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Who wins?

Captain Atom is too much.

Originally posted by carver9
Captain Atom is too much.

Why? Can he survive a speedblitz or something?

Originally posted by Surtur
Why? Can he survive a speedblitz or something? I'm assuming that it's because he can absorb radiation, has comparable stats, and can project the type of radiation that weakens superman

Originally posted by Surtur
Why? Can he survive a speedblitz or something?

Lol...have you been keeping up with Captain Atom at all? Lol at the speed comment.

Originally posted by deathslash
I'm assuming that it's because he can absorb radiation, has comparable stats, and can project the type of radiation that weakens superman

None of that matters if there is a massive speed gap. Not saying there is, but that is why I'm asking.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...have you been keeping up with Captain Atom at all? Lol at the speed comment.

No I haven't really been keeping up with him, that is why I asked. So..what is his speed like? He either needs speed on the level of Superman..or he needs to be so utterly durable that the speed gap(if one exists) doesn't matter.

All I know is that prior to the New Universe..Cap was nowhere near Superman's level of speed nor was he so durable he could withstand a speedblitz, so he must of been given a substantial upgrade since the reboot.

Originally posted by Surtur
None of that matters if there is a massive speed gap. Not saying there is, but that is why I'm asking.



No I haven't really been keeping up with him, that is why I asked. So..what is his speed like? He either needs speed on the level of Superman..or he needs to be so utterly durable that the speed gap(if one exists) doesn't matter.

All I know is that prior to the New Universe..Cap was nowhere near Superman's level of speed nor was he so durable he could withstand a speedblitz, so he must of been given a substantial upgrade since the reboot.

Time doesn't mean a thing to someone like Captain Atom who sees the world in slow motion and was also able to keep up with Flash and converse with him who was moving so fast that time and bullets stopped.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/39302/761999-2656399-cap_03_006.jpg
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/39302/762000-2656400-cap_03_007.jpg
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/39302/762001-2656401-cap_03_009.jpg

You should probably read up on these characters before debating...especially before calling them slow. What's new Superman best speed ft?

Superman read 10 Years worth of medical texts, in physical form, in unter 5 Minutes and beat a serious flash with a flick of his finger. He is on par with CA, speedwise.

Granted, Captain Atom hasn't had a drawn out fight with anyone as strong as Superman yet, physical attacks don't seem terribly effective against him, being an energy being and all.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Superman read 10 Years worth of medical texts, in physical form, in unter 5 Minutes and beat a serious flash with a flick of his finger. He is on par with CA, speedwise.

Reading medical books, nice (don't think that comes close to time meaning nothing). Lol...serious Flash? The one that was dancing around making jokes? The one that Superman couldn't tag until he made Flash walk into his hand? Nice try. Like the medical book though. Not close to Atom speed.

Here is the scene before hand...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/93477/2820081-2370073_pinch_super.jpg

Reading the books, flipping the sites and getting the knowledge > the speed feat you showed with CA. At least if you can comprehend it.

Flash didn't want to be tagged, Superman did it with his speed.

http://i.stack.imgur.com/uOwC9.jpg

Nice try at lowballing, as always Carter. Never change.

Flash wasn't fighting back and as shown per the scans, wasn't even moving that fast. Look at the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th panel...paper around them is shuffling around whereas in the scan I presented, time was at a halt. Flash wasn't moving close to the speed he showed with Captain Atom.

Nice medical book reading though. Still don't think it compares to someone that see time at a halt.

They are comparable, speed wise.

Then Cap has the rest of his powers.

Carver posted those scans in response to Surtur, who asked if he could stand up to a speedblitz....which he most assuredly can.

Team 2 wins

Team 2 wins this..


And Carver just dominated this debate..

^lol@this cheerleader.
Originally posted by carver9
Flash wasn't fighting back and as shown per the scans, wasn't even moving that fast. Look at the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th panel...paper around them is shuffling around whereas in the scan I presented, time was at a halt. Flash wasn't moving close to the speed he showed with Captain Atom.

Nice medical book reading though. Still don't think it compares to someone that see time at a halt.

Flash didn't want to be tagged by Superman so he was moving at his best, yet Superman made the move, you see him moving his fist towards flash and instead of punching him he just flipped a finger and beat him. Superman was holding back, also this was rookie Superman who was still weaker than current one (5 years before now).

Read a book and tell me how many hours you need. Then add it up to 10 years worth of reading and break it down to 5 minutes. You will see that CA feat, where time was still going as you can see in the scans, because they show the clock. This is time seeing at a halt. Supermans speed didn't change compared to the Pre-DCnU as shown in this example.

And here is the time stop you like so much with pre-dcnu superman.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113366/4100737-8599133599-35471.jpg

They had a prolonged conversation and moved for some panels while time was "frozen".

LOL at the idea that superman needed to read every line of every page... Every heard of skim reading? Regular humans can read pages super fast.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
LOL at the idea that superman needed to read every line of every page... Every heard of skim reading? Regular humans can read pages super fast.

I don't think you skip information if the life of someone you love depends on it. Also, scientific books are sometimes unfogiving. At least in my studies I read the stuff I have too carefully, to understand it properly in order to pass the exams and not to screw up the projects. But then again, I prefer an A over an B.

Flash wasn't going all out. He did not throw a punch. He even stopped to have a conversation during this. He's smiling, etc... that was not a serious Flash. Then we have the previous panel where Superman is trying to catch him but failed. In a lot of panels. Also, time wasn't at a halt when he was fighting against a holding back Flash. Lol...proof that he was holding back...a simple push from Flash did this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123129/2897346-12.2.jpg

Instead of wrapping Superman cape around him, he could have been tossing Superman across the city with ease but as shown, he was playing around.

Not responding to your scan because that version of Superman isn't in this thread. Nice text book reading though. I think Darksaint hit this topic dead on.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash wasn't going all out. He did not throw a punch. He even stopped to have a conversation during this. He's smiling, etc... that was not a serious Flash. Then we have the previous panel where Superman is trying to catch him but failed. In a lot of panels. Also, time wasn't at a halt when he was fighting against a holding back Flash. Lol...proof that he was holding back...a simple push from Flash did this...


Instead of wrapping Superman cape around him, he could have been tossing Superman across the city with ease but as shown, he was playing around.

Not responding to your scan because that version of Superman isn't in this thread. Nice text book reading though. I think Darksaint hit this topic dead on.

Flash doesn't wants to be tagged, he said as much, it is impossible in his world so he was avoiding supes, just because he doesn't punch doesn't mean he isn't moving at his best, on the contrary. Similing doesn't change the fact.

Superman was holding back. Proof? Instead of a finger he could have hit flash with his fist. Fist > Finger. Got it. Glad to help.

I will keep this scan and this thread in mind when you try to lowball pre dcnu Supes. Progress.

So we know that Superman, Flash and CA are very close in the speed department and that Hulk will be a statue to both. Now we need to know how fast BM is, if he has speed feats on par with Flash, CA and Supes. At worst it will be CA vs Superman with Hulk and BM being insignificant stautes at best we have 2 v 1 and Hulk will cost the Team a win.

Also I would like to see CA strength feats that put him on the level of Supes.

Blue Marvel & Captain Atom

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Flash doesn't wants to be tagged, he said as much, it is impossible in his world so he was avoiding supes, just because he doesn't punch doesn't mean he isn't moving at his best, on the contrary. Similing doesn't change the fact.

Superman was holding back. Proof? Instead of a finger he could have hit flash with his fist. Fist > Finger. Got it. Glad to help.

I will keep this scan and this thread in mind when you try to lowball pre dcnu Supes. Progress.

So we know that Superman, Flash and CA are very close in the speed department and that Hulk will be a statue to both. Now we need to know how fast BM is, if he has speed feats on par with Flash, CA and Supes. At worst it will be CA vs Superman with Hulk and BM being insignificant stautes at best we have 2 v 1 and Hulk will cost the Team a win.

Also I would like to see CA strength feats that put him on the level of Supes.

Flash never said he doesn't want to be tagged, he said he has never been tagged and after his Superman fight, everyone and their grandmother has tagged him. Doesn't mean that he was going all out against all of them unless you want to give every person that has tagged Flash the credit you are giving Superman. Also, like I've stated before, in his fight against Superman, time wasn't at a halt like it was during his showing with Captain Atom.

Lol...so Superman was purposely missing Flash in the previous panels. Wow!!!

By the way, you might want to read the comments before asserting me saying anything regarding speed. Surtur asked if CA was fast enough to hit Superman and I provided proof...so your comment about Hulk not being fast enough is laughable. Hulk would miss a punch at Captain Atom which would hit Superman killing him during the process.

Lol...Captain Atom doesn't need any strength fts...his overall power and showings puts him above Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash never said he doesn't want to be tagged, he said he has never been tagged and after his Superman fight, everyone and their grandmother has tagged him. Doesn't mean that he was going all out against all of them unless you want to give every person that has tagged Flash the credit you are giving Superman. Also, like I've stated before, in his fight against Superman, time wasn't at a halt like it was during his showing with Captain Atom.

Lol...so Superman was purposely missing Flash in the previous panels. Wow!!!

By the way, you might want to read the comments before asserting me saying anything regarding speed. Surtur asked if CA was fast enough to hit Superman and I provided proof...so your comment about Hulk not being fast enough is laughable. Hulk would miss a punch at Captain Atom which would hit Superman killing him during the process.

Lol...Captain Atom doesn't need any strength fts...his overall power and showings puts him above Superman.

He was moving around Supes at his speed and avoided him till Superman got used to it and pwnd him with his finger. Superman has become more powerful since then.

No he wasn't, he was surprised by flashs speed and just became faster and matched flash. A weaker Superman who has gronw more powerful since then, don't forget this,

CA is fast enough, I didn't say anything else. His speed is on the level of Supes and Flash. So all 3 beyond Hulk who will be a statue. And what about BM? How fast is he?

Show me Hulk having the speed to keep up with Supes, CA and Flash pls? Superman tanked worse and Hulk is weaker than supes, by feats. ^^

What showings? His power is nice but don't forget Firestorm. So show me those showings that put him above superman pls.

Again, nice job lowballing Supes. Never change Carter.

Ok.

After being vapourised by a volcano, he rebuilt his body from elements in the air:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2656384-captainatom_2_thegroup_003.jpg

Later on, he absorbs a nuke and redirects it without harming himself (carver's scans). What happened when Superman tanked a nuclear plant exploding? He nearly died.

He later on absorbs energy from multiple Atoms, so any energy output from Supes. let alone Hulk, will be negated:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2657729-captainatom_10_thegroup_012.jpg

He can also go intangible:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2656495-ca_09.jpg

Oh, btw, Captain Atom is FTL. Supes isn't, yet, right?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2657798-captainatom_12_thegroup_010.jpg

And he can pluck a memory from your head, and create it:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2657742-captainatom_11_thegroup_008.jpg

Imagine if he did the same with Kryptonite.

Sure, Firestorm can do it. But NOT at the speed of Cap. That's the difference.

Ok being vapourised by a volcano? A high feat?

Superman resisted currently multiple black holes...

Yet he was vaporised by a volcano, why didn't he abosrb it?

Superman can hit the intangible.

Superman suit prevents Supes from losing solar radiation too fast, he would last long enough to beat CA. Even with Knite near. Who did CA defeat on Supermans level btw?


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ok.

After being vapourised by a volcano, he rebuilt his body from elements in the air:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2656384-captainatom_2_thegroup_003.jpg

Later on, he absorbs a nuke and redirects it without harming himself (carver's scans). What happened when Superman tanked a nuclear plant exploding? He nearly died.

He later on absorbs energy from multiple Atoms, so any energy output from Supes. let alone Hulk, will be negated:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2657729-captainatom_10_thegroup_012.jpg

He can also go intangible:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2656495-ca_09.jpg

Oh, btw, Captain Atom is FTL. Supes isn't, yet, right?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2657798-captainatom_12_thegroup_010.jpg

And he can pluck a memory from your head, and create it:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2657742-captainatom_11_thegroup_008.jpg

Imagine if he did the same with Kryptonite.

Sure, Firestorm can do it. But NOT at the speed of Cap. That's the difference.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Ok being vapourised by a volcano? A high feat?

Superman resisted currently multiple black holes...

Yet he was vaporised by a volcano, why didn't he abosrb it?

Superman can hit the intangible.

Superman suit prevents Supes from losing solar radiation too fast, he would last long enough to beat CA. Even with Knite near. Who did CA defeat on Supermans level btw?

Lol. Hence why I said, LATER ON. It was to show he can reform his body at will, even if it was destroyed. Later on, he learns how to control his powers better, and absorbs energy.

Superman can hit, sure, except this is an energy absorber who can move FTL. So the Ghost Soldier example is moot, as CA has shown he's far faster than GS.

What if the suit was turned into Knite, and Superman is now wearing it? AND he leeches the solar from it?

Ah, the grasping of straws has started. By that argument, who has TOAA/Living Tribunal/Presence et al defeated on Superman's level? Cap Atom only had 12 issues so far, of which the first few are him learning about his powers.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
He was moving around Supes at his speed and avoided him till Superman got used to it and pwnd him with his finger. Superman has become more powerful since then.

No he wasn't, he was surprised by flashs speed and just became faster and matched flash. A weaker Superman who has gronw more powerful since then, don't forget this,

CA is fast enough, I didn't say anything else. His speed is on the level of Supes and Flash. So all 3 beyond Hulk who will be a statue. And what about BM? How fast is he?

Show me Hulk having the speed to keep up with Supes, CA and Flash pls? Superman tanked worse and Hulk is weaker than supes, by feats. ^^

What showings? His power is nice but don't forget Firestorm. So show me those showings that put him above superman pls.

Again, nice job lowballing Supes. Never change Carter.

He was still holding back against Superman and was dodging him with ease before Superman thumped him. If Flash wanted, that entire fight, he could have tossed Superman all across the city. That's how large the speed gap was.

So Flash standing still talking to Supes isnt Flash holding back? That's a going all out Flash? A flash that wrapped Superman cape around him instead of punching him. A Flash that smiled the entire baiting Superman is a going all out Flash? Ok? So Superman was holding back before when he was trying to grab/hit Flash? Proof please.

Why would i show you Hulk hitting Supes when they are on teams? Why would I show you him hitting Cap when I said Captain Atom would win? By the way, DCNU Darkseid is like a snail in comparison to Hulk based off speed fts and he was able to not only grab Supes but nearly squeeze the life out of him. A DCNU Mongul and Doomsday are MUCH slower than Hulk and they were able to pound on Superman. There you go. There's your proof. I agree with the fts comment...that's why I think Hulk would stomp DCNU Darkseid into the ground. His strength, speed, and durability FEATS are far better "unless you want to compare fts".

What has DCNU Firestorm done that puts him on the level on Atom? Scans please.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Ok being vapourised by a volcano? A high feat?

Superman resisted currently multiple black holes...

Yet he was vaporised by a volcano, why didn't he abosrb it?

Superman can hit the intangible.

Superman suit prevents Supes from losing solar radiation too fast, he would last long enough to beat CA. Even with Knite near. Who did CA defeat on Supermans level btw?

Superdoom resisted the Black holes.

Superman can partially heat vision intangible beings.

Where did you get the suit part from?

Originally posted by carver9
Superdoom resisted the Black holes.

Superman can partially heat vision intangible beings.

Where did you get the suit part from?

When did he affect intangible beings? When he faced Anguish, he couldn't touch her.

Originally posted by Golgo13
When did he affect intangible beings? When he faced Anguish, he couldn't touch her.

Yeah, she also koed him as well. What happened to her? Can't remember the guy name who Superman heat visioned but he pushed him back with it. It wasn't enough to call it damaging though or to use against Captain Atom unless Batman Prime is trying to say pushing Captain Atom back would defeat him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. Hence why I said, LATER ON. It was to show he can reform his body at will, even if it was destroyed. Later on, he learns how to control his powers better, and absorbs energy.

Superman can hit, sure, except this is an energy absorber who can move FTL. So the Ghost Soldier example is moot, as CA has shown he's far faster than GS.

What if the suit was turned into Knite, and Superman is now wearing it? AND he leeches the solar from it?

Ah, the grasping of straws has started. By that argument, who has TOAA/Living Tribunal/Presence et al defeated on Superman's level? Cap Atom only had 12 issues so far, of which the first few are him learning about his powers.

He can still be destroyed by a superior opponent.

Superman can move as fast as Flash. He also was transported in a far corner of the Universe and went back to earth in 60 days through multiple Black holes at that.

what if the suit resists it, as it is a highly advanced kryptonian tech?

Not grasping, just preventin a no limits fallacy. This is btw quite normal here, that is why Dr. Manhattan is not considered in Surfers league. Lack of feats is just that. Firestorm is CA power cap.

Originally posted by carver9
He was still holding back against Superman and was dodging him with ease before Superman thumped him. If Flash wanted, that entire fight, he could have tossed Superman all across the city. That's how large the speed gap was.

So Flash standing still talking to Supes isnt Flash holding back? That's a going all out Flash? A flash that wrapped Superman cape around him instead of punching him. A Flash that smiled the entire baiting Superman is a going all out Flash? Ok? So Superman was holding back before when he was trying to grab/hit Flash? Proof please.

Why would i show you Hulk hitting Supes when they are on teams? Why would I show you him hitting Cap when I said Captain Atom would win? By the way, DCNU Darkseid is like a snail in comparison to Hulk based off speed fts and he was able to not only grab Supes but nearly squeeze the life out of him. A DCNU Mongul and Doomsday are MUCH slower than Hulk and they were able to pound on Superman. There you go. There's your proof. I agree with the fts comment...that's why I think Hulk would stomp DCNU Darkseid into the ground. His strength, speed, and durability FEATS are far better "unless you want to compare fts".

What has DCNU Firestorm done that puts him on the level on Atom? Scans please.

You are talking BS as usual. Superman was holding back, on top of this he was at the beginning of his power and weaker than now. Still he was as fast as Flash. Would it be a fight he would be still fast enough to tag the flash. Simple. The comic shows he tagged him, even though flash didn't wanted to be tagged. That is what we go by. Thanks. Not your stupid lowbaling scenarios.

It is flash using his speed to do all this things and fail because Superman matched him when he had enough. Proof of Superman holding back. Fist > finger. Don't prentend to be that dense, even you...

So you think that Darkseid BECUASE he was able to react and grab Supes is slow. Because he matched a speedster? You are the smartest man on kmc, indeed... Yeah that prooves that hulk is faster Good job Carter.

Read up Firestorms fight against CA.

Originally posted by carver9
Superdoom resisted the Black holes.

Superman can partially heat vision intangible beings.

Where did you get the suit part from?

The Black Hole, singular, the first one. On his way back to earth he passed through some more . Reading comprehension isn't your strongest part or your hate for superman makes you blind so you can keep on lowballing.

Enough to hurt someone whose body can be vapourised by the heat of a volcano.

From comics. You know the stuff you don't read.

@Batman Prime...

Nothing during that showing proves Superman was holding back. He was trying to grab Flash and failed.

Superman didn't match him. Flash clearly had the speed edge and didn't throw a single hit when he had plenty of opportunities to do so.

Darkseid hit Superman and Darkseid is much slower, less durable, and isn't close to being as strong as Hulk 'based off fts'. Now if you want to compare fts between the two, let me know. Based off strength and speed fts, Grey Hulk is stronger than Darkseid. We can compare fts if you want. It's fun using your type of debating style. Let me know when you're ready to do this ft war. Grey Hulk strength and speed fts vs DCNU Darkseid strength and speed fts.

Originally posted by carver9
@Batman Prime...

Nothing during that showing proves Superman was holding back. He was trying to grab Flash and failed.

Superman didn't match him. Flash clearly had the speed edge and didn't throw a single hit when he had plenty of opportunities to do so.

Darkseid hit Superman and Darkseid is much slower, less durable, and isn't close to being as strong as Hulk 'based off fts'. Now if you want to compare fts between the two, let me know. Based off strength and speed fts, Grey Hulk is stronger than Darkseid. We can compare fts if you want. It's fun using your type of debating style. Let me know when you're ready to do this ft war. Grey Hulk strength and speed fts vs DCNU Darkseid strength and speed fts.

Except the finger instead of the fist. You know if I ko you with my finger instead of killing you with my fist, I hold back....

Didn't match him till he matched him and flicked him away. Also weaker Supes than now.

He is stronger by feats, destroyed worlds and overpowered superman and reacted to him, you proved that by admitting that he could tag Superman. You already lost.

You are the worst debater I ever met but you are the biggest lowballer I ever saw.

carver you're a lost case.

Originally posted by Reflassshh


carver you're a lost case.

Debating like Batman Prime? I agree.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Except the finger instead of the fist. You know if I ko you with my finger instead of killing you with my fist, I hold back....

Didn't match him till he matched him and flicked him away. Also weaker Supes than now.

He is stronger by feats, destroyed worlds and overpowered superman and reacted to him, you proved that by admitting that he could tag Superman. You already lost.

You are the worst debater I ever met but you are the biggest lowballer I ever saw.

Gotcha. So with that said, since Hulk has punched these people in the face and reacted to them, Gladiator, Surfer, Quick Silver, Hyperion, Jack of Hearts, and Northstar, that means he will not be a statue? Thanks for clarifying that for me unless this only goes for Darkseid. Let me know.

Hulk went hand to hand against Hyperion who is stronger than current Supes since he has pushed two universes apart and by Hickman own admission, he even states Hulk is stronger than Hyperion. Wait, does this type of debating only applies to Darkseid?

How did Darkseid destroy the world and provide a scan proving it?

I think you're the worst debater as well but your still my buddy though.

Originally posted by carver9
Gotcha. So with that said, since Hulk has punched these people in the face and reacted to them, Gladiator, Surfer, Quick Silver, Hyperion, Jack of Hearts, and Northstar, that means he will not be a statue? Thanks for clarifying that for me unless this only goes for Darkseid. Let me know.

Hulk went hand to hand against Hyperion who is stronger than current Supes since he has pushed two universes apart and by Hickman own admission, he even states Hulk is stronger than Hyperion. Wait, does this type of debating only applies to Darkseid?

How did Darkseid destroy the world and provide a scan proving it?

I think you're the worst debater as well but your still my buddy though.

It was YOUR point your stance that Darkseid reacted to superman so he has the same speed. Sometimes I think you are bizarro. So though the New Gods have real superspeed, unlike Hulk. I can tell you why Darkseid, who is faster than Supes, could tag Supes. You didn't read the comic, so. Superman was weakened and just brought back by Batman and he was still a rookie with his powers^^. I hope that clarifies it completely. BTW Darkseid always had Superspeed, it was always in his powerset like his OE. That is why, if you read comics, you know why he can react to speedsters.

Hyperion hold two Planets apart that broke under the pressure. It's good but nothing special, more of a durability feat, he was just in the way. No that is a bad debating style, going by what writers say outside of a comic, that is your habit not mine. I never used something like this for Darkseid.

By fighting with Highfigther. Search for it or better buy the comic.

Edit: At least you admit that Hulk will be a statue to FlASH; Superman and CA. Progress.

Originally posted by carver9
Debating like Batman Prime? I agree. You're the one saying Mr fixit is >Darkseid in strength and speed

Originally posted by Reflassshh
You're the one saying Mr fixit is >Darkseid in strength and speed

Reread ALL of my posts including his and see why I said that. No one sane thinks Grey Hulk is stronger than Darkseid. Read.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
It was YOUR point your stance that Darkseid reacted to superman so he has the same speed. Sometimes I think you are bizarro. So though the New Gods have real superspeed, unlike Hulk. I can tell you why Darkseid, who is faster than Supes, could tag Supes. You didn't read the comic, so. Superman was weakened and just brought back by Batman and he was still a rookie with his powers^^. I hope that clarifies it completely. BTW Darkseid always had Superspeed, it was always in his powerset like his OE. That is why, if you read comics, you know why he can react to speedsters.

Hyperion hold two Planets apart that broke under the pressure. It's good but nothing special, more of a durability feat, he was just in the way. No that is a bad debating style, going by what writers say outside of a comic, that is your habit not mine. I never used something like this for Darkseid.

By fighting with Highfigther. Search for it or better buy the comic.

Edit: At least you admit that Hulk will be a statue to FlASH; Superman and CA. Progress.

Gotcha. So that type of debating style goes both ways. Hulk reacted to Gladiator which means he can react to someone slower like DCNU Superman. Glad we got that out of the way.

Where did it say he was weakened? Scan.

What pressure? What caused the planet's/universe to explode? Hyperion also tanked the destruction of two universe and Hulk made him bleed with a punch. Based off fts (YOU'RE DEBATING STYLE. Said that for reflash), Hulk should be able to blow anyone here up with a punch. Right?

You're passing Superman fts to Darkseid. Based off fts, who is Superior, Hulk or DCNU Darkseid?

What fts does High Father have? Is he stronger, faster, and more durable than Hulk (remember, we are using your debating style here)? If he is, provide scans proving it, then I will back my claim up with scans.

Originally posted by Reflassshh


carver you're a lost case.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
You're the one saying Mr fixit is >Darkseid in strength and speed
facepalm

Wow. It is try what they say about carver9.

Originally posted by Angel Watching
Wow. It is try what they say about carver9.

Reread everything that was said in this thread.

Carver did NOT say that Fixit > Darkseid.

He was applying Prof's debating tactic.

Prof: By combat feats, Superman>Cap Atom. Who has Cap Atom beaten who was on Superman's level? As an example, Dr. Manhattan.

Carver: By that logic, Fixit's feats > Darkseid's feats.

THAT is what he said. Only, and only IF, we use Prof's logic (their speed/strength feats), then Superman>Cap, and therefore, Fixit>Darkseid.

As for this thread,

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
He can still be destroyed by a superior opponent.

Back when he was inexperienced. And even if destroyed, he can reform himself, without it taking a long time. So still not sure what Superman can do.


Was that 60 days a FTL feat? How far is a'far corner'? I already have Cap specifically saying he's FTL, and actually outracing the Big Bang....At best, Superman is =Cap, and at worst (which is what I'm leaning towards), Cap>Superman in speed. Even if they are equal in speed, Cap can reform at will IF Superman somehow manages to destroy him.


How well did his super advanced suit fare when General Lane came a'knockin'? Answer: it was shredded. Being highly advanced Kryp tech means nothing. Not to mention, I haven't seen any transmutation resistance feats from it yet.


First, isn't that what you're arguing with the Kryptonian suit? IT's highly advanced, therefore it will resist Cap A (despite no proof)?

Secondly, Firestorm is also a schizo idiot, with human level reaction times and a human mindset. Which is....nothing like Cap. So the example is moot. Plus, I haven't seen Firestorm cure cancer, or use telepathy, resurrect the dead, or teleport. Not to mention, when Megala had the same powers as Firestorm, and tried taking Cap on, he got wtfpwned.

BFR is still on, right?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver did NOT say that Fixit > Darkseid.

He was applying Prof's debating tactic.

Prof: By combat feats, Superman>Cap Atom. Who has Cap Atom beaten who was on Superman's level? As an example, Dr. Manhattan.

Carver: By that logic, Fixit's feats > Darkseid's feats.

THAT is what he said. Only, and only IF, we use Prof's logic (their speed/strength feats), then Superman>Cap, and therefore, Fixit>Darkseid.






At least someone is keeping up with what is going on here.

Originally posted by carver9


At least someone is keeping up with what is going on here.

Only I get you, carver.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Only I get you, carver.



But I made it simple for anyone with any type of comprehension skill to understand. In the same sentence I brought up Grey Hulk, I said "using your type of debating style".

Originally posted by carver9
@Batman Prime...

Nothing during that showing proves Superman was holding back. He was trying to grab Flash and failed.

Superman didn't match him. Flash clearly had the speed edge and didn't throw a single hit when he had plenty of opportunities to do so.

Darkseid hit Superman and Darkseid is much slower, less durable, and isn't close to being as strong as Hulk 'based off fts'. Now if you want to compare fts between the two, let me know. Based off strength and speed fts, Grey Hulk is stronger than Darkseid. We can compare fts if you want. It's fun using your type of debating style. Let me know when you're ready to do this ft war. Grey Hulk strength and speed fts vs DCNU Darkseid strength and speed fts.

So ignoring the Cap vs Superman speed debate. I just wanted to make mention to Prof you are being extremely generous in your interpretations of the DCNu Flash and Superman exchange. Especially saying a holding back Superman was able to easily tag a balls to the walls Flash.

I think myself it is pretty clear that Flash was easily able to outmaneuver Superman as he was practically mocking him the entire time. Superman wised up that he couldn't outright catch Flash. So he managed to lure Flash in a position to catch him off guard. As in Flash easily dodged the fist but didn't factor in Superman being fast enough to flick his finger and catch the Flash by surprise.

To me that exchange means Superman can tag Flash if he outsmarts him but that he most likely on average isn't touching the Flash.

Which isn't a bad feat considering what DCNu Flash has already done. It is actually a really good feat for Superman.

Originally posted by Newjak
So ignoring the Cap vs Superman speed debate. I just wanted to make mention to Prof you are being extremely generous in your interpretations of the DCNu Flash and Superman exchange. Especially saying a holding back Superman was able to easily tag a balls to the walls Flash.

I think myself it is pretty clear that Flash was easily able to outmaneuver Superman as he was practically mocking him the entire time. Superman wised up that he couldn't outright catch Flash. So he managed to lure Flash in a position to catch him off guard. As in Flash easily dodged the fist but didn't factor in Superman being fast enough to flick his finger and catch the Flash by surprise.

To me that exchange means Superman can tag Flash if he outsmarts him but that he most likely on average isn't touching the Flash.

Which isn't a bad feat considering what DCNu Flash has already done. It is actually a really good feat for Superman.

Originally posted by carver9


But I made it simple for anyone with any type of comprehension skill to understand. In the same sentence I brought up Grey Hulk, I said "using your type of debating style".

The only possible explanation, then, is that you're terrible at this.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The only possible explanation, then, is that you're terrible at this.

For some speed feats.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Well, Superman went from Pluto to Earth in less than one minute and arrived before than a cloaked teleportation.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_speedfeat0qsu98.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_speedfeat1y3uc7.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_speedfeat2xjuyq.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_speedfeat3x3u20.jpg

Its both a speed feat and reaction feat. Because he has to search entire planet before he could reach the island.
Flash was running at top speed here to the point he covered the planet six times over.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2404108-flashsixtime1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2404109-flashsixtime2.jpg

Do you think Invincible can keep up with Flash at that speed? Because Batman ordered Flash to run at his top speed to burn out the venom in his body. And current Flash can operate in femtoseconds.

A bunch of other speed feats. Like a weakened Superman going to sun and blitzing Lex back before he could get up after being back at full power.

http://i.imgur.com/XGDrXFh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XlxXaqp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BRJ39iN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yYMT0xZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Op3IINp.jpg

Or flying around Earth three hundred times in a very short time after Apollo amped him with a sunlight blast.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3773690-0q.png

And his reaction time is so fast that he can process data that supercomputers could have taken years to process IN SECONDS.

http://i.imgur.com/SSY6trJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/L50cCAG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Cl8BuXc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wmvtboM.jpg

By definition a supercomputer can process data at nanoseconds.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercomputer

So you get an idea of how fast he is.

Then there is blitzing the whole planet while weakened by kryptonite in the middle of a sentence.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/20318972/7645489.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/20318973/7787807.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/20318976/6948729.jpg.html

So yeah, carter is ****ing wrong.

Originally posted by Newjak
So ignoring the Cap vs Superman speed debate. I just wanted to make mention to Prof you are being extremely generous in your interpretations of the DCNu Flash and Superman exchange. Especially saying a holding back Superman was able to easily tag a balls to the walls Flash.

I think myself it is pretty clear that Flash was easily able to outmaneuver Superman as he was practically mocking him the entire time. Superman wised up that he couldn't outright catch Flash. So he managed to lure Flash in a position to catch him off guard. As in Flash easily dodged the fist but didn't factor in Superman being fast enough to flick his finger and catch the Flash by surprise.

To me that exchange means Superman can tag Flash if he outsmarts him but that he most likely on average isn't touching the Flash.

Which isn't a bad feat considering what DCNu Flash has already done. It is actually a really good feat for Superman.
Superman can easily keep up with top speed Flash.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2404108-flashsixtime1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2404109-flashsixtime2.jpg

That Superman in JL 2 was a younger, weaker superman so basing his current speed is faulty.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver did NOT say that Fixit > Darkseid.

He was applying Prof's debating tactic.

Prof: By combat feats, Superman>Cap Atom. Who has Cap Atom beaten who was on Superman's level? As an example, Dr. Manhattan.

Carver: By that logic, Fixit's feats > Darkseid's feats.

THAT is what he said. Only, and only IF, we use Prof's logic (their speed/strength feats), then Superman>Cap, and therefore, Fixit>Darkseid.

As for this thread,



Back when he was inexperienced. And even if destroyed, he can reform himself, without it taking a long time. So still not sure what Superman can do.


Was that 60 days a FTL feat? How far is a'far corner'? I already have Cap specifically saying he's FTL, and actually outracing the Big Bang....At best, Superman is =Cap, and at worst (which is what I'm leaning towards), Cap>Superman in speed. Even if they are equal in speed, Cap can reform at will IF Superman somehow manages to destroy him.


How well did his super advanced suit fare when General Lane came a'knockin'? Answer: it was shredded. Being highly advanced Kryp tech means nothing. Not to mention, I haven't seen any transmutation resistance feats from it yet.


First, isn't that what you're arguing with the Kryptonian suit? IT's highly advanced, therefore it will resist Cap A (despite no proof)?

Secondly, Firestorm is also a schizo idiot, with human level reaction times and a human mindset. Which is....nothing like Cap. So the example is moot. Plus, I haven't seen Firestorm cure cancer, or use telepathy, resurrect the dead, or teleport. Not to mention, when Megala had the same powers as Firestorm, and tried taking Cap on, he got wtfpwned.

BFR is still on, right?
That's why Firestorm overpowered him by city level blasts and scattered his essence across space time, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman can easily keep up with top speed Flash.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2404108-flashsixtime1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2404109-flashsixtime2.jpg

That Superman in JL 2 was a younger, weaker superman so basing his current speed is faulty.

Flash wasn't running at optimum speed, though. He was hurting with every step. You can even see him sweating, which Flash doesn't normally do.
What was the next scan after that?

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's why Firestorm overpowered him by city level blasts and scattered his essence across space time, right?

Wasn't that because he had absorbed most of Firestorm's powers?

Well, considering far less than a city level blast did this to Superman:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_medium/7/72718/3782380-superman-wonder+woman+%282013-%29+006-019.jpg

And the circumstances that led to it could be replicated by CapAtom, not the best example to bring up.

Superman had been beaten up, then tanked a nuclear explosion (which are < city level), and nearly died. Both can be achievable by Cap. And whilst you might bring up the fact they were beaten up by sunamped Kryptonians, big deal:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72718/3782194-superman-wonder+woman+%282013-%29+006-014.jpg

'Even now, they're hard to kill'.

So less than city destroying blasts > sunamped Kryptonians.

Firestorm fired city-level blasts, then scattered him across space time. Superman is not able to achieve this.

So moot point.

Even IF he could do this...Cap was able to reconsititute himself. So still a moot point. Whereas IF Cap was able to do that to Superman, he's ALSO be able to continue leeching power from Supes, preventing him from healing back.

Am only bringing up the low showings, to show how they can be twisted....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash wasn't running at optimum speed, though. He was hurting with every step. You can even see him sweating, which Flash doesn't normally do.
What was the next scan after that?



No telling what speed Flash was going at during that scene. He also circled the earth 'before' Superman showed up and no time was given on how long it took him to do so.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wasn't that because he had absorbed most of Firestorm's powers?

Well, considering far less than a city level blast did this to Superman:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_medium/7/72718/3782380-superman-wonder+woman+%282013-%29+006-019.jpg

And the circumstances that led to it could be replicated by CapAtom, not the best example to bring up.

Superman had been beaten up, then tanked a nuclear explosion (which are < city level), and nearly died. Both can be achievable by Cap. And whilst you might bring up the fact they were beaten up by sunamped Kryptonians, big deal:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72718/3782194-superman-wonder+woman+%282013-%29+006-014.jpg

'Even now, they're hard to kill'.

So less than city destroying blasts > sunamped Kryptonians.

Firestorm fired city-level blasts, then scattered him across space time. Superman is not able to achieve this.

So moot point.

Even IF he could do this...Cap was able to reconsititute himself. So still a moot point. Whereas IF Cap was able to do that to Superman, he's ALSO be able to continue leeching power from Supes, preventing him from healing back.

Am only bringing up the low showings, to show how they can be twisted....

You should've posted the Superman vs the Predator lime creature fight. He took Superman out with a city block level blast. Sad that I have to do everything around here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman can easily keep up with top speed Flash.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2404108-flashsixtime1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2404109-flashsixtime2.jpg

That Superman in JL 2 was a younger, weaker superman so basing his current speed is faulty. how did you take from my post that superman can't keep up with flash?

I said based on those scans that superman can potentially hit the flash if he outsmarts him. That statement alone means he can keep up. Just flash was clearly faster in those scans and prof was being extremely generous to superman being faster than flash based on those scans.

Secondly you make it sound as if flash has not gotten better feats as well since that fight.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash wasn't running at optimum speed, though. He was hurting with every step. You can even see him sweating, which Flash doesn't normally do.
What was the next scan after that?
What are you talking about? Batman told Flash to run as fast as he can in the previous issue.

Read Batman The Dark Knight 3-4.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What are you talking about? Batman told Flash to run as fast as he can in the previous issue.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2d85534.jpg

How does that equate to running at optimum?

Next time you're sick, and I tell you to run as fast as you can....will you be able to get a new PB?

Or if I poison you so that everytime you run, you feel extreme pain - you're gonna tell me you're running at optimum?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wasn't that because he had absorbed most of Firestorm's powers? No.

After getting beaten up by two trans tier being in sundipped kryptonians? I could use Superman surviving attacks from Multitude which destroyed 230 planets instantly.

Your point is? Two sunamped kryptonians would beat the shit out of any herald being.

Ha, enjoying imitating carver?

Ha, the same writer had Superman KO Firestorm's peer Major Force with a finger flick.

Dr. Light was doing that too. Superman oneshot killed him. While having kryptonite in his brain.

So.........like carver?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How does that equate to running at optimum?

Next time you're sick, and I tell you to run as fast as you can....will you be able to get a new PB?

Or if I poison you so that everytime you run, you feel extreme pain - you're gonna tell me you're running at optimum? Anhilehend won't understand your points and cannot even grasp anything other than scan posting feats.

Originally posted by carver9


No telling what speed Flash was going at during that scene. He also circled the earth 'before' Superman showed up and no time was given on how long it took him to do so. Shut up.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How does that equate to running at optimum?

Next time you're sick, and I tell you to run as fast as you can....will you be able to get a new PB?

Or if I poison you so that everytime you run, you feel extreme pain - you're gonna tell me you're running at optimum?
facepalm

Flash was having extreme pain when he was running at top speed due to the poison. Batman said to him "run as fast as fast as you can to burn off the poison". In darksaint/carver world that means "run at a lower speed than you can because I can't see Superman matching flash."Originally posted by carver9
You should've posted the Superman vs the Predator lime creature fight. He took Superman out with a city block level blast. Sad that I have to do everything around here.
That was a nervous system attack as I've shown you before. Seriously, shut the **** up.
Originally posted by Newjak
how did you take from my post that superman can't keep up with flash?

I said based on those scans that superman can potentially hit the flash if he outsmarts him. That statement alone means he can keep up. Just flash was clearly faster in those scans and prof was being extremely generous to superman being faster than flash based on those scans.

Secondly you make it sound as if flash has not gotten better feats as well since that fight.
You insinuating that Superman can't keep up with Flash if Flash doesn't wants him to.

That has never been the case.

So being poisoned means you are running at your best and in no way does it impede your performance whatsoever.



#neverchange

I did get you, so i apologize

it's just that you've made pretty ridiculous statments about hulk in the past, that's why i misinterpreted.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No.

After getting beaten up by two trans tier being in sundipped kryptonians? I could use Superman surviving attacks from Multitude which destroyed 230 planets instantly.

Your point is? Two sunamped kryptonians would beat the shit out of any herald being.

My point was in the next paragraoh, which you just glossed over with an insult. It still does not take away from the point, though. The nuclear reactor did more damage than the 'trans tier' beings. Which you still haven't addressed. Which was the main point of me bringing it up.



So insults and...I'm not sure what Major Force/Dr Light have to do with this, lol. Neither of them are the same as Captain Atom.

Originally posted by abhilegend]


Flash was having extreme pain when he was running at top speed due to the poison. Batman said to him "run as fast as fast as you can to burn off the poison". In darksaint/carver world that means "run at a lower speed than you can because I can't see Superman matching flash."

It means that you're not at optimum. I know he was in extreme pain from the poison, hence my statement:



In my world, it means 'run as fast as you can'. Do you seriously, honestly, hand on your heart, believe that Flash was running as fast as he could AT THAT TIME? Because, surprise surprise, I DO TOO.

But running as fast as he could AT THAT TIME is NOT the Flash running as fast as he can AT PEAK. Because.....well, he was poisoned. And I am truly mystified as to why you can't see this....

Originally posted by abhilegend
Shut up.


facepalm

Flash was having extreme pain when he was running at top speed due to the poison. Batman said to him "run as fast as fast as you can to burn off the poison". In darksaint/carver world that means "run at a lower speed than you can because I can't see Superman matching flash."
That was a nervous system attack as I've shown you before. Seriously, shut the **** up.

You insinuating that Superman can't keep up with Flash if Flash doesn't wants him to.

That has never been the case. I think those scans pretty much showed that flash was fast enough to keep superman from touching him until superman managed to catch him by surprise by out thinking him. The fact that superman was able to do that means he is in the same ballpark but it was pretty clear up until that point superman couldn't touch the flash.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It means that you're not at optimum. I know he was in extreme pain from the poison, hence my statement: And that's why he was running at his top speed as Batman said. To burn the poison out. You are making an assumption that was never stated in the comic.



Those are the same thing as Batman specified in the comic. "Run as fast as you CAN".


Not "Run as fast as you can while you're poisoned." The poison had no affect on Flash's speed, it accelerated his metabolism in fact.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And that's why he was running at his top speed as Batman said. To burn the poison out. You are making an assumption that was never stated in the comic.



Those are the same thing as Batman specified in the comic. "Run as fast as you CAN".


Not "Run as fast as you can while you're poisoned." The poison had no affect on Flash's speed, it accelerated his metabolism in fact.

Wow, OK.

Just out of curiousity, do you do any kind of sports?

Originally posted by Newjak
I think those scans pretty much showed that flash was fast enough to keep superman from touching him until superman managed to catch him by surprise by out thinking him. The fact that superman was able to do that means he is in the same ballpark but it was pretty clear up until that point superman couldn't touch the flash.
That doesn't means the same thing. If you can stop a being from even touching at will, then you're a step above the said being in speed. Not in the same ballpark.

What Justice League showed that is Flash was faster than Superman. Not that Superman had to outsmart Flash, he just predicted where Flash would be and tagged him with his own superspeed. No need to outsmart anybody and if Flash was so much faster, he should've dodged the finger flick too. He didn't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And that's why he was running at his top speed as Batman said. To burn the poison out. You are making an assumption that was never stated in the comic.



Those are the same thing as Batman specified in the comic. "Run as fast as you CAN".


Not "Run as fast as you can while you're poisoned." The poison had no affect on Flash's speed, it accelerated his metabolism in fact. Run as fast as you can implies work within your limitations placed on you by the poison. You deny context all day long and live in your own everything benefits Superman world despite the illogical stances you always seem to take.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wow, OK.

Just out of curiousity, do you do any kind of sports?
I do. Why?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


My point was in the next paragraoh, which you just glossed over with an insult. It still does not take away from the point, though. The nuclear reactor did more damage than the 'trans tier' beings. Which you still haven't addressed. Which was the main point of me bringing it up. Did you know why it did the damage? Because the nuclear radiation replaced the sunlight in superman's cells. And that's a major healing feat from Superman too. Not that the reactor was more powerful than Zod and Faora while sunamped. That's just ridiculous.





Missed the whole damn point.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Run as fast as you can implies work within your limitations placed on you by the poison. You deny context all day long and live in your own everything benefits Superman world despite the illogical stances you always seem to take.

It wasn't just implication, though. Flash was sweating, and he was saying how it hurt. He wasn't operating at peak efficiency.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I do. Why?

Did you know why it did the damage? Because the nuclear radiation replaced the sunlight in superman's cells. And that's a major healing feat from Superman too. Not that the reactor was more powerful than Zod and Faora while sunamped. That's just ridiculous.





Missed the whole damn point.

Because I want you to see if you can do something for me.

Go and do your sports. Measure your performance - your absolute best. do it over a number of days, and take your best showing ever.

Then, when you're feeling unwell, do it again. Run as fast as you can. Lift as much as you can. Whatever it iis you do. Are you able to replicate your personal best? Remember, I told you to do the best you can.

As for the nuclear radiation driving out the solar radiation - THAT's the point I was trying to make. Captain Atom can replicate what that reactor did. Superman cannot replicate what Firestorm did. THAT'S my point. And that's why I was ignoring the Major Force/Dr Light parallels. Because Atom does not die if Superman uses HV on him like he did with Dr Light. And Major Force does not have the speed feats of Captain Atom.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It wasn't just implication, though. Flash was sweating, and he was saying how it hurt. He wasn't operating at peak efficiency.
He was hurting and sweating because the toxin was essentially an adrenaline boost. It increased his metabolism and essentially made him faster.



So don't make assumptions untill you read the comic.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because I want you to see if you can do something for me.

Go and do your sports. Measure your performance - your absolute best. do it over a number of days, and take your best showing ever.

Then, when you're feeling unwell, do it again. Run as fast as you can. Lift as much as you can. Whatever it iis you do. Are you able to replicate your personal best? Remember, I told you to do the best you can. After an adrenaline boost? Gotcha.

CAN is the key word. And it was possible in that comic due to superman being cut off from sunlight in that reactor. Here it wouldn't be possible. Well, its a stupid point. He can be dispersed by excessive power. Moot. Superman is faster than Atom anyway.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It wasn't just implication, though. Flash was sweating, and he was saying how it hurt. He wasn't operating at peak efficiency. I guess in abhilegend's world if your liver is failing and someone says you are running as fast as you can then that means a personal record. I am glad you finally see him for all his double standards and ridiculous stances.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He was hurting and sweating because the toxin was essentially an adrenaline boost. It increased his metabolism and essentially made him faster.



So don't make assumptions untill you read the comic.

I take it as you are calling my statements 'assumptions' and yours be implication are 'facts', you have scans of this? That it made him faster?

Because otherwise....you're just assuming.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't means the same thing. If you can stop a being from even touching at will, then you're a step above the said being in speed. Not in the same ballpark.

What Justice League showed that is Flash was faster than Superman. Not that Superman had to outsmart Flash, he just predicted where Flash would be and tagged him with his own superspeed. No need to outsmart anybody and if Flash was so much faster, he should've dodged the finger flick too. He didn't. there are professional fighters you could make you miss every time. They are faster then you but they are still humans and the error you still have a chance to hit them.

The fact that I have discuss them in human relative shows that superman is in the ballpark but flash is still faster.

And superman did use his supersede to hit flash. If he didn't then he would have missed. He outsmarted flash by predicting where he was going to be and by catching flash unaware and in a position he could hit flash. That is called out smarting your opponent abhi.

I honestly think you just want superman be to be as fast as the flash which is not the case based on that scene.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I take it as you are calling my statements 'assumptions' and yours be implication are 'facts', you have scans of this? That it made him faster?

Because otherwise....you're just assuming.
Yes, I'm calling your stance here "assuming".

I will post the scans soon.

Originally posted by Newjak
there are professional fighters you could make you miss every time. They are faster then you but they are still humans and the error you still have a chance to hit them.

The fact that I have discuss them in human relative shows that superman is in the ballpark but flash is still faster.

And superman did use his supersede to hit flash. If he didn't then he would have missed. He outsmarted flash by predicting where he was going to be and by catching flash unaware and in a position he could hit flash. That is called out smarting your opponent abhi.

I honestly think you just want superman be to be as fast as the flash which is not the case based on that scene.
What the? I said Flash was clearly faster than Superman there. The difference is you think Flash can make himself untouchable to superman if he wants, the comics say otherwise.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, I'm calling your stance here "assuming".

I will post the scans soon.

Oh, they're not already posted?

I was referring to the scans of him and Superman together. Not later, when he hits his peak.

I'm talking specifically about the scans where Superman is having a conversation with him. At which point in those scans does it say Flash is amped in his speed?

Because...it doesn't say in those scans that he's faster. And I say you're 'assuming' he's faster because of the poison.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What the? I said Flash was clearly faster than Superman there. The difference is you think Flash can make himself untouchable to superman if he wants, the comics say otherwise. I said superman has a chance. Just that he needs to be able to outsmart Flash to do so. Otherwise flash should be able to avoid him Luke he was doing.

Meanwhile. Blue Marvel is crying that no one takes him seriously.

I think he is more useful in this fight than Hulk. And I would probably take team 2 for the healthy majority.

But Hulk can beat Blue Marvel though.

Did I say he couldn't. I said Blue Marvel is more useful in this fight. Which he is. He has better superspeed and flight. Hulk is grounded and can't contribute much to the match unless the other team goes to him. And please carver don't try and convince me Hulks ability to jump counters flight. It is not a good substitute.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I don't think you skip information if the life of someone you love depends on it. Also, scientific books are sometimes unfogiving. At least in my studies I read the stuff I have too carefully, to understand it properly in order to pass the exams and not to screw up the projects. But then again, I prefer an A over an B.

Who cares how long it takes you to read.. many can read much faster than you and pages in seconds... Superman being vastly smarter than you as well would surely mean he could get the gist of what needs to be done without reading every single word of every single pages. Prove he did so and it's a solid feat.. if not.. it's pretty meh

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, they're not already posted?

I was referring to the scans of him and Superman together. Not later, when he hits his peak.

I'm talking specifically about the scans where Superman is having a conversation with him. At which point in those scans does it say Flash is amped in his speed?

Because...it doesn't say in those scans that he's faster. And I say you're 'assuming' he's faster because of the poison.
It was a weird logic. The toxin was activated via adrenaline, so the faster Flash ran the more affect it had. But you had to reach the peak of your adrenaline boost to deactivate the toxin.

http://www.placesandpredators.com/52/TDK6a.jpg

Meaning Flash had to run at top speed to burn the poison out.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g9kDidkM9To/T0ZR9bO_FoI/AAAAAAAAAEg/argn8tGkHII/s1600/DSC01320.JPG

"Push him over the edge."

And as you know Superman was right behind Flash all the time as he burned all the poison at top speed. For 24 hours straight.

Originally posted by Newjak
Did I say he couldn't. I said Blue Marvel is more useful in this fight. Which he is. He has better superspeed and flight. Hulk is grounded and can't contribute much to the match unless the other team goes to him. And please carver don't try and convince me Hulks ability to jump counters flight. It is not a good substitute.

Better super speed?

Get what you're saying about flight but I also think you are underestimating his leaping abilities as well.

Destroys the plane while in the air.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--9wzdQwX1Yo/UrH43opx0YI/AAAAAAAAYtY/OgA3vPnYYa4/s1600/Indestructible+Hulk+%2317.INH+018.jpg

Hits the ground and then jump back up cloud height to get the bomb out of Pym hand. Do i need to explain this showing?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VjXkN0ZkswQ/UrH5Yhn0ZlI/AAAAAAAAYtg/xHNzbMJ7nCE/s1600/Indestructible+Hulk+%2317.INH+019.jpg

What Blue Marvel speed fts puts him above Hulk?

Does anyone know the issue number when Batman was injected with the toxin?

Originally posted by carver9


But I made it simple for anyone with any type of comprehension skill to understand. In the same sentence I brought up Grey Hulk, I said "using your type of debating style".
You're too evolved nowadays. Tone it down a bit.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash wasn't fighting back and as shown per the scans, wasn't even moving that fast. Look at the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th panel...paper around them is shuffling around whereas in the scan I presented, time was at a halt. Flash wasn't moving close to the speed he showed with Captain Atom.

Nice medical book reading though. Still don't think it compares to someone that see time at a halt. first of all, the CA atom feat was what a few microseconds? Superman should be at least the speed of light in movement.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Who cares how long it takes you to read.. many can read much faster than you and pages in seconds... Superman being vastly smarter than you as well would surely mean he could get the gist of what needs to be done without reading every single word of every single pages. Prove he did so and it's a solid feat.. if not.. it's pretty meh lol, you are going against writer's intentions with made up stuff, which is a form of trolling. The author made no attempt to show that it is was Superman's intelligence and ability to skip over words as the reason he read all of those books that fast.

Originally posted by carver9
Time doesn't mean a thing to someone like Captain Atom who sees the world in slow motion and was also able to keep up with Flash and converse with him who was moving so fast that time and bullets stopped.

Moving so fast bullets stop is not Superman level. Moving so fast he can converse with Flash. Okay..how fast was Flash going at the time?

Also, you say seeing things as if time is frozen is better then the medical book feat, what are you basing this off of? What, may I ask, is the minimum speed required to see time as frozen?



Umm...nope, does not compute. Asking why Captain Atom wins and asking about his speed is me calling him slow? Then you say I am the one who needs to read...?

I sure did say pre Nu Cap was not on Superman's level of speed, which is true. Though even that is not technically calling the guy slow.

Originally posted by h1a8
lol, you are going against writer's intentions with made up stuff, which is a form of trolling. The author made no attempt to show that it is was Superman's intelligence and ability to skip over words as the reason he read all of those books that fast.

Screw going against the writers intentions, he is going against what we were shown and told in the comic. So as far as I am concerned? You shouldn't debate it, because there is no debate here . You might as well debate whether or not the sun is going to rise tomorrow.

Is the feat silly? Sure, but then that is par for the course in comics.

Originally posted by carver9
Gotcha. So that type of debating style goes both ways. Hulk reacted to Gladiator which means he can react to someone slower like DCNU Superman. Glad we got that out of the way.

Where did it say he was weakened? Scan.

What pressure? What caused the planet's/universe to explode? Hyperion also tanked the destruction of two universe and Hulk made him bleed with a punch. Based off fts (YOU'RE DEBATING STYLE. Said that for reflash), Hulk should be able to blow anyone here up with a punch. Right?

You're passing Superman fts to Darkseid. Based off fts, who is Superior, Hulk or DCNU Darkseid?

What fts does High Father have? Is he stronger, faster, and more durable than Hulk (remember, we are using your debating style here)? If he is, provide scans proving it, then I will back my claim up with scans.

In a comic dear carver he will but in a forum battle Glads will trash Hulk.

He was taken out by the OE before this and was in DS machine that was about to make him a Parademon, read the goddamn comic.

Read the comic, again. It is stated that DS destroyed it. No because energy durability != blunt force durability, Thanos is the best example here.

No I am not. Based of feats Darkseid > Superman > Hulk.

His fight against Darkseid. Catch up with the comics, the New Gods are back btw.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver did NOT say that Fixit > Darkseid.

He was applying Prof's debating tactic.

Prof: By combat feats, Superman>Cap Atom. Who has Cap Atom beaten who was on Superman's level? As an example, Dr. Manhattan.

Carver: By that logic, Fixit's feats > Darkseid's feats.

THAT is what he said. Only, and only IF, we use Prof's logic (their speed/strength feats), then Superman>Cap, and therefore, Fixit>Darkseid.



So ok, Superman by feats > CA. And Darkseid beat Superman (a rookie though) which makes him > Superman.

Fixit has never defeated someone on Darkseids level or Supermans level, his asteroid feat, if Carver was referring to it was done with help and he was more like a bullet.

Darkseid beating the whole rookie JLA and Superman is the feat that puts him above Superman, who by feats is already above his "peers".

So for your information. My debating tactic. See the feats, see the fights, use common sense and apply it to what you know.

Carvers tactic, take Hulks best feats and blow them out of proportion, dismiss Supermans best feats and always stick to the lowes (lowballing), use the Carter Sense, and preptend you know it better. If that doesn't work, leave out context or ingore common sense. ^^


Originally posted by DarkSaint85

As for this thread,



Back when he was inexperienced. And even if destroyed, he can reform himself, without it taking a long time. So still not sure what Superman can do.


Was that 60 days a FTL feat? How far is a'far corner'? I already have Cap specifically saying he's FTL, and actually outracing the Big Bang....At best, Superman is =Cap, and at worst (which is what I'm leaning towards), Cap>Superman in speed. Even if they are equal in speed, Cap can reform at will IF Superman somehow manages to destroy him.


How well did his super advanced suit fare when General Lane came a'knockin'? Answer: it was shredded. Being highly advanced Kryp tech means nothing. Not to mention, I haven't seen any transmutation resistance feats from it yet.


First, isn't that what you're arguing with the Kryptonian suit? IT's highly advanced, therefore it will resist Cap A (despite no proof)?

Secondly, Firestorm is also a schizo idiot, with human level reaction times and a human mindset. Which is....nothing like Cap. So the example is moot. Plus, I haven't seen Firestorm cure cancer, or use telepathy, resurrect the dead, or teleport. Not to mention, when Megala had the same powers as Firestorm, and tried taking Cap on, he got wtfpwned.

BFR is still on, right?

So as a rookie he was burned by a Volcano, the HV could be enough to do the same to a more experienced CA then.

Superdoom, raced from on end of the Galaxy to the other withing moments, even if you say some days it would make this far more than ftl. According to Carter the speed didn't stack . So i am leaning towards them being equals in that department, also because of the medical book feat.
If Superman succeedes in dispersing his atoms for long enough, this would be a forum win.

Also we see that Superman could freeze H'el timewarped atoms, in time, who knows what effect he could have on CA. I can see CA winning some, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he is above the HH tier, not yet anyway.

Sure, it still helps him as it did on Krypton under a Red sun, and since both are so damn fast, some minutes of power are enough.

There is also no proof that CA could suck the energy out of Supermans body, what is your point? That we both have a tactic that can't be proved because it was never tried?

What do you think about the CA vs FS fight then, that it was PIS? Don't forget not every Kryptonian is Superman, so not everyone with FS powers is FS, experience etc. still counts.

BFR is on, for both sides. If we want to go this route, Superman used the Phantom Zone projector in a fight, he will use it here .

Originally posted by Newjak
So ignoring the Cap vs Superman speed debate. I just wanted to make mention to Prof you are being extremely generous in your interpretations of the DCNu Flash and Superman exchange. Especially saying a holding back Superman was able to easily tag a balls to the walls Flash.

I think myself it is pretty clear that Flash was easily able to outmaneuver Superman as he was practically mocking him the entire time. Superman wised up that he couldn't outright catch Flash. So he managed to lure Flash in a position to catch him off guard. As in Flash easily dodged the fist but didn't factor in Superman being fast enough to flick his finger and catch the Flash by surprise.

To me that exchange means Superman can tag Flash if he outsmarts him but that he most likely on average isn't touching the Flash.

Which isn't a bad feat considering what DCNu Flash has already done. It is actually a really good feat for Superman.

I didn't say easily. Yes Flash was mocking him until superman had enough. He didn't lure him, he had no bait o.O he intercepted him and countered him by moving his fist exactly at flashs face who was unable to dodge it, instead of finishing a punch he flicked his finger, else he might have killed him. That is clear whan you see the scan. Superman knowing exactly where flash is, moving fast enough to hit the flash and instead of punching flicking the finger.

It wasn't outthinking it was reacting too tbh. See it this way, Superman was surprised by Flash speed and had to catch up, speed up, what he did, he became fast enough to tag him, everything indicates this, the movement etc.
AND this was rookie Superman.

As for this thread, which (d)evolved in my abscence :

Speed: A, B, C (Supersonic), D, E, F.
Flash A+
Superman A
Captain Atom A
Blue Marvel ?
Hulk C

Hulks speed is irrelevant to this thread and his leaping is also a burden for this fight of chars able to fly.

@Batman Prime...

So again, what speed fts does Darkseid have that proves he could keep up with Superman in a forum match. If you say grabbing a rookie Superman, then that also means Hulk has the same type of speed since he crushed Gladiator. Don't be a hypocrite here. You understand exactly what I am saying but is clearly dodging it. So in a forum fight, would you give Superman a 10/10 against Darkseid due to speed?

Doesn't mean he was weakened. Nothing was shown of him being at a loss of strength.

Post the scan showing him destroying it then post how it was destroyed (the planet).

Your debating tactic sucks though. In one corner we have a character with far greater fts (Grey Hulk) and in the other corner, we have a ft less character that took on a bunch or rookies (per your admission). Per your admission as well, we base arguments off of fts. So why does the DC ft less character defeat the Marvel full of fts character. Things that make you go hhhhhmmmm.

Then you are being a hypocrite and isn't hiding it. We have Hulk tagging a speedster but you are brushing it off but we have Darkseid tagging a speedster, a hurt speedster per your admission and it's legit. Hypocrite.

So based off fts, Grey Hulk>>>>>>>>> Darkseid. That's strength and durability fts unless again you want to compare scans (using your debating style of course). Hell, Colossus have better lifting fts than Darkseid.

Blue Marvel should be regarded as having Class A speed or at least very close to that point. His ability to cross states as fast as he did, and fly right through Shuma's weakened form gives an idea that he isn't slow. I'll wait for them to begin showing his speed. I just believe that he is well above supersonic. He can also fly. This means that the Hulk could be tossed away, or BM, and CA could take the fight to Superman while the Hulk sits out on the sidelines.

Originally posted by carver9


The Hulk can not jump, and stay stuck in the air like this is some Matrix movie scene. In the air he is helpless when he loses momentum. Nothing stops them from blasting him away, or grabbing his ankle, and tossing him out of there. He has to fight on the ground, none of the other guys do.

I did that because of your entire post...not just that. The whole thing.

Originally posted by Stoic
Blue Marvel should be regarded as having Class A speed or at least very close to that point. His ability to cross states as fast as he did, and fly right through Shuma's weakened form gives an idea that he isn't slow. I'll wait for them to begin showing his speed. I just believe that he is well above supersonic. He can also fly. This means that the Hulk could be tossed away, or BM, and CA could take the fight to Superman while the Hulk sits out on the sidelines.

I though BA is Class A. So we have 3 flying ultrafast chars and one slower who is grounded, compared to the rest. So it is a 2 on 1 in the end.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I though BA is Class A. So we have 3 flying ultrafast chars and one slower who is grounded, compared to the rest. So it is a 2 on 1 in the end.

Exactly. not to mention that Captain Atom could probably do something about the Gamma infused Hulk in the corner.

Originally posted by Stoic
Exactly. not to mention that Captain Atom could probably do something about the Gamma infused Hulk in the corner.

So yeah, from this point of view Team two wins.

Originally posted by carver9
I did that because of your entire post...not just that. The whole thing.

Do you recall how helpless the Hulk truly is while drifting in mid air? Do you remember what Doc Ock with the Adamantium tentacles did to him? They take away his momentum, and it's all over.