islamic extremists die horribly, in the manner in which they tortured and killed their victims. What exactly do you think I've been saying this whole time?

DDM and I get along. Shakya and I do as well, small exceptions aside. I can say I disagree with Mormonism/Buddhism and it's no big deal.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I wasn't offended. I'm just pointing out your own "demons".

Ok, cool. I do think you're reading too much into it, but point taken.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But that wasn't the government's opinion on the war. It was just Bush's opinion. You made it sound like it was the official government opinion. I'm just pointing out that your own religious prejudice keeps you from seeing the difference.

We can all be blinded by our prejudices and be hypocritical.

BTW Time Immemorial, the fact that I pointed out that everyone else maybe hypocrites doesn't exclude you. This is a disgusting thread. I suggest you put more thought into your questions.

"The government" is nebulous. Bush was its leader. I agree that the US government doesn't espouse that thinking, but when its President is acting in a manner that bridges democracy with theocracy, I don't care which religion it is, or what the official documents say, I'm concerned.

Originally posted by Lestov16
You've never heard of the Westboro Baptist Church?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
The church with 39 members in some podunk town, yes. I have. Nothing those wackos have done compares to the damage radical Islam does and continues to do. Yes they are against homosexuals, but they don't kill and hang them like they do in Iran.


I thought I replied to this, already...but I didn't..


Regardless, the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), while extreme, is very very careful about how they do their radical bullshit. They hold up signs and say disgusting things. They make sure they follow all legal considerations, perfectly. They most certainly do not bomb abortion clinics, make their followers swallow poison, play with poisonous snakes, suicide bomb, shoot people with guns, etc.


They do not compare to radical jihadist Muslims, imo. There are other Christians or people strongly influenced by Christianity that do some stuff similar to those radical Muslims. The WBC is not one of them. There are several Christian militias on some closely monitored watch-lists that could do some of the shit that Muslims do. Yeah, those types are getting close to that edge with threats of violence and the stockpiling of weapons to wage war.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I'm providing quotes to demonstrate that Bush did say that his actions were inspired by God. His own words. There's also quotes from various Senators and Representatives along the same lines who all voted in the affirmative to support the war. Yes, people can have their own opinions and Religious views. And people can also act upon those opinions, as well as make those opinions the basis for their political positions (pro-life and same sex marriage, for other contemporary examples), as their 'faith' informs their values and positions. I think there's a direct correlation between George Bush's statements of faith and 'doing God's mission' (paraphrasing) by wanting to bring democracy and freedom to Iraq and peace to the Middle East, and the policies he enacted there; just as there is a correlation between the various Senators and Representatives who oppose abortions and same sex marriage and the religious values they regularly espouse, including actual statements on their positions regarding the referendums being informed by their religious views. If there is a vote of 50 Senators and 28 of them are stating that their 'Christian Values' are informing their position on same sex marriage, I think that actually is a reflection of the government of the United States because these individuals actually compose the government. Not to mention Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who would require a thread all unto himself to unpack his statements and judgments regarding the separation of church and state .

So no, I don't believe our political officials act under purely secular intentions, whether they include the religious wording in their official war declaration document or not is a bit of a red herring as it's the views that informed the vote that matter, not the final wording of the document. Just like the DOMA didn't include the term "God" or the phrase "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve".

That's not the point. I was responding to what Digi said. I'm not interested beyond that.

Originally posted by Digi
You're busy PMing me to insult me about my job situation.



Classic

Originally posted by SamZED
You didn't clarify jack, you made a generalized statement and I called you on your bs. So instead of admitting that you were wrong you started talking about the difference between "beheading" and "stealing" as if you're too stupid to understand the analogy. So yes, changing the subject. If you really wanted to clarify that you're not talking about Muslims in general but only radicals you would've done it the second I've mentioned "over a billion people" on the first page. You didn't. What you actually did is called..



there's a difference.

You obviously are butt hurt about a religion you don't even partake in. If you read the OP you could specifically see I was talking about radicals, be mad bro, be real mad

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I like the fact that Bush stood up for what he believes and that USA was founded on "One Nation Under God" and "In God we Trust"

One Nation Under God = 1892

In God We Trust = 1812

United States of America founded = 1776

All taken from wiki. You're welcome.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I thought I replied to this, already...but I didn't..


Regardless, the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), while extreme, is very very careful about how they do their radical bullshit. They hold up signs and say disgusting things. They make sure they follow all legal considerations, perfectly. They most certainly do not bomb abortion clinics, make their followers swallow poison, play with poisonous snakes, suicide bomb, shoot people with guns, etc.


They do not compare to radical jihadist Muslims, imo. There are other Christians or people strongly influenced by Christianity that do some stuff similar to those radical Muslims. The WBC is not one of them. There are several Christian militias on some closely monitored watch-lists that could do some of the shit that Muslims do. Yeah, those types are getting close to that edge with threats of violence and the stockpiling of weapons to wage war.

Lest was just posting some off the wall small crazy church group and trying to childishly compare them to radical muslims.

I think the best comparison between Islamic Jihadists and a radical Christian sect would be the Ku Klux Klan.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think the best comparison between Islamic Jihadists and a radical Christian sect would be the Ku Klux Klan.

Thats a good comparison. I think they call themselves Christians however they are not Christians.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Thats a good comparison. I think they call themselves Christians however they are not Christians.

Same can then be said about Islamic radicals. eg ISIS = no real Muslims. /progress

The Klan are/were Christians, they were simply denounced by other Christians in more contemporary times for being extremists, but they were very active nationally here in the states in the 1800s and first half of the 20th Century. They're just a fringe now. Similar to 'moderate' Muslims who denounce the more orthodox or extreme/jihadists. I think the primary difference between Western Christians and Muslims is that Christianity experienced The Renaissance, The Reformation, and The Enlightenment movements where more secular views were mixed into the public consciousness and the interpretation of the doctrine in various denominations. Also the Catholic Orthodoxy losing a stranglehold on the interpretation of doctrine for the masses and the splintering of Christendom. We still see that today with the softening on positions regarding homosexuality and science in various denominations where others are more opposed citing doctrine. The Religious views adapt to the society, for the most part, rather than the opposite. Some denominations are far more orthodox and repressive, rejecting modern influences and sticking to a very strict and literal interpretation of the Bible (like still having women cover their heads with scarves or bandanas when reading the Bible with their children or praying, for an odd example of this), whereas other denominations stick primarily to using a very liberal interpretation of the New Testament/Jesus and essentially truncating the Old Testament from the narrative, save for a few passages, due to the horrible stories depicted in the text. If Christians stuck to a more literal interpretation of the Bible and adhered to the passages which state that Yahweh/Jehovah is unchanging and his laws are eternal, as well as Jesus stating that he didn't come to do away with the law but to fulfill it, Western Society could possibly also be an assemblage of theocracies still living under varying degrees of enforcement of Levitical Law.

Thankfully that's not the case.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
The Klan are/were Christians, they were simply denounced by other Christians in more contemporary times for being extremists, but they were very active nationally here in the states in the 1800s and first half of the 20th Century. They're just a fringe now. Similar to 'moderate' Muslims who denounce the more orthodox or extreme/jihadists. I think the primary difference between Western Christians and Muslims is that Christianity experienced The Renaissance, The Reformation, and The Enlightenment movements where more secular views were mixed into the public consciousness and the interpretation of the doctrine in various denominations. Also the Catholic Orthodoxy losing a stranglehold on the interpretation of doctrine for the masses and the splintering of Christendom. We still see that today with the softening on positions regarding homosexuality and science in various denominations where others are more opposed citing doctrine. The Religious views adapt to the society, for the most part, rather than the opposite. Some denominations are far more orthodox and repressive, rejecting modern influences and sticking to a very strict and literal interpretation of the Bible (like still having women cover their heads with scarves or bandanas when reading the Bible with their children or praying, for an odd example of this), whereas other denominations stick primarily to using a very liberal interpretation of the New Testament/Jesus and essentially truncating the Old Testament from the narrative, save for a few passages, due to the horrible stories depicted in the text. If Christians stuck to a more literal interpretation of the Bible and adhered to the passages which state that Yahweh/Jehovah is unchanging and his laws are eternal, as well as Jesus stating that he didn't come to do away with the law but to fulfill it, Western Society could possibly also be an assemblage of theocracies still living under varying degrees of enforcement of Levitical Law.

Thankfully that's not the case.

Good post

Originally posted by Robtard
Same can then be said about Islamic radicals. eg ISIS = no real Muslims. /progress

I love how you follow me around the board like you imply that quan follows you around, its amusing.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I love how you follow me around the board like you imply that quan follows you around, its amusing.

To be fair, I posted in the Religion forum before you did. But who's keeping score.

Originally posted by Robtard
To be fair, I posted in the Religion forum before you did. But who's keeping score.

Irrelevant and spinning the statement.

While Digi posted an image of this debate earlier in this thread, the whole thing is worth watching and is topical to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XduMMteTEbc

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Irrelevant and spinning the statement.

Disagree

Originally posted by Robtard
Disagree

Matters little. Its fact.

Extremists always scream with the loudest voices because they are usually in the minority. I don't know the exact percentage of the billion+ Muslims who believe in violence to all infidels, but it's not a majority. Most of these people live meager lives and just want to be left alone to practice their faith in peace. Unfortunately their religion is be using to perform barbaric acts of violence.

As far as the comparison to extreme Christians to extreme Muslims, I can't remember the last time extreme Christians killed thousands of people, beheaded innocent people, took over sections of a country with violence or kept women from voting, driving, etc. I know the most recent large movement was the IRA. But I believe that has all but stopped. Then there was the Crusades and Inquisition centuries ago. If there has been anything large scale more recently I'd be curious to know about it.

Christians make up several sects like Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, Greek Orthodox, Evangelicals, Mormons, Lutherans, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. There are some fringe sects and people but they hardly represent most mainstream Christians.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Matters little. Its fact.

Link?

Originally posted by Badabing
Extremists always scream with the loudest voices because they are usually in the minority. I don't know the exact percentage of the billion+ Muslims who believe in violence to all infidels, but it's not a majority. Most of these people live meager lives and just want to be left alone to practice their faith in peace. Unfortunately their religion is be using to perform barbaric acts of violence.

As far as the comparison to extreme Christians to extreme Muslims, I can't remember the last time extreme Christians killed thousands of people, beheaded innocent people, took over sections of a country with violence or kept women from voting, driving, etc. I know the most recent large movement was the IRA. But I believe that has all but stopped. Then there was the Crusades and Inquisition centuries ago. If there has been anything large scale more recently I'd be curious to know about it.

Christians make up several sects like Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, Greek Orthodox, Evangelicals, Mormons, Lutherans, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. There are some fringe sects and people but they hardly represent most mainstream Christians.

Extremely on point and accurate cutting right through the bullshit. I'd like to see someone refute this.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Extremely on point and accurate cutting right through the bullshit. I'd like to see someone refute this. Oh, is the topic now: who has the more extreme extremist?

Because initially it was about Islam in general:

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Why is your beliefs and practices so violent against non Muslims. Also why do you discriminate against women? Considering western culture and most of the world think how you treat women, they consider the men of Islam pigs, but you won't eat bacon because its unclean. Isn't the whole religion unclean as well.

Explain

Originally posted by BackFire
While Digi posted an image of this debate earlier in this thread, the whole thing is worth watching and is topical to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XduMMteTEbc



I actually think Affleck doesn't understand Harris's point well enough. He was a bit too combative in regard to religious criticism. But yes, the whole thing is very relevant.

He also inadvertently proved Harris' point at the beginning. Harris made perfectly reasonable criticisms regarding Islamic beliefs and said that people should be free to criticize without being labeled as racist, and Affleck, who I think wasn't even listening, essentially just started screaming "you're racist!". I guess that's why Affleck is a movie star and not a scholar.

Originally posted by BackFire
He also inadvertently proved Harris' point at the beginning. Harris made perfectly reasonable criticisms regarding Islamic beliefs and said that people should be free to criticize without being labeled as racist, and Affleck, who I think wasn't even listening, essentially just started screaming "you're racist!". I guess that's why Affleck is a movie star and not a scholar.

I posted a similar opinion on another site. I think Affleck's problem was he got too angry. I agreed with what he was trying to say. He just couldn't say it without getting furious. It's true: hundreds of millions of Muslims are peaceful people who would never condone the actions of some of the more extreme. Just because some countries with lots of Muslims who are at war or just recently at war hold stupid opinions, does not mean they represent the other hundreds of millions of Muslims.

Also, did Islam make them like that or are they like that for other reasons and Islam is used as an excuse?

Lemme give you another example: Mormonism is fraught with self-righteous judgementalism. It is infuriating. Our religion actually teaches us, officially, to do the exact opposite. That doesn't stop tons of Mormons from persecuting homosexuals and ostracizing them.

Basically, to argue against Harris, because I'm clearly better at it than Affleck:

http://www.fair.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/civiliansindividuals.gif


Would you look at that: Muslims are the least militaristically violent group.

Second, but a distant second are your Mormons. I'm actually shocked. Mormons supported Bush, in general.




Also, if we REALLY REALLY want to argue against Harris' position, Gallop conducted a ridiculously awesome poll and in the poll, they conclude that the radicals comprise about 7% of their group. That's quite a bit and considerably more than probably any other religion in the world, imo.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/104941/what-makes-radical.aspxGallup.com,

A majority did not support the 9-11 attacks, which is important. That's a majority: hundreds of millions of Muslims.


I think that last link, everyone should read. It shows you that, yes, Muslims are pretty damn violent compared to other religious groups. But it also shows you that they are not all horrible violent beasts.


Edit - Also, if Ben would have done just about 2 minutes of research before going onto that show, he would have been able to hand Harris' ass to him. Instead, he just got b*tchy.

Were you born this smart DDM, or was it a gift from God when you hit puberty

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Actually I have been to Indonesia, Bali in fact, very peaceful people. None violent not radical. \
Bali is the Hindu part.

Maybe 10% of Balians are Muslim, if even that.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
but you won't eat bacon because its unclean. Isn't the whole religion unclean as well.

Explain

Bible tells us not to eat pork:
http://www.openbible.info/topics/eating_pork
We still eat pork. Is our religion unclean then?
Explain

Originally posted by Omega Vision
\
Bali is the Hindu part.

Maybe 10% of Balians are Muslim, if even that.

True, but they still have had issues with radical islam and terrorists.

Originally posted by konfetka
Bible tells us not to eat pork:
http://www.openbible.info/topics/eating_pork
We still eat pork. Is our religion unclean then?
Explain

Stop eating pork right now! More bacon for me.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Stop eating pork right now! More bacon for me.

More fat for you any time

Originally posted by konfetka
More fat for you any time

Bacon on everything.

My religion doesn't tell me what to eat; it tells me to take responsibility for what I eat.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison


My religion doesn't tell me what to eat; it tells me to take responsibility for what I eat.
Some people here prefer to call others names while deceiving selves and closing eyes on their own religion. Do not judge, and you will not be judged.
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your own attitude about the problem.

Originally posted by konfetka
Some people here prefer to call others names while deceiving selves and closing eyes on their own religion. Do not judge, and you will not be judged.
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your own attitude about the problem.

"The problem is not the problem." this is just double talk. And I don't have an attitude about a problem because I have no idea what you are talking about.

Is more bacon for me, judging?

I think maybe you are just drunk, or something.

Its sad the humor on the bacon part of the OP was missed after that huge bacon thread Enin made...clearly this place needs a whoopie cushion.

Bacon warning..

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f80/t592809.html

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f80/t592809.html

It was an extremely xenophobic and inappropriate joke. Your whole initial post is nothing but antagonistic to a group that's already persecuted heavily in the west. Shameful, really.

Shakyamunison You misunderstood me I didn't mean you.

I was addressing my post to the op author by saying "someone here"
However, this person chose to troll again (just the same way throughout the whole thread) instead of addressing my question and posted something utterly unrelated which proved that he sees himself as a judge of religion in which he sees only the top of the iceberg, or what Fox channel shows him...

Time, us of a is a country that welcomes and tolerates all cultures and religions and you are just acting as an ignorant red-neck stuck in his own little world.
Again, the problem is not the problem. The problem is your own attitude about the problem.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You obviously are butt hurt about a religion you don't even partake in. If you read the OP you could specifically see I was talking about radicals, be mad bro, be real mad You are the only one who is butt hurt here and obviously biased seeing how you made a retarded generalized statement then cowered away once you got called on it. Even when I told you and i quote "I only argue the stupid generalized statement" from your original post you didn't feel the need to clarify anything about it, not until you realized you got yourself cornered with your own stupidity. That's when you started backpedaling. Sorry, too late. Everyone already saw you for a bigot that you are. You can still save the face though. First step would be admitting that you've made a stupid generalized statement because you're a bigot and now are just trying to change the subject. You're not fooling anyone anyway. Good luck.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

For a while now I've come to believe that it's simply a matter of time. Christianity has had five centuries more time to mellow out than Islam has. i've heard this before, that all islam needs is time since christianity had a head start. but i wonder... how does that make any sense? are we saying religion goes through some predictable evolutionary process over time? did it take christianity 1400 years to produce the renaissance or was it a simple matter of circumstance?

the scary thing about militant islam is that they often come from well educated and wealthy backgrounds. they're not just ignorant backwards people. they often have backgrounds in engineering, medicine, etc. they just really believe their version of religion is correct and necessary and they are willing to die for it.

Originally posted by konfetka
Shakyamunison You misunderstood me I didn't mean you.

I was addressing my post to the op author by saying "someone here"
However, this person chose to troll again (just the same way throughout the whole thread) instead of addressing my question and posted something utterly unrelated which proved that he sees himself as a judge of religion in which he sees only the top of the iceberg, or what Fox channel shows him...

Time, us of a is a country that welcomes and tolerates all cultures and religions and you are just acting as an ignorant red-neck stuck in his own little world.
Again, the problem is not the problem. The problem is your own attitude about the problem.

Okay, I see. No problem. Thanks for making that clear.

Given modern technological advances, particularly in weaponry, I don't think we have the luxury of letting Islam simply 'sweat this out', particularly because this isn't happening in isolation where these areas of the world do not have exposure to more secular ways of life. It's persisting in spite of being surrounded and exposed to modern society. When the most advanced weapon on the playing field was a crossbow or musket and a cannon was a WMD, sure, patience was reasonable, though it still cost millions of innocent lives in the name of 'heresy'. We're now in an era where a suitcase bomb or biological agent in a water supply can take out a significant portion of a city in the name of your sacred cow of choice, and with people STILL being beheaded for 'heresy' in the 21st Century. Modern zealotry of any stripe needs to be reined in, theological or otherwise.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It was an extremely xenophobic and inappropriate joke. Your whole initial post is nothing but antagonistic to a group that's already persecuted heavily in the west. Shameful, really.

No one cares what you think Marius, go join the UCLA.

Originally posted by SamZED
You are the only one who is butt hurt here and obviously biased seeing how you made a retarded generalized statement then cowered away once you got called on it. Even when I told you and i quote "I only argue the stupid generalized statement" from your original post you didn't feel the need to clarify anything about it, not until you realized you got yourself cornered with your own stupidity. That's when you started backpedaling. Sorry, too late. Everyone already saw you for a bigot that you are. You can still save the face though. First step would be admitting that you've made a stupid generalized statement because you're a bigot and now are just trying to change the subject. You're not fooling anyone anyway. Good luck.

Wrong. Badabing said it best and better then me, you were too cowedly to respond to him just like you to ashamed to admit you were wrong and I was clearly talking about radicals from the first page dummy.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I posted a similar opinion on another site. I think Affleck's problem was he got too angry. I agreed with what he was trying to say. He just couldn't say it without getting furious. It's true: hundreds of millions of Muslims are peaceful people who would never condone the actions of some of the more extreme. Just because some countries with lots of Muslims who are at war or just recently at war hold stupid opinions, does not mean they represent the other hundreds of millions of Muslims.

Also, did Islam make them like that or are they like that for other reasons and Islam is used as an excuse?

Lemme give you another example: Mormonism is fraught with self-righteous judgementalism. It is infuriating. Our religion actually teaches us, officially, to do the exact opposite. That doesn't stop tons of Mormons from persecuting homosexuals and ostracizing them.

Basically, to argue against Harris, because I'm clearly better at it than Affleck:

http://www.fair.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/civiliansindividuals.gif


Would you look at that: Muslims are the least militaristically violent group.

Second, but a distant second are your Mormons. I'm actually shocked. Mormons supported Bush, in general.




Also, if we REALLY REALLY want to argue against Harris' position, Gallop conducted a ridiculously awesome poll and in the poll, they conclude that the radicals comprise about 7% of their group. That's quite a bit and considerably more than probably any other religion in the world, imo.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/104941/what-makes-radical.aspxGallup.com,

A majority did not support the 9-11 attacks, which is important. That's a majority: hundreds of millions of Muslims.


I think that last link, everyone should read. It shows you that, yes, Muslims are pretty damn violent compared to other religious groups. But it also shows you that they are not all horrible violent beasts.


Edit - Also, if Ben would have done just about 2 minutes of research before going onto that show, he would have been able to hand Harris' ass to him. Instead, he just got b*tchy.

Is that chart only of Americans though? "via Muslim American polls"

Originally posted by SamZED
You are the only one who is butt hurt here and obviously biased seeing how you made a retarded generalized statement then cowered away once you got called on it. Even when I told you and i quote "I only argue the stupid generalized statement" from your original post you didn't feel the need to clarify anything about it, not until you realized you got yourself cornered with your own stupidity. That's when you started backpedaling. Sorry, too late. Everyone already saw you for a bigot that you are. You can still save the face though. First step would be admitting that you've made a stupid generalized statement because you're a bigot and now are just trying to change the subject. You're not fooling anyone anyway. Good luck.

What you can't add up is yes it was a question for Muslims, but in no way did I imply that 1 billion people are terrorists, I was asking and hoping for a response from a Muslim that might be able to explain the crazy behavior of the radical side, but you got ur head so far up your ass you cant tell a difference between a generalization from a targeted and specific question.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
What you can't add up is yes it was a question for Muslims, but in no way did I imply that 1 billion people are terrorists, I was asking and hoping for a response from a Muslim that might be able to explain the crazy behavior of the radical side

You need to work on your wording then, cos it came off as belligerent and discriminatory to just about everyone here:

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Why is your beliefs and practices so violent against non Muslims. Also why do you discriminate against women? Considering western culture and most of the world think how you treat women, they consider the men of Islam pigs, but you won't eat bacon because its unclean. Isn't the whole religion unclean as well.

Explain

Originally posted by Robtard
Is that chart only of Americans though? "via Muslim American polls"

The chart, yes. But the Gallop poll, which is far superior than the cherry-picked examples Harris' was using, no.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
What you can't add up is yes it was a question for Muslims, but in no way did I imply that 1 billion people are terrorists, I was asking and hoping for a response from a Muslim that might be able to explain the crazy behavior of the radical side, but you got ur head so far up your ass you cant tell a difference between a generalization from a targeted and specific question.

Asking a Muslim to explain the radical actions of jihadist terrorists is no different than asking a Christian to explain the actions of the WBC.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
No one cares what you think Marius, go join the UCLA.

Do you mean the ACLU? I like both though.

I knew this thread would turn out to be a religious ****fest.
In a "My God has a bigger penis than your God" way.

Makes me glad I became an agnostic.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Asking a Muslim to explain the radical actions of jihadist terrorists is no different than asking a Christian to explain the actions of the WBC.

Cept one would never accuse you of being a bigot if you did, which in fact you did, and no one said anything of the sort.

And this was as straight as it got.

Originally posted by Badabing
Extremists always scream with the loudest voices because they are usually in the minority. I don't know the exact percentage of the billion+ Muslims who believe in violence to all infidels, but it's not a majority. Most of these people live meager lives and just want to be left alone to practice their faith in peace. Unfortunately their religion is be using to perform barbaric acts of violence.

As far as the comparison to extreme Christians to extreme Muslims, I can't remember the last time extreme Christians killed thousands of people, beheaded innocent people, took over sections of a country with violence or kept women from voting, driving, etc. I know the most recent large movement was the IRA. But I believe that has all but stopped. Then there was the Crusades and Inquisition centuries ago. If there has been anything large scale more recently I'd be curious to know about it.

Christians make up several sects like Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, Greek Orthodox, Evangelicals, Mormons, Lutherans, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. There are some fringe sects and people but they hardly represent most mainstream Christians.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Cept one would never accuse you of being a bigot if you did, which in fact you did, and no one said anything of the sort.


If Lestov worded it like you did with Loaded Questions, people would have.

If someone did this, as an example:

Question for Christians

Why is your beliefs and practices so violent against non Christians. Also why do you discriminate against women? Considering Eastern culture and most of the world think how you treat women, they consider the men of Christianity turds, but you won't eat turds because its unclean. Isn't the whole religion unclean as well.

Explain

Do you see how that comes off as antagonizing to all Christians and why proper wording is important?

huh, damn cant read on ignore. Oh well.

Then why are you PMing me?

huh, damn cant read on ignore. Oh well.

Posted something.

huh, damn cant read on ignore. Oh well.

This is a post.