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Perfect Cell:
http://s30.postimg.org/yuvlh3tlt/imageedit_10_8419568579.gif


LSSJ Broly:
http://s30.postimg.org/eekkyvjc1/imageedit_8_5001497823.gif


Dabura:
http://s30.postimg.org/wrl69ftsx/imageedit_5_3206016279.gif


Bojack:
http://s30.postimg.org/8p4cekd5t/imageedit_3_7885219953.gif


VS.


SSJ2 Gohan-Cell Games:
http://s30.postimg.org/cba5r7jj5/imageedit_12_7076375652.gif




Fight on an indestructible battlefield. IF Gohan defeats his opponents, replace Perfect Cell with SuperPerfect Cell in the second battle (the rest of his opponents stay the same.)

Who wins?

Due to how dbz works plus the fact that gohan is stronger than all of them he wins.

Gohan wins the first scenario quite easily, and dies horribly in the second scenario.

Originally posted by Galan007
Gohan wins the first scenario quite easily, and dies horribly in the second scenario.


theres only one scenario here

Originally posted by yungz22
theres only one scenario here

The second one has super perfect cell in it if he beats the team

Originally posted by yungz22
theres only one scenario here Not according to the OP:Originally posted by john allerdyce
IF Gohan defeats his opponents, replace Perfect Cell with SuperPerfect Cell in the second battle (the rest of his opponents stay the same.)

Originally posted by Galan007
Gohan wins the first scenario quite easily, and dies horribly in the second scenario.

Hm, okay... What if we add Pikkon to the first battle? Would Gohan still stomp?

^ Adding Pikkon would unquestionably tip the scales in favor of the team, given that he appeared to wield SSJ2-level power--as was made evident when he easily owned Cell with just 2 blows, and Frieza with a casual b*tchslap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yIMFlGXQ5w
(Starts at 1:45)

He also brushed off Goku's 'Super Kaio-ken' attack, without sustaining any noticeable damage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7HvJMFZo7Y
...Which is quite impressive considering that a standard kaio-ken would've doubled Goku's SSJ energy output--essentially giving him SSJ2-level power.

Was that in series or movie Gal, I forgot.

Those clips are anime/series filler. Set in between the Cell and Buu sagas.

Team wins.

Is Gohan's power maximum? No? Then he cannot defeat Broly, whose power is quite canonly maximum.

With that knowledge offically dropped:

Originally posted by Galan007
Gohan wins the first scenario quite easily, and dies horribly in the second scenario.

^ Gohan actually dies horribly in both battles, now that Pikkon has been added to the first scenario.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Gohan actually dies horribly in both battles, now that Pikkon has been added to the first scenario.

Pikkon? Don't make me laugh! Pikkon is a pushover when compared to the maximum power possessed by Broly whose power is indeed maximum!

TEH MAXMUM POWA!!111!11!!1!!

Originally posted by Galan007
Not according to the OP:


Regardless he still wins because hes stronger than super perfect cell gohan killed him with half his power and one arm


Also the way dbz works it doesnt matter if you team up with somebody if you stronger than all of them you still win the fight.

Weve seen examples of this countless times throughout the series

Dabura is the only actual obstacle in the first scenario. In the second scenario I think Cell could win on his own.

Originally posted by yungz22
Regardless he still wins because hes stronger than super perfect cell gohan killed him with half his power and one arm SPCell was distracted by a cheap-shot from Vegeta. Gohan capitalized on that moment of weakness--that's the only reason he won.

Also, with the additional of Pikkon, the team wins the first scenario as well. That's for sure.

Originally posted by Galan007
SPCell was distracted by a cheap-shot from Vegeta. Gohan capitalized on that moment of weakness--that's the only reason he won.

Also, with the additional of Pikkon, the team wins the first scenario as well. That's for sure.


Again he beat him with HALF of his power regardless of vegeta's failed attempt to hurt cell If gohan was full powered ssj2 he would have beat cell effortlessly.

The only person here that might be as strong as ssj 2 teen gohan is dabura

Originally posted by yungz22
The only person here that might be as strong as ssj 2 teen gohan is dabura

Nope. SSJ2 Gohan would curb stomp Dabura.

Originally posted by yungz22
Again he beat him with HALF of his power regardless of vegeta's failed attempt to hurt cell Say it with me: "DISTRACTED" (disˈtraktəd.) In DBZ, it's possible for a weaker character to harm/incapacitate/overpower/kill a more powerful character IF the element of surprise is on their side. It's happened in pretty much every saga, in fact. Nothing new.

Originally posted by yungz22
If gohan was full powered ssj2 he would have beat cell effortlessly. Sorry, but no. If you look at how SPCell was depicted, he was a SSJ2. He was resurrected with a stated "massive" power increase, had a more furious aura around him, AND had lightning encircling him--all of which are glaring trademarks of a SSJ2.

That said, since PCell was more powerful than SSJ Gohan, he would have logically become more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan after his resurrection into SPCell--assuming he received the standard SSJ2 power increase of 2x>SSJ, of course.

Originally posted by juggerman
Nope. SSJ2 Gohan would curb stomp Dabura.


I agree lol thats why i said might

Originally posted by Galan007
Say it with me: "DISTRACTED" (disˈtraktəd.) In DBZ, it's possible for a weaker character to harm/incapacitate/overpower/kill a more powerful character IF the element of surprise is on their side. It's happened in pretty much every saga, in fact. Nothing new.

Sorry, but no. If you look at how SPCell was depicted, he was a SSJ2. He was resurrected with a stated "massive" power increase, had a more furious aura around him, AND had lightning encircling him--all of which are glaring trademarks of a SSJ2.

That said, since PCell was more powerful than SSJ Gohan, he would have logically become more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan after his resurrection into SPCell--assuming he received the standard SSJ2 power increase of 2x>SSJ, of course.


Dude no matter how you put it ssj2 gohan was stronger than super perfect cell. Gohan with Half of his strength and one arm was able to hold back cell's super kamehameha for a considerable amount of time if gohan was full powered cell would have died much faster. There wouldnt even be a struggle.


Goku himself said gohan even with your current power you can still beat him.

You're entirely ignoring facts/context(ie. the power Cell clearly wielded, Cell arrogantly opting to toy with Gohan instead of swiftly killing him, Cell being distracted when Gohan destroyed him, etc.) in favor of your own conjecture. No need to indulge you any further.

Gohan dies horribly in both rounds.

Originally posted by Galan007
Cell being distracted when Gohan destroyed him

Was Cell distracted when Goku made that statement?

It's been so long since I've read DBZ and right now all that's coming to me is the scene in DBZ Budokai where Goku goes "Gohan use the pain of loss." It's a shame that I remember that more clearly.

Originally posted by juggerman
Was Cell distracted when Goku made that statement? Yes.
http://i.imgur.com/10R87hp.gif
http://i.imgur.com/W8YON7X.gif
http://i.imgur.com/tUKeFMU.gif
http://i.imgur.com/KFYFTR7.gif

That was one of Vegeta's best moments ever.

Those links don't show where Goku said Gohan was stronger than Cell

I don't know what you're asking..?

Ok yungz said "Goku himself said gohan even with your current power you can still beat him." and in your next response you mentioned Cell being destracted so I asked was he distracted when Goku made the statement of Gohan being powerful enough to win.

Basically it seems like you believe Gohan's victory was dependent on Cell's destraction but if Goku said Gohan could still overpower Cell BEFORE Cell was distracted then it would seem as tho Gohan was still stronger than Cell but just needed to believe it himself.

Normally I'd just go back and read the part myself but I can't until I leave work

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok yungz said "Goku himself said gohan even with your current power you can still beat him." and in your next response you mentioned Cell being destracted so I asked was he distracted when Goku made the statement of Gohan being powerful enough to win.

Basically it seems like you believe Gohan's victory was dependent on Cell's destraction but if Goku said Gohan could still overpower Cell BEFORE Cell was distracted then it would seem as tho Gohan was still stronger than Cell but just needed to believe it himself.

Normally I'd just go back and read the part myself but I can't until I leave work Goku made that statement prior to Cell being distracted. However, Gohan was ready to just give up and allow Cell to kill him at that point--Goku's pep-talk simply encouraged him to mount a counterattack.

Furthermore, Cell's distraction IS what Gohan capitalized on, clearly. Prior to that, Gohan was definitively losing the kamehameha-off. Heck, Piccolo specifically noted that Gohan's ki was weaker than Cell's.

Originally posted by Galan007
Goku made that statement prior to Cell being distracted. However, Gohan was ready to just give up and allow Cell to kill him at that point--Goku's pep-talk simply encouraged him to mount a counterattack.

Furthermore, Cell's distraction IS what Gohan capitalized on, clearly. Prior to that, Gohan was definitively losing the kamehameha-off. Heck, Piccolo specifically noted that Gohan's ki was weaker than Cell's.

Lol regardless of being distracted or not you seem to be disregarding the fact that gohan was at HALF strength and only had one arm during the beam STRUGGLE. And even goku himself stating that gohan was still strong enough to beat cell even at half power.

If gohan was a full powered ssj2 cell would have died alot faster

Why is it so hard for you to grasp that in DBZ, distracted and/or unprepared characters can be harmed, or even killed, by weaker characters--especially when they use energy attacks.

Examples from that saga:
Vegeta's Final Flash vs. Cell
Goku's Warp Kamehameha vs. Cell

Understand? Goku and Vegeta were vastly weaker than Cell, but were still able to put an immense hurting on him with energy attacks delivered while Cell's guard was down... The final scene with Gohan wasn't really much different.

As I mentioned above: Piccolo outright stated that Gohan's ki was weaker than Cell's:
http://i.imgur.com/yEyeX1c.gif
Gohan simply capitalized on Cell's moment of distraction/unpreparedness, like Goku and Vegeta had done before him. The only difference is that all of Cell's person was caught in Gohan's blast, thus he was permanently destroyed.

But in lieu of all the info I've presented, I am to believe that Gohan, at just half power, was somehow more powerful than SPCell(who, himself, appeared to have been upgraded to SSJ2 levels)..? Lol, that's downright nonsense.

Originally posted by Galan007
Why is it so hard for you to grasp that in DBZ, distracted and/or unprepared characters can be harmed, or even killed, by weaker characters--especially when they use energy attacks.

Examples from that saga:
Vegeta's Final Flash vs. Cell
Goku's Warp Kamehameha vs. Cell
Tien's Tri-Beam vs. Cell
Etc. Etc. Etc.

Understand? All of the above characters were vastly weaker than Cell, but were still able to put an immense hurting on him with energy attacks. Furthermore, all of the above attacks were delivered while Cell's guard was down. The final scene with Gohan wasn't much different.

As I mentioned above: Piccolo outright stated that Gohan's ki was weaker that Cell's:
http://i.imgur.com/yEyeX1c.gif
Gohan simply capitalized on Cell's moment of distraction/unpreparedness, like Goku and Vegeta had done before him. The only difference is that all of Cell's person was caught in Gohan's blast, thus he was permanently destroyed.

But in lieu of all the above, I am to believe that Gohan was inextricably more powerful than SPCell... And at half power, no less? Lol, that's downright nonsense.


So your gonna disregard goku's statement even tho he is the most knowledgeable fighter in the show more so than piccolo when it comes to fighting and power levels and was the first person to witness ssj2

Sure during the beam struggle cell may have been stronger but your also forgetting that at that same time.


GOHAN was at HALF strength and had only ONE working arm. Had gohan been at full powered he would have beaten cell alot easier

Originally posted by yungz22
So your gonna disregard goku's statement even tho he is the most knowledgeable fighter in the show more so than piccolo when it comes to fighting and power levels. You continue to ignore the context of Goku's statement ad nauseam. Again: Gohan was ready to just give up and allow Cell to kill him at that point--Goku's pep-talk simply encouraged him to mount a counterattack. Had Goku not spoke up, Gohan wouldn't have tried to defend at all(he made this clear.)

Originally posted by yungz22
Sure during the beam struggle cell may have been stronger but your also forgetting that at that same time. Cell WAS more powerful. Piccolo confirmed this fact for us. Why else do you think Gohan had to wait until Cell was distracted by Vegeta's cheap-shot before he let loose with his blast? He clearly didn't have a prayer otherwise.

Originally posted by yungz22
GOHAN was at HALF strength and had only ONE working arm. Had gohan been at full powered he would have beaten cell alot easier Based on... No facts at all. none

Here ARE some facts, though:
In DBZ, weaker characters CAN harm stronger characters with energy attacks. It happened ALL THE TIME, IN EVERY SAGA. Tien's Tri-Beam(s) vs. Imperfect Cell is another example. What's not computing here?

And again, SPCell appeared to have been resurrected as a SSJ2(I mentioned why I'm confident of this above.) We know that a SSJ's power is doubled when they become a SSJ2. We also know that PCell was more powerful than SSJ Gohan. Thus, SPCell, assuming he did evolve into a SSJ2, would have logically been more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan as well.

In even simpler terms:
If PCell's power=10 and SSJ Gohan's power=8, then SPCell's power=20 and SSJ2 Gohan's power=16.

Simple logic is simple.

Originally posted by Galan007
You continue to ignore the context of Goku's statement ad nauseam. Again: Gohan was ready to just give up and allow Cell to kill him at that point--Goku's pep-talk simply encouraged him to mount a counterattack. Had Goku not spoke up, Gohan wouldn't have tried to defend at all(he made this clear.)

Cell WAS more powerful. Piccolo confirmed this fact for us. Why else do you think Gohan had to wait until Cell was distracted by Vegeta's cheap-shot before he let loose with his blast? He clearly didn't have a prayer otherwise.

Based on... No facts at all. none

Here ARE some facts, though:
In DBZ, weaker characters CAN harm stronger characters with energy attacks. It happened ALL THE TIME, IN EVERY SAGA. Tien's Tri-Beam(s) vs. Imperfect Cell is another example. What's not computing here?

And again, SPCell appeared to have been resurrected as a SSJ2(I mentioned why I'm confident of this above.) We know that a SSJ's power is doubled when they become a SSJ2. We also know that PCell was more powerful than SSJ Gohan. Thus, SPCell, assuming he did evolve into a SSJ2, would have logically been more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan as well.

In even simpler terms:
If PCell's power=10 and SSJ Gohan's power=8, then SPCell's power=20 and SSJ2 Gohan's power=16.

Simple logic is simple.

Thats speculation ussj trunks had an electrical aura as well does that make him an ssj2?

Originally posted by yungz22
Thats speculation ussj trunks had an electrical aura as well does that make him an ssj2?

SPCell's aura:
http://i.imgur.com/Gkg2aWu.png

As you can see, the electricity around SPCell is constant, and his aura is much more 'furious':
http://i.imgur.com/t3kjMrX.png

http://i.imgur.com/jfGFWZc.png


Now, here's SSJ2 Gohan's aura:
http://i.imgur.com/Z8bRDkf.png


As you can see, their auras are the exact same. And if that's not enough, we also have Cell explicitly telling us that upon his resurrection, he received a "MASSIVE" power-up:
http://i.imgur.com/ySlWerk.gif

So, an aura IDENTICAL to that of a SSJ2 + a MASSIVE increase in power over his former-self. Gee, I wonder what Akira's intention was...?

kruemelmonsteryn0

____________


And for the record: here's USSJ Trunks' alleged 'electrical' aura:
http://i.imgur.com/0D7RZ3D.png

...Which looks absolutely NOTHING like either of the above.

Originally posted by Galan007


SPCell's aura:
http://i.imgur.com/Gkg2aWu.png

As you can see, the electricity around SPCell is constant, and his aura is much more 'furious':
http://i.imgur.com/t3kjMrX.png

http://i.imgur.com/jfGFWZc.png


Now, here's SSJ2 Gohan's aura:
http://i.imgur.com/Z8bRDkf.png


As you can see, their auras couldn't be more similar. And if that's not enough, we also have Cell explicitly telling us that upon his resurrection, he received a "MASSIVE" power-up:
http://i.imgur.com/ySlWerk.gif

So, an aura IDENTICAL to that of a SSJ2 + a MASSIVE increase in power over his former-self. Gee, I wonder what Akira's intention was...?

kruemelmonsteryn0

____________


And for the record: here's USSJ Trunks' alleged 'electrical' aura:
http://i.imgur.com/0D7RZ3D.png

...Which looks absolutely NOTHING like either of the above.

I didnt read the manga but in the show he had electricity around him alrhough it was slight.

Also those two pics between gohan and cell gohan's aura looks much more powerful than cell's.


Also regardless if its a pep talk or not goku wpuldnt have said it if it werent true because like i said before goku is the most knowledgeable fighter in the series as well as the first to witness full powered ssj 2. He knew gohan still had enough power to kill cell.

Goku's words beat your speculation

Originally posted by yungz22
I didnt read the manga but in the show he had electricity around him alrhough it was slight.

Also those two pics between gohan and cell gohan's aura looks much more powerful than cell's. In terms of canonicity, the manga supersedes the anime. That is why all of my facts come straight from the manga.

Anyway, lol @ your straw-grasping. Their auras couldn't have been depicted more similarly. Here's a few different pages to compare them:
http://i.imgur.com/I34qBiG.png

http://i.imgur.com/XG7dBEp.png

IDENTICAL. Deal with it.

Originally posted by yungz22
Also regardless if its a pep talk or not goku wpuldnt have said it if it werent true because like i said before goku is the most knowledgeable fighter in the series as well as the first to witness full powered ssj 2. He knew gohan still had enough power to kill cell.

Goku's words beat your speculation Yes, keep trollishly ignoring the context behind Goku's statement. Also continue ignoring this:
http://s24.postimg.org/v7yric8px/Untitled.png

...It doesn't make you look like a 'tard or anything.

Originally posted by Galan007
In terms of canonicity, the manga supersedes the anime. That is why all of my facts come straight from the manga.

Anyway, lol @ your straw-grasping. Their auras couldn't have been depicted more similarly. Here's a few different pages to compare them:
http://i.imgur.com/I34qBiG.png

http://i.imgur.com/XG7dBEp.png

IDENTICAL. Deal with it.

Yes, keep trollishly ignoring the context behind Goku's statement. Also continue ignoring this:
http://s24.postimg.org/v7yric8px/Untitled.png

...It doesn't make you look like a 'tard or anything.


Again piccollo hadnt seen gohans full hidden power like goku did while they were training. Goku knew that gohan still had alot of power that he hadnt tapped into and that gohan holding some of it back. Even goku was stating that gohan was holding back because he didnt want to destroy the earth.


That fact plus goku telling gohan that even at half strength he could still kill cell defeats your speculation.


Unless your trying to say that piccolo is more knowledgeable than goku when it comes to fighting.

Piccolo had obviously seen more of Gohan's power than Goku did, considering Gohan only went SSJ2 for a brief second, while he was fighting for an extended time against Cell.

Goku's statement was a rushed pep-talk to encourage Gohan not to give up completely. Gohan was obviously weaker than Cell, as per him losing dramatically in the struggle until Vegeta distracted Cell. Piccolo made an observation based on facts, which has proven in the past to be superior to Goku's knowledge, ex. When Goku was fighting #19 and he thought he was stronger, but Piccolo was able to tell that his ki was weakening and he would lose.

Piccolo IS more knowledgeable than Goku when it comes to fighting. When it comes to anything, in fact. Goku is a master at fighting like no other, but all of his strength and technique rely solely on muscle memory. That's why he's able to replicate any technique after seeing it. The "monkey see, monkey do", technique he learned in Dragon Ball works so well for him BECAUSE he has such great muscle memory. That's why Goku has never been able to create a single attack by himself.

What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that Broly is a smarter fighter than Vegeta. Just because Broly's stronger, doesn't mean that he's smarter. In Broly's case, it means the contrary.

Either way though, in regards to the thread, Gohan wins easily in the first round, and gets stomped in the second. Mostly because of the difference in Perfect Cell, and SP Cell, who was basically give a SSJ bonus, as per Daizenshuu profiling.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Piccolo had obviously seen more of Gohan's power than Goku did, considering Gohan only went SSJ2 for a brief second, while he was fighting for an extended time against Cell.

Goku's statement was a rushed pep-talk to encourage Gohan not to give up completely. Gohan was obviously weaker than Cell, as per him losing dramatically in the struggle until Vegeta distracted Cell. Piccolo made an observation based on facts, which has proven in the past to be superior to Goku's knowledge, ex. When Goku was fighting #19 and he thought he was stronger, but Piccolo was able to tell that his ki was weakening and he would lose.

Piccolo IS more knowledgeable than Goku when it comes to fighting. When it comes to anything, in fact. Goku is a master at fighting like no other, but all of his strength and technique rely solely on muscle memory. That's why he's able to replicate any technique after seeing it. The "monkey see, monkey do", technique he learned in Dragon Ball works so well for him BECAUSE he has such great muscle memory. That's why Goku has never been able to create a single attack by himself.

What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that Broly is a smarter fighter than Vegeta. Just because Broly's stronger, doesn't mean that he's smarter. In Broly's case, it means the contrary.

Either way though, in regards to the thread, Gohan wins easily in the first round, and gets stomped in the second. Mostly because of the difference in Perfect Cell, and SP Cell, who was basically give a SSJ bonus, as per Daizenshuu profiling.

gohans ki at the time was weaker because his power was halved and he only had one arm. but you guys seem to be disregarding the fact that goku knew gohan had more power than he was showing. goku even stating that gohan didnt want to destoy the earth thats why he wasnt letting everything out. Goku is the only person who was with gohan in the hyperbolic time chamber he knew what gohan was capable of.


your the first person ive ever seen say that piccolo is a more knowledgeable fighter than goku. even tho a god like bills called him a fighting "genius".

Originally posted by yungz22
gohans ki at the time was weaker because his power was halved and he only had one arm. but you guys seem to be disregarding the fact that goku knew gohan had more power than he was showing. goku even stating that gohan didnt want to destoy the earth thats why he wasnt letting everything out. Goku is the only person who was with gohan in the hyperbolic time chamber he knew what gohan was capable of.


your the first person ive ever seen say that piccolo is a more knowledgeable fighter than goku. even tho a god like bills called him a fighting "genius".

1. Show the scan saying Gohan's ki was halved.

2. One arm not working or gone has never slowed anyone down before. Hell, even future Gohan was still as good of a fighter after losing his left arm. Show any proof that him having one arm made the Kamehameha any weaker.

3. Goku only saw him go SSJ2 for a second, that's why he knew that he could go SSJ2. No one else knew, but they all saw his power when he did. Give proof that they didn't know how strong he was, even though that's in direct contrast of the smartest fighter, Piccolo.

4. Show the scan of Goku saying that Gohan didn't want to destroy the Earth was making his attack weaker.

5. Bills didn't call him a fighting genius. He said he was the second best fighter he'd ever fought, behind only Whiss. I guess show the scene, but it didn't happen, so I know you can't.

6. Again, prove that Goku is a smart fighter at all. Which he isn't. He is a GREAT fighter, with incredible strength. That doesn't make him smart, as I just proved previously. "What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that Broly is a smarter fighter than Vegeta. Just because Broly's stronger, doesn't mean that he's smarter. In Broly's case, it means the contrary."

If you can complete numbers 1-6, you will maybe have an argument. Otherwise, shut up.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. Show the scan saying Gohan's ki was halved.

2. One arm not working or gone has never slowed anyone down before. Hell, even future Gohan was still as good of a fighter after losing his left arm. Show any proof that him having one arm made the Kamehameha any weaker.

3. Goku only saw him go SSJ2 for a second, that's why he knew that he could go SSJ2. No one else knew, but they all saw his power when he did. Give proof that they didn't know how strong he was, even though that's in direct contrast of the smartest fighter, Piccolo.

4. Show the scan of Goku saying that Gohan didn't want to destroy the Earth was making his attack weaker.

5. Bills didn't call him a fighting genius. He said he was the second best fighter he'd ever fought, behind only Whiss. I guess show the scene, but it didn't happen, so I know you can't.

6. Again, prove that Goku is a smart fighter at all. Which he isn't. He is a GREAT fighter, with incredible strength. That doesn't make him smart, as I just proved previously. "What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that Broly is a smarter fighter than Vegeta. Just because Broly's stronger, doesn't mean that he's smarter. In Broly's case, it means the contrary."

If you can complete numbers 1-6, you will maybe have an argument. Otherwise, shut up.

1.Oh ok so vegeta was still able to fight 18 even though she broke he arm in two?
Actually having one arm is one of the reasons the androids were able to kill him. Up until then it was always a stalemate between future gohan and the androids. And how about gohan stating he was at half power and only had one arm was a hinderance and one of the reasons he thought he couldnt win at first

2. goku stated that gohan had enough strength left inside him to kill cell and that gohan was holding back since he didnt wanna destroy the earth.

3. Piccolo maybe smarter in the philisophical sense and overall knowledge of the world but goku is smarter fighting wise.

4. http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3066-6/dragon-ball/chapter-417.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3066-7/dragon-ball/chapter-417.html
Gohans natural peaceful nature and hate for fighting and destruction also bolsters those statements.

5. You should watch the movie again right before bills said he was the second strongest he called goku a genius.

6. How about discovering the weakness of the ussj and creating the full powered ssj state, the many diversionary tactics hes used in battle, incorporating instant transmission in battle, being the first ssj 3, and many other accounts that i cant think off the top of my head.

Why tell me to shut up its a free country i can do what i want and your child like tendencies arent needed on this site


You know your very tough on the internet i wonder what you look like in real life and if youd act the same in public #whatsyourfacebook #showyourface #yournottough # nobodysafraidofyou

Why are you still acting like Gohan outright beat Cell during their Kamehameha-off? He didn't. There is a reason why Gohan specifically waited until CELL WAS DISTRACTED BY VEGETA'S CHEAP-SHOT before he "released all his power." Had Cell's guard not been down, like it was in the aforementioned scene, that 'tactic' simply would not have worked.

I think it's quite clear that SPCell~SSJ2 Gohan(peak)>>SSJ2 Gohan(injured.) Imo, you're not only taking Goku's statement grossly out of context, but are also acting as though said comment supersedes all evidence to the contrary. This is faulty for reasons I should not have to explain.

Just throwing this out there:

It did seem like Goku was trying to tell Gohan that he still had enough power to overpower Cell. I say this because even though Gohan and Piccolo thought he was getting weaker Goku was telling him he could still win without knowing Vegeta would help. This is similar to Goku knowing Gohan could reach the next level before Gohan himself knew.

I don't recall Goku ever being wrong about stuff like that before.

^ Then why did Goku only shout "NOW!"(ie. "give it everything you've got right this second!" after Vegeta distracted/blasted Cell?

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Then why did Goku only shout "NOW!"(ie. "give it everything you've got right this second!" after Vegeta distracted/blasted Cell?

Cuz it was his best opportunity to do so. Goku still is a tactician and takes advantage of opportunities against opponents. But he still was telling Gohan that he could still win before the distraction. Basically he had no reason to believe such an opportunity would present itself yet still told Gohan that he could win.

So either he knew Vegeta, or someone at all, would provide the much needed diverson or he felt Gohan could win without it.

I'm only going to say that if there was some massive power gap between SSJ2 Gohan and SPC, Gohan wouldn't have been injured by Cell's blast in the first place, guard down or not

We've seen what happens when massively inferior people try to blast a much stronger character even when he's standing still. Second form Freeza took Vegeta's blast to the back, which had no effect. Piccolo's blast against a Raditz who wasn't even making any effort to guard himself did nothing too.

Originally posted by juggerman
Cuz it was his best opportunity to do so. Goku still is a tactician and takes advantage of opportunities against opponents. But he still was telling Gohan that he could still win before the distraction. Basically he had no reason to believe such an opportunity would present itself yet still told Gohan that he could win.

So either he knew Vegeta, or someone at all, would provide the much needed diverson or he felt Gohan could win without it. Seems like you're digging pretty deep here.

Originally posted by Crimson Dragoon
I'm only going to say that if there was some massive power gap between SSJ2 Gohan and SPC, Gohan wouldn't have been injured by Cell's blast in the first place, guard down or not

We've seen what happens when massively inferior people try to blast a much stronger character even when he's standing still. Second form Freeza took Vegeta's blast to the back, which had no effect. Piccolo's blast against a Raditz who wasn't even making any effort to guard himself did nothing too. Very true.

Piccolo's all-out blast vs. Imperfect Cell is another example. Piccolo(who was ~ #17) attacked Imperfect Cell(who was ~ #16) with his most powerful blast, and Cell didn't even take any damage whatsoever.

Plus too, if SSJ2 Gohan was as superior to Super P. Cell as he was to regular Perfect Cell (the latter of which he toyed with to nearly no end), he probably would've been fast enough to save Vegeta from that finishing move WITHOUT getting one of his arms nearly blown off in the process.

Originally posted by Crimson Dragoon
I'm only going to say that if there was some massive power gap between SSJ2 Gohan and SPC, Gohan wouldn't have been injured by Cell's blast in the first place, guard down or not

We've seen what happens when massively inferior people try to blast a much stronger character even when he's standing still. Second form Freeza took Vegeta's blast to the back, which had no effect. Piccolo's blast against a Raditz who wasn't even making any effort to guard himself did nothing too.

I'm not saying it's the only way it could be but why would Goku tell Gohan he could win if he really couldn't. Keep in mind Goku didn't know Cell would be distracted so in his mind Gohan really didn't have much of a chance if Cell was so far above him


Originally posted by Galan007
Seems like you're digging pretty deep here.


You're the one that said weaker can hurt stronger is stronger is distracted right? Why can't that apply to Gohan being distracted by trying to save Vegeta?

Originally posted by Crimson Dragoon
I'm only going to say that if there was some massive power gap between SSJ2 Gohan and SPC, Gohan wouldn't have been injured by Cell's blast in the first place, guard down or not

We've seen what happens when massively inferior people try to blast a much stronger character even when he's standing still. Second form Freeza took Vegeta's blast to the back, which had no effect. Piccolo's blast against a Raditz who wasn't even making any effort to guard himself did nothing too.



weaker ppl hurt stronger ppl alll the time....cell has been hurt by those weaker thaan him countless times

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Plus too, if SSJ2 Gohan was as superior to Super P. Cell as he was to regular Perfect Cell (the latter of which he toyed with to nearly no end), he probably would've been fast enough to save Vegeta from that finishing move WITHOUT getting one of his arms nearly blown off in the process. Also a good point.

Originally posted by yungz22
weaker ppl hurt stronger ppl alll the time....cell has been hurt by those weaker thaan him countless times Heh, I like how you only use this line of argumentation when it suits your case, but tried to completely ignore it the several times I mentioned it.

Fact is: you've no PROOF that SPC was weaker than SSJ2 Gohan. None at all. You're simply presenting personal conjecture, and trying to sell it as fact. Doesn't work that way.

When Cell WAS harmed by weaker characters, we knew, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that they WERE weaker than himself. No illogical guesstimations were required. The same CANNOT be said about SPC in comparison to SSJ2 Gohan, however--by all accounts they were nigh-equals. That is why your logic fails here.

Originally posted by Galan007
Also a good point.

Heh, I like how you only use this line of argumentation when it suits your case, but tried to completely ignore it the several times I mentioned it.

Fact is: you've no PROOF that SPC was weaker than SSJ2 Gohan. None at all. You're simply presenting personal conjecture, and trying to sell it as fact. Doesn't work that way.

When Cell WAS harmed by weaker characters, we knew, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that they WERE weaker than himself. No illogical guesstimations were required. The same CANNOT be said about SPC in comparison to SSJ2 Gohan, however--by all accounts they were nigh-equals. That is why your logic fails here.

dialouge from the main character about his son isnt fact..... even though he knows his own son better than anyone in the series as well as him being the best fighter in the show is not is not evidence?

and when did i ever say weaker characters couldnt hurt stronger ones those words never came out of my mouth.


the facts are that gohan was at half strength as stated by him and that his father who traind him stated he ws still strong enough to kill cell as well as goku stating that gohan was holding back more than once. as well as gohans natural peacefull nature are all evidence that bolster my point that a full powered gohan would have been more than enough for cell. again even with gohan at half strength there was still a beam struggle between the two

We also have Piccolo explicitly telling us that Gohan's ki was weaker than SPC's. We also have Gohan specifically waiting until SPC was distracted by Vegeta's blast before he 'let loose'. We also have SPC telling us that SSJ2 Gohan, even at his peak levels, wouldn't have been able to beat him.

...But Goku's statement apparently supersedes all of that in your world. Heh...

Originally posted by Galan007
We also have Piccolo explicitly telling us that Gohan's ki was weaker than SPC's. We also have Gohan specifically waiting until SPC was distracted by Vegeta's blast before he 'let loose'. We also have SPC telling us that SSJ2 Gohan, even at his peak levels, wouldn't have been able to beat him.

...But Goku's statement apparently supersedes all of that in your world. Heh...


Piccolo was wrong about gohan even being able to compete with cell in the first place he swore it was over once goku nominated gohan to fight him. Who ended up being right? Goku did.

Goku's word holds more bearing against piccol because hes never been wrong about who can fight or beat who. He knew gohan has always had power inside him something others didnt.


When did cell say that? Panels?

Originally posted by yungz22
1.Oh ok so vegeta was still able to fight 18 even though she broke he arm in two?
Actually having one arm is one of the reasons the androids were able to kill him. Up until then it was always a stalemate between future gohan and the androids. And how about gohan stating he was at half power and only had one arm was a hinderance and one of the reasons he thought he couldnt win at first

2. goku stated that gohan had enough strength left inside him to kill cell and that gohan was holding back since he didnt wanna destroy the earth.

3. Piccolo maybe smarter in the philisophical sense and overall knowledge of the world but goku is smarter fighting wise.

4. http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3066-6/dragon-ball/chapter-417.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3066-7/dragon-ball/chapter-417.html
Gohans natural peaceful nature and hate for fighting and destruction also bolsters those statements.

5. You should watch the movie again right before bills said he was the second strongest he called goku a genius.

6. How about discovering the weakness of the ussj and creating the full powered ssj state, the many diversionary tactics hes used in battle, incorporating instant transmission in battle, being the first ssj 3, and many other accounts that i cant think off the top of my head.

Why tell me to shut up its a free country i can do what i want and your child like tendencies arent needed on this site


You know your very tough on the internet i wonder what you look like in real life and if youd act the same in public #whatsyourfacebook #showyourface #yournottough # nobodysafraidofyou

1. Vegeta fought with every bone in his body broken against Goku. I'm sure the arm thing wasn't THAT debilitating for him. In fact, Trunks admitted that the most damage they did was to his pride. Gohan never said his power was halved. Future Gohan never said his one arm was a hindrance. In fact, the androids said they only killed him because they thought he would have been stronger at that point, but he wasn't.

2. Yes, but who do you think knows more about Gohan's power? Goku, who is billions of miles away in a different dimension, or Gohan himself, who can feel his and Cell's power difference? Gohan said he was already doing his best, which is why they counted on Vegeta to distract Cell.

3. What does that have to do with anything? Again, Goku's best example of strategy in a fight is using a bunch of energy on two kamehameha's to distract Frieza for a second to land a single kick. Piccolo has charted the sky to plant bombs of ki in the midst of his offense to cause more damage and trap his opponents, he has used distractions to beat enemies stronger than him, and even acted like he was dying to extract info out of weaker opponents. Piccolo is a strategist. Goku is a simple martial artist. Again, being a better fighter =/= being a smarter fighter.

4. In the same scan you just provided, Gohan contradicted Goku by saying he was already going full power. He knows more about his power than Goku, so his statement > Goku's.

5. Nope. He didn't.

6. Goku hasn't used diversionary tactics, he has used his strength, speed, and IT to dodge when he needed to. That is not strategic at all. He simply teleported out of the way of beams he couldn't dodge. Piccolo on the other hand, or someone smarter than Goku, would have teleported the beam as well, and made Cell/Buu hit themselves. SSJ3 was a result of training in a dead body that uses less energy. Even Goten and Trunks replicated that. Not to mention that Vegeta also knew the limitations of the super form.

Not to mention, you know, "We also have Piccolo explicitly telling us that Gohan's ki was weaker than SPC's. We also have Gohan specifically waiting until SPC was distracted by Vegeta's blast before he 'let loose'. We also have SPC telling us that SSJ2 Gohan, even at his peak levels, wouldn't have been able to beat him."

And btw, you're not gonna guilt me into joining your fb group. Sorry, I'd just rather connect this site with my social life. I'm sure you can understand...

Originally posted by yungz22
Piccolo was wrong about gohan even being able to compete with cell in the first place he swore it was over once goku nominated gohan to fight him. Who ended up being right? Goku did.

Goku's word holds more bearing against piccol because hes never been wrong about who can fight or beat who. He knew gohan has always had power inside him something others didnt. Yes, Gohan had SO much power that he was rendered completely HELPLESS against Cell until Vegeta distracted him with a cheap-shot. Lol, keep clinging desperately to that. Eff the other contradictory evidence.

Originally posted by yungz22
When did cell say that? Panels?
http://i.imgur.com/915vv1E.gif

Cell, who had seen SSJ2 Gohan's power firsthand, practically lulz'ed at the notion that Gohan would be able to defeat his Super-Perfect form--I'm guessing his stated "MASSIVE" power increase may have had something to do with that. So yeah, ALL evidence considered(not just your one cherry-picked/out-of-context statement) Akira simply would not have had Cell make such a comment if their powers weren't comparable at that point... Which *should* have already been obvious to anyone with a bit of logical deduction skills, given the evidence I've repeatedly mentioned, but I digress...

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, Gohan had SO much power that he was rendered completely HELPLESS against Cell until Vegeta distracted him with a cheap-shot. Lol, keep clinging desperately to that. Eff the other contradictory evidence.


http://i.imgur.com/915vv1E.gif

Cell, who had seen SSJ2 Gohan's power firsthand, practically lulz'ed at the notion that Gohan would be able to defeat his Super-Perfect form--I'm guessing his stated "MASSIVE" power increase may have had something to do with that. So yeah, ALL evidence considered(not just your one cherry-picked/out-of-context statement) Akira simply would not have had Cell make such a comment if their powers weren't comparable at that point... Which *should* have already been obvious to anyone with a bit of logical deduction skills, given the evidence I've repeatedly mentioned, but I digress...

gohan didnt let all of his energy ut once again goku's statements and gohan's natural character beats your speculation.

Originally posted by yungz22
gohan didnt let all of his energy ut once again goku's statements and gohan's natural character beats your speculation. ...Which doesn't change the fact that Gohan STILL HAD TO WAIT UNTIL CELL WAS DISTRACTED BY VEGETA'S CHEAP-SHOT BEFORE HE RELEASED SAID ENERGY.



What exactly isn't computing here? At this point you're definitely either trolling for the sake of trolling, or you're just an idiot... Or perhaps you're both. Either way, this has become laughably stupid on your part, and made me realize how poor the forums have become. A single cherry-picked/out-of-context line from Goku simply does NOT supersede the handful of contradictory evidence. Frankly, you're terrible at this.

Originally posted by Galan007
...Which doesn't change the fact that Gohan STILL HAD TO WAIT UNTIL CELL WAS DISTRACTED BY VEGETA'S CHEAP-SHOT BEFORE HE RELEASED SAID ENERGY.



What exactly isn't computing here? At this point you're definitely either trolling for the sake of trolling, or you're just an idiot... Or perhaps you're both. Either way, this has become laughably stupid on your part, and made me realize how poor the forums have become. A single cherry-picked/out-of-context line from Goku simply does NOT supersede the handful of contradictory evidence. Frankly, you're terrible at this.


i never said he didnt. my whole point from the beginning is that if gohan was at full power from the beginning based on gohan being at half strength, goku's statements, and the the beam struggle that cell would have died much faster.


your disregarding gohan's handicap against spc

Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, I like how you only use this line of argumentation when it suits your case, but tried to completely ignore it the several times I mentioned it.

Fact is: you've no PROOF that SPC was weaker than SSJ2 Gohan. None at all. You're simply presenting personal conjecture, and trying to sell it as fact. Doesn't work that way.

When Cell WAS harmed by weaker characters, we knew, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that they WERE weaker than himself. No illogical guesstimations were required. The same CANNOT be said about SPC in comparison to SSJ2 Gohan, however--by all accounts they were nigh-equals. That is why your logic fails here.

I'm not ignoring anything. You said something and I agreed with you.

There is no proof either way here. That's why it's open for debate

But because weaker guys CAN hurt stronger guys then when guy Ahurt guy B you cannot use that evidence alone to say A>B.

For the record me and Galan debated this about a year ago and I was originally under the impression that Gohan was still much more powerful than SPC and was only hindered because of the damage Cell did to his arm.

Galan kicked my ass in that debate and changed my mind.

I still think it's a good topic open for debate but now I believe they were very close in power. I understand when other people see it differently and will play devil's advocate(like I'm doing now) from time to time.

Now with all that said I have DEFINITIVE PROOF(speculation at best but entertaining nonetheless) Gohan was much more powerful than SPC and it was Gohna's own fear that hindered him, not Cell's pitiful power!!!!

Coming soon....

Originally posted by yungz22
your disregarding gohan's handicap against spc No, I'm not. I've acknowledged it several times, in fact. However, what you have yet to acknowledge is the FACT that Cell was TOYING with Gohan prior to being distracted by Vegeta(both the manga AND anime solidify this.) If Gohan were truly capable of pwning Cell at any given moment via releasing all of his power(as you're claiming), then HE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO WAIT UNTIL CELL WAS DISTRACTED BY VEGETA'S CHEAP-SHOT BEFORE 'MAKING HIS MOVE'.

ALL evidence considered, I think it's pretty clear that SPC~SSJ2 Gohan(healthy)>SSJ2 Gohan(injured).

Originally posted by juggerman
I'm not ignoring anything. You said something and I agreed with you.

There is no proof either way here. That's why it's open for debate

But because weaker guys CAN hurt stronger guys then when guy Ahurt guy B you cannot use that evidence alone to say A>B. Look who I quoted when I made that post--it wasn't directed at you.

Originally posted by Galan007
No, I'm not. I've acknowledged it several times, in fact. However, what you have yet to acknowledge is the FACT that Cell was TOYING with Gohan prior to being distracted by Vegeta(both the manga AND anime solidify this.) If Gohan were truly capable of pwning Cell at any given moment via releasing all of his power(as you're claiming), then HE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO WAIT UNTIL CELL WAS DISTRACTED BY VEGETA'S CHEAP-SHOT BEFORE 'MAKING HIS MOVE'.

ALL evidence considered, I think it's pretty clear that SPC~SSJ2 Gohan(healthy)>SSJ2 Gohan(injured).

Look who I quoted when I made that post--it wasn't directed at you.


Dude if you cut anyone or anythings power in half you should be able to over power. For example when buutenks power got halved because the fusion wore off goku said the fusion was no longer needed because he could beat him now. 50% power loss is very drastic.

You act as if their was no beam struggle. Sure cell was winning but it wasnt a stonp that you make it seem to be. That goes to show that if gohan was full powered he may be able to win. Also goku's statements are backed by gohan's natural nature and him never being wrong about who can beat who.

Originally posted by yungz22
Dude if you cut anyone or anythings power in half you should be able to over power. For example when buutenks power got halved because the fusion wore off goku said the fusion was no longer needed because he could beat him now. 50% power loss is very drastic. After the fusion wore off, Goku stated that GOHAN could beat Buu by himself--which makes sense, given Gohan's performance against Super Buu. SSJ3 Goku, however, was FAR inferior to Super Buu(Goku himself stated as much.)

I say again: don't mention DBZ 'facts', if you're not sure they're *actual* facts. Makes you look dumb(er).

Originally posted by yungz22
You act as if their was no beam struggle. Sure cell was winning but it wasnt a stonp that you make it seem to be. That goes to show that if gohan was full powered he may be able to win. Also goku's statements are backed by gohan's natural nature and him never being wrong about who can beat who. SPC wasn't 'struggling' AT ALL--you're mistaking him TOYING with Gohan, for struggling.

At this point, I'm positive that you cannot comprehend in-story context--and if you CAN, you simply ignore it when it doesn't suit your case. You're actually a pretty decent troll.

If you're too lazy to read that whole thing here's the jist:

Broly wins!

Originally posted by Galan007
After the fusion wore off, Goku stated that GOHAN could beat Buu by himself--which makes sense, given Gohan's performance against Super Buu. SSJ3 Goku, however, was FAR inferior to Super Buu(Goku himself stated as much.)

I say again: don't mention DBZ 'facts', if you're not sure they're *actual* facts. Makes you look dumb(er).

SPC wasn't 'struggling' AT ALL--you're mistaking him TOYING with Gohan, for struggling.

At this point, I'm positive that you cannot comprehend in-story context--and if you CAN, you simply ignore it when it doesn't suit your case. You're actually a pretty decent troll.


He wasnt toying with him cell specifically siad he was done playing and was gonna finish them there once and for all he was going all out theres nothing that suggests cell was toying with gohan

you should go back and look while goku was ssj3 fighting super buu when the gotenks fusion wore off goku specifically said "you dont plan to beat me like that do you?

Originally posted by yungz22
you should go back and look while goku was ssj3 fighting super buu when the gotenks fusion wore off goku specifically said "you dont plan to beat me like that do you? This was not stated in the manga, therefore it is non-canon anime filler. Here's the whole scene:
http://i.imgur.com/ZittUG7.gif
http://i.imgur.com/tR0xfCa.gif
http://i.imgur.com/GQGg42W.gif
http://i.imgur.com/KWWKJng.gif

Like I said above: don't mention DBZ 'facts', if you're not sure they're *actual* facts. Makes you look even dumber.

Per the manga, Goku alone was still FAR weaker than Super Buu:
http://i.imgur.com/VDEKIs7.gif

Canon>you.


Also, I ignored the Cell BS you spewed, because frankly, it's idiotic.

Originally posted by Galan007
This was not stated in the manga, therefore it is non-canon anime filler. Here's the whole scene:
http://i.imgur.com/ZittUG7.gif
http://i.imgur.com/tR0xfCa.gif
http://i.imgur.com/GQGg42W.gif
http://i.imgur.com/KWWKJng.gif

Like I said above: don't mention DBZ 'facts', if you're not sure they're *actual* facts. Makes you look even dumber.

Per the manga, Goku alone was still FAR weaker than Super Buu:
http://i.imgur.com/VDEKIs7.gif

Canon>you.


Also, I ignored the Cell BS you spewed, because frankly, it's idiotic.

how is it idiotic did cell not state that he was done playing around?

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3064-14/dragon-ball/chapter-415.html

Originally posted by yungz22
how is it idiotic did cell not state that he was done playing around?

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3064-14/dragon-ball/chapter-415.html Yeah, I could buy that.... IF Cell didn't say THIS several pages later:
http://i.imgur.com/1SiSL7B.jpg

...Which tells us that he WAS holding back and therefore TOYING with Gohan. Simple.

And the very next page is when Vegeta delivers his cheap-shot blast, which distracted Cell and gave Gohan the window he needed to gain the upper hand.


And a huge LOL @ you blatantly ignoring my Buu post. You were so confident with your stance until I crushed it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I could buy that.... IF Cell didn't say THIS several pages later:
http://i.imgur.com/1SiSL7B.jpg

...Which tells us that he WAS holding back and therefore TOYING with Gohan. Simple.

And the very next page is when Vegeta delivers his cheap-shot blast, which gives Gohan the window he needed to gain the upper hand.


And a huge LOL @ you blatantly ignoring my Buu post. You were so confident with your stance until I crushed it.


ok thats fine i didnt look at he manga buu part you want a cookie... how does that change the fac that goku has never been wrong about a fight or that someone at half strength is not a handicap in cells favor.

saying im going to finish you now then powering up and releasing a blast then then saying this is the end in no way and releasing that attacks final burst of energy shape or form is toying around.

Originally posted by yungz22
ok thats fine i didnt look at he manga buu part you want a cookie... I don't like cookies, but thanks anyway.

I'm just glad you finally admitted that you were WAY off with one of your points. That's progress.

Originally posted by yungz22
saying im going to finish you now then powering up and releasing a blast then then saying this is the end in no way shape or form toying around Lol, wut..?

Cell's statement tells us that he had been HOLDING BACK up until that point(ie. toying with Gohan) and was about to stop dicking around and kill him outright--but Vegeta intervened immediately afterward, subsequently saving Gohan's ass. Said statement literally cannot be interpreted any other way, no matter how you try and twist it.

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't like cookies, but thanks anyway.

I'm just glad you finally admitted that you were WAY off with one of your points. That's progress.

Lol, wut..?

Cell's statement tells us that he had been HOLDING BACK up until that point(ie. toying with Gohan) and was about to stop dicking around and kill him outright until Vegeta intervened. It literally cannot be interpreted any other way, no matter how you try and twist it.

im not way off with anything. fine ill use a different example since the dialogue was "filler" if you at max strength can bench 300lbs then all of a sudden one day your sick and can only lift 150lbs. thats half strength and a significant loss in power. another person who could lift 280lbs would beat you in a competition of strength that day why you ask? because your at 50% strength you were handicapped. normally you would beat him if you were at full strength but because you were handicapped and unable to tap into your full strength youd lose.

50% power loss is drastic in every facet of life whether it be you car engine all the way to the hiroshima nuke

dude he liteally said he was going to end this quickly shoots the kamehameha and then says this is the end while he hes beating gohan that in no way shape or form is playing around.... your the one twisting his words and adding spec to what the man is saying.

Originally posted by yungz22
im not way off with anything. fine ill use a different example since the dialogue was "filler" if you at max strength can bench 300lbs then all of a sudden one day your sick and can only lift 150lbs. thats half strength and a significant loss in power. another person who could lift 280lbs would beat you in a competition of strength that day why you ask? because your at 50% strength you were handicapped. normally you would beat him if you were at full strength but because you were handicapped and unable to tap into your full strength youd lose.

50% power loss is drastic in every facet of life whether it be you car engine all the way to the hiroshima nuke You implied that SSJ3 Goku could beat Super Buu. You were WRONG. Admit that your 'analogy' was laughably faulty and move on. Stop trying to save face.

Originally posted by yungz22
dude he liteally said he was going to end this quickly shoots the kamehameha and then says this is the end while he hes beating gohan that in no way shape or form is playing around.... your the one twisting his words and adding spec to what the man is saying. You're still ignoring the page I posted(which came AFTER the page you mentioned) in which Cell outright tells us that he was done phucking around.
http://i.imgur.com/1SiSL7B.jpg

Not surprised you're ignoring evidence AGAIN. You've literally done so since post #1 in this thread. It's just funny(in a sad kind of way) at this point.

Originally posted by Galan007
You implied that SSJ3 Goku could beat Buu. You were WRONG. Admit that your 'analogy' was laughably faulty and move on. Stop trying to save face.

Again you're ignoring the page I posted(which came AFTER the page you mentioned) in which Cell outright tells us that he was done phucking around.
http://i.imgur.com/1SiSL7B.jpg

Not surprised you're ignoring evidence. You've literally done so since post #1 in this thread. Troll is troll I suppose.

the ananlogy was worng because it wasnt in the manga i thought ssj3 goku could beat buu becasue of word goku said in the manga thats irrelavent becasue i was using that instance as a comparision to gohan losing power against cell. since the goku thing was worng because of a technicality i just showed you a different exapmle that show can be compared to gohan and cell.

if me and you are playing a basketballl game of 21 and you say "im gonna finish this now" and then you drop 20pts straight and on the last point you say "this is the end." that doesnt mean you are playing around in fact its the exact opposite.
cell said im gonna finish this now shot the kamehameha and was about to kill gohan and said this is the end that is not playing around.

lemme ask you a question so what your saying is cell words are inconsistant?

Originally posted by yungz22
leem ask you a question so what your saying is cell words are inconsistant? New info supersedes old info--that's just how fiction in general works(especially when a character makes contradictory claims.)

That said, Cell may have originally claimed that he was going to 'finish off' Gohan(your page), BUT we found out several pages later(my page) that he was actually holding back the entire--as THAT was when he finally decided to stop playing around, and was going to kill Gohan... Then Vegeta intervened, thus saving Gohan's life.

So again, Cell's last word on the subject tells us that he had been HOLDING BACK and TOYING with Gohan up to that point. Cell's final statement on the matter=the most canon statement on the matter.

Originally posted by Galan007
New info supersedes old info--that's just how fiction in general works(especially when a character makes contradictory claims.)

That said, Cell may have originally claimed that he was going to 'finish off' Gohan(your page), BUT we found out several pages later(my page) that he was actually holding back the entire--as THAT was when he finally decided to stop playing around, and was going to kill Gohan... Then Vegeta intervened, thus saving Gohan's life.

So again, Cell's last word on the subject tells us that he had been HOLDING BACK and TOYING with Gohan up to that point. Cell's final statement on the matter=the most canon statement on the matter.

Cell never said he was holding back so you cant just say hes holding back especially if the two sentences are spoken within such a short amount of time and within the same movement that makes no sense. Your just adding your speculation to it

Which is what you're doing by saying Gohan was 1. At half power, and 2. Holding back against Cell, even though he stated himself that he wasn't.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Which is what you're doing by saying Gohan was 1. At half power, and 2. Holding back against Cell, even though he stated himself that he wasn't.



So gohan wasnt at half power?

Originally posted by yungz22
Cell never said he was holding back so you cant just say hes holding back especially if the two sentences are spoken within such a short amount of time and within the same movement that makes no sense. Your just adding your speculation to it "WELL, THIS IS THE END. I'M GOING TO FINISH YOU NOW!"

Yes, that statement incontrovertibly tells us Cell WAS holding back against/toying with Gohan, up to that point. Your inability to recognize SIMPLE literary concepts is truly astounding. facepalm

Originally posted by Galan007
"WELL, THIS IS THE END. I'M GOING TO FINISH YOU NOW!"

Yes, that statement incontrovertibly tells us Cell WAS holding back against/toying with Gohan, up to that point. Your inability to recognize SIMPLE literary concepts is truly astounding. facepalm


so cell's words are inconsistent then?

Inconsistency has nothing to do with it. I mentioned why above.

Another good example is when Goku originally told us that he couldn't have beaten Fat Buu as a SSJ3. However, we learned later on in the story that he could have effortlessly shit-stomped Fat Buu at any point, if he really wanted to... It is the EXACT same case with SPC/Gohan in that regard.

So again: new info supersedes old info. That's just how fiction in general works--especially when a character makes contradictory claims.

Originally posted by Galan007
Inconsistency has nothing to do with it. I mentioned why above.

Another good example is when Goku originally told us that he couldn't have beaten Fat Buu as a SSJ3. However, we learned later on in the story that he could have effortlessly shit-stomped Fat Buu at any point, if he really wanted to... It is the EXACT same case with SPC/Gohan in that regard.

So again: new info supersedes old info. That's just how fiction in general works--especially when a character makes contradictory claims.


ok so thats a yes cell's words are inconsistent thus taking away the credibility of his words his.

goku's words have been the most consistant troughout the entire show hesnever been wrong about who can beat who. If he says gohan can beat cell then that must be the case based on goku's statements, all the evidence that galan posted that you disregarded, and gohan's natural timid nature and hate for destruction.

goku couldnt stomp fat buu but its def possible that he could have beat him when did he ever deny that he could beat buu. he just wanted the other z fighters to take care of him.

Originally posted by yungz22
ok so thats a yes cell's words are inconsistent thus taking away the credibility of his words his.

goku's words have been the most consistant troughout the entire show hesnever been wrong about who can beat who. If he says gohan can beat cell then that must be the case based on goku's statements, all the evidence that galan posted that you disregarded, and gohan's natural timid nature and hate for destruction. More trollish ignoring of evidence. I've come to expect nothing less from you.

Another @ your self-ownage. You realize I'm Galan, right?

Originally posted by yungz22
when did he ever deny that he could beat buu. Goku originally stated that he couldn't beat Fat Buu, on TWO separate occasions:
http://i.imgur.com/GRXfF8d.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://i.imgur.com/VDMQ7vO.gif



It was only toward the end of the saga that we learned he actually could've stomped Fat Buu:
http://i.imgur.com/feeywMs.gif


The EXACT same literary logic applies to the SPC/Gohan statements. Cell may have originally said that he was going to 'finish' Gohan, but as he clarified a few pages later upon saying: "WELL, THIS IS THE END. I'M GOING TO FINISH YOU NOW!", he was actually holding back and toying with Gohan up until that point. Simple logic is simple.

Originally posted by Galan007
More trollish ignoring of evidence. I've come to expect nothing less from you.

Another @ your self-ownage. You realize I'm Galan, right?

Goku originally stated that he couldn't beat Fat Buu, on TWO separate occasions:
http://i.imgur.com/GRXfF8d.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://i.imgur.com/VDMQ7vO.gif



It was only toward the end of the saga that we learned he actually could've stomped Fat Buu:
http://i.imgur.com/feeywMs.gif


The EXACT same literary logic applies to the SPC/Gohan statements. Cell may have originally said that he was going to 'finish' Gohan, but as he clarified a few pages later upon saying: "WELL, THIS IS THE END. I'M GOING TO FINISH YOU NOW!", he was actually holding back and toying with Gohan up until that point. Simple logic is simple.

Oh ok i havent read the manga in a while so somethings are a lil blurry


The thing is goku using his words stated that he held back on purpose and why he did he wanted the others to fight buu..... Cell on the other hand has never stated that he held back therefore you cant say he was holding back. He said he was going to finish them off and in the mists of doing so he said this is the end. That doesnt suggest he was holding back if while during the process of finish them of in one action hes letting them no that he won.


Also how does this prove that goku had ever been wrong about who could beat who

Originally posted by Galan007
"WELL, THIS IS THE END. I'M GOING TO FINISH YOU NOW!"

Yes, that statement incontrovertibly tells us Cell WAS holding back against/toying with Gohan, up to that point. Your inability to recognize SIMPLE literary concepts is truly astounding. facepalm

Originally posted by Galan007



In you context it does but thats only because you alterd it with your speculation. There is nothing that suggest cell was toying around.


Unless cell tells us the reasoning behind his words you cant just decide what his intentions were.


Goku told us his intentions and why he says the things he said cell however did not.

Again just because he said this is the end doesnt automatically mean that he was toying with gohan especially since he said he was going to finish them off literally a minute before....

Cell said he was going to finish this off then shoots kamehameha and while he is winning and just before hes about to kill them all he says this is the end. Thats not toying around.

If me and you are in a race, a fight, a sporting even anything competitive really, and i say im done playing around with you im about to win this and then just before i win ,whether it be racing fighting or anything else i say this is the end that does not mean i was toying with you. In fact it bolsters the fact that i was done toying with you and letting you know that its over right before its over.

If cell wanted to toy around with them he wouldve beat the shit out of them and tortured them the same way frieza toyed with vegeta.

Originally posted by yungz22
In you context it does but thats only because you alterd it with your speculation. There is nothing that suggest cell was toying around.Lol, I didn't alter a thing. I have repeatedly quoted Cell's statement WORD FOR WORD and broken down for you exactly what it means IN CONTEXT OF THE STORY, because you seem to have great difficulty grasping BASIC literary concepts(you've made this clear with nearly every post you've spewed.) YOU are the one who continues to IGNORE the MULTIPLE pieces of evidence I have provided, and incessantly/childishly revert back to a SINGLE cherry-picked line from Goku, of which you have taken WAY out of context... But somehow I'M the one 'altering' things?
hysterical

Tbh, all you have done thus far is try and dodge, deflect, ignore, and red-herring your way through this 'debate'. You are terrible at this, truly... Possibly the worst. I have never crushed someone THIS thoroughly, though, so thank you for that.


Anyway, your BS has become far too stupid/circular to carry my interest any longer. You may have the last word you so desperately crave. I'm done with you.

I'm curious if Galan can even eat after this debate, if I recall correctly "slow" people make him lose his appetite.

http://i62.tinypic.com/1219yrs.jpg

It's the visual of them that sickens me, so I should be safe.

Actually yungz is kinda right it literally makes no sense to say that cell was playing even tho he said he was done playing around and was about to finish gohan off rather quickly its not like the beam struggle lasted for a long time or anything. Cell was handling business rather adamantly its just that gohan's fear inhibited his ability to tap into his power.

First off, you're wrong. Look at the statements again, genius.

Secondly, be quiet, we all know you're a sock.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
First off, you're wrong. Look at the statements again, genius.

Secondly, be quiet, we all know you're a sock.

what are you talking about once again theres no need for the insults. I actually disagree with yungz about gohan being able to beat cell at that point. Only thing i agree with him about is that cell was def not holding back.


If gohan was at full strength however i do think he would have beaten cell. During the clash gohan although losing very badly still held his own at half strength and one arm.

I can see where yungz is coming from. Say you are arm wrestling someone, which is relatable to the beam struggle. You say before it starts "not playing around" and then right as you are about to win you say "I'm going to end this now".

But Galan's argument makes perfect sense as well. I think this is a time when it can be taken either way.

See, I'm totally fine with that opinion. It's the blatant ignoring of facts that I had a problem with.

Originally posted by Galan007
See, I'm totally fine with that opinion. It's the blatant ignoring of facts that I had a problem with.

Like you ignoring the FEAR!!!!!

xHa3D-musUw

And him ignoring someone who has never been wrong throughout the entire series words(goku)

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Which is what you're doing by saying Gohan was 1. At half power, and 2. Holding back against Cell, even though he stated himself that he wasn't.

I wouldn't hold Gohan's opinion so high. He didn't even realize he was stronger than Goku in the time room or at the Cell Games.