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Fight occurs on a dark side nexus.

An amped Maul LOLOMFGROFLGODSTOMP's Scourge

Talzin > Vitiate IMO.

Both amped and prep'd, Talzin wins.

That and Talzin can amp Maul even further with nightsister magic and then he could show a loser like Scourge how a real Sith fights.

I think Vitiate would beat Talzin, but it wouldn't be easy. Scourge vs Maul could go either way. I'm rolling with team 2 on this one.

Maul would GODSTOMP Scourge.

Scourge has no feats to content with him at all.

If Talzin double amps Maul, Vitiate gets speedblitzed or nothing is stopping Vitiate from getting possessed.

Team 1 rolls, TOR fails

Talzin with an amp and prep was going evenly with Sidious... and then Dooku on top of that.

Not to mention she was stalemating with Windu in a duel, for as much as we saw.

Windu has a history of not being able to actually beat anyone in a fight (Grievous, Maul, Talzin, struggling with Ventress, struggling with Bulq), only stalemating Palpatine with a MASSSIVE amp).

He is one of the most overrated fighters in the mythos.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Talzin with an amp and prep was going evenly with Sidious... and then Dooku on top of that.

Not to mention she was stalemating with Windu in a duel, for as much as we saw.

A prepped and amped Vitiate would give Sidious a tough fight in pure force skills. Also, I could be wrong but I don't think Sidious was amped in any way when he fought Talzin. Dooku was severely weakened during that battle.



I doubt Talzin and Vitiate could mind rape each other.

Talzin =< Sidious, but they fought in a place called "the heart of Mother Talzin's power".
She was able to matching his lightning with her own for a while, but he started to winning after some time. Then Maul gave her his strenght, but moment after Count Dookuhas aided Sidious, and the fight was decided. She was forced onto defensive, and probably understood that she's doomed.
Anyway, her Force barier was awesome, her lightning was probably second only to Sidious.

Hard ot tell, if she was at her full condition. If she was ready for 100% to fight Sidious, then we should assume, that she wont be able to repeat that feats on neural ground. But if she was stil weakened, then the nexus of her powers has only compensated her lack of powers. And she should be treat, as about 100% of herself on neutral ground.

If she was weakened when she fought Sidious, and in this fight she's at her peak, then she may solos this.
However, if she was 100% ready to fight Sidious and she couldn't beat him while being supported by her nexus, then I would say, that she's about equal to Vitiate. In that scenario it might be decided by Maul's duel with Scourge. And since I believe that Scourge is well below Maul, then I would say that Dathomir' team takes this once again.

Originally posted by carthage
Windu has a history of not being able to actually beat anyone in a fight (Grievous, Maul, Talzin, struggling with Ventress, struggling with Bulq), only stalemating Palpatine with a MASSSIVE amp).

He is one of the most overrated fighters in the mythos.

<3 You are my hero!

But it should be noted, that Mace has some hype, and he should be listed somwhere near to Count Dooku. Perhaps just a bit below him.

Talzin has no TK feats. Vitiate ragdolls her. awermm

Originally posted by Nephthys
Talzin has no TK feats. Vitiate ragdolls her. awermm

Vitiate has no saber feats, supposedly a master of Lightsaber combat.

Your hypocrisy is noted.

Your inability to refute my point is also noted.

The Book of Sith suggests that Talzin uses winds to levitate and move objects btw, not telekinesis.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Your inability to refute my point is also noted.

The Book of Sith suggests that Talzin uses winds to levitate and move objects btw, not telekinesis.

You're joking right...

Also, If you're suggesting she has alter environment to the stage where she can create hurricane level winds, then I'm fine with that

But yeh, even if she doesn't have TK of any level, she could still defend against it via her god bubble...

Originally posted by Selenial
You're joking right...

Also, If you're suggesting she has alter environment to the stage where she can create hurricane level winds, then I'm fine with that

But yeh, even if she doesn't have TK of any level, she could still defend against it via her god bubble...





The fact that Sidious, who is solidly above Vitiate in TK, didn't overpower her with it, should imply that she can defend against it. However, implications only apply to TOR characters around here.

She also flung Maul into a shuttle in SoD.

Originally posted by red8
A prepped and amped Vitiate would give Sidious a tough fight in pure force skills.

A prepped and amped Vitiate one-shots dark councils, annihilates planets and mindrapes even the best of the jedi into falling to dark side.

Originally posted by Selenial
You're joking right...

Also, If you're suggesting she has alter environment to the stage where she can create hurricane level winds, then I'm fine with that

But yeh, even if she doesn't have TK of any level, she could still defend against it via her god bubble...




Why would you need hurricane level winds to float and move objects? Look, I read through her section of the Book of Sith where she describes Nightsister magic and the only reference to TK is when she mention s the Sorcerers of Tund's "psychic blasts". Other than that she mentions "winds that will carry you through the sky" and "air that keeps you aloft within a sphere of green energy." I'm not suggesting anything, that's just what it says.

Or Vitiate could choke the shit out of her through the bubble.

Originally posted by Nephthys


Why would you need hurricane level winds to float and move objects? Look, I read through her section of the Book of Sith where she describes Nightsister magic and the only reference to TK is when she mention s the Sorcerers of Tund's "psychic blasts". Other than that she mentions "winds that will carry you through the sky" and "air that keeps you aloft within a sphere of green energy." I'm not suggesting anything, that's just what it says.

Or Vitiate could choke the shit out of her through the bubble.

I never even mentioned the Book of Sith btw, just saying. But yeh, you need Hurricane level winds to propel someone through the sky.

And no, because he bubble is a glorified, intensely more powerful version of a Force Barrier, It'd block a Choke just as easily as Lightning...

Originally posted by Selenial
I never even mentioned the Book of Sith btw, just saying. But yeh, you need Hurricane level winds to propel someone through the sky.

And no, because he bubble is a glorified, intensely more powerful version of a Force Barrier, It'd block a Choke just as easily as Lightning...

No you don't. Do you need hurricane level TK to levitate? No.

Speculation.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The fact that Sidious, who is solidly above Vitiate in TK, didn't overpower her with it, should imply that she can defend against it.
Agreed. Sidious is better in TK. But not because of nexuses.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Agreed. Sidious is better in TK. But not because of nexuses.


I know Sidious doesn't need a nexus and is still superior to a nexus enhanced Vitiate in that area.

Though I doubt that's what you're trying to say.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No you don't. Do you need hurricane level TK to levitate? No.

Speculation.

Incorrect.

You said it's winds. Specifically winds.

You need hurricane level winds to lift Humans off the ground and propel them into the air....

No, not necessarily. Not with winds that you control with magic. You only need to generate enough force to lift a human off the ground and support them, which isn't that much.

I mean, do you need hurricane winds to do Force Whirlwind? Thats lifts peeps off the ground too.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, not necessarily. Not with winds that you control with magic. You only need to generate enough force to lift a human off the ground and support them, which isn't that much.

I mean, do you need hurricane winds to do Force Whirlwind? Thats lifts peeps off the ground too.

Given the violent nature of Whirlwind, probably *Shrug*

Either way this is entirely irrelevant, as were supposed to be discussing TK.

So Malak has hurricane winds too?

Yes, which Talzin has no quantifiably impressive showings in. Vitiate wins. Though he could also beat her in lightning and telepathy as well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So Malak has hurricane winds too?

Yes, which Talzin has no quantifiably impressive showings in. Vitiate wins. Though he could also beat her in lightning and telepathy as well.

Vitiate has no showings in sabers ^.^

Yes, I'm going to bring this up every time.

Also, again, the Sidious argument.

Unless you think Talzin's gonna try to blitz him, shrug?

Sidious never tried TK. So we don't know how effective it would have been. Probably pure PIS that he didn't try it.

I still don't see how Vitiate TK will make this that much easier.

He can't directly TK her due to her barriers, and throwing stuff at her? She teleports and is surprisingly agile, that wouldn't really work either.

Originally posted by carthage


He is one of the most overrated fighters in the mythos.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Unless you think Talzin's gonna try to blitz him, shrug?

Sidious never tried TK. So we don't know how effective it would have been. Probably pure PIS that he didn't try it.


Sidious made it clear that he viewed her powers as a threat. Why would he neglect to use something in his arsenal that could quickly end her, unless, of course, he knew he couldn't?

Sidious speed feats are far beyond Vitiate's or any opponent Vitiate has faced, but your argument as to why Sidious would be unable to blitz him is because "he's powerful," but that logic doesn't apply to people who aren't TOR characters?

Dooku considered Savage a threat, despite having a technique he had no defense against. Again, PIS. According to you the whole galaxy views Vitiate as a threat despite him being easily blitzable.

That's only one of my arguments about Sidious not blitzing him.

Originally posted by Selenial
I still don't see how Vitiate TK will make this that much easier.

He can't directly TK her due to her barriers, and throwing stuff at her? She teleports and is surprisingly agile, that wouldn't really work either.

You don't know that he can't directly TK her, you're just assuming that. Also has she teleported in combat? Can she teleport in her real body?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku considered Savage a threat, despite having a technique he had no defense against. Again, PIS. According to you the whole galaxy views Vitiate as a threat despite him being easily blitzable.

That's only one of my arguments about Sidious not blitzing him.


x 10

Also S66, I've specifically pointed out that its unknown if Talzin even possesses TK. If she does, then yeah her great power indicates that she's probably decently powerful with it. Which is why I looked through Talzin's writing to see if there was any evidence of her actually having telekinetic powers. With Vitiate, he's a Sith. So of course he has Force Speed and enhanced reflexes. But Nightsister magic is different so we should be more cautious about such assumptions.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku considered Savage a threat, despite having a technique he had no defense against. Again, PIS. According to you the whole galaxy views Vitiate as a threat despite him being easily blitzable.

That's only one of my arguments about Sidious not blitzing him.


Sidious didn't exist back then, so it's pretty irrelevant.

Regardless, you're missing the point. Here you're basing your whole argument on feats and what Talzin hasn't shown much of. That logic can be used against Vitiate. Again neither Vitiate nor any of the opponents he's faced approach Sidious in speed.

#doublestandards

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also S66, I've specifically pointed out that its unknown if Talzin even possesses TK. If she does, then yeah her great power indicates that she's probably decently powerful with it. Which is why I looked through Talzin's writing to see if there was any evidence of her actually having telekinetic powers. With Vitiate, he's a Sith. So of course he has Force Speed and enhanced reflexes. But Nightsister magic is different so we should be more cautious about such assumptions.


Tiin, Kolar and Fisto have enhanced reflexes as well; didn't help much against Sidious.

Regardless of how Talzin's magic works, it's something that allows her to harness the force, and makes her power sufficient enough that Sidious viewed her power as a threat to him. If he could easily slay her via TK then he would have done so.

As for your Savage example, Dooku viewed his increasing power as a threat, and that technique Savage had no defense against, annoyed him to the point of overpowering both Dooku and Ventress in a force choke. How does this support your point?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Sidious didn't exist back then, so it's pretty irrelevant.

Regardless, you're missing the point. Here you're basing your whole argument on feats and what Talzin hasn't shown much of. That logic can be used against Vitiate. Again neither Vitiate nor any of the opponents he's faced approach Sidious in speed.

#doublestandards

No it isn't. Plenty of other fast characters existed back then.

I definitely could justify my position in this but Vitiate vs Sidious isn't the topic here. Unless you have a relevant argument concerning this, drop it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No it isn't. Plenty of other fast characters existed back then.

I definitely could justify my position in this but Vitiate vs Sidious isn't the topic here. Unless you have a relevant argument concerning this, drop it.


None of them come close to Sidious in speed.

No, but if Palpatine was unable to kill her with TK then someone who is solidly below him isn't either.

Sidious isn't relevant. I said "easily blitzable", I didn't add "by Sidious" afterwards.

Sidious never even tried.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious isn't relevant. I said "easily blitzable", I didn't add "by Sidious" afterwards.

Sidious never even tried.


Are you even trying to make sense? The galaxy viewing Vitiate as a threat has no bearing on what Sidious would be capable of doing to him. If you're attempting to use my logic against me, you failed miserably. Sidious viewing Talzin as a threat does have more of a bearing of what your claiming Vitiate would be able to do to her, given the fact that Sidious is solidly above Vitiate in that area, and didn't even attempt to use it on her despite viewing her power as a threat to him and wanting her dead.

I never claimed Vitiate would be easily blitzable for Sidious, but the logic in which you came to this conclusion doesn't exactly disprove the notion that he could.

Do you plan on stopping with the double standards any time soon?

Dude, I never mentioned Sidious. I cheekily pointed out you seeing Vitiate as easily blitzable by people in general, not just by Sidious. You taking it as a point about Vitiate vs Sidious speaks more about you not making sense than me. Of course the galaxy viewing Vitiate as a threat has no bearing on what Sidious would be capable of doing to him. Again, I didn't say jack shit about Sidious.

Stop trying to turn this into an argument.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dude, I never mentioned Sidious. I cheekily pointed out you seeing Vitiate as easily blitzable by people in general, not just by Sidious. You taking it as a point about Vitiate vs Sidious speaks more about you not making sense than me. Of course the galaxy viewing Vitiate as a threat has no bearing on what Sidious would be capable of doing to him. Again, I didn't say jack shit about Sidious.

Stop trying to turn this into an argument.


When have I ever stated Vitiate as being easily blitzable to anyone in general? I think you need to go back and read where this entire argument began to give a you a big clue as to why I brought Sidious in this.

Don't offer any compromise. Vitiate has no speed feats to contend with the Emperor.

He gets oneshot, or ragdolled immediately. Vitiate has nothing, never will have anything, and will always be inferior to Sidious.