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The deadly lords of the sith empire Vs The dark lord of the sith and his powerful apprentice, Count Dooku.

Lightsabers.

Force Powers.

All-Out.

Location: Dark Temple.

Round 1. No prep for either team.

Round 2. Prep for both teams.

Oh yeah, i'm going there

Team 1 semi-stomp.

IMO this comes down to whether or not Sidious can take Vitiate and Jadus before Malgus can take Dooku.

Interesting fight.

This should technically go to team 1 easily. However, I wouldn't call it spite because we lack info on both Jadus and Vitiate's dueling capabilities. Still though, Jadus is rumored to be second to Emperor himself and what little we know of his powers support that claim. His teleporting skills should be useful too. He could be a very forceful distraction for Sidious while Vitiate charges up a lethal attack and while Malgus fights Dooku.

I don't think any sith/jedi has a chance against a duo like Jadus and Vitiate and I personally rank Malgus just a bit higher than Dooku.

Team 1 gets this.

Edit: With prep, team 1 has even more advantage.

Originally posted by Sinious
This should technically go to team 1 easily. However, I wouldn't call it spite because we lack info on both Jadus and Vitiate's dueling capabilities. Still though, Jadus is rumored to be second to Emperor himself and what little we know of his powers support that claim. His teleporting skills should be useful too. He could be a very forceful distraction for Sidious while Vitiate charges up a lethal attack and while Malgus fights Dooku.

I don't think any sith/jedi has a chance against a duo like Jadus and Vitiate and I personally rank Malgus just a bit higher than Dooku.

Team 1 gets this.

Edit: With prep, team 1 has even more advantage.


SMH

Originally posted by Nephthys
Team 1 semi-stomp.


Quite the opposite, really.

Lmfao @ Jadus being more powerful than Malgus

Anyway team 2 annihilate.

Malgus can't react to the Emperor's speed, and neither can Jadus. Dooku can hold either of them off, and Sidious is better than his TOR clone any day of the year.

Originally posted by carthage
Lmfao @ Jadus being more powerful than Malgus



Second best in the Empire means better than the rest.

Originally posted by Based
Second best in the Empire means better than the rest.

He has no feats to suggest he's more powerful than Agen Kolar let alone Malgus . "2nd most powerful" can mean anything from political power to influence, he has zero feats to suggest he is on Malgus's level.

I don't care for his status, it means nothing.

Originally posted by carthage
Lmfao @ Jadus being more powerful than Malgus

Anyway team 2 annihilate.

Malgus can't react to the Emperor's speed, and neither can Jadus. Dooku can hold either of them off, and Sidious is better than his TOR clone any day of the year.


Putting Sidious on a DS nexus just isn't fair for team 1.

Its not fair for anyone unless you're like 5 or so Powerful sith lords that can fight him at once.

Sidious speed blitz Jadus, then he goes for Vitiate. The fight shouldn't be longer then about 2 mins, and in the same time Dooku should be able to take Malgus' head.

Duo with low or medium difficulty.

Jadus can just teleport out of the way of Sidious. And Dooku isn't beating Malgus.

He wont be able to react in time against Sidious on DS nexus. And Dooku is beating Malgus

Count Dooku can take Malgus.

And Sidious, who would also be amped by the nexus, would utterly waist Vitiate and Jadus. Sidious has produced far greater displays of raw power while off a nexus, and has tanked a force attack from Marek, who had entered a state of oneness with the force. Not to mention, that a dying Palpatine, while on a nexus shrugged off the crushing impact of a ton of machinery, causing the object to disintegrate on contact with his head.

In all seriousness, team 1 has no chance.

Dooku is legitimately one of the most skilled lightsaber duelists in the mythos, by feats, objective statements, accolades, knowledge, technique, experience - everything. Malgus isn't as skilled a duelist as people Dooku has already defeated or fought evenly with. To add to this, their comparatively powerful. Malgus seems to have more potent lightning but not by leaps and bounds, and Dooku seems like he has better telekinetic feats.

Originally posted by ILS
Dooku is legitimately one of the most skilled lightsaber duelists in the mythos, by feats, objective statements, accolades, knowledge, technique, experience - everything. Malgus isn't as skilled a duelist as people Dooku has already defeated or fought evenly with. To add to this, their comparatively powerful. Malgus seems to have more potent lightning but not by leaps and bounds, and Dooku seems like he has better telekinetic feats.

Originally posted by McP
He wont be able to react in time against Sidious on DS nexus. And Dooku is beating Malgus

Riiight, you know that as a Sith Jadus would also benefit from a nexus too, don't you? And Malgus is beating Dooku. He is comfortably above him as a Force user, superior in both TK and lightning and he has those power attacks Dooku oh so loves. If Malgus came at Dooku like he did against Darach, but with his extra 40 years of improved power and skill, could Dooku survive?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Jadus can just teleport out of the way of Sidious. And Dooku isn't beating Malgus.

Hah, no.

Sidious is infinitely faster.

An'ya Kuro can teleport too, Jadus isn't anything special by being able to do that.

And Malgus would lose to Dooku

I can't help but laugh at some of the posts here.

Originally posted by Sinious
I can't help but laugh at some of the posts here.

Same here lol.

Also:

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Putting Sidious on a DS nexus just isn't fair for team 1.

Called it.^

Originally posted by McP
Sidious speed blitz Jadus, then he goes for Vitiate. The fight shouldn't be longer then about 2 mins, and in the same time Dooku should be able to take Malgus' head.

Duo with low or medium difficulty.

Also called it. ^

I believe you owe me a beer Mr. Sinious

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Same here lol.

Also:


Called it.^


Also called it. ^

I believe you owe me a beer Mr. Sinious

It doesn't take a great vision to foresee this idiocity but well done, cheers.

Jadus has huge feats actually, forget the second most powerful quote, that's just hyperbole, his real feats include:

TK so strong he held together a Harrower-class Dreadnought and still had time for constant telepathy.

Effortlessly displaying Fold Space and Force Choke simultaneously.

Dark Side presence so powerful the people around him were genuinely suffering, despite constant exposure to Dromund Kaas.

Every single one of those is a display of extreme power in the Dark Side.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Jadus has huge feats actually, forget the second most powerful quote, that's just hyperbole, his real feats include:

TK so strong he held together a Harrower-class Dreadnought and still had time for constant telepathy.

Effortlessly displaying Fold Space and Force Choke simultaneously.

Dark Side presence so powerful the people around him were genuinely suffering, despite constant exposure to Dromund Kaas.

Every single one of those is a display of extreme power in the Dark Side.

None of those translate into combat feats

Team 2, with relative ease.

Not sure why everyone focusses so much on ridiculous Hyperbole.

Congrats, Jadus can teleport away from a fight like a pussy, he won't be able to use it as an actual offensive move against Sidious. He didn't actually hold a harrower together, so there's that, he just survived.

Sidious would Blitz Jadus like no tomorrow, hate to break it to you but it's true.

Malgus would lose to Dooku, the Count is a far more refined duelist with a lot more skill. He's not weak to kinetic attacks like so many mentally challenged individuals like to say, the whole point of Makashi is refined angular parries that direct blows away.

Also, lol at Malgus being leaps and bounds above him in the force. Someone who effortlessly rips through Skywalker's force barriers time and time again is no mook.

Though yeh, with prep team 1 takes this.

Dooku? Effortlessly rips through Skywalker's force barriers? You sure you didn't mean Kenobi's force barriers?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Dooku? Effortlessly rips through Skywalker's force barriers? You sure you didn't mean Kenobi's force barriers?

Nah, he's force lightning'd Anakin into submission before.

Originally posted by Selenial
Nah, he's force lightning'd Anakin into submission before.
Let's be realistic here. When have force barriers ever blocked force lightning?

Lmfao @ prepped Vitiate beating Sidious

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Let's be realistic here. When have force barriers ever blocked force lightning?

Ahem, here?

Moving out of the center of the ring of converging clones brought him into contact with the third wave, the most cunning he had encountered so far. Long-armed and long-fingered, with blackened, blistering skin, these employed lightning when attacking him, and then by devious means.

They would wait until he was distracted and attack him from behind, or come at him from three directions at once, or even use one of their fellow clones as an impromptu conductor. Deadly currents crackled and sparkled around him, kept barely at bay by the judicious application of a Force shield. Sometimes a lucky strike caused him pain, but he fought through it, found the source, and put the attack quickly to an end.

-- TFU II

That's an example that blocking Lightning with Force Barriers is possible. To be fair, however, Starkiller's shield didn't totally repel Lightning, only its worst effects.

I think he was just being scornful. Shield can block lightning but it seems to be an ineffective method. Plus Anakin wasn't using a full shield here like Galen was.

Originally posted by Selenial
Team 2, with relative ease.

Not sure why everyone focusses so much on ridiculous Hyperbole.

Congrats, Jadus can teleport away from a fight like a pussy, he won't be able to use it as an actual offensive move against Sidious. He didn't actually hold a harrower together, so there's that, he just survived.

Sidious would Blitz Jadus like no tomorrow, hate to break it to you but it's true.

Malgus would lose to Dooku, the Count is a far more refined duelist with a lot more skill. He's not weak to kinetic attacks like so many mentally challenged individuals like to say, the whole point of Makashi is refined angular parries that direct blows away.

Also, lol at Malgus being leaps and bounds above him in the force. Someone who effortlessly rips through Skywalker's force barriers time and time again is no mook.

Though yeh, with prep team 1 takes this.


I don't think Neph actually believes Malgus to be leaps and bounds above Dooku.

A tier, but not leaps and bounds.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A tier, but not leaps and bounds.

Malgus isn't above Dooku full stop. (Period, for you americans)

I'm English.

And yeah he is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm English.

And yeah he is.

Not really, Dooku is infinitely better as lightsaber duelists and nothing Malgus has done will lead me to believe that he's superior enough to negate the Saber side of the duel.

Saying he's infinitely better is obviously hyperbole. Just because Malgus doesn't have all the stupid "one of the best ever" quotes the PT era loves so much doesn't mean he sucks as a duelist. He's in Dooku's league with his strength, speed and durability.

Malgus was comparable to Dooku in the Force before his big power-boost in Deceived. His feats afterwards give him a comfortable lead on the Count i.e. pwning Leneer, smacking around the Strike Team with lightning and/or TK and choking them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A tier, but not leaps and bounds.


He's not above him at all. As ILS pointed out, Malgus might be more potent with lightning, whereas Dooku definitely has superior TK feats, and is a superior duelist based on feats and accolades. Other than Malgus's oneness with the force one-off feat, Dooku is the superior combatant of the 2.

Malgus' oneness with the force wasn't a one-off though, it was permanent.

Can we also not forget that Dooku has superior TK to Yoda? People keep forgetting these kinds of things. Dooku has displayed better TK than Yoda, thus we can judge Dooku's TK from Yoda's feats too... The count isn't one for lavish displays of power, but even without The Yoda comparison he's far outclassed Malgus.

As for lightning, Malgus' feats don't impress me.

Malgus' Strength isn't enough to best the Count if Anakin had his strength matched entirely. Dooku's dexterity and speed also outclass Malgus, he's also an incredibly fluid fighter.

He's Malgus' superior in every way...

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus' oneness with the force wasn't a one-off though, it was permanent.


Oneness with the force has never been permanent. Prove it was permanent.

The only dark sider who achieved complete unity with the dark side was Sidious, which is a different oneness than the state Jacen and Marek momentarily achieved.

"Dooku has superior TK to Yoda"


Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Originally posted by Selenial
Can we also not forget that Dooku has superior TK to Yoda? People keep forgetting these kinds of things. Dooku has displayed better TK than Yoda, thus we can judge Dooku's TK from Yoda's feats too... The count isn't one for lavish displays of power, but even without The Yoda comparison he's far outclassed Malgus.

As for lightning, Malgus' feats don't impress me.

Malgus' Strength isn't enough to best the Count if Anakin had his strength matched entirely. Dooku's dexterity and speed also outclass Malgus, he's also an incredibly fluid fighter.

He's Malgus' superior in every way...


About the Yoda bit--what?

What the **** LMFAO

Originally posted by Nephthys
"Dooku has superior TK to Yoda"


Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Not Prime Yoda, but TCW Yoda, yes.

Those stones Dooku lifted on Sorreno were a reflection of the Muuntur stones, and Dooku lifted them all.

This is something prime Yoda could do, but TCW Yoda (Which is where all his feats are from) couldn't even come halfway to doing it....

The Muuntar stones are lifted while meditating, they don't reflect the persons full concentrated abilities. Yoda punted Sidious across a room, the same Sidious who choked Dooku like a chicken.

What quote is there that makes those stones on Serreno so impressive?

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Muuntar stones are lifted while meditating

Ima stop you there, because no.

"Master Fae, it should be noted, can levitate all six after entering a state of deep meditation."

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What quote is there that makes those stones on Serreno so impressive?

*Shrug* Didn't the episode guide state tonnes of rock?

Either way, ever seen a tonne of rock? It's not a n impressively large amount, and we know that 5 Muuntur stones (Yoda level) weighs 5 tonnes, with all 7 weighing 11....

Dooku Lifted 10 stones all his size, and 8 that were about 3 times larger. Just from a basic physics standpoint that's more than 11 tonnes.

Let's also not forget that the Jedi temple is a nexus...

Originally posted by Nephthys
"Master Fae, it should be noted, can levitate all six after entering a state of deep meditation."

That doesn't say that every Jedi has to meditate.

And on top of that, Meditation enhances a Jedi's power....

Those stones weren't the Muuntar stones

......

Who said they were?

Lifting the Muntuur stones wouldn't even be that impressive by the logic of some very specific people here.

That statement made by Yoda contradicts plenty of his other showings, which are far more impressive.

I'm assuming each of the obelisks were multi-ton each, considering Savage had trouble lifting 2 but shortly after FP a starship.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That statement made by Yoda contradicts plenty of his other showings, which are far more impressive.

I'm assuming each of the obelisks were multi-ton each, considering Savage had trouble lifting 2 but shortly after FP a starship.

Like what?

Honestly, I've never seen any raw TK from Yoda that put him above Dooku's Obelisk lifting cave smashing feats...

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Lifting the Muntuur stones wouldn't even be that impressive by the logic of some very specific people here.

To me the trouble with Muuntur stones for Jedi appears to be the raw power required Combined with the skill needed to keep control of multiple separate tonne weighing monstrosities.

Originally posted by Selenial
To me the trouble with Muuntur stones for Jedi appears to be the raw power required Combined with the skill needed to keep control of multiple separate tonne weighing monstrosities.
That's not what I meant at all. I was referring to a very specific line of thought.

Originally posted by Selenial
Like what?

Honestly, I've never seen any raw TK from Yoda that put him above Dooku's Obelisk lifting cave smashing feats...

"Yoda punted Sidious across a room, the same Sidious who choked Dooku like a chicken."

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's not what I meant at all. I was referring to a very specific line of thought.

Out with it boy!

Originally posted by Selenial
Out with it boy!
The N-word...

Nihilus?

I'm still waiting for "Sidious solos."

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nihilus?
Nexus

Originally posted by Selenial
Like what?

Honestly, I've never seen any raw TK from Yoda that put him above Dooku's Obelisk lifting cave smashing feats...


Destroying 300 meter wide landing crafts by slamming them into each other, which I don't view as an exaggerated feat, considering what his far inferiors can do with TK. As Neph pointed out, hurling Sidious, whom Dooku is miles below in terms of TK, across his office. Yes, I realize that it's common for less powerful force users to tag their superiors with FPs, but the one Yoda used on Sidious was potent enough that Sidious reconsidered doing battle with him, suggesting that Sidious found Yoda's TK to be very threatening to him. Then there's the fact that Yoda has dominated Ventress with TK with less effort than Dooku has, and then shortly after, catching/completely stoping an avalanche of a bunch of free falling huge boulders with ease, and then redirecting them (which should be a more impressive feat itself than lifting all those stones, considering the speed in which they were falling).

Originally posted by Nalaniel
I'm still waiting for "Sidious solos."

Most of the PT wankers believe that would be the case.

Originally posted by Nalaniel
I'm still waiting for "Sidious solos."

Sidious solos.

Originally posted by Selenial
Out with it boy!

He has a consummate fear of Force Nexuses because Bane can't collapse temples without them like Vader can.

Bane is a nexus junkie

Originally posted by Selenial
Can we also not forget that Dooku has superior TK to Yoda? People keep forgetting these kinds of things. Dooku has displayed better TK than Yoda, thus we can judge Dooku's TK from Yoda's feats too... The count isn't one for lavish displays of power, but even without The Yoda comparison he's far outclassed Malgus.

Anyway, the lunacy of Dooku > Yoda aside theres no evidence for Dooku far outclassing Malgus. That's stupid. One of Dooku's best feats, lifting those obelisks, is (at least) matched by Malgus when he lifted and threw a mountain of rubble from two large buildings while injured. And then heavily implied that he could overpower the Jedi who had collapsed those two buildings on top of him in TK. Malgus has also held back Zeerid's shuttle from taking off with a force pull hard enough to make the engine whine, before eventually being overpowered. A great feat equal to any of Dooku's in my book. And he's tossed around Satele, Zallow and Aryn, all of whom are highly impressive TK masters. And all of these were before his increase in power in Deceived btw. After that, his feats of tossing around the strike team and choking several of them at once are well above Dooku's feats.

Originally posted by Selenial
As for lightning, Malgus' feats don't impress me.

He impresses me a lot more than Dooku does. Overpowering the defenses of a very powerful Jedi and still having enough power to burn holes in his chest is a great display of power. As is killing 3 Jedi in a single blast and bringing the Imperial Strike Team to it's knees with lightning in TOR. He's better than Dooku by a ways yet again.

And he can combine TK and lightning in the Force Maelstrom.

Originally posted by Selenial
Malgus' Strength isn't enough to best the Count if Anakin had his strength matched entirely. Dooku's dexterity and speed also outclass Malgus, he's also an incredibly fluid fighter.

Dooku never matched Anakin's strength entirely imo. And Malgus doesn't use extensive dexterity since he's a Djem So practitioner. Though he has demonstrated that he is quite dextrous jumping over attacks, rolling, performing quick turns. He's quicker on his feet than you'd think. And he's got great durability. It would take a lot of hits for Dooku to beat him.

Originally posted by Selenial
He's Malgus' superior in every way...

No, he's not.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Oneness with the force has never been permanent. Prove it was permanent.

The only dark sider who achieved complete unity with the dark side was Sidious, which is a different oneness than the state Jacen and Marek momentarily achieved.

He still had it at least several days after his fight with Aryn. After their fight he was reassigned to the Unknown Regions, but he snuck away and made his way to kill Adraas. So some length of time had clearly occurred, enough for him to get off Coruscant, bury his wife, go to his new post and then sneak off and kill Adraas. He also mentions that his new understanding of the Force uncreased daily.

What about this suggests his amp with temporary?

"Thinking of Eleena blew oxygen on the embers of his anger. In life, Eleena had been his weakness, a tool to be exploited by rivals. In death, she had become his strength, her memory the lens of his rage.

He resided in the calm eye of a storm of hate. Power churned around him, within him. He did not feel as if he were drawing on the Force, using it. He felt as if he were the Force, as if he had merged with it.

He had evolved. Nothing split his loyalties any longer. He served the Force and only the Force, and his understanding of it increased daily.

The growing power whirling around him, leaking through the lid of his control, made the suppression of his Force signature impossible. All at once he lowered all of the mental barriers, let the full force of his power roil around him."

Originally posted by Nephthys
He still had it at least several days after his fight with Aryn. After their fight he was reassigned to the Unknown Regions, but he snuck away and made his way to kill Adraas. So some length of time had clearly occurred, enough for him to get off Coruscant, bury his wife, go to his new post and then sneak off and kill Adraas. He also mentions that his new understanding of the Force uncreased daily.

What about this suggests his amp with temporary?

"Thinking of Eleena blew oxygen on the embers of his anger. In life, Eleena had been his weakness, a tool to be exploited by rivals. In death, she had become his strength, her memory the lens of his rage.

He resided in the calm eye of a storm of hate. Power churned around him, within him. He did not feel as if he were drawing on the Force, using it. He felt as if he were the Force, as if he had merged with it.

He had evolved. Nothing split his loyalties any longer. He served the Force and only the Force, and his understanding of it increased daily.

The growing power whirling around him, leaking through the lid of his control, made the suppression of his Force signature impossible. All at once he lowered all of the mental barriers, let the full force of his power roil around him."


Sounds similar to how Dooku viewed himself in the ROTS novel.

Can you link me to that Russian website, so I can download the entire deceived novel?

Sure.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sidious solos.

You can't be serious.

The Emperor (OT) would destroy the entire team

I will read Deceived before I make a judgment on Dooku vs. Malgus. I already know just about all of Malgus's feats via Intrepid, but I need to know the power of his opponents in order put some of his feats in better perspective.

Neph, as always, you're lowballing Dooku. Lifting those obelisks doesn't even approach his peak performance with TK, considering the ease in which he did it. Again, Dooku has casually dominated other powerful force users with TK. Also, Dooku isn't lacking in strength to the extent that you seem to imply. Both Kenobi and Ventress have impressive strength feats, yet Dooku casually sends them flying with physical attacks. The only opponents Dooku struggles with in terms of strength are Savage (who was already strong enough to punch holes through concrete walls before his major amp by Talzin), angry Anakin, and Yoda. Other than that, Dooku is a beast, physically, IMO.

Also, thanks for the link.

Originally posted by Nalaniel
You can't be serious.
He's right though. The only one who even begins to approach is Vitiate.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He's right though. The only one who even begins to approach is Vitiate.


You seriously believe Vitiate even begins to approach DE Sidious?

That's not really saying that much. He's not even close to approaching him, if that's what you think I'm saying. But first step in that journey? Sure.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He's right though. The only one who even begins to approach is Vitiate.

Caedus...

Jadus has no feats to even put him above Kit Fisto he is entirely featless and loses to either Dooku or Sidious

Originally posted by Selenial
Caedus...
Is not a part of this thread, why did you bring him up?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Jadus
Featless.

Vader tier, at best.

Of course. Just not by anyone here.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Is not a part of this thread, why did you bring him up?

Oh, I thought you meant in general.

Yeh, you're right. Malgus and Jadus are no where close.

Dooku oneshots Jadus

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Of course. Just not by anyone here.




Even as of ROTS, Sidious's natural power exceeds Vitiate's. As of DE, though, where Vitiate can summon a FLS at whim and defeat a group of jedi within the span of 20 seconds followed by another charged attack, Sidious, at whim, can summon a storm of energy intense enough to shatter the fabric of space and disintegrate entire fleets of starships and more.

It has nothing to do with me being a fan of Sidious, I just never got how people viewed Vitiate has a peer of Sidious. Vitiate's greatest display of power required the aid of thousands of sith and weeks worth of prep, which still doesn't match the sheer power of Palpatine's force storms and the destruction they can cause. That's basically why this thread is a mismatch, no matter what anyone wants to believe. There is nothing any member from team 1 can do to put Sidious down, really, considering the power and attacks he has tanked, and his potency in the dark side being miles beyond theirs. Yes, Sidious is that good. It's a fact and something that can't be refuted. People can complain and cry and be mad at me as much as they want, but I didn't make Sidious as OP'd as he is, GL, Filoni, and the EU did that.

For the most part I've been very reasonable and generous. I haven't claimed Sidious would speed blitz them, despite him having the feats to indicate he could. However, I'm not going to go out of my way to please the TOR fans, especially since Sidious is my favorite character, and because of the fact that If it were the other way around, they wouldn't be as reasonable as I am. Their constant use double standards is proof of that.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66


Even as of ROTS, Sidious's natural power exceeds Vitiate's. As of DE, though, where Vitiate can summon a FLS at whim and defeat a group of jedi within the span of 20 seconds followed by another charged attack, Sidious, at whim, can summon a storm of energy intense enough to shatter the fabric of space and disintegrate entire fleets of starships and more.

It has nothing to do with me being a fan of Sidious, I just never got how people viewed Vitiate has a peer of Sidious. Vitiate's greatest display of power required the aid of thousands of sith and weeks worth of prep, which still doesn't match the sheer power of Palpatine's force storms and the destruction they can cause. That's basically why this thread is a mismatch, no matter what anyone wants to believe. There is nothing any member from team 1 can do to put Sidious down, really, considering the power and attacks he has tanked, and his potency in the dark side being miles beyond theirs. Yes, Sidious is that good. It's a fact and something that can't be refuted. People can complain and cry and be mad at me as much as they want, but I didn't make Sidious as OP'd as he is, GL, Filoni, and the EU did that.

For the most part I've been very reasonable and generous. I haven't claimed Sidious would speed blitz them, despite him having the feats to indicate he could. However, I'm not going to go out of my way to please the TOR fans, especially since Sidious is my favorite character, and because of the fact that If it were the other way around, they wouldn't be as reasonable as I am. Their constant use double standards is proof of that.

(Quoted for troof)

Ah, but Sidious have not been confirmed as supremely powerful in encyclopedic mediums and therefore have not the power to match Darth Jadus In single combat.


Wow, this joke really never gets old xD

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Featless.

Nope.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader tier, at best.

So you think Sidious is far above a guy who is merely 20% weaker than him? For me, that's approaching him.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Of course. Just not by anyone here.

Vitiate is a definite. And Malgus and Jadus both have feats indicating they are but a single tier lesser than Sidious.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
People can complain and cry and be mad at me as much as they want, but I didn't make Sidious as OP'd as he is, GL, Filoni, and the EU did that.

No-one cares enough about your bad opinions to cry over it.

Sidious miles beyond Vitiate? Lmao.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No-one cares enough about your bad opinions to cry over it.

Sidious miles beyond Vitiate? Lmao.


You're the main one who cries and complains every time I remind you of Sidious superiority over Vitiate.

Also, it's a fact, not an opinion, which is why you can't counter it. Yes, Sidious is miles above Vitiate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No-one cares enough about your bad opinions to cry over it.

Sidious miles beyond Vitiate? Lmao.



I disagree that Sidious is miles beyond Vitiate, but you do care enough about his opinions to cry over it {often}. And I've wondered for years what your issue is with Palpatine, but I guess you just don't like successful, powerful villains.

I'm just soo mad you said he was better than Joker.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You're the main one who cries and complains every time I remind you of Sidious superiority over Vitiate.

Also, it's a fact, not an opinion, which is why you can't counter it. Yes, Sidious is miles above Vitiate.

I might have cared about contradicting you a while ago but now I largely just ignore your arguments and don't get invested in talking to you. Its relaxing.

Theres no need for me to counter it. It's pure nonsense. Plus I don't give a shit.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


I disagree that Sidious is miles beyond Vitiate, but you do care enough about his opinions to cry over it {often}. And I've wondered for years what your issue is with Palpatine, but I guess you just don't like successful, powerful villains.

Yes, I saw your post and even replied. Thank you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nope.

Yep. Not a single noteworthy thing about Jadus except people claiming something. That's not a feat.

It's not. Also, just because Malgus is in Vader's tier, that doesn't mean that he's as strong as Vader.


Name a single Jadus "feat" that puts him anywhere near Sidious. In fact, name a Jadus feat period that puts him close to anyone noteworthy. Besides, a tier is a ton of power. A tier is the difference between a fight and being blitzed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, I saw your post and even replied. Thank you.

Why does it bother you that Palpy is the pinnacle of Star Wars villainy?

Eye'd like to think Jadus/Malgus can kill Dooku but Sidious can kill those two just as easily. Dooku would have to be on the defensive most of the time while Sidious does the heavy work. Vitiate is well Vitiate, he's the big factor in the fight. You should have given team 2 someone else liek maybe Vader or Bane.

Bane cant compete with peak Malgus, he'd be outdueled or ragdolled immediately

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Why does it bother you that Palpy is the pinnacle of Star Wars villainy?

I'm super invested in proving that Vitiate is the best. Despite not liking him or thinking he's a particularly good villain.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm super invested in proving that Vitiate is the best. Despite not liking him or thinking he's a particularly good villain.

But he's not.

It'd be different if Vitiate were objectively the best and the facts said as much and you were merely acquiescing to the truth, but you're not.

Your crusade doesn't make any sense... unless you're lying.

Slander! I am being completely upfront and honest here.

So you're campaigning for a character you don't like or even really respect to be king when the facts don't necessarily conclude as much?

That would be like me trying my damndest to marry a girl who is neither rich nor pleasant nor attractive.

Doesn't make sense bro. I think you're a fanboy but don't want to admit it because it would be a tacit acknowledgment of Palpatine's superiority since Vitiate is a clone.

I don't recall stating Vitiate > Sidious in this thread or recently. No campaign here, bro.

You're right that doesn't make sense. It's almost as if I geniunely think he's powerful or something and personal bias doesn't even factor into it or something.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I might have cared about contradicting you a while ago but now I largely just ignore your arguments and don't get invested in talking to you. Its relaxing.

Theres no need for me to counter it. It's pure nonsense. Plus I don't give a shit.


You just responded to a post from me that wasn't even directed at you (lol). You should at least care about contradicting yourself.

I'm sure it's relaxing because with me, when you make a claim, I ask you to back it up, which you never can.

Let's see if you can at least provide what Freshest is asking from you.

Actually Jadus did held a part of his ship together, not the whole thing but eye'm guessing the part where he was located in.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't recall stating Vitiate > Sidious in this thread or recently. No campaign here, bro.

You're right that doesn't make sense. It's almost as if I geniunely think he's powerful or something and personal bias doesn't even factor into it or something.

facepalm

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm super invested in proving that Vitiate is the best.

^ This is you, right here, admitting that you're super invested in proving that Vitiate is the best (which would require him being better than Palpatine).

If it were mere objective reflection of the facts, then you'd conclude Vitiate is one of the best (which he is and like I do). But the facts do not conclude that Vitiate is the best, which you're determined to prove that he is.

And then you claim you don't really like him or respect him.

You're lying.

So.....Sidious solos?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
facepalm



^ This is you, right here, admitting that you're super invested in proving that Vitiate is the best (which would require him being better than Palpatine).

If it were mere objective reflection of the facts, then you'd conclude Vitiate is one of the best (which he is and like I do). But the facts do not conclude that Vitiate is the best, which you're determined to prove that he is.

And then you claim you don't really like him or respect him.

You're lying.




That was a joke. Duh.

Originally posted by Nephthys


That was a joke. Duh.

WHICH PART GAHHHHwefae/rlgnse;lgn

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So.....Sidious solos?

No.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
No.
How exactly is anyone here besides Vitiate anything but a nuisance?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
WHICH PART GAHHHHwefae/rlgnse;lgn

That I'm super invested in Vitiate being the best, lol.

So you think Sidious can simply toss Emperor Malgus aside while also fending off Vitiate's firepower? Not seeing it. Even if Vitiate weren't here, I'm not sure if Sidious could ragdoll peak Malgus.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
So you think Sidious can simply toss Emperor Malgus aside while also fending off Vitiate's firepower?
You mean the firepower that takes way too long comparatively to use? Or the firepower that Sidious is well above and can replicate?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You mean the firepower that takes way too long comparatively to use? Or the firepower that Sidious is well above and can replicate?

I'm not doubting that sidious exceeds vitiate's firepower...alone. He's not beating the combined might of Vitiate and Malgus, IMO.

What-if team 1 decided to combine their Force Lightning against Sidious-kun?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'm not doubting that sidious exceeds vitiate's firepower...alone. He's not beating the combined might of Vitiate and Malgus, IMO.

But Sidious is miles more powerful than either. They'd get the Zabrak-bro's treatment. Duh.

Oh srry man I totally forgot ur right please forgive me I hope sidious doesn't try to snatch me in my sleep

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'm not doubting that sidious exceeds vitiate's firepower...alone. He's not beating the combined might of Vitiate and Malgus, IMO.
It's not like they DBZ fuse together for this statement to make any sense.

I'm saying Palpatine is well capable of removing Malgus before he even becomes a factor.

No, he's not. This isn't maul-level Deceived Malgus here. This is the Emperor Malgus that brought a strike team comprised of the most powerful Jedi and Sith in the galaxy to their knees with lightning, blasted their asses with TK, and then of course there's his force maelstrom to boot. Plus he's backed up by, y'know, Vitiate, who just so happens to be arguably the most powerful Sith there is sans Palpatine himself. Palpatine isn't KO'ing peak Malgus with such impunity.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yep. Not a single noteworthy thing about Jadus except people claiming something. That's not a feat.

Sure, that seems legit. (Tempest, if you're reading this, that was sarcasm. Just so you know.)

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's not. Also, just because Malgus is in Vader's tier, that doesn't mean that he's as strong as Vader.

I know, but he is. And it should allow him to content for a while. Dooku contended with Yoda in lightsabers. And Revan contended with Vitiate in the Force. Malgus can survive for a time. With Vitiate by his side, they can win.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Name a single Jadus "feat" that puts him anywhere near Sidious. In fact, name a Jadus feat period that puts him close to anyone noteworthy. Besides, a tier is a ton of power. A tier is the difference between a fight and being blitzed.

The Dominator.

And no, not really. A person on a tier below can contend with someone above for a while. Ventress isn't on Dooku's level, yet he didn't blitz her, did he? There are countless examples of an outmatched character going down swinging without embarrassing themselves.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You just responded to a post from me that wasn't even directed at you (lol). You should at least care about contradicting yourself.

I'm sure it's relaxing because with me, when you make a claim, I ask you to back it up, which you never can.

Let's see if you can at least provide what Freshest is asking from you.

That doesn't imply that I care about you thinking Sidious>>>>>Vitiate, just that I saw the opportunity to ruffle your hair a bit.

I never try. Theres no point going through this shit with you.

Eye thought the canon interpretation ofn that was it was just the Emperor's wrath fighting him since apparently if u talk to him bi urselvs he has ay completely different dialogue.

Nah, that's with any class if I'm not mistaken.

O eye c. Well yeh, while eye do think team 2 wins it'd be difficult. Eye also don't think Dooku is survivng.

I quite like the argument used on other forums, which is that if its an option in the game then its something the character is capable of. Theres no canon way that fight can go down, but him smacking an entire team around is just as valid as the Wrath soloing him.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
So you think Sidious can simply toss Emperor Malgus aside while also fending off Vitiate's firepower? Not seeing it. Even if Vitiate weren't here, I'm not sure if Sidious could ragdoll peak Malgus.


Sidious has tanked a force attack from Marek, who had entered a state of oneness with the force, and all but destroyed Palpatine's tower on the death star, which left him dead and Palpatine still standing. This thread has Sidious on a DS nexus, and a dying Sidious shrugged off the crushing impact of a ton of machinery, causing it to disintegrate on contact with his head, while on a nexus. Imagine the durability of Sidious at full power while on a powerful nexus as this one. I'm not seeing what Vitiate's lightning would do to him.

As far as speed goes, I won't suggest that Sidious will speed blitz them, but he has far greater speed feats then anyone on this team, so distancing himself from them shouldn't be an issue. And while at a distance, if he were to unleash a force storm on them, what exactly could they do to stop it?

Of course Sidious has never utilized this attack on any opponent in direct combat, but if we limit feats to what the characters have only been shown to utilize mid-combat, Vitiate doesn't have much to go on. At least with Palpatine's storms, I could make a pretty solid case that if he wanted to, he could use it in combat.

BTW, in your opinion, how close would you place Vitiate to Palpatine in force power?

Mareks blast just weakened the supports enough to trigger a lot of destruction. Calm your stiffy.

Shrugging off a ton of machinery is nothing.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't imply that I care about you thinking Sidious>>>>>Vitiate, just that I saw the opportunity to ruffle your hair a bit.

I never try. Theres no point going through this shit with you.


I wasn't talking about this thread.

You didn't ruffle my hair, it just gave me a reason to remind you of the fact that you can't prove Vitiate comes close to Sidious.

I don't mind if people want to believe Vitiate is close to Sidious, but if I make an argument proving otherwise, unless you can refute it then you have no business criticizing it. Sidious has far superior feats and accolades. It is a fact that a strict comparison between them both, Palpatine beats him pretty solidly.

I don't get mad at people viewing Vitiate as Palpatine's peer, I'm just not convinced how. Tempest views them as peers. I'm sure he has a reason why he wants to believe it, which I respect. I may not understand how, but I respect it. I doubt it's something he could prove (though if he could I wouldn't mind hearing him or anyone else out). Just like I have opinions that I'm unable to prove. The fact remains, though, as far as what we know about both characters, Palpatine beats Vitiate solidly. Getting mad about it, is silly and useless.

Considering we haven't seen the full extent of Vitiate's power with lightning (specifically at full power in the Dark Temple,) I'm not too sure. I have a hunch that his maximum output storm would prove to be very difficult to block, especially considering how on a weaker nexus it easily and instantaneously overwhelmed Revan's tutaminis defenses, Revan having immense raw power and mastery in this aspect (easily blocking Nyriss's lightning storm which could ash very powerful beings.) Then of course off nexus he destroyed 4 of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy, ultimately obliterating their lightsabers and rendering them unconscious while not actively seeking to kill them. Add Emperor Malgus into this? It's gonna be a rough fight.

I hadn't considered that this was DE Sidious. I'm not sure about his force storm, and I still don't like his chances in this fight. The united efforts of both Malgus and Vitiate are those which very few could hope to overcome.

In regards to where I place Vitiate compared to Palpatine in force power, I place them pretty close. Yeah, even DE Palpatine. While you can say that Palpatine's force storm is infinitely beyond anything we've seen from Vitiate, I don't see you (or really anyone, for that matter) using the scale argument with Nihilus either. Reallistically, DE Palpatine isn't that much more powerful than ROTS Palpatine, it's just that DE Palpatine was more masterful, which is what he needed to harness the force storm. In terms of what they've combatively shown in terms of force powers though, I don't see Sidious as stompingly superior.

This isn't DE Sidious. At least, the OP hasn't said it is.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I wasn't talking about this thread.

You didn't ruffle my hair, it just gave me a reason to remind you of the fact that you can't prove Vitiate comes close to Sidious.

I don't mind if people want to believe Vitiate is close to Sidious, but if I make an argument proving otherwise, unless you can refute it then you have no business criticizing it. Sidious has far superior feats and accolades. It is a fact that a strict comparison between them both, Palpatine beats him pretty solidly.

I don't get mad at people viewing Vitiate as Palpatine's peer, I'm just not convinced how. Tempest views them as peers. I'm sure he has a reason why he wants to believe it, which I respect. I may not understand how, but I respect it. I doubt it's something he could prove (though if he could I wouldn't mind hearing him or anyone else out). Just like I have opinions that I'm unable to prove. The fact remains, though, as far as what we know about both characters, Palpatine beats Vitiate solidly. Getting mad about it, is silly and useless.

Yeah, its far more sensible to get mad about someone saying Revan>Dooku.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So.....Sidious solos?

Originally posted by Nephthys
This isn't DE Sidious. At least, the OP hasn't said it is.

Pretty sure that automatically makes it DE Sidious, by default.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Considering we haven't seen the full extent of Vitiate's power with lightning (specifically at full power in the Dark Temple,) I'm not too sure. I have a hunch that his maximum output storm would prove to be very difficult to block, especially considering how on a weaker nexus it easily and instantaneously overwhelmed Revan's tutaminis defenses, Revan having immense raw power and mastery in this aspect (easily blocking Nyriss's lightning storm which could ash very powerful beings.) Then of course off nexus he destroyed 4 of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy, ultimately obliterating their lightsabers and rendering them unconscious while not actively seeking to kill them. Add Emperor Malgus into this? It's gonna be a rough fight.

I hadn't considered that this was DE Sidious. I'm not sure about his force storm, and I still don't like his chances in this fight. The united efforts of both Malgus and Vitiate are those which very few could hope to overcome.

In regards to where I place Vitiate compared to Palpatine in force power, I place them pretty close. Yeah, even DE Palpatine. While you can say that Palpatine's force storm is infinitely beyond anything we've seen from Vitiate, I don't see you (or really anyone, for that matter) using the scale argument with Nihilus either. Reallistically, DE Palpatine isn't that much more powerful than ROTS Palpatine, it's just that DE Palpatine was more masterful, which is what he needed to harness the force storm. In terms of what they've combatively shown in terms of force powers though, I don't see Sidious as stompingly superior.


We have a pretty good idea of the raw output of Vitiate's lightning. It took 20 seconds worth of attack plus another charged attack just to render his opponents unconscious. Perhaps if he attacked after they were rendered unconscious, he could have killed them all. Clearly if he could put more power in his lightning, he would have no need to unleash another charged attack just to overpower the saber defenses of two jedi. So, no, I'm not going to assume his lightning is that much more potent than what he produced against the strike team, considering the amount of attack required in that confrontation. That's not the logic you used with Dooku not to long ago. You declared that disintegration was beyond his out put of power, despite the fact that a single gout, from one hand, was sufficient to instantly KO Bulq, who is possibly one of the strongest jedi of his time.

As far as your suggestion that Vitiate's lightning would be more powerful on a nexus, well Sidious will also be benefiting from this nexus, and as I mentioned earlier, Sidious has tanked far more destructive power than what Vitiate's lightning is capable of producing, and Palpatine did so while off a nexus. A dying Palpatine's durability on a nexus was such that a ton of machinery completely shattered on impact with his head. Still not seeing what they could do to harm him. Maybe you can accuse me of overrating him, but, hey, I'm going by showings just like you are for Vitiate, and I'm not going to ignore them to please anyone.

If you're able to make a solid case for Nihilus being capable of giga-drain mid-combat, I would have no problem accepting that as long as it don't contradict what we see onscreen during combat. Regarding Palpatine's storm, we have sources that detail the ease in which he can summon them, on top of seeing him produce one instantly after Luke cut his hand off. He's also shown the capability of producing smaller versions and controlling them from a distance of light years. Logically, controlling them from closer range would require far less effort. In fact, before he had fully mastered his ability with them, he opened a small one in the reactor shaft that Vader threw him in to teleport his spirit. There is absolutely nothing to contradict the idea of him being able to use a small one on his opponents in combat if he distances himself, and given that his speed is beyond theirs, he is more than capable of distancing himself. I have every reason to believe he could use them in combat, unless you can give a reason as to why he wouldn't be able to.

Why would you assume we use ROTS Sidious. When we have a thread with Kenobi, do we use his AOTC version; or when we use Maul, do we use his TPM version? Regardless, yes Palpatine has shown far greater feats of durability, wider range of powers, and has produced greater displays of raw power as of DE. Regardless of whether or not greater mastery allowed him to harness and unleash more power, he's still an overall more powerful force user.

Regardless, even as of ROTS, Sidious is quite solidly above Vitiate in terms of TK. Sidious has easily dominated both Maul and Savage simultaneously while toying with them, and Dooku from a distance of light years. Dooku himself has dominated other powerful force users who could shatter the ground with force pushes (Voss), crush assassin droids, push through shielded destroyer droids, use TK on a molecular lever to cause a tidal wave (Kenobi), nearly crush the hearts of other powerful jedi, collapse huge boulders from cave ceilings, cause avalanches (Ventress). Maul has force choked Kenobi while fighting off another jedi. Just by getting angry, Savage consistently hurls force users around. As far as lightning, I think I made a case for Sidious lightning being superior to Vitiate's (disintegrating sith spawn, KOing Yoda level force users with short blasts, nearly overpowering the saber defense of Windu, while not even trying to defeat Windu), which was overlooked. Speed, Sidious can blitz top jedi of his era, but of course titles like that only mean something when they are given to TOR characters. In fact, I haven't seen anyone give a speed feat that suggests Vitiate or Malgus are above jedi Palpatine can easily blitz. All I see are arguments like "well no they are powerful so that means they are fast and can keep up." Well if power determines one's speed, then logically being three of the jedi's greatest swordsmen would require them to be fast by jedi standards, which would in turn indicate that they are powerful force users as well. Hell, Tiin was stated as having one of the strongest force connections of his time (a time Lucas refers to as the jedi in their prime), and was implied to being a peer of Windu in terms of raw power, yet we seen what that did for him when confronting Sidious. So, again, I'm generous for the most part, but I'm not going out of my way entirely to please the TOR fans. Sidious is my favorite character, and, no, I've seen absolutely nothing from Vitiate to suggest he'd be a challenge in combat. At most he'd stall Sidious, and that's only if Sidious allows Vitiate to attack with his powers first before he attacks with his. I'd be lying if I said I thought Vitiate is close to ROTS Sidious. One good lightning showing doesn't make me believe Vitiate approaches ROTS Sidious in combat. Dooku has defeated Ventress + 2 other nightsisters with a one 10 second lightning attack while drugged, and has KO'd Bulq with a short one handed lightning attack, and he doesn't even approach Sidious in that area.

Neph,

I never got mad at the claim that Revan > Dooku, I countered it. I stated that I viewed them as peers, with Dooku being better.

It was when I stated that Revan's meteor feat isn't any more impressive than a particular TK feat performed by a force user who was ragdolled by Dooku that people, such as yourself, started getting mad.

Didnt The Emperors lightning reduce darkside prophets to ash and kill multiple squads of stormstroopers? Vitiates lightning must really be shit of nexus

Originally posted by carthage
Didnt The Emperors lightning reduce darkside prophets to ash and kill multiple squads of stormstroopers? Vitiates lightning must really be shit of nexus


The attack on the prophets was on a nexus, though.

This is a nexus, so comparably, I think he means: Palpatine's nexus lightning is stronger than Vitiate's.

Not that you should doubt Palpatine is capable of such a feat off nexus.

It was suggested that Vitiate's lightning could ash opponents, being confirmed as being more potent than Nyriss's. But of course the lightning attack that was compared to Nyriss's happened on a more potent nexus than the one Palpatine was on when he attacked the prophets.