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I hate using Pre Crisis characters, but I'm having doubts that the most current validus would be enough.

Fight takes place on a super durable battle planet.

Who wins?

Validus.
Stronger than Superman, impervious, mental lightning.
Champion would be steamrolled 9 times out of 10. He's the better fighter. But Validus is s beast.

with the power gem means his strength and general power would be LIMITLESS !!! Validus has no fight skill, just brute force, Champion would destroy him and laugh about it.

Originally posted by complexbrother
with the power gem means his strength and general power would be LIMITLESS !!! Validus has no fight skill, just brute force, Champion would destroy him and laugh about it.

Potentially limitless, not limitless. Very big difference.

Originally posted by complexbrother
with the power gem means his strength and general power would be LIMITLESS !!! Validus has no fight skill, just brute force, Champion would destroy him and laugh about it.

PC Kryptonians were KO'ing themselves just by running into Validus, who barely even noticed it. Champion will, by no stretch of the imagination, not be doing a thing to him except getting blood stains on whatever Validus happens to be wearing.

Champion DIES!

You may close the thread!

Originally posted by Surtur
PC Kryptonians were KO'ing themselves just by running into Validus, who barely even noticed it. Champion will, by no stretch of the imagination, not be doing a thing to him except getting blood stains on whatever Validus happens to be wearing.

Characters job to other characters for sake of plot all of the time. PC Superman's best feat is above Validus' best feat, so we should keep the Kryptonians out of this, or if we use them in an attempt to prove a point, it should be done to a minimal. Validus, is not a Kryptonian, or PC Superman. What has Val done that the Champion could not do? Tear a planet apart with his bare hands? Champion could effortlessly do that as well if you think about it.

Wasn't Drax using the power gem KOed?

Even if the gem gives Juggernaut level durability, the gem has a tendency to get dislodged during fights. Plus, Champion can't fly, so it's pretty much bfr if Validus knocks him off the planet (And out of the solar system, like he did to Superboy).

Originally posted by Stoic
Characters job to other characters for sake of plot all of the time. PC Superman's best feat is above Validus' best feat, so we should keep the Kryptonians out of this, or if we use them in an attempt to prove a point, it should be done to a minimal. Validus, is not a Kryptonian, or PC Superman. What has Val done that the Champion could not do? Tear a planet apart with his bare hands? Champion could effortlessly do that as well if you think about it.

Champion never humbled PC Superman, Mon-El, and Ultra-Boy like sick children.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Champion never humbled PC Superman, Mon-El, and Ultra-Boy like sick children.

The Champion was also never in a comic with them from what I know.

Originally posted by cdtm
Wasn't Drax using the power gem KOed?

Even if the gem gives Juggernaut level durability, the gem has a tendency to get dislodged during fights. Plus, Champion can't fly, so it's pretty much bfr if Validus knocks him off the planet (And out of the solar system, like he did to Superboy).

Drax? Are you being serious? How can you compare someone with the intelligence of a cat to someone that possesses the power primordial? The Power Gem is tapped mentally. Drax could only manage to draw power from it subconsciously. There is a big difference. The loss of the gems of power from being ripped off is also PIS from what I understood. Not to mention that Validus wouldn't really possess the intelligence to even consider this course of action. What stops the champion from punching Validus out into deep space? Maybe a force field should be placed up so that BFR is not an option. Yeah let's do that. No BFR.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Champion was also never in a comic with them from what I know.

You are being willfully obtuse.

When has Champion ever faced a group as powerful as PC Superman, Mon-El and Ultra-Boy?

When has Champion defeated a group as powerful as PC Superman, Mon-El and Ultra-Boy?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You are being willfully obtuse.

When has Champion ever faced a group as powerful as PC Superman, Mon-El and Ultra-Boy?

When has Champion defeated a group as powerful as PC Superman, Mon-El and Ultra-Boy?

I'm not being obtuse, I have no doubt, that if the Champion were in those books, that he would have done the same thing to them. Not to mention that Validus shouldn't have ever been able to lay a hand on them. PC characters have really high highs, and then they have their lows which outright goes against their higher end feats. You can not claim that Validus can sneeze, and threaten a galaxy or more. You seeing me as being obtuse, is because you are having trouble scaling, which is why you should not lean too heavily on what PC Superman was capable of, at his best.

Validus.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Validus.

How would he outfight the Champion?

By punching his head off.

Originally posted by Golgo13
By punching his head off.
Nah.

Hed punch in half

Originally posted by Golgo13
By punching his head off.

The thing here is that the Champ has a lot more combat expertise than Validus does. I think people are underestimating the Power gem, and the Champions ability as a combatant.

Didn't look so good against Surfer and Thanos.

The only time he's really been written as the be all, end all fighter is in She Hulk's comic, and the way Shulk beat him was so bad it made everyone Champion beat look pathetic by proxy...

Originally posted by cdtm
Didn't look so good against Surfer and Thanos.

The only time he's really been written as the be all, end all fighter is in She Hulk's comic, and the way Shulk beat him was so bad it made everyone Champion beat look pathetic by proxy...

If I recall Champion didn't have the Power Gem on that occasion. Although I may be wrong.

And the Thanos fight wasn't necessarily bad.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
If I recall Champion didn't have the Power Gem on that occasion. Although I may be wrong.

And the Thanos fight wasn't necessarily bad.

It wasn't bad at all. Thanos' shields withstood a massive amount of power,from the Champions fists. Just consider how one of his punches were more than likely capable of one shot destroying the planet that they were on with ease.

So, who has Champion beaten with the Gem? Anybody on PC Kryptonians level?

Originally posted by Golgo13
So, who has Champion beaten with the Gem? Anybody on PC Kryptonians level?

Now, now, by asking this question you are indicating your "Inability at SCALING".

Originally posted by Stoic
It wasn't bad at all. Thanos' shields withstood a massive amount of power,from the Champions fists. Just consider how one of his punches were more than likely capable of one shot destroying the planet that they were on with ease.

Also don't forget the durability he showed by tanking Thanos's blast. He was just straight up walking through it.

Then you have the fact like you mentioned that Champion was about to break his shields in a few punches until he jumped up in the air.

Originally posted by Stoic
The thing here is that the Champ has a lot more combat expertise than Validus does. I think people are underestimating the Power gem, and the Champions ability as a combatant.
Not everyone. Check out that first reply.
Guy knew his stuff.

Champion wins.

With the PG he isnt losing

Validus accidentally kills this loser.

Champion knows how to tap into the gem. He cant lose this

Originally posted by Stoic
The Champion was also never in a comic with them from what I know.



Drax? Are you being serious? How can you compare someone with the intelligence of a cat to someone that possesses the power primordial? The Power Gem is tapped mentally. Drax could only manage to draw power from it subconsciously. There is a big difference. The loss of the gems of power from being ripped off is also PIS from what I understood. Not to mention that Validus wouldn't really possess the intelligence to even consider this course of action. What stops the champion from punching Validus out into deep space? Maybe a force field should be placed up so that BFR is not an option. Yeah let's do that. No BFR.

Actually I do not know why people has not mentioned this before but Champion tapped into the Power Gem on a subconscious level too. To the point that He thought the power gem was a lucky charm.

Unless it has been retcon

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/ThanosQuest1-24_zps882b6ddd.jpg

So basically he is just a dumb brick like Drax who has no idea how to use the power gem.

And just also worth mentioning here. Drax did not even know He could destroy a planet by causing a chain reaction. There is that too.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Champion knows how to tap into the gem. He cant lose this
So "no limit fallacy" it is. Figured.

CORRECTION

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
CHAMPION did not even know He could destroy a planet by causing a chain reaction. There is that too.

I actually think Champion was better at using the gem than most think:
http://i.imgur.com/Uu9x1jG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UpsGHRK.jpg

...Not that he beats Val, though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So "no limit fallacy" it is. Figured.

You do know the gem has unlimited power right?

Originally posted by Galan007
I actually think Champion was better at using the gem than most think:
http://i.imgur.com/Uu9x1jG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UpsGHRK.jpg

...Not that he beats Val, though.

Lol...what happened next?

^Exactly. With it Titania effortlessly stomped Jupiter suit Shulkie who was comfortably stronger than Hercules.

Backed by the full gem Champion is basically invulnerable and has unlimited might.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...what happened next? http://i.imgur.com/jIqhINv.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
So "no limit fallacy" it is. Figured.

Not like the gems eventually shattered. From use of the full Infinity Gauntlet.

Or that broken tier power copier Duplicate Boy, who's power is to copy everyone elses power in the universe (Including PC Superboy, Mon El, Ultra Boy..), actually overloaded himself trying to copy Validus's powers.

A single gem probably breaks before it does much more then tickle Val.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Actually I do not know why people has not mentioned this before but Champion tapped into the Power Gem on a subconscious level too. To the point that He thought the power gem was a lucky charm.

Unless it has been retcon

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/ThanosQuest1-24_zps882b6ddd.jpg

So basically he is just a dumb brick like Drax who has no idea how to use the power gem.

And just also worth mentioning here. Drax did not even know He could destroy a planet by causing a chain reaction. There is that too.

It was subject to retcon, or he would not have been able to teach Titania how to use it. Can you see Drax teaching anyone how to use something that he did not know how to use himself?

Originally posted by Stoic
It was subject to retcon, or he would not have been able to teach Titania how to use it. Can you see Drax teaching anyone how to use something that he did not know how to use himself?

I think that is more like he learned how to use AFTER he lost it to Thanos.

In any case, seems this gems work more like a power ring and it will depend on the wielder entirely.

Potentially a ring could be the most powerful weapon in the world and the limits are set by the wielder.

The power gem will potentially grant the wielder infinite power, yet still depends on the wielder if he can achieve this on not. Imo he will not be able to achieve the power level to defeat validus even if the gem will prob grant him the power. I base this on his showings with the gem.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I think that is more like he learned how to use AFTER he lost it to Thanos.

In any case, seems this gems work more like a power ring and it will depend on the wielder entirely.

Potentially a ring could be the most powerful weapon in the world and the limits are set by the wielder.

The power gem will potentially grant the wielder infinite power, yet still depends on the wielder if he can achieve this on not. Imo he will not be able to achieve the power level to defeat validus even if the gem will prob grant him the power. I base this on his showings with the gem.

No he always knew how to use the PG, they just dumbed him down to give others good showings against him. he isn't stupid by any stretch, and should never be placed in the same category as Drax. He would have never been able to teach Titania how to use the gem, if he had no idea of how it worked. He also had it for ages.

Based on the ease that he destroyed that planet in Thanos Quest, I would say that he could certainly tear a planet apart with his bare hands. i said this before, and i'll say it again. Validus didn't beat a Superman that could sneeze away a galaxy, he beat one that was nerfed down for the sake of making him appear to be that great. How would he even lay a hand on Superman, and the others if they did not want to be touched? They were written down for sake of plot.

What feats does Validus have outside of that showing? If you argue the no limits fallacy tactic, I will argue does a character need to have no limits to defeat Validus. If you tell me that the Champion destroying a planet like it was nothing, and attach that it was a space cheese feat, I will ask you the same of Validus. I will also ask you how in the world he would defeat someone that has spent millions of years training in martial arts, when he is as dumb as Drax was. i mean, how in the world would he lay a glove on him?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I think that is more like he learned how to use AFTER he lost it to Thanos.

In any case, seems this gems work more like a power ring and it will depend on the wielder entirely.

Potentially a ring could be the most powerful weapon in the world and the limits are set by the wielder.

The power gem will potentially grant the wielder infinite power, yet still depends on the wielder if he can achieve this on not. Imo he will not be able to achieve the power level to defeat validus even if the gem will prob grant him the power. I base this on his showings with the gem.

Validus wins

Champ was strong enough with the gem that Thanos knew he could not physically beat him. A mindless Thor in a warrior madness rage would have physically beaten Thanos too due to the gem and he didn't even know what he was doing mentally at the time.

I don't think we've ever seen the upper limits of the gem. Marvel writes the Champion like the Rhino for some reason. An Elder Of The Universe with eons and eons worth of h2h training plus the power gem? That should be a pretty stout combination if written properly. I'm not saying he beats Validus (hell he loses almost every single time for some reason), but I cant see Validus over powering him physically.

Originally posted by bbrem123
You do know the gem has unlimited power right?
It does? Then "unlimited power" shattered repelling a single universe combined with 5 other "unlimited power" gems?

And prove that Champion could even tap into that much power.

Originally posted by tkitna
Champ was strong enough with the gem that Thanos knew he could not physically beat him. A mindless Thor in a warrior madness rage would have physically beaten Thanos too due to the gem and he didn't even know what he was doing mentally at the time.

I don't think we've ever seen the upper limits of the gem. Marvel writes the Champion like the Rhino for some reason. An Elder Of The Universe with eons and eons worth of h2h training plus the power gem? That should be a pretty stout combination if written properly. I'm not saying he beats Validus (hell he loses almost every single time for some reason), but I cant see Validus over powering him physically.
Then you need better "glasses".

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then you need better "glasses".

Whats wrong with my glasses?

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Science/Images/monkey-with-glasses.jpg

Writers are dumb. Champion has the power of the big bang inside of him, knows every fighting style in the universe and is a physical god and they write him like crap.

Originally posted by carver9
Marvel Writers are dumb. Champion has the power of the big bang inside of him, knows every fighting style in the universe and is a physical god and they write him like crap.

Originally posted by carver9
Writers are dumb. Champion has the power of the big bang inside of him, knows every fighting style in the universe and is a physical god and they write him like crap.

Yeah, it pisses me off. He actually should be one of the most dangerous characters in the known Marvel Universe, but instead, he's getting kicked around by She-Hulk.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

Originally posted by tkitna
Yeah, it pisses me off. He actually should be one of the most dangerous characters in the known Marvel Universe, but instead, he's getting kicked around by She-Hulk.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

Originally posted by tkitna
Yeah, it pisses me off. He actually should be one of the most dangerous characters in the known Marvel Universe, but instead, he's getting kicked around by She-Hulk.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/images/smilies/facepalm.gif She Hulk was like way the shit stronger than Herc at the time. Holding back and depowered. She fought Champ at max levels.

I mean it was dumb but at least it had merit.

Well, power level wise, Champion went from struggling with Surfer and working to keep Thing down, to going through Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill like Tyson went through contenders in his prime. But My main problem how she won, is she was the only one who thought to get Champion to put the power gem down. Made the other characters look like idiots, basically.


Never could confirm whether Herc went from demigod to god in a story, or if writers just forgot he was supposed to be at half strength. Pretty sure at this point it's the latter, as there's zero info in his bio's about regaining full godhood..

And yeah. She Hulk was so strong, she needed a special suit to control her strength, and held back against Herc in an arm wrestling match so she wouldn't hurt his pride.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

I mean it was dumb but at least it had merit.

The first part is true for sure. Ok, so she was stronger than Hercules, she still was fighting an Elder Of The Universe who's 1000's or whatever years of existence is to learn every fighting style he can and to beat people up. The guy should be above Karate Kid in fighting skills to be honest. He should have went through She-Hulk like Bruce Lee would a common street thug.

Probably the dumbest story I've ever read to be honest.

Originally posted by tkitna
Whats wrong with my glasses?

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Science/Images/monkey-with-glasses.jpg


Well played.

There's a problem that the pro-champion side should discuss.

The Champion who was virtually invulnerable was a complete idiot.

The Champion who was a skilled fighter was far from invulnerable.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
She Hulk was like way the shit stronger than Herc at the time. Holding back and depowered. She fought Champ at max levels.

I mean it was dumb but at least it had merit.

If I recall he didn't use the Power Gem at the time of the She-Hulk fight did he?

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
If I recall he didn't use the Power Gem at the time of the She-Hulk fight did he? Did the first fight. Didn't the second when Shulk wasn't holding back or depowered.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Did the first fight. Didn't the second when Shulk wasn't holding back or depowered.

Ah okay, thanks for the clarification.

Batman