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I know there's too many to count, but does anyone have a favorite book from the EU, one that sticks out apart from the rest which you really enjoyed?

Annihilation
The Entire Bane Trilogy
Darth Plageuis
Decieved

Are all come to mind

Revenge of the Sith.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
The Entire Bane Trilogy

Only the first Bane book is good, imo.

Yoda: Dark Rendezvous by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


Then Revenge of the Sith, Shatterpoint, Cloak of Deception, and The Unifying Force in no particular order.

Darth Bane Trilogy, Darth Plagueis, and Book of the Sith.

First Bane novel and FOTJ series are my favorite Star Wars novels.
Worst are probably Plagueis and Rendezous. Too slow and boring.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
First Bane novel and FOTJ series are my favorite Star Wars novels.
Worst are probably Plagueis and Rendezous. Too slow and boring.

Not sure if serious...

Seriously, though, never understood the love of the Bane books. They are horribly written, the first reads like a video game, the second and third have virtually no plot at all, and Bane is about as deep as a puddle after a spring shower.

Originally posted by ares834
Bane is about as deep as a puddle after a spring shower.

A spring shower that he is too slow to deflect

I did enjoy the first Bane book. I agree the others don't have much of a plot, though.

Good choices all around though.

Originally posted by ares834
Not sure if serious...
Anyone who says they made it through the Plagueis novel without stabbing themselves is lying out of their ass.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


Then Revenge of the Sith, Shatterpoint, Cloak of Deception, and The Unifying Force in no particular order.

This sums up mine perfectly.

So glad no one said Revan Novel, easily the worst. Not just because of what it did to Meetra, just in general.

Shatterpoint
Crosscurrent


Id also like to point out(for those that may not know) that The Unifying Force is the final book in a series spanning around 20 books. You will miss a lot if you skip all of the previous books, some is best missed and some is a good read.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Shatterpoint
Crosscurrent


Id also like to point out(for those that may not know) that The Unifying Force is the final book in a series spanning around 20 books. You will miss a lot if you skip all of the previous books, some is best missed and some is a good read.

Awesome, I actually haven't read Crosscurrent. Kemp though, it should be great!

Thanks!

Originally posted by Trocity
I know there's too many to count, but does anyone have a favorite book from the EU, one that sticks out apart from the rest which you really enjoyed?

The book I most enjoyed is FOTJ: Conviction, with Yoda: Dark Rendezvous coming in a close second.

I also liked FOTJ: Apocalypse. Yes, I know it had a lot of problems but seeing the supreme masters of the Jedi and the Sith team up to defeat an Eldritch Abomination had me on the edge of my seat.

(Of course I mean the supreme masters alive at that point).

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Anyone who says they made it through the Plagueis novel without stabbing themselves is lying out of their ass.

Plagueis is overrated but it's 10x better than the Bane Trilogy.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Plagueis is overrated but it's 10x better than the Bane Trilogy.
The first Bane novel wasn't well written, I agree, but it gave me the action and adventure story that I want from a Star Wars novel. It was honestly almost like the Darkside version of the classic Luke Skywalker OT quest. Plagueis was just boring for me. I couldn't relate to any of the characters, there was an insane lack of action, and way to much politics. And Rendezvous centered around several padawans I couldn't care less about until the end.

You... didn't like Scout?

But she's so cool. She grabbed a trainingsaber with her bare hands.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The first Bane novel wasn't well written, I agree, but it gave me the action and adventure story that I want from a Star Wars novel. It was honestly almost like the Darkside version of the classic Luke Skywalker OT quest. Plagueis was just boring for me. I couldn't relate to any of the characters, there was an insane lack of action, and way to much politics.

Visual/cinematic Star Wars works best for straight-up action since no degree of literary genius can ever truly match what can be visually rendered. (Yeah, yeah, I know books are like totes better than movies /hipster rant shuddup.)

The advantage of a book over visual media is the greater ability to explore characterization.

The Bane trilogy's "strong point" (lol) is the very thing that tends to be weakest in a book whereas its "weak point" is the very thing that's supposed to make a good book good.

I find your criticism of Plagueis to be fairly valid. Plagueis, while better written than Bane, does not make for a compelling protagonist because he's still pretty damn evil. Action and adventure are elusive in that book with the exception of the back-to-back chapters about the Maladian attack on the Order of the Canted Circle and Palpatine's subsequent retribution (these two chapters, I've often said, are the high point of the book). And lastly, the book reads too much like a chronology rather than its own self-contained story and I'm not impressed with it upon subsequent rereads.

That said, Luceno is ten times the novelist Karpyshyn is and so his failures tend to outstrip Karpyshyn's "triumphs" though I really hate to consider Bane a triumph by any stretch of the imagination.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And Rendezvous centered around several padawans I couldn't care less about until the end.

Now this one I couldn't disagree with more. Yoda: Dark Rendezvous is the strongest entry in the Star Wars Expanded Universe. At least in terms of full length novels. Impeccable characterization all around, excellent dialogue, damn-near flawless prose, and a compelling story. It's a shame Sean Stewart didn't author anymore SW stories.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Now this one I couldn't disagree with more. Yoda: Dark Rendezvous is the strongest entry in the Star Wars Expanded Universe. At least in terms of full length novels. Impeccable characterization all around, excellent dialogue, damn-near flawless prose, and a compelling story. It's a shame Sean Stewart didn't author anymore SW stories.
Scout, Whie, Ventress, and Dooku do not interest me at all.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Scout, Whie, Ventress, and Dooku do not interest me at all.

Whie doesn't particularly interest me either but Scout, Ventress, and Dooku all rock in that book.

Though on second thought, I agree that a character study of a legendary former Jedi who turned to the dark side and adopted the ways of the Sith initially to protect and purify a corrupted galaxy wouldn't be up your alley.

The Unifying Order was philosophically satisfying.

Originally posted by psmith81992
The Unifying Order was philosophically satisfying.

It would have been an ideal conclusion to the EU timeline, really.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Though on second thought, I agree that a character study of a legendary former Jedi who turned to the dark side and adopted the ways of the Sith initially to protect and purify a corrupted galaxy wouldn't be up your alley.
Revan's story was infinitely better then Dooku's (until SWTOR came, at least). Having Darth Maul in all three movies would have been a much better route, with Zonakin killing Maul to save Kenobi.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan's story was infinitely better then Dooku's (until SWTOR came, at least).

? They're more or less the same story, except Dooku was {presumably} converted over a lengthy period of personal trial and skillful manipulation by Darth Sidious whereas Revan folded to a cheap mind-whammy like a puss. uhuh

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Having Darth Maul in all three movies would have been a much better route, with Zonakin killing Maul to save Kenobi.

Not really. TPM!Maul would have made for a particularly unlikely figurehead for the Separatist movement.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It would have been an ideal conclusion to the EU timeline, really.

Yea, it should have been THE conclusion.


That's because one was mind raped, and the other was sexually seduced over years.

Revan is a more interesting character than Dooku imo. I never found Dooku that compelling.

That's why I said before TOR. The story of a person who wanted to save and protect people but fell through the chaos of war and destruction to achieve victory, turning him into the very thing he wanted to destroy.
Dooku just didn't like the fighting and wanted some power so Palpatine came along and offered him to join the Sith and Dooku accepted. Nothing special. Admittedly, TOR made Revan's story poor as well.


Your lack of faith is disturbing.

Revan's story in Kotor 2 was one of the most fascinating one's in the mythos, made even more mysterious and intriguing because we only ever heard about it from other peoples perspectives.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan is a more interesting character than Dooku imo. I never found Dooku that compelling.

I think Revan is the most interesting character in the mythos but that's largely because most of his story is a mystery.

Originally posted by psmith81992
That's because one was mind raped, and the other was sexually seduced over years.

But can you blame him, really?

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130512004419/villains/images/6/6a/Palpatine_Evil_Smile.jpg

Look at that face.





As I said, they're essentially the same story. Details, of course, vary. The only difference is that you're lovingly describing Revan's narrative and shortchanging Dooku's. Which is cool, that can be reversed at any time. The portrait painted by the lore is that Dooku wanted to save the Jedi and the galaxy from a corrupt Republic and, like Revan, used militant means to achieve victory all the while corrupting himself irrevocably. It's the same story. Except Dooku is portrayed by Christopher Lee and so wins by default.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I think Revan is the most interesting character in the mythos but that's largely because most of his story is a mystery.

Nah, that can't be it. There are literally dozens of Star Wars characters with more "mysterious" stories by virtue of the fact that they're unknown. I think your interest in Revan owes to the fact that you played him. He's a Messiah figure and polymath of absurd proportions: of his age, he's the best fighter, the best mechanic, the best pilot, the best swordsman, the best Force user, the best diplomat, the best politician, the best general, the best everything. And you assumed that identity, that role, those gifts.

It's wish fulfillment in the extreme. I personally find Revan intriguing, but I also believe he should remain an enigma for that very reason: no writer can do that level of fanservice justice.

A mysterious Messiah figure. Maybe it's because I played him but his story and his era is so damn interesting. He was a sith, a jedi, found a long lost civilization, etc. Can't find a more interesting story for a character.

Originally posted by psmith81992
A mysterious Messiah figure. Maybe it's because I played him but his story and his era is so damn interesting. He was a sith, a jedi, found a long lost civilization, etc. Can't find a more interesting story for a character.

Right, that's what I'm saying. He's The Ace and naturally that level of excellence arousesappeals to somebody like you. And many others.

I've always liked Revan for the same reason I've always liked Dooku. The difference, of course, is that Dooku is introduced not as a kid's wet dream but as (more or less) a fully fleshed character. With Dooku, we don't just get a set of personal skills and legend, but a presence and personality because he's portrayed by a veteran actor on screen. So, as mysterious as he is, Revan is infinitely moreso. We don't know his quirks, his mannerisms, his manner of speech, his personality, etc.

That's why Revan works best, imo, as a perpetual mystery. I don't want to see his face, I don't want a viewpoint section from him in a book, I don't want anything of the sort. What'll be put on paper can never ever live up to the cult of personality around him that the fans have created.

I thought that too, until all this new TOR stuff just came out that's going to make him look like a god.

I think whats more interesting to me about Revan as opposed to Dooku is that Revan actually was a hero who went to war to save the galaxy and succeeded. Dooku was just an idealist who got mislead like a chump. Revan's story is more compelling because it's more relate-able, heroic and tragic. But also, again, more mysterious. Why did he really go to war? Did he know what he was doing? Was he always so dark or did the war force him to become darker to win? We can endlessly speculate and form our own narratives of him.

Not to mention, Revan went toe to toe with the Sith Emperor, resisted his mind domination, and is once again on the brink of bringing the galaxy down.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I thought that too, until all this new TOR stuff just came out that's going to make him look like a god.

Until he fails, dies, retreats and nothing of consequence happens. It's not about making Revan (or any character, for that matter) "look like a god." It's about making him compelling. He works best as an enigma whose cult of personality is almost impenetrable. Was he as badass as everyone made him out to be? Perhaps. Or perhaps much of it was aggrandizement perpetuated by Revanchist supporters to deify their leader. Who knows? Either way, the only way to make him "like a god" is to make him into a Gary Stu and we're back to square one: Revan's sole purpose is to make insecure losers feel special.

You of all people should stand with me on this, given how much you hate the proverbial insecure loser. uhuh

Join me, my son.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think whats more interesting to me about Revan as opposed to Dooku is that Revan actually was a hero who went to war to save the galaxy and succeeded.

You're so silly. If success were the deciding factor in determining your interest, then this guy

https://i.imgflip.com/aork.jpg

Would be your all-time Star Wars favorite. But he's not, so I can't take this seriously. Give me something cogent here, bra.

No, I was saying that Revan actually did save the galaxy. Fighting the Mando's was the morally correct thing to do and I would have done the same thing. Which makes it more tragic that he lost his way precisely because he succeeded in saving the galaxy. It was the ultimate corruption of the ultimate hero. Even in his victory, he became the next threat. Compelling stuff.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, I was saying that Revan actually did save the galaxy. Fighting the Mando's was the morally correct thing to do and I would have done the same thing. Which makes it more tragic that he lost his way precisely because he succeeded in saving the galaxy. It was the ultimate corruption of the ultimate hero. Even in his victory, he became the next threat. Compelling stuff.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/yes/puddinpops.gif

You're still silly, you goalpost-mover. Revan indeed succeeded in his goal (though one could very cheaply argue that Dooku also succeeded in helping end the scourge of a corrupt Republic); how does that make him more compelling while simultaneously precluding success as a deciding factor in such things?

I'm feeling another Ackbar gif...

Revan destroyed the galaxy, purged the Jedi, then restored the galaxy. He kept the Emperor at bay fighting him for 300 years. Now he's about to destroy the galaxy and/or save it afterwards. That's not a Gary Stu.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Revan destroyed the galaxy, purged the Jedi, then restored the galaxy. He kept the Emperor at bay fighting him for 300 years. Now he's about to destroy the galaxy and/or save it afterwards. That's not a Gary Stu.

In the sense that he's unimaginably good at everything he does (minus the crippling fact that he succumbed to simple mind-rape like a b1tch, which initially amused me because it brought him down a peg but then ushered in an even cheaper character in the form of Vitiate in the ultimate "be careful what you wish for, Tempest" scenario) and his failures are always mitigated or glossed over entirely, yes, yes it does.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/yes/puddinpops.gif

You're still silly, you goalpost-mover. Revan indeed succeeded in his goal (though one could very cheaply argue that Dooku also succeeded in helping end the scourge of a corrupt Republic); how does that make him more compelling while simultaneously precluding success as a deciding factor in such things?

I'm feeling another Ackbar gif...

Because Revan was legitimately the hero of the Republic, their greatest champion who saved them from the brink of defeat. He was the era's Luke Skywalker. Dooku was a misguided rube. In a story it's more compelling when a character tries to do something legitimately good and noble (and actually succeeds in doing that thing), but in doing so becomes the villain and makes everything worse. Dooku never had the chance to do this because he was corrupted from the start and never had a shot at truly making the Republic a better place. He was always the villain. He doesn't have any sympathetic qualities and his CIS was way more corrupt and evil than the Republic.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because Revan was legitimately the hero of the Republic, their greatest champion who saved them from the brink of defeat. He was the era's Luke Skywalker.

Right. But what does that have to do with his success, which is what you claimed gave him the nod over Dooku?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku was a misguided rube. In a story it's more compelling when a character tries to do something legitimately good and noble (and actually succeeds in doing that thing), but in doing so becomes the villain and makes everything worse.

Er... what? That's... Dooku in a nutshell. Though I'm at a loss as to how Revan can both simultaneously succeed in his goals of saving the galaxy and make things worse for it at the same time? I'm not sure you have a cogent idea here, but if you do, you're not articulating it adequately.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku never had the chance to do this because he was corrupted from the start and never had a shot at truly making the Republic a better place. He was always the villain. He doesn't have any sympathetic qualities and his CIS was way more corrupt and evil than the Republic.

Er... what? We're introduced to Dooku as a villain, yes. The fact that his intentions are articulated through dialogue and novels doesn't undermine the story. If that were the case, Revan's story wouldn't at all be compelling because when we're "introduced" to him (a term I use loosely), he's a blank slate for a player character and all that we know of him is what we're told by other characters.

Sounds like you just want to like Revan more to take a not so thinly-veiled potshot at the PT. If there's any substance here, I'm not seeing it.

Beefy's articulating his thoughts well enough, even though I disagree. Yours are contradictory.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Right. But what does that have to do with his success, which is what you claimed gave him the nod over Dooku?

Just because I put succeeded in bold doesn't mean its the only important thing in the paragraph bro. But as I said the success comes into it because Revan was actually a hero who actually saved the galaxy whereas Dooku was just a moron who never had a shot at doing anything good. There was no high for him to fall from, so it's not as compelling. A bad man told him to do bad things and he did the bad things. I just don't find that as much of an epic fall from grace as Revan's going from saving the galaxy to trying to conquer it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Er... what? That's... Dooku in a nutshell. Though I'm at a loss as to how Revan can both simultaneously succeed in his goals of saving the galaxy and make things worse for it at the same time? I'm not sure you have a cogent idea here, but if you do, you're not articulating it adequately.

Revan saved the galaxy from the Mandalorians, but in doing so dragged himself and his followers over to the darkside and became a bigger threat than the Mando's ever were. Duh.

And no, its not Dooku in a nutshell. If Dooku had actually stamped out corruption by becoming a brutal tyrant for example, that would be similar. As it is Dooku never actually did anything good or noble. Him being a nice guy entirely comes from people telling us how nice and cool he was. He was just an easily manipulated idiot who was tricked into working with the very source of the corruption he was trying to eliminate and became an evil dick.


Originally posted by The_Tempest
Er... what? We're introduced to Dooku as a villain, yes. The fact that his intentions are articulated through dialogue and novels doesn't undermine the story. If that were the case, Revan's story wouldn't at all be compelling because when we're "introduced" to him (a term I use loosely), he's a blank slate for a player character and all that we know of him is what we're told by other characters.

Sounds like you just want to like Revan more to take a not so thinly-veiled potshot at the PT. If there's any substance here, I'm not seeing it.

Beefy's articulating his thoughts well enough, even though I disagree. Yours are contradictory.

Theres a difference between a great hero corrupted to evil through his struggle to destroy it and a guy everyone really liked who was tricked into evil and too dumb to realise it.

It wasn't a potshot (I mean, NOW I'm taking potshots but not before), I just said I found Revan more interesting because his heroics were real, his goal was noble and you could totally relate with his story. I can't relate with Dooku's story, partially because ****ing politics isn't as interesting as war, partly because I can't see how the government being corrupt can justify starting a war that would murder b/trillions of people and partly because Dooku wasn't as big a hero as Revan was before his fall.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Just because I put succeeded in bold doesn't mean its the only important thing in the paragraph bro. But as I said the success comes into it because Revan was actually a hero who actually saved the galaxy whereas Dooku was just a moron who never had a shot at doing anything good. There was no high for him to fall from, so it's not as compelling. A bad man told him to do bad things and he did the bad things. I just don't find that as much of an epic fall from grace as Revan's going from saving the galaxy to trying to conquer it.

This was a very uneconomic way of restating that you find Revan more compelling because he succeeded in his goal, which you already stated here:



I don't fault you for finding his success compelling; in fact, I don't even fault you for using that as the deciding factor between Revan and Dooku. I just know that you never cite success in any other similar debate. Which, of course, leads me to believe that you're being disingenuous for some sinister reason.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But as I said the success comes into it because Revan was actually a hero who actually saved the galaxy whereas Dooku was just a moron who never had a shot at doing anything good. There was no high for him to fall from, so it's not as compelling. A bad man told him to do bad things and he did the bad things. I just don't find that as much of an epic fall from grace as Revan's going from saving the galaxy to trying to conquer it.



http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/the-dark-knight-rises/thumb/2/23/Harvey_Dent_The_Dark_Knight.jpg/228px-Harvey_Dent_The_Dark_Knight.jpg

That does indeed sound pretty lame.

Anyway, let's walk through it:

Revan = legendary Jedi; Dooku = legendary Jedi.

Revan = wants to save the galaxy; Dooku = wants to save the galaxy.

Revan = disillusioned with precepts of the Jedi Council and an ineffective Republic; Dooku = disillusioned with precepts of the Jedi Council and an ineffective Republic.

Revan = opens himself to alternative tactics and means to accomplish his goal of saving the galaxy; Dooku = opens himself up to alternative tactics and means to accomplish his goal of saving the galaxy.

Revan = embraces the philosophy and powers of the Sith to achieve his ends; Dooku = embraces the philosophy and powers of the Sith to achieve his ends.

Revan = succumbs to the dark side, becomes a major prick whose reign of terror is interrupted by fate and betrayal; Dooku = succumbs to the dark side, becomes a major prick whose reign of terror is interrupted by fate and betrayal.

Revan = survives this interruption, is mentally rewired into becoming a Good Guy, and his story continues; Dooku = doesn't survive this interruption and dies a dark side accolyte, unredeemed.

The only difference (minus the conclusions of their stories) is that Revan "succeeded" in his goal of saving the galaxy due to circumstance whereas Dooku was trumped by a greater evil and foiled. (Though again, one could argue that his actions helped lead to the downfall of the Jedi and a corrupt Republic.)

Saying that Dooku was a moron yadda yadda is all well and good and fine, but there's really no difference.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
This was a very uneconomic way of restating that you find Revan more compelling because he succeeded in his goal, which you already stated here:



I don't fault you for finding his success compelling; in fact, I don't even fault you for using that as the deciding factor between Revan and Dooku. I just know that you never cite success in any other similar debate. Which, of course, leads me to believe that you're being disingenuous for some sinister reason.

Well obviously I'm restating that I find Revan more compelling because he succeeded in his goal, because you asked my WHY I do so. Hence me explaining why I do so and you promptly missing ze point.

So.... nice job?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/the-dark-knight-rises/thumb/2/23/Harvey_Dent_The_Dark_Knight.jpg/228px-Harvey_Dent_The_Dark_Knight.jpg

That does indeed sound pretty lame.

Anyway, let's walk through it:

Revan = legendary Jedi; Dooku = legendary Jedi.

Revan = wants to save the galaxy; Dooku = wants to save the galaxy.

Revan = disillusioned with precepts of the Jedi Council and an ineffective Republic; Dooku = disillusioned with precepts of the Jedi Council and an ineffective Republic.

Revan = opens himself to alternative tactics and means to accomplish his goal of saving the galaxy; Dooku = opens himself up to alternative tactics and means to accomplish his goal of saving the galaxy.

Revan = embraces the philosophy and powers of the Sith to achieve his ends; Dooku = embraces the philosophy and powers of the Sith to achieve his ends.

Revan = succumbs to the dark side, becomes a major prick whose reign of terror is interrupted by fate and betrayal; Dooku = succumbs to the dark side, becomes a major prick whose reign of terror is interrupted by fate and betrayal.

Revan = survives this interruption, is mentally rewired into becoming a Good Guy, and his story continues; Dooku = doesn't survive this interruption and dies a dark side accolyte, unredeemed.

The only difference (minus the conclusions of their stories) is that Revan "succeeded" in his goal of saving the galaxy due to circumstance whereas Dooku was trumped by a greater evil and foiled. (Though again, one could argue that his actions helped lead to the downfall of the Jedi and a corrupt Republic.)

Saying that Dooku was a moron yadda yadda is all well and good and fine, but there's really no difference.

The similarities between them don't change that there were differences that made Revan's story more compelling. Sorry bro, I just don't find someone being tricked into being evil as compelling as Revan's stuff. Just like I don't find Revan being mind-tricked into being evil compelling in the new TOR stuff.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well obviously I'm restating that I find Revan more compelling because he succeeded in his goal, because you asked my WHY I do so. Hence me explaining why I do so and you promptly missing ze point.

So.... nice job?

There's no point to miss, my son. Appreciating Revan's success and finding that more engaging than another failed misguided-hero-falls-to-the-dark-side story is all well and good. I'm ok with that. But you've never used success as a measuring stick before otherwise Palpatine would shit all over every Sith Lord ever in your book, so I shrewdly perceive your reason as utterly valid on paper (again, success is cool) but but your argument in general as entirely dishonest.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The similarities between them don't change that there were differences that made Revan's story more compelling. Sorry bro, I just don't find someone being tricked into being evil as compelling as Revan's stuff. Just like I don't find Revan being mind-tricked into being evil compelling in the new TOR stuff.

My son, my son... I'm perfectly fine with you preferring Revan to Dooku. You needn't apologize for your preferences. That wasn't the issue.

And yes, being tricked into being evil is kinda goofy, innit?

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/the-dark-knight-rises/thumb/2/23/Harvey_Dent_The_Dark_Knight.jpg/228px-Harvey_Dent_The_Dark_Knight.jpg

Originally posted by The_Tempest
There's no point to miss, my son. Appreciating Revan's success and finding that more engaging than another failed misguided-hero-falls-to-the-dark-side story is all well and good. I'm ok with that. But you've never used success as a measuring stick before otherwise Palpatine would shit all over every Sith Lord ever in your book, so I shrewdly perceive your reason as utterly valid on paper (again, success is cool) but but your argument in general as entirely dishonest.

If that's what you want to think that's cool, no dishonesty here, honest.

Sidious' success is a factor in his favor but it's undone by the horrible writing and acting around him that drags his story down. Plus as I said, that Revan successfully saving the galaxy was only one factor and is only significant because of how it meshes with the other aspects of his story. It only helps to make his fall bigger because it puts him on a higher level of heroism.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
My son, my son... I'm perfectly fine with you preferring Revan to Dooku. You needn't apologize for your preferences. That wasn't the issue.

And yes, being tricked into being evil is kinda goofy, innit?

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/the-dark-knight-rises/thumb/2/23/Harvey_Dent_The_Dark_Knight.jpg/228px-Harvey_Dent_The_Dark_Knight.jpg

What is the issue then?

Dent a) had been established as the beacon of hope for Gotham beforehand b) wasn't tricked, he was made insane through extreme trauma and c) had quality storytelling and acting behind him on top of us actually seeing his fall and seeing what he goes through to get there, allowing us to become emotionally invested in his story.

Darth Bane: Path to Destruction.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Er... what? That's... Dooku in a nutshell.

Not quite.

Beg your pardon but have either of you read the ROTS novel? Since in that it's stated that Dooku was always evil (I know I'm over-simplifying). In the novel it flat-out states that Dooku never understood friendship, love or joy, and that he didn't perceive other living beings as "real." Put simply, Dooku was a sociopath.

Lmao.

Yeah. Read Path of the Jedi. Dooku says some pretty douchey things in it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lmao.

Don't take my word for it. Read the novel and see for yourself.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah. Read Path of the Jedi. Dooku says some pretty douchey things in it.

That he does.

Path and the Jedi and Book of the Sith were ****ing great BTW.

I thought it was a very interesting look into both the Jedi and the Sith Orders and Philosophies. Something I found rather amusing were the snide comments left by the Sith in Path of the Jedi, and the snide comments left by the Jedi in Book of the Sith.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Not quite.

Beg your pardon but have either of you read the ROTS novel? Since in that it's stated that Dooku was always evil (I know I'm over-simplifying). In the novel it flat-out states that Dooku never understood friendship, love or joy, and that he didn't perceive other living beings as "real." Put simply, Dooku was a sociopath. He already sounds more interesting than Revan.

A sociopath trying to do good, but his lack of empathy and the machinations of Lord Sidious lead to him unwittingly doing evil. It's tragic, because his very nature prohibits him from understanding he is doing wrong.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He already sounds more interesting than Revan.

A sociopath trying to do good, but his lack of empathy and the machinations of Lord Sidious lead to him unwittingly doing evil. It's tragic, because his very nature prohibits him from understanding he is doing wrong.

I couldn't agree more with that statement

The Dark Lord trilogy.

Rise of Darth Vader, the Plagueis Novel, Deceived, Shatterpoint, and the ROTS novelization.

Among novels:-

1. Star Wars: The Old Republic - Deceived
2. Star Wars: Darth Bane - Path of Destruction

Among other books:-

1. Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
2. Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


1. Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Excellent point. I have to admit when asked about Star Wars books I tend to only think about the novels.

Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia is awesome. It's one of the most enjoyable books I've read.

Knights of the Old Republic Prima Guide is wonderful.