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Juubidara, Juubito, Ashurato, Indrasuke, and Kaguya

V.S

Saiyan Saga Goku

the team can def win they could leave him in another dimension or they could use genjutsu and seal him

Not to mention half of them have Yin/Yang techniques, which negate all Ki/Chakra attacks.

Agreed dbz is not as unbeatable as the dbz fanatics may think

First off, Ki =/= chakra. In fact, it is specified in Dragon Ball that ki is the energy of the body, whereas chakra in Naruto is mental and physical energy combined. Ki is much more destructive, and can be used to planet bust, something no one in all of Naruto can come close to.

Secondly, Goku can move ridiculously faster than they can. At that point, he's massively hypsersonic, and LS+ in close combat. None of them can combat that. Even Kaguya could barely move under 2X gravity, and a weaker Goku withstood 10X easily.

Thirdly, the only one who can open portals is Kaguya, and doing so wastes a huge amount of her chakra. Not to mention that she can't open them fast enough to overcome even Naruto's speed, which is ridiculously trumped by Goku.

Fourthly, Genjutsu can be broken by a high enough power, which Goku definitely possesses. Even Sakura as a child was able to break Kabuto's genjutsu. Kabuto was Kakashi level, and Kakashi was able to fend off Itachi, bearing Tsukiyomi. No genjutsu from these characters could even slow Goku down.

Last but not least, Goku wields Kaioken in the Saiyan saga. He can become up to 4 times stronger, and that's bearing the use of Great ape, if he has his tail.

However, while Goku wins handily in this thread, add in duel Mangekyo Kakashi, and he loses all day long, until Ginyu saga.

This thread is lol.

Physical energy = Energy of the body



Kaguya can destroy planet sized dimensions. I'd assume that means she can destroy planets as well.



Guy moved fast enough to warp space. Also, weren't you the guy that was arguing that the Raikage had FTL reflexes? The Raikage who was slower than Minato, who Madara could practically speedblitz?



Is there confirmation it was only 2x? Even were that the case, it would be pretty obvious PIS, considering this is a lady who can pulverize PS with punches.



No it can't.



No he couldn't.

Originally posted by chasedown
Agreed dbz is not as unbeatable as the dbz fanatics may think

Actually most normal people know that DBZ is the stronger of the two. The Naruto series is only just starting to approach Saiyan Saga.

Krillin, Tien, Chiautzu and Yamcha are more their level. And Tien has Mafuba, Chiautzu is Telekinetic, Krillin has Destructo Disc and Yamcha... never mind.

BoSS Piccolo could solo them all. Post Kiao Training Goku bolostomps the opponents

Ashurato and Indrasuke could be any version of Naruto and Sasuke.
They've always had their chakras.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Actually most normal people know that DBZ is the stronger of the two. The Naruto series is only just starting to approach Saiyan Saga.

Krillin, Tien, Chiautzu and Yamcha are more their level. And Tien has Mafuba, Chiautzu is Telekinetic, Krillin has Destructo Disc and Yamcha... never mind.

Sure dbz characters can cause more destruction but they have no means to fight off hax, poison, or mental attacks.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Physical energy = Energy of the body



Kaguya can destroy planet sized dimensions. I'd assume that means she can destroy planets as well.



Guy moved fast enough to warp space. Also, weren't you the guy that was arguing that the Raikage had FTL reflexes? The Raikage who was slower than Minato, who Madara could practically speedblitz?



Is there confirmation it was only 2x? Even were that the case, it would be pretty obvious PIS, considering this is a lady who can pulverize PS with punches.



No it can't.



No he couldn't.

1. Um, yes. Ki = sole physical energy. Chakra = 2 parts physical energy, 8 parts mental energy. That statement comes from the Eight tails. This obviously dilutes the ki quite a bit, considering how weak the Naruto characters are in comparison.

2. Obito "created" an infinite, unending dimension. Doesn't mean he can destroy planets, lol. Dimensions are a bit more fickle than that, considering they don't have definable durabilities in most series.

3. So how fast is that? All he did was bend the black rod that Madara wielded. Even Shizune was able to cut them apart after a while. Shee said Raikage's synapses fire as fast as a flash of light. That means he has, in his Raiton armor mode, a reaction speed of near to LS. His movement speed is only lightning speed though. That's why Minato's light speed teleporting so easily outclassed him. Also, Madara was ridiculously faster than Raikage, not to mention Minato, who isn't even that fast bearing Hiraishin. Madara was able to move fast enough to screw up Minato before he warped, and react to his warping before Minato even could himself.

4. It was calced to be 2X, because of the amount of deceleration that occurred to the rod she shot out, and the fact that Kakashi was able to survive under it. Either way though, it definitely wasn't even 5X, or god forbid the 10X that Goku casually stood on with heavy weighted clothing.

5. Yes it can. Refer to Jiraiya's statement to Naruto saying that enough chakra flow can disrupt the opponents chakra flow to your brain. Also refer to Sasuke overpowering Tsukiyomi with chakra control, even though he only had a base sharingan. That's why his curse mark was able to help him in the first place.

6. Kakashi DID fend off Itachi until he got tagged by Tsukiyomi. He even got hit with other genjutsu before that, iirc.

Originally posted by yungz22
Sure dbz characters can cause more destruction but they have no means to fight off hax, poison, or mental attacks.

When Kami (GOD capable of rebuilding the moon, creating a wish dragon and engineering a universe pocket where time is slowed) tried to Mafuba (a HAX attack which seals people in a container) Piccolo Jr into submission, Piccolo just copied his attack and reversed. So that's Goku and Piccolo that are proficient at quickly learning other people's attacks just by watching. Plus Tien and Chiouztu have Mimicry. There are plenty of Hax moves in Dragon Ball but they do jack shit against the level where people can repel attacks just by yelling at them. As for Poison: Senzu. Mental Attacks have been repelled by Goku who is also a Telepath and can read people's minds.

And all the hax in the Naruto could be fought by Babidi who is the master of Hax (blowing people's heads off from across the universe, teleporting people to other side's of the universe and different dimensions) but does stuff all against the Z-Fighters because they are too powerful, who's to say Naruto hax can do any different.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
When Kami (GOD capable of rebuilding the moon, creating a wish dragon and engineering a universe pocket where time is slowed) tried to Mafuba (a HAX attack which seals people in a container) Piccolo Jr into submission, Piccolo just copied his attack and reversed. So that's Goku and Piccolo that are proficient at quickly learning other people's attacks just by watching. Plus Tien and Chiouztu have Mimicry. There are plenty of Hax moves in Dragon Ball but they do jack shit against the level where people can repel attacks just by yelling at them. As for Poison: Senzu. Mental Attacks have been repelled by Goku who is also a Telepath and can read people's minds.

And all the hax in the Naruto could be fought by Babidi who is the master of Hax (blowing people's heads off from across the universe, teleporting people to other side's of the universe and different dimensions) but does stuff all against the Z-Fighters because they are too powerful, who's to say Naruto hax can do any different.



In short, Goku punches it to death.

Originally posted by yungz22
Sure dbz characters can cause more destruction but they have no means to fight off hax, poison, or mental attacks.

Shenron admitted to being unable to do anything to Nappa and Vegeta, due to them being far beyond the power of Kami. Make of that what you will

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
When Kami (GOD capable of rebuilding the moon, creating a wish dragon and engineering a universe pocket where time is slowed) tried to Mafuba (a HAX attack which seals people in a container) Piccolo Jr into submission, Piccolo just copied his attack and reversed. So that's Goku and Piccolo that are proficient at quickly learning other people's attacks just by watching. Plus Tien and Chiouztu have Mimicry. There are plenty of Hax moves in Dragon Ball but they do jack shit against the level where people can repel attacks just by yelling at them. As for Poison: Senzu. Mental Attacks have been repelled by Goku who is also a Telepath and can read people's minds.

And all the hax in the Naruto could be fought by Babidi who is the master of Hax (blowing people's heads off from across the universe, teleporting people to other side's of the universe and different dimensions) but does stuff all against the Z-Fighters because they are too powerful, who's to say Naruto hax can do any different.

what does that have to do with goku he isnt a namekian nor does he know magic.

so you literally think that mimicry equates to tsukuyomi, kamui,izanami, and kotoamatsukami, totsuka blade just to name a few hax plus the many different sealing techniques


also notice that nobody in dbz that has been sealed has ever broke out on their own they always need outside help

Except Majin Vegeta.

I was pointing out that everyone with magic and hax was useless against the Z Fighters because their sheer amount of power wards it off. Also any move in Naruto (hax or destruction) that can be classified as Super Martial Art based can be mimicked by DBZ characters.

Also maybe Mafuba is just better than Naruto seals. Or maybe its because we are dealing with King Piccolo who is pathetic and only at High End Naruto levels.

That's specifically for the Biju Bomb. Also, positive and negative are not he same as physical and mental.



Obito didn't create the dimension. He also couldn't fvcking destroy it.


Also, check the size of Kaguya's Gudoudama. That thing was a good 10-20x longer in diameter than Perfect Susano'o, which itself is something like a mile+ long iirc, and still expanding. Look at Obito's Gudoudama that were less than a foot long and just see the explosion radius. It had 4 natures, Kaguya's had dozens.

That thing could easily have been planetary scale, and was implied to have been.



You don't get it. It wasn't the force of his speed, it was his speed bending and distorting space, which you need to be at least lightspeed to do.

Of course, he's the fastest character, but regardless all characters in this fight each approach LS.



Those things mode at a high enough velocity to smash through Perfect Susano'o. Hashirama literally created the VotE breaking Madara's. 2x gravity is not doing shit to those things.



It doesn't matter. Tsukuyomi controls time and space, a millisecond could be equivalent to several days.



Sasuke survived that because Itachi allowed him to.



Nope,

Originally posted by NewGuy01

That thing was a good 10-20x longer in diameter than Perfect Susano'o, which itself is something like a mile+ long iirc, and still expanding.

Perfect Susanoo is not a mile high.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Perfect Susanoo is not a mile high.

You're right, I just took another look and it's only a couple hundred meters. Still.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Except Majin Vegeta.

I was pointing out that everyone with magic and hax was useless against the Z Fighters because their sheer amount of power wards it off. Also any move in Naruto (hax or destruction) that can be classified as Super Martial Art based can be mimicked by DBZ characters.

Also maybe Mafuba is just better than Naruto seals. Or maybe its because we are dealing with King Piccolo who is pathetic and only at High End Naruto levels.

Um majin vegeta wasnt sealed. Just a weak form of mind ccontrol that only works on those who are evil. At that point in the series vegeta was no longer pure evil to his own admissio n which may be why the mind control didnt work.

Either way we know that an attack that attacks the mind would at least slow vegeta or goku down so someone else could use kamui, a sealing technique or koto amatsukami which is a trchnique that rewrites codes within the targets brain.


Its an energy equivalence rule so all seals work the same considering goku has no way defending his soul being sucked out of him.

He can by punching his opponents to death.

Naruto and Sasuke can do this.



Bet Kaguya could do this.

Originally posted by yungz22
Just a weak form of mind control


He had the KING of the strongest person in the Demon Realm under his control. Its only weak in your opinion.


Originally posted by yungz22
Either way we know that an attack that attacks the mind would at least slow vegeta or goku down so someone else could use kamui, a sealing technique or koto amatsukami which is a trchnique that rewrites codes within the targets brain.


Maybe Vegeta. But Goku has telepathic abilities and I'm willing to bet, other than tricking him because he's a dumbass, he'd have a pretty iron defence against mental passed attacks.

Originally posted by yungz22
an energy equivalence rule so all seals work the same considering goku has no way defending his soul being sucked out of him.


Except kicking everyone's ass before they know what's going on. And he probably has training for this... he did train with god.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
He had the KING of the strongest person in the Demon Realm under his control. Its only weak in your opinion.




Maybe Vegeta. But Goku has telepathic abilities and I'm willing to bet, other than tricking him because he's a dumbass, he'd have a pretty iron defence against mental passed attacks.



Except kicking everyone's ass before they know what's going on. And he probably has training for this... he did train with god.

babidi's magic works on evil ppl thats why...did you not read or see the show

and he rest of your argument is spec

Your argument is only spec too.

And Babidi's magic works on ALL evil people. That's far from weak mind control. And I've read all of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z.

P.S. If I were a Nazi I'd put your grammar in camps.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Your argument is only spec too.

And Babidi's magic works on ALL evil people. That's far from weak mind control. And I've read all of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z.

P.S. If I were a Nazi I'd put your grammar in camps.

What does babidi's magic have to do with saiyan saga goku

Not much. It was just an indication that Dragon Ball Z characters can break from mind control (mental attack) and so on. It was a minor point I made but I'll let you cling to it.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Not much. It was just an indication that Dragon Ball Z characters can break from mind control (mental attack) and so on. It was a minor point I made but I'll let you cling to it.

vegeta was no longer evil at that point by his own admission so he wasnt fully under conrol in the first place.... either way babidi's ming control attempt still slowed him down..... you dont think that genjutsu would do the same especially when genjutsu are tailored to attack the mind.

Babidi sensed evil in Vegeta...that was enough to get the job done.

Originally posted by carver9
Babidi sensed evil in Vegeta...that was enough to get the job done.


your missing my point

Your point is that mind attacks can effect them. But it is a weak point seeing as though the only ones to affect them thus far are an intergalactic wizard warlord and a non-canon Tuffle-designed synthetic.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Your point is that mind attacks can effect them. But it is a weak point seeing as though the only ones to affect them thus far are an intergalactic wizard warlord and a non-canon Tuffle-designed synthetic.

Who in out of the 5 characters is babidi stronger than and how does him being an intergalactic wizard change the fact that his mind spell pails in comparison to the hax of the sharingan genjutsu techniques that were made to physically attack ones mind rather than to just control it.


And who brought baby into this hes a non canon parasite and has nothing to do with anything

^ WTF does any of the above have to do with this thread. Also considering Kaguya is in this thread, who could give Saiyan Saga Goku a run for his money on her lonesome, I don't see why the team wouldn't win. Afterall IIRC, Goku doesn't gain planet busting power until he uses Kaoken.

I went through this with a friend, the battle with Kaguya we came down to this. Goku couldn't kill her (because of universe jumping and existing in multiple ones at the same time) but what she gonna do to Goku? She could harass him till he dies of old age.

And we all know seals wouldn't work because Goku isn't just gonna sit there and let them, be practical.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
^ WTF does any of the above have to do with this thread. Also considering Kaguya is in this thread, who could give Saiyan Saga Goku a run for his money on her lonesome, I don't see why the team wouldn't win. Afterall IIRC, Goku doesn't gain planet busting power until he uses Kaoken.

They brought babidi up not me

Originally posted by yungz22
Who in out of the 5 characters is babidi stronger than and how does him being an intergalactic wizard change the fact that his mind spell pails in comparison to the hax of the sharingan genjutsu techniques

Babidi: Weak strength, Incredible Magic (that coming from a Kaoshin). He might not be, but he could be.

And how do you know Babidi's magic pales in comparison? What's that based on?

Originally posted by yungz22
They brought babidi up not me

Grow some testicles. I brought it up as a minor point but you went for it because it was SO irrelevant it was the only thing you could defend yourself with.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Babidi: Weak strength, Incredible Magic (that coming from a Kaoshin). He might not be, but he could be.

And how do you know Babidi's magic pales in comparison? What's that based on?


Based on the fact that his mind control is limited to evil people. And if your no longer pure evil the hold is even more loose

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
And we all know seals wouldn't work because Goku isn't just gonna sit there and let them, be practical.

Nope. He'll just punch them all to death.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
I went through this with a friend, the battle with Kaguya we came down to this. Goku couldn't kill her (because of universe jumping and existing in multiple ones at the same time) but what she gonna do to Goku? She could harass him till he dies of old age.

And we all know seals wouldn't work because Goku isn't just gonna sit there and let them, be practical.
Considering this is only Saiyan Saga Goku, Kaguya could actually hurt him via either the bone tech or through the hair senbon. Then there's the Giant truth seeking ball she can use that would possibly take Goku out in itself. With four other opponents of like power, the Juubi jinchuriki having country busting power at least, I don't see Goku winning this. Granted the team will have to work for it.

If all else fails there's always the use of Infinite Tsukuyomi.

Originally posted by yungz22
They brought babidi up not me
Yeah I was referring to the ones bring the Babidi argument up.

Spopovich and Yamu were relatively neutral yet they had they fell under the spell. The spell insinuates that (and I know this irrelevant to the thread but you simply must know how this works) anyone with evil in their hearts, at ALL, are susceptible. Because the only ones immune are the Pure of Heart (so anyone who can ride the Nimbus). Vegeta broke it by being insanely powerful. Think of it like the Devilmite Beam, anyone who can survive that is immune.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Spopovich and Yamu were relatively neutral yet they had they fell under the spell. The spell insinuates that (and I know this irrelevant to the thread but you simply must know how this works) anyone with evil in their hearts, at ALL, are susceptible. Because the only ones immune are the Pure of Heart (so anyone who can ride the Nimbus). Vegeta broke it by being insanely powerful. Think of it like the Devilmite Beam, anyone who can survive that is immune.


Spopovich was consumed by his need for revenge against hercule that doesnt sound nuetral to me.

The fact of the matter is vegeta was stopped in his tracks by such a limited type of mind control suggests that genjutsu could do the same if not worse especially since they are tailored to attack and or damage the brain rather than to just control evil people.

Edit

Originally posted by yungz22
Spopovich was consumed by his need for revenge against hercule that doesnt sound nuetral to me.

The fact of the matter is vegeta was stopped in his tracks by such a limited type of mind control suggests that genjutsu could do the same if not worse especially since they are tailored to attack and or damage the brain rather than to just control evil people.

Limited mind controlled? Babidi telepathic abilities (without even trying) was planetary.

Originally posted by carver9
Limited mind controlled? Babidi telepathic abilities (without even trying) was planetary.



did he control the whole planet population? no

is only being able to control people who are evil not a limit? yes it is

Originally posted by yungz22
did he control the whole planet population? no

is only being able to control people who are evil not a limit? yes it is

He didn't have to control the entire planet to have planetary TP. What he showed proved he did and how effortlessly he did it and how he was able to hand pick people on an entire planet and blow there heads off was proof. He was planetary. Don't know why you are questioning this.

Originally posted by carver9
He didn't have to control the entire planet to have planetary TP. What he showed proved he did and how effortlessly he did it and how he was able to hand pick people on an entire planet and blow there heads off was proof. He was planetary. Don't know why you are questioning this.

he killed people he was able to control from what i remember?

why does that have to do with mind control and how is this different than genjutsu.

and also what does this have to do with goku against the 5 naruto characters?

Originally posted by carver9
He didn't have to control the entire planet to have planetary TP. What he showed proved he did and how effortlessly he did it and how he was able to hand pick people on an entire planet and blow there heads off was proof. He was planetary. Don't know why you are questioning this.

Uhh...that's nice and all but he can't affect everyone at once but whatever. Still don't know how anything of this Babidi argument relates to this thread.

So yeah I still say the team can take this one.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Uhh...that's nice and all but he can't affect everyone at once but whatever. Still don't know how anything of this Babidi argument relates to this thread.

So yeah I still say the team can take this one.


i think they are trying to say that goku wouldnt be affected by genjutsu which makes zero sense whatsoever

I was relating one instance of mind control resistance. It had little to do with the argument. However you guys are humping the fact it was brought up because you got nothing.

Plural?

Anyway, Kaguya also has planetary-level TP, and has demonstrated such.

Nappa and Vegeta couldn't be hax'd by Shenron due to them being far more powerful than Shenron. Same Shenron who could recreate a planet and resurrect the population of a planet

Make of that what you will

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Nappa and Vegeta couldn't be hax'd by Shenron due to them being far more powerful than Shenron. Same Shenron who could recreate a planet and resurrect the population of a planet

Make of that what you will

What are you trying to say

Earths shenron has rules and limits nor does he take life.

Point is higher power levels make one immune to the effects of haxes from a beings of a lower tier?

Alot of things in fiction have limits

At least how I interpret this shit anyhow

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Point is higher power levels make one immune to the effects of haxes from a beings of a lower tier?

Alot of things in fiction have limits

At least how I interpret this shit anyhow

So why bring the dragon up there are limits and rules to what he can and cant do he is irrelavant.

CHautzu couldn't effect Nappa with TK because be was too strong. Make of that what you will.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
CHautzu couldn't effect Nappa with TK because be was too strong. Make of that what you will.



Lol what does that have to do with anything... The trolling is real lol

Make of it what you will.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Make of it what you will.

How does chiaotzu' tk equal hax?

Originally posted by chasedown
So why bring the dragon up there are limits and rules to what he can and cant do he is irrelavant.

Every fictional character has limits to what they can and can't do you god damn fool

And TK isn't hax. Chaiotzu was stronger than BoSS Piccolo by this point

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Every fictional character has limits to what they can and can't do you god damn fool

And TK isn't hax. Chaiotzu was stronger than BoSS Piccolo by this point

The dragon is limited by rules set by his creator, nor does take life..... what does this have to do with goku vs the 5


Like why bring him up he is irrelavant just like chiaotzu's tk

No, he's limited to the ability of his creator. What does not being alive have to do with anything?

Because BoSS Piccolo>the Nardofags in terms of DC

Originally posted by StealthRanger
No, he's limited to the ability of his creator. What does not being alive have to do with anything?

Because BoSS Piccolo>the Nardofags in terms of DC


i just stated that he was limited to his creator and that he doesnt take life lol why repeat it. and you guys are the one who brought up the dragon in the first place.


chiaotzu is probably the weakest z fighter in the saiyan saga you bringing him up i irrelavant and doesnt prove any point.

theses five would destroy chiaotzu


and again you guys are bringing up irrelavant evidence that proves nothing

Originally posted by yungz22
i just stated that he was limited to his creator and that he doesnt take life lol why repeat it. and you guys are the one who brought up the dragon in the first place.

Again, alot of characters have limits and if Shenron can't effect the Saiyans, then it suggest immunity to hax of a lower being, to do otherwise is just circular logic

Honestly, what your point supposed to be? All I read was "I don't like it so it didn't happen"



He's still well and truly above BoSS Piccolo, who busted the moon even during the late Saiyan Saga

Also I wasn't the one who brought him up



https://i.imgur.com/uhg1KTW.png



Well not my fault you're an idiot who sticks to no limit fallacies and brings up immortality as if it's some kind of "haha my character can't be harmed I win you lose" card, when it isn't and is a no limit fallacy

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Again, alot of characters have limits and if Shenron can't effect the Saiyans, then it suggest immunity to hax of a lower being, to do otherwise is just circular logic

Honestly, what your point supposed to be? All I read was "I don't like it so it didn't happen"



He's still well and truly above BoSS Piccolo, who busted the moon even during the late Saiyan Saga

Also I wasn't the one who brought him up



https://i.imgur.com/uhg1KTW.png



Well not my fault you're an idiot who sticks to no limit fallacies and brings up immortality as if it's some kind of "haha my character can't be harmed I win you lose" card, when it isn't and is a no limit fallacy

Lol, and I like your new avatar.

Why thank you, was getting sick of the site gravatars, and figured out how to get a new one, <3 imgur

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Lol, and I like your new avatar.

I'm with this guy.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/eb/ed/21/ebed21b1f679d3f6ce0fd778786e389f.jpg

Forgive me.

Somehow, that reminds me of this...



mgxyNYXwUA8

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Again, alot of characters have limits and if Shenron can't effect the Saiyans, then it suggest immunity to hax of a lower being, to do otherwise is just circular logic

Honestly, what your point supposed to be? All I read was "I don't like it so it didn't happen"



He's still well and truly above BoSS Piccolo, who busted the moon even during the late Saiyan Saga

Also I wasn't the one who brought him up



https://i.imgur.com/uhg1KTW.png



Well not my fault you're an idiot who sticks to no limit fallacies and brings up immortality as if it's some kind of "haha my character can't be harmed I win you lose" card, when it isn't and is a no limit fallacy

Kaguya by herself is a planetary threat so how and why a piccolo moon bustin feat along with chiaotzu and the dragon matter idk.


The dragon is only as strong as kami or its creator. The creator of the dragon creates rules and limits on the types of wishes he can and cant grant. Taking life is one of those things the dragon doesnt do

Originally posted by yungz22
Kaguya by herself is a planetary threat so how and why a piccolo moon bustin feat along with chiaotzu and the dragon matter idk.


The dragon is only as strong as kami or its creator. The creator of the dragon creates rules and limits on the types of wishes he can and cant grant. Taking life is one of those things the dragon doesnt do

LOL, listen to what you're saying man.

You just admitted that Kaguya was only a planetary THREAT. That doesn't translate to a planet BUSTER. You DO remember that even King Piccolo was a threat to the planet, right? Hell, Global warming is a planetary threat. That's not a feat at all, lol.

No, Shenron will and CAN take people's lives. It has been inferred in the past. In fact, the reason they couldn't do so to the Saiyan's was because they were stronger than Kami, meaning that since Kami couldn't kill them, Shenron couldn't.

There are no rules to the Dragon Balls, only limitations, and very few at that, especially later on in the Buu saga when the Namekian Dragon Balls can bring back infinite people at a time, entire planets and their biology, kill anyone that Elder Moori can(so not much, but still), and basically have only one limit, which is that you can't bring anyone back if they've been dead for a year.

Originally posted by yungz22
he killed people he was able to control from what i remember?

why does that have to do with mind control and how is this different than genjutsu.

and also what does this have to do with goku against the 5 naruto characters?

Um... Yes? Babidi killed several people by popping their heads after using TK to hear and decipher thoughts from billions of people from all over the planet EFFORTLESSLY. You DO realize that such a feat proves CASUAL planetary TK from a weak character like Babidi, AND proves CASUAL planetary level TK resistance from Goten, Trunks and Piccolo, right?

You're right, this IS no different from Genjutsu. Except that Babidi can control people to a greater degree than even Shisui, by amplifying the evil in their hearts. Not to mention that since the Z-fighters have TK resistance higher than anything ever fathomed by Itachi or even Shisui, the two highest of the high tier genjutsu users in the series, even Goten or Trunks in base form could tank the strongest Genjutsu in Naruto without wavering a bit. Very likely including Infinite Tsukiyomi.

Originally posted by yungz22
Kaguya by herself is a planetary threat

That stopped being a big deal by the start of the Saiyan Saga, plus planetary threat doesn't mean she's a planet buster



Goku>>>Nappa>>>Z fighters>>>Raditz>>>BoSS Piccolo



Dragon can't take lives eh? Guess I missed the entire point of the Piccolo Daimao Saga, you know, to try and wish Piccolo out of existence

yall are convoluding my point

Originally posted by yungz22
yall...

Y'all*


Originally posted by yungz22
...are convoluding my point

Convoluting*

Nobody has actually said how Goku would win. Granted he could probably blow up everyone but he'd need Kaio Ken to do that.

Also pretty sure the Naruto verse is above Nappa Now just putting it out there.

What are Nappa's feats?

Being Hilarious and quoting everything he says.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Nobody has actually said how Goku would win. Granted he could probably blow up everyone but he'd need Kaio Ken to do that.

Also pretty sure the Naruto verse is above Nappa Now just putting it out there.

https://i.imgur.com/uhg1KTW.png

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Nobody has actually said how Goku would win. Granted he could probably blow up everyone but he'd need Kaio Ken to do that.

Also pretty sure the Naruto verse is above Nappa Now just putting it out there.


They arent going to theyve resorted to trolling


As a result Their concession has been accepted

>trolling accusations
>says that Nardo chars can withstand planetbusting even though they lack the feats for it
>that dipshit chasedown even said that Edos can withstand galaxy busting and says that only sealing works (reminds me of the Heartless can only be killed by Keyblades and Ganon can only be killed by evil's bane NLF shit)
>arguments against DBZ consist of "I don't like it so it didn't happen"

Sure, keep deluding youself, son

Originally posted by StealthRanger
>trolling accusations
>says that Nardo chars can withstand planetbusting even though they lack the feats for it
>that dipshit chasedown even said that Edos can withstand galaxy busting and says that only sealing works (reminds me of the Heartless can only be killed by Keyblades and Ganon can only be killed by evil's bane NLF shit)
>arguments against DBZ consist of "I don't like it so it didn't happen"

Sure, keep deluding youself, son

Keyblades and ganondorf have nothing to do with anything.


Well the edo did survive genkai hakuri which is a jutsu that breaks you down past the atomic level it would make sense that a ki blast wouldnt kill them either.

Originally posted by yungz22
Keyblades and ganondorf have nothing to do with anything.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q40/KIsenberger/Food%20and%20Misc/Point_over_your_head.jpg

Since the dumbcunt cannot read or understand the similarity in no limit fallacies



A planet buster, much less a galaxy buster would do more than just "atomise" an Edo, I'll tell you that much

You're worse than that troll who thought Itachi could survive the Death Star superlaser

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Ganon can only be killed by Evil's Bane

Even we know better than to present this as an argument. Consider that the difference between us.

Certainly

Originally posted by StealthRanger
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q40/KIsenberger/Food%20and%20Misc/Point_over_your_head.jpg

Since the dumbcunt cannot read or understand the similarity in no limit fallacies



A planet buster, much less a galaxy buster would do more than just "atomise" an Edo, I'll tell you that much

You're worse than that troll who thought Itachi could survive the Death Star superlaser

Lol a galaxy buster can do more than atomise?

Your calling me stupid and You dont even know about physics an atom is the smallest unit of matter there isnt anything smaller than that if you are disintegrated past the atom level then you no longer exist.

Genkai hakuri is a jutsu that distegrates things past the atomic level and the edo tensei survived that and came right back into fighting shape because their souls are bound to this earth.

Curious, what if one destroyed the Earth? (Serious question; unrelated to the thread.)

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Curious, what if one destroyed the Earth? (Serious question; unrelated to the thread.)
It would result in a draw most likely. None of the characters here can do anything in space.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
It would result in a draw most likely. None of the characters here can do anything in space.

My question is unrelated to the "fight". I'm just asking in reference to the "bound to the Earth" clause.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
My question is unrelated to the "fight". I'm just asking in reference to the "bound to the Earth" clause.


I think its more bound to the living plane than just planet earth

Originally posted by yungz22
I think its more bound to the living plane than just planet earth

So, then what?

Originally posted by Sacred 117
So, then what?


Living plane

Originally posted by yungz22
Living plane

I know, so where would that send them?

Originally posted by yungz22
Lol a galaxy buster can do more than atomise?

It only takes like, a few megatons to atomise a person

If you believe that a galaxy buster wouldn't atomise someone who's best feats are country busting, you need your head examined



Then there's annihilation, which is destruction of every part of you, atoms included



No limit fallacy on disintegrates everything because disintegration is not hax

Originally posted by Sacred 117
I know, so where would that send them?

If your bound to the living plane thats means your soul will stay in the realm of the living.

If you blow up the earth theyd reanimate in space. Kind of like how kid buu regened while in space even tho kid buu isnt an immortal im just using his regen as an example

Originally posted by StealthRanger
It only takes like, a few megatons to atomise a person

If you believe that a galaxy buster wouldn't atomise someone who's best feats are country busting, you need your head examined



Then there's annihilation, which is destruction of every part of you, atoms included



No limit fallacy on disintegrates everything because disintegration is not hax

I never said a galaxy buster wouldnt atomize someone i clearly stated that the edo came back from it on panel.

What does disintergration have to with a no limits fallacy. An atom is the limit its the smallest unit of matter

Originally posted by yungz22
If your bound to the living plane thats means your soul will stay in the realm of the living.

If you blow up the earth theyd reanimate in space. Kind of like how kid buu regened while in space even tho kid buu isnt an immortal im just using his regen as an example

Thanks for the clarification, and people with regen (more oft than not) are technically classified as immortals. Just ask Wolverine.


Originally posted by yungz22
I never said a galaxy buster wouldnt atomize someone i clearly stated that the edo came back from it on panel.

What does disintergration have to with a no limits fallacy. An atom is the limit its the smallest unit of matter

I know it pisses in the face of reality (which we should all reasonably be used to by now), but there are things in fiction that can divide atoms.

Not sure that'll help, but I thought I should mention it anyways.

Yungz your entire argument is: What does this have to with this?

You are either a troll or you lack the capability to make connections.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Yungz your entire argument is: What does this have to with this?

You are either a troll or you lack the capability to make connections.






You were saying disintergration was a no limits fallacy when it isnt it clearly has a limit lol did you not know that an atom was the smallest unit of matter. Its simple logic im not trolling.

Originally posted by yungz22
You were saying disintergration was a no limits fallacy when it isnt it clearly has a limit lol did you not know that an atom was the smallest unit of matter. Its simple logic im not trolling.

Actually I wasn't. That was someone else. You aren't even paying half attention to this. And you explicitly said you make or find these threads to bait Dragon Ball Z Fans. You admitted to being a troll.

Originally posted by yungz22
I wanted to hear the db fanatics plead their case for ssj god goku lol

Originally posted by yungz22
What does that have to do with anything

Originally posted by yungz22
Their concession has been accepted

Baiting.

Trolling.

Quaning.

You are a terrible human being and you should feel bad, because your debating skills SUCK SHEEET.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Actually I wasn't. That was someone else. You aren't even paying half attention to this. And you explicitly said you make or find these threads to bait Dragon Ball jnZ Fans. You admitted to being a troll.

Oh im sorry i jumped the gun thinking you were stealth ranger. How does trying to understand why someone would say disintergration was a no limits fallacy make me a troll.

How is wanting to hear a dbz fanboy explain his ideas make me a troll.


Im looking for logical arguements. Which is something alot of dbz fans throw away.

I didnt even make this thread or the vs hst one only thread i made was goku vs superman. In a no holds barrd all feats accepted match. It doesnt make me a troll if ppl bring up bs arguements to the table and i challenge them with logic

Even wakwaka said it no one here even stated how goku would win.


Instead they brought up irrelavant things

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Baiting.

Trolling.

Quaning.

You are a terrible human being and you should feel bad, because your debating skills SUCK SHEEET.

haermm

Seems like you guys are the ones trolling because youve yet to say how goku wins logically

Goku punches, knees, kicks, blasts, palms, elbows, etc. The only problem I see is the one that exists in other universes simultaneously.

Pretty sure Infinite Tsukuyomi takes care of that. Juubidara also has a huge damage soak so not sure how far melee is going to work.

Lol so goku is immune to genjutsu, and sharingan techniques and cant be teleported to another dimension?

Originally posted by yungz22
I never said a galaxy buster wouldnt atomize someone i clearly stated that the edo came back from it on panel.



Might wanna try reading your own ****ing statements before you try to defend them, hm?



Disintegration requires energy to achieve, it is not some form of hax that ignores durability. And I heard you the first time on the second sentence, mate

Apparently despite the blatantly obvious advantages Goku has in every physical respect (strength, speed, durability, reactions and agility) as well as massive destructive capacity beyond the HST, much less Nardo "you haven't explained how Goku wins"

Meanwhile HST's dipshits for supporters claim "only sealing works" claiming they can tank galaxy busters and not understanding what a no limit fallacy is

And they have the ****ing gall to accuse us of "trolling", I'd expect this shit from someone like quanchi or Raigen but, my god



People here think that Thor can't stomp the Narutoverse, Asura can't solo the Bleachverse or that Magneto can't solo the HST

You'd be surprised and appalled at what people are willing to argue to get their way here

Anyhow I think I'm going to pull out for now, with shit like this I can see why this site's anime/manga section has such a bad reputation

That and because I hate debating Naruto more than I hate debating DBZ, and that's because I actually like DBZ

SR, if it pleases the court, I'll bring this before a jury of rightful peera (make a thread about this shit)?

i like this thread lol

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Might wanna try reading your own ****ing statements before you try to defend them, hm?



Disintegration requires energy to achieve, it is not some form of hax that ignores durability. And I heard you the first time on the second sentence, mate

Apparently despite the blatantly obvious advantages Goku has in every physical respect (strength, speed, durability, reactions and agility) as well as massive destructive capacity beyond the HST, much less Nardo "you haven't explained how Goku wins"

Meanwhile HST's dipshits for supporters claim "only sealing works" claiming they can tank galaxy busters and not understanding what a no limit fallacy is

And they have the ****ing gall to accuse us of "trolling", I'd expect this shit from someone like quanchi or Raigen but, my god



People here think that Thor can't stomp the Narutoverse, Asura can't solo the Bleachverse or that Magneto can't solo the HST

You'd be surprised and appalled at what people are willing to argue to get their way here

where in that question does it say a galaxy buster cant atomise. read my whole post apparently the words MORE THAN doesnt mean anything to you

in the post i was replying to you o whoever it was was implying that there is a unit of matter smaller than an atom


edo can take a galaxy buster becuase their souls are bound to the living plane its not a no limits fallacy its a jutsu that you guys dont like. ki isnt going to destroy them

Lol so goku is immune to genjutsu, and sharingan techniques and cant be teleported to another dimension?

*wondering if should say "yes" just to f**k with people who actually give a shit about this thread* mmm

Im surprised no ones brought up the spirit bomb that could def kill madara and kaguya, juubito because it destroys evil souls

Only thing is theres a charge time......


This is a logical option for goku

Okay, look Goku ****ing wins this shit. Because the only way they can beat Goku is to seal him (maybe) but like they'd get the ****ing chance.

Pfft, Naruto and Sasuke trap him in the core of a moon.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Okay, look Goku ****ing wins this shit. Because the only way they can beat Goku is to seal him (maybe) but like they'd get the ****ing chance.

So you dont think that the ability to teleport yourselves and others wouldnt matter against saiyan saga goku.

And is goku immune to genjutsu.

Also hes not gonna be able to beat them through physical (punching kicking) means alone. Hes fighting a team.

Saiyan saga pbs require a charge time by the way

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Pfft, Naruto and Sasuke trap him in the core of a moon.

You mean that thing Roshi (let alone Goku) could blow up before Z? Cool.

I was joking, but that's a pretty different scenario. I mean, I think that would be harder to do while trapped in the core under the pressure of millions of tons.

You mean like Naruto supposedly did?

The Chibaku Tensei Naruto was trapped in isn't even a hundredthof the mass of the moon they created, perhaps as small as a thousandth.

Also, Naruto wasn't at the core, but the mid-layers. And he couldn't escape until he reached the 8th tail.

Good. I just wanted to hear someone admit that.

I know some people who need to realize that it wasn't a phuckin' planet, nor was it "denser than" one.

Thanks.

Originally posted by yungz22
Seems like you guys are the ones trolling because youve yet to say how goku wins logically

As to sate your thirst for knowledge presented to you countless times already, allow me to answer this dismally frivolous excuse for a "question", you've asked.

Goku wins this "logically", by being literally indestructible to the five mentioned, being able to destroy almost infinitely more than the five mentioned, being literally INFINITELY faster than the five mentioned, and thus being able to tank, dodge, counter, or otherwise shrug off all attacks/measures/strategies surmounted by the five mentioned.

He basically wins this the same way a human wins a fight against five ants.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
As to sate your thirst for knowledge presented to you countless times already, allow me to answer this dismally frivolous excuse for a "question", you've asked.

Goku wins this "logically", by being literally indestructible to the five mentioned, being able to destroy almost infinitely more than the five mentioned, being literally INFINITELY faster than the five mentioned, and thus being able to tank, dodge, counter, or otherwise shrug off all attacks/measures/strategies surmounted by the five mentioned.

He basically wins this the same way a human wins a fight against five ants.



saiyan saga goku doesnt need a charge time to blow up the earth, and is immune to genjutsu and dimensional travel?

Sure. Why the f**k not? awecraz

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Sure. Why the f**k not? awecraz

fanboyism at its best

Originally posted by chasedown
fanboyism at its best

Check the expression (instead of being a f**king hypocrite). You'll realize you weren't supposed to take it seriously.

Originally posted by chasedown
fanboyism at its best

😳😂😂😭

Originally posted by chasedown
saiyan saga goku doesnt need a charge time to blow up the earth, and is immune to genjutsu and dimensional travel?

1. Nope. All he needs to do is use a kamehameha, and the planets gone. Also, this is irrelevant. My point was that his destructive capacity is so great, that his attacks do more damage. Meaning a ki blast from him that can blow up continents would be more than enough to put down anyone but Kaguya, and still would phuck her up. Two would still do the job though.

2. Goten, Piccolo, and Trunks are all three immune to planet level+ TK, which proves that all the Z-fighters are if they are powerful enough. This means Goku would shrug off any and all genjutsu used at this point, including Infinite Tsukiyomi. Not to mention that he could simply blow up the moon, considering IT takes time to activate, and he can turn the moon to dust with a casual ki blast.

3. Dimensional travel? You mean the dimensions that they can yell through in the Buu saga? No? Oh! you mean the dimensions that can be traveled through by reverse summoning, which is simply transferring your body through a seal. You didn't think Kaguya was making other dimensions, did you? Why did you think Sasuke and Naruto were able to run from their battleground to the final valley? lol.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. Nope. All he needs to do is use a kamehameha, and the planets gone. Also, this is irrelevant. My point was that his destructive capacity is so great, that his attacks do more damage. Meaning a ki blast from him that can blow up continents would be more than enough to put down anyone but Kaguya, and still would phuck her up. Two would still do the job though.

2. Goten, Piccolo, and Trunks are all three immune to planet level+ TK, which proves that all the Z-fighters are if they are powerful enough. This means Goku would shrug off any and all genjutsu used at this point, including Infinite Tsukiyomi. Not to mention that he could simply blow up the moon, considering IT takes time to activate, and he can turn the moon to dust with a casual ki blast.

3. Dimensional travel? You mean the dimensions that they can yell through in the Buu saga? No? Oh! you mean the dimensions that can be traveled through by reverse summoning, which is simply transferring your body through a seal. You didn't think Kaguya was making other dimensions, did you? Why did you think Sasuke and Naruto were able to run from their battleground to the final valley? lol.

1.If goku blows up the planet he dies he cant survive in space.also this is saiyan saga goku pb's have a charge time and that would leave him vulnerable to hax as well as him being sent to another dimension.

2. Who in dbz tanked is immune to Tk panels? Also show me a dbz character overpowering a technique like the tsukuyomi which is more advanced than anything babidi did.

3. This is saiyan saga goku he isnt teleporting nor is he ripping through dimensions. Also kaguya does create dimensions were you not reading the chapters. Also hagaromo is the one who teleported naruto and sasuke back to their normal dimension from what i remember.

Proof that Goku can blow up continents with Ki Blasts?

Proof that Saiyan Saga* Goku can blow up continents with normal/casual* blasts.

Piccolo at the beginning of the Saiyan Saga could blow up the moon Death Star style by extending his palm outwards, you seriously doubt Goku, much less him in the late Saiyan Saga, can bust up continents?

My knowledge is pretty limited, which is why I asked, but I just watched a few of the S.S fights and they don't seem too overwhelming tbh. Even in Goku vs Vegeta, most of even their stronger attacks only destroyed some boulders really. One of current!Sasuke's punches can devastate a mountain range.

Their high scale/uber blasts seem to outclass the Naruto verse's, but everything else from what I've seen is strikingly inferior.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
My knowledge is pretty limited, which is why I asked, but I just watched a few of the S.S fights and they don't seem too overwhelming tbh. Even in Goku vs Vegeta, most of even their stronger attacks only destroyed some boulders really. One of current!Sasuke's punches can devastate a mountain range.

Their high scale/uber blasts seem to outclass the Naruto verse's, but everything else from what I've seen is strikingly inferior.


Yup and all the dbz high scale attacks have charge times which leave them wide open if their fihhting against more than one enemy especially if the people their fighting can teleport

I'm just skimming some chapters now, and it really seems like their physical feats sans speed are not very impressive (Have yet to see any physical blows that are even close to Susano'o mountain busting). They do have Ki blasts that are roughly Biju Dama scale though, and apparently Vegeta can planet bust, but I'm re-affirmed in the Nverse's potential to win this.

Some time in what I believe is the Namek saga Vegeta deflects a large-Bijudama scale Ki Blast with his hand and that's supposedly very impressive. Early BM Naruto has deflected a half dozen Biju Balls in the same manner with even greater ease.

But yeah, I'm just skimming ATM, my DBZ knowledge is severely lacking. Do inform me if I'm missing stuff.

IIRC (and I'm almost certain I am), ki is an extension of one's physical self, and is dependent on the condition of the user.

Make what you will of that, I guess.

from what I remember, I'ts impossible for someone in db to put out more energy than they themselves ca handle. If piccolo can use a blast to take out the moon, he can withstand a blast that can take out the moon...Then again I haven't watched dbz in ages and heaven knows I don't read. So take that with a grain of salt.

I don't think Vegeta could take a planet buster at this point. The only reason he survived was because he 'slid' off the blast before it detonated.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
My knowledge is pretty limited, which is why I asked, but I just watched a few of the S.S fights and they don't seem too overwhelming tbh. Even in Goku vs Vegeta, most of even their stronger attacks only destroyed some boulders really. One of current!Sasuke's punches can devastate a mountain range.

Their high scale/uber blasts seem to outclass the Naruto verse's, but everything else from what I've seen is strikingly inferior.

Welcome to fiction where battle between planet busters only causes small craters in the ground

Or where people can planets bust to begin with.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Welcome to fiction where battle between planet busters only causes small craters in the ground

Yep, I've just watched fights where Goku is hundreds of times stronger than he was in Saiyan Saga and their attacks are absolutely negligible compared to a fight in current!Naruto.

Their ultimate techniques are pretty solid though. Regardless Goku won't win this fight with the regular combat showings he has in SS.

Lol.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yep, I've just watched fights where Goku is hundreds of times stronger than he was in Saiyan Saga and their attacks are absolutely negligible compared to a fight in current!Naruto.

Their ultimate techniques are pretty solid though. Regardless Goku won't win this fight with the regular combat showings he has in SS.

Uh, you realise by this logic Naruto (or actually a vast majority of fictional universes) wouldn't be all that impressive right, because what supposedly looks to be their best (with all the colleteral damage and such shit) only happened a few times throughout the series, yeah?

There's a good reason why on a vast majority of vs debating boards we take the more impressive showings of a character and assume it to be an accurate portrayal of their performance, unless there was some sort of circumstance that would make it useless in a neutral battleground (like say, a battleground that'd grant far more power than a character would normally have). Think, instances of running thousands of kilometers in seconds and nuking countires with casual attacks vs fights with beings on a similar tier where they don't pull off Wesker shit and collateral is about comparable to, say, a sub kiloton bomb when they're clearly not pulling their punches

If you want to go down this road, it'll just end up as a nitpicking low end shit fest

Anyways, Gohan as a 4 year old when he got angry broke Raditz's pod physically, same pods which can tank Nappa's casual shit, meaning we're talking guys who can bust countries though physical strength here

Again, Piccolo with a casual ki blast destroyed the moon Death Star style, which was calced in the zettaton range. He's basically worthless compared to Nappa in his stronger LSS (not to be confused with Legendary Super Saiyan) form, much less Post Kaio training Goku, who stomped Nappa casually

That's because they're getting stronger, and we've been seeing this (growing) scale of combat for the past few years. It's not inconsistent.

While they can apparently destroy planets with their ultimate attacks, at least as of the Saiyan Saga, their combat showings show nothing of this scale. The explosions caused by their casual Ki blasts are negligible by comparison, and Vegeta could be harmed by punches that were only strong enough to crush boulders.

I haven't seem the Moon feat with Piccolo, though, so IDK, but wouldn't that feat be the odd one odd one out rather than their usual combat feats?

No.