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Raskta is unamped

Force sabers all out

Battle takes place on neutral ground

Lsu

Yea, Lsu. Vos doesn't do much force, and sabers alone isn't enough.

Let's get this over with shall we?

Ahem. Raskta's only dueling feat is against Bane, someone who has only beaten his opponents due to either having the advantage or drawing on a Nexus. Bane's only real dueling feat was defeating a student and a weak Battle-Master. Blah blah blah, ignore real feats, blah blah blah Contradict myself by saying "Bane sux cuz he lost to Zannah" when earlier i said "Zannah sux cuz she was losing to Bane" and then end the argument with a Pathetic one line such as "(Insert name here) SLAUGHTERHOUSE and/or (insert Name here) Ragdolls Bane"

There, that should pretty much sum up the points that Carthage will attempt to make, if questioned about his reason for believing Vos>Ventress.

On a side note, anyone know when the Ventress/Vos novel is coming out?

I never said Bane sucks because he lost to Zannah, if you ever bothered reading my post as in Ants Zannah runs a gauntlet thread I said he was stronger. I made that determination after relistening to the audiobook fight. Anyway either post on topic or go pollute another thread with your nonsense.

And Ventress has nothing to do with this fight

Originally posted by carthage
Anyway either post on topic or go pollute another thread with your nonsense.

Contradicted yourself a lot of times boo.

Also. I'm the one that pollute threads? Good one pumpkin, anyway. Lsu wins, it's a good fight though.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Contradicted yourself a lot of times boo.

Also. I'm the one that pollute threads? Good one pumpkin, anyway. Lsu wins, it's a good fight though.

You must not be very smart, Ive stated Bane >Zannah in over three threads now, even more recently on the Bane vs Kenobi thread. Zannahs victory was entirely circumstantial and he wouldve won if the fight took place on neutral ground, again this is all stuff Ive said before. None of this has anything to do with the thread

Lsu seems like the better duelist on-paper, but Vos seems to have better actual feats. Vos also seems to be the more powerful Force User, and he does use telekinesis from time to time - enough to afford him a winning edge. I'll take Vos, I guess.

Vos uses tk so rarely that I can't see it giving him an edge. Raskta may have almost no force, but she does fight those with. If someone has only a little force offense, she's unlikely to give an opening.

And I think pressing a dark lord like Bane hard, and having hundreds of sith kills, trumps what Vos has done.

He used it against Aayla Secura and K'kruhk when he was appropriately angry, he's used it against groups of Anzati, an ARC trooper, he beat Villie up with it a couple of times, and probably others.

Most other times he's had an opportunity to utilise it, there's been circumstance that would make it impossible or highly difficult. I.e, against a bloodlusted Aayla, he was holding back on her and he was too calm to start dishing out telekinesis. Against Bulq, Windu, Krakko and Dooku, they'd be too powerful for him to find success. Against the pair of Morgukai, he was being pressed by them both simultaneously and he was injured at the time, against Tholme he was deliberately trying to subdue him with his cortosis gauntlets, and so on. I'd say while it isn't his forte, he has shown a certain affinity for it, and just hasn't been given the appropriate environment to use it. It's not his go-to but it could help him here and there.

Hundreds of Sith who have accomplished what, exactly? Bane being a Dark Lord alone doesn't do much for his dueling skill - that's a title, not a dueling accolade. Bane is a competent duelist, but he isn't as skilled as Vos, who's comfortably floating around a tier 7 for me.

People really seem to hate Bane around here but anyways..

Lsu wins, if hitting her with TK was all it took to kill her she would have been dead looooooong ago, however she is credited with hundreds of Sith kills.

Unless you people are trying to tell me that every single one of those Sith are just weaksauce noobs that can't use any TK at all, then LOL.

In sabers Lsu wins every time, no matter how much I like Vos.

It really just comes to how much stock you put into assumptions. We could assume those hundred odd Sith were worth their salt in a fight but who actually knows? And nobody said all it would take is a bit of TK to down her. But having the advantage isn't a bad thing, and to me the quality of a feat is far more important than the quantity. Vos' dueling feats > Lsu's.

Side note: I don't hate Bane. I have no reason to. I haven't even read the Bane trilogy yet but I intend to.

I assume most of those were probably your red shirt Brotherhood Sith however I imagine she came across some genuinely strong Sith as well, it'd be ludicrous to assume that not one of them were a good fight.

You don't have to assume that they were all either noobs or total badasses, just find some moderation with a tip of logic.

This is the biggest problem with KMC, unless it's a major blank statement of a feat everyone just auto-assumes that it was featless nameless red shirts with the ability to lift a rock.

Personally I'll never subscribe to that kind of logic.

P.S this is not a rant at you I am just tired of seeing that kind of lowballing.

I can understand your way of thinking, mate, and it does make sense. And it's not like it's implausible for Lsu to be a better duelist than Vos. But I just don't put stock into something I'm not sure of, because that way things get unnecessarily convoluted and unreliable.

Originally posted by ILS
Side note: I don't hate Bane. I have no reason to. I haven't even read the Bane trilogy yet but I intend to.

You ought to read it, a few of my best friends made me respect Bane more than Wookieepedia every did(Not that it was ever a good source to begin with, but hey i was noob then) and Now I'm reading Path Of Destruction and I highly recommend it.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
You ought to read it, a few of my best friends made me respect Bane more than Wookieepedia every did(Not that it was ever a good source to begin with, but hey i was noob then) and Now I'm reading Path Of Destruction and I highly recommend it.
Yeah, it seems like essential EU reading. Have a feeling I'll like Bane a lot as a character.

Definitely Karpyshyn in his prime.

Lsu takes him.

Lsu

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lsu wins, if hitting her with TK was all it took to kill her she would have been dead looooooong ago, however she is credited with hundreds of Sith kills.

Unless you people are trying to tell me that every single one of those Sith are just weaksauce noobs that can't use any TK at all, then LOL.

In sabers Lsu wins every time, no matter how much I like Vos.

Originally posted by ILS
Hundreds of Sith who have accomplished what, exactly? Bane being a Dark Lord alone doesn't do much for his dueling skill - that's a title, not a dueling accolade. Bane is a competent duelist, but he isn't as skilled as Vos, who's comfortably floating around a tier 7 for me.

Orbalisk Bane is such a more deadly swordsman than Vos that it is actually hilarious. And Lsu is greatly more skilled as a duelist than him. She beats Vos in sabers 10/10.

And Lsu seriously isn't as weak as people think. Even Bane, who is unfathomably more powerful than a mediocre force user like Vos would have only killed her due to her hitting the wall. She isn't so easy to beat that anyone decent can just push her around.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Orbalisk Bane is such a more deadly swordsman than Vos that it is actually hilarious. And Lsu is greatly more skilled as a duelist than him. She beats Vos in sabers 10/10.

And Lsu seriously isn't as weak as people think. Even Bane, who is unfathomably more powerful than a mediocre force user like Vos would have only killed her due to her hitting the wall. She isn't so easy to beat that anyone decent can just push her around.
Would you care to post Bane's best dueling feats? Then I can match them up with Vos'. Bare in mind I'm lacking context because I haven't read the Bane trilogy yet, so you may need to go into detail.
Edit: Actually yeah, Orbalisk Bane is more deadly than Vos. But that's more due to stats than raw skill. And it all depends on exactly how well Lsu did against that version of Bane, unless she has other feats.

Vos is "more skilled" than Orb Bane, sure.


.... Because Bane doesn't even need to use skill with the orbalisks and just bullrushes everything. His raw stats and almost complete protection make him unbelievably deadly in this incarnation even without much refinement in his style. As Zannah described it, his technique was simple and brutish, but unarguably very effective. And it's not as if Bane isn't actually a master duelist, his skill was actually extremely vast and advanced. He was just more effective by relying on his armor and brute force than going for anything fancy.

Raskta managing to do so well against such a complete monster speaks highly about her abilities.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vos is "more skilled" than Orb Bane, sure.


.... Because Bane doesn't even need to use skill with the orbalisks and just bullrushes everything. His raw stats and almost complete protection make him unbelievably deadly in this incarnation even without much refinement in his style. As Zannah described it, his technique was simple and brutish, but unarguably very effective. And it's not as if Bane isn't actually a master duelist, his skill was actually extremely vast and advanced. He was just more effective by relying on his armor and brute force than going for anything fancy.

Raskta managing to do so well against such a complete monster speaks highly about her abilities.
When did I say Vos was more skilled than any version of Bane? All I said was that haven't read the books and would like to compare feats.

Well how well exactly did she do, and how did the Orbalisks amp Bane? IIRC they increased his general stats as well as gave him regeneration. I can understand where you're coming from if his physicals went through the roof with the orbalisks, but if the amp wasn't substantial, then I'd assume at face value that Lsu fought someone who was relying on pure power and not skill. If that did end up being the case, and she still lost anyway, I'd need to vouch for Vos' skill against hers still.

Originally posted by ILS
Bane is a competent duelist, but he isn't as skilled as Vos, who's comfortably floating around a tier 7 for me.



I'll reply to the other bit when I can not be lazy (never maybe).

LOL I'm such a dunce. Yeah I kind of forgot about posting that last night. That's my initial opinion on the matter but I'm open to having it changed.

Bane does not lack skill with the orbalisks, he just doesn't use defensive measures to protect anything but his head.

Originally posted by ILS
Well how well exactly did she do, and how did the Orbalisks amp Bane? IIRC they increased his general stats as well as gave him regeneration. I can understand where you're coming from if his physicals went through the roof with the orbalisks, but if the amp wasn't substantial, then I'd assume at face value that Lsu fought someone who was relying on pure power and not skill. If that did end up being the case, and she still lost anyway, I'd need to vouch for Vos' skill against hers still.

You act as if Bane needs a huge amp to be far deadlier than Vos. He doesn't, in any area. Even without them he would curbstomp Vos. However, he was very deadly with them. Fast enough to appear to wield a dozen lightsabers at once, strong enough to disarm Farfalla in one strike, almost instant regeneration and with near-complete protection from lightsaber strikes which is a massive advantage.

I'll post Raskta's relevant showings in the fight:

Note that everything below is from the perspective of Farfalla and Johun, so when she's moving too quickly for them to see she's moving too quickly for them to see. Note also though that she is amped by Battle Meditation.

"Raska's blue blades flickered too quickly for the eye to see, neutralizing her enemy's initial, wild attack then landing half a dozen lethal blows to his chest and abdomen. But instead of toppling, the big man kept coming, never even breaking stride. He would have plowed straight into Raskta, trampling her under his heavy boots, had she not cartwheeled to the side at the last possible instant."

Nice speed, blocking Bane's attack and landing a dozen on him before he could run through her lightsaber range and bowl her over.

"Farfalla saw the Sith Lord turn toward him, sensing the intervention that had saved Raskta's life. Bane unleashed a barrage of Sith lightning, gathering and releasing his power at the speed of thought. The Jedi threw up a Force barrier to shield himself, but the electricity tore right through it and arced toward him. Then suddenly Raskta was there to save his life, repaying a debt that was only a few seconds old as she threw herself in front of him. Fueled by Worror's battle meditation, she switched styles seamlessly, and her arms and blades became a blur as they carved figure eights in the air to catch and absorb the bolts of dark side energy."

Rastka catches individual lightning bolts of a Force Storm.

"He spun back to the fight to see that the Echani Weapons Master had taken the offensive, sending quick flicks of her blue blades toward Bane's unprotected face-the only spot on his body seemingly not covered by the impenetrable shells. Remarkably, Bane was giving ground.

"Stay back!" she shouted at Farfalla. "You'll just get in the way."

Farfalla did as he was told, gathering the energies of the light side to throw up another protective Force barrier should Bane try to unleash his dark side powers against the Echani.

She seemed to be everywhere at once-in front of Bane, beside him, behind him, circling low, leaping to come in high, deflecting his blade with one of her own then stabbing three quick times in succession at his eyes. The big man's head ducked and bobbed, twisting and turning to avoid her blows as he tried to mount a counteroffensive.

Raskta's mastery of her blades was unparalleled, but even with her talents augmented by Worror's battle meditation she wasn't able to land a telling blow on such a small target through Bane's defenses. Still, the ferocity of her new strategy had turned the momentum in her favor ... or so Farfalla thought."

Raskta appears to be in multiple places at once from Farfalla's perspective and her skill is "unparalleled".

"Together the three of them held the Sith Lord at bay: Farfalla on the left flank, Johun on the right, and Raskta in the center. Between blocks and parries they cut and stabbed at his face, their combined efforts finally forcing their enemy into a defensive stance.

The young Jedi marveled at the speed and savagery of Raskta's blades. And while Johun's own clumsy efforts had actually seemed to impede Sarro when they fought side by side, Raskta appeared to thrive off his presence. When he went high, she went low. If he came from the left, she came from the right. It was partly a function of her choice of weapon: individually each of her lightsabers was more precise and accurate than Sarro's giant double blades. But it was more than that. Her reactions were so fast, her combat instincts so pure, that she was able to sense and anticipate what he was going to do even as it happened, then use his attacks to her own advantage."

It takes BM Raskta, Farfalla and Johun to force Bane on the defensive. And Raskta is able to turn even a slow, poor duelist like Johun into an asset through her superior skill and battle prowess.

Raskta didn't lose to Bane, she was backstabbed by Zannah after she'd dispatched her own opponent due to a momentary distraction. Her speed and skill were extraordinary, much greater than Vos' imo. Even accounting for the Battle Meditation.

Also in a comparison with Sarro, Raskta is significantly more skilled than him, despite Sarro being said to have elevated the act of combat to its purest and highest form and being hideously skilled in his own right.