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Each in their prime.

Who wins who dies?

Vaders win rather solidly.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Vaders win rather solidly.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Vaders win rather solidly.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Vaders win rather solidly.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Vaders win rather solidly.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Vaders win rather solidly.

I sense a Vader wank again.

Alrighty ;

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/StarWars-DarkTimesOcircCcediloumlASparkRemains005-013_zps437587b1.jpg

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/pdf17_zps5447cfa5.png

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/StarWars-TheForceUnleashedII-028_zps8865dac5.jpg

vldxgFHuw98

I am going with Clone Wars Team. Both are much faster than crippled half droid half man.

Originally posted by Marco1907
I sense a Vader wank again.

Alrighty ;

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/StarWars-DarkTimesOcircCcediloumlASparkRemains005-013_zps437587b1.jpg

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/pdf17_zps5447cfa5.png

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/StarWars-TheForceUnleashedII-028_zps8865dac5.jpg

vldxgFHuw98

Vader vastly improved his saber skills after that point.

So, he can get ass kicked by Luke. Vader lost to Luke only because of his timing disadvantage and he wasn't fast enough. If you are not claiming that Luke is faster than Maul or Dooku, then my point is still valid.

Then prove Maul is faster than Luke.

Luke's Force potential outstripes Maul's by miles.

It must take balls of STEEL for you to claim other people "wank" characters.

The irony is f**king hilarious.

None of these are new to me. According to what is TCW Maul faster than his TPM counterpart? Besides, Luke as of RotJ has replicated most of the listed feats.

Maul really doesn't get enough credit, no. But then again, neither do Dooku or Rebellion-era Luke.

Originally posted by Marco1907

Ah because no one wanks Maul, that's only me. Vader and Sidious wankers are too many while Maul wankers are too few.
http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1503/15037917/2424425-6555272247-hyde-.gif

WAT?

Saying Maul>Vader is lolworthy.

Ah I forgot,

Vader is faster than thought. That is why Vader beats.

Vader beats Maul because he's faster, stronger, more powerful, more durable, and has armor. Maul on the other hand has losing for the bast 15 years on his resume.

Also lol@continuing to post that removed scene when Sidious would do the exact same thing to Maul.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader beats Maul because he's faster,



Alright, please don't respond me anymore, because really,
I can't argue with someone who thinks that Vader is faster than Maul...

http://www.starwars.com/video/the-starwars-com-10-best-fights

3:29



Alright, now here is the confirmation that TPM Maul faster than RotJ Vader.

Wow, and Sidious too. Nice.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, and Sidious too. Nice.

Sidious never showed his speed in TPM..........facepalm

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, and Sidious too. Nice.
Maul's deadlier than everyone. No wonder he got his ass kicked. He's just that fast.

This thread gives me the encouragement to do my Force Augmentation blog tonight instead of tomorrow.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader beats Maul because he's faster, stronger, more powerful, more durable, and has armor. Maul on the other hand has losing for the bast 15 years on his resume.

Also lol@continuing to post that removed scene when Sidious would do the exact same thing to Maul.



Originally posted by Trocity
It must take balls of STEEL for you to claim other people "wank" characters.

The irony is f**king hilarious.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, and Sidious too. Nice.



Deadlier as well.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
This thread gives me the encouragement to do my Force Augmentation blog tonight instead of tomorrow.

Will you post it on CV? I'm interested.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Will you post it on CV? I'm interested.
All my blogs are created on CV with the links posted here.

Yeah he is deadlier, killed Qui-Gon. I don't remember Vader killing his opponent in a lightsaber duel (if you don't count Ben's force ghost thing), so.

RotJ Vader killed our hearts. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

Vader did kill one of his opponents in a lightsaber duel. What was his name again....Darth Mike. Darth Matt? Darth Martin? No, I'm drawing a blank, but I'm sure I'll think of it.

Sounds like Paul IIRC.

In the *Movies* ... Maul deadlier than Vader.

Prove Qui-Gon was a superior opponent than Old Ben Kenobi using only the movies.

Prove Qui-Gon was deadlier period.

he was played by Liem neeson

Old Ben Kenobi turned into a ghost by his own will. ****

And? Vader and Obi-Wan were matched in blade work and speed. What is your point?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader beats Maul because he's faster, stronger, more powerful, more durable, and has armor. Maul on the other hand has losing for the bast 15 years on his resume.

Also lol@continuing to post that removed scene when Sidious would do the exact same thing to Maul.

Vader is not faster lol. That being said his reaction times allow him to keep up with the faster Maul.

I actually agree, Vader isn't faster--Though Rebellion!Luke is really close.

I honestly feel like when you're dealing with characters like Maul, Vader, Dooku, Obi-Wan, Ventress and so on, combat/reaction speed feats become pretty negligible. If we were to literally go by who has the best feats, Obi-Wan has deflected omnidirectional blaster fire from thousands of droids simultaneously, which is a far cry faster than anything, say, Darth Maul has done. But when you look at how they're portrayed in duels against similar opponents, combat speed tends to be one of the least important factors. Which is essentially why I see characters like those listed above as more or less equal in combat/reaction speed. It's only when you started going up to characters like Yoda, or down to characters like Qui-Gon Jinn, that you start seeing disparities in speed.

Originally posted by ILS
If we were to literally go by who has the best feats, Obi-Wan has deflected omnidirectional blaster fire from thousands of droids simultaneously, which is a far cry faster than anything, say, Darth Maul has done.

I'm pretty sure he hasn't.

Yeah, he hasn't.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Vader is not faster lol.
Vader is faster lol. Your move.

Vader is more durable and is more powerful in the Force than either of them. But Dooku and Maul are more skilled with the lightsaber than Vader. But they are only marginally better than Vader. And Vaders strength would play to his advantage against Dooku.

He has.

Non canon bro.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Vader is more durable and is more powerful in the Force than either of them. But Dooku and Maul are more skilled with the lightsaber than Vader. But they are only marginally better than Vader. And Vaders strength would play to his advantage against Dooku.

I don't think Maul is more skilled than peak!Vader, especially not by any sizable margin.

Originally posted by ILS
He has.

No, none of those droids ever fired a single shot at him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, none of those droids ever fired a single shot at him.
Uhm

What Neph means is that in the movie none of the droids fired upon Kenobi, meaning the passage is contradicted by a higher canon source and thus never happened.

LOL, alrighty then.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Ah because no one wanks Maul, that's only me. Vader and Sidious wankers are too many while Maul wankers are too few.

http://i.imgur.com/ILXBmMo.gif

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader is faster lol. Your move.

Lol.

Originally posted by Marco1907
I sense a Vader wank again.

Alrighty ;

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/StarWars-DarkTimesOcircCcediloumlASparkRemains005-013_zps437587b1.jpg

That was a good point.

"I was looking for a kind of swordfighting that was reminiscent of what was in the movies that we'd already done, but a more energised version of it, because we've actually never seen real Jedis at work, we'd only seen - you know - old men and crippled, half-droid, half men and young boys that had learned form these people. So, to see a Jedi fighting in the prime of the Jedi, I wanted it to be a much more energetic and faster version of what we've been doing."

It highly suggest, that even ROTJ Vader was inferior to Maul as a swordmaster.

Vader has far greater hype then Maul or Dooku. His non-duels showings are also far superior. But in a fights against Jedi or other Force sensitives, Vader looks poor. Even "Jedi random" like Kai Hudorra could notice Vader's lack of speed.
Vader - unlike Shaak Ti - couldn't find an advantage over Starkiller in pure lightsaber duel.
Vader couldn't hard-press rusty Kenobi.
Vader was loosing to Maul's clone.
Vader had a very hard time against Dark Woman.
Luke supported by Ben was able to compete with Vader during their fight of Mimban. And - as Marco pointed - his lack of speed enabled Luke to find advantage over him.
Despite his raw power in the Force (which was still great, even after Mustafar), and his physical advantage, he wasn't able to defend himself properly against enraged Luke during their fight on DS2. Luke's powerful blows exhausted him, and he almost fall on the round even before Luke cut off his hand.

Originally posted by Marco1907
http://www.starwars.com/video/the-starwars-com-10-best-fights



You know that's the second time I've seen an analysis of the SW Lightsaber fights on SW.COM, and both times they state the end of the Mace vs Sidious fight is still debatable if Mace legitimately won or if Sidious threw the fight.

@mcp



As for Obi-Wan deflecting multiple blaster fire, that is because of his mastery. As a master of Soresu, that is his speciality, Soresu style is created for deflecting blaster bolts, just like makashi created for lightsaber duels.
That is why he can even deflect a blaster bolt while his back is turned.
ButBRZytQIE


On the other hand, Kit Fisto can speedblitz more droid or creatures than Obi-Wan, due to his superior speed and Shi-cho mastery. Style is important on this one as well.

Originally posted by McP


That was a good point.

"I was looking for a kind of swordfighting that was reminiscent of what was in the movies that we'd already done, but a more energised version of it, because we've actually never seen real Jedis at work, we'd only seen - you know - old men and crippled, half-droid, half men and young boys that had learned form these people. So, to see a Jedi fighting in the prime of the Jedi, I wanted it to be a much more energetic and faster version of what we've been doing."




Thing is TCW Maul is also half machine now. So not sure there's any logic left in using that as a reason for Maul being faster.

That being said, I don't believe for a second that Vader is faster than Maul. More powerful? Yeah. Faster? No.

Whilst Maul is clearly more mobile/agile.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Thing is TCW Maul is also half machine now. So not sure there's any logic left in using that as a reason for Maul being faster.

That being said, I don't believe for a second that Vader is faster than Maul. More powerful? Yeah. Faster? No.

Whilst Maul is clearly more mobile/agile.

But, Maul is not a half machine like Vader is. The reason Vader is slow because of his breathing apparatus and heavy armor. Maul just got new legs, he doesn't have breathing apparatus and any armor to make extra weight.

Obi-Wan also said Vader is more machine than man, you can't say the same thing about Maul.

Vader in his best showings is faster than Maul. Vader in his worst showings is slower than Maul. His exact speed has always been in flux, because people have different ideas about him and sources contradict each other.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vader in his best showings is faster than Maul. Vader in his worst showings is slower than Maul. His exact speed has always been in flux, because people have different ideas about him and sources contradict each other.

Pretty much this. Vader's speed can vary, but regardless of wether he is slower, equal, or faster than Maul, it is certain on average that the difference is by no means considerable, and it's idiotic to argue that it is (not talking about you of course, it's just a general statement).

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vader in his best showings is faster than Maul. Vader in his worst showings is slower than Maul. His exact speed has always been in flux, because people have different ideas about him and sources contradict each other.

Vader's best showings are hyperbole. And no, even with hyperbole feats, Vader is not faster than Maul, who is capable of speedblitzing Magnaguards, slams Grievous before he can react, being faster than Savage and puts up a good fight with Sidious and Mace Windu. (and yeah Sidious & Mace can speedblitz Vader)

Vader is much slower than Maul in general, because Maul doesn't have any embarrassing speed feats like Vader has.

As for hyperbole thing, it is really a stupid thing to take seriously that ''faster than thought'' thing.
First, most people didn't read that novel and only see that ''faster than thought'' part, and says ''hey look Vader is super-fast'' but they don't even know Vader failed to deflect a blaster bolt when that feat happened, writer only gave a credit to Vader before he get shot by a simple thug. Means = Hyperbole.

And if there is someone really thinks here that Vader can contend with Yoda's speed, then that person is really stupid.

Originally posted by Marco1907
But, Maul is not a half machine like Vader is. The reason Vader is slow because of his breathing apparatus and heavy armor. Maul just got new legs, he doesn't have breathing apparatus and any armor to make extra weight.

Obi-Wan also said Vader is more machine than man, you can't say the same thing about Maul.

I suppose that's true. Maul has Cybernetic legs carrying a humanoid body.

Originally posted by Marco1907
. (and yeah Sidious & Mace can speedblitz Vader)

.

I seriously doubt that. When Vader has been stated to be at least as Powerful as Dooku (overall) and 80% as Powerful as Sidious.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I seriously doubt that. When Vader has been stated to be at least as Powerful as Dooku (overall) and 80% as Powerful as Sidious.

Sidious can speedblitz him. Mace? Not without amp.

His normal speed is not above Vader's, and to whoever says that Vader's good showings are hyperbole (because it is an incontestable law of the SW universe that he MUST be slow, and anything contradicting that notion is wrong right?), I will disregard Mace's and Maul's best speed feats in the same way. You can't have it both ways, either they're all hyperbolic or they aren't.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Sidious can speedblitz him.

How can he speed blitz someone who is 80% as Powerful as him? Not happening unless he Lightning blasts him before Vader's Saber is ignited (like TFU 2's Dark side ending on Endor).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I seriously doubt that. When Vader has been stated to be at least as Powerful as Dooku (overall) and 80% as Powerful as Sidious.

Dude I told you before, that's Vader's TK and TP potential, of course Vader's TK and TP exceeds Dooku, Maul and maybe even Mace Windu's, but he has two weakness due to his injury ; breathing apparatus and heavy armor makes him slow and vulnerable to force lightning, that is why Sidious can beat Vader easier than Maul & Dooku. Sidious has two advantage ; speed & force lightning while these two are weakness to Vader.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
How can he speed blitz someone who is 80% as Powerful as him? Not happening unless he Lightning blasts him before Vader's Saber is ignited (like TFU 2's Dark side ending on Endor).

Yes, Vader is 80% of Sidious, but while he is more capable than Maul or Mace to augment his speed with the Force, his showings are not better than those of the 3 Council members Palpatine blitzed, all of whom are in his speed class. And going by your logic, he should be considerably faster than Obi-Wan because he is interminably more powerful than him even though his speed feats aren't actually better.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
How can he speed blitz someone who is 80% as Powerful as him? Not happening unless he Lightning blasts him before Vader's Saber is ignited (like TFU 2's Dark side ending on Endor).

Because 20% is a ****ing massive gap.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Because 20% is a ****ing massive gap.

Yeah that too. %20 gap is really a something, probably Dooku and Maul are very close to that % 80 as well.

Basically.

Maul and Dooku are not around that 20% mark. Sidious showed that he can handle both of them easily.

Not sure how Maul is around 80% when Sidious easily ragdolled him and Savage at the same time.

Yep and Sidious gave Dooku a sore throat from across the galaxy

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Maul and Dooku are not around that 20% mark. Sidious showed that he can handle both of them easily.

Granted I agree that Vader is considerably more powerful than Maul, and noticeably above Dooku as well, a 20% power gap is still more than enough for Palpatine to ragdoll him.

Ragdoll? no

Win solidly? Yes

Sidious couldn't ragdoll Marek, who is just a but above Vader.

Maul and Dooku are certainly in that 70-80% range.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious couldn't ragdoll Marek, who is just a but above Vader.

He didn't ragdoll him, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't. Sidious was clearly toying with him, and Marek's general feats are not better than Vader's anyways, and are actually less impressive.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Granted I agree that Vader is considerably more powerful than Maul, and noticeably above Dooku as well, a 20% power gap is still more than enough for Palpatine to ragdoll him.
I agree.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious couldn't ragdoll Marek, who is just a but above Vader.

Basing on the Dark Side ending, I believe he could.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I seriously doubt that. When Vader has been stated to be at least as Powerful as Dooku (overall) and 80% as Powerful as Sidious.

I believe, that his potential in the Force was reduced to 80% of Sidious.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Dude I told you before, that's Vader's TK and TP potential, of course Vader's TK and TP exceeds Dooku, Maul and maybe even Mace Windu's(...)

Surley, Vader is above Mace in terms of TK ad TP. Far above. It's questionable if Mace is above Maul in that department.

Originally posted by McP

I believe, that his potential in the Force was reduced to 80% of Sidious.


The quote didn't mention potential. But in any case by ROTJ Vader was like 50 years old. He should have fulfilled the vast majority of his potential. Excluding Exceptional Dark Side secrets which Sidious would never teach him anyway.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The quote didn't mention potential. But in any case by ROTJ Vader was like 50 years old. He should have fulfilled the vast majority of his potential. Excluding Exceptional Dark Side secrets which Sidious would never teach him anyway.

Well, that's also because Palpatine practically abolished the Rule Of Two and wanted to rule the Galaxy forever. Had Vader been trained by someone like Plagueis, things might have been a bit different, especially considering how the former would have learned powers like Force Drain, and the fact that Plagueis is "far too trusting" .

Well Dave Filoni says that Vader would probably kill the whole crew of the Ghost in Rebels very quickly if he encountered them.

So be on the look out for speed feats by Kanan (he's already casually dodged blaster fire). Because Rebels era Vader can likely speed blitz him from the sounds of it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vader vastly improved his saber skills after that point.

This. People seem to forget that Darth Vader grows stronger over the course of the Empire; by RotJ he is, by his own estimation, more powerful than he has ever been. He is certainly more powerful than the Vader that almost lost to Maul's clone.

That being said, I'm still pretty skeptical of Vader's ability to best Dooku. He may be more powerful in the Force, but would not stand a chance in a lightsaber duel, and it isn't always clear which advantage is going to decide the outcome of the fight.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Well, that's also because Palpatine practically abolished the Rule Of Two and wanted to rule the Galaxy forever.

That doesn't explain why Palpatine wanted Anakin as his apprentice, despite knowing and proudly acknowledging that he would far surpass him, or why he wanted Galen Marek for that matter, despite the very real possibility that his potential could far surpass Sidious's. Now if Sidious intended to just kill Vader as soon as he had grown too strong, you'd wonder what the purpose of recruiting him in the first place was.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
That being said, I'm still pretty skeptical of Vader's ability to best Dooku. He may be more powerful in the Force, but would not stand a chance in a lightsaber duel, and it isn't always clear which advantage is going to decide the outcome of the fight.
Wat?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Wat?

What, do you see the Luke Skywalker of the OT standing a chance against Tyranus? Yet he was, by Vader's own PoV, his father's equal with a blade. Remember that this Dooku is still a match for the Anakin Skywalker we see in RotS, a Skywalker whose dueling prowess Vader never seems to reach again. Various persons working on the duels of RotS label Anakin Skywalker as being in his "prime" while dueling in RotS, and following RotJ, Luke Skywalker's dueling feats are far below Anakin's for a long time thereafter.

lol

The Vaders with high difficulty.